Advance Wars Egg Cup Round 6 | juganon V.S DanielMoreno

[@Mangs1337]

Designer is asleep, putting in a shitty meme thumbnail until he wakes up.

[@sonicking0]

But Maaaaaaangs. Funny thumbnail.

[@Nemer49994]

Absolutely no one: Mangs when the designer is asleep: "I may be cringe but I am FREE."

[@A-Dead-Soul]

But it's funny. Keep it i mean why not LOL

[@R8Spike]

As a touhou fan that made me laugh

[@warpuppy4528]

Colin's strength is that he can save up about 50K which on this map is 2 turns of light production, then you can pop gold rush a few times and reach a point where you can pop out 2 Neotanks, a bomber and a battleship every turn regardless of your income from properties. Juganon made no attempt to do that.

[@dark_rit]

Yeah, not to mention that one turn he didn't pop gold rush despite having almost 4 bars filled? It's just a blunder, you want to be popping gold rush every single turn because that's how Colin wins. Overwhelming money leading to many, many bombers/megatanks/battleships/neos to overwhelm the opponent. He was basically playing a fair CO against one of the most broken COs once 2 comm towers are capped and we saw it. Couldn't even take out his missile for many, many turns because Javier's COP is just that good too.

[@JoseMoreno-gu2bf]

I was actually surprised with the perfect luck roll juganon got on 39:05 with the Neo. It scared me a lot when I saw it. Anyway, Gg I went Javier thinking juganon was going Hachi. I proposed him a Colin vs Kanbei match when I saw him going Colin.

[@krissjames7276]

15:13 I'm just amazed that a high level *Javier* player made the classic Mangs mistake of attacking before capturing his comm tower.

[@kentmichaelgalang686]

that said, if a remake of dual strike or a new AW game that features comm towers gets added, should they make it so that you get an alert when you're about to attack before you finish capturing your comm tower? maybe they can even do this in AWBW

[@adudeplaying4100]

@@kentmichaelgalang686 I don't think so. At the risk of "muh skillcap" it is a skill-based decision. If you don't fully analyse the map before making a move then that is the player's fault.

[@DerGremlin]

@@adudeplaying4100 also there can be some weird situations where you don't want additional firepower

[@adudeplaying4100]

@@DerGremlin Whilst rare this is absolutely possible. The two primary reasons I can think of offhand is to avoid charging powers and to deliberately have a unit die to re-take the tile it shot from when it may have just survived due to the enemy taking too much damage. I am sure there are other situations!

[@DerGremlin]

@@adudeplaying4100 yes, or you don't want to finish the enmy unit but otherwise want to take damage so you can maybe combine unit if you realy need money. everything is rare but auto capping is stupid. you should be able to learn from mistakes and act free

[@thrasher698]

for the record Mangs, a 2 tower Javier unit has a 90% indirect defense upon COP. They take 0 damage on plains from indirects.

[@lpsp442]

0 damage if they're on 10 HP. If their HP is 9 or lower, they *may* take 1 or more damage, as the defense boost from terrain scales with HP.

[@lienesauserde7419]

99% defence for a 9 hp unit on plains

[@inversepie6512]

I think Colin's only chance here is to stop Javier from capturing the second comm tower, no matter the cost. I would expect it to take at least a battleship, and probably a carrier, too (to prevent air defeat of the battleship). Obviously, throwing everything at the comm tower would necessitate more defensive play on the other fronts, but time would definitely be on Colin's side once a battleship locks the comm tower and a carrier locks the airport.

[@Mangs1337]

I think preventing the capture, and not capturing it, is the key word here. Sending infantry in to interrupt caps seem like a solid strategy for sure, but trying to cap it will only get you punished.

[@HippieInHeart]

@@Mangs1337 Especially committing to the capture was the mistake, probably. Sending just one or two infantry over, especially if they were backed up by a battleship, might have been a decent idea. Would have forced Javier to either get into range of Colins battleship in order to destroy the infantry, or stay away and allow Colin to actually capture the comm tower. But, even without a battleship or other support, as you already said in your video, sending just one or two infantry over to cap the tower at least would have been a nice little distraction to slightly extend survival time for the base on Colins weak side. At least that's what I'm thinking, it's been some time since I played Advance Wars 2, and I never played AWBW, so could be wrong.

[@hamburger9157]

Get free airports and medium tanks no virus here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqepi52larWafZI

[@crisis8v88]

It's a good idea, but it's really challenging for Colin to stop Javier from capturing his second Comm Tower as even 2 battleships (or 1 rocket and 1 battleship) do not guarantee an infantry kill. Even if he's delayed, Javier can get the capture during a Tower Shield. Then, Javier can punish those units with a battlecopter, or leave them alone because that's 40-50k of unit value that isn't participating in the fight. Maybe it can be done with two black boats constantly ferrying infantry to interrupt and pressuring on the other fronts to keep Javier occupied.

[@LordTyph]

Honestly, I think he needed to get something like a Med. Tank or the like over there. Somethign cheap but bulky to shut off the comm tower access, at least in terms of buying time.

[@thebrazillianguytm2186]

I think unbanning everyone including Javier on a 3-Commtower map might've been a bad Ideia

[@viviblue7277]

The replay doesn’t seem to notice broken pipe seams very fast.

[@Mangs1337]

Hoping this gets fixed in an update.

[@blahmaster6k]

I don't know why blue didn't try to cap the com tower with his infantry instead of his mech. If he caps it with infantry it forces green to either interrupt the capture and take a mech hit on his recon (which would take the recon down to 2-3 HP) or allow the cap and get the first strike on the mech. But instead he capped with the mech which lets blue just interrupt the cap AND remove the threat to his recon.

[@Paulunatr]

Mangs: transports don't have firepower Cruiser: excuse me? Mangs: did I stutter?

[@josephgarcia8209]

Congrats Daniel! I was one of his many victims earlier in the tournament. He's a great player and sportsman. Having played both Mangs (not in the tournament) and Daniel, I think he's a lot better than Mangs and would absolutely destroy him 1-1!

[@epicgamerzfail4575]

Although javier definitely has the advantage on this map, I think juganon just made a lot of misplays that failed help him overcome daniel's advantages. About halfway through the match you could definitely see the skill difference between the two players start to show.

[@thepersonwhocomentz]

A wild play for Colin here would have been to force a few early engagements for an early-game Gold Rush, save for a turn, then pop it to get out a battleship to lock down the Comm Tower. Normally that would be a terrible play, but given how choke-pointy the corners of the map are, that might just work.

[@TheFinalChapters]

A single battleship wouldn't even have been enough to lock the COM tower due to Javier's 60% damage reduction while standing on it.

[@thepersonwhocomentz]

@@TheFinalChapters I was largely assuming he's able to also get out that black boat and infantry, but I did fail to take into account Javier's indirect defense -- you are right about that.

[@ryandugan9176]

I would love to see this matchup again with a more experienced Colin player. I definitely think there is room for the multiplicative nature of his cop to muscle with Javier. The comm tower play could have been really potent if he'd rushed a lander instead and brought tech to prevent the cap of the comm tower rather than wasting funds on mechs. I think the stronger play still would have been to tech into the rocket earlier to free his airport, as forcing the opponent to build more vulnerable counter units like anti air early on is a less apparent strength Colin has as a CO. Imagine that push south was a wall of infantry and battle copters with neotanks.

[@viviblue7277]

Fighting for comm towers seems more sensible both as and against Javier since he gets so much more out of them.

[@aardappelgang6335]

That halló just makes me smile every time without fail

[@MisterVercetti]

Javier straight-up becomes the most broken CO in the entire game on any map in which he can realistically gain control of at least two Comm Towers. Once he gets that second tower, he basically turns into an _even better_ Kanbei with _absolutely no drawbacks._ I mean, pop his Super at that point, and you become _literally_ invincible against indirects and nearly indestructible against everything else, all while getting an obscene attack bonus as well. That's why Colin is, dare I say it, a flat-out _stupid_ choice to go up against Javier; the only pick that's worse IMO is his fellow Blue Moon CO Grit, and that's only because Javier straight-up hard counters Grit due to his baked-in defense bonus against indirects. Even with reduced unit prices, Colin's attack penalty is just going to ram head-first into Javier's defense bonuses, to the point where you might as well be swinging a banana at the Death Star. juganon lost this match before it even began because of that.

[@ohlookitisacat7404]

Tbf, if Colin didn't make too many blunders, he could have won this by overwhelming the weak side faster.

[@VNYoshi]

does he though? that 10% is negated by comm towers somewhat. And colin's advantage is that of a tech-up, which doesn't get hampered as much by the passive bonus until Javier power comes in. Fighting on equal tech is basically a slow-lose with how ridiculous 20% day-to-day defense is. 150% income though, that's the main punch. It negates a decent chunk of Colin's advantage and accelerated the tech game. It also fuels Javier's power more rapidly while colin doesn't need that much to gold rush to begin with. Things went downhill rapidly the moment tower shield spam came into play.

[@Revkor]

@@VNYoshi Hachi is the better choice

[@swagmaster2003]

Even though I lost in round 5, I had a Javier vs Hachi training match on this map against a friend. Mangs said that Javier needs a Mega to deal with a Mega, but that's not true. In my training match, I rushed Hachi's base with MD-tanks and regular tanks. Hachi got Mega's? Just pop the SCOP, and my MD-tanks eat them whole. The weak side I mostly defended with just infantry, because they don't die and let me spent all my money on the offensive. It's funny to see how a single extra comtower can make the difference between 'good' and 'more broken than the most broken'.

[@cccpredarmy]

23:30 he left the blackboat because it made its move by unloading the infantry. it can't move twice

[@oof5992]

Armpits?! Bro Colin got too deep into the internet

[@AndrewChumKaser]

Let this comment be the legacy that the thumbnail once said "The power of armpits"

[@CascaDEER]

Rip first thumbnail, I will miss it

[@gabrielbitencourt3729]

28:28 someone correct me if i am wrong but, shouldn't the pipe seam be destroyed before a unit can travess it? how is that possible?

[@swagmaster2003]

It's a glitch from the replay-viewer, it doesn't display anything when a unit attacks a pipe seam. This is why in a replay you might see units traversing unbroken pipe seams, or two units standing on top of each other. As soon as the next turn rolls in, everything is displayed properly.

[@rompevuevitos222]

32:52 a rocket dealing 10% to a missile with no terrain defense is very cursed

[@whattheshmitty]

People don't realize Javier is in the bottom tier only because 1 com tower is normally ever really in play for competitive matches However as soon as Javier gets more than 1 com tower his power gets multiplicative, and he jumps up leagues in strength Javier with no com towers? trash 1 com tower? meh 2 or more? oh crap!

[@HanakkoLove]

Always knew Mangs was deep into sami pits

[@thaiwin6173]

Love the choice the XCOM 2's OST for the background music.

[@andrewmatlock4871]

How did that infantry move through the pipe at 28:28? EDIT: The green infantry on the airport that blocked it the turn before

[@Mangs1337]

I have no idea...

[@kurtmatteson4914]

The replay viewer doesn't show shots on pipe seams. After the turn ends, you can see that the pipe seam got busted open. That actually happened mid-turn, which allowed the Infantry to move through that spot.

[@PyrelordPazuzu]

If you watch replays through the replay viewer, when you hover the cursor over the button to proceed to the next action, it tells you what action is coming up next, however in the case of pipe seam attacks it will only say "Empty" and display no movement until you proceed into the next turn. As Kurt Matteson mentioned, it is possible that pipe seam attacks happened during one of these "Empty" actions, so we never get to actually see them getting hit.

[@JoseMoreno-gu2bf]

@@Mangs1337 I took 2 shots at the pipe with the first arty I built. And then finished with a tank from the 2 base. That's also why I lock down my airport.

[@andrewmatlock4871]

Ahh, that makes sense. I hadnt been paying close enough attention to that bottom area and completely missed the artillery sitting in range for a couple turns lol

[@CrazyJay516]

Manga goes back to calling Daniel his full name out of respect

[@subbie-eye]

21:28 Likely a glitch, the viewer does not account for enemy units when calculating movement.

[@FSSZilla]

16:00 of he had used the infantry to cap the com tower and denied the forest with the mech instead, he would force Daniel to attack the infantry and could then follow up with a full strength mech hit, which would have been much more devastating for the recon. He probably could have finished capturing with a 3 health infantry, or forced another recon or anti-air as a response.

[@megaman161]

28:26 Ah, the replay didn't catch that the pipe seam was broken. The Infantry just walks right through it.

[@rompevuevitos222]

I was wondering if in play by web infantry can just climb over vulnerable pipes lol

[@M30W3R]

28:26 magical pipe-ignoring Infantry coming through

[@andrewzheng4759]

At 15:59 I feel like Blue could've capped with the infantry to so that if the recon interrupts, it gets destroyed by the mech.

[@subbie-eye]

Been waiting for these! I need to study more COs, and I hear XCOM 2 music too! This one will be fun!

[@benjaminoechsli1941]

Mangs: Rating doesn't matter that much when the weaker player has a busted CO. 5:35 Also Mangs: Jug is playing at a lower level than Daniel. 23:40 41:25 I'd honestly be interested in a rematch on the same map with the COs on the same sides, but the players swap which one they control. See if Daniel can stop Don Quitowers from demolishing him. GG to both!

[@FizzleFX]

33:15 imagine being that missile driver: "-hey mate, i think it started raining... oh- never mind, it stopped..:"

[@Ranakel]

It is seven minutes. Not a single turn has been made, yet I am fully engrossed in strategic thinking.

[@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS]

I love all the weird ass rules of egg cup.

[@rmzing]

The whole match, I was thinking, "Does juganon even know Megatanks exist?" I wouldn't blame them: I've never seen one used in any of these replays. But, then they pull one out on the last day. I'm still waiting for a match where a Megatank is actually used.

[@mimizdani8194]

28:00 he didn't block his airport. The seem was open actually but we couldn't see it

[@michaellopez5303]

Thanks for doing these videos, Mangs!

[@josephzc1832]

Hey mangs, do you have like tutorial videos for beginners because I wanna play this game but honestly I have no idea how

[@Twigggggy]

@28:29 how did daniel move that infrantry?

[@davisg5210]

No Half Measures Colin...

[@cosmozone271]

Impressive plays. Though funny how my attention was grabbed by the use of XCOM 2's soundtrack.

[@andreacappelletti5442]

simple idea for a meme: javier in maps whit 1 tower ( image of javier defult ) javier in maps whit 2 towers ( muscular javier / chad javier )

[@rebeccasheng620]

The replay doesn’t update unit blocking the path

[@goldenspiral6008]

I've never played on this map. It looks so fun.

[@coceth]

At 28:27, green's infantry moved through a pipe seam.

[@BlackHawk2b]

Yeah I don't know how it's possible

[@DarkOrderSolDjango]

28:29 Did Mangs didn't see the infantry passing the pipeline ?

[@ThePoeSalesman514]

If a Javier T-copter would have survived a missile strike from Colin, I think that would have been a better play than going rocket, cuz Colin would have fed him charge if he fired and Javier can wait for the first tower shield to build a Bcopter and break the airport lock.

[@HexManiac-nf1yg]

I think Colin set in motion his defeat by trying to capture that comm tower and not just deny it till later

[@FrankieMankie]

Hey man! I've been playing Advance Wars 1 and 2 since I was a boy and recently found out about Advance Wars by Web (and also your channel). Is there a way to play against the AI to see what changes have been made to the game + try out the new COs? Great content by the way!

[@Mangs1337]

Not on AWBW, but there's a new site being created called Wars World where we hope this will be the case!

[@FrankieMankie]

@@Mangs1337 Ty for the fast answer! Well then I guess I'll just try AWBW and get dunked by pros untill I remember how to play 😂

[@21Kaiser_]

28:30 infantry can pass trough the pipe lines?

[@21Kaiser_]

28:25 near green Airport

[@Hone_mor2525]

visual bug The pipe seam was already destroyed, but the replay forgot to show it

[@21Kaiser_]

@@Hone_mor2525 yes, I understood it a few minutes later

[@TMOFApollios]

Colin should have just left the mech and rake with infantry,eaving the black boat so if he is attacked with recon, he can get a mech hit off.

[@dominicsantiago271]

Un jugador que habla español, ya era hora

[@JoseMoreno-gu2bf]

Sí soy

[@PICADALOL]

Please do more of these!!

[@aaronlovin2263]

Ooh, great AWBW vid : )

[@MichaelSayer-sf7gu]

Rocket artillery apc tank infantrymen. Your air units act more as cavalry. Long love cruise missles and outlawed COs

[@SaaScofagus]

Of course the Javier player has a Spanish name.

[@kiwi_inc2843]

Power of what now?

[@PyrelordPazuzu]

Wait for your designer to wake up next time dude...

[@joshsimpson1283]

Are you continuing the egg cup until there's a single winner?

[@inversepie6512]

Juganon didn't pick Jugger? I am disappoint.

[@Hone_mor2525]

WTF IS THAT THUMBNAIL?????

[@FarFromPeakGaming]

28:25 anyone like the to note the infantry walking thought the pipe

[@kevinabad6699]

This is Normally a Colin preferred Map...

[@m.t.5339]

Green makes the mistake I make each and every time, attack, then cap comm tower.

[@dropinota]

This Collin was a virgin Collin main, no Piperunner and sub 400k funds.

[@clydefrosch]

did that infantry just walk through a seam?

[@Hone_mor2525]

it was already broken, but the replay forgot to show that

[@evanseifert8858]

Can't we just be straightforward about the number of funds instead of using dumb terms like "semi-high funds match"?

[@pktmaster]

Is Javier a son of Rogal Dorn? Cuz Colin just bounced off of him. Actually now that I think about it... Is Colin a son of Perturabo?

[@privategallade9120]

🥚

[@toxiczhellz3506]

Anyone else see the green infantry walk through the pipe? At around the 28 minute mark

[@benjaminoechsli1941]

The seam was destroyed, but the replay viewer on this site is notoriously bad at updating in real time.

[@Slimegrinch]

28:30 am I the only one that saw Daniel's infantry go through the pipe seam?

[@Slimegrinch]

Never mind it was replay being weird.

[@bennywatanabe6647]

bro send me a link i want to play this game online

[@booman3138]

Gg

[@napalmcannon2513]

Man Tower Shield is DISGUSTING with two Comm towers

[@blazesona12]

Juganon would of been better served putting a battleship in play for this match than a moving thing

[@whisper6534]

Up!

[@KhoaTran-md5ou]

that tower push is ok but needs to go up with a rocket to block it instead of trying to get it for yourself. As a colin you have that option to go big

[@RadioTails]

Speaking of Javier, I've been extracting the Skill CO/Rank code from AWDS, and Javier actually receives +80% Defense from Indirect fire, instead of +60%. What's odd is every website I've checked, including AWBW, lists it as +60%. So poor Javier's SCOP stats are slightly weaker. Of course, if he gets more than 2 Towers, he's broken.

[@lschnitzer7770]

Did they take the Baseline bonus from powers into consideration? If not it maybe not a bad idea to test it out if the calculations actually are different

[@RadioTails]

@@lschnitzer7770 Apparently the default +10 offense/defense is applied during COP/SCOP in AWBW like AWDS, but the stats on the HUD don't display this (so Andy on AWBW has +20% firepower when he activates his SCOP, not +10% firepower). Looking at the damage calculator as I type this, Andy's Missile against Javier's Bomber (SCOP | No Com Towers), will only do +10% attack. So it seems Javier does use +80, but the description says +60 (according to the damage calculator anyway).

[@ShosuCeladon]

Wait when did I play Adance Wars?!

[@thepersonwhocomentz]

I didn't need that thumbnail in my life.

[@glendyrofthenorthstar9808]

weak

[@drrobotnik5265]

Cursed thumbnail

[@UmbreonMessiah]

HARBORS AND AIRPORTS GIVE INCOME?!?!?!?!

[@FizzleFX]

Capitalism vs Communist propaganda

[@marioramirez6741]

Ah yes, Javier. The incuggarch hard counter.

[@hazelsparks4503]

Do you have a discord mangs?