Physical Is NOT Preservation

People claim that physical game releases help to preserve games for future generations, but - while there are benefits to buying physical games - preservation isn't one of them.
Join me in a discussion about day one patches, DLC, online check-ins, live service games, media rot and failing hardware, as well as the fan made solutions to gaming's preservation problems.
00:00 - Introduction
02:08 - The Problem
06:51 - Why Physical Games Are NOT Preservation
12:45 - The Actual Solution
#gamingHistory #gamesPreservation #saveTheGames

[@n64fan60]

Video game piracy = preservation. Sad, but true.

[@macuser7048]

Not sad at all.

[@Sydney_Angelyt]

@@macuser7048sad it's necessary

[@lizardguyNA]

No disc or cartdridge = desecration. Let me use my thing without an app!!

[@christianbethel]

PIRACY/EMULATION/OFFLINE PLAY IS YOUR GOD.

[@macuser7048]

@@GladeSwope Never had Betamax. My dad had a laserdisc player.

[@Okaleshock]

Emulation + multiple physical archives seems like the best way to preserve video games in the current times

[@houragents5490]

🧢

[@InternalxHD]

@@houragents5490 how is that cap ? Also pirating preserves

[@Twister-V1]

​@@InternalxHDemulation is technically piracy 99% of the time. Theres a big legal grey area on emulating games you own without you dumping that game onto the pc, so you even emulation a game you own but getting the bios online is technically piracy.

[@InternalxHD]

@@Twister-V1 I would say it's. More 50/50, a lot of people still prefer dumping and using their own bios idk why when it's much easier to download roms and bios off the internet which is what I do But "officially" emulation devs didn't make them for piracy but they also could just be saying that to avoid getting sued, who knows In my country piracy is legal also btw

[@carnybusiness7432]

In an ideal society, I would say public libraries/museums, and local trade for physical games, and official emulation for digital games.

[@lssjvegeta7103]

removal of games or content from games is EXACTLY why piracy will NEVER die

[@noahknight4039]

Piracy will never die because people want stuff for free. Stop acting like there’s some noble cause behind it. People like free stuff, period.

[@Robotta]

​@@noahknight4039Both reasons can coexist. No reason to be cynical about it.

[@DogeCoinInvestor]

@@noahknight4039well yes, but when you give people a noble reason to steal you best believe they’re gonna do a lot more stealing.

[@Sonario648]

@@DogeCoinInvestor Only if those people were planning on stealing in the first place. And that's only ONE group of pirates. There are various reasons for piracy. Piracy is often a service problem, especially in the case of Nintendo, when Nintendo fans would HAPPILY pay to play legacy games again if Nintendo wasn't so anti-consumer.

[@imonke5303]

@@noahknight4039 I've owned every game I've downloaded so shove it

[@jadenkudo3008]

This problem was in a South Park episode, where Cartman frozen himself, because he don't want to wait 3 weeks for Wii, but wake up 1000 years later. In that time when Cartman finally found a Wii in a museum, there was no tv to connect it to.

[@bencarlson4300]

Sounds like that one Twilight Zone episode

[@KingGameZ43]

Welp. This is why emulation and Rom Sites Matter.

[@keeganmcfarland7507]

True. It's up to the indie game developers and AA game studios to save physical media of video games once and for all because indie games developers and AA game studios cares about you and listen to you.

[@christianbethel]

And piracy/abandonware.

[@keeganmcfarland7507]

@ChristianBethelCAWB Also, does the video game industry needs to crash? Also, if the video game industry decides to crash, the video game industry will be restarted back to 6th and 7th generation of gaming forever.

[@KesorodaBlk]

BRB, gonna download clean roms and patch fixes for all my old 16-bit games.

[@familyandfriends3519]

@@keeganmcfarland7507 Can anyone explain what this you own the license on disc not a actual copy thing

[@wrathoftheflyingspaghettim850]

I think the even bigger issue with this conversation IS the fact that licensing can even do this. If you agree to put something in a game then that should be it its just in the game now. Its absolutely ridiciculous that you can just pull games from stores like that cause you lost a license. The way licensing itself works needs an overhaul.

[@Werewolfwrath]

I agree. It's very stupid that games can be permanently pulled just because a license expires. Even if the licenses being expired means that the devs can't make money from them anymore (which as a sidenote, limiting the time someone can make money off of something they made I feel is kind of shitty), they could at least make the games free so that they're still available. Then, if in the future, someone picks up the license, it can be sold for regular price again.

[@gokux75]

Imagine if you had to send back your physical copies of Vice City or Deadpool because the license expired and you got no refund what so ever.

[@xxxaragon]

Yes. And in a similar fashion, it's ridiculous that this can happen to tv shows and, if I'm not mistaken, even movies as well. (Most of us who are a bit older have probably encountered one of our favorite tv shows from the past being put on streaming (or, earlier, on dvd) with a significantly altered soundtrack)

[@Chaso-1124]

I agree. Furthermore, I wonder why licensing is even required for much of this in the first place. If you have a racing game featuring real life cars, why should you need a license to feature those cars? It doesn't take anything away from the manufacturer and in fact may even promote their product and introduce new sales. Like how smokey and the bandit led to more sales for the Trans am. To me its a win win for both if done correctly

[@markula_4040]

@@Chaso-1124 Sorry but you are wrong. If you don't need a license, then there are no restrictions on what you can do with whatever it is. If I don't like Coke and I don't need a license to use it, what's to stop me from putting it in my game and making it appear that it makes people sick or something even worse?

[@DijaVlogsGames]

Physical copies allow me to preserve the game myself, so it‘s still a very important component of it.

[@DANCERcow]

No it isn't though, digital emulation and piracy of media is preservation, basically "how can I get free shit!" is preservation! Not actually buying the physical media to preserve (that's just absurd!)

[@DijaVlogsGames]

@@DANCERcow You can not make a copy of something without owning a copy to begin with. Wanting stuff for free is not preservation, it is piracy.

[@zaidabraham7310]

Yes, with a physical copy on console, it is a lot easier to rip the game contents. Digital content on console is a lot more difficult and requires modding or jailbreaking to dump the files onto external storage.

[@zadock6370]

@@DANCERcow but can I play those emulated and pirated games on the original consoles, tho?

[@Karthik-pn2yj]

​​@@DijaVlogsGames own a copy and copy until the end. who cares if it's piracy solftware piracy never was nor ever will be immoral

[@cubedmelons876]

The problem isn't physical or digital. The problem is DRM. If you can buy a DRM-free game digitally, then it's just as good as physical if not better. You can make your own physical copy of those if you want.

[@Finger112]

GOG is going to be the best option here for old games, since all of their games on that platform are DRM free. If the platform goes you can still download the games even after the company that managed the platform goes out of business.

[@staringcorgi6475]

Drms will always be cracked it’s only a matter of time

[@matteste]

The real problem is modern copyright, IP and licensing laws which is the source of this crap. They are in desperate need of a serious overhaul for the modern age in favor of the public. Of course, we all know that is never going to happen as the laws are in the corporations pockets and will only ever become even more draconian.

[@aquapendulum]

*DRM and copyright laws. Games will still get pulled from sales for expiration of copyright licenses regardless of the DRM method used on them.

[@_brutalista]

The problem is that more and more games are tethered to online services that brick them when the developer stops supporting it. You can have a game with no DRM still be rendered useless if it stops loading when the game server goes down.

[@chloboshoka]

This is why older games are better. When you get a game, it was the whole game.

[@Oldschoolgamer13]

And replay value. I can play Pikmin 1 many times but newer games are just one and done. I don't see myself replaying ToTK like I could replay Twilight Princess, OoT and MM.

[@williamhardee8863]

Not all DLC is bad, Postal 2 is a much better game now because of all the shit that was added to it years later. If you have a really passionate developer, added content can be a god send.

[@revelrem4409]

​@@williamhardee8863I second that with Oblivion's Shivering Isles. Goated DLC, simple as.

[@DANCERcow]

But as stated in this video title and video, you may own the physical media but you aren't preserving it(some how). Physical media isn't preservation, buying physical copies and consoles and older hardware for yourself to keep is not preservation!(some how, he explains it in the video though) illegal activity such as piracy is preservation, preservation isn't owning physical media, pirating and emulating it on your PC and digital archives is gaming preservation!(again some how....) Lol

[@morablaze486]

Politicians, Satan, Goverment: I don’t like that shit…I don’t like that shit…

[@The8bitbeard]

The emulation scene is doing the real work of game preservation.

[@AwakenedPhoenix309]

The only real preservation is emulation. I am not going to hold onto dozens of pieces of old hardware, take care of upkeep, and buy expensive upscalers to enjoy my games. Something IS lost in going all digital - there is something special about popping a cartridge in and firing up a Super Nintendo - but at the end of the day, it's easier and less expensive to maintain recent emulation devices than it is to keep a lot of old games and systems in working condition - especially since it is a battle you are guaranteed to lose over a long enough time.

[@KingKrouch]

The funny thing about the upkeep thing is that console modding is basically illegal in Japan, which means this includes stuff like HDMI mods too. The 3DS comes to mind, there is no way of displaying the game output for streaming without a modification. How Sakurai is able to hook up all of his consoles to an HDTV is a bit of an enigma without it. Better hope they support a standard like SCART or component.

[@igorgiuseppe1862]

games made for an CRT screen wont run properly on LCD/OLED, the graphics wont look as they intended to look. Preservation goes beyond the software.

[@AwakenedPhoenix309]

@@igorgiuseppe1862 While this is true - I don't see a solution outside of the software doing the best it can to emulate the look and feel of these games on digital screens with filters and the like. Unless a company takes up the cause of producing new CRTs, they will eventually all die. And I also can't say I have any interest in a CRT at the moment unless it can support modern standards. Even then - a CRT that's anywhere remotely as large as the TV I have now would be a bitch to move around. As much as I miss the analog signal, from a practical standpoint? Playing these games on modern displays with emulation that reduces input lag to a point I don't notice it is more than fine for me. If someone comes up with a way to preserve that original analog experience that isn't clunky, doesn't take up a lot of space, and isn't ridiculously expensive, I'm open to it. Otherwise - my primary concern is being able to play the games.

[@igorgiuseppe1862]

@@AwakenedPhoenix309 we have some CRT filters on retroarch (they support any emulator that can run as an core on retro arch) not that they are perfect, but you can get close enough especially if you have an CRT to compare while you calibrate your filter. maybe an projector can have an similiar experience never tested

[@houragents5490]

​@@KingKrouchJapan is the only country that truly gets it. Good for them. Best games, best devopers, best laws. BASED!

[@SparkNitr0]

I recently lost my copy of Super Smash Bros Brawl. The disc just barely works anymore, I had the game for a long time and spent many hours on it. I still haven't completed the game yet and to just see the game crash when I boot it up broke my heart. Made me realize that even if I protect my discs and cartridges anyway I can, They'll eventually just die off due to old age. My Wii and DS are barely hanging on and I just hope I can be able to play them for a couple of more years.

[@Draggobuttboi]

I'd recommend dumping the disc if you can, it can sometimes get around loading problems and allows you to keep them safe no matter what happens to the disc.

[@Tom-jw7ii]

That might just be the laser lens being dirty. Brawl is a dual-layer disc, which are harder for the console to read, so usually whenever something is amiss with the laser, Brawl and other dual-layer games stop working.

[@retrofan4963]

@@Draggobuttboi Just shows that Emulation online is a key of preservation for these games.

[@MadDogSolo]

I’d recommend getting into homebrew and backing stuff up if you have the stuff to do it or can get it, my PS2 already stopped reading discs but by that point I was already mostly playing on OPL, and I got a Wii about a year ago and I’m not even sure if that thing reads discs but I’m sure it does, and I’ve basically just been playing games though sd and USB

[@NatetheNintendofan]

​​@@Draggobuttboi would recommend sailing the Seven Seas with USB louder GX I now have a legit disc but that's how I started playing it originally I played that for like a year and then my mom and I finally gave in

[@andipajeroking]

Physical degradation is rarely happening. From my library of 100 physical games, pc, gb, wii, ps, i dont think i had one that failed, and when it did, i was easily able to clean it, replace the battery and continue using it. If you are careful and store them properly, usualy there aren t problems.

[@mattwhite4302]

They really did build things to last

[@MasterChef-official]

90 % of games lost because of it being only digital and locked to one console

[@AmartharDrakestone]

One thing wrong: Even back in the day where console games came on cartridges, it was still very much possible and fairly common to patch a game. They simply rereleased them with the patch implemented.

[@staringcorgi6475]

It’s callled a new cart

[@evdestroy5304]

​@@staringcorgi6475That's what he said.

[@aaronmarko]

You've missed a huge point with regards to media preservation which is that preservationists are not solely relying on physical media to ensure preservation. Physical game releases are a critical aspect of preservation as - if they have the entirety of the game's data on them - they can ensure that a snapshot of that game is captured to some degree in its entirety. Yes, preservationists are absolutely well aware that disc rot happens - which is why it is so vital to ensure media is not ONLY stored on one type of media forever. Sure, discs and cartridges will break down in time, but that's why we have the digital copy of the data in addition to the physical copy. Admittedly, modern physical releases have made this a huge problem for preservationists, but the alternative is to entirely leave preservation to video game corporations and they are are either indifferent at best or outright hostile to media preservation at worst. But that's why you are able to - under the law - to make digital backups of your media and emulate them on the device of your choosing. It's inevitable that your discs are going to break down, but you can still preserve it and ensure it remains accessible to some degree. But saying something like "physical is not preservation" is missing the point about what preservationists look to physical media for in the first place. Physical media and the content surrounding that media is what creates the foundation of preservation and ensures we have a place to start from. In a lot of instances, it is the ONLY reason why we know certain types of media exist. And depending on the type of media, the unfortunate reality is that some of these games which only exist in the digital space are impossible to preserve because that is how they were designed. At least if you can capture that game in some kind of physical media - like PT on the PS4 or Goldeneye on the Xbox 360 - you at least have a chance at extricating that information from the device it was downloaded to and storing it some place else. For a preservationist - even that digital copy which may be incomplete - is still better than nothing.

[@WebstersYouTube]

I agree that we need a physical cartridge or disc to dump in the first place, especially for older games that weren't digitally distributed. My main issue with a physical copy as preservation, which I don't think I articulated in the video, is not just the inevitable degradation but also the fact that only one person has access to that physical copy, whereas a dumped ROM / ISO is mirrored on multiple public websites and private hard drives, making the game available to everyone.

[@aaronmarko]

@@WebstersKZbin i'm of two minds about this because while yes, i do understand that piracy has played an integral role in the preservation space, i don't think pirates have the same goals as preservationists or historians and that is a very important distinction to make. I think from a preservation standpoint, it is very dangerous to rely exclusively on pirates who may be only be interested in preserving games rather than the context that surrounds them. I'm not saying that they haven't played an important role, but I think saying that "PIRACY WILL SAVE GAMES" is a generally bad argument to make because there are plenty of games they may not be able to save or many they just won't care about saving That being said, I couldn't agree more that with many of your points that you made here. I think you made a fantastic video with regards to preservation. I do think it missed some nuance but your heart was in the right place and overall, I think that any time someone is talking about preservation is a very, very good thing. We're in an age when a lot of people don't understand why it matters and it kills me. And let me just say that I couldn't agree more that it's a problem when only one person has a copy of a game. That is absolutely not preservation. Like, when game hoarders buy the only existing physical copy and and refuse to dump the ROM - like we've seen countless times on the NES - that's a problem. I don't think any preservationist would disagree with you that it's a problem when one person owns a piece of software and refuses to make it accessible.

[@animus248]

I'll leave a couple cents here. Museums serve the function of allowing many people to experience or see preserved historic objects and read about them. A physical "gaming museum" could also serve this function, but isn't very effective as it requires a physical location to exist in, excluding those who can't or won't travel to it. It also misses the mark of what games are about and doesn't take advantage of their typically inherent digital medium. The Internet allows for a digital museum of sorts to be made. Here games can be played in browser based emulators or downloaded to be used however one likes. Scans of relevant books, manuals and artwork can be viewed in as high of a resolution as whoever preserved them cared to provide. Soundtracks can be heard as well, even liner notes from physical releases can be viewed. A lot of information can be brought together, but only if people work to preserve, not just pirate. Neither digital or physical museums are ideal. In digital space, software emulators are rarely perfected and are usually played with vastly different controllers than originally intended. And of course there's that hard to describe lost feeling of putting in a cartridge and powering on, which only deepens with things like S&K's lock-on technology or peripherals like the Dreamcast fishing rod or maracas. Physical space has money, time and place to contend with. No one has enough of each. And deaths hourglass is always moving for each disc, cartridge and console. CRT TVs are a firmly turned page in history it seems, ever preventing legacy consoles from being seen on what they were designed for. If Analogue or other hardware emulation companies can provide new, accurate hardware that functions with everdrives/flash carts, it may be what bridges the gap. Then niche enjoyers can, at some cost, play downloaded games on their TV with an original controller or a new facsimile of one. Referring to a pdf of the manual or official strategy guide will replace the fluttering of pages in days gone by. But it won't be the same. It necessarily can't be. The scourge of time erodes all.

[@keeganmcfarland7507]

​@animus6957 That's terrifying!🥶 I hope indie game developers and AA game studios will save physical media of video games because indie game developers and AA game studios cares about you and listen to you.

[@macuser7048]

Physical games and systems wear out over time. You can refurbish them and repair them. But having digital versions of the games as roms will always have them on hand. You can copy them multiple times, store them on flash drives or in cloud storage, and run them in emulators on your computer or phone.

[@nightly_luke]

i'm a law student in Brazil (our laws are pretty simillar to Italy and Germany), and piracy for personal use is not so pursued here. It's very unusual to see someone getting a charge for downloading pirated content online, they focus on targeting who sell or make it disponible for download. btw, sorry for my bad english

[@albummutation2278]

your english is good honestly, the only mistake you made was "make it disponible", i'm not sure what word you meant there. "available" is a word that would fit there though with that sentence structure. keep learning and be open, surround yourself with english media, and you'll get there

[@nightly_luke]

@@albummutation2278 thank you so much! And yes, by "make it disponible" I meant distributing pirated cotent. In 2000's it was very common to see people selling pirated DVD's on streets, we called them "camelôs", a word derivated by "camelot" in Arab. The thing today are "TV Boxes", little Android devices with softwares like Kodi that can connect to illegal IP TV servers. Pirate satellite TV's was very common here in 2000's too. The government always make commercials against piracy and threatening people with images of hidden cameras inside these devices, just like cigarrete boxes, lol. I'm seriously thinking about getting into an english course, I only know the language by what I learnt on school and by listening to videos. I can say that my "passive english" is pretty good, but I'm still training to express myself in that language XD

[@gaffa2002]

Even for the ones who want to always be ¨legit¨ for some reason, software becomes public domain in Brazil 50 years after its release. We just need to wait another 20 years to legally have access to most of the 8 and 16bit era library.😅

[@nightly_luke]

@@gaffa2002 yeah, that's true

[@Thesakuraharona]

Unfortunately, they do not care in the United States. If you have pirated content, then you are in the wrong. End of story here. It is really frustrating because a lot of older games are no longer officially offered in any format, and buying them from websites like Ebay can cost up to several times the original retail price depending on the game. A few weeks ago I saw someone trying to sell an old PS1 game for $1,000! (I laughed at that) Most are not THAT bad, but it is common to see individuals and even some retailers trying to sell older games in the hundreds of dollars. Yet, THAT is the legally correct avenue you are expected to take in the US. This does not even take into account the fact physical media degrades, or scams, or the current problem where digital media is NOT owned only licensed... And they wonder why piracy is so popular. Your English is fine. I was able to understand what you were saying so just keep working on it and you will be just fine. :)

[@seguramlk]

Digital files + physical copies + ROMs + Original consoles = Game preservation

[@staringcorgi6475]

You can turn your physical media into digital media in homebrew with consoles such as the gcn,wii,ps2,ps3,xbox 360,psp, and ps vita

[@Turner_TV.classic]

Exactly this combination of options allowing for true preservation of the authentic experience and the game is the best option.

[@GiovanniV69]

I would add an interconnected and sharing community of people doing all that for the same media = game preservation. If there is no sharing, if only an individual does it, it wouldn't be true preservation, but it would at least be preservation for the individual (or family).

[@darksidegryphon5393]

It's a multi-pronged approach.

[@donjason7874]

It's really easy to not let your child access your card tbh, it's a issue entirely blown out of proportion.

[@wertywerrtyson5529]

I love it when they release a GOTY or similar with all DLC and patches on the disc but it is increasingly rare.

[@13Carrey1]

I would say Backwards Compatibility is a Preservation in some kind too and I think people underrate this!

[@sdknunes]

Agree

[@markofthewolvessucks8930]

Facts

[@macuser7048]

Wii to Gamecube, Gamecube to GBA, GBA to GBC and GB, PS2 to PS1, XBOX 360 to OG XBOX, ect.

[@tylerdohoney1544]

@@macuser7048You’re putting a lot of faith in everybody that owned a GameCube also owning the GameBoy Player…

[@JoshiiFox]

@@macuser7048isn't how the last xbox work ? we can play every xbox games since the first one ? no ?

[@zuffin1864]

Physical isn't necessarily preservation, but copying and torrenting is a form of it, as well as proffesional archivists working on it

[@dethiamthelaw1353]

You like physical versions for preservation purposes, I like physical versions because I just like collecting these things and think they look cool. We’re not the same

[@LuigiBlood]

To me even if there weren't any of the issues spoken about physical media, it's still not preservation to me. For me preservation is about the context, and especially, imo, being able to free the data from the shackles of their physical media they're stuck on, because aside from PC games, all games are relying on proprietary formats, and it's where dumping is just a very important process. The real preservation work is to make sure all of what we saved is passed on as best as we can. Currently we're cool with retro consoles that still work, but that isn't to be forever. And oddly enough, piracy does a huge portion of it, whether companies like it or not.

[@spitfire7170]

even most PC games are shackled to a proprietary format, if you don't want to shell out money for a windows license you need to pirate the operating system or use a compatibility layer to run them on a different OS(which is somewhat similar to emulating but not on a hardware level)

[@Erlaxis]

Yes, discs are not preservation, but they are something at least. They are better than no discs at all.

[@ChosenOne-il4bm]

Yeah There is a difference between movies and games Games are simulations with so much code Not a video file being stored on a disc With digital games you don’t have to worry about producting disc drives to play the disc You can focus on the hardware to have emulation technoldgy to play multiple codes

[@KSHdsktp]

I mean, nothing lasts forever of cos. But the thing is, should people be paying for something that they never own? Something that can be taken away from them as soon as the service provider becomes bankrupt or encounters a massive technological disaster.

[@diodora2381]

I can put almost every game released up to 2001 on a 1tb sd card, and then use retroarch to play as many of them as I want on almost any device I want to. Emulation is the future of preservation, not physical media on the original console. People have to face facts, games are going to be harder to play from now on. If you want to play games that were never released physically though, dumping them can be a painful process. Playing games from the past is about to get that much harder. But really, those who will suffer the most are the companies who devalue their heritage. They only see playing old games as getting in the way of sales today, but they really love those low-effort remakes. Kind of hard to cling onto those when you treat your past games as disposable. Less and less people are going to give a shit about games that have been unplayable for so long they've forgotten what it even was. Kinda hard to profit off existing IPs when you treat them like trash. It all catches up to you in the end.

[@lssjvegeta7103]

for a pirate playing past games is pretty damn ez

[@KopperNeoman]

The socialist cannot rewrite history if history is laid bare for all, can he? The workmen stopped being the proletariat when capitalism freed them.

[@anti-sjwandsjwannoysme6603]

Say what you will. Those "Low effort remakes" that youre talking about is producing new fans to the fandom. my example is the new FF7. it drove new fans to play the 90's one.

[@lssjvegeta7103]

@@anti-sjwandsjwannoysme6603 point taken, but the point that the remakes in question are still hot steaming doodoo still stands

[@qactustick]

@@lssjvegeta7103 So you're saying that it's the publishers' fault for not 'preserving' their games (though what you really mean here is you want to be able to play them, you don't care if they're actually preserved), but that when they do rerelease an older game, thus 'preserving' it (at least by your definition, which is just having a game be playable), it doesn't count either because presumably you don't want to pay for them, right? You just want free access to every old game? The folks interested in true preservation of gaming actually know what they're talking about in this area, and the mostly-entitled internet community who only wants free games doesn't even understand what the word preservation actually means.

[@SEB1991SEB]

Isn't it easier though for people to make roms of games from physical copies? At any rate, it'd be impossible for them to do so from cloud gaming, so we should definitely always fight against that.

[@Glitchgod0]

Not really anymore, consoles nowadays (especially Xbox) have security that are hard to circumvent.

[@SEB1991SEB]

@@Glitchgod0 That's what I mean though. Wouldn't it be easier to rip a game from a disc than to try to circumvent a console's security to rip a digital game from the console?

[@Glitchgod0]

@@SEB1991SEB Xbox discs in particular have only been dumped near launch, since then they updated security and It hasn't been cracked

[@Manic_Panic]

Here's the thing. For Sony, PS4/PS5 games come in a single ".PKG" file. The PKG file is encrypted with a key that no one can decrypt, the only way to decrypt it is by having the game installed on the HDD/SSD and then use homebrew tools on your jailbroken system to make a dump of it, often called "FPKG" (Fake package) which has no keys and can be shared. You can make a dump of the disc but it's completely worthless since the PKG is completely locked, also since the PS5 is still not properly jailbroken you cannot dump PS5 games without the encryption keys. Currently, only works for PS4 games. As for the Xbox One/Xbox Series systems... well, you can't even jailbreak them, they are tightly secure DRM monstrosities. I think game dumping from a disc is possible but once again, completely pointless.

[@SEB1991SEB]

@@Manic_Panic Ok interesting, thanks for the explanation.

[@Doublepulse]

Best approach to preservation is to have a disc/cart and a digital backup. I mean actually having the digital files stored on your computer or drive, and the copy on the cloud. Gaming companies will hate you for that as they just want to resell the same game to you later. But as long as you don’t share them around, I don’t think you are doing anything wrong but ya know some companies probably will think you are a criminal.

[@nightmarerex2035]

how the hell is it same as STEALING!!?! could never get it...... STEALING you steal that womans purse that woman is out the money and contents of the purse. but what if you could magicaly duplicate that womans purse and remove any personal documents? what if could just make copys of everything? companies would bitch "that kill the ecomy" the thing is you would NOT NEED an "ecomy" if coudl just magicaly copy ALL things..... the only thing one should be mad about is if they dont tell you HOW DID THEY DO IT?!?!

[@mrterrychaos]

It's frustrating to know more and more aspects of the experience will be lost to time. If gaming defaults to cloud based streaming in the future in a Stadia like system but at the right time, right place, right business model, think how much lost media we'll lose then. I think we may have lost some stuff to Stadia itself already. That said I can't see a future of gaming that's cloud streaming only while people are making money from hardware. Controllers, consoles, high refresh rate monitors, high end PC components, and of course VR. I'm curious how much time optical media has left. At this point I feel like I'd prefer where possible to support a DRM-free distributor like GOG before anyone else. Heck, I'd trust DRM like Steam with a digital purchase more than any console store. Steam has been around through the closure of 4 Nintendo digital stores, 1 Playstation store, and the days for PS3 and PS Vita and what little is left on those stores are numbered.

[@keeganmcfarland7507]

Well, it's up to the indie game developers and AA game studios to save physical media of video games because indie game developers and AA game studios cares about you and listen to you.

[@64bitmodels66]

at the end of the day Steam DRM can be cracked with a simple few clicks and then you have a no DRM version of the game ready to be played. There isn't much of a difference between that and GOG, steam just has a superficial lock on their games. The real security comes from the actual DRM protecting the game like other launchers, and denuvo

[@keeganmcfarland7507]

@64bitmodels66 DRM is trash BTW! Any alternative version of Steam store? Also, should gamers make/manufacturer their own pc gaming machine so that the small tech companies can beat the shit out of the big tech companies.

[@GameBoyyearsago]

@@keeganmcfarland7507 i think we should make our own manufacturing machine to beat the corporation, but we need huge investment to do this too : )

[@keeganmcfarland7507]

@@GameBoyyearsago true

[@vinhill1456]

great video, sir. My line is this: "does the original development studio that made this game lose out on cash if i emulate this instead of buying it?" if its a no, then it doesnt matter how old or new the game is to me. Overall though, emulation is a great thing.

[@atomicpuppet]

I recently sold off my Dreamcast collection. It's gotten to the point where the consoles are failing and I feared disc rot in the future. I had MVC2 disc that started getting pin holes in it. I hope others enjoy my collection the way I did before time takes it from all of us.

[@mainstreetsaint36]

Time is a cruel thing.

[@heavensea141]

Only happend if you you scratch the disc. Yes disc are vulnerable, and thats why takes care of them.

[@Oweblow]

Physical is not preservation, making a copy of the physical media and backing it up is.

[@pedrolantyer]

To me the best method is always going to be making these games public domain after a 30 year period, and just release the games and their source code online so that novice software developers can study the code to get a better understanding of the thought process the og team used, as well as to allow people to create on top of that IP. Doing something like this is always good because there are multiple libraries of abandonware, shareware and open source programs, but unfortunately due to a certain mouse and his grasp over the entertainment market, so things nowadays only become public domain 70 years after the death of the autor or 95 years after release. Physical media makes no difference as discs do suffer from disc rot and other times of deterioration, and if we are to look only at what's legal (because technically games are only licensed to run on the hardware they where made for, so unfortunately emulation is kind of a grey area even if you own a copy) it's absolutely pointless because console also deteriorate with time! PCBs don't last forever, discs don't last forever, copyrights also shouldn't last for a really long time (at least not with software)

[@ManuelKoegler]

While I don’t agree with everything, this is an overall great video tackling a complex issue. I could go on for hours to talking about this, but I’ll leave it at the following: Libraries. Should a game company for whatever reason stop pursuing sales of a particular game, there should be a public, easily accessible library from which one could lend said game or games and all of its contents. Once a game has been legally obtained for this library, it should be beyond the means of a company to have said game removed from the library. The library is not to make any profit directly from the items it lends out, so that legally it can’t be pursued for lost profits. This has worked for books. It does not solve the issue of private ownership, but it’s a step in the right direction if at least all contents can be accessed by everyone that wishes so, without threat of legal prosecution. Ideally, games should be considered art and preserved in museums for everyone to peruse.

[@HikikomoriMedia]

Preach on dude. I don't think people truly understand the implications of an all digital future until they start losing access to the games and agency over their purchases. Lose your account for any reason? Cya library!

[@mbern4530]

I don't see the big deal here. Why would you lose your account? That is like arguing that if there is a fire you lose your physical collection. Personally I went all digital years ago because I no longer want a bunch of boxes taking up space. I never play old games though so for me it makes no sense to try and hold on to games forever.

[@oo--7714]

@mbern4530 you can't sell your games though which is the biggest problem imo

[@mbern4530]

@@oo--7714 okay, so lets say you pay $60 for a game on disc and then sell it later for $30, effectively making it cost $30. You can just wait for a sale and buy the digital game for $30 and then you've paid the same and now you get to keep the game. Maybe its because I almost always wait for sales, but this is one of those arguments that doesn't make sense to me. And what if you hold onto the game because you like it, doesn't it quickly lose its value so it becomes worthless later for trading in?

[@HikikomoriMedia]

@@mbern4530there are countless examples of people losing access to their account through hacking, breaking Tos (intentionally or not) or servers going offline. Game gets delisted? You're at the mercy of the publisher for access to your property. I know you're playing devil's advocate at this point, because the video outlined all of this 😂

[@victim2077]

@@mbern4530 I generally don't wish misfortune on others, but for comments like this... I hope someone hacks and takes over your Steam (or on whatever you're buy... renting games on). Just for you to see how fragile your "all-digital" library is.

[@mrboojay]

Yeah, it’s very true. It seems like the best preservation is multiple backups of digital copies/rips that can be redistributed and then emulated since it’s much less reliant on obsolescence and failing hardware to enjoy. As long as those copies don’t go missing by other means of course. Hadn’t truly thought of the fact that current physical releases don’t really mean much gane wise.

[@neoqwerty]

Shout outs to the Brazilian Pokemon fans who preserved a specific version of Pokemon Emerald that was used often in Pokemon mods in 2012 that disappeared when emuparadise went down, as an example of a specific rip nearly disappearing if not for someone keeping a hold of it separate from others.

[@sleeper4386]

Physical media will always be king

[@trailduster6bt]

I was pissed when I got my copy of Origins Plus and read that all the “plus” content was dlc. I didn’t pay for a physical copy, I apparently paid for a box with a dlc code.

[@autobotstarscream765]

You paid for a physical copy...of the original Origins that they refused to give a physical copy on launch because they pulled a Bugthesda and launched it unfinished to get paid now but fix it later. Can't wait for Origins Plus Ultra to give us an actual physical copy of Origins Plus! 🤦‍♂️

[@bireland2012]

Another big issue with physical games being just download codes is the waste produced by them. Once that code is used, the box is completely useless unless somebody really wants to display it.

[@saidraalien6837]

It keeps the games alive in spirit , which you're undervaluing the importance of

[@infraredplayer]

7:30 Actually a bit of correction, Developers actually did constantly release newer versions of their games, a famous example being San Andreas way back in the PS1/PS2 era, usually quietly or in the form of greatest hits version so it was never really shipped and that's it for some. In some places you can see their versions persevered.

[@sheriffaboubakar9720]

The GTA Trilogy Xbox versions did have improvements to them, the Greatest Hits versions I’m not sure.

[@lmcgregoruk]

@@sheriffaboubakar9720The original Xbox version of GTA III had improvements over the PS2 version. GTA III/Vice City doublepack.

[@DanSutherland]

Yeah gotta disagree on some accounts for a variety of reasons. The only way to preserve the experience is through physical means. Without a VMU much of what's interesting about the Dreamcast is lost. Digital backups are great, and an enormous number of pirated copies creating a massive decentralized library is incidentally one of the most powerful forms of preservation. But everything digital is volatile too. Having physical copies have some volatility but at the very least it's a different kind of volatility. Ideally you want both on multiple fronts. And not just the end results of a physical/digital copy but records, of which the means to produce them, being preserved as well. As one other solution to preserve isn't merely digital copies, but also functional physical replicas. As technology progresses it will be more and more likely we will be able to repair and reproduce these technologies significantly easier. 3D printing, custom boards, and FPGA has come a very long way. The most important battle really is in ownership in general. There's no good reason you should not be able to repair and restore what you already own if you have the means to do so. Every consumer needs to make this battle a priority lest they want to be perpetually borrowing at their own loss.

[@Gatorade69]

I feel you on the slow internet. I had aDSL that took 2 hours to download a 1gb. A 30gb game would take 60hours to download. Most of my game purchases were physical but Activision games were the worst with the disc being a coaster. Luckily they just installed fiber in my area and I couldn't be happier.

[@kingtron1]

Good thing I still have my physical copy of Babylon's Fall, I can just pop that in and play it anytime I want.

[@lucyspencer9752]

I don't see physical games as the solution for game preservation but it is a lot better in my eyes than digital only.

[@Adenybaloi]

I still believe that physical copies are a better option for game preservation. One of the benefits of having a physical copy is the ability to dump it. That's not to say that it's impossible with digital games, it absolutely is possible, but it's a bit riskier to do. For example, when I want to dump a PS3 game, I do it with a jailbroken console by inserting my disc and using homebrew software to rip the game files. But if I had to do it with my digital library, that would mean me signing in to my PSN account, which could result in a ban for running a third-party firmware. However, I actually do agree with the points you made. Preservation through disc ownership has flaws and to me, my biggest concerns comes with online-DRM and the discs not containing the full game files. I have a feeling it will become a bigger issue in the future, but I think for the time being, physical copy is the safest option, at least for games that are playable without internet connectivity, which for a lot of single player games, its pretty doable. I would also advise getting the PC ports (if possible) and hope they get cracked.

[@The_MEMEphis]

Except the games aren't on the disk anymore

[@Adenybaloi]

@@The_MEMEphis yes, they are

[@rafdor5131]

100% agreed. I still go for physical.

[@baylordiamond8819]

​@@The_MEMEphismost of them are though. You can install 90% of modern games and play them with only the disc

[@nightmarerex2035]

why do companies BAN peaople with ABILITY TO PIRATE from the store makes no sense lol you would think you would want to be EXTRA nice to the one that can jsut say fuck-it im pirating!

[@speed3414]

I want to point out that, in the end of the day, physical media is just another form of file storage so there's nothing stopping publishers to add DRM on the discs, just like it happened with Gran Turismo 7

[@familyandfriends3519]

But you own the game

[@speed3414]

@@familyandfriends3519 did they remove the DRM?

[@edgaryzen4925]

@@familyandfriends3519meaningless. DRM = control. Why being ok with it when it doesn’t give us the complete sense of ownership. It doesn’t!

[@milktar2182]

​@@speed3414 They removed it with GT Sport

[@FederalPursuitVehicle]

Few things 1. The Crew would've been a better example of physical DRM. The game got killed by Ubisoft and is permanently unplayable. 2. Out of all genres, why do racing games have the most drm?

[@davisroth5437]

This is why I miss the consoles like the nes and snes classics, they were a good blend of physical and digital games, but sadly they didn’t have all the original games and they are no longer being made

[@SuperSky712]

Even Sonic Mania Plus had both the game and the dlc on one disc. The dlc code never bothered me personally but having younger relatives who don’t have an offical login for Nintendo Switch or such, meaning they won’t even be able to redeem the code. It sucks really, only thing I notice is since it’s “preservation”, without the Amy DLC, that is the “original experience”, but still, should’ve just been one package all together.

[@jerrymuffin8276]

When buying doesnt mean owning, piracy isnt stealing.

[@TransCanadaPhil]

The one that I really like about the Evercade console for instance is that when it does updates, it actually flashes and updates the cartridge itself. So when you do an update and take that cart out and put it in another Evercade it's updated already. This way, even if the company goes out of business in the future, there will still be used carts floating around with the latest version on them up until they went out of business. It's not dependant then on ensuring the servers are always up in the future or any kind of account. You'll be able to just buy another used Evercade console and use your already existing (and updated) cartridges that already have the last version of each of your games on them without needing any kind of reupdate that may not be possible to do in the future.

[@101Phase]

Based on everything I've seen and read about game preservation, the conclusion seems to be that there is no one solution: preservation has to be an ongoing effort. Even emulation will need to be updated as the emulators themselves may not be compatible with future operating systems.

[@Lonystal]

I like physical copies when a Disk actually has the game on it. If i wanted a download code I'm just buying it online.

[@JandoncomDerpyGaming]

I'm very odd in this area, because when it comes for PC I tend to just buy on steam, yet when I got my PS4 nearly all (not 100%) of my games have been CD/Physical. I wonder if it just ties back to the "good old days" of a console needing a cd or cartridge. I tend not to think of my PS4 as a PC (even though it is, in effect). Also, I have personaly witnessed an XBox 360 die to the "red ring of death". A sad day :-(

[@aqlandmirrorvideogamerandc2983]

There's a lot of people out here. Young and retro age who hate on physcial games. They want all digital. Its so sad. I grew up with physcial games like the genesis and more. I prefer my games physcial. Now i know that people hat on limited run and they arent perfect but they make physcial games and i like them. Physcial is so much better.

[@mawkcc]

The best thing to do would be for companies to back up digital copies of every game they release and preserve the original source code in a building that is built for this sort of thing like they've done for really old movies and music. And keep those hard drives from breaking so at any time they can go back and re release those games and re open the online servers if they want to. Video games especially certain ones should be at this point labeled as national treasures or at least historical references or something of important to be preserved. Legacy. Videos games have a lot of history and need to to live on for future generations to see and experience. It's not just a bunch of people who don't want to let go of the past. I wish more research and development was put into game preservation the same way it is for 60 to 80 year old movies, music, & books. Hell if we can preserve the bible for well over 1000 years and still have ancient artifacts we can preserve video games that are only 40 years old. But sadly out side of pc the only research and development is have ppl can capitalize and profit on the fact someone wants to replay a physical version of an old game. Keeping more and more people from being able to replay em as the years go by making it more and more hard to gets your hands in a copy. I mean more games are getting re releases and re makes and re released with upgraded graphics the thing is you have to remember in the early 2000s retro gaming was so unpopular and nobody knew how popular it would one day become nobody thought there was any money in it or need to preserve things like that. Like those who lived between 2002-2005 know what I'm talking about. Also 2006-2010. Nobody could of predicted the demand for retro video games that started to rise in the late 2010s. And a lot of the games that came out during the time of retro gaming being so popular are a victim of that. Like I was bullied and laughed at for still wanting to play Dreamcast in the spring of 2002 instead of getting a PS2. I was heavily made fun of for being a retro gamer growing up but at the same time I loved it because everything was so cheap to collect for but sadly I didn't keep much from my middle school days kus I thought I'd always be able to re get it since it's so unpopular and cheap to collect for little did I know it would become super popular high in demand and expensive.

[@fathersunglasses6085]

I can relate to you being bullied for playing retro games. Kids always only want the latest thing their friend is playing or being talked about in the playground. Kids nowadays scoff at great games like Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Half Life 2 I could go on. I do wonder what'll happen when we who actually grew up with those consoles eventually die. As these kids today don't have any nostalgia for the old systems like we do.

[@Tigerwolf102onYoutube]

Just remember that digital media is stored on physical materials.

[@AdrianFahrenheitTepes]

On big server farms running 24/7

[@ramonalavigne8953]

When I bought my OLED TV I was like "Ok, how do I connect my Megadrive and Gamecube to this then?" It's all working now but I had to buy a cable converter to connect to HDMI ports.

[@gamingguy9006]

Just use emulation

[@ramonalavigne8953]

@@gamingguy9006 But I don't need to. It all works now.

[@whetshu2641]

I recently started dumping my entire Switch library so that my game and their updates will be available to me should anything ever happen to my hardware. Also, fun fact, you can dump and use the NSO apps (NES, N64, etc.) in switch emulators just fine.

[@miz4535]

Majority of games are playable from the disc though. That argument keeps getting used but it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

[@brandonperez8977]

I'm not okay with the digital only games because some of them takes a lot of space and I don't like wasting money to get an external hard drive. There are also some downloading issues which will fail and have to start all over again and still be the same. Physical media is a better option for me.

[@ressljs]

I take it you have a Switch? I always opt for physical when possible, but honestly, there isn't much of an advantage when the system in question is my Playstation. Everything ends up on the hard drive anyway. But my Switch, I use one memory card for the DLC or patches for normal games and a second for FMV games. But if I downloaded all my games instead of buying physical, I'd need a stack of memory cards and it would be a nightmare keeping track of which game is on what card.

[@MasterChef-official]

It's not a switch only problem you clueless child

[@GTAbestplayer123]

Thankfully on the Xbox 360,the whole game is on the DVD because back then not everybody had a hard drive installed on their Xbox.

[@ComputerDog]

There are a few late 360 games that require a Hard Drive, but for the most part you're right.

[@GTAbestplayer123]

@@ComputerDog I hear GTA 5 needs a hard drive to install.

[@kylespevak6781]

Can someone explain the download code in a box thing? Like, if you don't have wifi, you can't download a game. So...?

[@Z64bit]

Most of my games still work old and new and if the 1.0 version works then it counts as preservation imo

[@BiohazardRay]

Problem About physical media aswell is real life things can ruin a collection Environmental things like a fire, earthquake, flood, tornado can wreck it If you were to do move the movers could break your games if there not good movers Ppl can steal them if they not careful of who comes in your house Disc Rot, deep scatches, or cracked discs The old hardware might not play them anymore or they may not support disc tray replacements in the future As someone who collects for the Ps1, Ps2 and somewhat Ps3 the real game preservation in the future Will be digital and emulation

[@AnarickTheDevil]

Why would you let others move your game collection? Disc rot isn't that common unless you don't take care of your things.

[@gentlesirpancakebottoms6692]

Apart from the glaring issue that is slowly starting to show but will be a much bigger problem in the future, the fact that discs and cartridges rot or die eventually. Physical is still a great form of "preservation" up until the 7th gen. The original game is at least on the disc and doesen't need the updates or DLC to function on original hardware. If said version of the game is the best way to play years later is another thing though. I have kept all my physical PC games mostly for collectible reasons. Some are unobtainable abandonware and is even hard to find a pirate copy of. But most games are available on sites like GOG with fan pathches or mods to make the game run on modern systems included in the installer, which makes those games the definitive edt to play. I collect PS2 games. And I have also kept my Xbox 360 collection. There is OFC a chance that some of these discs will rot or stop working. But they are all mint or near mint condition and my body will probably deteriorate faster than those and be gone long before my games rot:p The biggest problem in my experience with physical games is actually the antiquated hardware being worn out and stop working. My PS2 disc drive doesen't work anymore. But the console is softmodded so I run all my games as ROMs from a USB stick. I have made backup ROMs of all my other games though just in case. But yeah every physical game released for 8th gen or newer (including PC) are just glorified coasters unfortuantley. Preservation of games trough physical media is not a 100% safe guarantee. But pre 8th gen physical games is still a much safer bet than the current digital games and storefronts. GOG is doing tremendous work for PC though! In a way you are correct. Physical is not preservation but postponing of the inevitable. But I'll bet that my PS2 games either being played on original hardware or trough emulation will still be accessable and in working order on my shelf longer than the PS5 library will be accessable and playable. But the sad truth is that piracy is the best way to preserve games. Thats why I don''t bother with consoles anymore, and pirate any modern PC game with aggressive DRM software attached. I collect and keep my older games for nostalgia, and not letting go of a bygone era og videogame history. But I won't go trough more or less the same cycle with modern consoles in a decade or two. I dream of a future where a site like GOG or something similar are offering legal console ROMs for sale which you can purchase and run in a legal emulator which comes with the game. Like how games with dosbox for older PC games works on GOG now.

[@familyandfriends3519]

But you can buy PS5 physically games

[@gentlesirpancakebottoms6692]

Yes. But only 1/4 of the game in many cases is on the disc. I suppose that you get the whole game if its a smaller og medium indie title. But in bigger titles and AAA cases the game on the disc is an unfinished and lacking prioduct without a 100Gb patch.

[@familyandfriends3519]

@@gentlesirpancakebottoms6692 but you don't need the patch to at least to play the game end to finish right in it's original state and also don't they still sell physically PC games like cd find objects games I find in Walmart

[@familyandfriends3519]

@@gentlesirpancakebottoms6692 a lot of those PS5 games are like third party and are on physically discs small games like paw patrol and those kiddie games are complete

[@Matrix803]

Really good video. For a long time now, I've been feeling like PC gaming is the ideal way to go. Besides the obvious benefits like better graphics, free online multiplayer, the ability to choose your operating system, the ability to customize and upgrade individual hardware components of your system, the ability to use any control scheme you want, etc., I feel like PC is *the definitive way* to preserve video games. Think about it: When you download a ROM or even a modern PC game, the files for those games are now stored on *your* hard drive or solid-state drive, assuming you get them from services like Steam or GOG. Emulated games for older consoles are the same way-- they're all stored on your own storage medium. Having that personal storage medium local to you is as close as it gets to having a Sega Genesis game cartridge in your hand with the game on it. On top of that, emulators for older consoles can make the game look as pixel perfect as they can get, without extra special hardware needed to hook up the original console (because remember-- we're talking about doing this *on PC...*) After 23 years, my original childhood Sega Genesis finally died. It was only a matter of time, but it sucked. The way I enjoy Sega Genesis games now is primarily through emulation, and that's good enough and feasible enough for me. Unfortunately, things will always keep changing like this. It will never be the same as it was in the 1990's, the 2000's, the 2010's, etc. And when we're in the 2050's, it will never be even REMOTELY familiar to what the 2020's currently are. That's just the way it is. Hell, this comment may not even exist on the internet anymore if something were to happen to KZbin down the line and its servers get decommissioned. Time fucking sucks man. :P

[@edgaryzen4925]

Idk. I wish pc games can be awesome, easy, and cheap at the same time. $200 Series S is so good that I cannot think of the gaming pc to surpass that

[@ArcadeStriker]

You might want to check the subtitles for this video; at second one I got hit with what seems to be a chunk of the script filling the whole screen and then there were no subtitles. Very nice that you intended to have subtitles available but would be nice if you could fix them :)

[@WebstersYouTube]

Thanks for the heads up. The syncing issue should be fixed now. :)

[@zadock6370]

physical is stil preservation to a degree. it isn't the only form of preservation, but it still helps preserve it, especially if you want to play the game on the original hardware. and for consoles like the ds, emulating it is an abhorrent pain and doesn't feel right due to how the console is designed. digital and physical preservation is good. not to mention, you have no control of the game then. I want to actually own what I buy, not simply use it off a website. for people with super limited money, emulation and pirating is a good thing, but I prefer to play the games ontheir initial consoles as well as actually own what I buy, even if it is more expensive and effort to upkeep that stuff.

[@AdrianFahrenheitTepes]

If you really want to preserve, you have to keep replicating it over and over

[@pancrase9048]

Plug and play emulating devices in my opinion are the future of game preservation, were already seeing them on Amazon, with varying degrees of quality but its there.

[@jessicaslunacy]

I don't think this has to be an either/or discussion. I don't like playing digital versions but I recognize their merits. I believe the best approach to preservation is physical and digital going hand in hand. Use emulation, make archives of ROMs, but keep supporting FPGA hardware, games backed up on Everdrives, and protect the originals to the extent possible, the redundancy there to protect against any damage to the digital infrastructure in the future.

[@DannyBenS94]

This is all true. Though while physical media slowly rots over time, they at least (can) last a lot longer than digital media, like despite it being hard at times to get them to run, NES, SNES and Genesis/Mega Drive games can still work. Same situation with the consoles they're made for. And I know there have been reports on GameCube discs rotting faster than PS2 and Xbox discs, but I personally haven't noticed it yet with my games. Not saying it won't happen, it just hasn't yet. The point I'm making is while physical media won't be preserved forever, they usually are way longer than digital media (in terms of availability to those who don't own them). But I do still like the ROMs and IOSs, at least for games not currently on the market. Nintendo needs to either have a proper way to play those games again or shut up about people playing their games through emulation. If they're not going to release them, what choice do people have? Shelling out possibly hundreds of dollars for like 3 Nintendo games? Yeah I'm not doing that lol. Great video btw.

[@BlueEyedVibeChecker]

In my experience, my SEGA CD and Dreamcast discs have outlasted several Xbox games, and my PS2 library has lost countless discs. Though Xbox seems to be isolated cases of certain batches of games, and not en masse like my PlayStation 2 games that suddenly just started dying.

[@Bmontepeque11]

Curiously, the only way to TRULY preserve game is digitally 🧐 Through piracy and emulation we don't have to deal with having all of the original hardware and trying to fight against the unrelenting march of time 🧐

[@MrEffectfilms]

People are nostalgic for physical media and miss them, which I can understand but this is something that doesn't help in the long run. Disks and cartridges can last a long time if you take care of them but eventually they will give out and go bad. Roms however are completely digital and so as long as they aren't lost, corrupted, or deleted they actually CAN last forever. It's sad for those who grew up with physical media but unfortunately digital only is not only the inevitable future, it's also the best future.

[@Leonard_Wolf_2056]

You are forgetting the internet can die one day as well. For whatever reason. Meaning nothing lasts forever.

[@MrEffectfilms]

@@Leonard_Wolf_2056 but if that's the case then there is no true preservation.

[@MasterChef-official]

nothing digital is owned by you you people have a child mindset disc can evolve over the years never settle for one way

[@ExtremeWreck]

@@Leonard_Wolf_2056 The whole planet can die one day as well.

[@otakubullfrog1665]

I imagine the argument for damages in the case of pirating McDonald's Global Gladiators is that, by making the game freely available, you're stealing the profits that the copyright holder would have reaped when the game was later rereleased, remastered, remade, sold in an e-shop or whatnot. We can all be pretty sure that some sort of Ultimate McDonald's Collection is never coming, but I suppose we can't really prove that they aren't about to release one any day now and they can afford more lawyers than we can.

[@autobotstarscream765]

If McDick's wants our money, it's time to give the people what they want, same goes for Burger King and the BK Games Trilogy.

[@kodytaylor1846]

sorry but for movies i don't care but will always want physical games. In fact is somebody can bring back the little paper manuals i bet they would sell even better just for that factor alone. I get that some small indie games and older remasters they come online only

[@SEB1991SEB]

Finally, someone gets it, the gaming community can be so shortsighted when it comes to stuff like this. Like when people argued that if you want backwards compatibility, then you can just play the original console, childishly believing that consoles last forever. Or when people amassed entire digital game collections, and then were somehow so surprised when Nintendo closed their online stores, as if they were going to keep them going forever for their sake. I saw that coming literally from day one. The only real long-term solution for game preservation is emulation.

[@BLASTIC0]

if they were to take fortnite offline, it should be pretty easy for epic to make it a buyable game for whatever price and to play you have find your own server... they would have to make it so you could set up your own server as well. idk.

[@dannymormone]

Great vid, can you also do the one you suggested about the legality of it all as that's a very interesting topic especially since I don't believe that any single person has been pulled up for downloading any of the older games.

[@muizzsiddique]

It hurts seeing people completely devalue DRM-free but shout through the skies about how owning physical is the only way to own something.

[@WebstersYouTube]

Right? That disc may as well be a coaster if there's online check-ins, an always-online requirement, etc.

[@bretonfabrice]

Exactly this. DRM Free is the only long term solution.

[@hellacia8151]

@@bretonfabrice What's even worse is when shitty drm like Denuvo is implemented the only person/team that will willingly crack it will only do it through monetary gains

[@familyandfriends3519]

@@WebstersKZbin but the PS3 Xbox 360 PS Vita 3ds Wii u PS4 and PS5 and Nintendo switch you don't need internet for there setup and you don't need online to play games on the system right

[@yummynubs3646]

@@familyandfriends3519 Clueless

[@jaden149]

the thing is well yes physical will one day degrade to a point of no longer working however they will most likely last longer then the digital store front will at least for console users plus games can be pulled so i will take physical any day over digital well at least for new consoles when it comes to the old emulation is king for preservation there are so many old games people just would not have access to with out emulators

[@heavensea141]

Only truth if the disc get scratched. Takes care of them they last over you're lifetime

[@KROMERES]

I knew this was a fail when I purchased a physical copy of Driveclub and deleted the update from the hard drive to save space. When I wanted to play it again it had been delisted. Now I have a useless purchase. I hate all digital!

[@user-sf9en6sg7h]

My problem with most game is that they are just busy work and not fun at all.

[@brandonwilliams6119]

This was a very fun watch and it really goes to show that fans and gamers really do care about Game Preservation, also the fact that many game eventually go out of print and are very hard to get ahold of really says a lot about the importance of preservation. We can’t trust gaming companies to preserve their own library of hidden gems. I’m surprised you didn’t mention Marvel Vs Capcom 1 & 2 those are famous examples of games getting delisted.

[@macuser7048]

Never even got the chance to download them. But at least I could burn the ISOs to CDs and play them on my Dreamcast.

[@DanteSwordV]

Disagree and Agree at the same time: 1. Physical copies are form of preservation - but not the Ultimate Form of Preservation. There are other forms of preservation that are way better than physical original discs. But there is a lot of people who prefer having some way of preserving the game in it's official and LEGAL form. There were also cases where I couldn't find certain games anywhere online but I managed to buy physical copy and now I am a proud owner of said game. 2. Even if the devices can break (like my both PS2s, one died and second one was damaged by me) I still have my PS2 games on my shelf and can put it into my PC and play it through PCSX2. I don't have to go to any "rom sites" and search for these games. Each time you get something from any of those sites you put yourself at risk of getting viruses etc. Also - Blu Ray discs can also be ripped into PC and played with RPCS3, that doesn't only apply to PS1 and 2. 3. And can we stop making excuses for greedy companies that put codes into game releases? Sonic Origins Plus - I have game on steam anyway but still gonna make this argument. 12 Game Gear games are not that big in size to excuse not putting it on BluRay disc. The code is a form of greediness that for everyone who buys it second hand, has to pay additionally for a DLC that should've been included on disc. In my case it's even worse, I have my main account on different region. So even if I buy the game new for PS5, I can't really use the code. Sure, I may use my second account to register the DLC and download it, but do I have a guarantee that it's gonna work for my main account to get achievements and progress? There are some DLCs that simply don't work on other accounts logged in on the same consoles. 4. And these pesky physical copies, allow me to play the games unpatched. I value ability of playing unpatched AC Unity or buggy Cyberpunk 2077. If the game needs an update to work, or is only digital. Any way to play this unpatched version and being able to experience the initial state of the game is gone. Some games can be played like that if you obtain them by not fully legal means, but some can't even if you hit those corners of the internet. Some more aware publishers allow you to access older build of a game on steam - like Resident evil 2 and 3 remakes by Capcom. But that is just rarity these days. 5. Some games also get delisted and you are unable to preserve it in other ways. Look at Xbox One's Forza Horizon 2 and Forza Motorsport 5 and 6. Also Halo 5. Forza games are delisted and only way to access them is through physical discs that are in circulations (or if u bought it digitally u have access to them). Halo 5 probably won't get delisted but who knows at this point. 6. Final point, I will just mention, that now we have situation with Skullgirls. There is no physical release (besides Limited Run Games one) and to legally play the game, you have to play as it is now on digital storefronts. Censored and with cut content - because new people in the studio were not ok with what is in the game that was made by different people. You aren't allowed legally to obtain any other version of the game, because it is still functional and being sold and law doesn't care that you want to see all the original panty shots and full story of one of the characters. Sorry for the length, I know that nobody gonna read it 🤣

[@WebstersYouTube]

Oh the corporations are absolutely taking anti-consumer approaches, agreed. There's no way Amy and 12 Game Gear games wouldn't fit onto that Blu Ray. I suspect it's another case of printing before the content was ready to arbitrarily release on Sonic's fictional birthday. Not being able to rollback to previous versions is an interesting point, especially for historians. I'm mainly a console player, but am I right in saying that Resident Evils 2 and 3 got a patch that removed ray tracing and support for an older Direct X with no way to reverse those downgrades? I wasn't aware of the Skullgirls situation. Why take the reins as developers of an existing franchise if you have issues with that franchise's content?

[@retrofan4963]

@DanteSwordDX Your solution is mentioned in the video lol, Dumping ROMs in an emulator. Except you use your own physical copies to dump the ROM on an emulator. It's honestly not that different from people finding ROMs online. The solution still stands that in order to really preserve the games is through emulation on a PC. The point is that only relying physical copies and the system physical is for without relying on Emulation doesn't work for preservation in a long run. Disks get scratched, game cartridges will lose battery power and wear out for the game not to work, and Game Systems does not last forever either. Also, apparantly there are people who argue that when it comes legality, ROM dumping your own physical copies for an Emulator is no different form find a ROM in a website. They still say it's also illegal for some reason. Personally I'll say it's ok to download ROMs online and ROM dumping your own physical copies. Game companies don't get any cent from second hand copies from games back then. So what's the loss?

[@DanteSwordV]

@@retrofan4963 I had my response written, but I actually found better one for you. Find me a way to PLAY "Star Trek (2013)" on PC. If physical copies are so bad and INTERNET IS THE FUTURE... Find me a place where can I obtain this game, that was tied to steam, got delisted, all trackers online are dead, and emulation for this game isn't possible because it's not "playable" - yet, maybe in 10 years it will be... who knows. I want to play "Star Trek (2013)" now. Today. Want to play on PC to get better graphics and resolutions. (I will add that internet archive is a dump of a Steam Disc, so no u won't get it working). That was the point of my comment. But NOW I found perfect example to portray it for people claiming that "internet is the way". I never said anything about Playing on Consoles. My point was of buying physical game of a game that can't be found online and if you would be "deep into gaming and emulation" - u'd know that many games are just unobtainable. Glad I own some of these games. And what's at loss? - Nothing. But in eyes of THE LAW, these games are still illegal. That's why so many trackers and hosting sites go down, because still these games are uploaded there illegally. If these sites go down, and you don't have them saved or actual physical legal copies, then you won't get to play them at all. And my discs don't get scratched, sounds like you problem. Even PS1 games that I got for cheap used, don't have single scratch on them. If you keep your discs in safe places, they won't rot and won't get scratched. I still have 2 rotten discs, someone stored them badly, and despite being rotten still work. And Blu Ray discs, are incredibly hard to scratch, so I don't know what u do with your discs my guy. Emulation is legal, you can do what you want. Just get your own Bios from your console or keys from your switch. PS3 firmware is legal to download from official PS site. You are full legal good to play emulation. Stop sperading myths about emulation being illegal. Well it will be if u download bios for PS2 from the internet, if u get yours, you good. And I do own my favorite games on discs. And if they rot or lose data in next 100 yeras... Guess what, in next 100 years, I won't really care. Maybe u need to read my comment more times to get what I meant (I don't mean that's not an insult).

[@101Phase]

15:00 playing devil's advocate here: the damage would be future potential. McDonalds, Sega or whoever owns that copyright could argue that they MAY decide to re-release the game some time in the future in digital form, therefore uploading your dumped ROM could impact their future sales. I'm pretty sure that was the reason behind Nintendo shutting down the Metroid 2 fan remake AM2R because they themselves were working on Samus Returns

[@famitronic9870]

This makes sense, considering that Game Gear games are just too large in size to fit on a disc or cartridge.

[@s0m3dude1]

Well edited video and I understand what you’re saying that physical media is not preservation guaranteed, but the games I’ve actually lost over the years have been App Store ones not updated to latest iOS, or outright taken down, rarely known online flash games and Steam games no longer available for purchase. Many of those are impossible to find now. I think it won’t be long before Steam or companies begin removing Games from the store regardless of whether you purchased them much like the App Store and Google Stadia debacle. Meanwhile I recently bought a PS2 and some games that played perfectly well. I can get San Andreas on PS2, but on Steam? Not anymore. And how long till it vanishes from libraries like my IOS games

[@WebstersYouTube]

Hmm, mobile seems to be much happier to pull a PT and just say "You can't even redownload this." Not to mention, as you say, new operating systems just making thousands of games incompatible and unplayable overnight. :(

[@s0m3dude1]

@@WebstersKZbinyeah it’s sadly true. I think in the long run this debate won’t matter. What game companies really want I believe is an always online situation where the code is never accessible locally, it will only be on their servers. We’ll have inputs and controls on our end but no ability to pirate or emulate the actual game. Even with films, you can get a camera and literally record your screen in a dystopian scenario. With games, in future preservation may no longer the possible for the same reason nobody owns a local copy of ChatGPT

[@WebstersYouTube]

@somedude4356 if it comes to a point where Stadia-like services / cloud streaming is the only option, I think a lot of us, myself included, would just straight up abandon the hobby.

[@zenksren8206]

Oh my God yes. Good luck playing Infinity Blade in this day and age

[@triledink]

If a game releases physically it should be complete physically, just like sonic origins plus did not do. Why is the plus on the cart when it’s missing the dlc, it’s just the standard version instead. I remember those fallout and elders scrolls physical game of the year edition copies all came with a separate disc inside the case that installs all the dlc without needing any internet, and once you’re done you just put in the game disc and everything is there including all the dlc.

[@WebstersYouTube]

I would absolutely prefer physical editions to be complete, but corporations only think about money. :(

[@triledink]

@@WebstersKZbin Yeah, true.

[@Thesakuraharona]

Thank you for the website Does It Play. That is extremely useful to me. The fact that most games now are only partially playable offline is ridiculous (example: Scott Pilgrim Complete Edition. Apparently the base game is playable offline, but the DLC that makes it complete is locked behind Ubisoft account -_- )

[@JJW199]

Selected Capcom and Namco (Bandai Namco) title release on JP, US and Asia as physical copy (with a optional download version), but UK/EU release as download only due to 1 of 2 reason could not be bothered releasing physical version or marking budget reason (e.g: Katamari Reroll Series, Mobile Suit Gundam Extreme Vs. Maxi Boost ON, Phoenix Wright & Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney Trilogy, The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles, Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective, Mega Man 11 - Switch Version and Mega Man Legacy Collection Series)

[@WebstersYouTube]

That's annoying. If they can do it for the Asian release, why can't they do that for the rest of us?

[@JJW199]

Totally call it that Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney Trilogy will be download only both US/Canada and UK/EU, only Japan & Asia will get Physical Copy 😑

[@hellacia8151]

The solution is and always will be emulation/cracking/piracy

[@DFX4509B]

And services like GOG or 7digital that sell DRM-free versions of stuff.

[@DoomyRei]

Like a dragon needs a physical copy

[@ericmeiring2512]

It got a ps5 release didn't it?

[@clonekrizalid]

Yes, it is. A recently example, The Callisto Protocol (2022). It's impossible play the Day 1 ver. without a Physical disc.

[@pineappleroad]

I have a game on the nintendo switch (physical copy) that got pulled from the store (the funny thing, is i think it got pulled BEFORE i even purchased it)

[@sonicfanfirst]

I think he's exaggerating a bit, of course old hardware has its issues over time, (consoles) but old CD's (DVDs and Blu-rays) don't really get a lot of damage the way he said, I say this from my personal experience, I own old sonic games from the beginning of 2000s that I got when I was a kid, they were new games back then (Sonic Heroes, Shadow The Hedgehog and more) and they still work perfectly, of course they have scratches, but that doesn't mean they won't work, you just need to take care of them 😉

[@heavensea141]

Do not scratch them ' Threat them with respect ' As long you don't they last ' I also speak from first hand experience '

[@silverdamascus2023]

Copyright in USA lasts 95 years, videogame carts and discs last around 50 years. Without pirated copies and ROM dumps, many videogames would be lost forever.

[@thesupersucc4966]

physical games are preservation by having orginial art work and cart/disc digtial games also act as preservation by letting you get the games whenever digital is more convient but physical games to some people are special to have everything of when the game released you also don't actually own the game they just let you have files to it

[@WebstersYouTube]

I love the sleeve artwork and manuals. A physical copy degrades and only one person can get their hands on it, but digital scans uploaded to Launchbox DB, Covers Project etc. can exist on thousands of hard drives and are available for anyone to look at.

[@familyandfriends3519]

Files what do you mean by that

[@tizzi91able]

That doesn't mean that you can't run ver 1.0 from disc. It's preservation anyway better that not owning digital

[@stitchfan_8290]

7:29 Reminds me of Space Balls. The game discs are out in stores before the game is finished.

[@Malignantt1]

The reason i buy physical on switch is because i like to sell games i finish and dont play anymore to recoup some of that money. Also, a lot of physical games end up being cheaper than the eshop. Most of the time, a LOT cheaper. Example: all mario games on the eshop are $60 but about half of them are $30 physically. I cant buy physical on my pc, so when i get a console i would like to keep my games with the box art as there is a novelty to it.

[@WebstersYouTube]

Fully agree. Those benefits to physical are brought up in the video.