Adventures in Retrocomputing Episode 44: Apple IIc Flat panel display LCD screen conversion

On this special episode, I will take the rare Apple IIc LCD display, and replace the monochrome Liquid crystal with a new composite color monitor. All will remain looking original and will not require external power!
Thanks you for supporting me on Patreon! www.patreon.com/Adventuresretrocomputing
This episode sponsored by
Stavros Karatsoridis
Evan Koblentz
Chris Torrence
Dave LeCompte
Ron's Computer Videos
Ken Gagne
and
8bittees.com - the best retro wear!
Many thanks to:
My ever patient family
The creators of retrobrite
The Apple II enthusiast group
Kansasfest conference
Chris Torrence - Assembly lines podcast
Joe Strosnider - Joe's computer museum
Ron McAdams - Ron's Computer Videos
Music by
8-bit weapon!!
Lofi youtube channel
Kevin MacLeod
Link: incompetech.filmmusic.io/song...
License: creativecommons.org/licenses/b...

[@WelcomeToMarkintosh]

Javier,THAT is SO cool! I'm also impressed at how well you got the clear plastic screen SO clear!

[@jbmaru]

So brilliant! This really would have been the dream monitor back in the day.

[@stevesmith3890]

I'm surprised to see any of these old displays around as so few were sold. I was wondering how you were going to deal with the video interface as the old one was very unique (I was the designer) until I realized the new monitor could be driven directly. Nice job.

[@ARCJavMaster]

Wow! You were the designer? Would love to hear stories about it, like why getting that weird size and other considerations.

[@stevesmith3890]

@@ARCJavMaster LCDs were pretty primitive in those days. I don't remember much about the form factor other than it needed to fit the IIc case width. I sort of recall the displays only had square pixels so that set the size. The old panel is electrically four separate panels in one. Since the display is multiplexed the refresh rate had a big effect on display performance. Driving it as one big panel wasn't good enough so logically it looked like four separate panels on one piece of glass. The old interface took the video stream from the IIc and stored it in a RAM and then read it out four times from four different places to create four different video streams, one for each quadrant of the display.

[@ARCJavMaster]

@@stevesmith3890 You should write more stories like this, people are very fond and interested in hearing them. Maybe join the Facebook Apple II enthusiast group?

[@stevesmith3890]

@@ARCJavMaster Ok, how about I add to the story. So here's a bit of flat panel trivia. Why did we ship such a poor display? I'm going to have to take some of the fall there but some was by chance. I had been working in the disk division on Twiggy drives and honestly it was full of problems that were pretty much unsolvable. I was getting pretty frustrated and was looking for another spot in the company. I met Rick Geiger who was running a one man technology investigation group. His background was software so we sort of teamed up to look at new tech. We got these panels from Sharp and I went to work on an interface. Now Apple was growing like crazy in those days and Rick didn't have any office/lab space for me so I set up shop in a conference room. We were in what was called the triangle building since that was it's shape and this room was on an apex of the triangle with two completely glass walls. As you can imagine with the sun shining in the room was crazy bright. There was only one panel and my proto interface so all the execs came to my conference room to check it out. In those crazy bright conditions it looked ok and once these things get going there's no stopping them.

[@ARCJavMaster]

@@stevesmith3890 I love it! Well, just to let you know if you have more stories, we have tons of people always talking about the hardware and software, a thriving community of retro. Somebody is doing clear cases for the Lisa, clear Apple II, Mac, etc. There's also Kansasfest, a conference on July of all Apple II stuff, we show prototypes, programs, etc.

[@esseferio]

Love the conversion. Very clever, and the end result is gorgeous.

[@TeardownOZ2CPU]

thanks a lot, for others who like a fast answer : he say only use 3 pins 8 12 13 full explain : pin 8 is +12V, pin 12 is video, pin 13 is gnd

[@geekwithsocialskills]

I remember first seeing you do this on the Call APPLE website back in 2015. Such a wonderful modification to the original Apple //c flat panel display. I'm excited to have this done to mine and bring new life into my LCD and Apple //c computer. You do amazing work Javier. I never thought about using Meguiar's PlastX on computer parts. I've only ever used Novus 1, 2, 3 for computer plastics and the Meguiar's PlastX on vehicle headlights. Nice tip on that one for sure!

[@rusty119]

Great job! Looks really good.

[@AllensTrains]

Amazing job! Thanks for uploading.

[@JoesComputerMuseum]

Freaking sweet!!

[@Skysams]

Awesome my friend, thanks for sharing! Really interesting, I really love this kind of stuff!

[@chrischarla424]

Awesome to see!

[@neuromonkey]

Wow, fantastic work!!

[@markusjacobi-piepenbrink9795]

Well done!

[@ARCJavMaster]

Thanks!

[@naderhumood1199]

Lovely monitor.

[@davidgreen4406]

Great work! I think a neat way to extend this project would be to figure out how to make 3D printed, replica IIc flat panel displays that are designed to accommodate modern screens internally from the beginning. I'm sure lots of people would love to add something like this to their Apple IIs ---even as an aftermarket replica. I wonder what kinds of signals can be input to this modern LCD panel --maybe even an RGBtoHDMI Raspberry Pi could be incorporated inside to drive the LCD at crisper resolutions. A Raspberry Pi video processor would probably even allow for an "emulation mode" of the original green LCD. I think that this is sort of similar to the work that people often perform on Nintendo Gameboy consoles these days.

[@ARCJavMaster]

People are not eager to pay that cost, 3D printing is expensive, adding screen and video driver could go up to $450. Not feasible.

[@joseluisarenasperez3855]

Great mod Javier súper 👍👍👍🤩🤩🤩

[@lifeafterdev]

Very Impressive. Would you please provide the name and model of the LCD replacement. Also the original measurements of the original IIc display would be nice 👍

[@wsiquara]

Ficou perfeito parabéns

[@ARCJavMaster]

Muito obrigado

[@manuelmuro7456]

WOW!!! That was a really nice conversion! You did such a great and professional job on it that I wonder how much it would cost if I had you make another one of them for me? ;-)

[@ARCJavMaster]

Unfortunately, the screen can't be sourced anymore. They stopped making that LCD.

[@pandaboy6621]

Love this! Any links to the display you used or a wiring diagram?

[@ARCJavMaster]

Sorry, just manual work.

[@pentiummmx2294]

LCD rot fixed by swapping a better color screen into it

[@benharyo]

Amazing🙋‍♂️👍🙋‍♂️👍🙇‍♂️

[@GrantMeStrength]

This is great. I had a failing Apple Iic CRT monitor, and I did the same kind of thing - swapped in a 10" LCD panel for the original display. Looks pretty good, although my panel was HDMI only so I needed to add a few adaptors to get a video signal and the result has some conversion artifacts. Thinking about the Raspberry Pi based RGBtoHDMI boards and wondering if the Iic would work with those..

[@ARCJavMaster]

I have done those with 9.7 ipad screens and vga/composite converters. Then I add A2Heaven VGA adapter to make the image clean and crisp, adding green and amber options.

[@GrantMeStrength]

@@ARCJavMaster yes I have the A2heaven but it’s the HDMI stage when I get noise. The screen I have is HDMI only.

[@cosmokramer4585]

Epic dude. I love the life of apple tinkering, especially when the results are fruitful and they work! On that note, have you ever thought or can a color display be put on the backlit MaC Portable?? Any info would be great, I have successfully repaired around 10 of them. Thanks!!

[@ARCJavMaster]

Thanks for your nice feedback! I don't think the Mac Portable is capable of displaying color. I had the idea to convert one to a //c+ portable, but never was able to do it. Now with 3D printing I think a new design would be feasible.

[@Anangelspath]

Fantastic build, thumbs up and subscribed. What did you do with the color LCD's menu buttons? I did a similar build with a Tandy 200 and couldn't decide howto incorporate the menu button circuit board so I left it out and used the infrared remote that was included with the LCD. I like your way better, please explain.

[@ARCJavMaster]

I may have missed the part where I built the controls, but is pretty easy: removed the springs and solder a small cable, glued the bare cable on the side and that activates the button. Simple and easy.

[@Anangelspath]

@@ARCJavMaster The best solutions usually are, thanks again for the wonderful content look forward to seeing more of your videos.

[@Anangelspath]

@@ARCJavMaster And thanks for the Meguiar's PlastX tip, I never thought of that.

[@geekwithsocialskills]

@@Anangelspath Same here. I've only ever used Novus 1, 2, 3 for computer plastics and the Meguiar's PlastX on vehicle headlights. Nice tip on that one for sure!

[@TheGodfather2504]

Great work and thanks a lot for the video The is Brilliant, can you tell me from were can I get this Reverse monitor so I start my project to

[@ARCJavMaster]

www.ebay.com/itm/223525073241

[@TheGodfather2504]

@@ARCJavMaster thank you very much for the help I will update you with my project when I finish it. to enrich the retro community

[@TheGodfather2504]

I have one question I saw this video last year and start it now, i need help can you tell me the pinout for the Video port? how do I know which wire go where ?

[@bobweiram6321]

It would be interesting to convert the original Apple //c monochrome CRT display to a color one using a same sized CRT. I've seen conversions using LCDs, but they look shoddy. The LCD doesn't follow the contour of the bezel and looks out of place.

[@ARCJavMaster]

unfortunately there’s no space inside for a color CRT, they are larger and have way more electronics. maybe if somebody created a custom one could work. also would gf expensive

[@vorkev1]

so lucky i would give what i could to get one of them.

[@MikieLAX]

Too hard to find and then too expensive; how about some 3D-printed covers for this project? Plus my C-VUE still works, so don't want to destroy its value.

[@ARCJavMaster]

I agree, check out my last live video, I have recreated the case in 3D, the STL's are available to my patrons.

[@devcybiko]

i'm planning to build one of these from scratch. do you have measurements so that i might 3d print the frame?

[@ARCJavMaster]

I would have to measure it, will contact you when to do that. Others have done smaller versions in thingiverse, maybe you can use theirs in the meantime

[@asgerms]

Even back in the 80s where I was totally enthusiastic about anything computer related, I was disappointed due to how much this display plain sucked. Simply had to return it to the shop after a couple of days. (most other computing experiences in those days were magic)

[@justmilo8694]

hey man i know it’s to comment but im redesigning the shell of your video and i have a prototype shell but i want to know what LCD you used so i can implement the screw holes into the design.

[@ARCJavMaster]

That LCD is very difficult to find, search AliExpress. It's a Car Rearview TFT LCD monitor.

[@justmilo8694]

@@ARCJavMasterthank you i’ll try to find it and let you know

[@DavidWonn]

At 12:05 the orange color looks authentic, yet from 15:19 onward it became yellow?

[@ARCJavMaster]

Is the angle, and remember ntsc artifacts may change a bit.

[@esseferio]

#360pTeam Yay ! :)

[@DatBlueHusky]

do you mind sharing the link or model of the new screen?

[@ARCJavMaster]

Can't find it anymore. Throw away the box 8 years ago when I made the conversion.

[@DatBlueHusky]

@@ARCJavMaster there should be numbers on the back of the lcd or just measure it and ill try to find it

[@DatBlueHusky]

@@ARCJavMaster there is a 3d model of the lcd now so thats why im wondering so i can build it

[@ARCJavMaster]

@@DatBlueHusky yes,☺ I did that.

[@DatBlueHusky]

@@ARCJavMaster oh thats you on fb lmfao

[@kiliane714]

Hi where I can find this flat panel ? thanks

[@rileyjudelson]

I’m selling one for $2,000

[@kiliane714]

@@rileyjudelson converted ?

[@rileyjudelson]

@@kiliane714 no, original

[@hstrinzel]

Conversion? But WHO own such a display in the first place. Could you BUILD A NEW ONE FROM SCRATCH? Should be much easier with modern microelectronics such as ESP32 or such? The case can be 3D printed in a similar enough color. With YOUR skill you could do this in a heartbeat and make some money from the volume, couldn't you?