After Mindfulness - "Dialog on the Deep States of Samadhi"

[@martinratcliffe5987]

As meditation deepens, I find that I come back to my cushion like a homing pigeon; the sound timer is not something I wait for, but something that feels like an inturruption. The simple joy of coming fully to rest, in body and mind.

[@AgeofColossus]

Shaila really complements Ajahn Brahm well with her own wisdom and teaching style. Thank you for recording this dialogue. Sadhu.

[@jamesburns5223]

Loved this! Especially the part about the nimitta. I have seen it in my meditation but have not stabilized it except for one occasion. When it did occur I got freaked out by the experience and ran to MN 128 (the one Ajhan Brahm mentions) and saw how fear was something to overcome when working with the nimitta. It was so odd to feel my sense of self being disintegrated and my awareness being absorbed into the light.

[@respectdhamma3645]

Many common mistakes in breath meditation can happen. Especially about identifying nimitta. Mistakes of Pa Auk Meditation has more details

[@kevinrothi8526]

It's unfortunate that the audio for this important conversation is so poorly recorded.

[@awarezen.meditate]

Insightful and inspiring dialogue. Thank you.

[@frankcka]

How can pure consciousness exist without the body? How can pure consciousness disparage another form of bliss that does not disconnect one from the senses? Is that too not merely ego? To pursue something perceived as superior? And is not renouncing (senses, "will") too not will?

[@igaraparana]

It's conceivable only if some kind of panpsychism is true. The overwhelming scientific view is that consciousness is a result of brain processes, and in Buddhism it's one of the five aggregates - it cannot exist by itself but only in conjunction with the 4 other khandas, the first being rupa (form) - i.e. the body, and it is by itself dependent on other causes. And our mental lives are a lot more than consciousness alone - which is only the first-person perspective. I cannot see how freely-floating consciousness could possibly mean, since all our conscious states are about something. If consciousness existed on its own, it wouldn't be us, or me. Many people have a tendency to think of 'consciousness' as something like the soul - a magical stuff that has causal power and encompasses much of our mental life and can perhaps survive death. No reason whatsoever to believe that's so.

[@jamesburns5223]

@@igaraparana There is a simple experiment you can do to find out for yourself. Reach fourth jhana and then direct your mind to the knowledge of past lives, or to create a mind made body (astral projection), etc. I think the only way to know for sure is via direct experience. The fourth jhana is the lens through which you can experience these things, at least that is what the suttas and individuals like Daniel Ingram say. At worst you experience amazing bliss states and your mind fabricates an amazing realistic adventure where you can see past lives or travel to spiritual realms. Alternatively, and perhaps easier, you can do Holotropic breath work, though I doubt you will have as much control with regard to exploring these topics.

[@billymac29]

Very helpful.... thank you

[@oliverford5367]

It's really hard enjoy things without attachment. I find I either just want to do meditation always, or I don't care about it and want to do other stuff ("get a life" as people say to Ajahn Brahm). I've never been good at balancing the two.

[@balajiramamurthy9105]

Mindfulness is more analytical.. powdery.. Jhanas unifies this dry powder to a unified .. like soap powder of mindfulness becomes one ball of soap in jhana

[@martinratcliffe5987]

True. First jhana actually includes a kind of focused reflection, according to certain commentaries. First jhana there is a sense of me that is using my will and my mind in the work of self purification. In second jhana, these tools can be put aside, or rather start to feel redundant. The bright and light quality of mind begins to do all the talking at this point in.

[@igaraparana]

Sorry, don't buy for a second the story of the person spending 8 days continually in one of the jhanas, forsaking food, water, not requiring the toilet, and everything else. Where's the evidence? Did anybody film this? Did the press get notified? If someone can do that, have them do it for a TV station and you'll attract a vast amount of interest to Buddhism. Wouldn't that be an ethical thing to do? I've also heard people make the statement that in the 4th jhana there have been cases of people who were thought to be dead because they were not breathing. Should be effortless for a very capable meditator to demonstrate, so demonstrate it! That ought to win the Randi $1m dollar prize - but would certainly fascinate the world too.

[@jamesburns5223]

I see it as possible for a number of reasons. (1) you can easily go 8 days without food. I lived with a friend that did 40. (2) People dry fast (meaning no water) for longer than 8 days. (3) Intestinal motility (moving your bowels) is directly tied to physical movement. One of the "prescriptions" for constipation is exercise. The human body can do really crazy things given the right conditions. That being said you can believe or disbelieve anything you want.

[@yerpderp6800]

@@jamesburns5223 exactly, the stuff mentioned is really not that crazy and tbh not even valid for the Randi challenge since there's nothing particularly remarkable about it. Almost anyone can reach this state after extensive practice and preparation beforehand. It's prolly the 8 days without water that seems suspicious since there's the survival Rule of Threes, essentially saying you can't make it beyond 3 days without water. However this assumes constant activity in environments that will probably push you hard. Staying in a relaxed position for an extensive period of time in ideal conditions while being experienced in staying at a low-activity brain state drastically reduces daily energy expenditure. Like you mentioned there's even dry fasting, in fact there's a whole community of people doing dry fasts on reddit. The typical limit people push is 3-5 days, there are folks that have done like 8 or 12 though. So it's really not surprising to me a meditator can do 8.

[@默-c1r]

Lots of animals go into hiberation. I'm talking about mammals that are related to us. Maybe a jhana is a way to turn on this vestigial hibernation network. Also, the types of people who do jhanas are probably not looking to impress journalists with this crazy stuff.