Advanced Newtonian Collimation

[@astrochemist6626]

This was an amazing video, I used my zwo120mc and it’s lens to collimate. I have just washed the mirrors so everything needed adjusting. It worked perfectly. Before this I could never get the laser collimator and the collimating cap to agree, but using the laser Barlow trick and camera, cap now agrees and secondary is dead centre in the focuser. Thank you!

[@astronomyshed]

Wow, never been described as amazing before but I'll take that. Thanks. Glad it helped.

[@Glofilter]

Did you need to mount the lens to a tube, or is it the same size as an EP? How did you get it to square up?

[@jimwaters304]

Very useful video. Thanks for taking the time to make it.

[@Anjin42]

Just taken my first paddle in the sea of Newtonians and I am truly greatful for the knowledge you have shared. As a precision engineer, I now feel armed with enough information to really sort a scope out. That includes your other collimation videos.

[@andrekovacs7954]

Man, you are a genius! Your method is simply brilliant! After many years trying (and failing) to collimate my Newtonian, I finally managed to get round stars! I can’t believe my eyes. But I did my own variation of your method. First, I used my RPi with NoIR camera (lens on) and the crosshairs from PHD2 (with the V4L2 driver) for the secondary mirror, and than I used an artificial star and a DSLR for the primary mirror. PS: I aligned the focuser, installed springs in the spider, and loosened the primary mirror holders (to avoid pinched optics). Many thanks for the great video library!

[@astronomyshed]

Thank you for the positive comments. I appreciate it.

[@konstantinchudinov2553]

I always knew that there is somemething wrong with standard laser collimation but i did not know how to adjust secondary mirror properly. Thank you so much for your video!

[@mkraz57]

Thanks astroshed. This works and far better than what the eye can see. I never have to touch the secondary screws anymore.

[@carbidejones5076]

You are right, a laser can make one a nutcase, it can show a completely out of whack telescope to be perfectly collimated

[@j.romberg4379]

THANK YOU! Bought a used scope and had a hell of a time tracking down where it was having issues. This was beyond helpful and kept me from pulling out all my hair, just the normal amount.

[@luppydluppyd]

Great video answers collimation questions better than any other, I have one question, if possible to answer on this tube, what is the datum setting for adjusting screws on primary mirror, eg, screwed all the way in so mirror mount touching back plate, furthest away ie screwed all the way out or only half way, your help appreciated.

[@pinzyrat]

I'm so frateful! You are very generous with your wisdom.

[@LaidBackCycling]

Wonderful! As a newbie to astronomy and strugling with my new and first telescope, I've learned a lot from your previous Collimation videos and from this one. I have an AM114EQ which is also a Bird-Jones. I know about the extra steps needed to do with the B-J, but with you thoroughness and well presented details would you consider doing a video to cover the B-J collimation? Thanks a lot.

[@astronomyshed]

@luppydluppyd The true anwer is neither, it needs to be in between, so that the springs are under some tension but not over compressed, although sometimes, if you have a camera on the scope that won't hit focus, you can sometimes nudge it in by srewing out, ie pushing the mirror up the tube a little.

[@luppydluppyd]

Thanks for primary mirror datum info, have you done a vid on crayford focuser setup/collimation, if not would be great if you did as along with your other vids it would be so helpful.

[@slydog7131]

Good video. But, your example of a laser lying at time 07:35 I think is quite incorrect. What is necessary is that the plane of the secondary must be oriented such that it correctly reflects the light rays into the focuser. Whether that adjustment is achieved by rotating the secondary or tilting it with the 3 adjustment screws is irrelevant. Of course, trying to do the entire adjustment with just the screws might put them at or close to their limits, but it is only the end result that matters, not how you got there. Still, thanks for the video.

[@ProfHarryGreb]

Sly Dog I agree re alignment of the secondary with the primary, but Dion does have a point, as (assuming collimation was good to start with) the newly re-aligned secondary will now have changed angle with respect the focuser tube. It will work okay for most uses, but on a fast Newt like this could introduce problems.

[@Mr71Anderson]

Thanks for the Video, this type of Collimation sound really good to me. I´ve tried it, but the Weather doesnt let me try , so hopefully this works fine. cheers mate

[@absolutekarl]

Nice. Very interesting method, but almost more importantly, the only alignment info I've come across that adequately (if at all) mentions secondary to focuser alignment in a remotely fathomable or doable way. I'll definitely try this and see, for me, how it fairs against other methods ... Cheers !

[@simms75]

Another great tutorial.. Any chance of a Panaview V Aero review?

[@shaneskelts80]

Another great tutorial video!! I have a meade 114mm which is my first telescope. I have notice that the primary mirror has no collimation spot. Can I collimate my Newtonian in the same way??

[@astronomyshed]

There's plenty of info on the forum of my site at astronomyshed, but basically it all helps to stop random light bouncing about in the tube and gives more contrast to the views.

[@Mandragara]

If you have the laser dot in the centre of the primary mirror by way of two different alignment errors, what are the downsides?

[@garyroberts6554]

Thanks for the video and the explanation of a more accurate method of collimating a newtonian from original set up. I have a question regarding the steps which I hope you can clear up. I was clear and in agreement with the steps up to 18mins 40 seconds, getting the secondary positioned correctly, but then you adjust the tilt of the secondary to position the main mirror spot central. This step confuses me because the main mirror has not yet been set to a base setting and could be anywhere. i would have thought that after a lot of trouble to get the secondary accurately set, the next step would be to adjust the main mirror to get the spot central before any adjustments to the tilt of the secondary. or am i missing something? Gary

[@ww321]

I'll have to try that. I have a cheap 114x500 ref. I've been with. I'm beginning to think the mirror has issues. I have 7 telescopes. Plenty to adjust.

[@denispol79]

Good method! I was always unsure if the secondary mirror was in a right position in it's rotation plain.

[@dingdong1196]

@shaneskelts80 Hi great video's very helpful to a beginner like me, I have a question for you...I'm having trouble locating the billits part adaptor to make a live cam, can you tell me were / whats it off? and maybe the parts i'd need to make it, i see you can buy astro photography cams but they are expensive. many thanks

[@daniyyel_n]

Thany you Dion for this amazing tutorial! How can I center the primary mirror without the barlowed laser method that you used in the video ?

[@turiddu9]

Thank you you're painstaking detail here but, THERE'S GOT TO BE A BETTER WAY!!!!! Great presentation and brilliant camera angles brother stargaxer!

[@davidelomonaco7358]

I have a question, so the first step is to make the secondary mirror a perfect circle and this is easy. but why when I remove the cover and the paper sheet the primary is not centered??

[@turbo399]

I love your videos, this is just brilliant

[@mjparker68]

Great video, Thanks. I just bought, but have not yet received the Quattro 8in. I will be flocking etc as soon as all the stuff shows up. It will be a good winter project. I do have a question about the video camera. How did you make it? I have no access to any type of machine shop, or anything. can you buy them? Matthew

[@astronomyshed]

Microsoft lifecam cinema camera and one of these adapters ;- www.billetparts.co.uk/catalog/lifecam-adapter-p-122.html covered in another of my videos. Check it out here :- kzbin.info/www/bejne/bp-XlqetZr6foqs

[@mjparker68]

astronomyshed Thank you. i found it right after I asked the question. :) I've ordered one of the billet parts and a Lifecam from ebay for 40$. hope i don't screw up the mod. I might find a friend to help me.Great videos, all useful. Thanks again.

[@astronomyshed]

@shaneskelts80 It's certainly worth adding a spot to your primary and if you look through my video on tips and tweaks for a quattro 10cf I show how to do it.

[@astronomyshed]

@LaidBackCycling Unfortunately that's not a scope style I have any experience of at all so unfortunately, you probably wont see one any time soon.

[@jennyking4107]

Dion What have you got holding the lifecam in the focuser?

[@astronomyshed]

It was an adapter made by billetparts and he stopped doing them but. Do you have a qhy5l style camera because you can do the trickery with those. I'll pm you my mobile on the shed.

[@cosmoscarl4332]

My only problem with this use of a web cam for collimation is that the web cam needs to be properly collimated or you have the same error as a laser, essentially. I do not have access to the particular web cam or custom nose piece you use.

[@astronomyshed]

Not really, you can move the overlaid reticule to centre it the image on the focuser tube.

[@philgolden8619]

I've got a focuser that is a good bit off centrally to the spider. I'd say it is off by a about 2.5mm to the centre of the secondary (roughly 5mm when the secondary is removed and a laser inserted to shine onto the tube, 910/4.5" Soligor scope) although it is more likely that the spider is off. What can be done there? It is near impossible to get good collimation because of it. Also can a laser be collimated with a Barlow (diffraction) instead of the rotating thing on a 45° rig? That would be a far easier method to collimate a laser using a Barlow and distance!

[@astronomyshed]

Another of my videos covers centralising the spider. If the focuser doesn't have collimation screws. Shim it. Collimating lasers is how I also showed in a video. No easier method I know of.

[@philgolden8619]

@@astronomyshed Yeah I was thinking of shimming it. Was also thinking of replacing the spider with a 4 vane instead of the 3 that is currently on it. Hard to tell what is off the spider or the focuser. Will try the shim first I think, much cheaper and probably easiest! Another option I'm looking at is flipping/redrilling the spider so 2 collimation screws for the secondary are at the top, but it would mean one vane would be about 1cm away from the seam of the tube, much harder method to get spot on also.

[@philgolden8619]

Shimmed there earlier, much better but still a tiny bit off, will have to do the job. I also sanded the back plate of the secondary flush and made a washer from a plastic A4 folder instead of teflon/stainless steel, it did the trick! @astronomyshed Thanks for the advice and the great content.

[@bmw540i]

Dion, can you tell me more about "blacken the secondary mirror" and flockinh, please

[@joearcuri3377]

Hi Dion, Did you finally get the new secondary for your Quattro? If so, what did you get and why? Just curious because i have this scope on order

[@cosmoscarl4332]

I'm wondering if the Webcam isn't collimated if you have the same problem as with an uncollimated laser?

[@cosmoscarl4332]

I'm going to purchase a Webcam for this procedure today. Any suggestions?

[@phillipromford9143]

Sadly, no-one appears to make the Lifecam adaptor now, So, I'll have to make one. A point not noted is that the Lifecam must be colimated in the adaptor for this method to work. So, I'll make an adaptor with colimation screws. To colimate the lifecam, all that's needed is a jig with two pairs of decent ball races that the adaptor can be rotated on. I made one so that I could colimate my laser colimator, which out of the box was not properly colimated (not good). It's very easy to do on a solid bench with a target set up a few metres away to centre up on. Then, as Astronomyshed says, it's essential to use a self centering adaptor in your focuser, such as this: OVL Twist Lock Adaptor 2" - 1.25" The adaptor must be seated carefully in the focuser that ideally has a compression band rather that just two screws. It's also best to mark the adaptor so that it is always set in the same position in the focuser. The process only works if the focuser is slop free, set and locked fully in. Once everything is properly aligned, make permanent position marks on all components and always assemble in the same way. It simply means developing a working method, and sticking to it. There is a common myth which says that it's not important that the focuser is orthogonal to the OTA axis - it is important.

[@nasdrasil]

Dion... What do I do when the image in the camera is not centered? It seems to me here that my draw tube is more to the right side. When I use the reticule in sharpcap the center is way off of where it is supposed to be. I am using a QHY5L-II cam with a lens to do this.

[@astronomyshed]

You really need to take questions like this to my site at www.astronomyshed.co.uk youtube just isnt suitable and not it's intended use

[@nasdrasil]

Will do, thanks :-)

[@Gosling_dkc]

nasdrasil I can't seem to get into the website. Did you ever find the solution to this? I have the same problem

[@patthehorse]

Dion shows how to center your focuser in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/aX3Fg2Skft1goNk

[@weasele1]

glad to see im not the only one. my cam is way off to one side . wondering why. its both the asi 224 and 290

[@TheRogueRedwolf]

man iv got an 8inch newtonian and it just wont give me a sharp image my 5inch gives me better image and barlows wont work in the 8 inch its driving me crazzy any advise as to were im going wrong?

[@nathanhassey4724]

I hope you are still around, so I tried this and when I opened sharcap with my camera, the whole camera view is not centered.

[@Notabled]

Do you have a video on how to make the webcam insert for the drawtube?

[@yassamrani1477]

Great, great videos!! but, this procedure is valid for a 200/1000 pds? i heard that this kind of telescopes has a little offset in relation with the primary and secondary mirror. Thanks!

[@danieldasairas2898]

Dear Dion. Thank you for these video. ¿Can I use an qhyccd 5LM or a spc900? Both don´t have any lens.... they are used for astrophotography... I can´t focused them.... (¿?)

[@SylvesterFritz]

Its all that tinkering around you do with it, I thought while watching today its amazing that he never drops it

[@PlayJewel]

My telescope is absolutely weird since i removed the mirrors for cleaning wont collimate no matter what i do. This is exactly what i need. Thanks.

[@weasele1]

what kind of cam are you using ? i tried with my zwo asi 290 and 224 with the all sky cam. the all sky cam in both cams wasn't projecting an image centered in the focus tube

[@astronomyshed]

Joseph Rueck converted microsoft lifecam, an allsky lens is way too wide angle.

[@weasele1]

i know its a wide angle but i can still see the secondary the point is the sensor is not centered in the focus tube and no its not the focus thats out the cross hair in sharp cap has to be adjusted

[@anthonysaab1186]

Same issue here!

[@astronomyshed]

Use the centre of the vignette caused by the focuser tube instead.

[@matthewbrown8679]

Did you ever get this to work? I'm thinking of getting a 12 mm vs mount lens for my asi174 mini.

[@Markinpuff]

How did you test the collimation of the video camera?

[@amateurastronaut5006]

Brilliant man! Was that red card a football card? 😆

[@alongami3552]

how to get the round.. mine is square

[@marsaspen-murray3797]

A veritable tour de force. F*cking brilliant.

[@Gosling_dkc]

Hello! I know you're not really into astronomy anymore. But I can't seem to get on your website. And I'm having a problem where the reticle on sharp cap is not centered in the focuser tube. Do I just adjust camera until it's centered? Or adjust the reticle?

[@windston2521]

I personally aligned the rings in sharpcap with the shadow of the end of the focuser tube, that way you know that your reticle is centered below the EP

[@anthonysaab1186]

I got the same problem. I collimated just like Windston said but I'm having issues with the GSO coma corrector and I think it's due to collimation. I think I might try to center the mirror with respect to the reticle even if it's not centered. Let me know please if you tried it and what were your results!

[@wojciechna]

@@anthonysaab1186 My camera is not collimatted so I aligned rings in Mire de collimation with the end of the focuser tube tenn aligned secondary to the smaller rings in tme Mirre de collimation. it works great

[@johnlutkin4095]

Hi, I have just come to this vidio and very interesting it seems. One point I have a Newtonian with a sealed glass front so cannot get inside the tube to check the secondary mirror. Have you any sugestions please. John

[@cosmoscarl4332]

Just being silly. I looked up reticule and it said it’s a variant of reticle and says a reticule is a woman’s small hand bag. Reticle reticule. You say tomato I say toma’to.😃 Still can’t get the telescope collimated properly. It didn’t look right from the start so I went crazy on the secondary and had it out of whack for a while. It’s closer now but I think it’s supposed to be offset? F/3.9 10” Orion astrograph. Don’t know how to offset it so I centered it. Still not right but I don’t have the proper mount yet anyway. Can’t balance it so I can’t take it outside yet. All the same, great video! I just don’t have software or anything, except collimation cap.

[@arielnonini7384]

this method include the secondary offset? thanks

[@ww321]

Great video.

[@PlayJewel]

Whats the point in having the barlow lens?

[@astronomyshed]

It diffuses the laser light and causes it to reflect the whole centre spot intead of just a pinpoint.

[@marcinkaczmarek2650]

Any other cameras/mounts that would be suitable instead of the MS lifecam? How about my DSLR with a 2 inch t ring?

[@marcinkaczmarek2650]

I noticed sharpcap supports QHY5 cameras so I will use that. I am going to clean my mirrors and add some mods to my blue tube 200p skywatcher so this video will come invaluable when I get to doing it. Thanks!

[@rrsixteen1959]

Thank you. Great video.

[@jonkennedyfederation]

I have a NEWTONIAN 150/750 and have collimated it to precision with a laser collimator but STILL SEE crosshairs! Can you help? What am i doing wrong?

[@DavidMFChapman]

Jon Kennedy Federation Even a perfectly collimated reflector will show diffraction spikes from the spider vanes on a bright object.

[@jonkennedyfederation]

I had the original housing for the lens along with the one that came with the lenses :( after removing one I have fixed this! Thanks so much!

[@starrvalley12]

what lifecam did you guy's get.

[@johnybaby2]

You say people won't likely have the camera, couldn't you use a regular auto guiding/planet cam?

[@astronomyshed]

No idea, this was a long time ago, I gave up on astro so no idea what kit is available today.

[@astrofamily6081]

thank you.. thank you.. thank you..

[@cosmoscarl4332]

What’s a reticule?

[@astronomyshed]

www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/reticule

[@powertool4uau]

Hmmmm seems to be a very complicated way of introducing extra problems with heaps of steps missing. eg What happens if focuser is not 90 degrees to tube (very common) Whoops didn't think of that!!!! there goes that whole vid!. Lasers don't lie, just some people don't know how to use them. On a separate note, Good vid and interesting.

[@hernando0712]

Good morning Sir, As much as I try to find an answer to the following, I have not been able to find the satisfactory answer ... Apparently almost nobody takes into account that the primary mirror can not only suffer from de-collimation with respect to the secondary mirror; The primary mirror may suffer from astigmatism due to the movements caused by the weight of the glass, the size of the mirror, the triangular supports of the cell, the fixations of the mirror and the different temperatures in the observation environment. I have a 12-inch Newtonian f / 4 (TPO SKU: OS-12IN) and I discovered that the mirror was attached to 3 of the 9 points of the supporting triangles (that is, a point stuck by each supporting triangle). The telescope factory (GSO Telescopes) attached the mirror to the cell with double-sided tape. I have read in some forums and articles that it is better not to stick the primary mirror to the cell to avoid astigmatism but as I write, that mirror was attached to the support. I do not know if that is correct and in any case, in a telescope like mine that is not Dobsonian, but that is placed in a robotic-equatorial mount, that mirror moves whenever it is directed to an object in the sky and I find de-collimation even when it is attached with that tape to the cell. Do you know if it is better not to attach the primary mirror to the cell anywhere?

[@popeye5989]

Have you ever come across one of these before? Will they do the same job? www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p5506_TS-Optics-Concenter-2--Collimation-Eyepiece-for-Newtonian-Telescopes.html

[@astronomyshed]

That is a manual copy of something I showed to the astro community years ago, except I did it with a camera and a software reticle, the've just incorporated the same thing into a sight tube. It is shown in this video.

[@astronomyshed]

@luppydluppyd Have a look through my vids for "improving a skywatcher crayford focuser" and "skywatcher quattro 10cf tips and tweaks"

[@SylvesterFritz]

Lol, I know the feeling. never satisfied it becomes an obsession

[@MorsErslev]

Great video, thx...

[@WarrenPostma]

Surely in 2020 someone has written some real software that has the collimation overlay built into the main app?

[@astronomyshed]

@gabbygall Sure, if anyone want to send me both of these I'd be happy......... To do it lol

[@kingdom777866]

Can you come round and do mine... all this talk of secondary mirror, primary mirror Secondary mirror, primary mirror... my heads in a fkn Wurlitzer. ???

[@astronomyshed]

I got a replacement secondary because I broke my original one, so it was just a replacement, exactly the same as original.

[@Reverend-JT]

8:08 say it loud. Say it again.

[@astronomyshed]

Other side of Oldham nr Saddleworth ;)

[@SGTcrackey666]

Cant you just take my telecope and do it for me 😂

[@davidjones3635]

This method is flawed, the camera looking down the focuser does not account for perspective, if your laser collimator looks back on itself all is fine, and if the secondary is in the wrong position.. the image will vignette in ether four corners.

[@astronomyshed]

Well, you can use a cheshire, but barlowed laser is by far my favourite.

[@astronomyshed]

@CalanRoupe Tok a look at your vid and commented ;o)

[@astronomyshed]

Just a natural born tinkerer ;o)

[@RainbowTreeMusic]

How do you actually make the camera adapter? I'd like to do this, but the camera is the most difficult part of it all.

[@astronomyshed]

RainbowTreeMusic I do have some adapters of my own design available if you have the right camera, see this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/goOwhoeKfrh0h5Y