World of Warships: RTS Carrier Gameplay - Midway

[@Aerroon]

Here's a fun short clip about getting lucky: kzbin.info/www/bejne/imK4nIhqe7etbsk

[@sacer666]

I think what I miss most about the old CV days is having actual viable AA builds and ships, as well as CV being able to do proper AA cover since the fighters were controlled manually.

[@ilaril]

When Atlanta was deterrent not to go too close and NC with AA build was just not worth trying to. I miss those days, as soon after the rework I quit. Tried to come back once, but the subs were the final nail.

[@sacer666]

@@ilaril Yeah, subs for sure killed it for me too

[@toplili0075]

Yes these are disgusting.​@@sacer666

[@OhTheGeekness]

I preferred RTS. I liked playing the CVs and I thought AA was more useful. Some ships were no-fly zones and any ship could select which group of planes to shoot at. It was pretty cool.

[@SolyTheGreat]

back when "good AA" actually meant something instead of "very slightly less terrible damage that still lets carriers drop anyway"

[@arlingo]

Comp standoffs were super tense. Imagine enemy gearing smoking up a montana and radar mino and there was no way to get through and all you see are friendly cruisers exploding. Enemy at the gate vibes, and its why i enjoyed the game.

[@vogan7505]

Disagree with AA opinion. In rts gameplay it has two states - no-fly zone (usn cruisers and aa-focused destroyers) or haha no damage (literally everyone else) Having AA consumable can turn you from 0 to "Well, maybe i should avoid them for 40 seconds", but not so.much above that.

[@H-Shop]

​@@vogan7505I played with one of these "Everyone else" and didn't have that problem by grouping-up with other ships.

[@flashbeaster]

also the biggest nightmare for CV players was another CV........ this PvP mechanics disappeared over night as you don't need to bother with other CV in this bersion

[@AGENT47ist]

The RTS CV was exactly how a Carrier Commander operated in World War 2, they did not fly the planes they commanded them, and focused on the big picture, with micromanaging. Besides that in the old gameplay, if you were close to a Worcester or a Minotaur, the CV wouldnt dare come close with their 7.2km AA range, it would wipe out the squadron in seconds. With the RTS, you had a limited number of planes in your carrier and if they were all destroyed that's it, no more planes, compared now that planes are infinite. Also, when the deck was on fire, planes could not take off, and when squadrons returning, had about 30-40 seconds in T10, for preparation before you could launch them again. BRING RTS BACK

[@rijkemans5114]

I don't think that is how a carrier commander operated either. At Midway, the planes were directed to attack, but still a lot of initiative was asked from the squadron commanders (which is why Akagi was hit: IIRC Best took initiative to attack a different target). A carrier commander didn't tell you to get the plane a bit more north to get a better anvil attack. I do think I prefered RTS though. It was a bit intimidating for me at times (having to battle against a more experienced opponent), but satisfying when you managed to get a good game. Since the change I barely touched carriers other than operations, and gradually lost interest in the game due to changes both ingame and outside (other ways to spend my time).

[@KarthikVishwamitra]

Long range AA ships like Wooster and Mino actually had 8.4 km range and were nearly untouchable. Regular range AA ships like DM and Monty had 7.2 km range lol.

[@solidtoto]

Yeah no, sure AA builds were better but anything else just get shit on for free with even less counterplay than now. Both current and RTS were garbage. That's it, CVs are turbo shit no matter what. You cannot tell me being able to devstrike a Tirpitz is "good" for gameplay in any fucking dimension, get real.

[@snavsmatiq]

FR though I mained DM just to de-plane CVs, id have my entire flank rallying around me

[@snavsmatiq]

@@solidtoto saying there is less counterplay is straight up false. if you set the CV on fire and it cant launch any planes, and back then if you took out a plane it was gone forever. Nowadays any planes you kill 1) dont affect the squad as a whole, and 2) will quickly be replaced by the CV, and setting the CV on fire does next to nothing. Also, that tirpitz was all alone, so id rather be dev struck by all the CVs planes, rather than being picked apart and flooded to death over 3 minutes. Really getting the vibe that you didnt play pre CV rework much, or at all.

[@SmerteLunefull]

We should also remind that at the time, CV did not had a special DCP and any fire would prevent planes from landing or taking off.

[@Aerroon]

Yeah, you're right. I completely forgot about that part!

[@damiandorhoff719]

you needed a captain skill so that your planes could start and land during a fire

[@BattIeFrog]

@@damiandorhoff719 Still doubled the takeoff and landing time from 10 to 20 seconds so even with the skill it was still a detriment to the CV to be set on fire.

[@nooblangpoo]

Defensive Fire was extremely scary, AA actually ripped Squads to shreds, Planes actually mattered, Skill was the main carrying force. Hell, CV hunting was a great strategy back then. I love RTS CV.

[@QuilavaMan]

There's still a vid somewhere on YT that showcased the one ship that no CV player would EVER attack at all: A 100% AA-build Worcester. 8.4km AA range, and a DPS of over 3,000, BEFORE DFAA was applied? Yeah-screw that. The vid shows the Worcester completely deplaning 3 Hakuryus while only sustaining moderate damage at most.

[@davidty2006]

and back in the days where squadrons had a limit on total aircraft active and in reserve...

[@itsReiWoWS]

imagine if they brought WoWS Classic which was right before the CV Rework, 2019.. one can dream..

[@Aerroon]

I think it would be fun for a while, but I think the game has had a lot of quality of life improvements since then.

[@HealedSpartan]

I missed out on it smh, literally started playing like half a year after it got discontinued;/

[@datgood121]

Peak days when we had CCs coming together once a year to russia, jingles and drach doing those historic vids with WG, Submarine trailers just dropped, etc. The stories we heard back then from those CC summits were amazing. An example I remember was Yuro losing his passort and having to find a taxi all the way to another moscow(?) Just to get to the Indonesian embassy was hilarious. Also that WOWS showcase match during a WOT tournament was also interesting. The sense of community back then was amazing

[@therogueadmiral]

Indeed.

[@thomastom2294]

i woulld pay for an wows classic

[@orks_media_relations1876]

Newer players don’t have the PTSD we all got playing against really just a hand full or RTS players like Aerroon or Fem. But this video also has the most glorious sunk ship ring that I miss so much. That ring was one of the most rewarding sounds.

[@Aerroon]

Would you like the see more?

[@braunblender]

GOD NO. It's already bringing back my PTSD.🤣

[@Aerroon]

@@braunblender Lmao

[@tigercat3864]

Your newer videos are much better (though all your videos are good). The only thing I miss from those old times is friendly fire.

[@dominiksmolcic]

RTS cvs took much more skill to play after the rework it was so much easier to play them anyone could do it

[@DISkorn]

Yes RTS CV was amazing!

[@artyom-ei2mf]

This video convinced me I want RTS cvs back. Yes you could be deleted if you went alone, yes a competent cv player could just win a match if his opponent was a potato, but I think we could have changed some aspects, made some small changes to fix that, instead we got something worse for everyone and If in the past I was a bit worried of a cv, I had an idea how to counter play, aa was a thing, positioning had meaning and teammates could scare a cv, today I curse every game I get one, doesn't matter what class or tier. Not to mention RTS cv made you feel like a carrier in a warships game and not a plane game.

[@americanace96]

I didn't catch if it was mentioned or not, but RTS carrier days was also when building into an AA build was viable and certain ships had "B" or "C" hulls that improved AA with the occasional cost of a main battery turret (if you're a DD).

[@k.h.6492]

Back then you had acutall Counterplay for ships, and Carrier vs Carrier engagements. Today its totaly impossible to defend your our Teammates even if you want to. Its so stupid. I want this type of Carrier gameplay back! Thanks for the good old memorys!

[@klegdixal3529]

you're out of your mind saying that the rework was a success. the two main problems with RTS was that it had a considerable skill floor and that it was an entirely different gameplay from the other classes. they lowered the skill floor and they changed the gameplay to a TPS like the rest of the game but then it turned out that the gameplay is as exciting as watching the trees grow. so they started nerfing the counterplay to make the class more appealing to the players. we're years into the rework they still cannot get it right and now they are reworking the rework.

[@Sakyosha]

The #1 reason they reworked it was for console cross play. That's all.

[@Takarde]

According to me, the error with RTS was the straffing. They would have deleted this feature, RTS would have not been a skill gap issue. Moreover, from a reallistic point of view, that was stupid.

[@LegionOfEclaires]

A good CV player in the RTS days could make or break a team and I absolutely miss it. It was so much more interesting and fun to play than the current carriers.

[@madkoala2130]

I remember back in day really discastingly good CV players that had 90+% winrate (mainly that german player named Pidepypupy that mained OG Shokaku). I never complained against them because those guys deserved it if they were that good, only time i remember when CVs with RTS system were problem were carrier divisions and when Midway had 2 torp squads (it could with good manual drop one shot bbs)

[@hellstorme]

I think the biggest problem with the CV rework was it completely flipped the dynamic on how they impact a game. CVs used to provide some spotting and harassment early game, but as a game goes on and more and more of the 'no-fly zone' ships (like American cruisers and BBs) have their AA stripped away via HE and general damage, their impact scaled well into the mid-game and late game assuming they didn't just throw their ships into that willy-nilly. Ships have unlimited ammo so giving CVs a way to regenerate ships over time was an ok move, but giving them what they got meant that the CV can fly out, spot the entire enemy fleet for next to 0 consequences to their over-all impact, and their threat scales from mid-to-high at the early game to 'very high' in the late game. There is very little risk to the playstyle, meanwhile the surface ship is directly at risk as soon as a CV spots it even a minute or two into the game. It's as fun as the 'detonation' mechanic in that regard.

[@TheAradar]

You still have to preserve plane reserve, even though it's not as extreme as RTS days. Try playing Saipan in a tier 10 MM, if you aren't carefull you will easily be deplaned quickly (and plane regeneration in that thing is slooow).

[@vogan7505]

RTS cv was a reason why I come to game in first place. Sadly WG never actually tried to balance this system and just throw it into window.

[@vestal896]

yes gib more old carrier replays, i love watching them

[@chatbonk1583]

RTS was infinitely better if only because manual AA and Deff AA existed in their pre-change states. Nuking an entire wave of midway planes with the Des Moines never got old, and this was without anything more than AFT and the AA range increase mod. Also, carrier on carrier gameplay was incredible. They never should have taken RTS away.

[@zedburg]

This was bliss, I miss this type of Hyper-active and hyper-focused CV gameplay and I miss the fact it actually took skill to be a good CV player.

[@tommihommi1]

WG never tried to balance the RTS CVs once they started working on the new system they did the opposite, make it more powerful than ever before, even enabling killing AA ships without any chance of defense with the goal of making the rework seem better, obviously

[@Sigrid_Von_Sincluster]

yep, i think a lot of people FORGET that wg did not do ANYTHING when it came to teaching people how to play cvs and how to play against cvs, add to that the fact that they made almost no change to there balance, so ofccorse it would seam to some people that the rework was "better", the people who played them were either completly incompetent (a good part of that was because there was NOTHING in the game explaining you how to play them) or they were some unicum who, if the game went on for long enf, would wipe the floor with everyone involved, there was no middele ground when it came to them, and wg just flat out refused to do any PROPER balancing with them because they were working for a few years on the rework, and they needed the cvs to BE SHIT in order to make the rework more appealing. ofc once the novelty of the new cvs died down, people realised that w8 a minute this is WORST than it was before, it's compleatly braindead, and while before the unicum cv was shiting on you now every 42% rando can shit on you as well "grouping up made playing boring"... yeah, now we have map edge boarder camping, yeah... this is much better than people gruping up and playing the game

[@zentek777]

At the point I was starting to get super unicum stats ( with a lot of practice , trial and error,... ) and actually having fun playing CV's against other highly skilled CV's... the rework came, never touched CV's ever since. I miss the days that I was learning from the likes of papedipupi (EU)

[@thebawdybadger7435]

Papedipupi was a legend. i miss this dude.. shame that they left and never came back. the stupidity of the rework left its mark

[@thomastom2294]

me too. stopped completely never touched cvs again and i think it would have been quite easy to balance them. torp spotting was also ace

[@jannesthomaskoopmans3213]

Same here. After the rework I quit the game lol

[@thebawdybadger7435]

@@thomastom2294 the main thing is that back in the day it was counterable… like you would go to a DM and Worcester or Montana.. but just once.. now you can just print out planes, be a pain in the ass and have no impact against the other Cv. Back in the day you could use your fighters properly.. and you could save your team, your ships etc

[@Euphokumiko]

me too... I almost reach 60% win rate on my kaga... and never played since the rework. And I still want to say that (even years later), fck u saipan

[@yaseen157]

I miss RTS. I didnt mind playing the carriers, and i didnt mind being on the receiving end, even in my Shimakaze. All i had to do is cozy up to some des moines or montana and play a little differently. Now it doesnt matter what i play against a cv, its all painful.

[@pudelosha]

Suprisingy even match even though you completly dominated the enemy CV. Another funny thing is that people were not dying so quick and after 8 minutes into the battle just 1 warship was sunk. Ehhh good old times :)

[@arnemurraymeyer]

this is what got me interested in wows coming from other RTS games like paradox etc. I recall farazalleth in kots I think, when wows really had much more strat (less arcadey) skills. so many players dropped the game after the 'cv rework' . It's also how I started subbing to aerroon!

[@hanselsihotang]

Same for me but in my case it was both EU4 and AoE II/AoE3, lol. I had good fun playing Air superiority USN CVs eventhough I'm not the best at it😂. Then the rework came and it's just complete meh for me, haven't touch CVs in years since then.

[@lisaruhm6681]

Didnt the bigger drop happen after the "AA rework" aka AA now does no damage, a bit after the CV rework?

[@henryhamilton4087]

1:31 Don't forget : strafing out of a dogfight costs you one plane in the squadron. I.e one plane is sacrificed so you can break out of the furball 3:25 Strike planes that have dropped their payloads gain drastically increased speed, and they're not forced to RTB, so you can use them as scouts

[@Sakyosha]

I miss playing AA cruisers to fight off 50-100 planes a game. The carrier rework took away a lot of my love for wows

[@anthonyware4033]

I remember this CV mode, I think this is the last time I played CVs lol. Thanks for bringing up those memories

[@voltadynam7cs705]

Nice video, really enjoyed seeing old RTS gameplay. I'd like to respectfully point out a few things, though. This video doesn't showcase the reasons for the rework. The rework was "needed" because CVs were becoming a stale class and WG wanted to make it more exciting and more fun to watch and play. CVs could absolutely dominate like this battle showcases if you encountered a skilled CV player. That was a problem, arguably a big one. However, the odds of this kind of match actually happening were pretty low, since there were things to keep carriers in check. Especially compared to the rework, in which AA is laughable, fighters are very limited, aircraft regenerate over time, and planes can move at high speed around the battlefield and attack with impunity. The rework made it far easier to do this in a CV, and not only that, it dramatically made carriers more popular. So carriers going around and farming surface ships became the norm with the rework. It was not back in the RTS days. Also, as you pointed out, surface ships had a huge impact on a carrier's game as AA was a thing. Building into AA would create no-fly zones that kept carriers in check. Having AA gave ships agency to move around the battlefield. Ships that didn't have strong AA had the option to stick with a solid AA ship or group up. As the match progressed, these ships could be a little more aggressive if the carrier lost some planes, and sometimes the carrier would be deplaned or even "carrier-struck" out of existence. Having controllable fighters was a huge advantage, too. Creating no-fly zones to protect other ships or deny areas from enemy planes was another check that kept carrier squadrons from simply strolling over to something and wiping it out. You showcased this a few times in the video. Overall, you're right that the RTS system wasn't perfect. It was flawed. Being deplaned was awful, receiving a carrier strike early on in a match was incredibly frustrating, and just being able to dish out lots of damage in a concentrated alpha strike was not fair. But the RTS system had checks and balances, which are sorely lacking in the new system. Those checks and balances made the average user's experience of the carrier class overall less negative. And another big thing is that games like this earned CV mains respect, because they took skill to pull off. Anyway, just felt like I needed to address all that. I dunno, I think there's a lot that could be improved with both systems, but the rework was a step in the wrong direction in my opinion. Thanks for uploading!

[@Theo-ev6yu]

Back then, I knew just how much skill it took to play a CV adequately, let alone excellently. When an enemy CV managed to drop me, I respected the player because I knew just how much skill that took. With the current CVs, I have played them for a fair number of games. Therefore, when an enemy CV manages to kill me, I know precisely how much skill that took.

[@SplBunny84]

God I miss this.

[@afjsns]

Also worth noting, AA was very RNG in RTS. Sure the highs were extremely high, but the lows were also basically the bottom of the ocean. Being in the middle is just a mess, for instance that Monty shooting down 3 planes at once before the strike went through. It's a lot of RNG which the rework technically addressed. While I would love for RTS to come back, the only thing i am itching for is the fighter gameplay. With how oppressive it was, it was also the main driving force for a CV player to be competent. I am happy that WG reintroduced fighter supremacy with CAP fighters on the Essex line, but I would love to see more fighter stuff with the new Re-Rework, considering standard line CV fighters are forced into a defence role that they absolutely suck at compared to the CAP fighters

[@THE_Onlinegamer]

GOOOOOOOOD olds days

[@MelonDev04]

imo old RTS CVs were less of an issue as if you stuck with your team you well didn't get your shit rocked now, you get your nuts tickled even if you got some of the best AA ships around you.

[@Eisenhammer78]

Nostalgia 🤩🤩🤩🤩 I actually enjoyed it, even tho I wasnt nearly as goos as you. The biggest problems were guys like Reimu that would dominate the whole game, but the average CV player was way less deadly and effective then now imho. And the problem with getting harassed all game long until you died is still there... and that was the biggest complaint. Like you said in your example. That Musashi back then would have been farmed to death. But still today, that hasnt changed that much.

[@Panservogn]

There were improvements made during the rework, but I don´t like how much less skill matters now. Before there was alot more to consider, like higher tier CV´s having 5-7 squadrons you had to manage at the same time, if you didn´t pay attention your planes, even the returning ones. could fly straight into heavy AA or get strafed by fighters. Actually having landing and takeoff times, getting drop accuracy weakened by AA defensive, fires preventing takeoff. There was alot to consider. The option of pressing the name of teammates to put your planes in a escort mode was also really nice, attacking anything that came towards it, tho this left them heavily weekend to enemy CV´s strafes, it let u keep your fighters close to the teammates when needed.

[@Ronaldopopkings]

Really miss this old CV mode. So much more skill based. And no BS like regen planes.

[@Did_i_hit_you]

wow this brings back memorys when i loved to watch you play cv and when myself played wows (only for cv rts) would love to see more

[@Anldiot69]

I was a CV main back then. I never enjoyed the new system and can't bring myself to play them. Sure they had a lot of issues regarding skill gap, even worse plane spotting and ridiculous alpha strike. But i wish we kept the RTS system and made tweaks with that, instead of reworking everything.

[@jakubmatejka5425]

RTS CVs was best, just like old Navy Field days

[@Boatswain_Tam]

Definitely preferred the RTS CV over and above the abominations they have now. Not only was it more authentic experience for the player as a CV commander, the CV could offer support to the team and fight the enemy CV. Sure, you could say that CVs were a lot stronger before the rework, but it takes a very skilled player to single-handedly dominate a game, & they need to grind hundreds of hours to get that good. Which means even though RTS CVs were considered overpowered, you only come across unicum RTS CV players once in 20 to 30 games, so you dont feel CVs are ruining the game. But today of course...

[@AnthonyDiValentin-cv4bn]

don't forget that airstrikes from Dutch cruisers and the destroyer tromp didn't exist back then. So when you kill a cv player and take down all their planes, you didn't need to worry about he bomb airstrikes attacking you out of nowhere afterwards. Nowdays many ppl have dutch cruiser divisions that camp near islands and drop airstrikes while being undetected fir most of the battle, which takes 0 skill to do... kinda wish I played back in 2019

[@RodolfoDM]

RTS CV was the best, ofcs needed a lot of balance, probably not able to launch all the planes or add "gas" timer to each squadron but it was a blast, now is just a bad airplane drop bombs sim, as i always say, if i want to play with planes i would play Warthunder.

[@MrTiomanu]

Uff, my RTS Saipan... so broken, good times

[@jacobstrutner8232]

Hardly broken. Rts only needed minor changes and it was great for anyone in the match

[@hq21]

A rework wasn't needed to fix the problem with RTS CVs. All of the problems you showed could've easily been addressed, or really should've never been introduced in the first place. Strafing, manual drops and spotting of torps could've been removed solving almost all the issues. Mini map only spotting could've been introduced easily enough (and still should be). Also, DFAA and float fighters had meaningful effects that they don't have now. Saying that a rework was needed to address easily removable problems is rather stupid. Don't forget what a mess the whole rework was for months while they fiddled with this issue or that issue. A LOT of people left the game because they got sick of some of the stupidly broken patches and multiple CV games.

[@Brazio20]

Did WG forget they've done unique spotting mechanics for cyclone weather?

[@iron8586]

I think this rts concept would be really fun as a stand alone 1v1 rts game somehow. Or maybe if they brought rts back, implemented current hanger replacement mechanic while severely lowering alpha capacity, and implementing the current testing of spotting mechanics or a spotting only squadron (probably a single plane) somehow

[@Aerroon]

I agree. I think it could definitely be fun!

[@zam023]

And remove strafing. I think that is the primary thing that made CV planes broken.

[@therogueadmiral]

​@zam023 that was the core mechanic that made cv so fun. Having play and counterplay, using the strafing and manual drops to reward skill. If you took out strafing, the US CV would always win a fighter engagement with an IJN cv.

[@artyom-ei2mf]

​​@@zam023reduce the dmg a strafe did but increase the ammo capacity, in a way that being strafed did punish you but did not knock you out of a fight, getting strafed again and again and you deserve to loose planes. One thought and I bet there are other ways they could have tested to fix it

[@Youshinaka]

Aah, the good old times

[@andreasschierl]

I miss the good old RTS Time~

[@MecanixGame37]

you're making me remember the days were I used to be good at the game... I miss this so much, should have played more games before the 0.8.0 update.

[@Aerroon]

It was an entirely different experience. It's sad that there's no game like it now.

[@adriannn1180]

yeah i miss those days, i just loved doing anvil attacks wil my torpedoes, while sending my dive bombers as well... wish they add a mix of how it is now and the good old RTS...

[@ODSTspam3]

Remember when an aa build north carolina was essentially undroppable until halfway through the match when its aa guns were all broken by HE? Peppridge farm remembers

[@still_guns]

At least back then AA was useful and you could deplane CV's. Then ships like Atlanta would have remained relevant.

[@tremox9786]

Thanks for the old footage, looks interesting. The gameplay reminds me of Supreme Commander ... and now I`m sad that we never got a proper sequel to such an amazing RTS.

[@eBilVastard1]

if someone made this as a seperate game i would play it, completely unique and engaging gameplay that they removed for a boring mobile game

[@panjikusumo9779]

Yeah, the problem with RTS Carrier: balanced in the extreme. As long as both CV has relatively equal skill, it is much better than our average current CV game. When your CV sucks, the hell is even worse than now; CV back then can devstruck you and IJN CV has AP dive bomber that can slap your German BB so hard.

[@tpaktop2_1na]

RTS was less hassel to play compare to now. AA was real back then.

[@Lord_Zath]

Perfect timing - I was talking about how painful RTS CV really was recently on stream.

[@andreaslermen2008]

So many incompetent T8+ CV players complained about CV sniping then or getting de-planed. It was not unusual to spend some time at the start of the game with a Cleveland or an Atlanta sitting close to your CV. I think AP bombs came first with the "well balanced" Enterprise. Or the Kaga, which had only T6 planes on a T7 carrier, but you could ez cross drop any DD with your torpedo bombers then.

[@damiandorhoff719]

They experimented with ap dive bombers on the Graf Zeppelin before pulling the plug on RTS CVs

[@D4rkn3ss2000]

Nah fam. Even with this kind of domination the RTS CV gameplay was still less toxic and not as anoying as the new CV gameplay.

[@jacobstrutner8232]

Absolutely and people in here saying all rts was broken. The garbage I see a cv do now more frequently is much worse

[@zam023]

I still think that RTS is the way to go with CV but with some changes. First, remove the strafing attack from fighters. The click attack is good enough. Second, limit planes air time, which would limit the range of their strike. If surface ships have range limit on their guns why not CVs with their planes. Third, do not allow planes to stack during an attack. You can give attack orders separately on a single target, but not give a stack the same attack order. Btw, yes, planes do spot torps when they are in the air.

[@AnthonyDiValentin-cv4bn]

you can control fighters as a cruiser too?

[@SWSagume]

What I loved back then to play was the Saipan and going full air superiority mode, was absolutely fun commanding the 3 Corsair squads and trapping the enemies squads in dive attacks criss crossing them while using one as a bait.

[@woody4077]

IMHO RTS CVS were better i'm with alot of CV player community in feeling that the rework and other changes "dumbed down" cv game play and it took away many aspects of cv gameplay because having limited planes and the top perpesctive ment you had to smarter in how you played i.e. sending out your fighters torpedo planes and bombers as the same time and then having your fighters and bombers guard your torpedo planes edited yes the skill gap had to be addressed but i still don't like the way they did it

[@Whiskey11Gaming]

Thanks for bringing back the PTSD from when I used to play this game.... As for Shima... a good Shima driver knows when to use her guns to their advantage. They are ridiculously good and I made short work of a lot of ships with them. Ignoring the IJN DD guns is stupid...

[@jacobstrutner8232]

You were a terrible player then

[@ageofrocks]

Ahhh, those were the days… 😅 Don’t underestimate the old dive bombers. If I found a lone battleship, even a Yamato, I could send a single DB squadron (from a T8 Lexington) to force a DCP from the inevitable double/triple fire. Then I followed up with the other two DB and the torpedo squadron. That invariably resulted in 2+ fires and floods, which sank the ship before it could fire a single shot.

[@Aerroon]

True.

[@Mika-ph6ku]

Bro really gave that Yamato the historical accuracy treatment

[@夜貓-e3g]

After the torpedo attack, two squadrons of bombers were positioned nearby, eagerly waiting for him to repair the flood damage.😅

[@MONTY-YTNOM]

I enjoyed Cvs back then, much more tactics involved

[@hopsili]

anything with def aa had some way to play against cvs. it required skill but nowadays there is nothing you can do against good players. they just farm everything that is not a sub without having to think about who they are striking. rework not only made the class so dumb that anyone can ruin your game in a cv if they want to but also massively buffed the damage of cvs. So overall the rework was utterly horrendous. it did address some issues for cvs while creating so many more and making so many players quit for a good reason.

[@Bigbacon]

I think I'd take thiss back with the reduced damage output of the current CVs. they never seemed as toxic bad when it was RTS. only the best RTS CVs had major impacts on the rounds and most were not very good.

[@Bigbacon]

Also still so many things they should bring back to current CV like limited planes, being on fire.

[@dinomra7771]

It's good to see you again Aerroon! I haven't watched your channel since 2019

[@jordanrea2311]

wow its almost like the game was realist with regards to carriers been a force multiplier like they actually where and using those things called AA skills on the captains meant something and for the skill sealing there is a reason why not ever tom dick and harry can be a captain of a carrier

[@wembozandco.807]

I've missed old CVs since they were changed. it felt like actually being in command of the thing, and the mechanics were quite cool. after 2018, playing a CV feels like being the only competent member of the crew, who needs to do everything(which explains why you can only fly 1 group of planes at once, or drive the ship)

[@Schakalaka466]

The moment of the rework was the moment I stopped playing cv‘s. Don’t now why they had to change from strategy-style to jump‘n‘run gameplay, just because cvs where OP or the interface buggy (never really understood the real reason behind it). The reason I loved playing CV was the strategy-part…making decisions about if and in which area you leave a spotter, which DD you hunt first, giving commands to the friendly team because you have the overview etc. it was not the fact that you where able to make a lot of damage. It was not even easy to make a lot of damage: you needed to be fully concentrated and have a little bit of luck with your opposing CV. And: even a lot of damage was pointless if the opposing CV did more. I was tired after 2 good games as a CV and needed a mental break (by playing BB). And: back then I had fun to play AA-ships. With my fully skilled DesMoines (theoretical AA value of 130 or something) I loved establishing no-fly-zones, protecting vulnerable BBs and deplane enemy carriers. Completely useless today.

[@AnthonyDiValentin-cv4bn]

don't forget about dutch cruiser divisions and smoke divisions which make the game even less enjoyable

[@edhikurniawan]

I want to say, the RTS play really rewards skillful play. Like even if i were destroyed by a skillful drop, at least i could appreciate the skill. Not saying it is flawless, as it also has higher skill bar. Against it can be frustrating.

[@Aerroon]

Maybe initially, but eventually idk. I personally didn't mind it that much, because if you reacted properly to drops then you could very often avoid most of the damage, but other players disagreed.

[@edhikurniawan]

@@Aerroon It is not what happened if you're against a very good CV player in Asia. Not saying you're less than them. But, their skill almost like cheating. I mostly playing DDs, and i would say, against them there's almost zero chance to dodge. As if they know where i would turn. And honestly, with a skill I don't find it is impossible to do. Their dive bombers also impeccably accurate, even tho I'm actively dodging. Even when I'm using a DD with a relatively small turning circle like Hatsuharu. AA build Hatsuharu. Yes I open the AA when I'm detected by aircraft. Against a standard CV player tho, I could dodge a crossdrop. I think i have one video with Z-32.

[@bldude2]

Honestly, RTS CVs with the nerfs/modifications as suggested by community back then instead of WG unilaterally tossing everything and making the current system would've been preferred. But RTS CVs DID need a rework...just probably not the way WG decided to rework lol.

[@davidty2006]

Now it's 1 squadron at a time with auto everything for the carrier it's self because theres no time to actually manage it...

[@KirstyCaddick-ne4vk]

Yes, the RTS style of gameplay was a far better option when it came to carriers, because it allowed for more strategic style of gameplay that's missing from the game now. Yes, I know it wasn't perfect and cross drops, for example, were a problem, but I much preferred the game back then to what exists now. What's more and from what I can personally remember, the playerbase also reflected this compared to watch I see on you tube now.

[@jrocker152]

Your point at the end is quite valid. I still liked it a lot but I see the problem with that huge swing on a part of the game surface ships can't even realistically impact.

[@bimoaditya7548]

wish they bring back rts cv for real, i miss the old days cv....you can devstrike all ship including battleship from 100% hp to 0% in just 1 strike and pump high damage with cross drop. Enemy ship have DEFAA bait it and run then attack them when their defaa on cooldown give them your middle finger, you can play without fighter and change that fighter to dive bomber or torpedo bomber. Planes can spot torpedo. In old days rts cv if i can get 200k damage or above and up to 5 kill is already win for me or destroy all enemy cv and bb. But today cv you can't get devstrike except enemy ship get detonated.

[@Not_Laci]

I played since beta both with and against carriers (i have thousands of hours in this game), the current cvs are insanely more powerful than the old ones. Currently a good cv player can easily achieve 300k+ damage and around 150k spotting. Back then it was way lower and you had to work your ass off multi managing to have a good game. Sure you may have gotten devstruck once or twice, but now they slowly torture you with 0 counterplay. Back then all you had to do is group up with a high AA ship or ask the friendly carrier for some fighters (which by the way, fighters actually did something). And for me personally, rts was way more fun. (Don't hate me for my opinion, this is just a game in the end and we all have different takes on these matters)😊

[@AnthonyDiValentin-cv4bn]

I personally agree, also divisions with Dutch cruisers didn't exist back then. Now a division of 2 or 3 dutch cruisers undetected/camping behind an island release 3 groups of airstrikes eatch is no fun to play against(which is like 72 to 108 planes attacking your ship which is enough to kill a t10 bb that is near full health). This is another reason why players hate the system we have now.

[@jacobstrutner8232]

Absolutely the new cv crank out 300k damage so easy it's a joke.

[@bamukero4978]

Ah, yes when T7 New Orleans has to face off against T10 Midway aircraft. The good old days....

[@Aerroon]

New Orleans was T8 back then, Baltimore was T9.

[@damiandorhoff719]

that Game was before the us cruiser rework. Cleveland was Tier 6, Pensacola was Tier 7, New Orleans was Tier 8 and had Radar, Baltimore was Tier 9 followed by the Des Moines

[@bamukero4978]

@&¥&%! Well, that’s my old memory that can’t even remember the tiers right. Thanks for the correction guys.

[@reynardtv1]

Sorry I played RTS cv's back in the day, and yes, these types of games existed. But you couldn't do these 10 games in a row unless you were amazing, you also had to play well to accomplish this. Now you take out a cv and you are guaranteed to get a 100-120k game also the amount that cv's contribute to blow outs today is much larger. Look at your average per game before CV rework and after and you will probably find that it has gone up instead of down even with less damaging torpedoes. RTS was not perfect, but it was a lot better than what we have now.

[@Aerroon]

The problem was that a good CV player would basically make the other CV player unable to play the game

[@reynardtv1]

@@Aerroon Yes, but at least you won because there was a great CV player and not just a cv player. Also losing your CV wasn't an automatic loss. Current CV's are so of balance that I stopped playing the class completely because it makes me look like a better player than what I am.

[@C4l4b82]

Hey, you were one of my favorite Enemys. Greetings from Calab, Buddy from Papedipupi. We had great battles. ❤

[@Aerroon]

Oh hey! Funny. I was looking at a replay from the beta where the chat was about him. Haha.

[@C4l4b82]

@@Aerroon I was the hated Cruiser Player with full AA. :D Calab in Europe, Cruiser_Calab in NA. I hope the good old RTS CV Gameplay come back :)

[@Colyo62]

this video made me want it back even more

[@SteelxWolf]

changes to AA mechanics with the new flak style, plane replenishment mechanics plus RTS would be far better. the RTS system was never shown the attention the new style has. Was never given a chance. obviously things like torp spotting for planes should be removed, or the squadrons clipping inside eachother. like I said, RTS never saw the attention and tweaks it needed

[@Kaizoushin]

Man, the good ole days of running an AA Cleveland and daring a CV to try and do something. I also remember my 100 AA North Carolina and just watching planes get dropped because some CV thought I was a pushover.

[@bLock_c1pher_Gaming]

Hello Aerroon!, I'm glad you explained the method and intention and light foreground on how it worked and what changed. Awesome video, You delivered, thank you. take care.

[@jussitoivanen2667]

Oh boy I miss this. Skill ceiling was incredibly high compared to other classes and as we could see here input between competent CV player and incompetent CV player was huge but like said. It was not everymans shipclass back then. Some great gaming memories with these...

[@angusdad8154]

I wasn't around for RTS cvs... I'm glad If you have the time sure, more please.

[@kusajko3644]

Holy, this video is a throwback and a half. I used to play daily and watch every single one of your videos. I'm not exaggerating when I say that you literally taught me how to play CVs. After the CV rework i quit the game and subsequently stopped watching you, I simply moved on. This is nostalgic as hell, watching you comment on an RTS game. Man.

[@DewaKrishna_]

As a very avid RTS and CV player, i really hated it when they straight up decided to remove RTS carriers for the much more simplified system we have now. It was honestly a lot more fun and definitely a lot more strategic, and honestly just needed some tweaks and changes to be a lot more balanced, instead of the system removed outright

[@williamwiese9963]

Great video, I had fun back in the day when they brought the Graf Zeppelin into the game, but personally I like the newer style of game play.

[@Aerroon]

Fair enough!

[@rothgartheviking858]

light cruisers and some heavy cruisers should be no fly zones. Give them their role back.

[@bluemyst42]

I at least wish they would let current CVs deploy the fighters on the map without having to fly my current squadron to the spot I want the fighters to patrol. I can live with everything else about modern CV play, but fighter patrols feel useless.

[@Aerroon]

Yeah, I wish we could do that too. That way you could actually help your team with fighters without taking a massive opportunity cost to fly out there. It takes almost the entire duration of a fighter squadron to fly to your ship and then back to a decent angle again.

[@shoukatsukai]

The craziest thing about this match was remembering New Orleans was a T8 and Baltimore was a T9.

[@Aerroon]

And Pepsicola was T7 with horrible concealment

[@clefsan]

Thanks for this look into the past and the excellent commentary. I started getting into this game shortly before the rework. I disliked the RTS style CVs, because when I play WoWS, I want to feel like I'm right in the action and RTS style wasn't giving me that (and if I want to play an RTS game, I'll pick something where everything is RTS). So I prefer the reworked CVs over the old style in that regard. What I dislke about the rework is that so many functions you need to manage as a player on all other classes are automated on CVs. Taking agency away from the player was a bad and unnecessary move, imho. Where WG has struggled - and largely failed so far - is properly balancing the AA of surface ships against their desire to not "mess up" the gameplay experience of the CV player. However, when I play a CV, I really shouldn't be able to strike a ship that is described by WG as having great AA (or evenas being an AA cruiser) at will and without severe consequences for my plane reserves. And one other thing WG should have changed early on is to limit plane spotting to the minimap, both for the sake of balance and realism. Lastly, I don't expect much from the CV re-rework that will be coming soon. But maybe that means a higher chance of being positively surprised in the end (though I remain skeptical). 😇

[@Ranma1981]

I remember being deletes in an Iowa from an alpha strike before any enemy ship was even spotted by CV's within a minute of the game starting as i was cross dropped and had 0 chance to even play

[@charleslynch340]

Ah yes, back when patrol fighters actually did something, and there was some fact or AA effectiveness, and bad decisions were punished while good ones were rewarded. Yes, I know it was far from perfect, but I think I still prefer this to the current iteration.

[@AnthonyDiValentin-cv4bn]

Yeah and smoke divisions with bbs getting free dmg kills didn't exist back then

[@swanbaa]

This is pretty interesting! There isn't much footage of RTS careers with the context of current carrier gameplay

[@CMDRSweeper]

I loved the RTS part of carriers back then, and when I unlocked it, it was another fun gamemode. However, this was shortly before the rework and afterwards, I traded in most of my carriers that I had unlocked for their dubloon offer. Probably the best trade I ever did as the new rework was awful to play and wasn't as much fun. The loss of the carrier in T7 was also detrimental for the T7 Narai operation that I also enjoyed a lot.

[@captain_loeffel]

The biggest problem of the old RTS system was the enormous skill gap between the players. I often saw battle from you @Aerroon of your friend iChase. Sometimes you both battling. It was fun to watch such skilled CV players, but that was the major problem. Often a game for a CV ended only 4 minutes into the game after one CV striked the other with all attack planes sinking the CV instantly. You video showed this skill gap in a perfect manner. The other CV had no chance as you were blocking him while actively engaging. The RTS mode needs a lot more attention and is far more taking then the new CV mode. The CV player constantly needed to check the map his various squadrons, while sending them in for an attack. Those problems WG stated like cross torping was just an excuse with the new system you could still cross drop and with the newest iteration it will get even easier. They wanted to close the skill gap between the CV players and that worked perfectly. Unfortunately they killed the AA on the way and now surface ships are more or less helpless against a CV. The new rework doesn't really address this in my opinion it makes some things even worse. The AA consumable should ALWAYS blind the planes and not only when I activate it before they enter my AA range. You normally doesn't have time to constantly check were the planes are to activate it in the right moment. Doesn't the planes attack or fly low it is wasted, do you activate it too late it is wasted. Was deplaning really wrong? I say no. When a CV player can't use the available resources in a good manner he should be punished for it. Every other player is punished for it. Using some consumables too early you waste them and don't use their full potential. When you use them too late, they are wasted too as you can't use them anymore as the time for them will run out because of their cooldown time. Back to RTS? I say no, mainly because of the gigantic skill gap. Were the RTS CV worse back then? No. because of the amount of things a CV player needed to handle 99% of all players couldn't really handle CVs and the so strong CV wasn't stronger than any other ship maybe even weaker because of it. Are CVs OP at the moment? Yes they are because they are designed that even a totally unskilled player will have average results and that is just too much. Will the new change will change this? No it won't and with the changes of AA and so on I think the CVs will be even stronger afterwards. I know your opinion about it, but you videos also proof that the CVs will get stronger with the next rework. More of those videos? Why not, it is fun to watch and I also like to watch other older videos from other classes. It is interesting too see what has changed. Not only the view, design or the mechanics, also the changes of game play. But I fear the game play changed not into the right direction. When it comes to luck! Look at Aetam Project Wrecked: Episode 57 the Benson at the beginning and no I have no f....g idea how I managed to dodge this cross drop so "easily".

[@michaelvelez6699]

The only Wargaming would do against the RTS CV was making the fighters regen since like you sayed the CV's Gameplays if there are a huge mass of destruction against the fighters they will be vulnerable and will not participate anymore, only wait to be sunk. RTS in my point of View was awful in the way in their gameplay, we can control the squads and if they are destroyed and even, you dont have any repleacement game over, and literally the CV will be defenseless and worst of that out of planes and secundaries are mediocre so... Nope, you are freaking dead

[@jonasnee]

I am confused, i dont think Ichase was ever considered a good CV player. "Back to RTS? I say no, mainly because of the gigantic skill gap." this was a solveable problem, strafe didn't need to be in the game and really that above all else was the major difference between CV players

[@reinhardofavercland7448]

If the deplaning wasn't wrong, the skill gap would have been a lot milder than it was. By having a guarantee to completely shut down the enemy counterpart, RTS CVs were easily the most one-sided ships that existed in the game. Imagine BBs had actually limited ammo, the skip gap would be as huge as RTS CVs were. Sure you can still destroy BB's turrets, but the chance for it to happen is extremely low that you can hardly consider it as a proof that BBs have limited ammo.

[@captain_loeffel]

@@reinhardofavercland7448 The skill gap wasn't by using the fighters or not properly. Most CV players weren't able to handle all those different squadrons properly. They were just overburden with all that they had to look at. Not only controlling their squadrons to attack also to keep track if their squadrons might be flying into the AA of a ship. Many players lost their planes manly from ship AA not by the strafing fighters. A BB with limited ammunition wouldn't change anything in the game. How much rounds are fired normally by a battleship with its main batteries in one battle? If it fired many rounds I'm sure we are even when we say 200-300 rounds. Now we exaggerate and say ok, they fire 400-600 rounds. Do you know how many shells a battleship carried for all main batteries? For sure not! That would be around 1000 shells for all turrets. So even if we would say half of it would be AP and half of it HE (or SAP if they have no AP or HE rounds) we can say for sure it would be extremely rare if a battleship would manage to even manage to expend all of its rounds of one shell type. Limited ammunition would be a things for cruisers, destroyers and subs. Especially when it comes to the torpedo launchers as most weren't able to refit them at all and not under fighting conditions for sure.

[@Mika-ph6ku]

I was a carrier main for ages back when rts carriers were still a thing and I had no clue that strafing was a thing...

[@seductive_fishstick8961]

I cant lie, this looks super fun to play.

[@VaImorian]

I wish I played more carrier back in the day, I really miss the way old carriers worked. I also miss my AA cruiser builds where I stuck next to ships with less capable AA to give them cover