Why are Kermit’s Pupils this Shape? Muppet Theory - Jim Henson’s Secret on Kermit The Frog

#KermitTheFrog #Muppets #JimHenson
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[@GazelleAutomations]

Totally buy this theory, Adam. It's like modelmakers kitbashing, just finding whatever's around and trying it.

[@PuppetNerd]

Right!

[@brickplank_films5189]

@@PuppetNerd I have a theory mabye he wanted the eyes to be straight then he attached them he didn’t like the look of straight lines as eyes so he added circles sin the middle

[@zechhur1fnafpoppyplaytime777]

I agree this peg hook theory too! This could be possible!

[@beautifulroses1420]

You should contact the Jim Henson historian for the company she might know.

[@PuppetNerd]

They are hard to connect with.

[@claudialove4315]

Hi my name is Claudia

[@indekscard]

@@claudialove4315 Claudia love deez nuts

[@marv685]

Ok?

[@Razgriz85]

Look up what the eyes of a glass frog look like and you'll find your answer.

[@ArtyFartyBart]

I have always assumed this to be the case, Kermit's pupils always reminded me of those tabs. Glad to hear an actual expert agree with my private thoughts

[@thepenultimateninja5797]

I definitely buy this theory. I would be willing to bet that the item that had been punched with the hole punch was a sticker of some sort, and Henson used it as a convenient self adhesive mask. For example, a lot of craft stores sell sheets of die-cut stickers that are displayed on pegs. The waste area around the stickers is adhesive paper, just like the stickers themselves. This waste area would have had these shapes punched out of them for hanging on pegs. Actually, come to think of it, larger sheets of stickers often have a pair of peg holes on the sides rather than one in the middle, so they can be hung across two pegs. Maybe Henson looked at these and saw "eyes".

[@TheRealArtDoctor]

My theory is that Kermit's eyes are actually half shut. For certain cartoon designs rather than having the eye actually blink the pupil blinks as a joke. It would make sense if his eyes are half shut since frogs sorta do that all the time

[@Froggy711]

I mean, what if he was making puppets... and he was looking for a round hole that was the right size for the eye dot. He couldn't find one with a normal round dot, and didn't want to dig out a compass or something like that... and like you said he had the packaging for the ping pong balls. The dot was the right size... but it had a line through it. So he was like, "Okay, well, maybe it's like a goat or something..." and tries it out.

[@PuppetNerd]

Why do you think he would be thinking “goat” for this character and just black dots for every other character?

[@ClockworkWyrm]

The irony being that the frog in your avatar image has very similar pupil shapes to Kermit. I really love the idea of Jim Henson using materials at hand to experiment to give OG Kermit, not a frog but a "...lizard like creature...", unusual pupils to enhance his inhumanness and provide character distinction for a pretty basic puppet design.

[@Froggy711]

Well, Jim didn't have "frog" in mind, and they look a bit like goat eyes, (at least to me) so maybe he thought he would make it a goat at some point during the creative process? Maybe he thought it would be a composite creature, or... hell I dunno. I got nothin'.

[@ninjaturtle365]

Your channel has been popping up on my feed haha so I decided to finally watch one of your videos. Today, is the second. Honestly, being a creative person myself, I can totally see this being a possibility. Sometimes, things just happen in the midst of creating something.

[@PuppetNerd]

Thanks so much!!!

[@ninjaturtle365]

@@PuppetNerd you're welcome!! I've been going down a rabbit hole of your videos since Haha

[@katei1430]

Cool theory! As soon as you mentioned walking through the store I could see exactly where you were heading :) I remember reading about Kermit's early design, which was described as being 'vaguely lizard-like' - and if you look at the eyes of say, a gecko, when the pupils contract they have that (vertical) line with pinholes. I think it's just as plausible that Jim Henson could have simplified that sort of design and then gone "Hey you know what? I think this looks better sideways." But I like your theory too, and love your vids! Greetings from Australia :)

[@jaydenmtx2168]

You know what we need we need a video on how to make puppet shoes and heels

[@joshcopeland]

The first thing I thought of were those fasteners for manila folders which has the same shape.

[@drigondii]

I always thought they looked more like goat eyes than frog eyes

[@artistpoet5253]

:D this makes a lot of sense. It may have started off like this and then the line was accentuated more to give Kermit a resting smile of the eyes to go with his grin.

[@johnylitalo4163]

That frog really meant a lot to Jim Henson.

[@factor-t7643]

A reeeealy good theory, man!! CongratS!! Almost taste Jim's creativity.

[@Goofy_ahhnimater2412]

3:34 HELLO INTERNET AND WELCOME TO MUPPET THEORY

[@pjrobot921]

Lol

[@mattb6522]

The canon reason was already explained at the end of the John Denver Muppet Show episode. Kermit says his eyes got that way due to people shining flashlight beams at him trying to catch him when he lived in the swamp. 😋

[@CinnamonGrrlErin1]

I'm a hardcore Muppet fan and this is an amazing theory! I wonder though if Jim tried a bunch of different pupil designs (and maybe somewhere theres a box full of all the unused "test eyes)

[@rocdocs]

This makes total sense!

[@hermask815]

They’re just half closed, squinted* , squinting eyes. Like when it’s too bright or like you do when you need glasses. * not cross eyed. (Second language).

[@mrs.kellymakes]

100%! This is what I always saw.

[@hptwillightfan123]

This is probably the best theory outside of “he did it because he wanted to”

[@sarojsinghshikshangatividh5983]

Very nice puppet show

[@Rhinogradentian]

It's not just one kind of frog that has odd pupils, lots of frogs and toads have odd pupils, I wouldn't rule it out.

[@PuppetNerd]

But he wasn’t a frog though. That’s the point.

[@SnarkNSass]

I think you got it. Well done!🐸✌🏻💚

[@bonnie_dearest]

I thought those pupils where what all frog eyes looked like. Guess I was wrong-

[@jennifermichelli-haskell4639]

but i have been thinking that since i was a kid..i always thought it was the reason

[@traciakierman1]

Brilliant!

[@sebastianvargas3375]

When will you make a sock puppet

[@bbrachman]

If Jim was a car enthusiast, then certain old steering wheels had the same internal shape. Two spokes and the round horn. There is a two tone green and white one that has the exact shape. Crazy, right?

[@emazfilmz]

Nice

[@PuppetNerd]

Thanks!

[@RobbieCupples]

I have asked former Muppet performer Steve Whitmire himself about whether he knows where the shape of Kermit's eyes came from... just gotta see what he says

[@crazy4reptiles528]

the series he has that mandolin

[@jakeschindler7800]

He's pupils are the Jim handsons logo

[@jakeschindler7800]

Or the Jim handsons shop

[@mangaboss1411]

There are species of frogs with those exact pupils, that's the simple answer.

[@Alijahs_Animations]

BUT HEY THATS JUST A THEOEY

[@PuppetNerd]

Glad you got the reference. @Filmtheory

[@MotivMarii2k]

His eye kinda look like a plane

[@Grimm_Book]

Bryan Henson would probably know.

[@crispincain5373]

What a stretch!

[@tubebobwil]

I bet this is correct.

[@yosefdemby8792]

Probably a combination of your theory and Hennas' theory.

[@jeffharrisTXB]

Honestly, I think it's just Mr. Henson wanting Kermit to be relaxed and calm, almost lackadaisical without being aloof. An illusion of a half-closed eye without an upper eyelid. Kind of like the effect Dr. Teeth has with his shades.

[@pamelakern3218]

I grew up in the 70s and I'm obsessed with the Muppets. I wondered about Kermit's pupils for decades. 1 day I was driving and was thinking where have I seen that shape before??? And it hit me, the hole punch on hanging products! Now, you've made this video and confirmed my theory! Thank you! ❤

[@R3troZone]

I think it's more likely Jim started with a horizontal slit for a pupil like some species of frogs have. But then thought it looked too much like he was squinting. So he added a round traditional pupil to the center and realized that worked and looked unique.

[@Jaheartsjonas]

I agree, I'm kinda upset he didn't show images of/do research on other types of frogs (of which there are TONS) besides the one recently discovered that looks JUST like Kermit. Goats also have similar pupils to this too. But yeah omitting that fact right off is confirmation bias-y lol

[@therealCrazyJake]

As stated in the video, Kermit wasn’t originally supposed to be a frog.

[@ryko1478]

​@@Jaheartsjonasbut he wasn't a frog, why would Jim based off a frog

[@neocelestia]

The peghook theory is very interesting and could very well be possible. Personally, I've always had another theory around Kermit's pupil choice. I think it's a deliberate design choice meant to influence how the audience reads Kermit's range of expressions. Kermit lacks eyelids. So any expression involving closing of the eyes or blinking is off the table. As others have pointed out, Kermit's pupils are "a circle with a line through it". If we treat this as two different shapes overlapping and look at the lines exclusively, their shape and angle mimicks closed eyes. I believe Jim Henson chose a shape that would cover and suggest both open and closed eye positions to portray a wider range of emotions for the character. It's a clever design trick meant to give visual cues to the audience and make up for the puppet's physical design limitations. This approach also gives Kermit a softer gaze and makes him look open and approachable. Just my thoughts. Great video! :)

[@PuppetNerd]

Interesting idea. I just feel like if that was the case, that he would have explored these ideas on other characters. That fact that it began and ended with Kermit makes this kind of idea less likely to me.

[@neocelestia]

@@PuppetNerd I can see where you're coming from on that line of thinking. Either way, both theories are interesting to think about. Thanks for the reply :)

[@chapterhawk]

Actually you are 100% right and Adam is 100% wrong. So pat yourself on the back.

[@PuppetNerd]

@@chapterhawk lol. No reasoning to back this up? Nice! You must talk a lot of politics. Lol.

[@neocelestia]

@@chapterhawk Given that there's no confirmed answer to Kermit's pupil shape, it's not really fair to claim that either theory is wrong or right. We can discuss what seems more likely and why, but declaring someone 100% right or wrong without a clear cut answer out there to back it up doesn't really help anything.

[@Evergreen64]

Okay. In order to really test this I would have to ask when did Jim first make Kermit? The Google says in 1955. Pegboard was first used in 1952 but I can't seem to find out when that kind of peg hook was created. But I think it was after 1955. But that's just a guess as I can't really find out the exact date.

[@4EyezConcepts]

Im glad i'm not the only one that made that connection with Kermit's pupils

[@MasterBlek]

That theory is most likely true... BUT what if there was some ping pong brand where there was something like some letters or numbers under the logo and he decided not to use white paint but to use the black paint instead and this is how the eyes got to be? Even if this sounds crazy maybe he was thinking of making the pupils even larger but then he was like "you know what... NAAH let's leave it like that". This is my theory. :D

[@PuppetNerd]

I like that idea a lot too!

[@johnszablewski]

This is such an outlandish theory that it has got to be true!

[@Kuruttra]

I too always thought kermits eyes looked like those peg hook holes. But maybe its much simpler? Maybe when Jim was making kermits puppet he only had enough material to make one pair of eyes wne when he painted the pupil on maybe he slipped with the paintbrush and had one line going straight out of the pupil? He couldnt whipe it off without messing the eye up and he also couldnt make a new eye, so he did the best he could, made the shape symetrical so it looked somewhat natural and repeated it on the otehr eye?

[@ubergamer0198]

you Suggest Occams Razor as the answer. IMO a very likely scenario

[@orchadetrm]

I thought it was just a different take on lizard-like eyes. Usually, they're vertical and Jim just decided to draw them more horizontal for appearance.

[@m.maclellan7147]

I was thinking of goats and other animals have horizontal pupils - and if you mixed that with round human pupils ?

[@Jaheartsjonas]

@@m.maclellan7147 also some types of frogs do have similar pupils to this too, in the video he just showed one example that was recently discovered.

[@trudat1498]

I’ve always thought he used one of those hang-tabs from candy packages too. Edit: Great minds think alike.

[@galogiha]

considering the first Kermit was made from assorted crap, it might be true. ping pong balls, couch foam, mama's coat and punch holes. See, it kinda makes sense.

[@tlac4120]

Sounds believable. Please ask Brian Henson about it.

[@PuppetNerd]

We would love to have him on the podcast!

[@iainthomas5249]

Well Adam, you’ve done it. One of life’s great mysteries solved. And it sounds like Kermit himself is telling the story.

[@spotmikestudios1020]

I always loved how the his pupils looked, I thought they were very unique when I was a little kid. I even had a plushy version of Kermit that I would take with me everywhere I went.

[@franknberry333]

Me too! Mine is over 40 years old and he's still on my bed.

[@wendym1234]

It reminds me of how people ‘smile’ with their eyes. Most somewhat close their eyes when they smile. As he’s the host in most shows, he needs to appear smiling, even if his mouth just stays open. So I think that’s the case.

[@mlledupont]

Out of all the other theories going around, this seems super logical. Especially being a creator myself, I also like to keep interesting shaped parts of packaging to use for projects. Of course we can’t know if it’s right, but it’s such a simple explanation, it just makes sense! I’m totally on board with this.

[@PuppetNerd]

Right! It’s the maker lifestyle!

[@mlledupont]

Exactly! Maker *cough* hoarder *cough* 😅

[@nickw.8109]

This is actually a good theory! I always looked at the peg hole shape on packaging and am reminded of Kermit's pupils. I do have an alternate idea as to why this is, though. I thought I've read somewhere that Kemit's pupils we're supposed to suggest transparent eyelids. I could be wrong, and the fact that the line doesn't wrap around the whole eye could debunk this idea.

[@PuppetNerd]

Interesting.

[@DougPalumbo]

Best working theory I’ve ever heard on this! Theory works for me!

[@mygeekfamilycotton]

It actually makes a lot of sense! Are there other examples of puppets (maybe from the Sam & Friends era) where the pupils were drawn from something else?

[@PuppetNerd]

The rest are round pupils.

[@mygeekfamilycotton]

@@PuppetNerd right, but do we know if he was using a template to trace them? (Love your shows, btw, I am currently making a Kermit replica!)

[@tophatbill77]

Adam I think you need to cut the ping pong balks in half like Kermit eyes and try it again to see if you get the exact shape- use plastic this time. I think you are 100% right. There is no other shape I can think of like that.

[@jeffcummins8639]

I have always had this theory since childhood. I didn't know they were painted, so I thought it was the cardboard glued to the ping pong balls. The Muppets were my childhood. It was the first TV show I was allowed to stay up to watch.

[@Legendary3Dgamer]

Am I the only one that thinks that this guy sounds like Kermit the frog despite him doing a video about him 🤣

[@TheFirstAtom]

Thought that as soon as he started talking.

[@Eddeh]

Insane theory! Realistic too!

[@donaldheisler4322]

Awesome theory! See if you could ask Frank Oz or Dave Goelz. They might know.

[@MrMorenado]

I don't know if you've talked about it in some video, (there are many) but how do you make that little corner of the mouth a little chubby?

[@thetoppets]

That's a very good theory. You should definitely do more of these I really enjoyed it😊

[@JustaRegularYoutubeChannel]

Now that’s something I could believe. It makes so much sense!

[@ScottBalkum]

If you look up brass brad or brass fastener. This is the defacto standard for keeping screenplays together and have been around since 1866… It also happens to be the shape of his eyes when folded out… :)

[@PuppetNerd]

I like that idea too!

[@SuperFelixFnaf]

Can you guys maybe make me 4 puppets??? And I could send you guys the pictures of all of them

[@Noddzie]

I think seeing Kermit wasn't originally a frog suggests newt or salamander :) have a look at some salamander or newt eyes and they have very similar eyes as kermit :) horizontal, have a look at a red bellied or red spotted newt thats where eyes come in and thats my guess :)

[@backuppixiedust1115]

Toads also often have that horizontal-slit-eye-shape, which supports the generic-amphibian design idea

[@PuppetNerd]

Yeah. But he wasn’t intended to be a frog or amphibian though.

[@ILLUSIONOtwo]

Can you make a hamburger puppet

[@SporkNotFork]

Ik this is late but if I were to have a theory it would be that, instead of using two ping pong balls, Jim wanted/had to use two halves of one. Considering most ping pong balls have a logo on them, it’s entirely possible that he just strategically cut them so that the pupil on one of the eyes covered that logo. Maybe it was just a horizontal line that he covered up, but decided it looked a little weird and so added the more traditional pupil on top of that. Or maybe the logo had a circle in it as well and that’s just the shape it became on its own ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@XD.73-849]

My family always does that with theories A THEORY!

[@Xman806]

I don’t think this theory is true but hey it’s just a theory a puppet theory

[@reinaldothecringemaster3728]

Hello I have Subscribe to your KZbin channel

[@floofydoofy]

I just realized there’s a matpat reference

[@nothingelegant1233]

I am so glad I found your channel today, really cheered me up 😁

[@ChrisB...]

The shape makes Kermit's profile view much more aesthetically pleasing because you can see more pupil. My guess is Jim was viewing his creation from all angles and discovered exactly that.

[@PuppetNerd]

But why not for any other of the hundreds of puppets?

[@ChrisB...]

@@PuppetNerd Because the others have eyes that are set into the front of the head, Kermit's eyes are on top of his head with no brows or eyelids. The audience needs to see more pupil from the side to avoid seeing a green sock with pure white ping pong balls on top. A large round pupil might have worked too (see Cookie Monster), I bet Jim tried it.

[@PuppetNerd]

@@ChrisB... There are many other characters that have the eyes in the similar or same placement as Kermit. Even as far back as Sam and Friends. This doesn’t seem like a reason that holds up.

[@crazy4reptiles528]

please make a video of how kermita the frog is made please!

[@spcglider]

A little research could determine whether or not the style of peg hook you're looking at was even existing at the time that Jim made the first Kermit.

[@PuppetNerd]

Lol. I did Gordon.

[@rgraham9792]

I don’t think they had butterfly peg hooks when Kermit was invented, has anyone done a patent search?

[@PuppetNerd]

The hole is separate from the butterfly peg hook. The hole punch precedes the peg hook.

[@WindowshadeCure]

I just thought of something - if Jim really did like cars, then maybe he designed Kermit's eyes to look like Chevy emblems. That's just something I thought up on a whim though, the idea that he used that shape because it gave him a unique expression probably does make more sense.

[@sarina76667]

As a creative person myself, I know I’ve done exactly the same thing. It’s the perfect size to fit over a ping pong ball; it’s a unique shape that lies in the valley between “I recognize this” and easy to overlook; it ensures both pupils are identical so the character isn’t lopsided… I don’t know how many times I’ve gone through the same mental process for something I’ve made out of office supplies. I get fidgety at work and start making things out of cardboard and packaging tape until I get in trouble for turning my cubicle into a castle with turrets and poseable dragons. Tracing a shape like that is exactly what I would do too for the sake of symmetry.

[@grantbitman1448]

No one's going to bring up goat's eyes?

[@ChrisParlamas]

This is a great theory.

[@PuppetNerd]

Thanks so much!

[@musoandafan965]

It may have been to cover the branding

[@andrewlankes]

I think you nailed it. You could find a scale reference and match to his original puppet eyes, match to known vintage ping pong ball packaging.

[@SnoDub]

Brian Henson would be a great person to ask this question. #PuppetsLivesMatter

[@dissonantdissident9113]

I've thought the same for years but always figured kermit predated this type of packaging. Kudos to you for doing the homework.

[@dragonskunkstudio7582]

Consider that Kermit is one of the few muppet characters where the eyes stick out of its body without any eyelids or eyebrows. So how do you make such a character more expressive? If you take away the eye slashes and just have dots, Kermit's eyes would be giving a vague expression. Vague is untrustworthy, suspicious, this is not what you want in your favorite character. Rotate those slashes 180 degrees and now Kermit looks evil. By default Kermit looks friendly because of the slashes.

[@DTChannelStudio93]

This is a wonderful theroy about Kermit's eye pupils here. Also, this "might" be a theory but, it's more of a wild guess. I think that when Jim Henson first build Kermit in 1954 with using his coat as a the base for his body, legs arms, hands and head. Next, he cut the one ping-pong ball in half and before he glue the two half of the ping-pong onto Kermit's head....I think that Jim might of use a marker to draw a dot and drew a cruve right through the dot in a arch kinda way. Again, I just taking a wild guess at it but, I think that's my theory on it. Other than, this is a really an awesome video and I can't wait to see more of puppet realted stuff on here. Keep up the great work! :)

[@johnrowley5833]

With me, it wasn’t so much HOW he came to have those pupils, but WHY! I always thought that they gave Kermit that bulgy-eyed frog look even regardless of the fact he had this look long before he became a frog! Still, this was interesting, though, as I said, I never gave much thought much about how that shape of his pupils came to look that way!

[@ChillyNFL]

Make a how to make a bear puppet

[@samkuklaTVLandProductions]

I went to the Jim Henson Museum in Ann Arbor with my Dad last week as I definitely saw Kermit✌️👋👍

[@GabeTubeChannelOne]

There is that statement Kermit made (on the Muppet Show) that his eyes got like that because of people shining flashlights in his eyes in the swamp. : -)

[@jeffcummins6548]

Honestly, I have always made the connection between his eyes and the cardboard pieces left over from the action figures peg holes. With you 100%!

[@TheRogueDM]

I just assumed from a very young age that putting actual glasses/sunglasses on Kermit would be impractical, so they were painted on. And then when I got older I thought it was a way to make Kermit look more endearing, a bit like the ^_^ expression you get in a lot of anime.

[@Jaheartsjonas]

It's odd how only one type of frog that was really recently discovered is considered for this theory when there's actually lots of types of frogs that have been known about for ages that might not look exactly like Kermit like the "new" one but have these kinds of eye shapes that Jim could've easily gotten inspiration from. My only gripe about a otherwise super well produced video

[@ILoveVideoGames2004]

Adam's Kind Of Doing The Same Of Film Theory But Mehh.. But Really Sorry MatPat Its Ok This Theory Is Good With Matpat's Theories.

[@pommorinspuppetsandprops6593]

We will probably never be sure, but your theory is so damn convincing that I can't really think of any other plausible explanation. Chapeau and congratulations.