AI, Space Marines, Human Civilization (Conversation with Modern Papist)

This is a clip from a much longer conversation I had with the Modern Papist.
the rest is on his channel: • Talking With a Fellow ...
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[@PilgrimsPass]

Watch the full conversation here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oX6cfZWVesSJasU

[@CLDJ227]

Nice with the collab work. I think the youtube channel Inspiring Philosophy would also be an intersting collab for you. You could talk about Tolkien or Christian themes in media 😎.

[@louiswain9139]

I’m not a creator myself but I represent a discussion group that is interested in talking with you, do you have a discord or telegram where we can talk more?

[@louiswain9139]

This comment

[@PilgrimsPass]

@@louiswain9139 alright, shoot me an email.

[@johnmanole4779]

​@@PilgrimsPass did you watch Gattaca?

[@jaegerbomb269]

I'm stoked you're talking Space Marines at last! For the Emperor!

[@manog6236]

he did talk about the sororitas befot its my fave video from him despite the audio quality

[@gabrielgonzalezrio]

It's the responsibility of those who would preserve humanity, to evolve surpassing those who would intent surpass humanity with AI. And the AI that they potentially can create

[@icarovdl]

Ótima observação, parabéns

[@Spartan_014]

If we could put any actual intelligence in an AI, it would be a fraction of our own. The pottery cannot be greater than the potter.

[@jaredcramsie182]

If this were true, present day humans would be no smarter than prehistoric man, or even monkeys. It is possible to become smarter than our predecessors by testing our ideas about the world and only keeping the ones that work. In nature this is 'natural selection', in humans it is "experimentation' and 'contemplation', and in machine learning it is "reinforcement' and 'knowledge distillation". The problem is that humans lack the ability to quickly augment themselves, reliant on their genetics. But AI systems, if they achieved human levels of intelligence, don't have this problem. Already large language models outpace our ability to read and recall large amounts of information. Ultimately I think pilgrim pass has the right approach, that technology should be used to improve humanity - if we want long term survival.

[@CATDHD]

Why not? Openheimer was the head of manhattan project. Is he bigger than nuclear winter? Or 4 liverpool Boys bigger than all beatles albums? E=mc2 are still being utilised like in plastic cards that the author of the formula didnt anticipate. And survival of the fittest will always be relevant, even in AR, and bigger hence, than Darwin himself.

[@chrystianaw8256]

​@@CATDHD nah

[@JackSmith-xx5mi]

It doesn't have to be more intelligent & it's a just a tool to replace humanity it'll start with say actors & the working class then the the warrior class & then financiers etc. Mostly because the elites in DC, Brussels, Geneva, Silicon Valley, etc. Have weirdo death cult ideas & not based fascist or trad-Cath ideas. The world mean & pain & suffering so the logical conclusion to these people is end it all because some how pain & suffering is inherently the worst thing even though the ideal physique can only be created through the pain of man & true courage cannot be known outside of adversity. Although there's a group of people in charge of the West who just hate the West for various reasons either way A.i isn't in our hands so I don't see any good happening from it. Sorry for the rant lol

[@davidogundipe808]

Great to see you again pilgrim, hopefully you do more videos, on philosophy and what not.

[@byronritchie5449]

I did have some reservations about this interview which I expressed on patreon but this was actually a pretty interesting discussion and I mostly agreed with your points

[@polemizator723]

I wrote this comment as an sacrefice to omighty algoritm of KZbin. Please give this film more atention, and recomend it.

[@JohnHenrysaysHi]

I keep thinking of that Jurassic Park "just because you can, doesn't mean you should". Heard your conversation on Modern Papist! Been subscribed to him for awhile, and have his videos in playlists, including your conversation with him! Liked his "Why Can't Catholics Scatter Ashes" and "Choosing method for Receiving the Eucharist" videos. Happy belated Mother's Day! "The loveliest masterpiece of the heart of God is the heart of a mother." -St. Therese of Lisieux "The Most Important Person on earth is a mother. She cannot claim the honor of having built Notre Dame Cathedral. She need not. She has built something more magnificent than any cathedral -a dwelling for an immortal soul, the tiny perfection of her baby's body. . . The angels have not been blessed with such a grace. They cannot share in God's creative miracle to bring new saints to Heaven. Only a human mother can. Mothers are closer to God the Creator than any other creature; God joins forces with mothers in performing this act of creation. .. What on God's good earth is more glorious than this: to be a mother?" -Joseph Cardinal Mindszenty Keep up the great work! Hope you have a light-filled week.

[@ModernPapist]

Thank you for this feedback. It means a lot to me that you like the ashes video as that was done because of a family misunderstanding.

[@JohnHenrysaysHi]

@@ModernPapist It was great. Thank you!

[@victoriaamat5368]

I'm glad you began doing collaborations, specially when your channel is developed around your perspective. It can be a great way to enrich your own content as well as the other creator. About the topic at hand, I don't think the vision of science as a path is appropriate, sure it can serve a didactic purpose functioning as a metaphor, but it's too simplistic(even the one with the branches). Since Science is(notice the capital, I'm not talking about scientists or scientific institutions) grounded on knowledge and there is no certain knowledge of the future, can we have a scientific view of a development outside what we have at hand? Another very different field is the application of knowledge by the people or by organizations. Knowledge can't be subjected to ethics, you can't chose not-to-know (that concept belongs to realm of fiction, where has been quite fruitful, topic for another essay?) and therefore is above morality. What we do or donot with knowledge is, on the other hand, the cornerstone of ethics. ALSO (and this is MUCH more important), we have let modern understanding (computer science, psychology, neuroscience, phenomenology, usw) dictate/limit our comprehension of Philosophy (and Theology). Your concept of imago as something that can be reproduced is very dependent on a certain pragmatism that views the quid as its effects (e.g. a calculator and my intelligence can state 2+2=4, but there is no point of comparison between something that solves a problem, intelligence, and something to which problems are not a thing since they all are a derivation of a solutions already given to it). You said God created conscience and maybe we can replicate that, what is conscience then that can be reproduce in such manner? Barely have we been able to mimic the reproduction of our material world, and it is still a contentious issue (synthetics, cloning, etc.), are we sure we are talking of the same thing we we speak of conscience in such lower terms?

[@PilgrimsPass]

Thank you Victoria, it's always a pleasure when you comment. Indeed testing my ideas with other perspectives is necessary and encountering other creators is the key for that. If you don't mind I'll copy your comment into my notes to reflect on it as I write my Space Marine video. When it comes to your argument I mostly agree which is why I was talking about technological development not scientific knowledge. Knowledge of God's universe is always good and should expand in all directions and what you said about knowledge not being subject to ethics is correct in my opinion. 1 Thessalonians 5:21: "but test all things. Hold fast to what is good." Technoloigcal development though is the application of knowledge and as you said that's a different thing entirely and that is very much subject to Ethics. The technologies we develop and apply socially should be according to the best path forward for humanity. When it comes to my concept of Imago Mentis that's just a hypothetical thought experiment and it's not something I think is likely and I agree with you that we don't even understand what consciousness is and we absolutely should be careful in applying it to a material product of our hands. However, not understanding the power of Consciousness and the possible implications of being made in the Image of the Creator of all things makes my hypothetical scenario at least something to consider. But I personally would prefer it not be possible. Things get less complicated that way.

[@owenchubb5449]

Your channel is the best! I share all your videos. Please keep making them

[@kinghoodofmousekind2906]

Hey Pilgrims; I love your stuff: this snippet sounds quite interesting. And, if you ever want to talk about various random things with a rather heterodox group of persons who still believe in traditions (not as mere ashes but as burning ambers which can still rekindle a fire), I am sure my 'boss' would be happy to invite you over and organise a small online discussion. Could take time to schedule this (as you have your own life and this is pretty much me asking you to come over, and I still need to see what my 'boss' says), but I would like to see you interact with some of us, ngl.

[@williamturner6192]

Thank you so much

[@Chaliebravo-6789]

A.I will never replace human soldiers, I will not stand for it

[@HolyknightVader999]

*Roger roger intensifies*

[@bellphorusnknight]

Anon, we already use algorithms for icbm and logistics, why not the soldier.

[@Chaliebravo-6789]

@@bellphorusnknightback in the day we used flairs and instinct

[@Chaliebravo-6789]

@@bellphorusnknightthe only enemy would be civilians

[@arnowisp6244]

My greatest fear is that removing the human cost of war would make it much easier to wage war amd more frequently.

[@shadow_of_the_spirit]

love your stuff like this and i want to see more.

[@1lobster]

Chad mentats vs cringe ai

[@platypipope328]

On AI consciousness, i don't believe that it ever can be truly conscious or self aware by virtue of the fact that AI effectively runs on nothing but instinct, only ever being able to do as is dictated to it by its code (the equivalent of its biology). It can't transcend this instinctual nature to become anything greater, whereas all human thought is not defined purely by our biology (no amount of injections into your head can make you understand a language you don't speak, or give you a memory that isn't yours, wheras you can with an AI). Because of this limitation inherent to its nature, AI can never truly think upon anything but instead will only ever be able to act instinctually.

[@ModernPapist]

I agree. This is one of the reasons I referred to AI as an animal.

[@ElishaFollet]

True

[@eminsh]

Cool to hear some thoughts on AI. I'll check out the full conversation. I think the idea of replacing God with AI is an interesting concept.

[@CLDJ227]

Nice with the collab work. I think the youtube channel Inspiring Philosophy would also be an intersting collab for you. You could talk about Tolkien or Christian themes in media 😎.

[@jamesmerone]

For the algorithm.

[@crusader2112]

Hey Pilgrim, just finished the listening to your conversation. Very Interesting. I was wondering have you heard of The Expanse, it’s a Sci-fi show. It’s decent, anyway it would be cool if you could talk about it. Peace ✌🏻

[@PilgrimsPass]

I saw the first season and part of 2 and 3 but thats it. I might try and finish it. thanks for commenting. :)

[@crusader2112]

@@PilgrimsPass No problem. Thanks for the great content. Keep up the great work. 👍

[@Ching2x770]

You should talk with J.Ishiro Finney, he has a group of writers in podcast and sometimes discuss about same themes with you.

[@MrTNT49]

Some channel called the Vanishing Point has made a Video on "The Healthy Masculinity of Aragorn:

[@bigape8640]

I thought Pilgrim Pass was having a conversation with something else for a second

[@StormCrow702]

Good to know your still putting in the work brother, I’m maybe not happy to say that I have reached the age of 24 as of 4 days ago. Spent it in good company with my family in Puerto Rico, but still couldn’t dull the sting of my grandma not being with us anymore. That aside another great topic for your channel would be AI replacing men and women on the dating market. Forgive my weakness but if I can have a realistic robot woman that can have my child and not use me as a bank withdrawal, I don’t really see why i should put myself at risk with women anymore. Thank you for all the work sir and God bless.

[@ElishaFollet]

Because dating machines is pathetic, and will never give u the same emotional connections and satisfaction that a human can already provide in a much suppier and more thrilling, deep and meaningful way.

[@DTBluesreviews]

That was very interesting

[@leonidaspereirafilho499]

"You know?" Nah, bro, I don't know, becaus I can barely understand you between the eco in the dudes mic and his pronunciation :v. all in all, good clip!

[@xenophon5354]

Would love to hear a conversation between you and Dave from The Distributist

[@PilgrimsPass]

we had set it up twice already but it didn't work both times. Here's hoping that the third time is the charm.

[@unknownslayer7363]

Yo question, will the third part of the dragonborn story he continuing or na?

[@PilgrimsPass]

yes, we just started working on it now. it took a while to get the team together.

[@PilgrimsPass]

I'll be real with you, It's kind of frustrating seeing so many demands for part 3 when no one is helping support it when it's an expensive endeavor. Non of my patrons are related to it, they're fans of the video essays and fans of the animation ridicule the call of support to make part 3 happen then get feisty when it takes so long. But in the end I guess it doesn't matter. I'm finishing part 3 for me at this point. So we'll take our sweet sweet time.

[@unknownslayer7363]

Alr I just found the channel so was interested

[@hectilliusthelegionary8496]

So, uhmm... Did anyone else horribly misread the "Modern Papist" in the title?

[@polemizator723]

You should try ,,Black Oceans" writed by Dukaj. He presents the world when Humans are in power. But every decision comes from algoritm.

[@Chaliebravo-6789]

Common pilgrim w

[@StormCrow702]

Brother, related to this topic I can give you a recommendation for your reading interest. Singularity Sunrise by Kit Sun Cheah. It is about an AGI being released into the world and all of the countries reaction to it. It deals with state abused ai and how the human race can be enhanced or enslaved by machines. It five books long but very short and precise. Thank you again for the video and if my evangelion recommendation means anything you know I only give the best.

[@a_rtyom]

am i the only one who read the title wrong?

[@1977Yakko]

AI is the big question now. What's it capable of? What's the limit? Is there a limit? Is it actually intelligent or is it just a advanced program that can learn but has the biases of its programmer? Man made Armageddon might not involve a flash and mushroom clouds. What's the potential for our man made Armageddon to be from digital code and not the atom?

[@MBP1918]

Nice

[@XxXVideoVeiwerXxX]

This guy should talk to sitch and adam

[@KaapoKallio]

The real question is if AI can achieve true consciousness without possessing a soul.

[@renzmanzano4010]

Damn.... almost read that as (conversation with modern rapist)

[@arturnicaciodeandrade9861]

I thought that at first too. Guess I could say "me too", huh ?

[@StoneCBears]

Butlerian Jihad anyone?

[@polemizator723]

Atreides!

[@xenophon5354]

Blood for the Emperor, skulls for the Golden Throne!

[@Astorath_the_Grim]

Repent heretic.

[@Johnnyupside]

Are you a malal believer by any chance?

[@Astorath_the_Grim]

Its pronounced pay-pist

[@MrViktorolon]

Colab com Guilherme Freire já!

[@crusader5256]

If an economic collapse is what is taketh to prevent Elon's "digital god" than so be it!

[@xenophon5354]

Why do we need to keep developing technologically? Why is this being treated as a given?

[@PilgrimsPass]

I'll get into that in my space Marine video but basically to defend yourself from those who do. if you don't master technology you'll be mastered by it unfortunately. But also to improve living standards which is very important in bringing peace. Just how I see things.

[@EugenePoole94]

@@PilgrimsPass Essentially its escalation, correct? Deterence if you will. In the latest episode of Petersons podcast, they discussed the potential outcomes of a decentralized a.i. system that operates on a local level, segregated from the vast network of the web. They went on to discuss how our digital selves are brokered to corporations that benevolently(as they put it) wish to put product in front of our faces. So this would be one aspect of deterrence being necessitated in terms of having a personalized a.i. that follows you everywhere you go. In the context of a neo-medieval future that you posit we are inevitably barreling towards Pilgrim(feel like John Wayne saying this), one could abstract these personal a.i.'s as a familiar of sorts. Or better yet, a guardian angel. It's peculiar, because the guest JP is interviewing basically hypothesized that if youre of the christian faith lets say, you could potentially attenuate these things with the entire biblical corpus and any accompanying theological substrata complementing it in order that it could whisper in your ear when moral ambiguity rears its ugly head. A digital phantom of the holy spirit in other words.

[@xenophon5354]

@@PilgrimsPass I’ll wait to comment on that video then, but there are worse things to being conquered in the temporal realm. As such, treating it as a given is in my view wrong-headed.

[@xenophon5354]

@@PilgrimsPass This problem has been referred to by the wonderful The Franklin on KZbin as Isildur’s Trap. That is, one is drawn to the power of the ring because it promises the power to defeat your enemies, even while it corrupts your soul. This is a trap that needs to be addressed, especially if technological advancement is being treated as a given. Maybe Gondor’s survival supersedes all other concerns, even unto becoming like Sauron by choosing the ring, but I’m not convinced.

[@PilgrimsPass]

@@EugenePoole94 Yes I had come to this exact conclusion, even going so far as to conclude that the future is Techno-Tradition where you build your own personalized AI and when your kids come of age you help them build their own. These personalized AI will be an extension of themselves and an imprint in the digital world. But as a Catholic they should not be a replacement of a Guardian Angel, devout Catholics should seek a real personal relationship with their actual guardian angel, but yes that similarity wasn't lost on me. I didn't watch that Peterson video but I came to this exact conclusion yesterday and you just made me bump up that video in my priorities. Those who want a Space Marine video should blame you for convincing me to make this video first lol. I'm kidding, but yeah it's good to know I'm not alone in my conclusions.

[@MontChevalier]

Dude. You have got to figure out something about the avatar you're using to represent yourself in these videos. I swear, if you don't get better art, I'm gonna do it myself.

[@PilgrimsPass]

you don't like the chibi? everyone likes chibi. In all seriousness even my artist told me that. Maybe I should set up a competition online or something

[@MontChevalier]

I don't hate the chibi. But the content you have is quality. The avatar, not so much. Breaks the heart to see good work on top of not so good work.

[@richardblum3516]

I like your thinking about how we need to use technology to evolve humanity instead of letting AI evolve without us. That's actually what Elon Musk is trying to do with neurolink, although he gets a lot of crap for it. He wants AI to become an extension of the human mind rather than a separate mind that does the thinking on behalf of humanity.