ae86 Dyno FULLY WORKED 4age/7age Build Part 8

We've finally got the new engine in the car and ready for the dyno, we find out how much power this thing makes and take it out for a drive.
Spec List:
7age crank
spool rods
CP Pistons 12:1 comp
TRD Head gasket
ARP Fasteners
Supertech Stainless Valves Atlantic Spec +1mm intake +2mm exhaust
Supertech Valve Springs 60lb seated pressure
Titanium Retainers
Kelford 193 HVA Cam's 290/282 10.3/10.1
Fully Ported Head
Black Top 20v Throttle Bodies
Toda 4-2-1 headers
light weight flywheel

[@DannyZiegler86]

Came for the noises, was not disappointed. Think I'm going to head out to the garage on wrench on mine now lol.

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Danny Z thanks man, these are my favourite comments when someone gets motivated by my content 👍

[@feral4mr2]

Yeah it sounds awesome!

[@WinstonSmith1997]

This is next level PHD engine building. 180.8 hp on the dyno Holy shit mind blown

[@NEVER-LIFT]

It’s an awesome experience behind the wheel too

[@albertoratti5159]

180HP to the wheels? @@NEVER-LIFT

[@tech-u-niques7031]

Been watching the videos. Would really like to say thanks for the effort put into making these. The engine builder really knows what he is doing. Been reading the comments, yes the 7a doesnt make a ton of hp, but the wide powerband and torque is something to consider.

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Thanks for the support man. I'm very content with the power but we have discussed upgrading the exhaust as the current 2 inch system is the restriction and this motor definitely has a lot more to give

[@deanreynolds5600]

I’m a bit late to the party but recently found your build log and been catching up. Really nice build and some great pointers from all the videos that I’ll be taking on board for my own engine build. Also like the fact you are running DBW as well! Top stuff! 👍

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Dean Reynolds yeah thanks man, definitely not many 86’s around like it👍

[@garrettdlouhy5531]

Sounds snarky like the 1.6 but more jam. I love this

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Thanks man 😄

[@TheBillzilla]

Very nicely done! Billzilla.

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Thanks Billzilla, I'm a fan of your work too👍

[@seblo8462]

Back in the late 90s-early 2000s if anyone was getting 150+rwhp from an NA 16v 4ag that was very respectable, the only dudes getting 180hp+ were the serious road racers and the ones boosting, but 4ag's are not too boost friendly lol

[@zerodeath3377]

im impressed by the license plate saying Takumi

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Hahaha thanks mate

[@juangraniello7626]

Great job guys, thank you for being part of this journey and sharing all

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Juan Graniello no worries bro thanks for watching 👍

[@juangraniello7626]

Thanks, what type of ECU are you using.

[@NEVER-LIFT]

@@juangraniello7626 haltech elite 1500

[@fredio54]

Bad advice around 10:42 and a bit after: You don't pick your shift point from the torque curve, you pick it from the power curve. What you want is highest average power between shifts. If your torque is falling off in the top end and your power is flat lining at a high number, then you're still better off making all that power and shifting later pulling your post-shift power number up the curve further. Looking at the power curve, no way should you be shifting later than RIGHT before the limiter IF your goal is max acceleration. Shifting at 8500 means you're making 180hp give or take right to the end, and coming back in at about 140hp (6000 RPM) post shift depending on gear ratios. A bone stock blacktop is like that, best shifted right on the 8k limiter. Engines with that power curve shape really need a shift light as if you leave it 1 RPM too late and hit that limiter you lose a lot of lap time. Shift lights also keep your eyes on the road instead of the tacho, which is good for the longevity of your AE chassis and spinal cord.

[@nunuland69]

Nik!!! Great build loved the series, and bam, the power you made was very close to what I was expecting! She sounds killer, and looks extremely fun to drive!!! Thanks for sharing the content with all of us! Looking to see what’s next with ur hatch!!

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Thanks man, plenty more to come 😄

[@iamgerry86]

Sweet! I guessed 175 on your IG!

[@NEVER-LIFT]

iamgerry86 so close you must know your 7age’s well👍

[@OnTarmacChannel]

she's ripsss!!!! been there ,done there on oil splash thru intake.. try on extra breather on valve cover.. help a lots.

[@NEVER-LIFT]

On Tarmac Channel yeah been on the to do list for a while now it never ends lol. Thanks for the tip bro👍

[@TRDKhanbrothers]

Fork she sounds awesome man Congrats and hope to see more from this build, 180hp is really impressive

[@NEVER-LIFT]

cheers

[@GunniGST]

The shift points are torque curve and gear ratio dependant, it'll be different between each gear

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Mate it’s all irrelevant if you watch how I drive I’m constantly limiter bashing when I thrash it lol

[@mrflamewars]

I wonder if it's possible to 3D Print a transparent timing cover - so you could see the cam pulleys spinning but also protect the belt and engine. It would suuuuuck to smash valves because junk got in between the belt and the pulleys.

[@NEVER-LIFT]

There's a company called @zakleecorp who make them but they use the injection mold process which I think is the way to go👍

[@anthonyfato7488]

She’s a beaut!! Good job man👌

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Anthony Fato cheers 👍

[@feral4mr2]

Main oil drain is on the exhaust side of the head, tilt the engine more to that side for better oil return. It sounds wicked as f#ck!

[@NEVER-LIFT]

I’ve got an external head drain on the intake side too you can see it in part 4 I think but yeah like I said it’s not a problem on the street so I’m not too stressed

[@feral4mr2]

@@NEVER-LIFT yeah the one on the back inlet side of the head used on the smallport 4age is by default a crankcase breather. But does help a little for a drain. It sounds awesome man, be a blast to drive.

[@rollaguy9533]

Good result! Enjoy the car! :)

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Kolmiopää Kulmikas thanks man 😄

[@rauchekcara]

Insane build, I was guessing over 200hp at the flywheel. You need to show us what power this thing makes at the flywheel. And maybe try a tune up with full methanol. I am guessing 180kw or so.

[@NEVER-LIFT]

I was hoping for 200hp too and we might get it if I get a larger exhaust as we believe my 2 inch system is really choking it down. Not sure about methanol but nitrous sounds fun😁

[@anealsrikant9254]

hey bud nice 86 brotha, if you had to do it over again would you go for boost?

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Thanks man, as far as going boost I'm gonna have to say no. I'm really happy with the power this thing makes and the response and torque is awesome. Only thing I'd do different is a 2 litre stroker kit and dry sump but I just didn't have the budget at the time of this build.

[@anealsrikant9254]

@@NEVER-LIFT cool bud diff understand. love sound of the mighty 4a

[@NeilCorbinRacing]

Looks like it's working great and is easy to drive on the road with a solid torque curve. What gearbox are you using? If it's the T50 be kind as they don't take too much abuse.

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Neil Corbin I’m running a w58 but we are discussing switching back to a t50 with a TRD gear set

[@NeilCorbinRacing]

@@NEVER-LIFT W58 is quite strong from all that I have heard. I broke a TRD gear set with a stock 20v so I wouldn't recommend going there with your current setup. I have also used a straight cut dogbox from Finland that works with the T-50 housing and that was very strong but not as great for street driving. If you're looking for better gearing you could also consider the final drive?

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Neil Corbin oh ok good to know I’ll keep that in mind thanks man

[@86Spain]

did the dipstick jump because of blowby? heard it could happen, but never seen it before what a beautiful number at the wheels 😍😍

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Hachiroku Spain I’m running the factory breather so upgrading than may help

[@NEVER-LIFT]

That*

[@decoyla]

one day. i will start my 7age 20v transformation

[@NEVER-LIFT]

decoyla mate I’m keen to see it👍

[@Garage95Engineering]

Same here, aiming for 220 at the wheels.

[@NEVER-LIFT]

@@Garage95Engineering are you going turbo?

[@Garage95Engineering]

NA but I will push it high. 4AGE is capable of 265bhp with crazy mods, 220 from 7AGE isn't cheap but it's duable. Blacktop head, 5 axis CNC ported, cams, high CR, lightweight cranktrain + dinamically balanced, proper EFI hardware and tune etc

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Raw Steel mate I’d be impressed if you pull it off, I’m excited to see how it goes 👍

[@SteelSub]

Put some 75mm velocity stacks on there!

[@NEVER-LIFT]

SteelSub I’d love to but they won’t fit under my intake plenum. Maybe if I did a custom plenum it may work 🤷‍♂️

[@SteelSub]

@@NEVER-LIFT the pipercross plate for bt20v would work but filter mesh will need to be dented in to clear the brake booster

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Yeah that’s a good point, might be an idea for the future 👍

[@basti1255]

would you try longer stacks? tourque curve looks not very nice. thanks for sharing. enjoyed watching! :)

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Only reason I’m running 50mm stacks is because that’s all I can fit I’m my plenum, if I had a larger plenum I’d go 100mm. I’d like to get a less restrictive exhaust as we believe that’s hurting power 👍

[@basti1255]

@@NEVER-LIFT inlet resonance waves do a big part as well as the header design. (You want to benifit from the second and third waves) Maybe even longer stacks 100+ should be concidered But anyway you are big big steps ahead of what im doing to my 4ag right now ☺️

[@NEVER-LIFT]

@@basti1255 I'm also limited by space between throttle no 4 and the brake booster, what are your 4age plans?

[@basti1255]

@@NEVER-LIFT oh yes you're right.. smaller brake booster could help a bit but anyway not too much space there with rhd. I plan to build a fun to drive >100hp/litre 4ag . Smallport head, light porting, seats cut. Just ordered Traum Pistons 11.5 CR (should bump to about 12:1 with 0.8mm squish clearance. Intake cam 262° 9mm catcams Exhaust cam hks 8.2 264° 45mm itb, long stacks 7 rib without oil squirters ( i am a bit worried about that, maybe i should drill an piston oiling hole in the china conrods) Yea.. and i got a martelius group A header EMS v4 ECU Want to go old school with distributor. I really dont know if that all will work out for now.

[@NEVER-LIFT]

basti1255 sounds really cool man, my engine doesn’t have oil squirters and we actually prefer it that way. Have a look at part 4 we talk about it a little bit 👍

[@stephonthomas3336]

Thought it would of made more with e85

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Me too but the exhaust is restricting it so until I get a bigger exhaust I think this’ll be the limit

[@pauly1605]

Oiling issue was a surprise - are the baffles removed from the covers?

[@NEVER-LIFT]

No it was running stock breathers, I’ve since upgraded

[@seanosborne1301]

Any info on the air box? Great build and super informative series!

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Thanks man!!! it's just a stock ae86 air box and I had a snorkel from a rt142 Corona, it was a good setup when I was running a standard 4age but now that the engine wants more air its not ideal. We think the restriction is in the silicone joiner as it reduces the size of the pipe to fit the air box. I've also drilled some big holes on the underside of the box to help it breath but clearly wasn't enough.

[@fredio54]

What is your battery bolted to that it flops around so much?? :-D It and the bonnet stay were doing a bit of a dance on the regular. Are you planning to track the car at all (as in circuit or drift, not strip)? If so you'll want to do better things with your breather setup. Matt seems to know his stuff around that and can probably help you make it track worthy. Right now though you simply don't have enough flow out of the engine to cope with the levels of blowby you're creating. Could settle down once it's run in though, I suppose. Cable tying the dip stick down just puts pressure on all of your seals :-D

[@miggzcamacho7069]

That's proper mate 😍 😍 😍 😍

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Miggz Camacho thanks mate I’m glad you enjoyed it 👍

[@miggzcamacho7069]

@@NEVER-LIFT I did bud, that's manly hp right there and totally worth all the effort you put in. Hope when mine is done it pulls just as good as this

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Miggz Camacho yes that’s hp, we believe the exhaust is restricting the engine and we should be able to make more when we free that up. Are you building a 4a or 7a?

[@miggzcamacho7069]

@@NEVER-LIFT keen to see what the new exhaust does. Naa mate I'm tired of 4ages lol I keep breaking them, doing beams now

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Miggz Camacho yeah me too, I’m just hoping the new exhaust sounds the way I like I’m really happy with how it sounds ATM. Yeah hard to hate on a beams 👌

[@Rifaatmoses]

Been following the build from part 1, love the channel very informative. If i may ask what is the compression ratio on the engine?

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Rifaat Moses hey man thanks for the support the comp is 12.7/1

[@Rifaatmoses]

@@NEVER-LIFT by increasing the comp you should see massive gains but you probably wanna keep it on pump gas

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Rifaat Moses yeah I’m running on pump but I also have a flex fuel sensor so I can also run e85 although there wasn’t much gain with e85 🤷‍♂️

[@Rifaatmoses]

@@NEVER-LIFT good to know bro. With higher compression the gains will be more rewarding on Ethanol. I've also seen more gains going to E95 over E85. Cheers

[@NEVER-LIFT]

@@Rifaatmoses oh cool good to know, who knows what the future holds, if I can get e85 anytime in my area I might rebuild the engine with a higher comp and just run ethanol full time but for now I'm very happy the engine 👌

[@kyrst75]

What's the brand of the air plenum Nikko?

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Nobby Booth

[@tetris7518]

Hey I was 2hp off!

[@NEVER-LIFT]

lol well done 👍

[@damonduckett2982]

What causes the dip stick to pop out?

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Crank case pressure, I have since upgraded the breather and catch can setup so it shouldn't be a problem anymore

[@richardtpgusa7236]

I'm not to good nor have the time to track people down, but if you have any upcoming, high rev jobs; I have a couple pieces you MAY like, hidden away. Unfortunately the mfg of V-train you use; I do not. I still mfg my own crap, in the time I have between work and sleep. I have no clue, but you guys know your way around YT. This is not a sales call, this is a don't reinvent the wheel call, it's just that people have their spare tire hidden...........................LOL

[@sixhunt]

haha knew it was the dipstick and it being tied down :D :D what max timing do a end up putting in ?

[@NEVER-LIFT]

sixhunt yeah you have to be switched on to know that and I’m not sure on the max timing I’ll have to check with Mat

[@sixhunt]

@@NEVER-LIFT :D . cheers man, i remember him saying early in the vids he aims for around 30 degress with 230psi cranking compression, but was just interested what he ended up with.

[@NEVER-LIFT]

sixhunt spoke to Mat last night and he said max timing he put into it was 34.4 deg👍

[@sixhunt]

@@NEVER-LIFT cheers mate !

[@renosymonds4573]

sweet bro love it, but i got a question can a 20v black runs on a 5 a block?

[@copperfoxx2381]

No

[@danielsanchezlopez1108]

Hello, what do you think about the Kumho HS51 tires? Do they grip well on dry and wet ground? Thanks!

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Yeah I’m really happy with them great value for money grip well wet and dry but they are getting old now, not much tread left and I’ve had them for about 6 years so they don’t inspire much confidence anymore lol I’ll probably do a shop around and if it’s not too much extra I’ll go Michelin or Bridgestone but if the price difference is too much I’ll definitely get the kumho’s again 👍

[@danielsanchezlopez1108]

@@NEVER-LIFT Thanks!!

[@suronsoon8913]

That is dangerous with your hand in a 9000rpm, running engine, imagine the fan belt gave way...

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Suck it right up

[@suronsoon8913]

Yea if you sell your t shirt, I’m willing to buy one....cheers bro

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Suron Soon sweet I’ll have to get onto it

[@zero_to_1000]

why not just put the front up on jack stands.

[@NEVER-LIFT]

It wasn’t a problem after we noticed because he wasn’t holding consistent rpm for long periods of time he was just doing power runs for the rest of the day. And we were too lazy to get out the jack stands And it looks cooler on the ground 😂

[@Rob_Green]

Awesome mate. Is it 180hp on e85?

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Yes it is but it doesn't really make much difference as my engine is restricted by the 2 inch exhaust and I haven't unlocked the full potential of this motor yet. it would probably make a bigger difference when I really start pushing the limits

[@damonduckett2982]

What ecu are you running?

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Haltech elite 1500

[@SueHairiechannel2503]

20v or 16v

[@yosoydpfknr2855]

Its a beautiful engine and im not hating but it dont worth it, 175 hp or whp hell no, why not just use a 2zz or even a 20v. To much money for that low number. I'd say make that baby turbo.

[@NEVER-LIFT]

YoSoyD PfknR I like the way you think 😁 We believe my engine is capable of a bit more power but my exhaust is choking it down. As you can see peak power was made at 7.5k rpm and it’s not knock resistant. We could probably make 200hp in the future but I’m quite happy with how it’s driving for now👍

[@TheNicoxoxD]

@@NEVER-LIFT engine has stock cams?

[@NEVER-LIFT]

matizu no I’m running kelford 193hva cams which have 290/282 duration and 10.3/10.1 lift

[@TheNicoxoxD]

@@NEVER-LIFT I see, those are pretty agressive cams I supose, thanks for the info

[@NEVER-LIFT]

matizu yeah that’s what I thought but now that I’ve driven it I’ve changed my mind, the car is very drivable on the street and feels great in the low end of the rpm (heaps of power and torque)

[@nickylemoodley4692]

What made you go the 16v route?

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Nickyle Moodley I just like them and personally I don’t think it matters much if you go 16v or 20v when you are gonna modify them to this extent

[@bajanboyhood]

@@NEVER-LIFT think you would have made a bit more 20v route

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Ricardo Yearwood we will make more power with this engine in the future, we believe the exhaust is restricting the engine at the top end as it’s only 2 inch

[@muhammadiskandar3257]

Currently whats your max rpm.? 8500rpm.?

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Muhammad Iskandar yes but peak power is at 7.5k we just set the limiter a little higher

[@muhammadiskandar3257]

Nice job. I did a 7AGE 20V. Currently my oil temp keep going up even on normal driving. Did you monitor your oil temp.?

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Muhammad Iskandar my oil temp usually sits below 100 degrees and I’ve never had any problems with my temps

[@muhammadiskandar3257]

@@NEVER-LIFT : Do you have cooler.? How about on dyno also below 100c.?

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Muhammad Iskandar yes I’ve got a cooler, I give you a quick look in part 5. I’m not sure on temps on the dyno but the cooler is very effective when it has airflow as I’ve mounted it right on the vent and we had the fan running the whole time

[@lewdog9647]

Did you do any adjustments to the cam timing?

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Lewis Kitney I think I remember Mat doing an adjustment but I was busy doing something else, if he did it was only minor

[@suronsoon8913]

So 135kw for a 7age engine...

[@vikramkoodoye1418]

for 200.. Bigport more suitable

[@NEVER-LIFT]

vikram koodoye we ported the head extensively and believe the exhaust is choking the motor down. With a free flowing exhaust we think 200hp is possible

[@SueHairiechannel2503]

20v or 16v

[@NEVER-LIFT]

16