ADG Episode 223 - Street Fighter II

[@wdcain1]

I'm really glad I found out about your channel from the comment section of Stop Skeletons From Fighting video on portable SF games. You really have your own style that doesn't rely on anger like so many reviewers do. Well done.

[@Pixelmusement]

+wdcain1 Long ago in 2008 I tried to do that more "forced comedy" approach with ADG... it lasted two episodes which I think a grand total of maybe 8 people ever saw. ^_^;;;

[@GatorRay]

@@Pixelmusement Yeah. Forced positivity can be just as irritating to me as the opposite end of the spectrum (It's why I haven't watched a Stop Skeletons vid from the HVGN era in a LONG TIME)

[@BeyondTheScanlines]

Creative Materials. A name known to cause any European computer gaming fan of the early 90s to shudder in fear. Horrified, yet glad to see their "work" continue unabated on that DOS conversion. At least in the sense… that they're not magically going to improve one port over night or something ;) Super SF2 looks darn solid - and honestly, as someone who isn't really into fighting games (I always, always struggled with pulling off moves), I found your explanations of the timing and mechanics here great to listen to. I don't think I'll be grabbing my arcade sticks anytime soon for a game, but I can appreciate the intricate nature of fighting games a little more, and get why there's a lot of appreciation for 'em.

[@elimalinsky7069]

I remember getting a CD of Street Fighter II from a friend in 1997. It ran on Windows and was identical to the arcade version. Only years later I realized that the version I played on the PC had the executable run through an emulator of the arcade hardware and that it was essentially an unauthorized port. The emulaton ran surprisingly smooth on my brand new Pentium-200.

[@lilwyvern4]

So did you defeat Sheng Long and do you stand a chance?

[@michaelsriqui7898]

The fact that it uses only one or two buttons for attacks could indicate that this was a port of another home computer version like the amiga since those versions also only allowed one or two attack buttons because of the limited number buttons on old computer joysticks.

[@quarkbent9165]

"How bad could this one possibly be?" ... Shades of Bubsy dawned over me hearing this. To think we'd actually be grateful to have Rozner Labs do a port, yeah, that comparison was necessary to showcase how much better they did this time around.

[@GTXDash]

Roo? Oh, you mean Ryu. (Pronounced R-ee-oo. At least you didnt pronounce it as R-eye-oo) Nitpicks aside: I was really sad that this episode wasn't on the Super Street Fighter II TURBO version because...THAT PORT IS AMAZING! In fact it is so good that I actually prefer it over the Arcade version. Still, I'm glad that we got to see two other DOS ports of SFII in one video. So the aspect ratio issue with Super Street Fighter II I imaging was caused by the fact that the graphical assets were taken straight from the SNES version, where the graphics were rescaled to be (aspect ratio wise) correct for the SNES's 256x224 resolution.

[@Roge9]

there's billions of ways to pronounce characters names even the games pronounce it different ways depending on the iteration. I think they officially said it was something like "you" (silent r) but honestly who cares? There really is no official way to pronounce these video game character names, as long as people know who you are talking about it really doesn't matter lol

[@GTXDash]

Except that Ryu's name was pronounced the same across all Capcom made Street Fighter games.

[@Roge9]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIuWl52Hlpp7otU

[@Pixelmusement]

+Dash Careful with that logic because early videos games with foreign names and voicework commonly had mistakes in the pronunciations. For instance: The first time the Pokémon "Ponyta" was said aloud in a video game, it was pronounced PONE-EE-TAH. :P

[@Roge9]

on a random note, they pronounce ryu's name differently in marvel vs capcom 1

[@spartonberry]

I do recall the SNES version of Super Street Fighter II had altered music between the Japanese and American versions. Not sure if bug or what.

[@IllidanS4]

Two games in one video, nice!

[@MrPopoGod]

Alpha is a prequel series to Street Fighter II.

[@PumpkinStrikesBack]

"Don't facepalm just yet" :D

[@oz_jones]

"Wait, there's more!"

[@CypressDahlia]

"Ah it can't be that bad" > Immediate ear destruction

[@yesticles]

I remember when my dad brought home a big box copy of the 1992 port, I was so excited. Spent a whole two years stuck with THAT as my only version of Street Fighter II until I got a Genesis for Christmas along with a copy of Special Champion Edition. Those were hard times

[@oz_jones]

"You merely adopted the port. I was born in it, molded by it."

[@SmeddyTooBestChannel]

Next game's gotta be Mortal Kombat.

[@SeriusSim]

First thing that came to mind, but it seems so obvious that I wonder if there's a twist

[@NoobixCube]

When I was a kid, I had a weird Chinese bootleg of Street Fighter 2. In searching for it, for nostalgia purposes, I've found plenty of other similar bootlegs, but not precisely the same one. Mine had Terry from King of Fighters as a fighter named "Dan", instead of Balrog, Blanka and Guile's names were switched, too. It, by default, allowed mirror matches, but player two's character didn't get a different costume, but was instead completely green, hair, skin, clothes, everything. I've found numerous bootlegs that had some of these things, but not all of them together.

[@NoobixCube]

Pretty sure the prolific bootleg scene was a response to the terrible official SF2 port. A lot of the bootlegs were extremely smooth, and reproduced the six button gameplay from the arcade.

[@Sp00kyFox]

blocking while crouching does not only allow you to charge boom with Guile but also his flash kick. which makes him such a strong defensive character. it's really hard to approach a good Guile player. the SF Alpha series is pretty much its own thing. I highly recommend to check it out sometime. especially the home version of Alpha 3 which has a unique and enjoyable World Tour mode where you do missions and level up your character. you mentioned you played SF4. would be interested in what you think about SF5. well maybe you make a AWG episode in 20 years about it xD

[@Pixelmusement]

+Sp00kyFox Haven't played SF5 yet. I probably will eventually. :B

[@NoneeLlama]

I was hoping you would also cover the korean homebrew version (also known as SFLIU).

[@Pixelmusement]

+NoneeLlama That sounds like it might be outside the scope of ADG, but good to know it exists! :B

[@DookNookim]

When you start Street Fighter II as SF2.EXE /help it shows that it supports a 1024x768x256 mode.

[@zirkoni42]

Yeah, it runs with huge black borders around the screen but the actual game area is still 320x200.

[@Pixelmusement]

+DookNookim ...after testing that out I have to wonder what is even the point of that? It changes the aspect ratio, sure, but makes it super tiny! D:

[@DookNookim]

It's possible to enable mirror matches in Street Fighter II by entering a cheat code. Not a lot of people know that. I got a video about it on my channel. The game tells you you've entered the cheat code right by flashing all the black pixels red. Usually only the KO-sign flashes. But when you run it in 1024x768x256 the huge black borders also flash.

[@MrDowntemp0]

Would love to hear if Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo for Dos is more like the good one, or the bad one

[@Pixelmusement]

I've heard it's more like the good one. No firsthand experience though. :B

[@caseytwill]

Super Turbo for DOS was really good. Not arcade perfect, but still pretty accurate.

[@EdmondDantes224]

I've heard that there's NEVER been a completely arcade-perfect port of Super Turbo. Even the one on the Capcom Classics Collections apparently has some glitch where the game randomly speeds up. The closest we ever got, apparently, was this hard to find Dreamcast port... or MAME I guess. That kind of stuff tends to only matter to the kind of people who play tournaments (and Super Turbo is apparently still played at tournaments). So... you're good with Ryu but not with Ken, who is very similar?

[@Pixelmusement]

+Jispy Moe Dantes Slightly better with Ryu because of his supers and ultras and because Ken focuses more on the Dragon Punch which is a move I'm not as good at performing. :B

[@SaadAzim]

A minor nitpick, but that map at 23:27. -_-'

[@JomasterTheSecond]

Also the Alpha games are technically prequel-sequels to the original Street Fighter and II. Alpha 3 Max is pretty much the best of the games. Massive amounts of characters and slick fighting. Great game.

[@StanislaoMoulinsky79]

A funny thing regarding the PC port of SSF2 is that it was released AFTER the excellent port of Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo (published by Gametek). What was Capcom thinking?

[@Pixelmusement]

+Stanislao Moulinsky Given how Rozner Labs worked, it may not have actually been Capcom's idea. I wouldn't be surprised if they did the port without permission, then went to Capcom with the finished product and Capcom figured, "Hey, more stuff to sell equals more money!" That's just a guess. It's also possible Capcom expected both the Mega Man X and Super Street Fighter II DOS ports to be done sooner. :P

[@DookNookim]

In Street Fighter II's defense: There aren't many fighting games with big animated characters that run on a 286. Street Fighter II, Body Blows and Sango Fighter come to mind.

[@rodrigosebastianpagano8198]

Body Blows is a masterpiece compared to this awful port of Street FighterII. God, the korean bootlegs are better.

[@DookNookim]

Do the korean bootlegs run on a 286?

[@rodrigosebastianpagano8198]

DookNookim Probably

[@intel386DX]

this run on 286? WoW but I am sure that it is terribly slow

[@musicotaku666]

enjoying your videos buddy! keep it up, but please add a HP/high pass filter ;). i can give u tips.

[@ironchef3500]

Can you force higher res? Or is render resolution stuck?

[@CherryPixelBun]

Hold up How does SF3 3rd Strike not hold up now? I agree about 2 but 3 is far more advanced than the later games.

[@Pixelmusement]

+W. Durrsly Oh, it's not that it doesn't hold up, SF3 is amazing, but it's hard to go back to once you've adapted to SF4. :P

[@UltromanTheTacoman]

These names are so ridiculous. No joke, my Sega Megadrive II included the game using the title: Super Street Fighter II Turbo S.E. (as in Special Edition). I cannot find any info on this version, but I guess it might just have been a SSF2T relabeled to distinguish it as a bundled game (still came in a box, though). I think it was missing T-hawk and Cammy.

[@Mr.madmight266]

I don't mind the use of MIDIs as long as the MIDIs themselves are decently composed,but sadly that's clearly not the case here. They really needed a decent composer,or maybe ask Capcom for the MIDIs of the X68000 version of SSF2,but i guess they didn't know about that,or maybe Capcom wouldn't have allowed access to that. As for the regular DOS SF2,i hated it when i played it,and i only came back to it to see how the music sounds with MT-32.

[@TheMoogleMaster]

Ever going to the DOS port of THE Street Fighter II, if you ever get it. Oh wait you have it and done. :)

[@Haltedboy]

I suppose the next video will test your might eh Gemini?

[@yuriythebest]

I can see why they left out the "Round 1- fight!" voice - I bet someone thought it sounded annoying, which it did - it needs to sound much deeper/tougher

[@GTXDash]

It's funny that you said that because the announcer in SFII is also the voice of Guile. But in the original SFII his voice was deeper, and in turn, Guile's voice was deeper as well. But for some reason they changed it in Super Street Fighter II. And now both the announcer and Guile have a high voice.

[@Tempora158]

It is the lack of enough audio RAM in the SNES' Sony sound chip (only 64KB to store the samples/program/composition) that Capcom left out the "Round 1 - Fight!"; Capcom couldn't get the announcer and the fight sounds to fit in one loading. Want to know what happens if they did include the "Round 1 - Fight!" voices? Play the SNES version of Street Fighter Alpha 2, where the game is constantly loading and unloading the announcer and the fight sounds at the beginning and end of each round.

[@JimLeonard]

Why do you say in the beginning of the video that this DOS version is a port of the SNES conversion? What is it about the DOS version indicated this?

[@Pixelmusement]

+Jim Leonard Absolutely identical graphics and timing, which I can tell because I've owned the SNES version of Super Street Fighter II since childhood. ;)

[@JimLeonard]

Pixelmusement Right, but why do you think one was ported from the other? Why couldn't the both of them have been ported at the same time from the same source set of assets provided by CAPCOM? It seems a leap, especially given the drastic technological differences between the SNES and x86+VGA. The background is stretched in the DOS version, not so in the SNES version. And you noted in the video that the SNES version lacked audio that the DOS version provided. My point is that, just because the graphics are the same, doesn't mean one codebase was ported from another codebase.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Jim Leonard Possible... though the DOS port was late on the scene compared to the SNES version and follows in the trail of the DOS Mega Man X port done by the same guys, which was absolutely an SNES to DOS conversion, so I think to save time, since they already had experience porting one SNES game, they would've done that to speed things along. That's an assumption, but if you look at screenshots of ALL other SSF2 ports, the only one which matches up perfectly with the DOS port is the SNES port. One thing's for sure, regardless of anything, it's clear they both use identical assets which they share with none of the other ports. :B

[@DookNookim]

Not only does the EXE contain "LICENSED BY NINTENDO", it also contains "This Game Pack is not designed for use with your Super Nintendo Entertainment System. (PAL)".

[@JimLeonard]

Good catch; the ROM is included in the .exe as a source for the assets. That is not the same thing as porting the game from one system to another. The SNES version was written in 65816 assembler, the DOS port is written for 32-bit protected-mode using Watcom C. If you want to say the graphics came from the SNES, sure.

[@EdmondDantes224]

I'm afraid I missed my chance to submit a guess.... internet issues mean I didn't even get to WATCH this episode until tonight.

[@Carstein666]

Surprisingly, it looks like SF2 has one advantage over the Super version: the text in arenas are much easier to read. At least, in Zangief arena I barely could comprehend what it says but had not problem reading it in the SF2 version.

[@Kwad_rat]

So... Next week you'r doing Mortal Kombat?

[@teknokrat1]

People who arent old enough to appreciate cartridge size limitations vs cd are amusing... the missing sounds, and animations, by the way, in the snes version arent bugs, lol... they were left out to save space.

[@Pixelmusement]

+teknokrat1 I never said anything about animations... But that makes sense that the announcer sound effects may not have fit on the cartridge, although another theory is that the SNES audio RAM wasn't large enough to properly accommodate them without causing loading delays. Also, I'm 34 so I'm well aware of how little space old stuff has, like the Atari 2600 only having 128 BYTES of RAM! (I once had a calculator watch with more memory than that!)

[@teknokrat1]

Pixelmusement these are not theories. It was cut to save space. Loading times, seriously?

[@Pixelmusement]

+teknokrat1 Yes, seriously. Think about this for a second: The SNES can't play sound effects directly from the ROM cart because of how memory access to the carts work, so it has 64 KB of dedicated audio RAM to handle this. Sounds need to be loaded into that RAM to play them back. This load operation is quick, but it can't be done parallel, so any attempt to load new sounds is going to pause the game action for a split-second and likely interrupt any other sound going on in that moment. If Super Street Fighter II is using ALL of that audio RAM for game sounds and has no room left for the announcer, then switching from the announcer to game sounds right after saying "FIGHT!" would cause a "hiccup" in the gameplay where everything just STOPS for a fraction of a second, graphics, sound, music, everything, and it would likely be extremely jarring to the player. In fact, if you play the SNES version of the game, there IS a hiccup like this when the winner is announced at the end of a round, but there's no music or sound playing at that moment and the player can't act either, so the player is far less likely to notice this happening! :o

[@teknokrat1]

Pixelmusement nice try, but youre not talking your way out of this one. Give me the shovel and stop digging yourself deeper. I know what youre talking about but this is not what happened here. Also, show the code that proves this is from the snes rom in your video before you just say that to the whole world. Im quite skeptical of that frankly. The pc cd-rom versions of street fighter were renowned for being great arcade ports, not conversions of snes ports. The snes carts were their own thing. The sprites are different, the sound effects and music are different, and as i mentioned, the frames of animation are fewer in the snes games.

[@Pixelmusement]

+teknokrat1 Uh... the sprites are IDENTICAL between the SNES and DOS ports of Super Street Fighter II and don't match up with any of the other ports. Even the backgrounds are identical, although they've been stretched in the DOS port for whatever reason. Plus, this came from Rozner Labs hot on the heels of their port of Mega Man X to DOS, so it makes sense they already had the tools and code ready to do another SNES to DOS port.

[@KeeperBvK2]

As always, another really fun video. Both entertaining and informative! However, Ryu is not pronounced "Roo". ;)

[@Pixelmusement]

+Burkhart von Klitzing Pronouncing "Ryu" properly is hard. "RYE-YOU" is wrong, "REE-YOU" is closer but still not right, and "ROO" is trying too hard to get it right, as the correct way to say his name is between those last two examples. :P

[@KeeperBvK2]

I am aware of how it's pronounced properly. I studied Chinese and Japanese at university and work at a Japanese company. ;) It's basically just "You" with an additional "R" at the beginning. "R-You". Not "Are-You", but simple the letter R (imagine saying "rice" and leaving out the "ice") and then you. In Japanese, the pronounciation of the letter R also is somewhere between R and L, but that would be going too far here. ;)

[@Pixelmusement]

+Burkhart von Klitzing Yup! Doesn't negate the fact that saying it is hard when you're unpracticed.! :P

[@KeeperBvK2]

@@Pixelmusement Sure, but that in turn doesn't negate the fact that you said it wrong, I told you how to do it properly, and usually people just accept that in such a case instead of continuing to argue. ;) You know, you could either reply by saying that you'll try to remember this in order to do it right from now on, you could thank the person pointing out your mistake...or apparently you can just continue to argue again. Don't get me wrong: I've watched your videos ever before you hit youtube, so I gotta be liking them. But somebody else had already pointed out that your way of dealing with a situation when somebody points out that you're making a mistake isn't always the best and can rub people the wrong way. Just a kind advice.

[@Konsker]

love the game cover of super street fighter 2

[@fifaworldcup1994]

It is... Mortal Kombat?

[@Stormy2142]

who's this Roo he keeps mentioning?

[@Pixelmusement]

+Edmo Suassuna "Ryu" is surprisingly hard to pronounce properly... I could just say RHY-YOU or REE-YOU like some people but those aren't correct either. :P

[@intel386DX]

thi gave 1:1 graphics versus original arcade like Megaman X DOS port :) but in your video the pixels are hmm somehow not right notice the background figures in the beginning. WoW but this street fight 2 "origina" DOS port are with perfect pixels, not broken like in the later version

[@EdmondDantes224]

Its been years and even I've already commented on this video, but it still shocks me there's not a comment here getting onto you for the way you pronounced Ryu's name. Granted, "Roo" is what it sounds like the game itself says on 16-bit hardware, and I remember that being a common misconception when I was in school. EDIT: Actually sometimes it sounds like you are saying "Ryu" and its just sounding like "Roo" for whatever reason. I have the feeling we've had this discussion before but it was years ago.

[@Pixelmusement]

Perhaps? It's a tough name to pronounce right because it's somewhere between "ROO" and "REE-YOU" and I'm not experienced enough with the language to get it right every time. :P

[@zintosion]

Balrog blanka and zangief is probably the characters that i uses most.

[@Pixelmusement]

+zintosion Then your fighting style is the EXACT opposite of mine! 8D

[@_JPlays_]

Has to be Mortal Kombat for the next one

[@ralfvanbogaert3451]

This is actually a straight port of the SNES version of Super Street Fighter II, with lower resolution graphics and reduced animation and everything. What's baffling is that this came out *after* Eurocom's almost arcade perfect port of Super Street Fighter II Turbo.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Ralf Van Bogaert The graphics are the exact same resolution, it just looks reduced because of the difference in display resolution. Different story for the non-Super port though. :P

[@TheOnlyToblin]

Oh God. I remember seeing this in a local candy store for like a dollar back when I was a teenager. Bought it because I thought SF2 on PC would be awesome. I couldn't understand why it was so cheap. Until I installed it. Good grief.

[@Theshadowpoison]

Eh eh, i had the bad version of SF2. It was published by Futura Games in Italy. It was such a mess. One time i had one hell of a strange bug on my original Pentium machine, with half of the screen only, characters going crazy fast and the music totally out of control. That was the last time i ever had the game on my PC. I even lost the floppies it came with. Only one guy is selling this game for about 40 euros.

[@AmysFantasies]

You talked about not being able to find any prices for Street Fighter II for the PC? Well while I was browsing around on eBay UK I managed to find a big box copy, on floppy disk with manual. Despite being labelled as both "VGC" (very good condition) and "RARE", the seller only wanted £15 including delivery for it. So I now own this piece of crap. :)

[@Pixelmusement]

+AmysFantasies That seems a reasonable price for something that's both rare but also low demand. :B

[@valcliffb8558]

Street Fighter 2 Rainbow Edition!

[@ironchef3500]

Aside from ratio it looks nice

[@GTXDash]

That's what happens when you do a PC port of the SNES version. the SNES's 256 horizontal resolution makes the graphics more squashed when displayed back at 320. This is why the garbage dos port of the original SFII looks better because they got the sprites from the arcade version.

[@DanielMonteiroNit]

the SF2 doesn't even have the 3D floor!

[@Roobar_Plays]

The next game should be Mortal Kombat of course.

[@JomasterTheSecond]

BAIT AND SWITCH! >:O

[@Pixelmusement]

+Jomaster The Second ...before switching back. ;)

[@Roge9]

Going to have to disagree with you on the modern Street fighters being better. Street Fighter 2 hyper fighting is considered by many the best street fighter game. The game had good balance, simple yet deep mechanics and got the whole "easy to pick up, hard to master" down perfectly. The problem with a lot of street fighter titles that came out afterwords was how poorly implemented some of the new mechanics were (ie parrying in sf3 making fireballs garbage, sf4 new DP input motions making them too easy which causes issues etc.) I could go on.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Roge9 Subscribe for random vids! I probably could have clarified this better in the video, but I was speaking in terms that it's better for new players to start with a modern game than starting with an older one. Veteran players are very likely to settle on a particular release they like the most and that's totally OK too; but it means you're probably not looking to get any other versions, regardless of how old or new they are. ;)

[@Roge9]

fair enough :>

[@gibbeynator]

Why are Dhalsim and Balrog white?

[@cloakedthargoid]

Putting the horrible SF2 port aside, SSF2 is quite an OK DOS port, as shown in this video, but SSF2T is miles better - almost (not quite) Arcade perfect and with an amazing redbook soundtrack (if you get the CD version). Suffers from the same issue that the DOS port of Mortal Kombat - slightly lower resolution and somewhat wrong aspect ratio compared to the arcade.

[@JoeBee9]

I had the original Street Fighter II as a kid but not by itself; it was on the disc that came with the first game as well as Mega Man 1 and 3 for DOS; can't believe I actually beat the latter two; it was an awful bastardized version of Mega Man.

[@DukeNukem2417]

Mortal Kombat. Has to be.

[@DanielMonteiroNit]

Yeah, the next game is MK1

[@AriaMohtadiHaghighi]

Alpha 2 is the best imo.

[@gnntech]

Super Street Fighter II is a great port for the PC. The one you are looking for is the original Street Fighter II for the PC. Now that is a TERRIBLE port of that game.

[@Pixelmusement]

+Daniel Camputaro Watch a little further into the video... ;)

[@summerlaverdure]

old street fighters aren't worth playing? ok 🧀🧀🧀

[@Pixelmusement]

+Sine Nomine It's not that they're not worth playing, but that for people who've never played a Street Fighter game it's better to start with a more modern one. I probably should've clarified that better. ^_^;