AI Artwork, Player Feedback & Setting Changes - The Project Zomboid Build 42 Debacle

[@ThatGuyPredz]

Update: They've deactivated my account and removed me from their slack channel (assumingly over this video) if you're wondering how any criticism is handled :)

[@Darth001033]

This doesn't bode well then. I've noticed that on their Steam updates they don't allow comments on it anymore.

[@aiden3585]

wow, you weren't even that critical...

[@DCPTF2]

you're joking right?, this is by far the fairest take i've seen on this and their response is to kick you to the curb?

[@brettpgh3312]

Oh. Wow. Don't love that.

[@PinkPrestine]

There goes alot of respect out of the window then, this video wasn't that harsh even on the devs.

[@nithsk]

I think its funny that within the first 10 hours there were already mods replacing moodle and loading screen art

[@xb6xx]

I'm not surprised at all. The new moodle icons look terrible. They should revert them in vanilla and add an option to add them back as "alternative" icons.

[@Loginvvvvv]

​@@xb6xx so true. Like, they look alright? But they look modded. They're kinda out of place, and are not vanilla at all

[@mistersinister2043]

@@xb6xx No they look good. You guys are just stuck in the past.

[@absolutelyscrumptious7552]

​@@xb6xx What I'm hearing is a lot of complaining that the developers are enhancing their work. You're just used to the old moodles and that's it, it isn't any deeper. The new ones look good and are definitely a lot clearer in what they are portraying. From an objective standpoint, they are better

[@xb6xx]

@@mistersinister2043 It looks like they were dumbed down, to remove any style.

[@guynamedmaggi5520]

If they wanted to nerf combat a bit more they shouldve made it where you were sore the day after, when your adrenaline is pumping your not gonna notice muscle strain

[@kayleighgriva4817]

So true

[@bigbubbles6456]

Adrenaline fatigue is a thing, but you do make a point, some psychically fit people can go hours/days on adrenaline alone.

[@idrathernot_2]

This one is a legitimate concern. Combat is already hard enough.

[@absolutelyscrumptious7552]

@@idrathernot_2 Combat isn't hard at all, what are you talking about?

[@h347h]

This sounds stupid. Get good

[@thechunguses]

Personaly i hate the new artstyle it just reminds me of all those generic shit zombie mobile games use and would love if it was more like the old style.

[@TemmieContingenC]

true

[@birubluebiru6861]

This

[@kosmic9809]

they geometry-dash-ified the moodles bro

[@similarflyer0]

i think it does look worse yes but at the end of the day i don't care since it doesn't effect the gameplay yall lowkey makin a mountain out of a mole hill wit this ai art shit and if it really bothers you that much someones either gonna make it a mod or someone already made it a mod

[@opbananas2331]

@@similarflyer0the reason people are so worried about AI art even if you ignore the ethical implications it’s the slippery slope of using AI to cut corners.

[@PatchworkRose567]

The whole appeal to me with project zomboid is its unique art style. The low poly early isometric computer game style makes it stand out from every other zombie game out there. The pixelated moodles and icons helped with that. Making the art smooth makes it feel more generic. I will say the loading screen artwork feels wonky but I can’t say for 100% certain if it is AI or just weirdly drawn but it definitely has something off about it.

[@GuyWhoSoundsTwelve]

I was just about to say the same thing! Playing PZ is like a time-capsule back into the late 00's and early 10's for me. It's a big part of what makes Project Zomboid into the cozy, creepy, timeless old game it is. The new artwork and moodles, AI or not, are pretty enough, but it looks modern. Modernity doesn't belong in PZ's graphics - the retro vibe is half the charm.

[@l0rf]

Someone else commented that this looks like any mobile phone trash game with their obnoxious and misleading ads. I completely agree, it looks soulless and does nothing to evoke 'Zomboid' for me. I'm sick of these garbage ads made with zero effort promoting garbage games intended to steal my time and money. I don't want zomboid to be in that same category even by association.

[@lesnoyelf228]

@@l0rf Just like Victoria 3 UI and graphics look just off, "mobile gaming"-like, very "arcade", compared to its predecessor victoria 2 or "sister" game Europa Universalis IV

[@tumble8323]

The game has been changing it’s art style since build 41

[@totallynoteverything1.]

I'm an artist who's pretty alright at spotting ai, and it's not ai, it just looks goofy and mobile game-ish

[@patrickazzarella6729]

Muscle strain should happen the day after, like with exercise and the effect slowly goes away as you build strength

[@ChayGrice]

Exactly! They already had the pain appearing a little while after exercising, so just change that to the muscle strain. Either that or add a "adrenaline" meter, and the higher the adrenaline, the lower the effects of strain, adrenaline slowly fades after a combat/exercise situation and the muscle strain starts to kick in, having built up beforehand. Adrenaline could also block pain for a short while too, you get bit but you don't feel it until five minutes later, you could even find some drugs that effect it and have traits that effect your characters ability too create adrenaline. They gave us all the down sides of muscles strain and none of the positives.

[@veliki_dlek]

What you're talking about is not muscle strain, that is delayed onset muscle soreness and it rarely causes you to be weaker, it's just a byproduct of exercise and pretty much goes away when you warm up. What the devs added in B42 and named "muscle strain" is your muscles just failing during a physical activity. Imagine doing any kind of exercise, let's say bicep curls and your muscles simply fail and you're not able to curl the weight anymore and have to rest or decrease the weight. That's what they tried to represent with "muscle strain", they just overdid it.

[@eldermartins3220]

True! When we exercise, we get muscle pain hours after, if not on the next day.

[@Tiku-]

“NUH UH” -devs

[@Tone32616]

​@@eldermartins3220then you have never exercised hard enough.

[@Torvinoid]

8:45 i could absolutely see someone unrelated to the art department who happened to hear they hired a contractor saying "no its not [ai]" without the further knowledge that perhaps the artist they hired used ai. It's the kind of thing that just kinda happens. Someone who doesnt have all the info says one thing, then someone else who has more direct knowledge kinda has to go behind clean up. I do believe its AI but i would hardly call a writer commenting about the art department's business a bunding statement by the company.

[@xraze6906]

I see this kind of thing happen decently often. A pays B for background illustration but turns out B was just using ai

[@dirge7459]

This also tells us that the company did not run background checks on the contractors they hired, which is bad form. The retail company I used to work for even did background checks for unrelated folks they hired as temps, because that is straight up company policy. I don't know how on earth Indie Stone thought it was cool to just hire some random artist and not learn anything about what they do or how they do it.

[@superdog736]

Even of its not AI art (which I doubt), it looks out of place tonally compared to pre-existing art in the game

[@gogopendo1688]

Yeah it kind of looks like something off of wallpaper engine. Even if it isn't AI, it just looks cheap.

[@TemmieContingenC]

True, it lacks the kind of personalization that the older art had. It’s hard to word, but previous build art had a kind of unique touch to it that an AI can’t really replicate. You can tell where deliberate tone and emphasis is being made for the artwork used in B41. Not in this tho, even tho they’re at not terrible

[@bartuomyej]

@@TemmieContingenC or maybe it wasn't but you just retroactively look at it thinking it's awesome, when in reality people will be always suspicious of AI usage now. Even if it's competely unwarranted

[@TemmieContingenC]

@@bartuomyej well thats kinda what I mean too, I just don't care too much because the build is fine. It just leaves a bad prescient and erodes trust. I also hear that the art wasn't from TIS themselves, but from a third party they contracted (same fellas who made Bob on the car), so whilst it is still their fault for not telling them to stop the slop and make proper art, I still feel pretty good about PZ

[@TemmieContingenC]

@@bartuomyej Also the old art was pretty clearly not AI, but more so than that it had a human touch to it. AI is often generic and bland at best, and a horrible monstrosity of anatomy at worst. But now people will be very suspiscious for a good while

[@mmkanashiro]

i really love the old art style, the new realistic cartoon they were trying to use don't fit very well with the simple low poly style of the game

[@heathclark318]

Looks very Grand Theft Auto, it truly doesnt fit the game at all.

[@grimreefer9324]

​@@heathclark318 grand theft auto loading screen images look actually good tho, this all-around looks kinda... wwweird?

[@americanhuman1848]

@@grimreefer9324 yeah GTA screens are more stylized, there are little details like outlines, hardly looks ai generated

[@BadVoodo0]

I dont at all mind them going for realism at all, its just that the ai art looked too cartoony / fortnighty. Some of the in game engine newspaper art doesn't look that bad at all tho. also idc about ai art so long as it looks good, however most ai art at the time doesn't look good

[@loadingscreentipguy]

I like B42. But there is some room for improvements. Muscle strain needs to be nerfed.

[@Kastley]

It will, you're post is stale, they already addressed this

[@Charpyss]

I mean that's why they released it as unstable

[@WizardBrandon]

Yeah combat is miserable One zombie? Cool you can't do anything for 3 days now

[@AgustinRamirez-wl4mg]

@@WizardBrandon Well... far as i played i think that is somewhat realistic. Fought like a maniac around 20 zombies with just a crowbar that the characters has strained both his arms seems normal

[@WizardBrandon]

@@AgustinRamirez-wl4mg normal, but not fun, fitness needs to effect it

[@ecs300]

The guy who made it was the original person who made the bob on car image, and i do have to agree that it’s very likely retouched AI, sadly. Someone with that much experience probably didn’t have such a drastic stylistic change and they’ve been at it for so long that they really shouldn’t make these errors, such as on the microphone.

[@MonkeyShark]

Its ridiculous too. The old art style was so good, what type of troglodyte sacrifices their good original art style for an uninspired ai style

[@guynamedmaggi5520]

@@MonkeyShark This whole update is "realistic" so Im guessing he tried to retouch the stuff to look more realistic but instead it feels like something id see in a mobile game ad.

[@servebotfrank4082]

Yeah Artists styles don't change like that even in 13 years unless you're comparing someone starting from nothing to year 13. Even artists with work in the decades don't change that drastically that fast. Check out say, Araki, the guy that made Jojos Bizarre Adventure. He had a pretty noticeable shift at the start of part 1 to the end of part 2 because he stopped trying to ape Fist of the North Star but even despite his style shifting ever more over the next few years, it still looks like his work even 15 years later. It's not until the late 2010s that it started looking way different but it's still distinctly his work. Also even back in part 1 and part 2 he still had the exaggerated poses that his characters got into, so traits of his later style were still present.

[@jeshirekitenkatt1212]

@@servebotfrank4082 i mean, this is kind of just false? i've followed quite a few artists online over the years and draw myself and, yea, art styles can change drastically even within a matter of months - a matter of weeks, even, if you're actively experimenting with it. that's not to say this isn't ai or that ai art isn't bad, just that "their style changed" is a really, *really* bad way to sus out ai art and traced art alike without other evidence backing it up. hell, there are artists out there who's style changes *between individual drawings* hahaha

[@uorimoon]

@@servebotfrank4082 it depends on what direction the artist wants to go. 13 years and yes someone can go from painterly to hyper realistic. 13 years is a long time, and most artists can make that change within a year or two with heavy study/practice. Not every artist wants to change their style/methods tho, so some can stay consistent over decades. Its the end goal of what they want.

[@ducdao9291]

Am I the only one that craves the door mechanic where you open the door slightly to check for zomboids in one of the Thurzoid a few months back?

[@nickzh5]

same here 💀💀

[@HaleTheFreeVoice]

Yeah we need that for sure

[@hamsters7760]

I have a friend who likes to knock with a shove. I like to open from a 45-degree angle off to one side then slice the pie. Both are fairly safe tells.

[@HURRIC4NEyt]

That would be awesome and I’d also like a feature to hide under beds and such like the mod

[@anancapcat4221]

How do you do that?

[@TheOwlGilga]

Update from the devs, they removed the AI art and are investigating, they are also in disbelief themselves as this is the long term original artist so they trusted them.

[@kilex3471]

its not ai art

[@Lornext]

True, it is AI trash

[@CaptainArthanos]

@@kilex3471yes it is, genuinely stop being naive

[@whiskeyTX]

@@kilex3471yes it is lol it’s so obvious too

[@kilex3471]

@@CaptainArthanos prove it

[@durn863]

If its not AI its AI assisted. Apparently the devs took to reddit and claimed they didnt know, which I dont doubt. Im a concept artist myself and it infuriates me to no end to see more and more this becoming the norm.

[@kqar1]

I love it! That's why AI was created in the first place, wish ppl got better at using it rather than shuning it.

[@BigOlRub]

​@@kqar1true. Whiners everywhere. Just get gud maybe?

[@ibelieveinaliens4]

@@kqar1Wish ppl truly cared about the effort art takes. I wish people could see the love and passion put into art and realize only humans can imagine that way.

[@mrcheese5383]

@@kqar1ai art inherently will lack uniqueness that naturally occurs when you do it entirely by your self. I say this as someone who codes AI and is a very solid artist

[@TheToastieCakes]

@@kqar1 AI art deserves the public shunning it gets. Sure there's all the ethical reasons, but the most important is that it looks like shit.

[@Darth001033]

I've had this game since 2014 man, it's really crazy how far it's came and I want this company to succeed further and push more good ideas. I hope their end goals come to fruitions because the ideas are genuinely amazing and it could make this further an amazing game. Build 42 took a bit longer than I hope to come out, but in time it really polishes up.

[@TemmieContingenC]

Same here. Played the new build and god the world is so much more beautiful and fleshed out, down to little details like the newspapers and flyers and personalized rooftop furnishing and what not. I so badly want to see the now decade and beyond development of this game reach its final goals.

[@walternelson2687]

I pirated it waaaaay back in the day when it still had NPCs and 2D player models. Bought it very recently shortly before B42 dropped and I couldn't be happier with the changes from B41 because it's staying true to the "Realistic Simulation" aspect. Basically the only thing it's really missing at this point are the aforementioned NPCs.

[@ryman1933]

The games been out for 13 years, is still less than half complete, gets one half baked update every 3-4 years, the devs are lazy and just let the steam workshop adds content to the game since the devs wont. Honestly without the workshop nobody would talk about or play PZ anymore since the games content and updates are basically nonexistent. It's sad but I truly believe the devs have zero goals or consistent work schedules, what are they actually doing in these 3-4 year gaps between updates? Just sitting on a beach somewhere enjoying vacation or something. It should not take 4 years per update just to add one main new feature at a time. At this rate the game will actually take 30+ years to be considered "finished" they really need to buckle down at some point and actually work on the game consistently. They've seemingly chose the route of doing the bare minimum, raking in cash from steam sales while the community keeps the game alive and makes mod content to keep the game entertaining. Modders actually do more for the game in a month than the devs do in years. I truly believe the steam workshop ruined their work ethic. Not normal or encourageable for a game to be in early access for 13 years and be maybe 25% complete at best.

[@Darth001033]

@@ryman1933 All I can really say is, I agree with a lot of what you said, but it doesn't really add much substance echoing what the average person says negatively about the game. Yeah it feels like they're taking their time, but I don't develop games; shit is more complicated than we assume. I respect your reply, but honestly just was a lot of bitching and nothing that could help them understand truly why people feel this way about their game.

[@ryman1933]

​@@Darth001033 I disagree, I think its pretty constructive. Negative, no doubt, but constructive. If they do what I said, like get a consistent work schedule, set actual goals, and finish the many half complete features already in the game, the game would at least be progressing consistently. They should set a goal, and work to it, release said content when its finished, set a new goal, finish the content, release. Rinse and repeat. Consistent small updates would be better long term than the almost nonexistent updates we get. They just more or less retreat into the shadows for years at a time, they give community updates but its always just talking about some feature thats years away from actually being added to the game. They rarely show or explain what they are actually working on at any given time, or if they're making progress on anything, and it makes you wonder if they are doing anything at all. Another major problem with the PZ community is that they have a toxic positivity problem, the reddit and discord for PZ are basically an echo chamber glazing the devs. Any comments that aren't purely positive are swiftly and harshly punished, usually banned. The devs have frequent mental breakdowns online over the slightest criticism. I think the sad truth of PZ is that the devs have become lazy and content with their laid back work style, the community keeps itself entertained and alive with mod content, the devs have no reason to do work or put out updates. I would love to see what an average workday looks like for the PZ devs, because I feel like they have basically no goals or deadlines and just kinda code a few lines and call it a day. There is probably nobody at the company setting goals for the employees, and so work on the game has basically slowed to a crawl. If a PZ dev makes zero progress on his work for a year, it wouldn't even matter, because he knows he still has another 3 years to get the work done before another update will be pushed out. So why would a dev feel incentivized to do work, and get things done, when he knows he has literal years to do it and the community is content to just use mods to stay entertained? When you or I go to work, we generally have a goal or obvious work we need to get done because our job probably depends on it. The devs have basically zero risk for not doing a lot of work, in fact they seem to have leaned into this laid back slow paced work style. It's just crazy to think I have had this game since I was 10 and I am now 24. It will not be even half finished by time I am in my 30s, and thats a bad business model for a video game to have.

[@The_US_Doctor]

for me the issue isn't if it was TIS or the contracted artist who, the issue is that the responsibility for vetting ANY content put into the game falls EXCLUSIVELY to TIS and any content they release, regardless of if it's first, second or third party created content, should be held to the standards of the final product the team is wanting to either uphold, or create. if they let this through, what else could have been missed? what else could have been done with AI or other non human methods? thats what im personally concerned about. besides that, I think build 42 was kinda a flop, I mean for the most part the entire game just feel worse to play than B41 as what is now rare used to be the exremely rare setting, meaning there's just less of everything, which imo, makes the whole experience worse. it certainly is a lot less immersive if nothing else, I mean when every fridge is as empty as a college dorm room's, it's just a little jarring. Muscle strain aside, the zombies just feel _tougher_ for lack of a better way to put it. The undead now feel like they take 2-3 more hits than they previously did and that's just not great when weapons are already so rare (granted I will admit, this last one might just be me, but I will still mention it incase others feel the same as me) On firearms specifically, it feels like there was a complete erasure of residential gun spawns. Where previously I could find some guns (typically a shotgun and some shells) in residential homes, now I have to search like 10 homes for a handgun and maybe the basement set piece with the ammo lockers. Which is increadibly unfaithful to the setting of KENTUCKY, had this been set in London or Ottowa, I would be less shocked and annoyed. but the fact that it's specifically Kentucky, means that either the indie stones don't know how important gun culture is to the America or they just don't give a damn. especially since guns are painful enough to use (and im not talking about the reworked aiming), since they make insane amounts of noise and use a limited resource (ammo). and it's not like this is a sandboxable issue either, its not as simple as turning up the gun spawns. if a loot table just doesn't have the item in it, the loot setting could allow you to set it to 100x time the look and there would still be no guns, since it's just impossible for it to spawn there. Overall, im just disappointed in the Indie stones, as the bulk of the content they released (regardless of the amount of time they actually put in) feels half baked, unthought out, and lazy. I'm saying this being *insanely* generous with this being an unstable build too just to be clear. I'm not just saying this, like I was expecting the unstable release to be perfect at launch, that is verifibaly insane. I'm saying this with the understanding that nothing is set in stone, but that does not recuse them from harsh criticism, especially in this situation where I have very few things to say in B42's defense.

[@Justa_Guy_YT]

Well, then again, it’s also an Unstable release and not a full release, and the community did pressure the shit out of The Indie Stone to release the new build. There is a lot of time for improvement before the full release.

[@telumbric1292]

7:27 their career didn't get torched, the artist is anonymous

[@ImperialVideo]

Give the internet long enough, their home address will be blasted on the internet.

[@pocketinfinity6733]

if their names were shown then the torching would happen

[@D3K43]

Okay well the artist is defintely receiving flak from TIS, who were their paying clients.

[@banned-user]

It is the same artist who made the artwork of Bob standing on the car

[@telumbric1292]

@@banned-user yes, and they're anonymous

[@TheBlarggle]

Mando's moodle mod is generated using AI. It's even on screen as you promote his mod. At 2:35, on screen "Hello everyone, I understand why some people dislike certain icons made with AI. However, please keep in mind that I was the first to upload this mod to ensure it was available as soon as it was released." As if "It _needed_ to be done fast, so it's okay to be unethical about it." was a valid excuse. If you're anti-AI, then you shouldn't use Mando's mod.

[@Dangermad]

This mod has had any AI removed btw, still applies to this video, but the mod is pretty good now

[@TheBlarggle]

@@Dangermad If you care about ethics you still shouldn't use the mod. Stealing from a bunch of people "until you have time to make it correctly" is still unethical.

[@americanhuman1848]

Mando got a few of us to make real pixel art moodles, the AI was placeholder until they were done

[@TheBlarggle]

@@americanhuman1848 Stealing from a bunch of people "until you have time to make it correctly" is still unethical.

[@americanhuman1848]

@TheBlarggle the "time to make it correctly" was about a day or two, so the presence of ai work was basically irrelevant. not to mention, there is no monetary gain from modding this game, which invalidates any ethics issues with theft in the first place

[@giant0mantis]

There's a difference between human mistakes and AI mistakes. If nothing at all else, the microphone slits are 100% an AI error. A human would be intentionally lining them up with each other around the microphone, there wouldn't be a way to mess it up.

[@ThatMattaTatta]

All the errors labeled in that annotated image are not uniquely AI errors, but also human errors. It might be AI assisted or wholly produced for all I know, but the errors are not enough on their own to prove its AI and not human artist making mistakes due to a whole host of factors. Depending on the processes involved, a human can accidentally draw simple things wrong. The slits can be misnumbered because the artist simply wasn't thinking about what the object was when initially drawing it, and after multiple hours of the error being there, it becomes an invisible fault. Same goes for the handle on the radio. The radio body is curved to respect the fish-eye perspective, but the handle was painted completely straight. This can very easily happen if the artist painted the handle some time after the radio itself, and did it quickly from muscle memory, or without reminding themselves of the perspective being used. This can again get overlooked because the artist just becomes used to seeing it that way. I'm not convinced on the AI argument, but I do agree that the style isn't "it". The older artwork is much more thicker with its strokes, simulating an oil painting done with a larger brush and keeping the fine details a bit more vague. The newer illustrations shown in the video have a hyper-realistic yet waxy appearance to them, which is a complete departure from the older art style at best. And according to my tastes I find it just plain hideous to look at and wouldn't like it even I saw it hung on the wall of a museum.

[@D2_Papaya]

you'd be surprised, people can often add a extra finger or tooth on something if they're in the zone. ive done it myself a few times.

[@giant0mantis]

@@D2_Papaya That's because you're not lining them up with the exact same thing you already made a millimeter away. I also doubt you'd see that many mistakes and still send it on to an employer, none of these mistakes were on their own.

[@ThatMattaTatta]

@@giant0mantis GTA4 famously has a loading screen image of a woman with five fingers and a thumb in its full release. GTA4 predates AI generation by nearly 15 years. Point being, stupid mistakes that seem blatant and obvious to someone else can be completely missed by the creator's own eyes (and many others), because the artist wasn't really thinking or focusing on the very thing they're drawing when they did that part. They could be thinking about the next part of the drawing they're going to work on, or fixating on making the line they're drawing look really good without ever checking if its supposed to be there in the first place. It happens, and because it happens, it means a mistake like this cannot be taken as proof alone that the image was created by an LLM pretending to be human. LLMs generating images often screw up in similar ways because their programming is very similar to a human being distracted and working in 'autopilot'. It isn't thinking about the relationship between 'this' set of lines and 'that' set of lines, just that 'lines go here and here'

[@giant0mantis]

@@ThatMattaTatta So the first two paragraphs I already addressed and the third agrees with me, good job

[@docholliday773]

Its not that the artwork and moodles suck, they just look like they are out of place, the pixelated and cartoonish art looked way better. But ngl the artwork looks AI as hell. The update didn’t met my expectations, not even close. We are talking 3 years here and this is what they make, that is not okay.

[@water5414]

the update is wayy more then what u see, most of it they working on changing entire game systems to support future shiz like npcs n crafting etc etc. its a unstable build after all so things they think not done yet not gonna be in it till later. js remember these is indie devs not rockstar games

[@docholliday773]

@@water5414 Modders could have done this in a month, 3 years is way too long.

[@water5414]

@@docholliday773 modders work w what they got in the system already tho they not adding to it. its two different things renovating the house and building/changing the foundation if that make sense

[@laprueba6521]

​@@docholliday773u should try making a game urself

[@theminerboy5694]

You do realize that there is an entirely new entity type in the game now (animals), as well as a new crafting system involving workstations, right? Not to mention that the game just runs better zoomed out now. And the lighting system was completely reworked. And the map is now basically infinite due to procedural wilderness, with foraging being completely reworked (behind the scenes) so that it doesn't have to be manually defined and the entire map is forageable. Yeah some of the new art sucks, but that wasn't the update's focus.

[@hunterh1175]

The biggest problem with AI art in games is that it's used to avoid hiring artists. In this case they hired an artist and the artist may have used AI... TIS is the one that got scammed, not us.

[@GurkdaBoy]

lol is it that artists losing a job is such a huge deal when automation has been killing blue collar jobs for years and years? Miss me with this bougie cryfest.

[@keatonwastaken]

Nobody got scammed really.

[@-Negative-3-]

and they might've gotten off scot free if they had a normal response instead of trying to stop the community from talking about it. Fastest way to get a community to hate you is to try to silence them

[@-Negative-3-]

@@keatonwastaken they payed someone a large amount of money to spend time developing art with their skills and got something anyone in the indie stone could've done for free in 15 minutes with an ai website and some photoshop

[@keatonwastaken]

@@-Negative-3- Still no proof it's AI, so moot point, why should they let randoms online slander their artist? The right thing to do is answer the question truthfully and then silence people who whine still.

[@tylerkarnes2947]

zomboid is a great game that is bogged down by a dev team that is fuckin abysmal when it comes to PR.

[@Life_Universe_Everything]

Need a PR representative

[@mediumsurmoon6283]

It’s just Lemmy fuckin TIS right up in the ass whenever any criticism is brought onto them. Been over a decade now and he’s still doing the exact same thing everytime 😂😂 pretty hilarious ngl. _Also the same guy that told a fan to ‘off themselves’ on a steam forum discussion_

[@sei_asagiri]

I was banned from their discord because a troll made a fake account of me saying slurs on a separate private discord server. A fake video of text messages from a fake account is all it took for me to get banned. It took 2 months of back and forth with discord moderators who were trying to drag the situation out as long as possible. Eventually one of the heads of staff basically said "i cant do anything about it." Basically i told them they are all idiots and have fun working for a failing game studio that can't even hire decent staff. Indie stone reputation is going quickly down the toilet.

[@rodrigobogado8756]

​@@sei_asagiriwhy would they would even ban you about something you said in a different Discord server? Wtf? It has the same moderators or something?

[@ssjbargainsale]

@@rodrigobogado8756 Some servers ban you if you talk shit about the server or mods anywhere else

[@itacticlesnowman726]

7:12 actually I seen that post on Reddit and one of the comments pointed out that the pen on the desk morphed into the wire.

[@penderrin1637]

The pen is between two cords, it's not morphing into the wire

[@fleshmagi]

what's funny is the art is an almost 1 for 1 for the last of us.

[@jaimevalencia6271]

@@fleshmagihow? There’s no F.A.G.S in this game

[@BillyBob_1177]

Another thing is that the radio broadcast that image is based off she says she hasn't been bit or scratched but she still feels sick. In the artwork it shows her all beat up and bandaged.

[@mistersinister2043]

It isn't. Stop lying.

[@rorty1540]

Honestly i feel like all the gameplay concepts are great. Like muscle strain isnt a bad idea but its current implementation is not the greatest. Similar thing for the new aiming system. Its great it just needs to be tuned down a bit. Those 2 combined just make the game way to unforgiving and not in a fun way because its not something you can really control very easily. You can make the game more unforgiving, just give me a way to combat that unforgiving nature with player skill or knowledge. Otherwise it wont feel rewarding and is just gonna feel like your spitting in my face.

[@samuelsilva8364]

Mando really opened the game and said "no way" for the moodles dude 😂

[@jonclark1405]

7:57 "And if [AI was used] it's not really our fault, since we didn't use it to replace the artist." But it is their fault for not properly checking the art before using it in the build. They have a responsibility to check these things closely before giving them the greenlight to be used, even if it isn't AI. That comment really left a sour taste in my mouth, which was only worsened by the pinned comment.

[@rodrigobogado8756]

Yeah, by that logic they could put a weird porn of distasteful image and claim that "it's not their fault" when they are the ones don't checking up the work they contract. Ffs what's up with this company?

[@briannaherrington949]

I'm going to wait til the official stable release after all the dust has settled down

[@F2PMegaGod]

Something that has been bothering me, and ive even heard youtubers and streamers say it, is people going "weve been waiting for so long just enjoy it and stop complaining". So imagine someone goes to remodel your house, they do an overall good job but 2 or 3 critical mistakes, and they take 3 years to do it. Do these people just go "oh doesnt matter i waited alot longer than it shouldve lets just enjoy it" or does that make it even worse? Also why does criticizing something mean someone isnt still enjoying the game? Why are people so mad about others having a negative opinion about something?

[@bolt9407]

Ultimately, people are immature and take criticism of things they like as criticism on themselves.

[@Bhamloud47]

That’s not the same. At all lol. I like to make fun of indie stone, but they owe us nothing. When I bought it a few months back, I was sold a product in early access for 11 years (lol) and that was basically it. A little reading showed this is a mediocre company at best. They charged nothing for update 42. Besides that, the worst things can be turned off. Don’t like muscle strain? Or not getting so from disassembly? Change it. The gun changes are great. Guns in pz were completely awful. If you can fire a gun you can probably hit something five feet away. Much much better now. I like it better than I thought I would.

[@matiks4974]

I think overall most people are making valid arguments. And I too don’t like AI art. Personally im annoyed because I want to read posts about something other than the fucking AI art shit. Its like 75% of the subreddits posts atm. And same on KZbin lmao

[@Baulers]

Shit take lol, this isn’t your house, or your game.

[@Bhamloud47]

Yeah that’s the most surprising part. I could not care less about the art lol and some people are so mad over it.

[@neoslayerpw8230]

The idea of muscle strain happening the day after sounds kind of awesome, makes you think about ehat you're going to do the next day

[@nickkiller-0710]

Yeah, it would reward you for planning things out (which seems to be a really cool direction they're going for) while not making combat such a hassle. B42 has good features but then there's some stuff that just feels like they implemented an idea without a clear design in mind, like fighting 5 zombies and being completely exhausted is such a non conducive way to design a game.

[@peamut547]

That isn’t what muscle strain is though. This feature is meant to emulate muscle failure, which happens when you train/do something too hard/too long.

[@tritan20]

As someone who deals with A.I every single day, trying to corral parents, friends, and even investors into understanding what A.I is -those images are A.I that were touched up. Why would this matter? It matters because the companies/videos that traditionally use A.I artwork signal that they are low-effort cashgrabs. Can't go the extra mile and make a YT thumbnail? Let A.I do it to signal your lack of care! Want a game to have flashy art but don't want to pay an artist? Let A.I show you're bankrupt and no effort or care was placed to do it right. Think of the Willy Wonka Chocolate factory attraction in the UK. It's a grifter's tool to prey on the old and dimly aware. I think this is known by the Indiestone due to how Lemmy Responded. He made multiple attempts to suggest they PAID an artist to diffuse the face-value moral qualms of using A.I. (btw You can immediately tell from the glossy oily texture the images seem to have, the cartoonist exaggerated soy-expressions, artifacts that don't seem to make sense for a human to mess up, like the misaligned holes, molars in the front of one's mouth rather than the back, extreme art shift.)

[@EighmyLupin]

If AI was used then the artist lied to them and cheated them

[@crazagres1839]

@@EighmyLupin More then likely there was just no artist to begin with. They just used A.I., lied about it.

[@ananimeprofilepicture.9876]

@@crazagres1839I was hoping lemmy would take responsibility for once but… yeah with how he acted I can’t help but suspect that. I didn’t want to at first and trusted it was an honest mistake but dude when apologizing for an honest mistake you don’t go “well it wasn’t really my fault because it looked good anyway”

[@BigOlRub]

You write like an actual soyboy redditor. Being anti-AI won't change the fact that you're a broke ass wanna be artist.

[@gageroberts5513]

Thank you so much for this. I saw the loading screen and instantly felt it was suspicious. The glossy textures you reffered to are how I always identify AI art. Skin is always super moist looking with AI.

[@zockertomate8718]

i realy dont like when games use ai

[@snowdevil002]

womp womp

[@laxattack032]

Change tampon

[@CamronRoberts-h6b]

@@snowdevil002ratio

[@servebotfrank4082]

I would probably rephrase this because of how easy it is to pick apart. For the record I also dislike generative AI art but AI as a whole is a very broad field with lots of useful applications.

[@Pliskin88]

​@@snowdevil002based

[@blackrazor9011]

4:58 is where my problem is with the guns right now, when I zombie is in a proned position you can’t shoot them. Your character turns away or doesn’t even notice that the zombie is there.

[@PincheYoutube-x2k]

Remember its an unstable build

[@RainierKenneth]

I don’t really understand the nerfs to some traits. It’s not really a competitive game, not an action RPG game.

[@GalaticJackalope]

after watching the video a while ago, It dawned on me why the ( almost 100%)AI art from 7:13 looked familiar, It is almost 1:1 of ellie from the last of us 2 ( 2 specifically) There are small detail differences But if this was retouched ai art, " Female zombie survival character talking into a radio" As one of the most well know female zombie apocalypse characters, It would most likely use ellie as reference a lot. Also another thing I noticed on that same image, The wire melts into the pen on the desk as well as melting into the hair, So this is 100% AI Art in my opinion.

[@GalaticJackalope]

And checking the other images, The guy holding the camera, Is missing 1 finger, and 2 fingers merge into each other. The other one with the guy in the car, The zombie grabbing the womans leg is much thicker than any other hand and blurs a lot into her pant leg. I'm sure other people will more in-depth find issues with the ai art but those are pretty clear cut issues what prove they are ai. Again to me and 90% of other people this art is retouched ai. it is really sad, cause there was no reason for this guy to even do this because they got art form thsi guy before, So he knows how to draw that art style The only reason he would do this would be laziness.

[@hentielover]

A big issue with AI art is not just the quality and cutting corners (although that is definitely a part of it), but also the ethical aspect of it. It has been known for a long time that AI models essentially steal other artists work in order to build up a database that generates the "Art". This doesn't sit right with many people, and these people will reject AI art regardless of what the quality of the end product is, if it has AI in it, it's unacceptable. To make a comparison: It's like buying products from third world countries that treats its labourers extremely badly. Obviously the quality will suffer due to the workers being underpaid/mistreated, but the main problem people have with the product are the ethical aspects, so even high quality products will be rejected.

[@shooflies]

That's cool but I dont think the point of the ai art segment was if ai art is bad its we don't actually know if the art was ai generated people just started saying that because it's the internet and no one's going to stop Frank and Karen from attempting to upload their every idle moronic thought to the rest of the world and humanity as a collective having a rather poor track record for things like reason or logic when it comes to mob mentalities will explode at any given prompt because social media has removed any sense of self control from people.

[@laxattack032]

Dang bro. You really care about a complete non issue. But cry more i guess

[@Auregineww]

For game terms it's the same as making a game with flip asset that the dev can get free and then calling it's a full original game

[@CubeX3]

Gamers don't care where AI art came from. They care about it looking good or not.

[@TheTeddyGuy28]

Me using AI to make artwork of my 5e character for my friends campaign does not take a penny from the artists whose stuff was in those datasets. You people are goofy lol.

[@DankSwegSkuxxXhayel]

the muscle strain isn't even that bad of a mechanic in theory it's just such a drastic change that people are going to be upset regardless, people don't want to admit it but even playing on "survival" in B41 was very easy as you could essentially steamroll your way through the early game as long as you didn't try to fight a whole horde

[@calumjjarvis]

Yeah I think the devs could benifit from doing more incremental updates to add big mechanics like this. then people won't moan as much. It worked for Facebook in the early years. They'd update the page and everyone would be annoyed about it, ow they just do tiny updates and chages over time and no one notices much anymore.

[@charlestaylor8344]

AI art is a big red line for me. Pay a damn artist, make sure said artist isn't cutting corners by using said AI art. Hire real people doing real work.

[@Kastley]

Nah, what makes it AI

[@joshuagraham9770]

They did pay a damn artist we just don't know if they used ai or not

[@ecs300]

The person who made the art was the original person who made the guy on the car art, which is surprising

[@railguy2518]

Why though? AI art just makes development easier for an indie studio...

[@kye4216]

Why should someone be forced to pay more for something if AI can do something of equal quality for much cheaper?

[@SioxGreyWolf]

I really thing that muscle strain should be strength and or fitness, which is multiplied to the weapon skill. So knowing how to use a weapon has an impact, but getting strength and fitness up seriously aids in it.

[@Cifer77]

I just wanna know why I can no longer clean dirty bandages in a sink, or boil water for steralizing

[@HURRIC4NEyt]

Can’t either, I think they might’ve removed it

[@higueraft571]

Current known issue, not Intended.

[@ArnoBreakChecker]

It really doesn’t help that the indie stone have never been known to take criticism well

[@1WindowBreaker]

The main issues I've had with the gun reworks is the inconstancy with accuracy even at high levels. I noticed that when using the M16 even and 10 aiming I was still missing a large portion of shots even while standing still and not spraying rounds. Another issue is with the jamming that guns like the pistols seem to have at low aiming/reloading which makes no sense as a gun that ejects spent casings itself with no input from the shooter should not be jamming what seemed like every 4 shots. Jamming with shotguns at low aiming or reloading does make sense as those kind of guns require the shooter to manually pump the gun in order to expel the spent shell and rack a new one. I still somehow miss and when I try to shoot into a horde, somehow a lot of my shots miss every single zombie even after I grouped close to 100 into a ball and fired into it, many of the shots missed which personally does not make any sense as I think that even if someone has never used a gun in their life, if a horde of zombies grouped close together was decently close you should be able to hit a zombie somewhere in the horde. TLDR: Inconsistency with the accuracy when firing into a horde and Semi-automatic and fully automatic guns jamming often on low levels despite having full condition. Overall I like the changes to the gun system but I do think it needs some work.

[@nickkiller-0710]

I'm loving the new aiming system, but it really irks me how sometimes the game just completely shits itself when you try to shoot at a zombie that's near you or at an awkward angle. I think the game tries to draw a straight line from your character to where you're aiming but sometimes it visually doesn't line up, like your crosshair is at the zombie but the characters aren't actually aligned, so your character just shoots at the air. It's kinda awkward to explain but if you try to shoot a downed zombie it becomes apparent rather quickly.

[@lisztair]

Dude that loading screen is clearly AI, I put my life savings on it

[@infinitehexington]

rip life savings

[@Volsraphel]

@@infinitehexington The one of the guy driving away in the car bro... It's blatant. I'd understand not noticing if its the first piece of art you've ever looked at for more than 5 seconds though...

[@Gherkins]

@@Volsraphelit’s 3 am, go to bed.

[@Volsraphel]

@@Gherkins Classic US defaultism lol Did my comment annoy you in some way?

[@NightOfTheRavens]

​@@Gherkins Imagine thinking your timezone is the only one that exists.

[@loadingscreentipguy]

Great job on the video. It was informative and wasn’t very biased.

[@nexusnero]

In the contrary I actually enjoyed the new muscle mechanics... Made me think twice before engaging... And now I don't feel I can just go and slash all the zombie's... I have to plan strategies first

[@AdmiralKarelia]

That's kinda what I thought. Everyone who says guns are bad in this game can only say that because melee was so cracked. It needed a tradeoff like muscle soreness to balance it against guns.

[@nexusnero]

@@AdmiralKarelia that is a good point, and expanding further on this strategy the game is taking, what I guess would also be cool is; Now that the nights are dark and darker, and we have to make use of flashlights, what discourage players from looting at night, maybe the zombie's should be less active at night to encourage night looting runs

[@AdmiralKarelia]

@@nexusnero as I understand, the new darkness mechanics make stealth easier at night. That should, in theory, make night looting possible

[@nexusnero]

@@AdmiralKarelia that is even better

[@somebodyiguess-752]

The tittle screen looked amazing, I didn't get to see the loading screens ingame but they did look uncanny and had weird details. Aside that, the update is amazing.

[@Semper_]

Me too, I hope they bring that new title screen art back. The new loading screens though.. that can stay deleted lol. Even if they ain't ai, they're still ugly.

[@Semper_]

This is an amazing update though, I don't get why people ain't realizing it's an unstable beta? All the new features they don't like are going to be balanced and refined. There's no reason to be enraged like this

[@looneylex_]

Even if it’s not ai (which I think the microphone one at least is, haven’t looked closely at the others)I think it’s incredibly out of touch for the indie stone to look at this art which is very similar in style to the style AI slop we all know and hate and go “Yeah no this is cool.” Especially with such a terminally online community like the Zomboid community, how did they think this would be chill? Again, even if it’s not AI, just the fact that rational people think it could be is telling on the quality. Rant over, peace and love new build is shaping up to be hella fun!

[@GuyWhoSoundsTwelve]

Personally, I'm in love with most of the update, but I do have *some* grievances, which I'll ramble about in a minute. I'll be staying with b41 until multiplayer is reintroduced, but I *am* very grateful we finally got to get in on the unstable, because now that we're in on it, there's no more agonizing silence (which I think was the main issue most players had.) After all, now we're finally involved and on the same page as the developers, so hopefully the wall between us is broken for now. (Hopefully.) I'll try to be brief in my comment because I'm a big yapper, but here's a quick overview of my opinions: I love EVERYTHING except: The moodles. The new gun aiming system. I'll only ramble about the guns, because the moodle stuff is obvious. Although the new gun aiming system with crosshairs and everything is more realistic, it's a major stylistical change from what we once knew, and it also poses an *accessibility issue* that wasn't there before. Before, your character was basically the one who decided which enemy to shoot. You chose the direction, and your character chose the enemy. Although not having complete control over your gun could be frustrating, gun combat was simple and didn't require much thought or fine motor. But the new system does. This isn't easy for everyone - people have nerve/brain damage, hand/arm injuries, conditions like Parkinson's, etc, that make fine, precise, or slower movements, difficult or near impossible. If you've ever tried to play with a broken arm, you'll know the gist of it, lol PZ has generally been pretty accessible in the past, and I notice it has a lot more elderly/senior players than a lot of other games, and I think those two stats are connected. The old system was simple and stress-free and definitely did my shit arm a favour, and I know a chunk of people will relate. You never know when you might just lose mobility in a limb, and it's not that uncommon, so I just really hope they (or someone) plan to add an accessibility feature, or an option, or anything, to be able to restore the aiming mechanic to roughly how it was before, 'cause otherwise, hunting is gonna be rough.

[@Ryuko-T72]

I didn't get to play 42 yet, but one thing ill miss is the aiming green outline for guns. I hope there will be a mod to bring it back.

[@TalesOfWar]

I prefer the old Moodle style, but the quality of the new ones. It helps scale better with higher display resolutions.

[@spookyboi4784]

I like the shooting changes. Nice to be able to use pistols earlier on. As for the art. I liked the new splash screen. The others were a bit hit or miss for me. Though I'll admit the style did throw me off. With the others.

[@JoeDon2]

1:03 no moaning? 😢

[@glucosefather494]

😫😫😫

[@JackdotC]

Having used AI to make images in the past (I am learning to draw but I just needed some images) Those images are either 100% AI, or have the exact same art style as AI art, which might actually be even sadder. The artsit ripped them off big time, and they were asleep at the wheel if they didn't see it. I can spot the AI aesthetic within 1 second of looking at the image for the first time, if that got through the whole dev team with no one raising a complaint TIS has something terrible happening in the company. Either people are not paying attention, which I don't think is the case personally, or there is some toxic management that no one can say no to, which I think is much more likely. That is the only way that clearly AI art made it through the cracks, and it has me kinda worried for the devs

[@HURRIC4NEyt]

Crying over artwork for the game possibly being AI instead of trying to find small bugs the devs can fix is the sad thing here

[@JackdotC]

@HURRIC4NEyt Dev can fix this by not putting the AI art in the game to begin with. Don't be such a coward that you take whatever slop corporate overlords shovel down your jaw. Develop some taste. The art is both unfitting for the games previous artstyle, bad, and AI generated. I'm allowed to voice my issues with this, isn't that what a beta is for? Or am I only allowed talk about how poorly muscle strain was implemented, or about how god awful the new moodles look? Oh and btw, as I already said in my comment, there is no possibly about it. That "art" in the loading screens is 100% AI generated. They just gave it a touch up afterwards. If a studio uses AI images it means they have no commitment to quality. If TIS is using AI art, something bad is coming for the game

[@slyseal2091]

@@JackdotC they remade the entire lighting system, improved framerates twofold, added procedural wilderness, increased the responsiveness of every aspect of the animation system and added more depth to most mechanics. Putting their commitment to quality on the spot really isn't an argument in your favor when it harkens back to the earliest sentiments concerning AI, which is that the least relevant parts of the sum will be automated and everything that matters is hand crafted. Them going back to the old art means one thing only: they could have, and would have just gone without it. In the alternate universe where generative AI wasn't invented, their artist still wouldn't have been paid.

[@higueraft571]

@HURRIC4NEyt Steering the game's Art Direction in the right path is as important as reporting bugs (even if 10 billion others have said the same, about both).

[@ZettXXII]

7:04 how do you draw a microphone like this? it's asymmetric

[@shooflies]

Are you genuinely asking how it's possible to draw asymmetrical things? How do you normally draw hands? Look, i want yall to genuinely understand you aren't detectives, you aren't even particularly clever. Ai art is bad but desperately clawing through images so you can play up some moral outrage with no actual confirmation or investigation and then just proclaiming you've solved the mystery is about the most on par idiot thing you can do on the internet and it has consequences you don't fuckin pay. If you're wrong, you just ruined some dudes' entire reputation as an artist for some attention online. That's a bit fucked up.

[@penderrin1637]

Artists can and do make mistakes every so often, it could be AI but Imo it's much more likely just a mistake.

[@Senkushi]

​@@penderrin1637 then the artist committed to that mistake from the basic concept sketch, to the color blocking, to the basic shading and ALL the way through rendering and final inspection without noticing, all of which is much harder to believe than the artist pawning off AI slop as their own and the artist/developers lying about it to save face.

[@penderrin1637]

@@Senkushi yup. I think it's quite possible for someone to be on a rushed deadline (as we know from predz in his last video they were expecting b42 to be delayed), realize the mistake some part through the process, and say "I don't have time to fix it" and just send it. It could be AI, idk for sure, but considering the other two loading screens only real point of being AI is just the style, I think it's quite possible that those two were done first, then this one was made last minute.

[@Senkushi]

​@@penderrin1637speaking as an amateur artist, it's not, and you've clearly never created anything of detail in your life if you truly believe that. if the artist can draw with as much detail as is shown in those images they claim as their own then they'd easily notice such a blatant mistake. ANY artist worth half their salt will tell you this, and take the time to fix it regardless of feeling rushed by some arbitrary date that likely won't get met anyway (Mick Gordon for DOOM Eternal, for example) furthermore, the text on the radio unit above the dials in the radio picture is nonsensical, the coffee sign in that picture is clearly just lazily photoshopped over whatever was there originally as the perspective is WAY off and to top it off the style of the AI slop doesn't even match the artists' own style shown in the non-ai re-master of the OG menu screen.

[@m0d3l04]

60+ bullets just to kill 3 zombies...

[@bobjohnson1096]

I don't think they even tested combat. It is SOOOOO bad!

[@theminerboy5694]

It's better than it was in B41. Without firing skill you have to shoot at very close range.

[@KnownNiche1999]

People don't hate AI because it is "a betrayal". It just obviously look cheap, soapy and completely soulless. The game in general has a major identity crisis when it comes to the art direction. Different bits of the game have completely different art styles as of build 42. In B41 this wasn't pronounced at all by comparison. The game was sold with an art style of "pretending to be a game from the 90s", and both the new loading screen artstyle and especially new moodle designs do not fit that whatsoever.

[@tumble8323]

the 90’s game art style was even more noticeable prior to build 41

[@eda230bbs2]

On the topic of AI as im really passionate about it, The loading screens are 100% AI. Not that they are 100% made by AI, but that it was used. And I think it was used extensively. The people who drew the lines are probably people who noticed right away, as its easily recognizable by its color pallete. They took a deeper look into it and just found the mistakes which made them sure that it was AI and introduced them as evidence. You dont throw accussations like this because it looks different, but because everything looks exactly the same. You can think of every AI model as an individual artist, since its color pallete and style are somewhat consistent (and so are its mistakes). Honestly, its kind of sad the guy who made the iconic car art in 2011 is the same guy who made the AI loading screens. It doesnt feel like someone who used to work on PZ artwork made it. It feels like the same guy who did the COD BO6 made them and did the same sloppy job as on BO6. And i dont want every game to look like BO6. Using AI feels like a shortcut. It should not matter if you create a piece of art in 10 minutes or 10 hours as long as it was a work of love. If you let someone else or a machine do something for you, it is not longer you making it. I dont like it, since it feels really lazy. Art should be something you enjoy doing. Something you express yourself through. If you dont enjoy creating art, you should not make art in the first place.

[@MoeTheCentaur]

The problem with the new shooting (when i played and had veteran) i keep on missing with a double barrel shotgun with the crosshair right over the zombies which i find unrealistic bc i do shotgun shooting irl and hitting a larger target should be easy but in zomboid my character cant shoot to save his life

[@JtotheDoubleL]

This could have been solved easily if they just asked the artist for the concept drawings they assuredly made before settling on these final renditions. Any artist worth anything wont just draw one thing and not have at least a few drawings they decided not to use. If they refused or couldnt provide them then safe to say they were AI generated.

[@JtotheDoubleL]

@@Stephen64138 to me, their response is enough proof that it is AI. If it wasnt, they would have provided what I outlined to prove everyone wrong. Would have been an easy W.

[@feywinterfox9630]

I think the biggest problem with anything is people going off Reddit and other sites as an indicator if people really love or hate something. Every now and then you get that thing that the vast majority of people agree on. That said with stuff like build 42 the biggest problem is the tons of people that tend to like stuff *almost always never say anything till after the others have spent their time complaining about.* Why you might ask? Because the people that like it are too busy enjoying it, so much so that when they stop and look around they are kinda shocks that it *sounds like* so many people hate X or Y or Z....not like Q....everyone hates Q.......👀I got my eyes on you Q......

[@guynamedmaggi5520]

I am definitely wondering when people will start looking at Q

[@sacknutgaming2428]

Me after fatfingering q

[@jeshirekitenkatt1212]

that mofo Q has had it coming for a long time, someone's gotta do somethin about that guy

[@sacknutgaming2428]

@@jeshirekitenkatt1212 Q's tonight's biggest loser

[@kazman115]

I think the new moodles are really cute tbh, but that’s just me.

[@chromonose]

Old player are really hard to please tbh.

[@salemkhalifa9329]

@@chromonose the new moodles look like dogshit and i am no veteran

[@marshmellowguy586]

​@@chromonose yes old players want the game to be the best it can be and dont just accept changes that make the game worse

[@NightOfTheRavens]

​@@chromonose What even is an "old player"? If you're going to tell me that it's anyone who's been actively playing the game since build 41 then I will not be able to take anything you say further seriously.

[@dilligafzilla]

it's ok to have dogshit imbecile opinion

[@joshbignell8891]

They might claim they dont know if AI was used for those images but they look literally exactly the same as every other AI generate garbage that is used for youtube thumbnails

[@coaiemandushman1079]

when i used to play this game, it was more pixelated ,the butter knife was the best weapon in the game, NPCs were a thing and the game was you saving your wife. Good ol times.

[@tumble8323]

INFINITE JAWSTABS (until it breaks)

[@redfield7389]

I really wish controller/steam deck features worked on release. Can't really even use most new features now. Though it's pretty funny seeing the pld crafting system in limbo using it!

[@Dushmann_]

Did they fix the zombie spawning problem where buildings with no windows and closed doors will instantly spawn zombies when you open the door (lots of zombies spawning in bathrooms for example)?

[@TheMrPyatka]

Not sure about that but there is a mod for build 41. If they wont make this crucial change for stable build 42 Im sure modders will fix it before devs get their hands on it.

[@AuricomSystems]

I think what Muscle Strain needs is just adding another setting, specifically how much your stats and skills impact it. I started my B42 game as a schlubby burger flipper with low strength, so yeah, being ass at fighting makes total sense and is in fact exactly what I wanted. The dozen or so zombies I've fought total, so far, have been a tense business. But in six months when she's an experienced beefcake instead of a dumbass beef cook, she should be able to take on WAY more before she feels the strain. Or maybe different weapons should be different in this regard - they kind of are as a second-order thing because a weak weapon will take more swings to get the job done, but maybe an actual weapon should be significantly easier on the muscles than just using whatever you found in someone's garage?

[@lostree1981]

Feels like Zomboid has finally become big enough that Indie Stone is now more like Corporate Stone. Shit is being designed by committee

[@ryman1933]

They've been lazy since steam workshop came out and they struck it rich

[@eduardotrillaud696]

Let's adress the elephant in the room: WILL SANTA COME FOR US USERS OF AMD/MSI GRAPHIC CARDS, WITH A FIX FOR THE BLACK SCREEN? OR OUR B42 MENUS WILL STAY BLACK AS VIRTUAL COAL WE'RE GETTING FOR HAVING BEEN BAD DUDES?

[@ldalcinm]

yeah, my game doesnt even run

[@Lexyvil]

Knowing that Strength does have a factor in mitigating strain, does it affect how fast the strain disappears, or only how fast it accumulates? Or both?

[@TheDragonfly256]

Im using Stable diffusion to make myself 21:9 wallapers since there is lack of this format, and yeah this pic with a girl talking to a mic is absolutely AI.

[@apneal]

but... who cares? Like why the hell does anyone care about this? Considering all the work they've put in, considering they could have just kept the single uninteresting wallpaper... why is everyone fixated on something that has zero effect on the experience of the product? If anything, the fact people are so whiny about the wallpaper above all else is a good sign, since no matter what people are going to complain and if thats their worst complaint then great.

[@nosvibes9786]

Complainers will complain​@@apneal

[@stealthocamo2490]

@@apnealbecause it’s ruining real art

[@Auregineww]

@apneal it does it's the same logic as marketing ads, just imagine 3 same products a foundation for example. One use a stock photo you can get on Google, the other use graphics design, and the later you ask a professional photographer. The first product would look like a scam or a fake as you seen the image is often used as a meme. While the second seems to be a homemade local product not to expensive but good enough. While the third would look to be an expensive product that worth it's price. It's the same with the homescreen for game. As it is the first impression you should give to the player.

[@apneal]

@@stealthocamo2490 that's a damn boomer comment. If that's a tool a contracted artist used, that's absolutely fine. Are we not allowed to use Photoshop either because that's not real art? Can we not use paint because you didn't crush up your own flowers and paint a cave wall? Who the hell are you to say what is and isn't "real art"

[@SilvermileGK]

I've been playing this game since it first came out over a decade ago. A passion project a small handful of devs poured their hearts into in their free time, and leaving it eternally in Early Access for $20 or less because there's always more ideas to add. It could easily be a $60+ game with microtransactions by now. I've seen the outrage over every update. The anger of the community always comes from their love of the game. The thing I've always loved the most is that the devs realize that not everything they add is what we want. That's why the customization is so in-depth, why the modders can run free, and why every version that has been made is still available to play. You have always been allowed to choose how you die. Excellent video as always Predz :)

[@SloppyJam]

Have not tried B42 yet but I can’t wait to play

[@holfwaley3973]

The gun update doesn't work because now you can't see zombies inside buildings or behind walls. You NEED the outline to see under stuff! This was always the problem with the projectile mods.

[@seacreacherdiet]

People calling the Moodles AI is so frustrating as an artist / designer. They literally exhibit 0 features of AI art, AI is famously horrible at making emoji style images anyways, and they're clearly polished and thought out. Does that make the moodles good or palettable from an art style point of view? That's a different discussion, but it doesn't change the fact there is like, the smallest inkling of a chance it's AI.

[@TheDreargamer]

I think most of the AI art discussion is focused on the loading screens, mate

[@seacreacherdiet]

@TheDreargamer Most of it, but I've seen an absurd amount of comments on moodle mods and whatnot, as well as popular moodle mods themselves (at least on release) claiming that the moodles are AI.

[@GregorianMG]

Moodle doesn't look A.I to me, just out of place for PZ. It could work if it's on the other game.

[@higueraft571]

@@TheDreargamer Unfortunately, some idiots DO claim the Moodles are AI. They do look generic, flat, and bland in ways, and in others fail to convey info as well, but they ARE made by people...

[@seacreacherdiet]

@@GregorianMG Agreed, though tbh as a general design I'm not a fan of them, too oversaturated and "stock asset". That's personal though! ^^

[@kilowhisperer5057]

They don't seem to take criticism well which is a HUGE red flag.

[@stefanpogorzelski6677]

Bro, most ppl just complain about a fking loading screen, like ITS NOT EVEN THE GAME, who fking care about a loading screen...

[@kilowhisperer5057]

@stefanpogorzelski6677 slippery slope.

[@AdmiralKarelia]

@@stefanpogorzelski6677 THANK YOU. It's like, who has so little shit going on in their life that they're counting slits on a microphone in a game's artwork. JFC, pick your battles.

[@pira707]

@@AdmiralKarelia if they hadn't done that then you'd ask for them to prove that it's ai

[@AdmiralKarelia]

@@pira707 I wouldn't because, again, I don't care. This is such a small thing.

[@jakemilkbassist]

The devs have mismanaged this game to the point most people that were into are not satisfied with the glacial pace of progress, even within this they are putting effort into replacing moodles instead of focusing on features and expanding the game in a more meaningful way. Great concept that i hope someone else picks up and fleshes out in a more complete way than the current devs are.

[@AbsoluteLambda]

I will say for some clarity, I'm not taking any sides here, Certain "artists" recently in 2020-now have been using AI as kind of a shield, like they'll say they draw everything themselves and try to make it seem believable, this almost happened to my friend when commissioning someone for title screen art in their game; and what they'll do is use whatever is the most advanced form of AI at the moment, and kind of trick you into thinking that they made it, much like how you can see in the image with the man holding the camera, you can see fossoil, and valutech as branding in that image, and to the untrained eye it's like "Okay this looks pretty cool", and to anyone who's actively seen AI slop they'll notice a lot of features that look off. so maybe it's not entirely their fault, but I'm not entirely sure, they did the right thing and removed the offending content and I'm proud of that

[@MuuToo]

I hope that they get a new artist.

[@DoctorAids]

thing is with the AI art is that AI art has a very distinct style most of the time. The super smooth semi cartoony semi realistic blend that has super high brightness and stuff in the background randomly mushes together into slop

[@warmachine5835]

My dislike of the gunplay change comes from what I saw as the actual problems with guns and combat skills in general: That there's no way to get basic proficiency outside shooting zombies (the equivalent of firing on static targets before moving to live targets) and that the actual targeting logic would sometimes prioritize something all the way down the street instead of right in front of you, despite the "target outline" suggesting you were aiming at the zombie 3 meters away. I never used any of the crosshair or gunfighting mods because I liked the levels of abstraction. It's part of the appeal of games like PZ and Kenshi to me. So putting more of that on the player is a step in the wrong direction for me, since it becomes less about what my survivor can do and more about what I can do. So the change ends up being one step forward, two steps back from my perspective.

[@zacharynovak2180]

I think a fairly simplistic improvement to the system would be to have shooting skill improve when you hit something difficult. Something as rudimentary as difficulty = (1/(size of object))*(distance to object)+(visibiliy)-(shooting_skill). Then players could set up their own shooting ranges with small objects like bottles.

[@NotWendy3]

"Coming in 2045 in Build 43" was a nice touch.

[@TheFeralFerret]

The art is pretty clearly AI given the obvious AI artifacts, lol.

[@Marzeyyy]

those loading screens are most definitely AI art, there is little to no emotion or feel to any of these and it just feels dull and uncanny.

[@GhenTuongHB]

A contractor takes money and organizes a workers team to build a house. The house then collapses. Then the contractor: - Oh I don't know. I commisioned the workers to build the broken part. They're to blame, not me.

[@BlazeGaming-ix5no]

yall in the comment section need to calm down build 42 dropped recently and they are sure to change some of this stuff

[@GuyFieri-uf4jw]

the project zomboid community has a really bad toxic positivity problem, no differing thoughts or opinions are allowed, if you even dare to speak an original thought that isn't just glazing the devs for being the best devs in the world, you get banned, post removed, and sent to the shadow realm.

[@suppidish]

I thought the shooting felt off at close range. It's honestly nice to hear that there's hit reg issues cuz I thought I was crazy

[@comensee2461]

I ran the photos through 3 different websites and they all said it was 80% chance of being AI art. My guess is they used AI to generate the image then hand touched it up.

[@knightofsolice1304]

I am staunchly against AI, but those "AI Detector" websites are bullshit and absolutely NOT definite of anything

[@hadesoil7289]

@@knightofsolice1304 the women with 6 fingers in the back round of one image

[@zacharynovak2180]

@@knightofsolice1304 AI detectors are a lot more accurate when it comes to generated images because images tend to be comprised of a lot of data compared to a string of text, which has a low possibility range, leading to detectors showing many false positives or many false negatives.

[@theholyvessel5736]

Does anyone actually realize muscle strain can be turned off in settings.

[@pocketinfinity6733]

2:47 you know much you gotta hate something to make a mod for it just hours after an update goes live?

[@RedshirtAfficionado]

Indie stone consistently has the absolute worst PR. Passive aggressive w/ the community and banning people who criticize them too harshly. I love the game and I even like some of the less favored additions like muscle strain but they really gotta get their shit together

[@ryman1933]

For real, its been 13 years at what point are they going to buckle down and actually make the game. They've been relying on the steam workshop and modders to keep everyone entertained and invested in the game while they push out one update every 3 or 4 years. At some point they need to actually have a consistent work schedule that isn't them just sitting around raking in cash from steam sales every year. Then when people actually give feedback or criticize their methods they freak out on the community and play victim.

[@NickBeanDrums]

"Damned if you do, damned if you don't" will be the epitome of build 42. It adds tons of new content and mechanics, great. It does not scale in difficulty towards casual players, that was.. the point? I wound up modding the hell out of the game and tweaking nearly every sandbox setting so I could have an experience that I enjoyed, that's why those features exist. The game is supposed to be hard, it tells you how you'll die every time you create a new character. For an UNSTABLE BUILD, I think this is better than what most of us had expected. Counter Strike 2 wasn't perfect on launch but things got better. All the chaos surrounding the build will likely die down drastically within the next two weeks once people settle in and/or tweak their worlds for their playstyles.

[@higueraft571]

>he game is supposed to be hard, it tells you how you'll die every time you create a new character. Problem is, Muscle Strain isnt actually *hard.* Most of what it does is serves to drastically slow down the game. It's Endurance/Fatigue 2. ...not to mention how it actually works being seemingly poorly thought out. >For an UNSTABLE BUILD And that's the BEST time to criticize a new feature, when it's New and being actively focused on and tried out. Not weeks, months, or years later when it's more firmly settled as-is.

[@Silvahhhhhhhhhh]

Evil Predz be like: The IndieStone AI situation is CRAZY

[@elizabethlundin3112]

I'm pleased the devs took the art down. To people who say "who even cares" I need you to understand that a computer is not "drawing" the image. What AI art is, is a collage/composite of *other artists' work*, scraped from the internet from artists' profiles (instagram, twitter, etc) without consent. That's why a lot of artists are shutting down profiles or glazing their art. Even if a certain specific artist was paid, if they used AI art and retouched it, that is exactly the same as taking someone else's work, drawing over it, and then passing it off as their own. That's theft. I don't understand why it's so difficult for people to understand that. I don't believe TIS intended to use AI art and I feel bad for them that this has overshadowed the release. I feel bad for them that they likely got scammed by an artist cutting corners. But yes, it DOES matter. It's not "boo hoo AI is taking jobs" it's "this is theft of actual creative work". That's the ethical problem with AI generated images. The rest of the build is awesome, though.

[@Nereosis16]

I legitimately don't think these images are AI. I think everything everyone has pointed out as inconsistencies can more easily be explained by artistic impression and small mistakes. This whole thing is so fucking stupid.

[@siegfread9683]

​​@@Nereosis16ah yes. I too occasionally misspell words using punctuation. Common mistake really.

[@moonlitxangel5771]

@@Nereosis16 Except many of them really can't. Sure the AI sheen could be on purpose (why someone would want to delegitimize their art by making it look like AI is beyond me but I digress) but art is a very intricate process. You don't mistakenly have too few fingers on a hand or mistakenly shape them the wrong way or mistakenly use multiple different font types for lettering. A human being doesn't make those kinds of errors and those kinds of errors are present in those loading screens. Those are all errors distinctive to AI.

[@cipherstormwolf14]

Calling it collage/composite is actually better than me calling it recycled. I am going to use that from now on! Thanks.

[@ChokaSpoka]

Exactly! Along with that there’s the environmental impact and, if the artist really did get money for using AI, they are taking work from actual artists.

[@thehourman37]

I absolutely loved this update and am happy with it. The moodles are also something I'm really happy with. Way higher resolution and way better modder compatibility. I created several moodle mods for b41, and I'm excited to work on mods for the new moodle system. Please don't be too hard on them for this. It's a good change. On a side note, I also loved the new main menu and am disappointed that they changed it back after a couple days.

[@mr.joshua8664]

Oh man can you imagine if the artist is really legit and he sees a thread about his art being AI art. That must hurt his feelings. I once had the same experience and felt that way personally.

[@benignexistence4558]

well that won't happen because it is 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt to be AI generated.

[@KavsLockedOut]

the misaligned handle on the radio set on the image with the radio lady is pretty damning. no artist who is capable of that level of detail is going to screw up something so extremely elementary as perspective on a cuboid, thats unironically stuff they teach in art class to 12 year olds

[@trumancremers6337]

@@KavsLockedOutalso the fact that the pen becomes the wire on the radio and the wire becoming her hair is extremely damning

[@MonkeyShark]

​@@benignexistence4558saying your opinion is objectively true makes you an idiot

[@qunas101]

That's a big IF. The fact that slits on the mic are misaligned and some of them are smaller than others is a red flag

[@pine9218]

Many of us AMD users keep crashing before we even get to the character selection menu

[@cihloun]

The new moodles look questionable, hopefully devs will give you the option to change it back (without the use of mods)

[@madmantheepic7278]

Every discussion i’ve seen with Ai i see AI bros vehemently defending Ai art and i really don’t understand why. Use it, i don’t think any one cares, but to sit there and try to convince yourself that i looks even remotely good and not even understand why people don’t like it, like what are you doing, and there’s always the couple of comments who just hates artists, like genuinely, kind of ridiculous. These people man, they’re deeply troubled.

[@MordecaiSPM]

The problem with AI is that if they are willing to use AI for something as simple as a splash screen, how many other things do they use AI as a shortcut that they didn't tell us? This is not just an AAA or Indie problem, and it's even worse for indie devs since they don't have multimillion dollars to fall back and the trust of a small player base that they rely on. If they lost its trust, well GG, and from what I see people's trust is shaken with this one. The reason why Indie is now successful beyond AAA studio is because people trust Indie studio. Don't break that trust. Just look at Hello Games, it took them a decade to fixed their mistake and CDPR with 2077.

[@snowdevil002]

womp womp

[@electro7435]

Holy fuck it is a bit of art. They didn't even contribute to making it.

[@MordecaiSPM]

@@electro7435 that's not the point. The point is that if they are willing to lie intentionally or unintentionally and worse shift the blame knowing they are the captain of the ship for me I cannot trust this devs to ship a quality product like any western AAA devs. Which is a shame tbh.

[@blazingsummit]

Dude holy shit its just a drawing made with a retarded ai they’re not going to burn the fucking HQ down

[@TemmieContingenC]

@@MordecaiSPMI personally still have high hopes and trust in the indie stone, especially since the game itself is very fun and absolutely a blast to throw another 1K hours at. However you are right, it is a somewhat bad prescient being set. I wouldn’t say it’s as bad as the devs holding up the build by toothpicks, nor that I’m going to throw a fit because my loading screens are AI, but it leaves a funny taste in my mouth that I’d prefer doesn’t lead to a much deeper issue.

[@Kiloku2]

Pat Brennan saying stuff without checking and pissing off Lemmy is almost a monthly occurrence