Adventures in Surplus: From German Imperial Navy to Ethiopia

[@Hybris51129]

I would love to have a Lord of War style opening sequence showing this gun going from bare steel to German naval service, Weimar, Reich, East German, Ethiopia, and finally being handed to the main character at some rural gun shop.

[@Vtarngpb]

That would be sick

[@patrickholt8782]

Man I should have been buying Lugers in the 70’s rather than being -23 years old.

[@robosoldier11]

Ya simple mistakes like that will cost you. Should've been born earlier bozo. Seriously though it is obnoxious how much people have scalped prices that buying even a crap luger from the dusty shelf of some Ethiopian shed costs the equivalent of a modern pistol or rifle. Like common.

[@fsiradio]

Should have been better😅

[@redhead5222]

My feelings on transferable machine guns, I was lazy and 1 years old when they were banned.

[@rriflemann308]

Pre-existence purchases definitely should be made in the 1950’s poor non collectible Lugars were priced from 20$ to free.

[@seanparvis8568]

if you born even earlier you could have had them issued to you, or capture them....

[@fakjbf3129]

I love Ian’s visible excitement about the convoluted history of ownership and refurbishment this gun went through, just pure wholesome joy at finding extra layers to talk about.

[@bobhill3941]

It's the whole reason I came to his channel all those years ago.

[@cbsboyer]

See, this is why I watch Ian. Lots of people would look at that gun and conclude "mismatched junk", but now we know about this thing's long, hard, convoluted journey over more than a century and that's freaking awesome.

[@somebrains5431]

I would have concluded that Royal Tiger = unsafe to shoot mismatched junk.

[@austint7533]

I would have concluded that “numbers don’t matter rn, not rich, still have luger”

[@glennwhitehead6484]

Ian, I think you'll find that the top frame was made at Erfurt, the Erfurt Lugers all had the little "step" milled into the frame where the barrel joins the frame. DWM produced P.08s with the standard 4 inch barrel did not. The "step" is for the adjustable sight on the Artillery models. Or, since its been chopped and changed over the years, might have been an Artillery part originally. The lower frame with the Naval markings has to be DWM as well but a 1908 Naval model. The frame was slightly longer than the P08, on the original Naval models, 1904 and 1906.

[@phiipichut247]

Minor correction: it's Erfurt, not "Eurfurt".

[@glennwhitehead6484]

@@phiipichut247 Noted👍

[@golem5809]

Greetings from Erfurt 🙂

[@markhopkins1904]

Not to be a jerk or anything, but closer examination of 'proof/acceptance' marks indicate DWM.

[@glennwhitehead6484]

@@markhopkins1904 Yea, that's why I added that it could have been an Artillery reciever in the first place. I had a 1917 Artillery (DWM) and the type face of the date was exactly like the one in the video. It was the total mis matching of "bits" that can confuse, but that's half the fun with Lugers!

[@diegoferreiro9478]

It's fun and fascinating how tracing the different proof marks can tell the history of a gun.

[@bobhill3941]

That's why I love this channel.

[@rogainegaming6924]

So much history in such a tiny marking.

[@bobhill3941]

@@rogainegaming6924 I know, it's fantastic.

[@1982rrose]

That gun should have a TV show built around it. Stories of all the hands it went through over all those years & historical events.

[@zehnerdygamer3329]

Kind of like Winchester '73 with Jimmy Stewart

[@theiceman447]

It would be like the movie Heavy Metal with the loknar.

[@kentvesser9484]

Be funny though if it's history was utterly mundane. I see an animated film. It was never in any action except for being fired for training and was never drawn from a holster on duty. The people it passed through were all low level officers who had paperwork related jobs who never managed to end up in combat, and the police who carried it were patrolmen in quiet places where they never drew it either. When it would get to the arsenal for occasional refurbishment the first 50 years of its life all the other pistols would bully it for its lack of use. Then slowly all of its peers died worn out and cast aside, taken captive by a Soviet, English, or American soldier (Later we see some of those old pistols being bullied on target ranges where pistols named Makarov, Tokarev, Colt, Smith & Wesson, and Webley would pick on it for its German accent). Eventually it is one of the last pistols of its era in the rack at the armory, when it gets smeared in grease and stuffed in crate for a grand adventure in Africa. It arrives in Africa rejuvenated looking forward to an adventure in a great people's revolution, but instead ends up holstered for years or sitting in the back of some old warehouse. Finally one day as it gets really old and sick, another pistol donates its organs to keep it alive after an accident with shrapnel destroyed its lower frame. Then it was placed in the pistol nursing home in Ethiopia and forgotten until one day Gun Jesus found it.

[@alanburke1893]

​@@kentvesser9484 brilliant 😅

[@frankjames7272]

and it should be a black gun instead of gray.

[@Madcow42SS]

At 4:50 you indicate you can’t tell who manufactured the upper assembly because the toggle is missing, however you can tell from the font on the 1917 that DWM made this gun because the 7 is slightly more stylized on the Erfurt guns. I concur with all your other information only wanting to point out the WW2 Lugers did not retain the stock lug. Nice video. Thanks.

[@robviousobviously5757]

I hear the Grateful Dead... "What a Long Strange Trip it's Been "... wild

[@alanburke1893]

When i joined the Irish Army Reserve the first weapon i was issued was an ex-British Army Mk.4 Lee Enfield originally destined for pre-Nasser Egypt. Great gun for rifle marksmanship training. We later replaced them with FN FALs as Army adopted the Steyr AUG. Last i heard, our old Lee Enfields were sold to Indian police. No doubt some lost by now to Kashmiri separatists. Guns tell great tales.

[@SnoopReddogg]

I was working in Sana'a in Yemen about 10 years ago and lugers were fairly common in the markets in the old city. And C96's too. None of them were in particularly great condition, much like the external condition of that one. I'll have to dig up some pics to see if any have that bullseye style pistol grip. Given the history of Yemen, I wouldn't be surprised if a bit of East German military assistance came their way in the 60s & 70s

[@kevinthacker9866]

Your commitment to thorough research is amazing! Thank you!

[@distalradius8146]

I swear to god, Lugers have to be one of the deepest rabbit-holes you can fall into with gun collecting. There is like a near-infinite number of unbelievably subtle variations that only true experts (read: fanatics) can appreciate. Maybe someday I can afford a shooter-grade mixmaster.

[@yt.602]

One of those times mismatched serial numbers isn't a negative, but tells a story. Great that from the markings you've got such a wealth of information. Cool find.

[@justinbingham4420]

Thank you for providing more context to the media about firearms. Weapons are fascinating tools that have a starring role through all of our recorded history.

[@slick_slicers]

It would be great to have a pristine pre WWII Luger, but this is far more interesting as a study piece. I have a Japanese sword blade that I have been able to find it’s maker, each of its three owners and it’s battle history (I was going to say ‘honours’ but as they include both the Rape of Nanking and the capture of Singapore, that term feels wrong!). It’s not especially valuable, but it is fascinating.

[@RevMikeBlack]

I looked at the Royal Tiger listings for Lugers. Every one of them is an oddball... in a good way. I wouldn't think of any of them as a refined collectible. However, they do have a lot of "Mosin charm." The fun in owning one comes from curating its history and imagining the hands that it passed through on its way to yours. The fact that the Luger in this video served in four different armies is quite remarkable. When I look at my 1944 Mosin carbine, I find myself asking it, "Where have you been? What did you do? Did you get your owner through the war safely?"

[@ShootAUT]

Got a 90/30 with a shiny "new" Tikka barrel from 1944. But the hex receiver is beat-up on the outside, with a lot of old rust pits under the Finnish bluing. That thing was already old, and the markings already gone when it was rebarreled. I also sometimes wonder what story it could tell.

[@thegreatchickenoverlord5976]

Thats my biggest gripe. None of them are refined collectibles, and yet theyre almost all north of 1k

[@buncer]

Seeing as the person it was issued to, if they survived the war probably ended it east of the Iron Curtain, safe is a relative term but happy is a whole other question.

[@stefanmolnapor910]

​@@thegreatchickenoverlord5976and "rated" as Great condition

[@trooperdgb9722]

Feel the same about My Mosin Rifle... 1928 manufacture and very nicely made. I suspect refinished in recent times because its almost "pretty" for a rifle of that age. Shoots beautifully!

[@TE4358g]

Amazing story about the history of a pistol. I did not think they could be used for so long.

[@tsebuilder_wa3389]

This is what makes the channel great. Thanks

[@aarongossage5064]

Fascinating story. Amazing that it has survived.

[@AxeGaijin]

That's some cool gun archaeology.

[@erikcrouch7881]

05:37 That offhand comment about Mauser maker's marks.. You just reminded me of the provenance of the 1937 K98k my late father got! It seemed familiar til you mentioned S/42 and then it had me go dig it out. Thanks for that!

[@justdna4385]

I love that this gun has so much story to it.

[@johnschofield9496]

what a great presentation ! Ian, your work should be in the national archives, it's THAT important for history lovers ! Thank you !

[@reddevilparatrooper]

I bought a Luger at a gun show here in Las Vegas which was called a "Lunch Box" Luger. No serial number except for a # 2 on the rear toggle link and on the barrel which was in good shape was marked MADE WEST GERMANY. Shoots good and functions okay using commercial 115 grain FMJ ammo. Only shoot it occasionally and only cost me $300.00 in cash.

[@MortRotu]

That is a super cool piece of history, good job on working out it's journey!

[@brianalbrecht4423]

Thanks Ian...for all the digging into the past 4 the history on that perticular Luger...& 4 the choice of another Iconic firearm...!

[@CameronMcCreary]

This pistol has an Artillery Luger barrel extension. Notice the cut over the chamber towards the front. This cut was machined there to allow for clearance of the adjustable tangent sight on the longer barrel. The checkering on the take down lever is too fine; it's wrong.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Yeah, I am kicking myself for not noticing the LP08 notch. The takedown lever is correct; it's an East German made one and they were slightly distinct from other manufacturers.

[@Matt_The_Hugenot]

This is what makes Lugers fascinating, they're so well researched.

[@joakimronnback2203]

Really cool story behind that Luger. Thanks Ian.

[@jamesclark6427]

I have what looks to be a Russian capture Luger. Made in 1940, still has the Waffenampts and all matching numbered parts which appear original. Definitely dip reblued. One X stamped above the serial number, no crossed out numbers, ribbed black Bakelite Russian grips. It runs perfectly with sufficiently powerful ammunition. I did replace the recoil and striker springs with standard weight Wolff springs. Sight regulation is also perfect. It shoots like a laser beam. And you can see where a presumably Russian bullet just clipped the edge of the trigger guard near the magazine release. 😛 The radius of the impact site exactly matches a .30 caliber slug, which the Russians would have been throwing at the invading Germans as fast as they could. The three magazines with it were done for. One was German WWII production, but the other two were mysterious unmarked examples with stainless steel bases and followers. New Mec-Gar mags with Wolff +10% power springs in them work perfectly. Changing out Luger magazine springs is indeed a rather tedious delicate procedure, even with an arbor press and a specially machined punch. Now I know why no one wants to do it unless absolutely necessary... 😑

[@THOMASONEILL-k4h]

Lots of detective work. Speaking of which, have you ever looked into any domestic police armories? I had an informal peek into one (decades ago now) in a very large eastern US city. It was packed with Winchester Model 12's and 1200's; Racks of S&W revolvers; Thompson and Uzi submachineguns; and, literally a pile of M-2 Browning .50 cals. It has occured to me more than once that they could balance the city's budget with prudent sale of such a collection over time. Maybe you could offer valuation services on disposal - definitely work a cut of the proceeds in addition to a flat fee. Approach through the fiscal managers, not the cops. Cops never give up guns if they can help it.

[@totallynottheatfwinter4491]

Dam son that gun marched a many mile and sailed a many sea

[@bobhill3941]

Amazing video Ian, I learned so much. This is what drew me to your channel all those years ago and why I keep coming back. Fascinating look at very cool gun with amazing history.

[@stumpythedwarf8712]

The history of that example is wild. Thank you Ian.

[@ForgedHistory]

NOTE! The notch foward of the 1920 stamp. This was an artillery luger (the notch is the rear sight base) in 1917 and shortend to a 4 inch barrel at the end of WW1. I used to own a similar example. Post WW1 said pistols could not exceed 4 inches in barrel length. Even more history to this peice!

[@Ashcrash82]

This reminds me of what I learned after I acquired what looked to be a mixmaster Swedish military m/07 pistol. To be clear, it is a mix-master, but the frame tells quite a story. It was originally made on the civilian assembly line, destined to be a Model 500. It was pulled off that line and transferred to the Swedish military in the middle 1920s. However, it was not marked with any unit marks until the Swedish Air Force was formed, which was several years later. Somewhere along the way, it received a first-pattern slide, as it would have originally been a 3rd pattern (This is my best guess, there is a ton of murkiness here because of the way serial numbers were done). This apparently happened after it was imported into the US, as the frame has the bead-blasted dark gray finish that was often applied then, and the barrel chamber was modified to .380 ACP, but the slide is in what's left of the original finish.

[@russwoodward8251]

This is really great Ian. I appreciate the background story and research. A fascinating Lugar, all in itself.

[@TheFanatical1]

My favourite miniseries on this channel.

[@mohamadhassoun252]

Just to add that the locking bolt is an East German replacement typical of what you would see on a 1953 Ernst Thaelmann P.08 (New VOPO).

[@andersjjensen]

Some components are as old as 106 years. It's seen 4 governments and god knows how many soldiers have been issued these two pistols now merged into one.

[@ALEKOS19791]

This must have been a very pleasant experience for you! Good job!

[@munsunsnight]

We love this channel, kudos Ian!

[@RSBurgener]

My grandfather gave me a toy replica Luger when I was a kid and made sure I understood what it was. I think he felt it was important. He served in Germany after the war when he was 18. So I would absolutely love to have one of these and keep it in the family.

[@ericsundell9978]

cool gun! What a history! This is the kinda stuff I love about old guns and why I enjoy collecting them.

[@luanfonseca5179]

this luger changed hands more than a MG 42 Changes barrels

[@thatguyoverthere9634]

That has to be the single best gun, in terms of overall condition, RTI dug out of the mud in Ethiopia. Its stupid how much they want for their lugers. $2k and up for guns so pited the stampings are illegible. Ive bought two german lugers fairly recently for less than 2k for the both of them and they are in 2-4x the condition these things are in and they have matching numbers.

[@robosoldier11]

exactly. Again they are just scalping people for the equivalent of garbage or at least just sub par stuff. Rather intriguing garbage cause naturally as a collector stuff like this does draw the eye. However its not like these are pristine condition. Or even decent. Often times it again feels like false advertising because they show and grade something in one way but also in description tell another and I've read from people you could literally get stuff ranging from mediocre to bad to good. Its too sporadic and too random to be asking a thousand plus dollars for the chance to maybe get old historical decent gun? Give me a break.

[@oldesertguy9616]

Yeah, this thing is interesting, but not 2k interesting. It's basically a mismatched Luger that was further mismatched, then given no real maintenance or care.

[@tombogan03884]

Ridiculous prices for beat to crap parts guns.

[@Pavia1525]

RTI are criminals.

[@wlewisiii]

@@tombogan03884 It's so much fun listening to monkey spanking children who have no clue about history. 🤣🤣

[@gregcozier2427]

Easiest way to spot PO4s at a glance is the larger radius on the front of the frame that is bored for the disassembly lever.

[@MrHowardPhillips]

No thank you. RTI sold me an M1 Carbine which had zero finish except under the wood and muzzle erosion approaching 8, and called it VG condition. The thing was actually dangerous to shoot (not my quote, that's from Fulton Armory). Before you lay down your hard earned money, remember Ian went to RTI and hand selected the Luger you see, does it look like a $1200 gun to you?? It sure as hell doesn't to me.

[@jearlblah5169]

the fact that this thing has been around for the, and used in, the most major wars in history is crazy. Its over a 100 years old!!!

[@kradikt666]

The interesting stuff you learn from Ian is great

[@salvadormelendez9749]

It's because of educational videos like this one that I keep coming back. Thanks!

[@pithicus52]

Amazing that so much of the history of the gun can be reconstructed for the markings. I wish I had the resources/knowledge to do the same. I have a P-38 that has the opposite problem. The frame is the only part that has a serial number and nothing has any proof mark.

[@owenminor]

Fascinating. Thanks for posting this.

[@WalterWild2]

I slept through my alarm clock ⏰ but your vid notofication woke me up thank you sir

[@craigsavarese4554]

I bugged my dad for years that I wanted a Luger. He got me a P-38. I am great full and will never sell it. However, what hurts is that he fell for Mitchell’s Mauser’s hype and got a “ceremonial” cased one and for what they charged him, he easily could have purchased a very decent Luger.

[@onmilo]

I was going to type that the VOPO PP Pistols are marked 1/1001 but you hit it spot on so I will shut up now.

[@danferguson4004]

Now that was complicated! That's amazing that you can figure it out

[@JGCR59]

Ernst-Thälmann Werke were basically an amalgam of what was left in Suhl after WW2, so these were in fact the same workshops that produced Lugers before and during WW2, only under new name and management. Plus much of the tooling went east and much of the skilled workforce went west of course

[@bkilpatrick68]

Does the notch in the barrel extension just forward of the dates indicate that part came from an artillery model making room for the tangent sight?

[@VegasCyclingFreak]

Wow this Luger has a very colorful past!

[@PremeTeamTX]

This is the content I'm here for.

[@BIG-DIPPER-56]

What a smorgasbord of history all in one gun!

[@pripjatyfighter3786]

Thanks for the really interesting episode! I always wonder, that if some old gun can talk what interesting life story that she could tell. This Adventures in Surplus episodes is almost do this thing for me, thanks Ian! (ps. please do more video like this.)

[@cedhome7945]

I've got a feeling that ian could read the back of a breakfast cereal box and find something interesting 😁

[@realQuiGon]

I love these stories that those guns can tell!

[@oconnorcm]

Super interesting

[@zakk4321able]

This is the type of stuff that’s amazing to realize what has happened in history

[@alexanderwhite8320]

When mismatched gun in somewhat rough condition is more interesting story than sterile museum piece. A P04 with DDR grips

[@danjohnston3422]

I very faintly hear Johnny Cash singing "I've Been Everywhere"...

[@schiltronmunitions3820]

Yeah...been looking at those on Royal Tiger for a few days now and keep talking myself out of it. At least for now.

[@GetTheFO]

Probably for the best. As others have said, the quality of these pieces are not good. Save your money and look a little harder into private sales, I picked up a 1916 with all matching numbers in fantastic condition for 1.2k not but two months ago. Unless you’re purchasing one of these for the specific history… I don’t see the point.

[@lovetricia]

Imagine how many bodies is on that gun. You have parts from 4 or 5 different guns from 2 different world wars plus police service there's no telling how many bodys. Probably anywhere from 10 to a 100 I would guess.

[@martinmoffit8950]

RTI graded it excellent to pristine!

[@stefanmolnapor910]

$3,500! Probably lol

[@remko1238]

This gun deserves its own a feature movie

[@michaeldunn7716]

This is so interesting! Huge part of history.

[@nealgold8442]

Great video and very informative.

[@JerryEricsson]

I kick myself every damn day for trading off the Luger I picked up in the 80's. I was a cop back then and wanted a wonder 9, couldn't get off for a gun show nearby so sent my Luger (pristine in the original holster with cleaning rod and spare mag) to the show with a local dealer. He brought me back a Radom for the trade. I had no idea what a Radom was and rejected it, but my Luger was gone, he gave me an old sporterized Enfield instead of the Radom. Oh for the guns I once owned.

[@TMFShooting]

Luv the Luger's , Great Video Ian 💯💥💥💥💥💥💥💥

[@markhopkins1904]

Great video! Thanks Ian! The 'proof/acceptance' marks on the right side of the receiver are unmistakable - it is a DWM (see Aaron Davis, 'Standard Catalog of Luger'). The 'S/42' on Toggle is manufature's code for Mauser between 1935 to 1938 (and very,very early 1939 - changed from 'S/42' to just '42' then, of course, to 'byf' in 1941(1934 had 'Gothic 'S/42')).

[@Miguel_Sanchez69]

I love the video and history of the Luger, but your mic quality sounds like it comes directly from a Volksempfänger ;) Gear up my friend.

[@hdibos201]

Really a forgotten weapon indeed!

[@Insanabiliter_In_Linea]

Apologies if you mentioned this and I just wasn't paying attention, but I've never seen a Luger with a disassembly lever with that shape before, usually the "button" is perfectly round and it doesn't have that sort of curved cut leading down off of the button itself, it's usually a 90 degree angle. Is that an early variant or something? Can't find any images of one with a disassembly lever like that anywhere.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

That's an East German made takedown lever; they are slightly different from the other makers. You can see pictures of them in "The Parabellum is Back!" by Baudino and van Vlimmeren.

[@billechols7136]

The history of that luger is very interesting.

[@jensenwilliam5434]

Thank s

[@pedrotheswift5937]

Great vid tracing the history.. I do wonder what the 72 etched behind the safety protrusion means..

[@throttleblipsntwistedgrips1992]

Would it be possible for you to do a video on the Landstad magazine fed revolver? Two shot cylinder, and 6-round box mag, chambered in 7mm Nagant. Not sure how rare they are and how easy it would be to get one to film, but I know if anybody can do it, it's Gun Jesus. Happy early Thanksgiving and Christmas to the F.W. family. Thank you for preserving and explaining some really cool history.

[@davidtaylor8822]

Wow! Now that's history!

[@HolyPire]

Nice history storry!

[@Lostinthesand]

Hi Ian. Great video. The Navy Luger with its back sight and front sight are totally different from the PO 8 and Artillery Models. I have a shooter and I realized, besides the small back sighting notch, the front sight ramp fits perfectly bracketed in the adjustable rear sight. Raising the front sight to fill the square of the back sight, puts the upper post sitting above the back sight. It acts as a military post. With the shoulder stock on, 100 meter and 200 meter shots can be achieved with good consistency on a man sized target. On a pitching deck of a war ship or boarding boat, this gives the shooter advantage of good suppression fire.

[@Starless85]

Liking and commenting, going to watch on Weapons and War

[@joohat]

Pretty sneaky thumbnail, Ian... 😏

[@PrototypeSpaceMonkey]

This gun has been through the wars. All of them.

[@JoshuaC923]

Wow what piece of history

[@Metalgearmadness]

So I was debating about getting one of these but RTI is not a very good company. They sold me an "A" grade Enfield No4 Mk1 with "no pitting or cracks" from this Ethiopia batch. What I got was a B grade enfield with a pitted to hell bolt and a cracked upper stock. They are replacing the bolt and upper handguard at least. I also ordered some turkish ammo of "high quality" and it is literal garbage, hangfires and light loads in every box.

[@JamesThomas-gg6il]

Leave it to Ian to pick up the rattiest looking ,mismatched luger...and it has the coolest story of all.

[@davidbrennan660]

The DDR Zoll ( customs ) used lots of these as well as VOPOs.

[@Niels_Dn]

Is that a ww2 Luftwaffe eagle on the left hand side of the toggle mechanism?

[@jasonwooden]

I have an Ernst Thalman Makarov, beautiful firearm (for a Makarov anyway).

[@richardturk7162]

Very interesting.

[@Two4Brew]

Have you come across one of the Stoeger .45 ACP Lugers?