Top 5 things I wish I knew before starting the cello

Here are 5 things I wish I had known before starting the cello as an adult. Everything from how to practice to what to focus on during your journey. If you're relatively new to playing the cello, I guarantee that these tips will help you learn at a faster rate and enjoy yourself more as you get to know this wonderful instrument.
Here is the ear training tool I mention in the video: www.musictheory.net/exercises...
♫ LEARN MORE ABOUT GETTING THE ULTIMATE START ON CELLO:
Cello in 30 Days Course: www.adultcello.com/courses
Billy Tobenkin is a Los Angeles-based cellist who specializes in teaching adult learners. As a professional cellist who started playing the cello from scratch at 25, he is in a unique position to help others, like him, who found the cello later in life. He has developed strategies from his own musical journey to accelerate the learning process, and he is here to share them with you.
Please contact him at [e-mail] with any questions or comments! Or visit adultcello.com

[@MsTreker54]

I just started the cello at age 67 and I am determined to play Bach in the next 5yrs! Thank you for your tips.

[@adultcello]

My pleasure, and congrats on starting your cello journey!

[@davidsanme1715]

Saludos desde México. Muy bien video. Gracias tengo 66 años y estoy entusiasmado aprendiendo este bello instrumento

[@whatsinterestingis]

I'm starting at 37! Just bought my first cello.

[@hifijohn]

im 62 and bought my first cello.

[@patriotgirlprepper8883]

Thank you for posting this. I’m in my 50s and this encourages me to start 😊

[@0butterflyfly]

I have been playing piano for my whole life and did my music degree 20 years ago. After that, I was busy with life and work. I have lost joy and passion about music. Fast forward, I decided to take cello lessons a few months ago. During lessons, I feel like it bring me back to the time when I was in music college. It reminds me playing music is the greatest time and joy in my life. Now playing cello is the best moment of the days.

[@eleanorwcarmany8922]

I've had a 200 yr old cello for the past 45 yrs... (Purchased from The Violin Shop in Albuquerque, New Mexico). But life interfered with taking lessons. NOW, at 86, I'm REALLY MOTIVATED TO HUG MY CELLO AGAIN. I recall watching a Master Class for especially talented kids while on vacation at Sedona. The Master asked the cutest little 8 or 9 yr old girl, "Do you love your cello?" She nodded "Yes." He asked her again, "Do you REALLY LOVE your cello?". She timidly answered "Yes," again. He then said, "Then HUG your cello. REALLY HUG your cello. Let it KNOW how much you REALLY LOVE it!" And that was the end of the lesson. After which he gave HER a big hug. I'll never forget that lesson! "I ALLOW MYSELF THE FREEDOM, I GIVE MYSELF THE RIGHT........" FINALLY!!! IT'S ABOUT TIME!!! "IF NOT NOW, WHEN?"

[@elinemadeleine]

I started playing the cello at age 30. My first teacher was very kind, but I did n it really progress. I switched to a different teacher during Covid, and even though the lessons were online, I’ve made incredible progress in the last four months or so. Her approach is so different, and it seems to be working really well. Anyone who is thinking about starting as an adult, do it! You might have to put in a year before you will be able to really play songs that you like, but who cares? ✨

[@adultcello]

That's fantastic news, I'm thrilled you're experiencing rapid progress! Finding the right teacher at the right time can make all the difference! Thanks for your message!

[@jessipeculiar]

Did you have any prior knowledge of music before you started? Im 29 and have absolutely ZERO knowledge or experience with musical instruments and I am just dying to get my hands on a cello. People tell me I should rather start with guitar or piano but I dont know if thats something I should consider

[@MysticalDragon73]

@@jessipeculiar im kinda in the same boat. I played saxophone 32 years ago so have forgotten anything I knew about music. I often played by ear. TBH I think im better off not remembering anything. Did you get a cello?

[@nicolasmith1460]

I started at 40 yrs. 17 later … I’ve played in many orchestras and concerts…. But knowing this would have helped me Enormously …

[@emilyalexander5428]

I am 15 and can play piano, ukulele and the flute. I’ve been wanting to learn more instruments so I am going to rent a cello! I’m excited to learn it!

[@18music18]

KZbin just recommended this to me. I am also an adult cello learner. Started at 22, now preparing to take my grade 8 at 27. Very rarely do we hear stories of people who started as an adult and became good. I am very pleased to find one here and looking forward to seeing where I'll be after another 5 years too!

[@adultcello]

Thanks so much for your message, it's wonderful to hear from another passionate cellist who found the instrument a bit later than average! It is amazing to think that 5 years from now you will have literally doubled the amount of time you've been playing the instrument...there's no limit to what's possible! Best wishes and thanks again for writing!

[@milagrotorres5252]

Keep up the positive vibe! Woohoo. Nice to know I'm not alone in the adult learning cello thing! 🎉🎉🎉

[@18music18]

You are definitely not alone! And I just found out a week ago that I passed my grade 8 cello so it's definitely possible as an adult 😁

[@evagreub1908]

This is very spezial, that so many people starts Cello in an advanced age. I startet with 77j and play now for 2 years with very much pleasure. I found a teacher who is given me a lot of confidence and motivation. I enjoy every day having time to do my exercises.

[@ospreyish]

These all make sense. I am just starting at 74!

[@Collider6]

As an adult who just started learning cello, thank you for this video.

[@adultcello]

My pleasure, and congrats on starting your journey!

[@photisserie]

Very encouraging and validating. I have had many hours of music lessons (piano, violin, guitar) from the parental "observation deck", and have had a long-standing aspiration to play cello. Now (at 60+) I have the opportunity to do so. Thanks again for focussing on these concepts. I am encouraged.

[@amtalbot3776]

While my adult learning journey may not be the cello, it's the viola da gamba, I believe many of these tips will be super useful. Thanks so much!

[@adultcello]

Viola da gamba, that is so cool! I love the Bach sonatas for viola da gamba, what a great choice of instrument! Thanks for your message

[@djdavis6837]

Where did you find one? I've been wanting to find one to play

[@amtalbot3776]

@@djdavis6837 Sorry for the late reply! I actually got mine used off of eBay, which took awhile due to what is available and doing research ahead of time. eBay can be tricky so always check the seller. I would avoid the Song brand listings, they will not be setup/made correctly. What I would suggest is to see if you have a Viola Da Gamba society. North America has one and I think also the UK. They have instruments you can rent as long as your a member. Sometimes members also list used ones for sale. If your in the U.S, Charlie Ogle has new ones for sale at a reasonable price. Still not cheap. Patience is key to getting one. Took me a year before I found a suitable bass viol and a year for a local teacher. Lol! Best of luck!

[@NellasxElensar]

As a 29-year-old who's about to start learning cello next week... a tremendous thank you! The first pointer made me sigh with relief because I play the piano by ear so that should be helpful! Will definitely keep these pointers in mind, and come back whenever I need a reminder :)

[@adultcello]

Thanks so much for your message and congrats on getting started soon! Piano definitely provides a wonderful foundation for starting the cello, I think you're in great shape to get going!

[@simonwalton]

I literally searched for this video title a week ago! Thanks so much! I’ve always wanted an adult learners perspective on things they wish they’d done differently.

[@adultcello]

Thanks so much, and thanks for your comment!

[@harryyeager4887]

I just today acquired my first cello. I got it at a second hand store. I purchased a acoustic That is about 20 years old, about 2 months ago for $45, I traded that guitar for the cello plus $25. He told me it was a cheap cello, and I figured it may have a few dings/scratches,etc. I kinda got excited when he took it out of the case and seen it had never been set up or played. It looks beautiful. The sound post is rattling around inside, so I’ll have to set that also. For $70.00 , it’s a steal. With KZbin to Learn set up, and videos like yours, I have new challenges to master and the learning tools to help me. I just turned 70 this week. Your videos will help me tremendously. Thank you.

[@ELIAHAVAH]

Started (re-)learning cello last summer at 31, lol. I have definitely independently discovered a couple of these tips myself - the slow practice one especially; starting practicing a piece at 1/2 tempo (or even 1/4 if partic difficult), then slowly ramping up tempo by a few b/min after each successful attempt, def helped overwhelming mountainous pieces become much easier slopes to conquer. Additionally, while it may seem obvious, I would have put in *both* this video and the other one, the point about needing to make sure to be practicing a lot and practicing regularly. I said re-learning, above, because technically I did take cello in middle school, but completely sucked and dropped out. Going back to my old materials, I found a practice log in my book, that revealed the culprit- I had been barely practicing at all! I recently got to ask a successful musician how much he was practicing his instrument when he was first starting to get good, and he said *20 h/week*! So one of the hardest but most important things for me has been to really try to arrange my schedule to be able to get more practice hours in. It's really like at least a half-time job. However, this video and your other one about common mistakes to avoid both pointed out something to me that I had been neglecting - *bow hand focus, and accompanying note quality.* Like you, I've been sort of seeing mastering the strict note sequences and rhythm as more important than quality, and quality as something I would just have to naturally acquire after-the-fact over time. But you are right that getting those good quality notes is emotionally satisfying; and practicing good quality notes is also precisely how you get better at performing them in the first place! So I think I am going to slow down my exercises per day, and raise my interior “grading” standard from B+/A- (merely hitting all notes correctly) to a more solid A (hitting correctly, *and* with good quality). Thank you for the advice! You have a really relaxing and inviting demeanor for a teacher, BTW. 🙂

[@barbro-sfi-lunis6754]

Especially that it's not a steady progress resonated with me. Some days I am pretty content but other days I almost feel it's going in the other direction. Interesting to hear that others experience the same thing. I will journey on.

[@stephanieladeinde3224]

You are a true inspiration .this is encouraging thank you for sharing

[@nickiet6913]

Thank you for making these geared towards adults! I pick up my rental tomorrow and its nice to feels like there's an online support for being the super awkward mom in her 30's squeaking away for the first time! It's uncomfortable to navigate and so wonderful to have support in just wanting to learn to play cello for the sake of making lovely music! Some of us badly need this confidence boost!!!

[@adultcello]

It's my pleasure! I remember feeling the same way, and it definitely would have helped to know that one can achieve their goals even if they get off to a late start. Congrats on starting your cello journey!

[@slugmuffin6935]

When I was learning guitar my teacher would always say practice doesn't make perfect perfect practice makes perfect

[@stephenshoihet2590]

i always tell people not to practice their mistakes :-) practices makes permanent.

[@sheenastevens9059]

Just got one and can't wait to put this into practice

[@mellissadalby1402]

You are 100% correct (as I have repeated to my guitar students) slow = fast (but you need to really put in the work and be PATIENT with yourself.

[@hellinast.louis-bicar4954]

Thanks for the great advice....I really appreciate hearing that it is important to practice slowly!

[@Wolfythereviewer]

Honestly this is great advice for any instrument! I want to learn an instrument, but I'm facing a big internal debate on what I want to learn, but this is good advice before I start anything.

[@ghibligirl2001]

I started viola about 2 months ago at 22! I played violin a bit as a kid and I play piano, so I wasn't starting from zero, but it's still very fun and challenging! Great video :-)

[@eggysando]

Awesome tips! This is a huge help. I tried slow pace for a piece that I'm struggling a lot with and I was able to play without stressing out about upcoming tricky notes, because I knew I could handle it at that pace. It's hard for me to be disciplined enough to keep practicing slowly. It was like I'm fighting every urge to just go at normal pace but it's so worth it.

[@adultcello]

Hi! I'm so glad you found it helpful! I totally agree, the slow practice definitely requires a lot of discipline but man does it feel good to play through a passage accurately and comfortably! Thanks so much for your comment!

[@DCND06]

Extremely helpful advice. I’ve followed a number of your uploads and found them very useful as an adult learner. Thank you Billy from one of your followers in England. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@adultcello]

My pleasure, and thank you so much for your comment!

[@colettechampine2531]

I so appreciate all of your tips and your willingness to share nuggets of knowledge based on your own experiences. I am 39 and just started playing cello only a few weeks ago. Your videos have been invaluable, and helped me to not be so hard on myself for what seems like slow progress.

[@adultcello]

Hi! I'm so glad to hear that you find my videos helpful, thanks so much for your message! Cello is such a long, wonderful journey, and for most people the toughest part is right at the start, so don't worry, it's totally worth the work!

[@sraztec01]

thank you so much for your advice I agree with your tips.

[@pakhoy8648]

Always good advice , I'm gonna focus on the slow practise this week!

[@adultcello]

Awesome! Have fun with it and happy practicing!

[@zorank7513]

this is all great, thank you very much

[@pamelandumbi]

That is a beautiful cello display/stand in the back!

[@hayesdabney]

Great! My daughter is learning cello, and I think she will benefit from this advice, too!

[@kitsanyew9676]

Great tips! Will definitely try slow practice and see how things go. Thank you very much ^^

[@adultcello]

My pleasure! Thanks so much for your message!

[@Emily-ig2bo]

Thank youuu! I played for a semester in HS and I fell in love with the cello. I’m now 25 and picked it up again 😭

[@olgakainara8778]

Thank you!!! You're inspiring me) I just started playing the cello at 33)

[@adultcello]

Thank you so much for your message, that means so much to me to read! :)

[@ms-iz9iy]

i used to play when I was a kid, tempted to get back into it.

[@pietro1801]

We're not in the same boat: we're about the same age, but I'm just considering starting on bass guitar and (later on, when I can afford the correct beast) a double bass. I always thought I was too old to get past the "play root notes in rock songs" stage. I don't aim to be a virtuoso, but I do aim to become good. Thanks for the inspiration and the tips!

[@adultcello]

Thanks so much for your message! It really inspires me to hear about another adult learner setting the bar high and getting after it; bass is such a great instrument, great choice!

[@Dandelion560]

Thank you very much for sharing this🍻

[@JediMonk1111]

Thank you

[@joelruiz2612]

I'm so glad I found this channel! I just started learning two months ago, and I'm in my mid 40s with very little musical training. This instrument makes me so happy. Can I ask, do you have a recommended order to watch your videos? As a new subscriber the number of videos is overwhelming. Thanks!

[@jadebethj4807]

I just subscribed. I get my cello tomorrow. Ii can't wait. I'm hoping that it'll help me learn to relax. I played the piano when i was a kid and the guitar in hs (not well lol). Bit I'm so happy. and hope I can learn and not try to 'perfect'

[@mjgarratt]

I’m about 20 weeks into learning cello at 45yo, with the slight advantage of having played mandolin, which is also tuned in fifths, for 35 of those (reading music is still new to me though). Some great tips here, I made quick progress initially but my over confidence is now replaced with a realisation of the hard work I have ahead of me if I want to play really well… especially on mastering the bow.

[@adultcello]

35 years of mandolin is definitely an advantage (and such a cool instrument in its own right!). Thanks so much for your comment and I hope you continue to enjoy your journey with the cello!

[@jljones4839]

I am fortunate in that Ice played piano and violin since I was small. Cello is such a long reach for the left hand and the bow requires much more pressure, I love the deep voice it has though. I started because my quartets cellist moved away and since I could read bass clef (piano), I was the better choice I have played for about 17 years, and I am still the cellist you get until the real cello player shows up, then I move to violin. I am trying to improve and become more of a soloist. The bow arm gives me more trouble with both cello and violin, like you mentioned.

[@crowcianciola2266]

point six: does your teacher have amazing hair like YOu do? Kuz, your hair looks so good right now.

[@mikkideleon6735]

Guitar teacher was great in 1973. Hoping to find such a mentor for cello

[@JUDYACST]

Also, my natural inclination being a left-handed person that does a lot of things right handed, is to get past my natural inclination of holding the bow with my left hand. I used to weld back in the day and I could not weld left handed. Thank you for all your information!

[@TyreII]

Thanks for the video! Found an ok teacher ... hard to work with sometimes... its me. :)

[@sarys73]

I've always wanted to try cello. I want to know what it sounds like and what that sweet deep sound feels like as you play. I just never had the extra money to throw at something I most likely will give up on a few days later. If anyone in comments read this and live is Port Saint Lucie, msg me, I would love to swing by to hear you play once. ty

[@colesquiteplace5618]

There are no cello teachers where I live... KZbin Grit and this Guy's videos are gonna make me a pro ....( Eventually)

[@rac_nohj]

Thank you for advice. Today I bought my Cello. What book do you recommend for start practicing and learning? or better if your channel had a previous video, please send me a link... Thanks in advance.

[@H-DA]

I just ordered a cello 🙃 I'm so excited. I'm 29 and I have played guitar and tin whistle as a teen. Also I play piano for some month, so I know the basics about music theory already. I originally wanted to learn the violin but realized I really hate it's high pich and it's so uncomfortable because of my long neck and small shoulders. I can't play the e string, it hurts my ears like a circular saw, so I thought about getting the viola but I like the cello more 🙃

[@adultcello]

Congrats on ordering your first cello and starting your journey! Very exciting :)

[@AlexDidi11112222]

How is it going for you now?

[@eleanorwcarmany8922]

That's exactly the way I felt at 8 yrs of age when some adults wanted me to learn to play the violin. It jarred my whole nervous system. Ha! But the cello? Aaaahhh! So soothing - yet envigorating. It always renews my spirit.

[@florencepolfliet836]

I'm planning on getting a cello as a complete beginner (I'm 29 now) I already know how to play the piano, but always wanted to learn how to play the violin or cello. You convinced me to choose the cello! Any great books you'd recommend me as a cello beginner?

[@adultcello]

I'm so glad to hear that you've decided to start your cello journey, that's wonderful! One book I really enjoyed that centers around string playing and what it's like to be in a professional chamber music ensemble was Indivisble by Four by Arnold Steinhardt. He was the first violinist of the Guarneri String Quartet for decades. Hope you enjoy it!

[@aspenx1304]

Great tips. I'm 49 and I feel so awkward 🙃

[@adultcello]

Thanks so much! I know exactly what you mean :D

[@IslandTides]

Dang. I absolutely cannot afford lessons...a teacher... I'm stuck learning through KZbin ...Never played anything before, can't read music, but I do have a good ear.... :) already have a 1/2 size cello (I live in a tiny 1 room bachelor so its about the only size I have room for...)

[@adultcellolearner4574]

This video is gold dust! All 5 points are so so accurate. I was lucky enough to land with a fantastic teacher on my second try. All adult learners should watch this!

[@adultcello]

Thank you so much, I really appreciate it!!

[@besthobbit]

Going slower was always the hardest thing for me when practicing trumpet in high school. My band director was always telling me to slow down haha.

[@pegschr]

Any suggestions for bow hold grips or something as I broke my pointer finger some time ago and it is very painful to hold the cello bow. I have a rubber grip on it now but it doesn't seem to be enough to take the pressure off my pointer finger. I am not giving up my cello! And I am grateful to have found your KZbin page because the available cello teachers in my area are all book solid with long waiting list

[@soroushm9820]

Thanks for this! Are there any off-cello exercises that I can do to improve my playing?

[@adultcello]

Honestly, I think ear training would be my biggest recommendation (unless your ear is already trained from prior musical experience). I also found it extremely helpful to sing the pieces I was learning to play. Of course some of the cello's range is impossible to sing, but I found that if I could sing through a melody with good intonation, then my left hand immediately felt more secure during shifts, for example. Hope that helps!

[@AlexandraTrencseni]

I would love to begin it, being 60, but having muscular weakness in the arms and not very strong hand. Also , I am a lefthander, and when I 1st time could try for a moment, my bow arm was the left - I got a clear wonderful sound in seconds and felt totally contented with the instrument, like it and me one sounding being, feet barefoot on wooden floor, - and I always loved it’s sound. But is there chance to find a lefthand teacher for online (homebound here) and moreover, a chance to use my right hand for pressing the strings, even if it’s the grip of a not trained 70 year old? I know feldenkrais, but the muscles will remain weak. Is there an example of what my right hand should be able to do in daily life, to know, if I have a chance to practice daily 15-30 minutes? Your video is a really encouraging nice intro, thanks!

[@roblegg3983]

Good stuff.......IMO - slow practice is #1 - slow playing and also shifting slowly - should build muscle memory, which should dramatically improve Intonation. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

[@siriusaltaisandromeda7275]

What if i cant find a song that has that harsh dark mysterious mood/sound that tickles my ear? I have a hard time learning if i cant practice in the right vibe. Any musician references that you know of that may help me find that mental groove with that kind of style, if it even is a style? I go from 0 to 100 right quick mentally and that kind of sound slows me down and helps me relax. I just got my cello and have absolutely 0 experience lol. But i got her set up and did one stroke on it and my damn heart jittered and i felt happy in a way that i havent felt for a long while. I think this will be good for me and my wife wasnt mad when it suddenly appeared at the door so i take that as approval. I do have some musical experience with drums and piano. (No expert playing) but i can play parts and mix them together on ableton. Oh and my cellos electric! Oh! Duuuuuuude! I wonder if i can connect it to ableton! If i can then i could totally play the cello over my mic on rust and force people to pay me scrap or ill make friends with the toxic players and hire an army of noise makers to stand outside of their base... now i want to play rust... but first, the cello, then rust, or soulmask, after i water the garden and feed the dog and cats. I made a tee shirt for my one cat lol its awesome. I got my wife one too lol. Huzahhhh!

[@mollynevola612]

Hey Billy, thanks! What's the second piece you played in this video, after the Bach?

[@adultcello]

Hi Molly! The second piece was The Swan by Saint-Saens, just at a very slow tempo :)

[@markknill3280]

So Billy, you say you starye sat age 25, but how long did it take you to be able to.play in a professional orchestta? I know we are all different. Ive been loving it for 3 years..am about intermediate level....grade 6....my goal is to play with my local community orchestra and need to get to about grade 8. Your channels been a good friend aling the way. Thanks, Billy!

[@amandasolorza7703]

Ok, what are you playing in the background at around #4? I'mma make myself crazy trying to look it up :D

[@oonwing]

👍

[@SEge-tm8ei]

Hi Billy, I am from UK and 49 yrs old and love cello. I play OUD but love to play cello. I do not have cello yet and might do your 30 days course too. Where can I get the CELLO from also i know from my learning experience OUD (trukish classical instrument), i bought beginner instrument OUD, it was not great sound etc. it made my learning journey painful. Please suggest interms of the buying or renting a cello in UK, any ideas please? Thank you very much.

[@adultcello]

Hi there, I'm not familiar with good online renting options in the UK, but I would suggest searching for a local luthier or violin shop in your area. That would be the easiest way to get started with a decent rental instrument. I hope you are able to find a cello and get started! I am holding a free online workshop called the Bow Hold Deep Dive starting this Friday, October 21 on Facebook if you are interested. Even if you don't have a bow yet, it would provide helpful information (and some of the exercises I teach are OFF the instrument anyway!). You can sign up here if interested: www.adultcello.com/challenge. Best of luck to you, and let me know if you have any other questions!

[@annie2225]

I start mine at two years ago at 36.

[@adultcello]

Congrats!

[@lisagergets4978]

What was that tiny passage you played at around 2:50?

[@RetroSpctve]

the question that i cant find any answers to, price range and where to buy a cello if ya dont mind i'd appreciate it

[@americantopgunner5102]

Can you recommend some cellos or brands. I’m willing to spend a decent amount of money for a decent quality instrument.

[@jasongoldhirsch]

can i ask is the master hand used for bow arm?

[@davideze3339]

I have been a violin player for 5 years, will it be easier to play the cello

[@xitingxie7597]

what's the ear training tool you mentioned in the video? thanks

[@adultcello]

Hi! Here's the interval ear trainer I recommend: www.musictheory.net/exercises/ear-interval

[@wildeyedfae]

About to receive my 1st cello. I am 58. Is there some rhyme or reason to your beginner lessons? Currently just watching your "tips". I have played piano and flute and can read music. Those instruments just didnt do anything for me. But the cello...the sound of it can bring me to tears. I dont know why I waited so long to get a cello. Please point me in the right direction. Also...I'm in a tiny mountain town, a tutor is likely not happening!

[@fatihg1081]

I'm 45 and have started 2 month ago. My aim is also to playing bach, like the previous comment.

[@grahamgibson1795]

Do you do private lessons?

[@adultcello]

Hi Graham! I do indeed, both in person in west Los Angeles and via zoom. If you would like to schedule one, please email me at [e-mail]. Thanks so much!

[@hellinast.louis-bicar4954]

AWESOME! HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN PLAYING? JUST SUBSCRIBE!!

[@josephukedaddy0548]

Thanks for the advice. I am turning 50 this year, planning to start cello at 60? 🤣

[@Mulignan8]

Where is the link to your favourite ear trainer?

[@MysticalDragon73]

from the post just below yours the reply from Billy: www.musictheory.net/exercises/ear-interval also its in the info section above.

[@hadademian2752]

This video is more like before learning for any instrument rather than for only the cello, in some spots more likely for any string instrument.. Nevertheless, one could not say those tips were useless.

[@tiscot]

Too much words