Aerobic Heart Rate Training Myths: Running Zones and Intensity | Coach Sage Canaday Training Talk!

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#aerobicrunning #heartratetraining #higherrunning

[@shakenespresso]

Love the subtitles! Appreciate all the extra work that goes into adding these to your videos!

[@tyresejackson9665]

Thank you for taking the time to address this subject!

[@runningwithdr.andrewdpt9177]

Great video and advice. I agree with conversational pace. Thank you for sharing!!

[@Kelly_Ben]

This was fascinating, thank you! I'm a recovering MAF runner 😆, having been a slave to the numbers the last 2 years... but the numbers never made sense. My HR during marathons and 50ks was around 165, but I was relaxed and chatting, while keeping my easy runs to around 140 was a shuffling slog. My pace slowed and my form crumbled, though I did build a great base and get control of my asthma. I finally went to 80/20 with perceived exertion when I found out that most of the testing, formulas etc are male specific 🤬 and males generally have a lower heart rate... so I'd been holding myself to a standard that wasn't working for me. I'm glad I tried it, though, it finally got me running easy days easy.

[@MNP208]

Same. I go from 130 to 165 very quickly and seem to stay there. I can have a conversation while running in the 160s. If I used 220 - age, I would be walking most of the time. Females have smaller hearts and lower blood volume. Our hearts need to pump faster to deliver blood to our muscles.

[@Kelly_Ben]

@@MNP208 I wish I'd chatted with you a year ago!! It would have saved me a lot of confused frustration! 🤣

[@dann5480]

Yes, actually females are not supposed to run. They are supposed to cook and take care of household chores.

[@shady1080]

Love the training talks 🙌

[@dimitris7505]

A useful reminder not to be slaves to technology!🤘

[@JessieInTheSky09]

The captions are highly appreciated

[@copperdan7667]

After a 12 year break in running I started running again one year ago. (Im 48.) Im now at 45 miles per week. I don't use a heart rate monitor. Just monitor breathing and effort. I do have a Garmin now but for the first six months I ran "naked". Lol. Just from my own observations I have noticed my minute per mile time has dropped a full minite on easy runs over the year. That makes me think i must be doing things correctly. Grandmas Marathon in June.

[@stefanofederici1001]

@Vo2maxProductions I just want to commend you for how much of an impact your training plans make. I got the 10k plan last year and have since done the advanced half marathon plan this year twice over. (marathon plan bought and ready for July start). Since training with your plans I have dropped from a 19.25min 5k to a sub 74min half marathon. These plans have given me gains on my club mates comparable to a pair of super shoes. Thanks coach Sage & Sandy! from St. Albans UK

[@pitwill9]

I can’t spit out an entire sentence when I’m at an easy pace lol. Just me though my wife could read a book. I will say that breathing is the easier way to tell for me. If I’m breathing almost like I do when walking I’m at an easy pace. Still can’t talk much though because I tend to hold my breath when moving and talking lol

[@dfmitchell330]

Great video. I just got a Vo2 max test done in a university lab and discovered my max HR was 172. The 220-age formula put me at 184. Pretty big difference, so I'm glad I got the test done to determine that my max HR is actually 12 BPM lower than the formula estimate.

[@JoshL84]

My easy pace changes depending on the weekly mileage and effort. I don't put much trust into the wrist based HR monitors and prefer just to go based on my breathing effort.

[@dansouth2088]

Good luck at TGC!!!!

[@derekwood8184]

I have got 99.9% accurate HR from my polar H9 strap meter... by.... SOAKING the strap in water before putting it on. putting on a thoroughly wet strap means I simply do not get glitches any more (I certainly used to with a dry strap). and yes I do have a chest rug.

[@winty2721]

Thanks again Sage I’ve recently spiked up by up to 10-15 BPM during my efforts. My resting heart rate is 156 bpm I just don’t understand why. Im trying to slow down but that would probably mean walking. I hope my aerobic strength improves. It’s interesting to listen to your thoughts as always. 👍

[@KarstenM.]

Did you maybe catch a flu or something? It could also be overtraining or you didnt drink enough. I had a huge spike once and later realized, that I donated blood the day before.

[@250txc]

Sounds good to me ... I trained with a HR monitor ~30 yrs ago and have quit running now, but his words match what I learned back then pretty close with some tweeks made here ...

[@dazman1982]

Definitely believe this. HR on treadmill using chest strap lower than outside running with wrist based even though perceived effort is harder on treadmill. 8min mile outside around 165 8min mile on treadmill around 130

[@user-rl3ef4ju9k]

I need to put 3 degree uphill on my treadmill to mimic real life effort and HR.

[@tonyvu9459]

Same here. 9:30pace outside at 135-140bpm from chest strap is a 2/10 effort level while the same pace and HR on treadmill feels like 5/10. I theorized that it might have to do with staying cool so I installed a ceiling fan AND bought a box fan.. brought the perceived effort down a bit but still harder than outside!

[@Vo2maxProductions]

yeah that's way too big of a range. In theory (if you have a cooling fan and aren't too bored on a treadmill), the HR on a treadmill at 0% incline should be a good 5-10 beats lower compared to at the same pace outside due to lack of air resistance mainly. Then again a lot of treadmills aren't calibrated accurately either (and it gets hot and stuffy and the belt could slip etc).

[@dazman1982]

@@Vo2maxProductions I think Sage it's because outside it's more undulating so HR spikes continuous during run and my treadmill is at 1% incline. But also think chest strap is more accurate I should try an outside flat run with my chest strap same pace and see if it's technology or heat of being indoors

[@DavidC-rt3or]

Curious, if you know your baseline resting hr, could you use some percentage increase at least for zone 1/2 training (vs specific number ranges) wouldn't really help on the upper end though (cap end).. Seems zones are based on having to know the max and working backwards. I guess, you still would need to know the total range (bottom/top) though? Recently had a stomach issue (bug or maybe food poisoning?) and it was interesting to see the correlation between how I felt and the increased resting hr.. and roughly 48 hours later felt normal and resting hr was back to expected too..

[@i_would_but_i_wont]

Sage, does one of your training plans work for the Pikes Peak Ascent?

[@xXAnthony619Xx]

Easy for me is running completely comfortably. I’m running but I’m not pushing. A pace I feel I could keep for a long time without gassing or discomfort.

[@erickienle]

Do you think it’s more beneficial to train in higher elevation at a cooler temperature, versus a lower elevation w a hotter/ higher humidity? I’m originally from Florida, I currently live in Montana. I felt I did better in mountainous races living in Florida and training versus, having all the vert in the world but with lower temps. Thoughts?

[@martinbrinkmoller7396]

Training Talk Question: TLDR: What kind of run would you suggest to keep some running-conditioning in a season with focus on an other sport (cycling)? Long version: My main sport ambition is in long distance cycling, but for this winter I decided to have a 3 month running block each winter as it is more fun to run in winter conditions. As I didn't run much for 5 years, I had to build slowly to now about 40k running a week (and still some cycling). My goal is to finish the running block with a half marathon and then go back to mainly cycling. However, I don't want to have to start from 0 again with running next winter, so I want to maintain 1-2 runs (1 easy, one more dedicated) a week throughout the year. What kind of run do you think is best suited to maintain some running form over a longer time with no focus on running? I think/hope the answer might also be intresting to some pure runners, who maybe have a hard time at work/family and need to cut down running for a while and want to remain some form with little time effort.

[@MultiThunder1234]

I'm going to be doing a Vo2 max test soon but primarily for me is I run to stay fit so I'm the least concerned about pace, to me, the RHR is far more important because if it goes down, it's good but if it goes up by more than 5 beats it's an indication that I might want to skip a day or two of training and focus on recovery and nutrition. It's definitely easier to get an accurate RHR than a Threshold HR

[@MiguelPalaviccini]

Love the new camera and video. I would crop out some more off the top … more sage, less wall!

[@megiMove]

My max heartrate has always been 235 since i was 18 and am now 35

[@lukeandjudeshow9274]

That seems really high but i get it because I'm 45 and mine has been just over 200 since i was 25. This is only really the maximum it reaches though, be rather than what it reaches at an effort i can maintain for a reasonable period of time.

[@michaelmoschitta174]

Been doing some MAF runs @ 125 HR, never seem to stick with long though

[@AlfredDsouza13]

Should we follow what watch recommend ..like coros gives Training loaf ?

[@paulschaaf8880]

I'm actually not a runner due to flat feet. I use an indoor rowing machine instead, but it seems like a lot of the advice I see on running would also apply to rowing. I couldn't find much coverage of low heart rate training on rowing pages. Anyway, it seems to me that the primary benefit of low heart rate training is the idea that you can do WAY more volume without hurting yourself. I'm wondering if there is a point of diminishing returns though. So far the most I have done is 600km in 1 month. I'm considering trying to do 1000km next month, and if I keep my pace low enough to maintain my heart rate below 125 I think that would probably take me about 2.5 hours a day. When I did 600km in a month I was not sticking to low heart rate so I was pretty exhausted. I was doing about 20-25k a day in about an hour and 30 minutes. This time I definitely plan on going slower.

[@BrianSez]

How would you recommend training for a complete beginner? I find it difficult to maintain the 'talk test' unless I do intervals of walking. Should I be running slower or continue to run-walk as I adapt?

[@seriousbees]

You should do 2 or 3 days of walk/run intervals per week if you can't yet sustain a slow jog while doing the talk test, and your "easy day" can be a brisk walk

[@sandiegojoey1]

My Garmin watch and my Oura ring record my lowest resting HR during sleep. Should I use that number as my resting HR when calculating my zones?

[@BobBob-uv9fq]

Best thing I did was start x training.way more motivated ,less impact ,more consistent.

[@madmaf6011]

Thanks Sage enjoyed that. So would you say that runners should avoid using HR as a fitness metric?

[@Vo2maxProductions]

No. I think it can be really good and effective actually (I monitor my HR almost every day). But one has to understand their relative values (and have have sensor errors). It doesn't shape my training too much, but it can be good data to examine overtraining ("overreaching") and recovery. Also for other health issues: For example, when I had my pulmonary embolism it was horribly elevated on my "easy run attempts" (and it wasn't because the strap was reading an error!). That should have been a red flag right there to buy a pulse oximeter or more elaborate heart monitor

[@madmaf6011]

@@Vo2maxProductions Thanks Sage.

[@mrandolph5481]

In week 8 of Higher Running's all in marathon plan. I'm a stats nerd, with wrist HR and occasionally a chest strap. Each run I track my hr vs pace (adjusted for elevation change). Occasionally the HR is in error, but most of the time I feel I'm getting an accurate number. I've been using pace in the plan, but I have enough background to know approximately what my Threshold HR is and how much I'm working at different HRs. For the same pace my HR has reduced from the beginning of Jan to now. The question I am wondering about now is given my HR vs pace dropping should I adjust my training paces to increase my HR, or just allow that my HR will be lower?

[@Vo2maxProductions]

hey thanks for your support of our Higher Running Training Plan! Generally for our road running plans if people have specific marathon time goals then they can go off of "goal race pace" (as well as the perceived effort and/or their HR values % zones). Generally I'd keep your Easy days pretty consistent and not speed them up (especially on higher mileage weeks and with harder Long Run workouts). However the Tempo/Uptempo sessions and Intervals could get a little faster over time (i.e. 5-10 sec/mile) as long as you are feeling like it is the right effort (and your HR data supports that). Congrats on the progression in fitness and keep up the great work!

[@mrandolph5481]

@@Vo2maxProductions Thanks for the advice, and I'm really enjoying the plan

[@stefanofederici1001]

@@Vo2maxProductions I just want to commend you for how much of an impact your training plans make. I got the 10k plan last year and have since done the advanced half marathon plan this year twice over. (marathon plan bought and ready for July start). Since training with your plans I have dropped from a 19.25min 5k to a sub 74min half marathon. These plans have given me gains on my club mates comparable to a pair of super shoes. Thanks coach Sage & Sandy! from St. Albans UK

[@juliusmotocikli]

What about running power, like Stryd?

[@anitahendrix7573]

Have gotten back to training. I am 80yo and use chest strap hrm my zone 2 is about 104 bpm can talk so guess this is about right. For me this is a brisk walk so walk with my 3dogs. At my age can do 20min so far hope to get up to 30min and go from there. Use to do 5ks a few years back but have had sit back due to back problems.

[@evanhadkins5532]

A less painful way to find max heart rate is a one mile walk test. (Rockport)

[@nrb5]

At what %hr max would vo2max be estimated or would you say vo2max is at hr max

[@CH4NNELZERO]

Thank you ! This is what I have always suspected but the MAF folks insisting the formula is "correct" just leads to confusion and self doubt. One thing that seems common is people talking about conversation pace. But I don't run with anyone 😭and I'm not a chatty person. Sometimes I talk to myself to check but it feels odd.

[@granddaddy_funk]

My heart rate will be around 175-185 when I can still pass the talk test. How should I proceed if my goal is stamina?

[@rahulbosebose1]

I just started trying low HR runs.. the recommended ranges for me feel much too slow that I cant run at that HR without changing running form to a plod.. I can run easier trying just feel or speak test.. but my HR monitor says I am still in high range. So question I have is do you keep your form on these easy runs?

[@yannickm1396]

That is probably because you are not used to running that slow. Just practise more and than it will feel more comfortable running at that slower pace.

[@whycantiremainanonymous8091]

I'm having trouble using the conversation test. First of all, I'm running on my own. But beyond that, I can reach relatively high (for me) heart rates and paces without feeling out of breath at all. I tried singing while I run. That caused some funny looks. That also caused my heart rate to go up by about 10 bpm on average compared to the same pace without singing, but I was singing along happily at 150 bpm (I'm in my late 40s...). I do have some experience as a singer, so maybe that throws the measurement off. Any other tips?

[@christopherbrand5360]

Try breathing in and out through your nose. You may be able to go pretty hard like with singing, but I find that my sense of effort is heightened when nose breathing.

[@whycantiremainanonymous8091]

@@christopherbrand5360 Thanks, but it's different for me. Nose breathing makes me relax, and pace goes down too. It's definitely a way to go slow while not feeling I'm slowing down, though 😃

[@ricHCarboCarbea]

Im running at 115bpm at 630mpk is that means i have to speed up the low heart rate im 43 im fit but sometimes i feel my easy pace is way to slow because i can no up my heart rate. Is that mean i have to do my easier run faster to get my heart rate between 120 135. My resting heart rate is 39

[@yannickm1396]

What is your max heart rate? Easy pace (zone 2) is at between 60% and 70% of max heart rate.

[@daxu9605]

The uneven camera is driving me nuts. :D

[@Copperfeel808]

Had the same problem, turned out I had a steering wheel in my pants.

[@sofiaasman5718]

My wrist watch claimed I went from 135 to 170 in one second, and then back down. I like training using my heart rate, but yeah, it's not very accurate.

[@yannickm1396]

My garmin at times has eror but usually it is fairly accurate. When i run over a small hill it goes up a bit. And than after a few steps of controling my breating and form it goes down again. I think its a really usefull tool. I have only been doing low heart rate training for the last week now and it keeps me in check and shows what running easy really feels like. Edit: Also i don't feel out of breath when running in the 160s bpm and that is not easy pace anymore. And i have never ran a marathon so i don't know my 1 min per mile slower than marathon pace. So in the past i thought i was running easy but really was not. Low heart rate training was a good reality check for me.

[@BobBob-uv9fq]

I’ve got a resting heart rate of 5 ?

[@Shevock]

With all the variation and limitations with devices measuring heartrate and individual differences, it really brings into question MAF and other heartrate based training systems. Maybe we should all go back to running by perception like Lydiard and all the old runners did.

[@Vo2maxProductions]

Yes, there's that. I have lots of issues with MAF in regards to other things as well

[@Kballen]

@@Vo2maxProductions I’m surprised at the number of people who try to use the formulas to determine their heart rate training zones. I know doing a self test isn’t entirely accurate but it has to be way closer. I find that heat and especially humidity cause my heart rate to increase significantly. I track my heart rate during runs to help as one more factor as I am judging effort.

[@lancealot4327]

Firm believer in knowing your body without looking at the numbers all the time. 180 minus my age does not equal my aerobic threshold. More like 195 minus my age. Use the breathing technique. If you can talk and carry a conversation you are in the clear in building that aerobic base.

[@shadowbanned4606]

4:20 Breathing rate is more important than heart rate.

[@Nonixification]

No, its not.

[@Combat_Carl]

@@Nonixification Yes, it is.

[@runsintheforrest1364]

Don't like the subtitles. They are very distracting. YT already provides generated once in case someone needs them.

[@BobBob-uv9fq]

I’ve got a resting heart rate of 5 ?