History of Slavery in North Africa | M'hamed Oualdi

M'hamed Oualdi - professor of history at Paris' Sciences Po University - joins us on the afikra podcast to delve into the often obscured and forgotten history of slavery in North Africa. Starting with his book "A Slave Between Empires: A Transimperial History of North Africa", he talks about why there's a pointed absence of awareness around the Arab world's own history of slavery, and details the history of slavery in Mamluk Tunisia and Egypt, the role of nationalism in erasing this period, and the position of anti-black racism in fueling the North African trade.
0:00 Introduction
1:00 History of Slavery in the Arab World
5:44 Defining Slavery Over Time
10:57 Mamluks in Tunis
19:00 Reasons for Absence of Awareness on Slavery
24:23 When Did Anti-Black Racism Become Part of Slavery?
30:40 A Slave Between Empires
37:42 Decolonizing North African History & the Ottomans as Colonizers
43:15 Overlapping Empires
48:20 Has Slavery Ended in Tunisia?
52:36 Slavery and North African History
57:00 Recommendations
M’hamed Oualdi is full professor of history at Sciences Po-Paris. He is a historian of Early Modern and Modern North Africa trained in Arabic at Inalco-Paris and in history at the Sorbonne University (Paris 1-Panthéon Sorbonne) from which he obtained his PhD in 2008. Prior to joining the faculty at Sciences Po, he was associate professor at Princeton University (2013-2019) and maître de conferences at Inalco-Paris (2010-2013). His research has centered on two main topics: slavery and its social impacts on Ottoman Tunisia and the many effects of transitioning from the Ottoman rule to a French colonial domination in North African societies.
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[@EyesFoward]

The answer is simple. There is no grey areas. It's either yes or no. The answer is: Because you are not of the ancient genetics found there and the origin of your genetics can be found else where then no you are not indiginous to North Africa, Not a difficult question at all. The answer is as easy for as for the African.

[@ryanziller220]

The 'Americas' are also included in regards to that assertion. Ecologically, the native habitat for creatures adheres to the principle that you mentioned. In laymen's speech, Polar bears will not be found in the jungles of the Congo while Zebras will not be found on the icy glaciers of Antarctica through any such instance for there having to be a naturalization of those occurrences. With imperialism being a pulsating act that happens in waves of colonization, Westernization is a festering invasion.

[@MrSolonolo]

Thank you. For me, it seems the real conversation on this topic begins a around 24:00 . Here was an opportunity to address the unspoken issues which exist prominently in global society. Namely, anti Black sentiments and subjugation of Black people in many Arab and Muslim countries- to include, not least of all, the UE.

[@asmarshadeed]

Slavery was not anti-Black....why do you jump to this label? The Blacks were also involved in the trading people both black and white

[@fromabove422]

​@@asmarshadeed The only time blacks traded in white slaves was under Islam. Plus chattel slavery was unheard of below the Sahara until the euro Asian coalition

[@allanluis3696]

@@asmarshadeed chattel slavery absolutely is anti-black. To deny this is outrageous. And most of the "blacks" that participated in Trans-Sahara slavery were Blacks with mixed Arab ancestry that saw themselves different from the indigenous black population.

[@lesliejackson9929]

@@asmarshadeed Slavery of black Africans is still happening today.

[@Buurba_Jolof]

​@@allanluis3696 Completely false !

[@masehoart7569]

I sincerely appreciate this form of multifaceted and calm dialogue and analysis. I hope for a pan African historian conference. I totally agree with the point made that the "Barbary slave trade" or rather the Mediterrenean slave trade is overwhelmingly represented from the European (Christian) victim side - the evidence of the European enslavers such as the Order of the Maltese for instance, is conviniently omitted.Thank you very much

[@afikra]

We're happy you found the episode insightful!

[@masehoart7569]

@@afikraAbsolutely, like I said, we need more of such dialogues. We need to stop looking at our cultures, our solidarity & our conflicts through the white aka Western filter.

[@thomasthomasphilp4393]

Slavery still exists in Saudi Arabia with Kafala system

[@thetruth8295]

It's not khilafa it's a US colony like all Muslim regions , And you think your country is not enslaving their ppl ? From The bank system alone it's obvious all of the ppl are slaves . When you go to a company just to have a job , how much you prepare to lie about how great they are 😂

[@shafsteryellow]

It still exist in Nigeria and congo

[@masehoart7569]

Saudi Arabia is not North Africa. Again, conflating, ethnicities, regions with religions - the typical Eurocentric imperialistic agenda

[@Njoofene]

You should also have brought in John Alembillah Azumah, author of the masterpiece "The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa: A Quest for Inter-religious Dialogue". That book written years ago contains great info about Arab Islam slavery.

[@sonabarnes6670]

Great job, alhamdulillah. 👍Allah bless you. Keep going.

[@laminesadoun]

Im so glad to have found this podcast. I hadn't heard of M'hamed Oualdi before this but his recommendations at the end were very nice. I wonder how much overlap there is between his work and the recent work of Dr. Jonathan AC Brown of Georgetown on slavery in Islam in general. im excited to read m'hamed's work so i can dive deeper into this topic [im just an interested lay person]

[@afikra]

We're glad you found the episode useful!

[@alexomar7464]

Much appreciated, what a wonderful conversation. Thank you.

[@afikra]

We're happy you enjoyed it!

[@pauladdae3130]

Interesting. It would be good to invite Dr Chouki El Hamel. His research is very extensive in regards to slavery, black people and Morocco.

[@AbdulSattar-mp9de]

The Mumluk also fought against the Fatimid

[@ashrafalam6075]

Respected, From Pakistan, In my opinion physical Slavery is declining in real terms. Now it has multiple ways in today's life. Would appreciate if your valuable reply 1) Mental Slavery 2) In which category you recognise Footballers transfer from clubs to clubs ( Not a Glorify way of Slavery) 3) Development of Brands or Brands consciousness isn't a way of Slavery. 4) Officially declared brothel in Europe and everywhere isn't a form of Slavery + unofficial prostitution.

[@blackstarenigmatic1112]

It is interesting that the main point of the podcast went over the heads of people that embrace the generic abuses of the English term "slavery". It's uses are so imprecise it is pointless. Part of the problem is of course colonial and colonial languages that foster false equivalents between historically specific events.

[@christellepene]

I have to disagree with the professor because. Africa has been colonised by the Ottoman empire as they have imposed their language ( Arabic )and their culture. Plus, they colonised indigenous people of that region. So they are no different from the white coloniser

[@khubza8999]

The Ottomans spoke Turkish and not Arabic. You have to distinguish between Islamization -Arabization and outright colonization.

[@abusuf]

Arabic was not the primary language of the Ottoman sultans. To the contrary, all existing languages within the Ottoman domains were preserved and institutionalized locally. There no Turkish speakers in Ottoman lands outside of Turkey. This is the main point... proof that the Ottomans did NOT impose their culture because the Ottoman empire was a Caliphate, not an ethno-based system.

[@AbdulSattar-mp9de]

It were the Mumluk who defeated or rather defended parts of Syria against Mongol in 13 or 14th century. The Ottoman rose to power later

[@AbdulSattar-mp9de]

Why Caucasus? He didn't answer ir properly. Does it mean Caucasus was conquered during the ottoman. I think it was conquered much earlier

[@charlenegraham1923]

What is the word he's using, "hosilization," to describe something Muslims did to Africans south of the Sahara? Am I just not hearing the word correctly? What is the correct word? Also, slavery was banned in Europe and the speaker extended that ban to North Africa. Why? Was North Africa considered Europe? Confusing.

[@AbdulSattar-mp9de]

Mumluk also existed during the time of the Abbasid. They were guards and soldiers. The Turks abducted kids from Christian lands who would go on to become Janisari

[@rabiuhassan8403]

So, essentially and effectively, Egypt is not Africa?! Right?! That’s essentially what you are saying here. Secondly, and much more fundamental, is that, to me at least, this “story “ appears to be the Arab-North African version of the’feel good’ historiography of the Arab slave trade which preceded the trans-Atlantic slave trade by over six centuries at the very least. Basically, a white-washing of the gross historical crimes and utter gangsterism that the Arab world perpetrated against Africa and the African people. And, of the fact that this ignoble and unforgivably egregious historical crimes against Africans is, to date, still on-going, alive and well. Even to admit that the Arab in Africa is, originally and historically, an invader and colonist, is so reluctant and reductive barely mentioned in passing as, was it “the locals?! An altogether a rather intellectually dishonest rendition of the true story of the Arab enslavement of the Africans and, an attempt to make the Ottomans appear as the progenitors of the Arab-Muslim slave trade. I refer you to UNESCO document 2 which reports the documented evidence and history of the Arab slave trade, particularly the East Africa Arm of this inglorious period in history, and the depredations, pestilence and destructive havoc its impact has had and is still having on the continent. The physical and material evidence for this can still be seen today in the profusion of the Jacaranda Trees in major East African cities like Dar el salaam! Each tree was planted atop the buried remains of the Africans murdered by the Arabs for imagined crimes such as “looking at the face of an Arab woman “. Talk about similarity and affinity with the American slave trade!! Irony?! It must be said though, that the mere acknowledgement of this history and this open discussion about the subject is worthy and necessary. Something to be encouraged

[@rxa-z1124]

I find that most North Africans (Arabs) identify with the Middle East more than the mother continent.

[@nounnoun]

@@rxa-z1124 Because Arabs are not indigenous to North Africa; they come from the Middle East. Many among them are deeply racist to Africans. Remember when the president of Tunisia declared that there were "too many Africans in his country"? The irony!

[@ryanziller220]

They see nothing in us and our societies throughout whichever community where they practice Jihadism; hence, the term abīd as it comes close in meaning with that of an abyss. They still drop off sugarcoated versions of the Quaran throughout relocated native African settlements, wait until it's time to exact the measures of takfiri before excommunicating those who can obviously not be true Muslims for fact that we have darker skin and, lastly, enslaving most of the villagers to bring them into various forms of forces servitude including Kafala.

[@ryanziller220]

​@@nounnounIn truth, they migrated from the Caucasus regions to modern day Jordan and the Arabian peninsula before the establishment of the Byzantine or the Ottoman Empire.

[@abdullahkarim4678]

It’s over Whitesupremists

[@abusuf]

If Ottomans were colonizers then you would have to apply the same rationale to the Rashidun Caliphate. Islamic caliphates cannot be compared to western colonialism which occupied lands for the sheer purpose of exporting wealth to Europe and marginalizing the locals. With that said, we know that slavery was rampant during this time across the globe and cannot be justified. Much of slavery in the Ottoman empire was of white eastern Europeans.

[@AbdulSattar-mp9de]

I think Mongol captured Russia and parts of Caucasus. Later many Mongols converted to Islam and some people in Caucasus might have converted as well

[@ultrasignificantfootnote3378]

Would it be important to mention how prophet Mohammed the best example for all Muslims ,dealt with slavery ? did he actually have slaves or was he involved with slavetrade himself ?

[@jj-yi1ne]

the best example for all of humanity is a christian concept. islam doesnt tell you to imitate another man

[@ultrasignificantfootnote3378]

@@jj-yi1ne This is not answering my question at all.

[@andrewjohnson8232]

So now Mo' isn't an example? Surah 33:21 These clowns change masks whenever they're exposed. Hadiths become inauthentic, Surahs abrogated, and scriptures corrupted, all that their convenience. Not only was the man himself a slaver, slavery exists even his vision of paradise.

[@truthseeker6541]

Listening to this talking head conversation left me feeling a little resentful. North Africa and the Arab world are in a terrible state of subjugation and turmoil by the US/West, with Israel their out of control pitbull causing havoc in the region. And yet I sense a smugness being displayed listening to this conversation. I get the impression that North African slavery is being compared to the much admired US model. The difference, US ended slavery I wish we could say the same for the Arab world. For sharp contrast, what's taking place in Palestine? Am I the only witness to the many people standing up and demonstrating for Palestinians around the world? Including Africans. Arab demonstration anyone? Anyone! Even Fearless South Africa, the first nation to make a stand for the Palestinian people. The world is still waiting for a comment by any Arab government spokesperson. The deafening noise continues as we wait for the long fast of silence to be broken. Yet this conversation, is glorifying Arab slavery. Mamluk's! Mamluk's! Mamluk's! Is all I'm hearing elevated to god like status. Lol! Maybe they should be brought back to life like the Oathbreakers in Tolkien's. Shame they destroyed the fighting Moorish civilization. The irony for me listening to this bore is that slavery still exist in the Arab world and the subjects are mostly African people. The people's who's land was stolen along with the appropriation of their identity and culture. The prophet of Islam who sought refuge in Africa was treated with great dignity and respect. As a result he went on to create the religion in whose hand millions of Africans lost their lives and still suffer indignity today by the hands of Arabs. It's certainly one book I won't be recommending to anyone.

[@AdamAzzr]

Praising the moors and then talking sh/t about islam, very smart internet expert

[@allanluis3696]

@@AdamAzzr "moors" is a catch-all phrase used on the Iberian peninsula for Africans and Arabs that ruled during the 700 year Muslim conquest. Many of those people were not actually muslim. Some converted, some pretended to convert if you read the history.

[@AdamAzzr]

@@allanluis3696 that’s what happens to you when you learn history from Facebook, the moors were indeed arabs and North africans, and guess what? They ruled with the charia laws, the culture was Muslim, the architecture was islamic, the clothes were based on islamic rules which means being covered and modest , the music praised Allah and Mohamed and so on. Talking about a minority who blended into the new Society doesn’t mean Anything, it’s like if Told you that the abbasid caliphate was not muslim because there were also christians living there.

[@andrewjohnson8232]

​​@@allanluis3696 All correct. And the term Moor or Maurus is older than medieval Iberia, going back to the Romans.

[@andrewjohnson8232]

​@@AdamAzzr This has nothing to do with what was posted. The post was defining what was being referred to by the medieval term "Moor". There is no such thing as "Islamic architecture". The architecture was Sahelian and Byzatine. Islam is very good at erasing cultures and histories and appropriating them as Arab and Islamic. There is very little called Islamic which did not in fact come from pre-Islamic societies, including east, west and northern Aftica, the Nile Valley, Levant and Yemen, Persia, India, and Greco-Roman classicism.

[@abdullahkarim4678]

You are guilty Now chicken come to Roost

[@choicesii1]

People become anti-black because they're ignorant and listening to other ignorant people. North Africans are mostly just mixed Africans. The ones that live on the coasts are more mixed, and the further inland you go, the less mixed they are. That simple. Same for Semitic people. Soqotri have been isolated until more recently on an island off the coasts of Yemen, and have African genomes and speak a Semitic language. They're also brown and dark brown people who look like more akin to East Africans. Further inland in North Africa, people are dark brown and those people are related to the lighter people on the coasts.

[@AdamAzzr]

False, those who lives in the mountains are Whiter than those who lives on the coast.

[@18breaths66]

At the start you state this information is suppressed because it supports anti Black racism. I would argue it’s suppressed because it reveals much of the “Caucasian “ element of North Africa is not native or Arab. You don’t see the Ottomans as colonizers because the elites of those lands are by in large Turk. If the Ottomans are not colonizers then neither were the Byzantines and Latins before them for reasons you gave.

[@AdamAzzr]

Next topic Should be about subsaharan African tribes enslaving each other and selling them to the portuguese

[@sherifkarmo2382]

The Arab Muslim slave trade was a holocaust that lead to the Portuguese slave trade. The Portuguese didn't do castration

[@AdamAzzr]

@@sherifkarmo2382 yes the portuguese gave them caviar and wine. Still waiting for a podcast about subsaharans enslaving each other and selling each other to the portuguese merchants.

[@AdamAzzr]

@@sherifkarmo2382yeah the portuguese gave them caviar and wine. Still waiting for podcast about the subsaran tribes ensl/ving other tribes and selling them to the portuguese merchants.

[@thetruth8295]

على الاساس انو المجازر توقفت في هذا الوقت ، الرجل الابيض مسيطر بلكامل على هذا الشريف ههخخ ​@@sherifkarmo2382

[@diezl7781]

​@@AdamAzzrthe fact that mahgrebians talk immediatly about european slaving part when the subject is about arabs still make me laugh

[@alexomar7464]

Check Professor Gerald Horne

[@komiczar]

Thx. Please Which broadcast???

[@alexomar7464]

@@komiczaralso check John H. Clarke. May he rest in power.

[@komiczar]

@@alexomar7464 Thx again.

[@spirithawk2418]

Basil Davidson....... very prolific researcher and he had great love for Africa. / Dr. Diop of Senegal / Mbenga and so many others

[@idelrich123]

Also Marcus Garvey Jr.