Self-Driving Cars Will Only Make Traffic Worse

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Self-driving cars will fix traffic without any effort or result.
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[@AdamSomething]

Thanks for Atlas VPN for sponsoring today's video! Get your 3-year subscription deal for 82% off with one month free using the link: atlasv.pn/ADAM

[@mr.jitterspam9552]

Blocking all the first comments by BEING first bahaha

[@kullingen6909]

Protect your internet with this easy trick. Give us your money and we give you a half truth bandaid solution.

[@peterbelanger4094]

So, your solution is to get rid of cars and collectivise everything? Um....... no. And you can't make everyone go along with that.

[@post-leftluddite]

The way you describe the appeal of self-driving cars as a quick-fix, bandaid solution that allows people to continue their unhealthy lifestyle is EXACTLY how 99% of people view technology with respect to the environmental crisis. 99% of people walk around with a near religious-like faith in the belief that technology will miraculously solve the environmental crisis and will do so without having to make any sacrifice or having to examine the underlying, incorrect assumptions of the myth of linear progress and civilization as a whole....and what's most incredible is that people have this unshakable faith in technology being able to solve the environmental crisis without ever having seen any tangible, empirical evidence to suggest a technological solution is even possible. Even worse is that they completely ignore the fact that technology and the industrial order inherently required to create and maintain it is largely responsible for the environmental crisis in the first place. This religious faith on technology has permeated societal thinking to the point where it's a more socially acceptable idea to propose, for example, seeding the upper atmosphere with chemicals to block out sunlight and geoengineering than it is to simply reduce global consumption.

[@felixe5816]

Self driving is a scam, but this VPN will protect your privacy 🙃

[@artheus5069]

Today on "Just build public transport instead of bullshit, we beg you", Adam talks about how adding more cars to a problem where cars are the main issue won't, in fact, solve the issue

[@linkinlinkinlinkin654]

What Adam doesn't understand is that public transportation doesn't exactly solve private transportation. When my public transportation becomes as good as my private transportation it's way more inefficient. Efficiency=dependency

[@Demopans5990]

@@linkinlinkinlinkin654 Just buy one of those Chinese electric mopeds. Perfect for urban roads, and no one would steal one due to them looking like cheap Chinese plastic junk

[@Unregistered.Hypercam.2.]

"when my public transportation becomes as good as my private transportation it's way more innefcient" what?

[@EatMyShortsAU]

I don't think public transport would really help the US that much. Their cities, infrastructure, lifestyles, businesses are all built and designed around the car. Hopefully, developing countries won't fall in the same trap(although I think rich OPEC countries do and countries without oil don't really have the option).

[@Unregistered.Hypercam.2.]

@@linkinlinkinlinkin654 bro ,seriously what is this ''Efficiency=dependency''

[@osasunaitor]

5:10 Train driver here, I'm sorry but this is not a valid point. A railway track needs as much maintenance as a road, probably even more if we talk about lines with heavy traffic (freight trains) and/or high speed traffic. Electrified lines only make this worse because the overhead wires are particularly complex to maintain. On the mainlines where I drive my trains, there are maintenance shifts scheduled *every night* on different parts of the infrastructure. This being said, I do agree that trains are a better long-term solution than cars for general transportation issues. But please lets not assume incorrect stuff.

[@Nick_noz1]

That was some nice info, thank you for the insight

[@dingdongs5208]

Most of these arm chair civil planners on KZbin actually have no idea what they're talking about, I am a supporter of public transport and cycling myself but God damn some people just talk out of their asses

[@billyswong]

I wish there are unbiased research on road and rail maintenance cost analysis that compare them per kg of cargo or per number of passenger. But most analysis will probably be sponsored or lobbied by one side or another.

[@iamjimgroth]

@@billyswong Check some European studies.

[@hhiippiittyy]

The highways in my area are completely resurfaced every few years. The rail lines are maintained more often and rigorously, but otherwise last much, much longer. It might be like comparing getting a new engine for your car every 60k km vs doing oil changes every 5k. Until that 60k mark hits, the new engine method seems much cheaper. Not to be contentious, but the facts you offer don't give enough to work out a proper cost comparison. I looked for studies on Google but could only find comparisons for new construction, and definitely nothing that compared quantity of cargo over time comparisons. And still, direct cost vs general economic cost is even more difficult. Traffic jams cost the general economy a fortune in lost productivity, for example. Adding environmental externalities cost... ugh.... so complicated. Again, to be clear, not trying to be contentious here.

[@fourminutemadness4454]

The fact that the vehicle assist wanted so badly to be a train is most telling.

[@ellusivegman]

otherkar

[@murraymadness4674]

lol beauty

[@l0v3MyB3ar]

That AI has obviously been watching Adam's videos, where all transport always ends up becoming trains.

[@noobartz0890]

the point when AI becomes smarter than humans

[@therealspeedwagon1451]

@@noobartz0890 the singularity is coming

[@haydenlee8332]

I never get tired of sharing this Biology: “everything eventually evolves into crabs” Transportation: “everything eventually evolves into trains”

[@nicklockard]

Next level: crab trains?

[@alejandroe3616]

@@nicklockard that’s just lobsters

[@matthewcron8842]

@@alejandroe3616 Good to know that lobsters are the absolute pinnacle of evolution after crabs.

[@mekingtiger9095]

So we are all becoming crabs in a distant future? AWESOME! Crab rave when?

[@baconlord2545]

@@mekingtiger9095 5921 see you at the rave

[@DarkyLonewolf]

And here we are, on another episode of "JUST BUILD A FUCKING TRAIN".

[@bighmm6301]

And I love it!

[@ErdTirdMans]

BUILD. MORE. TRAINS. *cue vaporwave riffs*

[@spaghettiisyummy.3623]

Or an Underground Metro.

[@brokeTM]

Also, trams and metros. Better urban planning to reduce distances, better and more public transit preferably electrified rail or overhead lines for longer trips in cities, trains for long distances between cities/hubs, and satellite offices near or in residential zones so heating and lighting costs can be shared aka "work from close-to-home".

[@janjordy]

@@brokeTM not everyone lives in the cities, i live in small mountainus country where roads are hard to build let alone train tracks... so selfdriving cars in regions like mine would be awsome.

[@Jobe-13]

I heard that Elon Musk wants to make cars’ Bluetooth systems a way for drivers to talk to each other on the road. Imagine how road rage incidents would be with that.

[@pogchamp2973]

Cod lobby

[@longlivedemocracy10123]

@@pogchamp2973 yes

[@longlivedemocracy10123]

@@pogchamp2973 im lobbying your mom

[@malakimphoros2164]

Fucking radio already made this a reality

[@thenarstar]

Top Gear covered something like this, but it was a means of dating service!

[@ConfalGaming]

I've tried many times to talk to my city council. Long story short. My mayor called me a nobody and a complainer. A week before a child almost died on a badly designed "stroad"

[@user-df4zw7yb4v]

thats incredibly disrespectful for the mayor of a whole city

[@mrlaz9011]

Hope that shitbag gets run over one day.

[@GFHGGDJHJHJ]

I'm gonna guess this will be that mayor's FINAL term?

[@user-pr6ed3ri2k]

88th,8th

[@PhoenixAngel429]

Let me guess he's a boomer and we won't get good public transit till those under 50 get in control

[@slanner1894]

When Canadian public transit is shown as a working example of public transit, you know America is messed up

[@manspaghetti6351]

Us Canadian's love to brag about how we're so much better than america in terms of public infrastructure and whatnot, (and to an extent we are) but compared to european cities, we're basically just as bad. VIA rail is a joke, GO transit is an even bigger joke, the TTC subway is down half the time, etc.

[@staycgirlsitsgoingdown2]

i mean… some cities have usable transit systems, Montreal and Toronto have systems that compared to European cities arnt incredible but are still pretty useful. The Montreal metro is pretty great, I’ve taken trips to Montreal to see family and Ive been able to get to most places downtown and even in a few suburbs only on public transit. Last time I was there, I think I drove somewhere twice and those 2 trips were going to and from a country house 3 hours away downtown in the middle of nowhere

[@slanner1894]

@@staycgirlsitsgoingdown2 yes I live in Montreal, and taking public transit is usually much better than driving where you'll get stuck in construction downtown during the summer, and snow during the winter. I just find it shocking that American transit is so bad that you basically have to drive to go anywhere.

[@Hoopsnake]

@@staycgirlsitsgoingdown2 Montreal transit is good, but Toronto transit is a joke for how big the city actually is. It's like a small city's transit system trying to service a large and notoriously sprawling city. And the subway doesn't even fully operate most weekends.

[@emcee_spokesman]

"You know America is messed up" nuff said

[@LordSandwichII]

2:38 It doesn't even do that! It's not just useless, it's WORSE THAN USELESS. Any driver assistance feature that requires you to take control at a moments notice effectively increases you workload because you have to constantly watch what's happening around you, and decide the correct course of action should be, and then decide if the car's automated systems are reacting appropriately. It's not like being a passenger, but more like supervising a learner driver.

[@lanceash]

The WHOLE POINT of a "self-driving car" is that it would allow you to take a nap! If you can't do that, then why is this even a thing?

[@markthomas7279]

no one is forcing you.carry on carrying on. leave it to those who are happy to do so.

[@markthomas7279]

​@@lanceash because many people find it useful. no one is forcing you.

[@lanceash]

@@markthomas7279 Thanks, pal.

[@floridaman318]

Omg and being a passenger with a learning driver is awful lol

[@uncinarynin]

1.2 people per car? With self-driving cars the number can be lowered further and we can have more cars than people in traffic, hooray ... Because one of the promises is "No more searching for parking spaces, your car will search them on its own". So self-driving cars can create more traffic on their own looking for a space to park or just slowly crawling around the block because the traffic jam doesn't allow anything else. Also by going the way with least traffic, if this is done by a larger group of cars, soon we'll have dense traffic jams everywhere and there will be no more low-traffic routing. The actual solution, as mentioned, will be to reorganize things so that it's not needed to even own a car for most people. That however is quite difficult when the car industry is lobbying so heavily for selling more cars. They don't care what people do with them, if they drive, if they park, if they get stuck in traffic: People must buy them in the first place and an environment where it's impossible to survive without your own car seems to be ideal for selling more.

[@fz8188]

So guät bro

[@birubu]

Self driving cars come out and the average number of people per car goes down to 0.9

[@WellCookedPotatoes]

@@birubu 0.9? It would easily drop to 0.6 just from people sending their cars places for no reason and for things like having stores load items directly into the car like some grocery stores already do

[@SaveMoneySavethePlanet]

If we can make it so that traffic is everywhere then people won’t know what a traffic free life is like, and they’ll stop complaining about being stuck in traffic! Guys! I solved it!

[@giacomo7701]

@@SaveMoneySavethePlanet this is master chess level plan

[@56independent42]

London has an amazing way of implementing this. They use tunnels and technology. The cars don't need to swerve, so they are limited to steel rails. This improves efficency. They have centralised areas where people can get on and off these cars, so they can walk to their destination from these areas. The cars are very long and multiple of them are put together, so only one person is needed to monitor the car going through the tunnel, and a few hundred passengers can sit down, being self-driven. It's called the "metropolitan line downtown segment".

[@markthomas7279]

it's true. there are also black taxis and buses though.

[@mittfh]

You've also got downtown segments of "roads" called Bakerloo, Central, Circle, District, Hammersmith & City, Jubilee, Northern, Piccadilly and Victoria (should the W&C count?) - a couple of larger "roads" with tunnelled sections called Thameslink and Elizabeth, plus a network of surface-level "roads" called Overground, and a separate network with self-driving "cars" called the DLR.

[@TheLinkoln18]

Limited to black cabs when I need transport home at 0100 hours.

[@56independent42]

@@TheLinkoln18 You have the night tube, a reduced network, for that.

[@56independent42]

@@mittfh Ah yes, the DLR. I always love to pretend i'm driving it.

[@petersmybro]

To be honest, in that driving clip at 3:30, I probably would have missed the black colored truck against that black nighttime background. Tesla removing the front radar sensor removes one of the few things it could have done better than humans, such as, see in the dark.

[@tamius-han]

Was about to check and see if anyone brought that up. That car was flat out invisible until a second before the impact.

[@WhiteSupreme]

That was a pretty grainy clip. Would have been more visible in person.

[@WhiteSupreme]

@AmateurThespian Spoken like someone who has never left the city nor has any understanding of how the world works.

[@veagle1379]

@@WhiteSupreme car bad, train good, doesn't matter where or when

[@WhiteSupreme]

@@veagle1379 Okay 12-year-old stay in your city.

[@BrandonConrady]

I have an idea that will make this concept work: You have devoted lanes specifically for these vehicles. Next, you make the vehicles bigger. Then, you combine multiple of them and make the cabins able to hold more people. I call it a "train".

[@winterwatson6811]

lol this is basically how i respond whenever a carbrain tries to tell me about self driving cars

[@ThePabloRenato1980]

The idea itself isn't bad I admit but the name? Come on, it's not catchy enough... I would call it simply: MEGACAR!

[@MrMoustachioo]

that is a bus not a train?

[@Wampa842]

Call them "resource-pooling traction multipods" and you'll confuse carbrains into supporting it.

[@dreku8743]

@@MrMoustachioo not all Countries have lanes just for the bus

[@petersmythe6462]

"Most environmentally unfriendly, cost inefficient way of transporting people." Well, I'm fairly sure helicopters are worse. Of course, the truly brilliant idea is flying cars. What if we take helicopters and make them louder and less efficient.

[@MsZsc]

but science.

[@TomGalonska]

But think of all the lanes you can add in the air. This will fix it, for sure!

[@needn5796]

b l i m p s

[@rowbot5555]

@@needn5796 blimps are actually pretty fuel efficient once they're filled the first time!

[@L1nkk9E]

Well, at least the streets can be used by pedestrians again. Or wait only the rich can fly and for the rest it stays the same?

[@sharkknight9564]

The main difference between fit in 30 days app and self driving cars is that the app will slightly improve your lifestyle.

[@leonpaelinck]

Except that people might start to double down on their bad habits while using the app

[@realdragon]

Any exercise is better than no exercise And that statement might be wrong because with not right exercises you're increasing the risk of injury.And it might not b some light injury that goes away after a week

[@FY--my5gg]

I love that phrase: "Reduces your workload as a driver"... like you have to shovel coal and adjusting valves while driving

[@lDrFuManchul]

If the workload of driving a car is too demanding… maybe selling the car is an option lol

[@FY--my5gg]

@@lDrFuManchul True loo

[@leonpaelinck]

He's got a point though. Why are so many people okay with working an additional 2 hours upaid?

[@AtomicAlchemist]

@@leonpaelinck >Why are so many people okay with working an additional 2 hours upaid? Its not like they have any alternative (other than work from home i guess), almost no company pays you for your commute time since why would they, youre not doing any productive work during that time

[@ArchmageIlmryn]

Only way self-driving technology could solve traffic is by making bus networks cheaper to run and more efficient.

[@tbyte007]

The bus don't go everywhere. And I had to switch 4 fucking buses when I was student just to get to the University. So he can get those buses and ... well

[@user-wv1in4pz2w]

@@tbyte007 that's precisely the problem. When a city has good public transit, you need a single bus, or at worse a single switch 95% of the time, unless you are going to another city, in which case you take a bus to the train station, ride the train for a few hours, and then take a bus to your actual destination.

[@pygmalion8952]

@@tbyte007 it is just your city's public transit sucks. but for "not going everywhere" i would like to have a car sharing coop in the city. this costs you much less than owning a car btw. plus traffic is lowered. with good public transit, it is virually non existent.

[@InventorZahran]

If you want buses to be more efficient, then why not give them grade-separated roadways to bypass traffic jams? And while you're at it, make the curves in those roads wider so the bus can turn more easily? This would also enable the use of longer buses, which are more efficient. But why stop at longer buses when you can string multiple of them together to form a "super-bus"? Since they're all self-driving, steering could be synchronized. Or you could simplify the system by using a guide rail to keep the buses in line. Or better yet, replace the rubber tires with flanged wheels running on two rails, and get rid of the guide rail AND road surface entirely. Oh wait- in my attempt to theorize a more efficient bus, I inadvertently evolved it into a train!

[@TheError101]

@@user-wv1in4pz2w actually in my experience it is the waiting inbetween switching that can take a lot of time. If busses have schedules that fit the switches or busses go every 10 minutes. It can make up for a lot. Also dedicated buslanes and priority at traffic lights helps a lot.

[@Sakhmeth]

Don't forget that smart self driving cars can be told to "drive around the block" while you run inside to do shopping where there is no easy/free parking available, adding even more traffic.

[@cautemoc4624]

Yeah this edge case is very important point compared to the massive reduction in car crashes that actually cause massive traffic jams.

[@clydecraft5642]

@@cautemoc4624 its really not an edge case if its a feature it will be used, are you trying to debate or smash the “traffic jam lovers” into the ground?

[@onbox6276]

@@clydecraft5642 Yeah, it is an edge case. Search up how prevalent it is in vehicles, and you'll see.

[@RosesAndIvy]

​@@cautemoc4624 Or you could just make infrastructure safer so there are less car crashes? Seriously though, the US has 4x the amount of fatal car crashes that my country does, per capita, and double the amount per vehicle. Even though my country is one of the most densely populated in the world. So safer infrastructure would help much more than self driving cars if car crashes are your main concern.

[@shieldgenerator7]

imagine not being able to go to the grocery store because of the carousel of self driving cars surrounding it

[@noahsaunders3919]

I'm honsetly Surprised how shockingly accurate Adam was here. Only just one month after this video was published Ford and Volkswagen have a matter of fact rececntly shutdown their Argo AI autonomous driving tech company due to it failing to attract new investors and that Ford and Volkswagen executives don't expect fully autonomous vehicles to be profitable any time soon ethier. So they've decided to drop out of the development of L4 - L5 autonomous vehicles entirely and instead focus on L2 - L3 driver assistance systems.

[@bobbyshaw3420]

Focusing on level 2 and 3 makes soo much more sense

[@noahsaunders3919]

It absolutely does! In fact not long after Ford & Volkswagen shutdown Argo AI, Mercedes Benz had also quit on developing in their words: "robotaxi's" and decided to just go down to Level 2 & Level 3 as well.

[@bobbyshaw3420]

@@noahsaunders3919 interesting as I knew about ford and VW but not about Mercedes. Cheers for the information,I will have a read into Mercedes now

[@noahsaunders3919]

@@bobbyshaw3420 No problem! You'll mostly find some of that info on news forums like Car Buzz or the Verg. Cheers!

[@nextleveljourney6612]

Infrastructure has to support SD cars - which would mean retrofitting intersections and also road margins w components that could be detected by SD cars Artificial Intelligence tech INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE, Time Consuming, And YET TO BE DEVELOPED ✨ SHRUG 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@joshjensen727]

I just want to say that your videos have had a direct influence on me spending hundreds of dollars. They have helped me make the decision to bicycle more, and drive less. I bought a $25 bicycle from the neighbor, and many times that amount in bicycle accessories to make the commute safer and more comfortable. I can't fix traffic all on my own, but i can make it suck less. Also, biking to work will help me lose some unwanted pounds, and (eventually) keep more dollars in the bank. Much better than the apps and videos you mention in the beginning. Keep up the good work!

[@Burrple_]

car enthusiasts who love driving their cars themselves and people who hate the car centric cities after watching this video: 🤝

[@nlpnt]

There's more overlap than you'd think in that Venn diagram, too.

[@rtg3333]

@@nlpnt I'm one of them. I love the ability to go anywhere that a car provides compared to even the best public transit, but I still wish I could just take a train into work everyday and walk to get groceries or go to a park

[@kornkernel2232]

True, well less congested roads means haven for car enthusiasts and safer to drive with their beloved cars. Since there is less idiots on the road. Most people drive because they have to not because they love to. Car enthusiasts love tk drive and love their cars and even tinkering them. Having great public transport is actually great since they can have cars that may not be efficient for daily commute but great for weekend road trip or even for racing.

[@ricequackers]

Oh yes definitely. Driving when you want is fun, but *having* to drive because there's no other option isn't, and sitting in traffic is the least fun of all.

[@shraka]

I own a sports car, but as traffic has gotten worse I just drive it less and less. I HATE driving in traffic, and even empty freeways are boring. The last 5 places I've lived I've ensured I was within 10 minutes walk to shops and PT.

[@awildbanana3357]

I just got hired on as a bus driver for a large city in the USA. A few people asked me, “why did you take the job when self driving cars will take your job?” I tell them it is going to be a long time till self driving ever becomes a thing. Especially on buses due how different they drive compared to cars. This just proves my point even more. Thanks :)

[@inund8]

Playing devils advocate: since buses drive more or less the same route day after day, it could be easier to get self driving buses.

[@awildbanana3357]

@@inund8 You have a good point, but I still think it would be harder. There are so many things that can happen on a fixed route. You have goobers cutting us off, people stepping out in front of the bus, dozens of cars around you, and tight maneuvers. There are just so many variables that I think it will take a long time to implement on a bus.

[@liamhodgson]

Bus chad

[@TalesOfWar]

@@inund8 Fully automated metro systems are hard enough. And they exist entirely on a self contained separated track.

[@MikaelKKarlsson]

As someone who rides on a bus every day I'd like to say thank you. I hope your job works out well for you.

[@Crosshill]

im just lowkey reminded of how i felt when i realized how much ~space~ you needed for junctions and roads in cities skylines if you couldnt be bothered to manage your intersections or figure out bus routes or add pedestrian paths

[@dbclass4075]

Imagine if pocket cars didn't exist, thus requiring parking spaces.

[@dukenukem5768]

This doesn't mention that people will drive to work in a SD car and then send it empty back home because work has no parking spaces, or it costs money to park while an EV costs practically nothing per mile (in the UK anyway). At end of day, reverse the procedure. They previously used public transport.

[@Assassin5671000]

Problem is when everyone goes EV the price of electricity goes up so will you mileage . The only reason that it is low now it's because not a lot of people have EV .

[@thecrusade_er]

My city has recently paved over the central road going through it, turning most of it into a wide plaza for the people to walk on and enjoy, with benches, shaded areas and all. Wow this pissed a lot of people (including my parents) off, because they thought the city would get even more congested, and why even do it if people don't walk. Well, it's been a nice vacation time with this brand new road, and despite a heavy initial increase in traffic on the other roads, guess what happened in (supposedly very traffic-heavy) July and September? No major traffic jams, and people actually using the new plaza a lot. I was telling them this was a good change, but people always fear good change that forces them to lead a slightly more active life. Cheers from Poland aswell, i love your videos! They were really eye-opening to me as a person who was both a leftist and a car nut. I still love cars, but Forza is more than enough for me

[@rileynicholson2322]

"People never go downtown anymore because it's just too busy." To a certain extent, traffic congestion is a really good indicator, it means so many people want to go to a place that there must be something good about it. It's like how good neighborhoods tend to be expensive. Then you just have to remember that cars are the least efficient method of transporting people and will get congested far before a decent network for walking, cycling, or public transit. The solution to traffic is to switch to more efficient modes of transport so more people can enjoy the destination.

[@ummmbye1228]

I’m glad my town already is walkable

[@stylesrj]

@@rileynicholson2322 *"People never go downtown anymore because it's just too busy."* "No one drives in New York! There's too much traffic!" - Philip J. Fry

[@Midaspl]

Well... Knowing how 'revitalisations' in Poland look like, I'd guess there was a valid point to be against it, as usually they take a place with a lot of grass, trees etc. and just cover everything in concrete instead.

[@liesdamnlies3372]

Convincing Europeans that they should have walkable cities always seems like a much easier sell to me than North Americans. :< Vancouver is slowly (painfully) realizing that the best ways to fix traffic is to make the city walkable with more green spaces and transit, and far fewer big-ass roads, but...sometimes it's like pulling teeth. The drivers here will fight bike infrastructure tooth-and-nail; it seems nigh impossible to convince them that getting cars off the road (because people bike or walk) will mean their drives are more pleasant too.

[@vizualedit0r481]

I've heard about an invention that uses the concept of self-driving cars, but on a massive scale. They're called trains.

[@cautemoc4624]

Oh well in that case we should just scrap this technology that results in far safer driving standards for everyone. I mean it won't solve a problem that it was never built to solve so I guess it's nothing.

[@andy-the-gardener]

even trains are stupid under end game neoliberalism. i give you hs2

[@miroslavhoudek7085]

Sounds nice, when will this concept of "trains" work? I took a train three times last year, everytime it was approx. 2 times longer trip on paper than it would have been by car. And why I say on paper, I mean that there were delays that caused me missing a connection, which made the trip up to 5 times as long as by car. I love trains but as of now they are as useless as self-driving cars.

[@AliothAncalagon]

Trains aren't self-driving. And in many cases its even impossible for any foreseeable AI to learn how to properly drive it.

[@user-cx9nc4pj8w]

@@miroslavhoudek7085 Where do you live may I ask? Because "trains" are different everywhere and some places do them MUCH better than others. I've caught the train twice a day for 4 years now, and there are occasional delays, but overall it is consistent service that runs on time. It does take longer than driving, but driving where I need to go would be very inconvenient, especially when I can actually do stuff on a train, unlike in a car. tldr: you CAN do trains right, you just haven't.

[@TheJuice9]

One thing I haven’t seen addressed about the American car issue; How do we change the American mindset on the security cars provide. The US is arguably not the most violent place in the world despite what the news says but people cling to the small safety that cars provide. A literal barrier between you and possible dangers. There’s also a social stigma that only poor people have to use public transit. Not saying these things are true but I think are key to get people to really want to change car culture.

[@David-cj8wv]

Take the traffic cops and make them protect public transportation instead?

[@franekdzbanek9592]

@@David-cj8wv Protect how? he will sit next to me? I think The Juice think more about feeling safe in your own car. You can travel in first class for VIP in plane or train but still you will feel much safer in car - even it only a ilusion

[@tungdil3221]

This right here I don't use public transportation for 2 reasons 1 its slower in my city than just using a personal car with a bad schedule for anyone with a job. and 2 poor conduct by other passengers. Have you ever been on a bus that smells like stale piss in an American inner city? or witnessed the knock out game on Chicago trains?

[@BeachLookingGuy]

As an experienced American i can confirm there isnt really a "mindset of security" when it comes to the issue at hand with cars. just look at places with mass transit and you will see plenty of people using it. the problem is suburbs. a single family house in the suburbs takes up a lot of space and is often miles away from stores and work. there is no other transportation between these places so you have no choice but to drive a personal vehicle. you might find a bus, but it will likely add up to an hour of time to your trip. the suburbs i use to live in Florida had a bus line and the bus would show up once every 60 minutes, the bus stop was on the very edge of the suburb which was a 10-15 minute bike ride. counties are built this way and therefore creates this culture. A lot of people have wayy too much money and they are much more comfortable with buying homes built in gated communities that are minimum 15 minute drive to the nearest department store. every family member of the house gets their own personal car that seats up to 5 yet 98% of the time it carries just 1. Lot's of people simply cant just find a home close to work for whatever reasons and often live 30-45 min drive away from work. they have money that can afford this life style and it's very easy and comfortable for them, PLUS this is just how the infrastructure is made with so many living in single family suburban homes. also many people have a very personal connection with cars, they think they are really cool looking or like to drive fast, or maybe into audio systems and loud bassy music. When your whole life revolves around this stuff growing up, you become indoctrinated in the mindset that cars can make you look cool and do cool things and it's very enticing to own and operate these machines. people with the money go buy big expensive cars and add all kinds of stuff to them like wheels or lights to make them all cool and badd to the bone. it's like apart of their identity the car has to fit their style and personality. I use to be a car guy until mine got wrecked in a accident and then i realized it's a waste and nobody really cars about you or your car unless they are other car guys. if there's any "security" you want to talk about, you might want to look into the type of people buying homes in the back of a massive "gated community". but then again not everyone wants to live in a dense town center with tall buildings and crowds of people walking all over the place.

[@LeoMkII]

Show them that aluminum doesn't stop bullets lol

[@ganthrithor]

I like how even the Tesla knows self-driving cars are a bad idea, and attempts to turn itself into a train.

[@berryberry8290]

bruh they even failed at making themselves a train

[@CancelYoutube026]

@@berryberry8290 with AI getting smarter and smarter, if there's an AI self drive, the mistakes will be close to 0% in the near future.

[@mike8877665544332211]

Imagine a world with self walking people. We slowly approach the age of Wall-E, most people only know how to walk from a building door to their car door. Also the world needs more public transport, for when a walk would be to far.

[@parthasarathibehera8463]

Man exactly like wall e situation 👍👍👍 I was thinking about that seeing the current developments

[@vodkaboy]

paradis climatisé et privatisé, the American dream was always a little dystopian, it became more obvious with more cynical people like Musk.

[@SioxerNikita]

We aren't because certain activities is preferred while walking.

[@feels6233]

As he mentioned the US is mostly way too big for that

[@enticingmay435]

It’s not the world, it’s America. America is slowing turning into Wall-E type society while the rest of the world continue to improve their public transport and fix their cities to be more people-centric.

[@lianvitos]

I once liked the idea of self driving cars. Now covid taught me, that a walkable neighbourhood and 100% homeoffice is the answer to everything.

[@D1.y]

sometimes the future is simple

[@kabaczek17]

Yeah it's the answer to everything only in your bubble of white collar keyboard smashing monkeys

[@j0hncarp]

@@D1.y unfortunately corporations can't profit from "simple"

[@AliothAncalagon]

There is nothing wrong with liking self-driving cars, just as there is nothing wrong with liking cars or many other things. The problem starts if people think this one thing they like is the best solution for everything.

[@useodyseeorbitchute9450]

Actually covid (or at least related panic) is not exactly the best selling point for mass transit.

[@martinavaslovik3433]

I would never have a self-driving car. I've been driving professionally for 8 years now I I know that no computer can anticipate human drivers on the road. I hope they are legislated out of existence, they are a real danger to the rest of us.

[@JohnBrockman]

"Unhealthy habits" and "out of control spending" are also societal problems. Shitty food management and depressed wages respectively.

[@jasonreed7522]

I would argue that depressed wages don't equate to out of contol spending because they are lack on income not excessive expenses. The government's 31trillion debt (last i checked) is much more akin to society having reckless spending habits and not having any way to pay for them.

[@TheNN]

As someone who bought into this idea for a long time, not for any 'well it'll solve traffic'-esque reasons, but more for the 'I can't drive a car myself'-type of reason, I thought for years that this was a really great idea, at least until I learned that where I live used to have a far more robust public transit that got stripped out in favor of a far smaller number of privatized taxis (cuz of course).

[@WhatIsSanity]

Yeah same. I still have fairly good public transit here but I don't use it much these days. I stopped when COVID hit and didn't start again. I got transport funding in my NDIS plan now so ride sharing doesn't cost me much or anything now which is cool.

[@condor237]

I’d much rather be able to take the bus or the metro than have to Uber everywhere

[@klubstompers]

Ever stop to ask yourself why the right always attacks any form a mass transit proposal, always supports urban sprawl and against infill, de regulates vehicle emissions, and is against any alternative fuel subsidies but is always in favor of oil subsidies, why they always are in support of strip malls but against multi use zoning, why they are always against spending for buses/trains but vote for billion $ freeway infrastructure bills? I always find it odd, that a huge percentage of republican politicians or republican appointed gov. officials used to be ceo's of big oil, or end up working for big oil with million $ salaries after their time in public office, and their campaigns are heavily funded by big oil. I wonder why that is.

[@prof.crastinator]

What he fails to mention is that with that level of vehicle communication, economic market forces can be used to keep capacity to a reasonable level. Of course with that comes huge security implications. But that would push people to use ride sharing to offset the costs induced by such a system.

[@samblensdorf7384]

Ride the train if you don't want to drive

[@LostSky866]

The rail longevity is very real, I live in Croatia and half of our tracks had been laid back in Habsburg times.

[@sarcasticguy4311]

Dirty little secret: Self-driving cars will never truly exist because the manufacturers realize that there's no software capable of making the same decisions that people can make instantly. It would require extremely advanced computer software that would cost more than anyone is willing to pay for and it would still make plenty of mistakes that even garbo drivers wouldn't make.

[@iminspacespace]

"Just one more lane" is the urban planning way of saying "just the tip"

[@giuseppezeppelo8289]

The first time I went to the USA as a tourist when I was a child I was completely confused by not seeing houses near restaurants or not being able to go from hotels to a restaurant or a super market. The thing that was more confusing to me was how those big ass 4 lane roads would have been possible to cross. (all of this in Orlando, when we went to the keys there the cities looked more understandable to me)

[@user-jk2zm7uq5s]

We did cross one of those four (six?) lane stroads to go to McDonald's just across the road from our hotel for dinner and apparently scared the staff because a couple of guys suddenly entered the restaurant but no car anywhere in the parking lot. They were really confused how we got there, even after we told them "look, it's just across the road". That stroad was a literal nightmare to cross though...

[@anthonythompson6053]

Ah, Orlando. Having lived in Florida for years now, these are among the most pedestrian unfriendly cities I’ve seen. The Keys and some other spots are wealthy enough (and geared towards tourists enough) to have actual walkability. The rest of the state doesn’t believe in that stuff, apparently.

[@halleradam]

Really interesting to hear a foreign perspective. People living in our dystopia are just unaware how bad their reality is vs. what it could be with just some changes in ways.

[@joegrecco1636]

The fascination with traffic as a uniquely American problem is truly fascinating. Month-long traffic jams in China, which built its infrastructure for communitarian rather than selfish or capitalistic purposes (as is commonly alleged of the US), are routinely ignored in these discussions.

[@naoyanaraharjo4693]

@@joegrecco1636 you do realize PRC now is rather capitalistic modelling their policies on USA right?

[@Omer1996E.C]

I believe that self driving vehicles are good idea. They can be used to make public transport work 24/7. Not personal cars

[@abroamg]

This 👍

[@octagonPerfectionist]

trains can be self-driving without needing all the complexity! just look at the vancouver skytrain

[@spinecho609]

Like a train piloted by a robot?

[@sirnikkel6746]

@@octagonPerfectionist Trains are stupid expensive to set up in comparison to a bus. And way less flexible.

[@arahman56]

@@octagonPerfectionist TTC has self-driving trains too. Mainly useful in making sure trains stop where they should very precisely.

[@willardSpirit]

You know what's kinda self driving vehicle? Trains/metros/ subways

[@n1ch0l4st8]

Self driving cars are not just bad, it's also is not fun, as a future car owner, I wish to have a manual driving car

[@CancelYoutube026]

It will be good for me when I own a self-driving car in the future. I just have to command my AI/self-driver, which can be a male or female with a voice and personality, and they can drive me anywhere I like while I am resting on my bed. I don't even need to touch the steering wheel any more. 😊

[@hydronpowers9014]

Boss: "Our city is constantly clogged up on a daily basis, creating these endless lines and of traffic. How do we fix it?" Employee 1: "Give electric cars to everyone at a premium" Employee 2: "Mandate motorists to drive alone everywhere" Employee 3: "Build more lanes for traffic" Employee 4: "Create an effective, efficient, clean, reliable public transit system " Boss: "What...?" Employee 4: "What? " *Boss throws employee 4 through the window*

[@LCTesla]

Employee 5: Mixed zoning so people can get necessities on foot Boss throws employee 5 down elevator shaft

[@davidty2006]

@@LCTesla There is no elevator shaft to throw him down.

[@indetermite]

Employee 6: "I've had enough of your BS! You get what you fucking deserve!" *Employee 6 shoots Boss, and Employees 1, 2 and 3 in the brainstem*

[@silvaskiproductions3937]

The janitor: god fucking damnit I don't het paid enough to clean this shit up!! I am so fucking tired of cleaning up your shitty toilets and pissy urinals just so I can go back to my studio apartment to get drunk just to keep myself sane!!!! FUCK MY LIFE!!!!! *jumps out of the window and yells on the way down "see you all in hell!!*

[@mostlyguesses8385]

Cars are most efficient timewise. TIME Transit if count walking to and from, waiting, train going 20mph, is slower, like 50 minutes vs 10 and do it 2 times a day. Worse, car with comfy seat and coffee cup and music playing is often relaxing, so pleasurable 20 minutes a day. . . Transit means more time away from family, transit places tend to have half the kids.... COST Taxwise cars are fine, $.30 gas tax keeps up with demand on 95% of places-times, having 20 miles in gridlock in entire state is 99.9999% success,..... Cars do cost person like $7000 a year, $20 a day, but if saves 80 minutes the work time is worth it, at $30hour the time is worth $40, so car MAKES MONEY IF JUST DO OVERTIME.... And transit costs bout $4 a day to rider, and another $4 paid in taxes, so $8 x 300 so $2400, so even transit city pays a price for people wanting to commute and eat out.. I am listening, in what way is Transit so superior?? I myself walk to work for exercise, but am sick of the dumb thinking that spending 2 hours getting to and from work getting Covid is even close to cars, it's brainwashing of the 10% that 90% laugh at. . .

[@browntennisball8055]

Elon Musk isn't always right? Such blasphemy!

[@Jason_vinion]

Noooooo mr billionaire is looking out for your best interests don’t listen to this fool!!! (This is a obvious joke but we all know there’s some car brains out there who won’t understand)

[@beanieteamie7435]

He just wants to sell more cars. He isn't stupid. He just wants money.

[@krishcshah]

Who could have guessed 🤯🤯

[@vodkaboy]

@@beanieteamie7435 consumers are pretty easy to manipulate, especially if you can mine data to target your media campaign at the most potential fragile people regarding certain topics. yes, just like Trump.

[@beanieteamie7435]

@@vodkaboy indeed.

[@answerman9933]

I never thought of self-driving cars as being a panacea for traffic. I just saw it as the ultimate step up from cruise control.

[@Waldemarvonanhalt]

CGP Grey's idea of perfectly synchronized cars reminds me of one of the scenes in LotGH, where the MC is in the capital city of his planet and then gets stuck in a massive traffic jam, because someone at the city's traffic department accidentally input bad code into the super-computer that managed the self-driving vehicles.

[@marcusc9931]

We've already had state-wide blackouts because everything was a singel neat system and someone at the power plant screwed up. So, we're already there. The only way is forward.

[@MrMarinus18]

Indeed, making them completely autonomous really isn't very viable as they would make most of the same mistakes a human driver would. There would need to be a central coordinating system to have any noticeable improvement. However that also induces a single point of failure and if that is taken out either accidently or deliberately the entire system grinds to a halt. I actually have a similar worry with electric cars as they remove an additional powersource in gasoline and rely even more on the single one which is the electric network. That means if the electricity grid fails all cars will fail as well. E-bikes don't have this problem as much as they are still functional even without electricity, just not as efficient. If we had something like a solar flare like in 1852 it could destroy our entire civilization.

[@corbinpeacock8722]

I would love to have safe, cheap, efficient transportation that I don't have to drive. You know, like a train.

[@sirjmo]

Now just make it cheap... It's already safe and efficient and don't drive.

[@ykcumop]

And slow and uncomfortable.

[@halt1931]

everything keeps coming back to trains in the end, huh

[@seanspeltwrong4402]

Cars are always gonna be needed in the US but city's should definitely be made public transport and human friendly. Just the pure scale and lack of population density in places like the Midwest make cars a necessity

[@nicholasfield6127]

Rual areas will need cars. Urban areas don't.

[@Mac_Omegaly]

Exactly. In europe they also still need cars. But there should be options for residents in suburbs to go to and from work in the city. But the other less obvious solution is to stop making massive central locations for traffic to accumulate at. Stop growing big cities and start building towns into small scale cities. (This is even worse for political reasons, so it won't happen in a big scale.) But this is kind of already happening in the USA. People are moving out of mega cities. But because of the money problem in our economy, there isn't going to be a significant ability to change the way we design towns into small cities, and build things up.

[@Amir-jn5mo]

The idea is that in urban and suburban areas, you wont have to use a car to commute to work or buy necessary food to survive. 66% of people in Amsterdam have cars and they love them. But they dont use them to get to work everyday or run errands. In the end it should be about using the right tool for the right job. Also I don't buy the density argument in US since a lot of major urban cities were people friendly and full of trams pre 1940s and the statistics for the country shows that the population has gone from 75% rural to 80% urban in the last 100 years.

[@seanspeltwrong4402]

@@Amir-jn5mo However that rural part is a massive amount of area. I live in a pretty rural county where public transport couldn't work on a great scale because of how spread out everybody is. Thats the only big flaw with a future without cars. Big city's for sure need to change

[@Amir-jn5mo]

@@seanspeltwrong4402 rural needs car of course bro. These insane commuter traffic we got is from subarbian and urban areas refusing to built more efficient transit and land use. Sadly subarbia has been such a plague to rural lands too. Here in Toronto it is estimated that 200 acres of farmland is being destroyed daily due to development :/

[@alcoholic2412]

I really admire the way you call out bullshit and lack of personal responsibility for what it is. Thank You!

[@Ellipsis115]

Wait, what about making self driving cars into trains?

[@dln97]

Such a big reason I chose to live in New York is because I wanted to live somewhere where I truly don’t need a car, and where it would in fact be unnecessary at best and cost prohibitive at worst. I was slightly surprised to find out how even New York is pretty car centric compared to most European cities I have visited (although that’s kind of like comparing apples to oranges.) however, I would argue New York is still livable, walkable, bikeable, and much more human friendly than many American cities I know of. There is potential for great change in the US; it is a difficult and expensive goal to achieve, but I have faith that we can sway public opinion in our urban populations to move toward this future

[@ThunderTheBlackShadowKitty]

It's true that NYC is more pedestrian friendly than most American cities and their metro is genuinely nice to have, but if you want one that's arguably even better, I've heard Philadelphia is making good progress. Note that's just what I heard, I don't actually live there. I would like to.

[@dln97]

@@ThunderTheBlackShadowKitty interesting, I will have it check it out! I have always wanted to visit Philadelphia. Maybe I’ll take my bike there too and see how the cycling is there

[@ThunderTheBlackShadowKitty]

@@dln97 Funny you mentioned that, they've been making bike lanes from streets they narrowed. I think you'll enjoy it. Alan Fisher praised Philly's efforts so far.

[@NexuJin]

I heard that Portland Oregon has pretty decent public transportation for an US city.

[@dln97]

@@NexuJin Yeah, I've heard great things about Portland. I would love to visit someday.

[@UberMan5000]

Wow, a self-driving car will somehow occupy no physical space on a road, and will be able to phase through all objects. That must be how it "solves traffic," I suppose. Because how does a car, that's still on a road with other cars, going to not be in traffic just because it's driving itself?

[@trioptimum9027]

I mean, being able to instantly and honestly communicate with every other car on the road would be more efficient. If God spoke from a burning Tesla and told you that buses and trains were an abomination and single-passenger vehicles were the only way, self-driving vehicles would be better than just having everyone do it themselves. But it's very much like comparing the speed of riding a horse from Boston to New York, versus walking from Boston to New York. Obviously if you're in a hurry you want to take a train or an airplane. Just because the horse is better than walking doesn't mean hOrSeS aRe ThE aNsWeR tO tRaFfIc.

[@sharmaman1]

@@trioptimum9027 The problem is, V2V (Vehicle-Vehicle) is dead in the water, and is likely to stay that way for the forseeable future. The automakers just lost access to a large chunk of spectrum initially needed for it because they simply didn't act on it in the 20 years they had access to it. A few cars have it installed, but they're useless atm. If V2V is not a thing in the future I think self-driving has some serious trouble ahead.

[@cautemoc4624]

Yeah and all the car crashes it'd prevent are just meaningless anyways. Everyone knowns crashes don't cause traffic jams or anything, and human life has no value so let's just ditch the idea.

[@clydecraft5642]

@@cautemoc4624 you are an example of a gaslighter :) you dont try and help anything you just slap some remarks about something you have a strong opinion but no knowledge about and leave, please do real research about how teslas driving ai will still regularly try to kill you doing stupid things, ai are not humans where they will second guess a bad action, the ai determined its right and its going to take you somewhere, and your only chance is to wrench the wheel, and sure it might work the rest of the time but there are so many sweeping societal changes in our infrastructure that would need to happen to make self driving cars truly safe and reliable that it would be incredibly unfeasible compared to JUST MAKING A GOOD GOD DAMN TRAIN SYSTEM

[@clydecraft5642]

And by societal infrastructure changed i mean we would have to remove all the stupid intersections in america, or have likely expensive electronic car directors that help teslas guide to real roads and not railroad tracks or something stupid like that, or we could all just wear coats and ride bikes and work on our cardio as a country instead :)

[@wimeatsworld]

Like the thumbnail says, we can fix traffic. If we just use enough "self driving" cars, given enough time, we will all be "fixed" in traffic (as opposite to mobile) because the cars will all have crashed and thus blocked and "fixed" all traffic.

[@philtkaswahl2124]

Obviously the solution is self-driving VTOLs! Thousands of them over a crowded city to clear the streets. Nothing could _possibly_ go wrong with this plan. Absolutely nothing.

[@727Phoenix]

I recall seeing CGP Grey's video, amazed that it was very similar to an essay I wrote many years ago about how much better life would be if every car was self-driving and networked. Then the next day I walked to the bus station and my thinking kind of like AdamSomething prevented me from posting it anywhere. The last part you mentioned is very important for us Americans especially, creating and supporting pedestrian-friendly initiatives. - One of the causeways crossing Tampa Bay Florida was the only one with a separate pedestrian/bicycle attatchment lane before I moved there. Then they dismantled it. Maintenance costs too high. - Like the vast majority of railroads in the Greatest Country On Earth, the one that runs near my home is tarred over, abandoned for decades. - The most effective way out of poverty is access to transportation. Here in the Land Of The Free that means buying a car or truck (unless you're in a major city).

[@NiAlBlack]

Well, I think that self driving cars do have a place in this world, just not the way they are usually advertized. They'll be a great supplement to public transit in rural areas where buses are simply not worth it due to low density. In those areas so few vehicles would be needed that a traffic jam is absolutely impossible.

[@BeatAngel]

Indeed, it's not a solution to solving traffic, but it can be a really good solution to solving traffic safety. I also believe that full self driving cars (level 5) are possible, yet Tesla is giving anything related a bad image.

[@riley_oneill]

@Evi1 M4chine Most suburban neighborhoods transit is not viable. The developments are just so large with everyone spread out that a very small portion of the neighborhood population will consider using transit for any reason. People will not walk more than about 300m to take a bus or tram. When properly designed you can fit a lot of stuff in a 300m radius but in a suburban neighborhood, 300m is like nothing. The drop-off for ridership grows significantly the further out that radius goes. If you are absolutely lucky you might get 250 single family homes within a 300m radius, and in many areas its probably fewer. A mid density urban area might get 1000. A really dense area might be 6000. The way nearly every community in the US since the late 1940s has been built is such a way where transit is absurdly impractical.

[@Demonic_Culture_Nut]

@@riley_oneill Streetcars could take people from þeir suburban houses to þe bus/train station. We just need some rails for þem and regulations barring personal transport from said rails in almost every circumstance. Don't even need a streetcar station, þey can be slow enough for just about anyone to safely hop on or off at any time.

[@riley_oneill]

@@Demonic_Culture_Nut There are very few suburban developments where you could build effective street cars. I am unaware of slow moving street cars that do not need stops. The ones I have seen still require regular stops. Take a look at a community like Moreno Valley California, or Murrieta California and then figure out where you would put the transit and you end up getting an unworkable and expensive system.

[@Demonic_Culture_Nut]

@@riley_oneill Þe streetcars I described did exist, and þey didn't just take people to a bus/train station. Þey were *ÞE* way to travel if you didn't want to walk in cities. Cars weren't allowed to drive on þeir infrastructure. Þen þe auto industry lobbied to repeal þat law, which resulted in streetcars getting stuck in traffic. Streetcar companies fell into þe red, only for þe cause of þeir financial troubles to come in and buy þem, only to strip þem of everyþing, including infrastructure.

[@Incognito-vc9wj]

When I see a truck in front of me on the highway, Tesla AI sees a 3D cube. I’ll keep my hands on the wheel Thankyou very much.

[@karols9660]

You forgot one big aspect of the self driving transport revolution. Self driving public transport! This will indeed solve many problems.

[@conors4430]

When I was younger, i used to think, what if we had self driving cars, but they all communicated with each other, or if they even connected to each other on a travelator like device to allow more of them on without the need to pass one another, or if the road instructed the cars what they could and couldn’t do. then I realised I had invented a train

[@miguellopez3392]

Cool when does the train stop by my house?

[@Soken50]

@@miguellopez3392 When you move near a station or your neighbourhood becomes dense enough to warrant one.

[@miguellopez3392]

@@Soken50 so 1% of the land in the US.

[@Soken50]

@@miguellopez3392 Not my fault your country's infrastructure sucks nowadays, it used to be that everyone lived next to one because the country was colonised using fecking trains. Petition your local authority for some fecking mixed use land development and public transport then marvel at the resulting walkable and enjoyable neighbourhood. Or keep living in your god awful residential suburbs forcing you to use your car to go do anything in a commercial district plagued by drivethroughs, parking lots and stroads.

[@MsZsc]

@@miguellopez3392 you can't say you're in too deep into a problem as an excuse and then go on to spend exponentially more on digging the same hole rather than just attempt to get planners to do a modest amount of real urban planning for a fraction of what you were going to do anyway

[@philipsalama8083]

Dealing with the 'self driving' car's bullshit looks so much more stressful than actually driving.

[@berberr9714]

Self driving cars makes using a car more user friendly = more people would use cars = theres more cars on the road doesnt matter how good ur algorithm is it cannot drive if the road is full

[@jmurray1110]

You know while watching I think I’ve come up with a good analogy for induced demand Adding lanes is the printing more money of urbanism

[@lukecwolf]

I was so obsessed with self driving cars as a kid. I was sold on the idea that they would make roads safer, how cool it would be to drive hands free, all the tech jobs it could offer etc. Then sometime i grew up, and maybe after I got a car in an American urban hellscape that I realized the solution might not be to make a better car, but to have (among other things) less cars and better roads (or just better urban planning). *Shrug* . Anyways, pieces like this make me wonder/understand how I got sold on the idea in the first place.

[@Josh_Quillan]

Or both, that's viable too, it's not one or the other. Child you wasn't wrong, nor is adult you. You just haven't considered how pleasant it would be if everyone who doesn't want to drive doesn't have to, because they have access to good public transport and local amenities in walking distance, so everyone who actually wants to drive can enjoy it a lot more. Personally I'm pretty certain that they'll make roads safer too.

[@hufficag]

Me too, I was watching the Darpa challenge every year, trying to program algorithms in C

[@KingThrillgore]

I still think self-driving cars are a good idea because it takes the chore of long-distance driving away. However, we're here because nobody ever wanted to expand train capacity as a cheaper, safer fix for long-distance transportation. Especially in the US.

[@MrToradragon]

@Mike The exist, as a concept, for more than half of the century. As well, as far as I remember, they became buzzword some 10-12 years ago, so that guy can easily be in his late teens, or early 20's. As well, when one stop being child? I would say that not earlier than 12 or even as late as 13-14. But this definition is tricky (combined with the fact that human memory is prone to errors and simplifications) as it depends on overall development, both physical and mental.

[@julius43461]

Real solutions are always less cool, at least to a teenager. Once you are past 30, you realize the genius of simple unsexy solutions.

[@teenkitsune]

My father would deem your solutions unrealistic, but really it's because it would require a lot of spending which he's against because he's convinced that anytime the government spends money it just makes the economy worse, even though I never hear him criticizing the wasteful military spending this country indulges in.

[@darth0tator]

does he know that building another lane is also paid for by the government?

[@jsrodman]

We all have our beliefs and dogmas, but some of us have beliefs and dogmas that are closer to reality, or stand up to the most trivial scrutiny.

[@SilverDragonJay]

have you tried informing him that large scale government projects like this create jobs for decades? Even once the work is complete, you still need people to maintain stuff so a decent portion of those jobs have to remain even once the initial construction is complete. And those people are taking money from the government and putting it back into the economy by paying for food, housing, entertainment, etc. Large government projects like these (building infrastructure like trains) are actually pretty good for the economy in the long run. Even if you have told him this over and over, good luck. I know what its like having a dad who's too stuck in the past to accept change no matter how good.

[@malcolm_in_the_middle]

Unfortunately, historically he's correct. The US government has a disastrous spending history, including on the military. Even though urban redesign is necessary, if it's plagued by incompetence and corruption, costs will just escalate out of control. The US government needs to win back taxpayer trust through a demonstration of responsible spending.

[@spaghettiisyummy.3623]

Is your Feather American or Russian?

[@dasme8210]

the thing is to make self driving cars work, they can't really be with other non-self driving cars, so they probably would need their own transportation network separate from other vehicles. Which at that point you really just end up having a train without any of the benefits of a train.

[@theultimatereductionist7592]

Well said!

[@chaineddepths9523]

It could work very well for allowing better access too deadzones which exist within public transport networks

[@thejuiceking2219]

wait, didn't elon do that?

[@mugnuz]

Uh and why?

[@Darca1n]

@@chaineddepths9523 Know what could also fill in said deadzones? Expanded public transportation.

[@lukewilliams8548]

In my American town, we have to use cars to get anywhere, but there aren't traffic jams, and there are two lanes for each direction, totaling 4. It takes 15 minutes to drive to the other side of town. Though I have been to another city where waiting at each stoplight took forever. In my world, everyone has a car. You can't really get anywhere without it. While it does work, there is the problem of pollution, and walking places sounds like it would help with the obesity problem. You've also pointed out the problem of large roads turning things into a baking pan. Also, streets being a place of seeing people and talking to each other sounds nice. Even though my city doesn't have some of the problems you often talk about, I like the ideas you share. It seems that having things closer together and walkable seems to help solve some problems. I'd want to be willing to switch to that, but it's not like I can just walk in my town as it is now. Also, I have some questions. How do you transport a large volume of things? Are you limited to what you can carry? I'm used to being able to load things into my car and it takes multiple trips to and from the car. What about when it's very hot or when it's very cold? The car is a small room of warmth in the -5 to 10 degree winter and cool in the 80 to 100 degree summer. Do you have a solution to these things or is it a convenience you have to give up? Those would be the hardest to give up.

[@chasemartin4450]

Here's my personal take on the issue: the benefits of being protected from inclement weather are so great that enclosed transportation will continue to remain a thing for the foreseeable future. One solution which I think will become quite popular in the future is to simply drive smaller cars, more in the territory of mid-20th century European city cars than modern massive SUVs. This will help cut back on a lot of the issues with car-centric infrastructure (although not eliminate it entirely) and has the added benefit of "microcars" being insanely efficient. Run-of-the-mill vehicles could easily achieve 200 mpge with existing technology. The other solution takes advantage of the fact that most forms of open-air transportation like bicycles, scooters, and skateboards are quite affordable (both in terms of price and the environmental impact of manufacturing them) compared to cars. In many places, people who currently drive 100% of the time could practically use these other vehicles *some* of the time, helping to lower the average number of cars on the road and reduce the amount of car-centric infrastructure needed in our communities.

[@charlo90952]

Just buy a plane ticket to Amsterdam and see for yourself. It gets cold and hot and people continue to ride bicycles. You get warm when cycling in the cold and in the summer the road is shaded by trees. Large items can be delivered. Grocery shopping is done daily at a neighborhood store on the way home from work on the train. It's a far better way to live.

[@williamhuang8309]

Cold weather probably isn't that big of an issue. After all, you can always put on more clothes. As for hot weather, adding shade helps a lot to alleviate this problem. I'd rather spend 10 minutes walking in the shade than 5 minutes walking from a parking lot to a store in the hot sun. As for transporting stuff, the youtube Channel Not Just Bikes has a lot of videos on life without or with less cars in the Netherlands. In particular, look at the videos on cargo bikes and carshare

[@ibimssss]

3:10 trains are so good that even the computer wants to be a train

[@TheOsakuro]

Ironically, trains are kind of the closest thing we have to self driving vehicles.

[@iit5530]

They are and they are 10 times better and efficient

[@davidty2006]

Theres alot of automated systems on modern trains. They just require a member of staff to be somewhere on the train just vibing.

[@davidty2006]

@@iit5530 And are simpler to develop since rail lines are super predictable.

[@andremrh7690]

@@davidty2006 And if an animal jumps out, the train just crushes it instead of spinning out of control like a car. Grim stuff, but only really bad incidents like a huge tree or a vehicle can so much as make a dent in a train. It takes something really catastrophic to stop a train completely like derailing or a huge rock in the middle of the tracks. The only problem is mechanical reliability, but with newer electric motors and small scale, limp-back-to-the-station motors, that's gonna be solved around 5 to 10 years time.

[@arthurbdt2329]

@@iit5530 Trains are only efficient in ultra-dense areas. Otherwise it’s juste money sqaundering.

[@watersheep8222]

The whole point of cars is a have a small box that you are in control of. You might as well take public transport if you don't like driving.

[@leonpaelinck]

Literally everybody hates driving in traffic

[@zz3OPEN]

Self driving cars = an inevitable loss of personal freedom and responsibility.

[@CancelYoutube026]

It will be good for me when I own a self-driving car in the future. I just have to command my AI/self-driver, which can be a male or female with a voice and personality, and they can drive me anywhere I like while I am resting on my bed. I don't even need to touch the steering wheel any more. 😊

[@segriffincom]

I'd like to hear more about this "avoiding due diligence" and how to make that work. If we could get that going I think we'd really be somewhere.

[@lazyboy300]

i never thought of self-driving cars as a way to solve traffic. i always saw it as way to get rid of human problems like drunk drivers, sleepy drivers, texting drivers, angry drivers, older low reflexes drivers, etc. plus, the tech for self driving vehicles wouldn't be applied for cars only, but for trucks carrying cargo thru long distances, buses, trams and trains. all of them communicating p2p with each other, avoiding crashes and being able to adjust routes in real time. none of this would ever "solve" traffic or substitute mass transit, but it could make for a more orderly traffic with less crashes and more time for people to work, read, play or whatever while commuting.

[@jobw]

Agreed! And eventually the infrastructure will be adapted also e.g. in spots where the computers make mistakes. Like today where accident prone stretches are made safer.

[@BlockwizardGaming]

Yes but we wont see AI good enough to allow us to "work, read, play or whatever" while it drives for us for another couple hundred years most likely. We are so astromnomicly far away from that right now.

[@olgagaming5544]

Self driving cars are imo just for people who want to reduce the stress of driving around, especially a huge city can be very stressful and with a self driving one, even a bad driver could be chilling just watching the street

[@TheShushumigaaa]

@@BlockwizardGaming Idk dude, I work in AI software development, although not self-driving and to be honest the field is progressing so fast in the past 10 years that it's hard for me to keep up with recent developments. I'd wager we will have proper lvl5 self-driving in under 10 years.

[@lazyboy300]

@@BlockwizardGaming yeah, we're still far away, but hopefully a couple decades instead of a couple centuries 😅 i'd love to see it before i die at least

[@steve.k4735]

Self driving transportation would enable the shift of ALL commercial traffic to non peak times dependent on local conditions, because it does away with human rest / sleep patterns .. but this will take years we don`t even have the first FSD yet and total fleet is probably 25 years out minimum.

[@mariolandgraf5896]

It would still mean that all those people stuck in traffic from/to work are stuck in traffic from/to work because there weren't all that many trucks in between in the video.

[@steve.k4735]

@@mariolandgraf5896 In those videos no their were not but they are a slice of reality not reality itself, you can quickly check statistics online in the UK (my country) approx. 20% of traffic is commercial. Plus self driving cars unlike humans can network and fully utilise all routes plus self driving cars do not (as much) need to park in the UK vast amount of roadways are full of parked cars. The maker of this video ignores multiple changes that are possible with full autonomy although that may be 25 years out as most of the fleet needs to change to realise. but number 1 when stuck in traffic I have to still stay 100% concentrating on driving .. now if I could sleep, surf the net, play a video game or watch a movie its a completly different experience

[@mariolandgraf5896]

@@steve.k4735 According to your numbers, at best self-driving Lorries reduce traffic by 20% in the UK if *all* could be removed from 'peak hours'. I doubt even that because a lot of that traffic is already not during peak hours (transport to supermarkets usually happens way before most office workers drive to work). "Fully utilise all routes" means diverting traffic to residential streets (is that the proper term in the UK?), which already happens with bad GPS navigation and is generally regarded as a bad thing. You want the FSD vehicles to coast around if they can't find parking space? That'd make traffic even worse. The bad thing isn't "being stuck in traffic in an uncomfortable car". The bad thing is "being stuck in traffic".

[@steve.k4735]

@@mariolandgraf5896 if its 10% that's a lot try building 10% more roads No it means using all major routes FSD makes cars a utility 97% time cars sit parked (many blocking traffic) remove the parked cars keep the rest moving toi get to the next user, I don't want to own a $25,000 lump of metal to travel `uncomfortable car` is not the same as sleeping or watching a film that's not a apt description ,, yes it will still be a pain being stuck as it is on a train ,, but still not having to concentrate is a big issue FSD if its possible (its not yet proven that it is) will vastly change driving, besides which most jams are rush hour and 25 years from now gods know how much work will be remote

[@toose8388]

5:45 "Why is there so much traffic in America to begin with? Other countries don't have problems like that, at least not on that level" lolll WHAT? Pretty sure every country I've ever been in has had traffic.

[@lukasxss1794]

bro how can you just not read? "at least not on that level" which is very true btw good luck getting trough a strongtown in under 30 minutes

[@toose8388]

@@lukasxss1794 Have you been outside of the US? Traffic in Sao Paulo, Mexico City, Shanghai, etc is at least as bad as traffic in large American cities.

[@3xfaster]

The pandemic surprisingly proved that people friendly, walkable areas where better for commerce because parking spaces where not blocking store fronts with street parking and thus allowed people to browse and window shop more freely. Some streets in where I lived discovered that they had better buisness by closing blocks off to street traffic and that it was quieter and more commerce taking place and better foot traffic for store fronts!

[@MultiMidden]

Whereas I can show you examples of people who lived on fairly quiet *residential* roads who now have a constant stream of traffic due to such changes on a primarily business street. Apparently their quality of life doesn't matter in "The Grand Plan"

[@AmasterfulJuice]

I mean I guess self driving cars are just the car version of those japanese high tech toilets.

[@12kenbutsuri]

Hei, japanese high-tech toilets are useful, it eliminats mist of the wasteful toilet paper use, and pays its self within years

[@hibachimk240]

Except it's less likely someone ends in an hospital when something goes wrong.

[@Ometecuhtli]

How did we go from high tech to high school toilets, is this a romance anime now?

[@12kenbutsuri]

@@Ometecuhtli autocorrect lol

[@AmasterfulJuice]

@@12kenbutsuri the costs of repairing that toilet pile up, No matter how much water and toilet paper it saves, unless you can mine crypto on it, I don't think it pays itself.

[@GigachadiusMaximusCaesar]

Ironically, creating a more dense, pedestrianized settlement will help people get more fit as well and will save people lots of money on gasoline.

[@it_is_i_deo]

As an American, I'll have you know that the nearest grocery store is 10 minutes away by car, 2 hours away by foot, I would know, I've walked it. Can't wait to get out of this country

[@raynegallaher7661]

Seems like when it comes to solving traffic, artificial intelligence is not a substitute for regular intelligence

[@lugyd1xdone195]

The problem is this artificial inteligence wasnt made to solve traffic, its to make cars. There are programs that can build pretty sufficient city plans. Even slimes are able to build good public infrastracture. Seriously.

[@the_expidition427]

Just build a train

[@EvocativeKitsune]

Cute Picrew

[@TheError101]

Well maybe if they make the AI good enough the selfdriving cars will just bring you to the nearest train station or busstop instead of to your destination. If the task for the AI is reduce traffic as well as you can it might at some point come to the right conclusion. There is always hope.

[@xe-wf5iv]

To be fair we have never built a real AI. So we really can't say if it would be a substitute. What media calls "AI" these days is just a trained computer program. That is not even close to real AI.

[@MrA6060]

the thing with induced demand, i feel like it's only used to stop making more lanes for cars, but never with the argument to build more bike infrastructure, like when people ask "if we build this no one will use it" it's induced demand just like building more car lanes. And i would certainly use proper bike infrastructure instead of the painted line that i have now, for about 30 meters of my journey to work.

[@MrToradragon]

That is true, they do not speak about the elephant in the room, that the same issues that cars cause will be in the end caused by bikes as well.

[@GTAVictor9128]

@@MrToradragon Not really, as bikes occupy only a small fraction of the space that cars need, making a single cyclist more space efficient than a full carpool.

[@Misa.misato]

@@j.a.b.nijenhuis8124 I mean, building free bike parking is still cheaper than patching and maintaining all the wear and tear the cars cause to the roads. So ultimately it's still cheaper for the government and the taxpayer. Not to mention all the money the regular people save by not needing to pay for a car. It's a win-win for everyone except the car manufacturers and the oil companies.

[@ligametis]

You know why people choose to use whenever new lanes are added? Because alternatives suck and decrease quality of life, people want a personal car at the first possibility.

[@ligametis]

@@GTAVictor9128 And cars a small fraction of space compared to trains and busses. If we talk about private transport.

[@mineralin641]

Any politician can say they want pedestrian-friendly cities. I wanna vote for one who says they are willing to be car-hostile to achieve it.

[@RegsaGC]

Not to mention all the additional use cases self-driving cars will add. If you're rich enough, you'll buy your child a car to drive around wherever. You will put a piece of furniture in the driver's seat, and send it over to your uncle who agreed to buy it. You will work in the car while taking a 2hr trip to go to a business meeting that could be handled over e-mail.

[@schokicoder]

I once sat in a Tesla, my brother (as the driver) activated the self-driving mode. It was the scariest experience in my life and we would've caused a severe accident if my brother would not have intervened. This is the story of how i became a subscriber of this channel.

[@contrapasta2454]

The brief clips he showed of someone using the "Beta FSD" were nailbiters. It's like letting a kid or a drunk take the wheel.

[@LiveType]

​@@contrapasta2454 To be completely fair those intersections are complex AF compared to wasteland suburbia to drive. My very initial experience mirrors that autopilot situation shockingly closely as someone who grew up in suburbia. While I wouldn't say I was as confidently bad as the tesla, there were certainly 1 or 2 narrow misses. It takes a few weeks to learn the roads. Then you're fine and you don't make those mistakes again. The exact target demographic of a Tesla with autopilot is literally me. A wealthy individual living in suburbia that can make the mandatory car driving much less tiring. From my experience with it, Tesla is right on the money. Move into anything even slightly more complicated and all bets are off. Just look at any demo video of any "real world" self driving cars and you'll see that they require 24/7 perfect conditions with very minimal traffic load, very simple and easy streets, and very minimal "randomized events". Essentially the current self driving cars are just slower, far more hesitant drivers. Exactly like people first learning to drive except they don't ever seem to get much better like a human eventually does.

[@VeganAtheistWeirdo]

@@contrapasta2454 Go check out AI Addict's channel. He used to work for Tesla's AI tech department until he released that video. I don't know all the details, but I'm guessing they either had it in his contract, or as a general policy, that he was not to "reveal" or "discuss" aspects of the technology (like how little it has progressed compared to the hype) outside the company. He felt it was more important to let people know the true capabilities of the FSD product, specifically that *the human driver MUST BE FULLY ATTENTIVE AT ALL TIMES* because an AI that hasn't learned how to tell railroad tracks from lane markers or big red squares on buildings from stop signs is not ready to take on what random idiots around you may do at any moment.

[@keith6706]

@@VeganAtheistWeirdo Yeah, if anything the videos make it clear that allowing the autopilot to take control makes it more stressful than just driving. If you're driving, you don't normally have to worry about your arms suddenly deciding to turn the car into the side of a building.

[@Torthrodhel]

I'd honestly love a self-driving car as a disability aid, speaking as someone who will never, for safety's sake, be permitted the freedom of travel that car owners enjoy. In an ideal world, that's what these things would be, not starry-eyed techno-dreamer "traffic fixes". It's gonna take a workforce revolution to fix traffic. You need to require companies to transport their own employees, not employees to transport themselves. It would be efficient use of vehicles (cutting down on spare seats), and crucially, it would incentivise them to employ people more locally. You take the millions and millions of problems of, say, two people both doing inessential anywhere-jobs (which most jobs definitely are) just to have excuses to be allowed to keep surviving, both having to travel to each other's very far-apart city daily, when easily, they could just swap jobs... but they'd never know it. But you create a situation that discourages that sort of outsourcing in the first place and you don't even end up in that jam. And sure you could always point out a few anomalies but that'd be the point - they'd be anomalies, rounding errors - they wouldn't just be part of the normal mix. Profit motive, it's all profit motive. Anyone serious about making society function properly needs to get rid of profit motive and work from that starting point. It's no good pretending it works. There's way too much evidence that it doesn't. It's bad systems design. Companies will still care about efficiency. The problem right now is they care more about enrichment than efficiency. You have to remove that overriding factor that keeps systems awful. You have to never have the excuse that I've got enough to fall back on to make as many mistakes as I want (which is disproportionately filtered-for among those in charge of things), and you have to never have the reason that it's better for me to let a thousand people suffer more so long as I suffer less because I'm "worth" several magnitudes of them. That's how you transform the incentive to "go green" or "build smart" from vanity projects, optics massages, headline grabs, political flavour distinction, role justification busywork, and optional pride-of-work-face ego boosts... all motivations which will unsustain themselves at a whim... into actual honest-to-goodness what somebody in charge always wants to do for the sake of doing a good job of it. Remove the graemlin, let the cogs turn.

[@NeuralSensei]

That amount of coordination is only doable by an AI, and we don't have anything anywhere close to this advanced.

[@Torthrodhel]

@@NeuralSensei yes I completely agree it's a long way off yet. It'd be a greater danger on the road as-is than I'd be with my seizures. I'm just annoyed that people are deluding themselves that it's going to solve traffic, instead of developing it in earnest as the purpose it should have. As well as being appauled, even if not at all surprised, as Musk's AI being built to switch itself off in order to avoid culpability. The guy likes to think of himself as so above-it-all but his behaviour is certainly the same expected psychopathy as any other corporate rando.

[@crash.override]

It's not even that profit motive doesn't work; it's that we aren't currently charging corporations for these negative externalities. If we start doing so, then they'll rejigger their economic calculations accordingly.

[@sclair2854]

@@NeuralSensei We dont have anything quite that advanced yet, but if we look at 30 year time scales it seems much more possible.

[@Torthrodhel]

@@crash.override no, it really is that profit motive doesn't work. If it did, there'd be evidence of it working. All I have ever seen is evidence of it being ridiculous faith-based leap-of-logic style design with expectably horrible human consequence. The motivations of these companies are informed by the profit motive itself. They are functioning 100% according-to-it. The more evil they are, the more they are adhering to its philosophy. Why try to make a square wheel roll when you could instead just replace it with a round one?

[@BalooUriza]

Love that minute-long intro about snake oil that seamlessly transitions into an ad for snake oil.

[@AdiPat_]

Tesla's car needs 20-30 SuperComputers to take a Single turn in India. I'm telling you with my personal experience. 😅😅

[@ano_nym]

3:39 to be fair, this is something that a human driver would probably have missed too. At least judging by the video that car was basically invisible.

[@herbybey7698]

I agree that a human driver could not have reacted in time based on this video either. The human eye is often superior to cameras in low light conditions though. The high dynamic range of human vision is very useful, allowing us to see some detail in darkness even if there are distracting bright lights present. I'm not sure what this situation would have looked like to the naked eye, but there is a good chance there would have been more time to react based on human eyesight.

[@ano_nym]

@@herbybey7698 Perhaps in this case, we don't really know. Is this the actual camera image the car used, or is it some dash cam? In any case you could have a car with a "night vision" system, which is much more powerful than the human eye. Or even lidar or similar technology that doesn't need "vision" at all.

[@herbybey7698]

@@ano_nym True. There are sensor options which offer advantages over human senses. Radar or Lidar would have most likely helped in this case. I was assuming that this incident was related to Tesla. They pride themselves in using ordinary cameras only at the moment, which is cost effective, but inferior to a system with a more versatile set of sensors.

[@ano_nym]

@@35mm21 You are arguing for different things here. The point of a self driving car is for it to be self driving. The video is showing that they are clearly not at that level yet. Obviously in this case there would have been a higher chance if the driver was more attentive, because then you would have two "systems" ready to act, the car and the driver. But the point is that it's supposed to be a self driving system. The car should have reacted and stopped on its own, if it were working as intended. The person in the car shouldn't have to do anything. And a human driving certainly isn't at attention and ready to stop at all times. Just basing it on reality we humans get bored and content easily. If nothing has happened and the road looks exactly the same for the last ten miles, then our minds wont be prepared for a sudden emergency stop. Leading to slower reaction times etc. It's also based on what you learn, you shouldn't always drive at 100% tension, then you will just tire out your mind. You learn to judge when you need to be extra attentive, and when you can ease up a bit. Driving in a neighborhood with many connected roads and poor visibility is somewhere where you need to be at attention, as someone may suddenly drive out or a kid run out on the road. Driving on a highway is not such a place. That's one of the pros with self driving cars, should we get them to work reliably some day. They don't get tired, they can be at attention all the time, and use much more sensor data than we could process, in a much faster time. Obviously this is not were we are yet though.

[@thexalon]

@@herbybey7698 The human eye is often superior to cameras in consistent low-light conditions, but night driving isn't consistently low-light conditions thanks to bright oncoming headlights, traffic lights, vehicles flashing their turn signals, etc. Keeping your night vision functioning through all that is a major problem - you can do strategies like focusing on the right side of the road when a car is coming at you, but that only goes so far. Also making things worse for human eyes are the people that think that turning on their hazard lights in difficult driving conditions makes them safer. When in fact what it does is makes it so everyone around them has to try seeing what's going on while getting random reflections and refractions of flashing lights that make it much harder to see what's going on.

[@swaggerdagger8976]

They’re like trains for people who hate social interaction and efficiency

[@amir_oates]

So the train for introverts

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

I love how casually says to fckn rebuild towns. Walkable bla bla does jack shit unless you live there. Which most ppl do not. And will not.

[@duploman1000]

i'm pretty sure self-driving central traffic network communication cars will be kind of an opt in thing, with manual drivers having to cause a statistically worrying ammount of accidents and traffic jams for there to be any pressure for them to shift over too. and one day they'll come to the conclusion that they should build trains

[@charlestonianbuilder344]

nah, they'll think of another ''solution'' to traffic like electric cars, the hyperloop, the underground lanes, and other bs and would never address the root of the problem unless you tear the system down

[@slavtaker]

Yeah i already hated when tesla started adding this bullshit to cars

[@me0101001000]

Hear me out: we make the cars self-driving, yes. But Why stop there? Let's allow them to constantly be on the move, loading and unloading people at specific places in the city. And for better efficiency, we link them together like a chain. But why stop there? Let's make it so that rather than a lot of small cars in chain, it's a few big ones in chain moving around the city to pick people up and drop people off in an automatic way. How about that?

[@electric7487]

And get rid of the batteries, because they are weapons of mass destruction and present a lot of environmental challenges. Why not power them with an overhead wire?

[@malcolm_in_the_middle]

If your chain also moves on a set course, without any other traffic, you could also give that course a more durable surface. Steel would probably work well. And you only really need the steel underneath the wheels, considering, that your self driving chain should never deviate from it's course. In fact, you could make it so that the wheels lock into the steel to ensure that it doesn't deviate from the course, in the event of a failure of the self-driving software (due to a Russian EMP of course, not bad programming).

[@iit5530]

What are you telling me to travel with the p*or people🤢🤢🤮🤮

[@electric7487]

@@malcolm_in_the_middle I got a name for it! The *M* onumental *E* lectric *T* ransport *R* evolution *O* bject

[@festivebear9946]

One thing we have to notice as a society is the fact that not everyone should get what they want all the time. Cars are one of the ultimate examples of this. You want ultimate comfort and mobility, you want to travel anywhere in any weather at any time and distance. This machine, the car, allows you to! But now you've just fed your own ego and this becomes an expectation rather than a privilege and you develop a selfish outlook on things. Ugh, I want to go to the store but it's sooo far away and traffic is terrible. I could take the metro but then I have to walk 8 minutes with groceries, ugh, let me just order food again. This is the disease of comfort, capitalism, and frankly, most of western society. I know this specific example doesn't apply to everyone everywhere, but I feel this statement can be generalized to many things that we do in our daily lives. Do you really deserve all the comfort and fun you can have? Or, maybe, you should learn to be happier with less and truly see if things are necessary. Take a bike.

[@user-mf3oc6mj5l]

As a software engineer who understands what AI is, I find it quite obvious that self driving will always be something you do at your own risk unless they build a road infrastructure with predefined routes that keeps track of where each car is at all times. And if you are doing that, you might as well start laying down rails. But of course, you can't sell cars by laying down rails.

[@marcusc9931]

You've never stood in crowded public transport with two bags of groceries, have you?

[@user-mf3oc6mj5l]

@@marcusc9931 No, I haven't. I have lived in 3 countries so far in different places, and everywhere I had at least one grocery shop in walking distance, usually multiple.

[@marcusc9931]

@@user-mf3oc6mj5l So do I, but the choice of food is painfully generic.

[@user-mf3oc6mj5l]

@@marcusc9931 This is where we go into the territory of personal preferences, but my understanding is that if you need to shop far from home only for variety, you can afford to pick a more convenient time, go with other people, make it easier for yourself by other means (e.g., use a backpack and your own bags) or even use a taxi. You typically can get your basic milk, eggs and whatnot nearby.

[@grantrithor]

I'm a software developer, studied computer science, and so on. I know how programmers and their management make technical decisions, while we do our best job there is a lot of stuff going on that would make anyone think twice about letting a car drive itself. However I don't think self driving vehicles are bad in a vacuum, but I do think there are some premises missing when people come to the conclusion that they will magically fix traffic. There are benefits to automation, but I am absolutely unconvinced on that one.

[@TalesOfWar]

This comment reminds me of the Dilbert comic where he says how terrible software engineers are at their job and it's amazing people trust them to do anything.

[@shadowingyou]

Except that the problems with self-driving car, even in a vacuum, proves it is worthless and doesn't add value whatsoever.

[@grantrithor]

@Evi1 M4chine If you haven't watched it yet, Not Just Bikes' series on strongtowns covers the root cause of quite frankly many issues with our car centric society. Adam summarizes this obsession specifically with his point about get rich quick schemes or losing fat in 30 days - for many people you can present this idea of how a fully automated traffic system could operate at an insane efficiency and thus cut down on a lot of traffic, and before you begin thinking critically of it the hypothetical does seem like it holds up. That's where the uninformed end their thinking on the subject, they don't get to the "begin thinking critically" part because for them that explanation is good enough. Despite the fact that such an 'efficient' system really only makes an intersection efficient (before even considering things like a pedestrian wanting to cross) but doesn't solve the issue with traffic being that there are cars on the road in very high volume (e.g. a highway which generally doesn't have stop signs or traffic lights). Like Adam says, people want to seek comfort in the idea that the solution to their problem is simple and doesn't require a lifestyle change, which we are guilty of it's only human, however once you get into public discourse you need to get out of your comfort zone and start accepting facts and forming real arguments. But the obsession with self driving cars is the tip of the iceberg, it's a complex problem that stems from city design (touched upon by Adam in this video), the automotive industry, and the petroleum industry. And corruption in the political system which allows it to continue.

[@pxlcowpxl6166]

Please do a video on synthetic fuels. Too many people fall for this bs and think that actually, soon ICE cars are gonna be powered with 100% renewable energy.

[@sirnikkel6746]

I always though on Synfuel as a backup military asset. In case of war and you do not have oil nor refineries, you can count on your Synfuel production to keep the war machine going.

[@vodkaboy]

"100% renewable energy" sure thing bud

[@jsrodman]

Biofuel has applications, but doesn't enable continuing with our curent level of wastefulness. Isn't gasoline the synthetic fuel?

[@electric7487]

Synthetic fuels will be necessary in the future, but they will not be viable if everyone drives, and they are not a viable substitute for good public transportation and better urban planning.

[@cyb3rklev872]

Renewable energy is not efficient enough, nuclear energy is da only wae

[@bottyhammer]

When you said Bullshit band-aid, i thought you'd said "bullshit bandit solutions" and frankly, I'm going to start using this.

[@mikealexander1935]

But we had this once. Before WWII residential neighborhoods were mixed residential and commercial. Intersections of major arterial streets generally were shopping districts. One of them would be close to you and the next closest maybe a mile away. Pretty much what you needed on an everyday basis would be there. Young people and old people lived there without cars getting around by walking, bus or bike. Families would have cars. Middle school kids could do their own shopping and operate fairly independently of their parents, meaning fewer cars driving them around. Retired folks might have a car, but rarely use it. This translates to traffic that flowed. But after the war they decided to build large all residential developments with fewer, much larger shopping centers spaced many miles apart. Teenagers hated living in these places and there was no place for older people who did not feel comfortable driving in heavy traffic. So now couldn't bike to grandma's apartment who had to get driven along with the family. Kids no longer have any agency. I don't think *people* wanted this. I think this was simply what was available so they took it. So I don't think America's car centric world was something people (i.e "the market") demanded, but rather something the developers and planner wanted to foist on us.

[@singularity___]

"j-j-just one more lane, please just one more lane bro please, just one more, it'll fix everything bro I promise please just one more lane" Recently drove through Houston TX and made this joke so many times. That city is the fucking epitome of car-brain

[@Ometecuhtli]

Just from looking at the size of Houston on a map and knowing how many inhabitants it has I knew something has gone really really wrong there ...

[@innercityprepper]

You do realize that asking us americans to make massive systemic changes is like asking a jetliner passing over you at 35,000 feet for a piece of toast with jam.

[@vodkaboy]

remember that time when American companies with support of gov banned the Concord from flying in most of the US ? I remember.

[@skeetsmcgrew3282]

Its the one issue I have with this channel. His solution is "destroy every city and install a 5 billion dollar rail line, make every business move, and take everyone's land in order to turn the landscape into a series of mini-cities." You can't ask someone to fly when they can't even crawl.

[@reginaldgreen9865]

@@skeetsmcgrew3282 But it’s okay for cities to do that with freeway expansions? Why’s one fine and the other isn’t

[@skeetsmcgrew3282]

@@reginaldgreen9865 temporarily making roads less efficient while you add lanes isn't the same as carving in a new gigantic piece of infrastructure. It requires building stops at convenient locations, connecting routes through the actual city, etc. Its a matter of scale. And if you live in America, you know people bitch about construction constantly, and more often than not it just makes their commute a little slower and more annoying. Imagine telling people you are ripping out half of the entire highway so it's harder for them to use their car.

[@Tom_Het]

@@skeetsmcgrew3282 lol except we literally did destroy our cities to rebuild them using stroads

[@NinjaOnANinja]

6:17 Is that happy birthday? That will be a 1 million dollar fine.