Its Not FASCISM Bro

[@PilgrimsPass]

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[@DaveShap]

Man, you have some of the best thoughtful takes on stuff, I have no idea why you don't have more subscribers. Happy to talk sometime if you want.

[@PilgrimsPass]

@@DaveShap Thank you! that would be great :)

[@The_Evil_Eye]

I don't know if this is the place to discuss this but I am interested in trying to get a working definition for fascism. I'm gonna watch this video but here are also my thoughts before watching it. TL;DR: I define fascism as an ideology which takes the strength and health of the nation as the paramount political concern. This introduces gray zones for many modern states. The definition I use, which I derived from reflecting upon an interesting video by Ryan Chapman (that I think was actually pretty right-leaning in sensibility) is that fascist ideology considers the strength and health of the nation as the paramount political concern, that this takes precedence over any other political principles, and that this inevitably places nations in a zero sum game with one another. This definition I use in contrast to the other two ideologies of the 20th century, liberal free market capitalism and communism. Under liberal free market capitalism, the private property and individual freedom of the rich, enterprising individual is taken as the paramount political concern, and it takes precedence over other principles like the health of the nation. In domains where the individual's freedom isn't paramount, liberalism would lean on the utilitarian philosophies of people like Jon Stewart Mills. Under Communism, the abolition of private property and the replacement of the capitalist system with a classless society is taken as the paramount political concern. These definitions should demonstrate why the fascist regimes played overtures to both capitalism and socialism and why the economic question wasn't such a great concern for these regimes compared to the health and strength of their respective nations. It should also illustrate how capitalist and communist regimes and movements can have fascist elementa and undertones without necessarily being labelled simply as Nazis, and even how the dynamics of the overtly fascist regimes can emerge in non-fascist ones by the degree to which the "nation" becomes a matter of paramount security. Of course, since we live in a nation-state system, one might question if my definition is overly broad. I think that: 1. One should accept that there is a strange gray zone in which modern regimes often operate that have some elements of fascism without necessarily being a carbon copy of the 20th century cases. 2. The degree to which one can call a modern regime "fascist" in the prejorative sense is determined by the degree to which the strength and health of the "nation" is elevated above other political principles like the individual capitalist freedoms the US for example elevates.

[@jeusmarcomascarina4102]

But first is Facism really bad or the interest IS?

[@PlagueRunner]

The federation is fascist they use force to suppress every human into following their rules

[@reviewspiteras]

Calling everything that has authoritatian tendencies -facist- is something we must also blame on later half 20th century pop culture that pushed this concept outside its original meaning. Now its just another slang that is meaningless

[@davidfrancisco3502]

The only reason americans are so affraid Of monarchy is because of decades of propaganda in the marxist run mainstream media.

[@ThreadBareHope1234]

I agree. I think that it also comes from the glamorization of rebellion in America. I think it has its place, but a lot of people don't seem to care that hierarchies and standing by principles aren't inherently evil. I bet this I'd why they need to write the New Republic in Star Wars to be stupid or evil.

[@davidfrancisco3502]

@@ThreadBareHope1234 Dude, your comment and the one I wrote in this thread first got shadowbanned I cannot see both.

[@vlthk]

​ @davidfrancisco3502 Can confirm, it shows 3 replies but when expanded only shows 1.

[@g-ray7121]

western civilization saw how fucking horrid the nazis were and tried to get as far away from them culture-wise as possible, at the cost of them doing anything great europe went from being several world-spanning empires to being a populist backwater this is why idiots who support the current thing sometimes even say centrist media is fascist

[@woahhbro2906]

Fascism is when my stepdad makes me do my homework

[@hellenicboi14]

Fascism is when my mom tells me to get a job.

[@kittycatwithinternetaccess2356]

​@@hellenicboi14 😂my stepmom is a fascist

[@WhoDaresWinso7]

Sounds like cope from someone who broke up a family.

[@freakfilicon]

"step" dad? that's usurpation of power!

[@russianoverkill3715]

​@@freakfiliconlmao, it's like "is your mom a kingdom? Because every man wants to usurp her throne."

[@lancewalker2595]

The notion that Edmund Burke is even remotely “fascist” is laughable.

[@LordHighTorturer]

It is truly insane. Obviously the ones crying 'fascist' are attacking something deeper (order perhaps? Maybe their father?).

[@Billmaster115]

Father of liberalism = fascist

[@oatdilemma6395]

erm of course he was, he's a white man, automatically a fascist

[@ImperialSenpai]

Conservatism is the enemy of all socialist ideologies, whether it be national socialism, fascism, or communism.

[@vistagreat9994]

@@ImperialSenpai Undeniably true.

[@Deathmageddon]

Fascism is when my wife’s boyfriend won’t let me play with Legos

[@JuanRabino-z6i]

XD

[@The_blessed_dead]

Facism is when chuds make fun of me for getting cucked

[@AkaRyrye83]

This is Tim Walz struggle in a nutshell

[@Netro1992]

The only correct definition.

[@nigachu8249]

Average white dudes for harris experience

[@jeffreysommer3292]

"It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else." -George Orwell

[@EyePatchGuy88]

What year did he say this? I'm only asking since I've recently maintained that fascism became a buzzword in the late 40s to 50s.

[@jeffreysommer3292]

@@EyePatchGuy88 I'm not quite sure, except it had to have been between 1941 and 1950--and I expect it was more likely around 1944.

[@newrecru1t]

​@@EyePatchGuy88 Tribune, 1944. You'll find the full comment from Orwell on the matter.

[@TheBlackfall234]

@@newrecru1t i think orwell is missunderstood in one point. He is often seen as a Critic of Fascism, but he is in fact always describing a Bolshevist-Dystopian world. Wich our world is actually turning into, so it makes sense that everything that goes against Bolshevism is demonized with the help of the word "fascism". A Communist World, wich defeated the "demonic fascism" would of course call everything that goes against it "fascist", because people have been indoctrinated to believe that fascism is basically another word for absolute evil.

[@Alte.Kameraden]

Orwell's "What is Fascism?"

[@tomassmith1519]

The Emperor of Mankind is indeed not fascist, he is just an absolute monarch lol

[@PilgrimsPass]

THANK YOU. He's "Enlightened Despotism". which was a movement among absolute monarchs. I came to the same conclusion I'm going to say that when I eventually do a video on it.

[@jacekstepinski5245]

But the Emperor doesn't really control the Imperium, does he now?

[@eriktheos6022]

I mean, he does seem to excert some control. Maybe not directly but the fact that there are custodians running aorund the Imperium protecting seemingly random people does seem to imply he can sort of give orders.@@jacekstepinski5245

[@gravitatemortuus1080]

@@jacekstepinski5245 No the nobles do.

[@thebighurt2495]

@@gravitatemortuus1080 At this point, it's a Feudal Monarchy with Emps as a Figurehead

[@immikeurnot]

Don't ignore that the in-universe reason for the citizenship system in Starship Troopers was to stop government getting involved in pointless wars. And the common non-citizen in that book still plainly had every other right that citizens had aside from voting and holding office. Rico's father was a very vocal critic of the government and seemed to think becoming a citizen was something people only did out of vanity.

[@sticy5399]

Well the book certainly has fascist undertones. The movie is a parody of the book. While I agree with the video, it’s also important to discern the underlying social structures facilitating certain modes of government. Starship Troopers might appear to represent the soldier citizen, but at it’s core it demonstrates the dehumanising and paradoxically oppressive nature of a citizen becoming free through being a soldier.

[@mycoolhandgiveit]

@@sticy5399 the only freedom gained by a civilian turned citizen (be it through civil or military service) is the responsibility of political influence and the culpability that comes with it. The upper echelon are explicitly held to a higher standard of conduct and a greater level of punitive action should they commit a crime or otherwise violate the trust placed in them.

[@TheSpecialJ11]

@@mycoolhandgiveit Exactly. Once you have the franchise, crimes are punished much more harshly. What was once a severe fine for a civilian ends up being the death penalty for a citizen.

[@roberthultz9023]

It is a vanity play - There seems to be no economic or social downside to not taking the leap into Citizenship. Rico's family is wealthy.

[@normaaliihminen722]

@@sticy5399I think you forget that book’s plot revolves around existential threat which bugs pose to humanity. In the book as well as in the movie it has shown that bugs are intelligent creatures they definitely pose higher though but they are determined to destroy humans.

[@liveforever141]

>HOW DARE YOU QUESTION YOUR AUTHORITY!!!! QUESTIONING OF AUTHORITY IS EXTREMELY UNDEMOCRATIC!!! QUESTIONING AUTHORITY LEADS TO FASCISM!!! - supposed democracy defender.

[@peaceribbon8322]

I think the main reason stuff gets called fascist isn’t because of anything related to the political theory itself, but rather by using such a charged word you can immediately get a negative connotation made in the hearer’s mind. It’s really just a way of screaming “THIS IS BAD” but the writer isn’t clever enough to come up with a real reason to argue, so they use a word with which the audience can create a reason for them.

[@barnoldwhv]

This is on point and the reason it works so well in arguments. Can't debate your point? Scream "fascist".

[@AJX-2]

"fascist" and "fascism" are little more than fnords

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

“Why, then, cannot we have a clear and generally accepted definition of it? Alas! we shall not get one - not yet, anyway. To say why would take too long, but basically it is because it is impossible to define Fascism satisfactorily without making admissions which neither the Fascists themselves, nor the Conservatives, nor Socialists of any colour, are willing to make. All one can do for the moment is to use the word with a certain amount of circumspection and not, as is usually done, degrade it to the level of a swearword.” - George Orwell

[@bro4539]

Fascism is the modern equivalent of bad juju

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

Just had my comment shadowbanned. If they just want to be a streaming service, why don't they just say so?

[@kail4997]

I think people are starting to catch on to the “everything is bad mustache man/ fascist” trend. When everything is fascist, nothing is.

[@Jiub_SN]

People have done this shit forever man. Once this is done there'll be something new, hopefully the type of people that do this shit or society generally matures so it stops happening because it's horrible

[@osakanone]

If you think the definition "describes everything" around you, think more about who or what you surround yourself with. Consider the smallness of your world.

[@noreply-7069]

​@@osakanone Nope. It's the people throwing the word around meaninglessly who have small vocabularies and brains.

[@Shyhalu]

@@Jiub_SN No, that is degeneracy - not "something new". All forms of new degeneracy introduced into society get that treatment until it becomes normalized. You can see it happening today with D Q storytime for children and "MAP"s.

[@reinertgregal1130]

Imagine all of this flips over and no one takes "this is fascist" seriously anymore and they have to invent some new term.

[@Treblaine]

"Criticizing a politician is undermining democracy!" so is democracy just granting absolute power to anyone who wins an election? These people want a "democracy" like North Korea where there's technically elections but you can never actually disagree with or criticize the ruling party.

[@Warsie]

civilian control of the military is pretty important to democracy, as it's not a guarantee that a military run wild will enshrine that well (see: Pakistan or every country which has a lot of coups)

[@Treblaine]

​@@Warsie If you seek control to silence criticism them you're a despot. Criticisms is not "running wild", this is dialogue, they're talking to each other. Why is it when support for this lefty-BS always comes down to shutting down speech and controlling communication so basically only leftists speak and everyone else just are supposed to repeat them?

[@tiffanywyatt5137]

​​@@WarsieI see but I also see how having civilians run ensures endless pointless wars where you often lose. Look at how many Americans have forgotten how embarrassing Afghanistan was and they are now encouraging getting involved in Ukraine and such. At least I would change it to "if you support the war then you must fight in it". Really it seems civilians can be just as tyrannical as any military coup

[@Warsie]

@ywyatt5137 I mean the American involvement in Vietnam was just as muddled but the civilian government of that time was made of WWII veterans who did the stuff they did because they didn't want to risk WWIII with China and/or the USSR. EDIT: fort Bush II, at least he served as a national guard fighter pilot and Rumsfeld was ALSO a navy pilot in the 1950s. So they served, just werent in combat.

[@Treblaine]

​@@Warsie The major issue was the boomer generation who refused to do the duty their parents generation did and rejected conscription in a time of war. So much so they were prepared to destroy all social conventions to avoid military service.

[@GenericProtagonist7]

Monarchism? Fascism. Capitalism? Fascism. Communism? Fascism. Liberalism? Fascism. My dad? Fascism.

[@BuckNut-ck1sl]

Fascism is when right wing government right wing governments.

[@Xamufam]

​@@BuckNut-ck1slfascism is neither left nor right it's both, a government that is very intrusive both economically and socially

[@gladys2563]

​@@Xamufam Fascism is a far-right extremist movement. It is recognized as far-right from before it even emerged. You're confusing Fascism with bonapartism. Fascism is nationalistic approach to the state, the most reactionary culturally and economically at the time government.

[@allenr3164]

Vanilla ice cream... fascism. 😅

[@harbl99]

* holds up next inkblot picture *

[@michaelman957]

Even George Orwell pointed out that people were using the word so much that it lost meaning and used it just to lambast their opponents. So this isn't new (though it has gotten worse).

[@TheBlackfall234]

Orwell was more of a Bolshevist Critic then a Fascist Critic aswell.

[@randomtheorist251]

​@@TheBlackfall234 Maybe but he never went and actively fought Bolsheviks.

[@moongoalie2410]

@@randomtheorist251because he was coward like the rest of any left leaning liberal. They never fight anyone, only allowing others to do it for them.

[@TheBlackfall234]

@@randomtheorist251 Thats why i used the word critic.

[@profile1172]

@@randomtheorist251 Not physically but he left the Republicans of the Spanish Civil War when the Bolsheviks of the USSR arrested and unarmed leaders and groups that did not submit to the authority of the USSR

[@Skyscraper125]

"Oh no, it's the ghost of facism" should be a standard response to people pointing and yelling "fascist".... that or "Ghost of Pasta Politics"

[@intelligencecube6752]

😂

[@THECHEESELORD69]

Nationalism exists, it is a thing, facism is basically turbo nationalism as far as I see it.

[@intelligencecube6752]

@@THECHEESELORD69 Fascism is Nationalism when they made bad life decisions and went down a life of crime to fuel their drug addiction.

[@SCHMALLZZZ]

​@@THECHEESELORD69Fascism is corporatism.

[@THECHEESELORD69]

@@SCHMALLZZZ no? You can’t call everything facist or the word looses its meaning

[@Pangora2]

in SST, the simple fact most of the population ignore the State and look at State service as a waste of time already disqualifies it from being fascist. Being a voting Citizen is simply optional. Noting is optional in fascism.

[@jonathansibrian695]

Neither in comunism neither in monarchism neither in feudalism

[@elpsykoongro5379]

@@jonathansibrian695 neither for you it seems

[@geraldfountaine5645]

Yes, but if you don't serve the state you're not eligible for citizenship. So it makes sense to ignore the state since you've got no vote anyway.

[@John-fk2ky]

@@jonathansibrian695 Wrong. Well, partially wrong. Your argument for Communism is correct, but the other two need a bit more nuance. Unless there was a war going on, under monarchy you'd barely interact with the government outside of taxes if you weren't a criminal or got a government job. Plenty of optionality there. With feudalism, there really wasn't a state worth speaking of. Almost everything ran on a series of relationships and loyalties. Of what could be somewhat called a state, most of those interacting with it would be nobles, who would then interact with the non-nobles in their territories. There was quite a bit the state couldn't do simply because it relied on those relationships to function.

[@user-df4kf6fg7h]

@@John-fk2ky Less interaction with the government under a monarchy had more to do with less developed information and transport technology. Ruling monarchies that survived to the 20th century (Prussia, Russia, Austria etc) had no problem starting to centralize and increase their power. As for feudalism, then the nobles effectively *were* the state - they ruled their territories, held court and collected taxes. Ask your average peasant how much choice they had under feudal lords, even in places that escaped outright serfdom.

[@Quincy_Morris]

When people say faschist they mean authoritarian. But they don’t use that term because usually they want an authoritarian system that promotes their worldview, and an authoritarian system that isn’t supported their worldview is ‘fascist’

[@martianimperialcouncil9194]

So what if I want a government that isn’t Authoritarian or Totalitarian?

[@JRaney]

@@martianimperialcouncil9194 They still call you faschist. (Yes. I know it's spelled wrong.)

[@Cheattoe]

Fun fact Mussolini hated pasta and its effects on Italian culture

[@NoFlu]

"Pasta and its consequences have been a disaster for the Italian Race" ~Tedito Mussolinzki

[@Captain_Eagle]

That’s not true. Mussolini never hated pasta. You’re thinking of Filippo Tommaso Marinetti.

[@ghoulbuster1]

MAMA MIA

[@arnowisp6244]

And that already Disqualifies him from being Italian.

[@k.f.m6901]

​@@NoFluWell, that would be a Hitler take cobsidering Mussolini positions on race. . .

[@otimo144]

Interesting note on Star Ship Troopers is that the writer and director where at odds on how they wanted to adapt the work, the director wanting to lean in to parody and criticism while the writer wanted to make a faithful adaptation. Interesting that it made such a good movie regardless.

[@publiusventidiusbassus1232]

Furthermore, the original book of Starship Troopers was not anti-military satire. It was a legitimate and honest exploration of themes of individualism, statehood, social responsibilities and civic virtue with the backdrop of an alien invasion. While Heinlein is definitely pro-militarized society, the book was hardly propaganda as he specifically framed the topics in the form of classroom discussions.

[@piotrd.4850]

@@publiusventidiusbassus1232 Yeah, it was "pro militarized" society as frak - where "Mobile infantry was smallest army in history in relation to population it protects", all volunteer force and publicly shunned, one of many ways to acquire 'sovereign franchise'; more popular was working for 2 years in public services.

[@zp6ri]

if I'm thinking right there is an interview with Paul Verhoeven where he admits when he was going to make the movie, he picked up the book and didn't even finish the first chapter before tossing it to someone else to read. then just made what ever he wanted.

[@duncanharrell5009]

@@zp6ri Sounds like your typical Hollywood elitist...

[@miserychickadee]

​@@duncanharrell5009 lol Paul Verhoeven survived the nazis and the allied bombings, and he made fucking robocop

[@Jitterzz]

When I see Starship Troopers being called fascist, I absolutely laugh my ass off. The fact that a military leader like the Sky Marshall would take responsibility for an operational failure that cost lives, step down and relinquish command, with full transparency to the populace? This is not something that would happen in a fascist state. Heck, in our world we have “democracies” in today’s day and age that don’t take responsibility for any failures within or outside their borders.

[@John-fk2ky]

In the book, they need a new Sky Marshal because the original one died in combat on the mission he sent them on.

[@Jitterzz]

@@John-fk2ky I do need to educate myself more on the events of the novel as well. So he even goes on the mission with the troops? Dang, I didn’t know “authoritarians” lead from the front lines. 🤣 Thanks for sharing, I appreciate that info.

[@russellharrell2747]

The director of the movie explicitly used fascistic imagery to spoof jingoism, imperialism and groupthink in general. The book presents a global representative government in which one only participates after serving in the military or another equivalent service. The novel also presents the majority as non-franchised (non voting) civilians as opposed to franchised citizens, with that majority blissfully ignorant of the dangers that Earth and the human race faces in the galaxy, dangers that would obliterate the planet if not for the thin line held by the mobile infantry and other military units. While fetishizing military strength is a facet of fascism it is not at all the entire definition. Authoritarianism is likewise not the only defining element of fascism. The most glaringly missing element in the book and movie is the oppression of an out group (the enemy aliens do not count since they aren’t part of earth or human society). The movie in particular presents an apparent egalitarian society in that all members have equal access and opportunity and that even disabled individuals have access to futuristic health care and prosthetics (citizenship being only intended to grant access to voting rights and representation and civilians otherwise enjoying access to all other aspects of a post-scarcity society). So I’d say the novel and film portray an expansionist imperial humanity, with the novel attempting to make the case of evolutionary imperative necessitating the society, and the film parodying imperialism with the implausibility of planet-bound bugs launching an asteroid to hit earth and implying a false flag attack to justify the war.

[@jonttul]

Are you really so stupid that you're arguing that the Federation in the movie Starship Troopers isn't facist, when the guy who made it grew up in Nazi occupied Netherlands and made the movie specifically as a parody of facist militarism? Are you actually that fucking stupid?

[@Lonovavir]

Leaders taking responsibility is the real science fiction of Starship Troopers, the mech suits look realistic by comparison.

[@phillipp5538]

My favorite is when Democracy does something terrible and they call it fascistic when it literally happens in democracies.

[@schadowizationproductions6205]

i.e. if you vote for a fascist it's not a fascist because that'd be fascism in a democracy. I really don't understand why the UK had to ban fascism during the war against fascist nations because fascism can't happen in a democracy per definition, right?

[@logandelaharpe6362]

Fascism and communism are literally just the same thing regardless

[@davidfrederiksen3185]

​@@schadowizationproductions6205no that is wrong fascism worked inside a democracy to remove it. But they didn't exactly do it in a democratic way. The thing is You can have fascist in a Democracy they just don't play by the rules of democracy

[@davidfrederiksen3185]

​@@schadowizationproductions6205hitler for example participated in democracy had a parti and so on

[@advakart4208]

didn't hitler gain power in a democracy

[@patrickbuckley7259]

The problem I have with Umberto Eco's idea of the Ur-Fascist, is that not only does it divorces the idea of Fascism from any kind of Fascist policy, It very much turns Fascism into the very sort of mystical boogie man that Fascists and Communists alike loved to use to seize political power. The Timplin Institutes video actually demonstrates this quite perfectly. As he is arguing that the leader's of the nation state are above being critiqued. Inspite of the fact that if he was really worthy of his position, he would be able to counter this lack of a military record by invoking the service he has done in lieu of a such a career, or at the very least the benefit he has provided to the Republic sense taking office. If he cannot do so, then his authority deserves to be undermined, so that he either A. is forced to correct this lack of service via proving his value to the citizens of the Republic, or B. can be replaced via the democratic process by someone who CAN can meet such a challenge, proving his value to the Citizenry with honest dignity. This is quite literally at the heart of both the Republican ideal. The notion that we must automatically bow, without question, to elected officials never questioning their motives or credentials, is promoting the idea that Democratic election alone has bestowed upon them some kind of spiritual authority. As if elected officials are by the shear mystery of the electoral process transmuted into an extension of the peoples will, or perhaps are inhabited by the ineffable spirit of the nation state... you know, like a Fascist Dictator or something. In a healthy and free Republic no one is beyond reproach, ESPECIALLY Politicians, because a Republic can only flourish when people are willing and able to question their leadership. Otherwise you might as well pack it up and invite the royals into a shiny new palace. Better than some rat who's only qualification is being able to convince people bullshit smells like roses.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

He is essentially advocating for authoritarian democracy.

[@Beleidigen-ist-Pflicht]

Loose mouþs may issue speech þat Umberto's goal wasn't objectivity, but to denounce fascism at þe cost of truþfulness.

[@Alte.Kameraden]

Umberto Eco lied through his teeth in Ur Fascism. TIKhistory rips him a part in his video Fascism Defined.

[@GensokyanImperialism]

Ur Fascism doesn't exist. Umberto Eco just tried do make Mussolini pass as a pupet of Julius Evola making him pass as the one that ruled Italy while making black magic. Ok, nice for the plot of an Italian Wolfenstein game, but it doesn't represent real life.

[@Alte.Kameraden]

@@GensokyanImperialism Actually Evola has been used to bring the ideologies of Nazism and Fascism together as one ideology when they're not the same ideology. Evola's Racism and Mysticism has been used to link together with the Himmler's Cultic nonsense, and Hitler's Racist views. To paint Fascism and Nazism as kin. Which is far from the truth. Both ideologies evolved separately and may have influenced each other from time to time, but so did just about everyone, FDR for example borrowed much from Italian Fascism, and Stalin borrowed a lot from the veneer of Nazism to make the USSR at least on film/photo look as impressive. Umberto Eco is sadly cited too often because people "WANT" them to be the same ideology. There is no better way to prove they're not the same ideology than using the hostility in Britain between the different "Fascist" the two largest were one party built on Italian Fascism and the other built on Nazism, but because externally people viewed them as the same ideologies they both called themselves Fascist. As a result you had two "Fascist" parties fighting each other in bloody battles in the streets of Britain over what "Fascism" was. You can also use the hostility between the Austrian Fascist Party and Austrian Nazi Parties.

[@roycehuepers4325]

I prefer Mandalorians meritocracy. “The Empire and the Rebellion both have flawed ideas of government. The difference is that the Empire has the coin.” - Boba Fett

[@arkadycaca]

That's definitively plutocracy.

[@roycehuepers4325]

@arkadycaca no actually it's not. A leader of Mandalorians is a curious person. He takes command with reluctance, rules with no power, and dies the most beloved soldier of all his companions. Now who in the hell would want that position?” - Fenn Shysa

[@justinlinarez6757]

​@roycehuepers4325 I'm all for a merit based system, but how does that apply to Bo Katan? In Disney's Clone Wars canon Bo was the second in command in what was essentially a terrorist faction working to undermine her planet's atemp at a (for them) new form of government lead by her sister. Said faction spearheaded a hostile takeover, causing the death of said sister, but she didn't say or do anything about it until AFTER Maul killed "her man" in ritual combat that her faction claimed to support as true mandalorian culture. In Rebels, Bo was just handed the dark saber without earning it in hopes she would lead her people well. Apparently that didn't go very well, seeing as how Moff Gideon had the saber by the time season one of the Mandalorian started. But none of that matters because she is given the saber without earning it AGAIN. As a personal nitpick, nobody seems to remember that Bo is around the same age as Obi-Wan. This would make her a woman well passed her prime by the time of the Mandalorian series, which takes place after the fall of the empire. I love how the Old Republic did Mandalorian Meritocracy much better, but that system had its flaws too. It lead to mandalorians following a "might makes right" mentally that saw their fall from warriors to thugs.

[@aaronliiva824]

>in disneys clone wars cannon… That’s where you went wrong pal… Still tho, the EU mandalorians are decentralized to the point that you can’t compare them to the galactic governments. Even the neocrusaders were basically a confederation of pirate bands.

[@MrCmon113]

"meritocracy" is not a political system. Who decides who has merit? Politics is precisely those things where people DISAGREE on what's right and therefore don't have a common measure. So your answer is a complete copout.

[@spacejunk2186]

The issue with the Hera scene was that Hera WAS acting irresponsibly before, but the Republic government was also super stupid.

[@benjamintherogue2421]

She was amazingly incompetent in that show. She absolutely should have been held accountable for getting people killed on an absolutely idiotic mission that didn't achieve anything. The government not simply firing her was their stupidest move.

[@johnecoapollo7]

@benjamintherogue2421 The whole handling of that scene and plotline was stupid in general, there's no one part of it that wasn't unless you REALLY like Hera. A misfire in an otherwise cool show

[@benjamintherogue2421]

@@johnecoapollo7 I don't know about the show being that cool. Every character was acting like her, most especially Admiral "I see this defeat as an absolute win" Thrawn. And when will main characters actually die from lightsabers again?

[@wanjanechtangroeger]

When you look at Hera's past, her reaction is also kind of understandable. She has feelings after all and just snapped.

[@nitebones1]

what i super hated in that show was how stupid the NR was even hera like they were saying there was no evidence of thrawn or anything. yet you had a dark jedi activly attacking people in the open on camera and in full view of everyone why didnt Hera say this as her evidence that at least something needs to be investigated. also when the NR arrived at the planet and Hera was trying to stall them again why didnt she just send them images of the hyperdrive ship going i told you so but no they kept it a secret creating drama it is just so ilogical

[@Raidwall]

Fascism is when my dad wakes me up for church on Sunday morning at NINE, even though I was up till four on my Furry Hazbin Hotel RP discord server.

[@Sanguinary797]

I’ll start an argument in this comment section in four words. “Your Dad was right.” And here. we. go…

[@хитсикер]

​@@Sanguinary797you tried i give you that

[@thesithofearth3617]

​@@Sanguinary797yes

[@RHR1991]

Definition of fascism: Any ideology I don´t like.

[@robertanderson9509]

*anyone

[@Lonovavir]

Everyone with opinions I don't like.

[@ghoulbuster1]

Every time.

[@Baldwin-iv445]

Definition of fascism: White southerners.

[@Rage_Harder_Then_Relax]

So you DO like fascism then? Is that what you're saying in trying to sound smart and smug?

[@Acesahn]

No, but I read this book that explained that everything I don't agree with is indeed fascism. Checkmate.

[@reecev2087]

This sentiment is unironically all too common on the internet. I hate sitting down for what seems like an interesting KZbin video essay, only for the narrator to start throwing around the word ‘fascist’ at everything they don’t like or gives off vaguely authoritarian vibes. It’s always such a braindead pseudo-intellectual take, and makes me no longer take them seriously in any light.

[@Acesahn]

@@reecev2087 Yea this funny anime video guy I watch lead with this exact book on fascism. I was very disappointed

[@the-letter_s]

you read? a _book? in current year?_

[@Acesahn]

@@the-letter_s *Is visibly sweating* Yes...

[@Rage_Harder_Then_Relax]

@@reecev2087 You're so intelligent.. 🙄😒

[@darktenor4967]

Just yesterday, a popular publishing company paid someone to write an article reviewing the Echo series from Marvel. In this article, the writer particularly praised the scene of first kingpinn, then Echo kicking the crap out of a white male ice cream vender, for the horrific crime of being slightly rude to Echo, the deaf, diverse woman. The female writer particularly praised the "emotions", of the scene, especially the pride shown by Kingpin, and how this showed the protagonist as a "complex person." I know for a fact, back in Germany in the thirties, there was plenty of popular media showing Jews and other such people the state didn't like being "put in their place", by the good German heroes. I've also seen many articles praising other scenes of white men being abused, or mistreated, indeed critical race theory tells us white people, and especially white men are basically born evil; there was a particular write up praising the horrific torture murder of Echeb in Startrek Picard season 1. And yet, the people behind these ideas are the first to call others racist, sexist, and even fascist! And to most loudly demand legal changes to promote the "right sort of people", over "the wrong sort of people", all in the name of "equity. Does this make these people, "fascist?" Probably not. Does it make for some very worrying similarities to the cultural dialogue of places like Germany in the thirties? Yes! As Mark twain said: history doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme!

[@RocketPropelledGuy]

Aldous Huxley summed this phenomenon up very succinctly "To be able to destroy with good conscience, to be able to behave badly and call your bad behavior 'righteous indignation' - this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats."

[@winterlantern5695]

Who won the 2nd World War? Who writes your history books and owns the media which makes lies into truth? If you can't understand that, you'll never stop them.

[@benjamintherogue2421]

That's because these people don't use language as a tool for communication, but as a weapon for destruction. They will be racist, sexist and evil, but they will always use language to blame their victims for it.

[@darktenor4967]

@@RocketPropelledGuy Not surprised Aldous Huxley, came out with this. Many wise people over the years have had similar sentiments, that when good is made evil and evil is made good, something is going seriously wrong! C S Lewis, English politician and Ethicist Mary Warnock, heck even Hans Christian Anderson, in the magic mirror at the start of the snow queen. For a truly frightening look at this, and one which feels more relevent as time goes on; especially with some of the things the just stop oil protesters get up to, check out Ray Bradberry's story "the smile." Ethicist Derik Parfit once said that however we may disagree on ethical theories, the primary yardstick for any ethical theory is whether it allows behaviour which is seen as immoral in purely universal human terms, his example was battering babies! And that many arguments over which moral theory is best often take the form of: "under this theory, behaviour x could be permitted!" I think it's pretty clear what Parfit would have to say about woke cancel culture.

[@underarmbowlingincidentof1981]

I mean it's an article written to garner as many clicks as possible...

[@divoulos5758]

"And when everyone is fascist...No one will be"

[@taliesinhalliday]

that's not how it works.

[@kapitankapital6580]

One thing I find fascinating about this topic is how the sort of ideology we see represented in Star Wars and the like (what you could call "Hollywood fascism") actually has very little in common with real fascist ideology beyond aesthetics. Almost universally, these regimes value order, they justify their terrible actions on the grounds that it prevents chaos. But that's not fascism. In fact fascists are more often than not a revolutionary force, fighting against what they perceive to be the status quo and malicious conspiracies and hidden powers that seek to destroy the group they identify with, either on racial, religious, cultural, traditional or some other grounds. If Palpatine read a book that inspired his actions, it would be Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan, not Mein Kampf. Tarkin has more in common with George Bush and the PATRIOT Act than he does with Benito Mussolini. The reason why these regimes are popular is because they play into the "liberty vs security" debate that lies at the heart of liberalism. It's no coincidence that many of the 80s works that influenced Warhammer 40k, Starship Troopers, Judge Dredd, Robocop, etc, are satires of political trends in 1980s America, not 1930s Germany. It's no secret that the reason we enjoy these properties is because they reflect something in our own society, a trend of (lower case) liberal authoritarianism that started in the 80s but has only accelerated in the 21st Century. But I guess why engage with that when you can go "hurr they look like Nazis that means they're bad" and think you're saying something profound?

[@MrBazBake]

Yeah, 1980's America was pretty fascist. Reagan funded right-wing paramilitaries, broke unions, and was one of only two countries at the end to back Apartheid South Africa.

[@kapitankapital6580]

@@MrBazBake being right wing is not the same as being fascist.

[@TheTeodorsoldierabvb]

I can't stop irking at the very fact so many people call the Imperium of Man fascist, when its a theocratic monarchy in values and principle, which also happens to be completely human-centric and militaristic.

[@Jupiter__001_]

​@@TheTeodorsoldierabvbIt's barely a monarchy, operating more as a simple theocracy. Not like the Emperor has much say in things. Anyway, it's even closer to being a collective term referring to a great number of nominally aligned human factions that pledge allegiance to the Emperor and to order.

[@TheTeodorsoldierabvb]

@@Jupiter__001_ Okay, you got point. The Holy Roman Empire in space but without so much infighting. But my point stands. There is nothing fascist in the Imperial Creed.

[@dareka9425]

When the Starship Troopers movie first came out I was just a teenager. For me it was just a cool scifi war movie with excellent special effects. I was a bit confused with the Nazi-like aesthetics used throughout the movie. The rich and care free civilian society in the movie jarringly clashed with the fascist undertone the director wants to convey. What kind of space Nazi outfit lets you freely quit the military anytime you want and allow religious fringe groups just go on out and colonize other parts of the galaxy?

[@Fernybun]

Um, the best damn space Nazi outfit in town!

[@Zxmegabomb]

​@@Fernybun This is a genuinely funny comment lmao

[@spacejunk2186]

> Has a knight avatar > Is a glorifying reference to the past > Which is nostalgia > Which is fascism Pilgrim Pass is a fascist confirmed!!!!

[@Captain_Eagle]

Fascism was influenced more by futurism than by traditionalism.

[@spacejunk2186]

@@Captain_Eagle I am meming

[@passchen-fail3704]

Excellent shitpost

[@andryuu_2000]

​@@Captain_Eagleit's in the middle

[@Raimundo1941]

00:25 dude MLP is 10000% fascist, or monarchist, at least. Ponies are ruled by literal God “Princesses” that control both day and night. Not even in your dreams can you escape their grasp!

[@Darth-Mariner]

based af

[@andryuu_2000]

Wish I lived there tbh

[@albusvoltavern4500]

Authoritarian? Yes. Fascist? Not even close.

[@thegoodolddays9193]

Do not conflate fascism and monarchism. Words have meaning. Monarchism and fascism only share that they are not democratic. They don't agree on anything from the role of the state, nationalism, or much of anything else except "how do people pick their leaders? They don't"

[@whitegoose2017]

​@@thegoodolddays9193 If you do not conform to the will of the state the fascists will make a law that will make it illegal to not conform. Yesterday I read an article about how all cats should be kept indoors and not allowed to roam and the initiative actually passed. That's just one more freedom of the citizen to be taken away by the state, to be criminalized. An enlightened autocrat would sign a bill in one moment and give this freedom back to the people and he'd be hailed a liberator.

[@aloadofbollocks988]

>makes fascism illegal >wont even let me enjoy fictional fascism

[@notapuma]

Fascism is the most evil thing EVUR. But ignore Communism, because it's sunshine and rainbows.

[@SoloRenegade]

none of the stories they call fascism, is fascism at all.

[@Reformed_Zuko]

Fascism will keep happening because we have gotten rid of every meaning way of congregating as human beings. All thats left is the centralized state to fall back on. Anyone who doesn't like hyperindividualism will have sympathies for fascism

[@Minority119]

makes me think of that one interview with one of the devs of the star wars tie fighter game that came out in recent years, where they said they purposefully downplayed the empire because they didn't want anyone finding "the space fascists cool"

[@Jimothy-723]

>uses facism to stop facism therfore anti facists are facists. this is the world we live in.

[@princeofruins3287]

This is what happens when the education sytem only teaches you history about ww2.

[@Lonovavir]

It doesn't even do that, the number of Americans who think Omaha was the only beach on D-Day is frightening.

[@underarmbowlingincidentof1981]

where did you go to school?

@@Lonovavir And worse have no clue where Omaha Beach even is, or even where a massive nation in Europe you can easily spot on a map is.

[@moongoalie2410]

The only thing they teach is who were the “bad guys”, who were the “victims”, and ultimately why you should always ally with the “victims”, no matter what. Forget about nuance, or if fascism or anything authoritarian should be necessary again, because that’s not main focus, only the “victims”. I can tell you that most Americans will only remember this above condensed history of WW2, (or the late 60s change cultural shift), than actual mathematics or geography.

[@Alexander-nc4vy]

@@moongoalie2410 High school history makes my brain rot.

[@xenophon5354]

You were one word away from rightfully dunking on the French (really Parisians). Liberalism, socialism, and fascism are indeed the 3 children of the 3 ideals of the Enlightenment: liberalism worships liberte, socialism worships egalite, fascism worships fraternate. Liberte, egalite, fraternate, the founding principles of the French Revolution.

[@jjhh320]

People seem to worship the French Revolution, not knowing how it devolved into a bunch of craziness and paranoia. I haven't been able to put a finger to how it helped to breed a lot of issues, but thanks for laying it out.

[@PilgrimsPass]

indeed, I noticed that while editing and added that on screen lol.

[@xenophon5354]

@@PilgrimsPassAhhh I’m a listener, missed it.

[@MrCmon113]

That's a funny trope, but you shouldn't take it too seriously. Fascists often had no problem with monarchy, socialists made a lot of their policies leading to freedom and early liberals like John Locke claimed that God owned humans as property.

[@leirbag798]

@@MrCmon113 Socialism and freedom in the same phrase? That doesn't seem right

[@sphinxmoth8113]

About furry-fascism: there is such movement in post-Soviet countries. This movement is headed by Eugen Babaev (@DEGRASTREAM), known to his followers as Vozhdia ("Chief" or "Leader"). And what is even more absurd, is that Eugen himself is a jew of African descent.

[@NickV-ez4be]

Вождя нада многа булка. Падпещики идти за море говорить о вождя

[@ARStudios2000]

What the fu k

[@Deliverygirl]

Do not read what Karl Marx wrote about Lassalle.

[@JustaWorker-oz9jp]

Тсссс, нельзя такое говорить, а то Вождь призовет Веселого Волка, и ты окажешься в Эбеньграде

[@MiArDm]

О боже, весть о Бабае Израильском добралась и сюда... Неужели Олег воскрес-таки? Или кто-то из палестинских детей из его подвала бежал????

[@NagaTales]

Thank you very much for laying it out so clearly and thoroughly. Authoritarianism is not fascism. Militarism is not fascism. Collectivism is not fascism. Totalitarianism isn't fascism. Masculine-centric values are not fascism. Traditionalism is not fascism. Nationalism isn't fascism. Patriotism isn't fascism. And no combination of the above is necessarily fascism either. It is the complete set of principles and ideologies behind these "-isms" that makes fascism, fascism.

[@JoaoGabriel-gh2rg]

Tradionalism is even agaisnt it

[@alpacalover0]

Organicism is a very important component as well. No Fascist is a Fascist without the belief that the group they are part of is a natural entity that they're fighting on behalf of.

[@nottheonlydreamer9512]

Correct. The redefining of fascism to essentially encompass any form of masculinity and patriotism has been the patient work of leftist and feminist academics since the 60s. We the public have collectively let them succeed at that.

[@dansmith16]

Humanity for thousands of years are literal Fascism.@@JoaoGabriel-gh2rg

[@Sweeptheleg83]

​@@nottheonlydreamer9512that's because most of them were socialists and they've been trying to distance themselves from Fascism ever since. It's like a Jedi mind trick. They know Fascism and Communism come from the same tree ( just different branches). But they have to make it like their opposite ends of the spectrum, which makes no sense.

[@Lauren007E]

Media literally has really degenerated at such a rapid rate Im legit amazed it happened so suddenly

I think to keep up with the internet, the MSM took the route of gossip rags and BS lizard people paranoia media to the extreme and wove it into real news stories and entertainment.

[@m.c.martin]

Social Media being the reason isn’t that shocking to me

[@plebisMaximus]

And we're all collectively to blame for letting shitty media still thrive.

[@va1hk]

Media literacy has always been really bad, you have just seen more of it because things like the internet and influential positions such as "journalist" are not hard to achieve anymore, therefore the common folk have a big voice and the common folk are stupid.

[@AKUJIVALDO]

Ah yes, I wonder who owns MSM...

[@LamborghiniDiabloSVPursuit]

I think the most hilarious thing about people claiming everything is fascist, is that if you put an actual pro-facism quote infront of them, and do not cite the source: more of then than not, they'll agree with it.

[@cptndunsel2670]

Most of these people who are terrified of fascism agree with other collectivists philosophies, which are cut from the same cloth as fascism.

[@hyperion3145]

Hell, just show the declaration of the Sansepolcristi and they might support it... Until they realize that was the foundation for Fascism.

[@tigerm8969]

Yes, because in reality all fasist regimes were twisted monster versions. Fascism is really fucked up, its such a shame, that they are revived recently. They are hateful mregimes, my country has been also crippled by one, and i fucking hate americans talking mad shit, like fascism isnt that bad, well mate suck my ass, you dont know shit.

[@tigerm8969]

I mean... it does not really gets called out, but attack on titan really has some fucked up government, resembling fascist governments. Both sides, actually. Or its not even fascism, no. Marley is like a weird mix of communism and nazism, claiming, that there is a ulterior race, the eldians. In a different light, they were the previous rulers, the "royals", who were overthrew by the common people. So it also has the tendencies of a communist movement. Tho just as in irl communist regimes, in reality, it does not result in equality. Moreover, the eldian yeagerist government technically could be the aot version of fascism, except its much fucked up, that irl fasist states. Like they took the definition of ethnic cleansing to another level. They are more like nazis, than fascists. Its obviously hard to call them fascists, because we hardly know anything about their actual policies, we only know a limited part of their ideology, which really makes them look scary. It's an authoritarian regime, with overly patriotic tendencies, so if we are lazy, we indeed could call them fascists. Lets just call them yeagerists, which is way worse, than any label like fascist or conservative.

[@reinertgregal1130]

@@tigerm8969 Pff, then you can just call the rest of history until 4000 BC fascist.

[@igooog]

Starship Troopers: "Ah, yes, the fascist governments are well known for," *checks notes* "... actively dissuading their populations from serving the state." 40k: "Ah, yes, the fascist governments are well known for," *checks notes* "... exercising almost zero centralized control over their constituent realms."

[@goliathsteinbeisser3547]

The Imperium of Man is only decentralised to the extent it is due to the limits of administrative capacity. WH40K is a very complex and interesting case in terms of political systems, but who cares about nuance?

[@slalehc5194]

Oh really my friend you will get killed in less than a second in 40k if you say you don't worship the emperor and as a small reminder slavery is ok in the imperium even in the time of the emperor

[@nukesRus123]

1. Let's not pretend 40k doesn't have fascist elements, it does. 2. SST (the movie) literally opens with a 1 to 1 recreation of nazi propaganda urging civilians to "do their part". It's blatantly disingenuous to suggest the state is dissuading people from service. Not to mention that by through the use of the troopers as fodder they can control the voting population. If you were to take the government in SST and play fascist bingo your card would be almost completely full.

[@chillyavian7718]

@@goliathsteinbeisser3547for Warhammer, who cares about nuance is a very funny question, because everything in Warhammer exists so that there are a bunch of different people who all want each other dead and have massive armories to use. Who cares about nuance, there is only war. Ps. Not disagreeing with you, just found it a bit funny

[@MrTigracho]

@@goliathsteinbeisser3547 The joke here is that WH 40K was made in a way that it does not seek to be treated with nuance.

[@felizeumida4374]

Fascism is an outdated word, the philosophers of it were both leftist syndicalists like Sergio Panunzio and rightist nationalists like Enrico Corradini who united on the idea that a modern state had to unite all classes into one national corpus. Mussolini was a socialist before Fascism. The cultural impact this had was it further interweaved and established a common Italian identity after the Risorgimento unification movement, as well as allowing centralised economic organisation to compete against Britain and France and America who were plundering rural Italy with their industrial economies. In this sense it was very much like the new-deal modernisation of America during the 30s but more focused on creating a new group identity. Obviously when someone today calls something "Fascist", what they're trying to do is say it's racist and authoritarian and that both those things lead to genocide and mass death which is bad, but failing to understand what Fascism was trying to do (both in Italy and Germany) it results in a debasement of the accusation as things as simple as white people strolling in the woods are dubbed fascist and white supremacist. You can read more about the history of fascism in Mussolini's Intellectuals by A. James Gregor. Eren genocided people, which is bad (arguably :P) but that doesn't make him analogous to Hitler. He's more like a murderous Alexander the Great defending Greece from the Persians if any comparison is to be made. Edit: not thankful for the likes, feed me with your comment wars.

[@user-ee2vt7yi3m]

you sorta lost me on the point of calling what germany did fascism but mostly make sense, I'd only add that georges sorel was an influence too, although sorel influenced all the violent socialist political movements

[@SkipBaley-hb6nc]

It’s always funny when I hear that when Hitler himself was constantly moving towards his desire of his socialist utopia up until his death. Textbook doctrine of fascism is not what Nazi Germany was. Objectively. It’s not really surprising though, since most people hate nuance when it doesn’t support their preconceived biases. It’s much easier to say, “Authoritarianism is fascism.” And not realize that applies to all predominantly socialist countries that have ever existed.

[@felizeumida4374]

@@user-ee2vt7yi3m Yeah Gregor mentions Sorel first and foremost for his divergence from the main stream of leftism at the time

[@augustuslunasol10thapostle]

@@SkipBaley-hb6nc proof? We literally have records of hitler deciding to only put socialist in his parties name because it was popular with people.

[@MidlifeCrisisJoe]

Look, people don't actually understand theory. If they did, they'd know that Fascism outshoots from Socialism. That it's the evolved form of it, and they would look at leftists with much more fear. But that's dangerous to leftists and they control media and culture, so they turned fascists into a bogeyman term of "bad guy," and it's worked for coming on a hundred years now.

[@memeticvs6017]

Feels like a weird psy-op to get people fed up and just go: "Yes, it's fascist. I like it. Now go the f away.." It's like, the throwing around of this word has the opposite effect- It dilutes the meaning and context of it. Wouldn't that be a way of facilitating the thing they're scared of?

[@rdubayoo]

I feel like you're on to something. I feel like our modern tyrants do want people to see fascism as a viable alternative. However, they are not promoting fascism to help it, but in the hopes of creating their own easily blamed boogeyman that they can then destroy.

[@funveeable]

Nowadays you get called a Nazi if you don't support Jews getting massacred by Arabs.

[@plebisMaximus]

Yea, but they don't seem to get that. Lots of important and potentially dangerous labels are losing their meaning these days thanks to this blatant disregard for proper discourse. Funny how much this feels like a repeat of the environment that lead to the rise of fascism in the first place.

[@Rootiga]

Funny how they do this with fascist, but make many other words "big nono words" that nobody can say which is doing the exact opposite lol

[@andryuu_2000]

It's right wing accellerationism

[@ralphsexton8531]

The biggest issue with the Vulcan philosophy of "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few," is that it MUST be the few that decide to make that sacrifice. If so, it is noble, but if not, it is tyrannical. But everyone that I see referencing this phrase misses that point.

[@JohnM-sw4sc]

Because it ultimately doesn’t matter - if your societies moral outlook believes in the concept truly - you would be willing to use both force and altruism - either way the rule is followed

[@brianpembrook9164]

A society that has such a philosophy will vary likely shun the few who don't. Especially if those few cannot prove the sacrifice wasn't needed. The difference between the two are largely academic in that regard.

[@Herstal8389]

"Starship Troopers is fascist! They are a militarist regime and genociding space bugs!" "Thats, why I love them"

[@AkuTenshiiZero]

The irony is that it's not even militarist. It only seems so because the story is from a military perspective. To the wider world of Starship Troopers, military service is seen as something ridiculous that only vain fools do.

[@DesertStateInEU]

@@AkuTenshiiZero I recommend everybody watch the video The Politics Of Starship Troopers that Sargon of Akkad did a few years back. Shortly, the director of the movie paul verhoeven had no clue what fashism is and just wanted to create some anti-fashist movie.

[@ZainAhmad-jl4vt]

@@DesertStateInEU sargon is a right wing pig himself, stop watching that guy.

[@DangerB0ne]

​@@AkuTenshiiZeroFederal Service was also the only way to get the franchise to vote. You had to serve the Body Politic be allowed a voice in the Body Politic. Mind you, the book outlines that the military isn't the only way to do that, any service to the Federation would grant you voting rights, the time needed in service was different. A terraformer on Venus would need to serve for 10 or more years whereas a single stint in the Mobile Infantry would suffice.

[@ajalvarez3111]

I’m a fascist… “I have a job…and health insurance.”

[@saeyabor]

Fascism is such a boogeyman for all other types of authoritarian leftists, because it's a misbehavior of their ideal state. My favorite point you made in this video is the one about the strawman-usage making Fascism enticing, because you're just so right it's scary. By conflating Fascism with traditionalism to the point of granting it ownership of tradition, irresponsible leftists are stupidly *_MARKETING IT_*_ to otherwise-impressionable young men who've already irrevocably rejected them._

[@ambasutori9053]

Its only Liberals though conflate it with traditionalism only and reject any genuine left-wing analysis based on class?

[@andryuu_2000]

Stalin and China are more fascist than communist for sure

[@MiArDm]

No, it's not? I can't even think about where are you getting this statements from, but there is no such thing as just "authoritarian leftist". There are marxists, baasist, Chuchheists and so on. There are no single entity in what you want to call that, so it's just non-existent thing. If you want to know, what marxists think about state and rights of the people-you should read some real marxists and shouldn't judge about them by what some media say, this same thing is true for any other kind of ideology. Again, their views is defined and it's nowhere near "fascist". Antihierarchy, people's democracy, universal right for free healthcare, free education, large social services, abolishment of the private property and any kind of discrimination etc...

[@Foreign0817]

"Thomas was just following orders." 👁👁

[@tau-5794]

Things weren't perfect in Sodor under Il Hatte, but the trains always ran on time.

[@Foreign0817]

@@tau-5794 We're just ruining people's childhoods. 😅

[@eshin2951]

ethereal snake

[@Lonovavir]

Judge Dredd: I knew you'd say that. *Double whammy*

[@Navarothravenheart2688]

As a reactionary monarchist: it's nice to hear that someone understands that fascism/national socialism are NOT ideologies similar to traditionalism in any of its forms. Actually, I don't need to elaborate further on why, because the presented analysis is so solid.

[@ZainAhmad-jl4vt]

fascism is a much better defined ideology than "reactionary monarchist". You are a fascist, a really dumb one

[@acendiatmedia8747]

Traditionalism isn't an actual ideology. Monarchism certainty is but traditionalism is simply preservation of traditions and is entirely dependent on where and when it is being applied.

[@jrconway3]

@@acendiatmedia8747 Agreed. I tend to have serious disagreements with some traditions but agree on others. My opinion is: we should study why traditions have happened, what the reason is, and whether the traditions were good or bad. What the purpose of these traditions were. Did straying from said traditions make us better or worse? And in the context of Christianity: are said traditions Biblical to begin with? If they're not Biblical, that doesn't inherently make them bad, but we need to be careful when approaching them. (Which is why I still continue to reject Catholicism.) Traditionalism could also be argued as being similar to Conservatism in a way. Conservatism is trying to preserve something, but what it is exactly you're trying to conserve depends on the person. Both are opposed directly by Progressivism which only cares about "progressing" and ANY sort of belief against this, going back to anything that came before because perhaps we did something better in the past, is a complete and total affront to progressive dogma. Under Progressivism, we must be good because we are always progressing in a better way over time. Nothing Progressivism pushes can possibly have any sort of negative outcomes, after all, its Progress, right?!

[@Muljinn]

I don’t remember the full quote, but it was on the necessity of keeping the military and the politicians tied together. Because to separate them would eventually mean that you’d have your thinking done by cowards and your fighting done by fools. [looks around] …oh.

[@PilgrimsPass]

“The nation that will insist on drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking done by cowards.” ― William Francis Butler, in his 1907 biography Charles George Gordon (page 85).

[@AthEE_One]

@@PilgrimsPass OP's comment woefully misinterprets this quote's implication, though. Even then, a full half of its implications are still very disagreeable.

[@TheOsamaBahama]

@@PilgrimsPass How would you say the United States stands on this? The US has a history of veterans becoming politicians. But the active military stays out of politics. And they are the most powerful nation in the history of the world.

[@fourmoyle]

What do YOU think would happen if military went on to lead a country? *looks at history*

[@xenophon5354]

@@fourmoyleMilitary men either govern or are at the behest of those who govern. I would prefer they have the responsibility of government, rather than function as tools for the merchant-minded or bureaucrats, who are abstracted away from violence. I see little reason to believe having your government comprised of non military men, especially those not part of an aristocracy, prevents war. *looks at history*

[@RachelRichards]

I'm so happy someone recommended this channel to me. It's infinitely better than the "conservatives" reacting to Tiktok videos.

[@hebercluff1665]

Conservatives and progressives making reaction videos of each others' content is cringey. Usually.

[@federationprime]

“Conservatives” don’t ever push back, they just espouse the views of their enemies from an election cycle ago, and have always been just another cog in the diminutive headwear political machine.

[@federationprime]

Ah cool my comment about conservatives being complicit in the activities of subterranean Noo Yurk residents got filtered.

[@RachelRichards]

​@@federationprime- So did this one. I wonder if KZbin is censoring you.

[@federationprime]

@@RachelRichards seems like they are. I’m not surprised, or mad, just tired of it.

[@Dharengo]

I love the fact that Paul Verhoeven was absolutely convinced that Starship Troopers was about fascism yet so utterly failed to portray fascism in his own adaptation of it. It really made me reconsider my respect for the guy. I mean he made some good movies, but my view on him is far more nuanced now.

[@wyssmaster]

"Starship Troopers was a disgustingly fascist book!" "Did you finish the book, Paul?" "Of course not! What am I, a fascist?!"

[@BattleBro77]

​@@wyssmaster *proceeds to burn book*

[@sovietunion7643]

it also just kinda showed to much of the good sides of the military unity and hyper nationalism of fascism without any of the corruption, real oppression or inefficiency of totalitarian regimes.

[@ssilent8202]

Calling Star Trek “San Francisco in space” is probably the single most accurate description I’ve ever heard in all my life

[@the_canadianreaper]

An example of this stupidity is that the flag of the German Empire, a monarchist symbol, is misremembered as a Nazi flag.

[@jonatanedgren9522]

I mean the nazis did use that flag during their reign. It is not like people dislike that flag for no reason. And the german empire was not that great either.

[@the_canadianreaper]

@@jonatanedgren9522 All true, but it's still not a Nazi flag.

[@jonatanedgren9522]

@@the_canadianreaper yeah I get what you mean. Just another thing the nazis destroyed

[@newguy8288]

@@jonatanedgren9522it depends really. Some Germans sought the Imperial Flag as remeberance of the “good ol days” when they had a colonial empire and where a respected/feared Great power. But other Germans, specially the main advocates of Nazism, disliked the Imperials for basically fumbling the bag and losing WW1, blaming the incompetence of the monarchy that failed to propel the German people. While they did use the Imperial lands as claims for expansion it was more so a help rather than a belief in the greatness of Imperial Germany for them, some Germans wanted to achieve greater heights through a new up-and-coming ideology that would help them take over the world. It’s an interesting thing to analyze tbh

[@yanivproselkov1025]

On the one hand, yes, but on the other hand, the often illegality of using the Nazi swastika has led to many using proxy symbols, such as the Celtic cross, or related symbols, like the German Imperial flag. How does one distinguish genuine inaccuracy from a dogwhistle?

[@Error-mn4el]

Templin Institute shouldnt be taken seriously anyway, by their own word the content on their channel is just fan fiction because "there is no such thing as canon" also, great video

[@anonymouseovermouse1960]

Funny how people who tend to accuse others of fascism etc willy-nilly also just so happen to believe really strongly in that "death of the author" -line of thinking lol

[@publiusventidiusbassus1232]

@@anonymouseovermouse1960 Deconstructionists are masters of intellectual dishonesty and cognitive dissonance. They will defend their positions and tactics under the claim that they're for a better development of societal values and/or helping teach responsible media literacy, but once you point a serious inconsistency or moral hypocrisy in their talking points, they'll just disengage in a flood of gaslighting and passive-aggressive personal attacks.

[@anonymouseovermouse1960]

@@publiusventidiusbassus1232 Exactly, that's what it boils down to. Insidious. The absurd term of "woke mind virus" remains, absurdly, very accurate for this shit. A toolset for bypassing pesky details such as morals and consequences, with he help of confirmation bias and sophistry, all the while convincing oneself (and others) of the sole right of one's personal opinions to exist, in exclusion to others.

[@TheNinjaGumball]

Fascism is an economic and political system deriving its name from the Italian word for fasces, meaning bundle, in reference to the workers unions which functioned in a similar role to the soviets of the Soviet Union. In essence, it's basically just syndicalism, or a close variant thereof. The reason Fascism and Nazism are lumped together, and neither are understood in their proper context and function as political and economic systems is because of lingering wartime propaganda and decades of academia refusing to acknowledge their relations to other collectivist systems.

[@knightheaven8992]

Absolutely

[@jebe4563]

Commie's blaming everyone else for their antics? No clearly that much be yet another OP by the Time Traveling CIA Cyber Ninjas.

[@mobbs6426]

Can't believe it's taken me this long to notice, but if we were to translate it correctly, I probably wouldn't be allowed to write it on KZbin. A bundle of sticks isn't a fasces, it's a f****t. We dont need to keep speaking Italian, we have our own etymology we can follow. Gonna raise this point to every fascist I come across

[@John-fk2ky]

@@mobbs6426 In the UK, that's the term. I've never seen or heard a single word used to mean a "bundle of sticks" in the US besides literally "bundle of sticks", and I've lived there all my life.

[@sercravenmohead3631]

Yeah Germany’s national socialism was infact straight up socialism while it didn’t seek to eliminate class it was the collectivist movement of race.

[@Greiffenhorst]

It’s facist that my doctor tells me I need to lose weight to prevent getting diabetes

[@DaveShap]

Man, you have some of the best thoughtful takes on stuff, I have no idea why you don't have more subscribers. Happy to talk sometime if you want.

[@PilgrimsPass]

Thank you that would be great :)

[@Eneeki]

Thank you for being so clear about Starship Troopers. It is annoying how clueless people are about it's political system.

[@Ютубводоканал]

Yes, if majority of state poplation don't have right to vote and be elected, it's clearly liberal democracy.

[@CantusTropus]

Very true, though one could argue that even under this definition, the Imperium of Man as it exists on paper actually does qualify as a fascist state, or at least something similar (and this is coming from a fan of the setting). The Imperium claims absolute and unquestioned authority over the entire human race, as well as all aspects of human life. It doesn't actually exercise that level of control in day-to-day life (entire planets are often left to do as they please so long as they pay taxes), but that's purely a matter of practicality; the State is not capable of micromanaging such a large empire. Let's compare it to the Five Tenets: 1)The Emperor's original vision was exactly the creation of a New Man For The New Galaxy, a surprisingly straightforward attempt to turn Mankind into demigods living in an eternal golden Utopia. 2)The Imperium has always been ruled under a single party system - any competing authority is crushed mercilessly. Lore nerds may point out the Emperor's plan for the Senatorum Imperialis, which was a democratic body he supposedly intended to hand over power to after the Great Crusade was finished, but I've never taken that idea seriously. The idea that the multi-millennia old supergenius actually believed that Congress would work much better if there were literally a million Congressmen is unbelievably stupid, so I think it was always meant as a rubber-stamp body. Even if he did intend to carry out this idiotic plan, he would inevitably seize power again the second they made a decision that he disagreed with. He would never have allowed them to ruin his Big Plan. 3)The Emperor's original plan for the Imperium is almost straightforwardly Progressive March To The Future stuff - "We will bring Mankind into a New Golden Age through Reason and Science". It was thus inevitably tied up in the idea of constantly-increasing State power (though it would view this as the Power of Mankind). 4)Uniformity - the Imperium turns the entire *human race* into a group identity that it enforces with an iron fist. Everyone who isn't human is the Enemy (albeit many of the aliens are genuinely hostile, but still, being peaceful wouldn't save them). Anyone who deviates too far from the "correct" human genome is ostracised at best or killed at worst. Anyone who doesn't agree with the Emperor's way of thinking or doing things is ruthlessly crushed. Anyone who gets in the way of the Emperor's Big Plan is ruthlessly crushed. This attitude existed even before Big E started to be worshipped as a God, and afterwards it became explicit, codified religious dogma. 5)Everything inside the State, nothing outside the State - absolutely. The Imperium views itself as the rightful ruler of all humanity. It does not recognise anything as being beyond its authority.

[@PilgrimsPass]

I agree but this would be the 30K Imperium which i get more conviced was actually fascist the more I think about it. As I alluded to in the extended version of this essay on Substack. But 40K imperium is definetly a post-modern neo-medieval society after the failiure of the Emperor's original vision. That's how I understand it though. Thank you for commenting.

[@MineralTrainer]

Well, the thing is that the existence of the Adeptus Mechanicus, being an authority outside the Imperial state, goes against the LETTER of the fifth condition. But I consider this as something null, since for most of them, the Emperor is the Omnissiah and the leader of the Cult does part of the High Lords of Terra.

[@ezekyleabbadon9555]

You rise a well thought out points but I must disagree with some of it. 4)Uniformity - The Imperium is not particularly uniform. Guards regiments are the best showcase of this. The Scintillan Fusiliers and the Death Korps stand in stark contrast to one another, as do the Catachan and Mordians. One of their codexs (I believe 6th) mentions commissars being responsible for ensuring cultural tensions are not allowed to fester. While you can say there is an overarching Imperial culture they are very distinct subcultures within it that are accepted as apart of humanity. Their collective identity as human is a product of their environment more so then an enforced idea. Sure That prior mentioned Mordian may not get along with the Catachan fellow next to him but their differences all of a sudden do not mean very much when the big green murder mushroom, esoteric pointy ear that speaks in riddles, the same thing but more into rape, world eating building sized exogalactic bug monster and the literal deamon show up. 5)Everything inside the State, nothing outside the State - There are elements outside of the state. The Astartes and Custodes are both outside of the state, as are rouge traders. The Astartes in particular exercise enjoy a large degree of autonomy outside the direct control of the state.

[@e.corellius4495]

i would say that in 40k, the imperium is a theocratic authoritarian oligarchy for the majority of stories. anything post guilliman coming back would be more theocratic autocracy though.

[@yanivproselkov1025]

@@ezekyleabbadon9555I hesitate to say that this uniformity isn't sought after, however - the Imperial Cult has highly specific and all encompassing dogma that is allowed to be defied purely on practical, never ideological grounds. When there is sufficient disruption of order by this variation, and I'm not talking just the taint of Chaos, but xeno cooperation, abhuman recognition, laxity in puritanism, and in cases where administration is possible and economical, this is met with furious apocalyptic retribution. Regarding the astartes and custodes. these are only external to the state upon their ascension to the ideal man in service to the state. They are mostly above reproach because they are assumed to be the perfect servants. One could say this is evidence of a fascist state that has achieved its goals.

[@OverwatchTheProtogen]

12:14 to answer the question, yes fascist furry's do in fact exist (they are called Nazi-furs). the furry fandom is quite diverse... a bit too diverse...

[@VladOS_Ur]

Heh. I seen some crazy space furry fascists fiction.

[@mahanonbr8002]

Tô cansado de ser chamado de fascista por gostar de várias das obras que são chamadas de fascistas sem motivo.

[@danielabobora6236]

hahaha achei outro br assistindo o video igual eu kkkkkk

[@mahanonbr8002]

@@danielabobora6236 aqui tá cheio de br. Por isso comento em português.

[@techpriest6962]

Basically means you aren't a communist these days, take it as a compliment.

[@mahanonbr8002]

@@techpriest6962 fair enough.

[@joem.9256]

"Intelectuais" e suas consequências no discurso politico moderno foram um desastre para a raça humana

[@MrJack1992]

Unironically leftists calling everything fascist will make people want to be fascist. Like if 40k cool anime and etc... Are fascist and the parents who are like little Timmy can't play/watch that because it's fascist do people seriously not expect people to want to be fascist because it's verboten.

[@user-df4kf6fg7h]

It's the mirror image of some right-wingers calling everything communist. Then you end up with little Timmy growing up believing "communism" means free healthcare and education and going "wait, that's bad how?".

[@Scowleasy]

Leftists aren’t calling everyone fascist.

[@RileyLewis-j2w]

I've been warning of a actual Fascist backlash as a radical response to the Stalinist Brutality of the Left, The "Right" has no real core identity and is more or less just a bunch of milk toast fence sitters...People who crave force will look to ideologies that provide it...

[@ghoulbuster1]

Anime Fascist rise up and claim your waifus for the Imperium!

[@RileyLewis-j2w]

@@ghoulbuster1 Sister of Battle thighssssssssss

[@bigtony4930]

Anyone who calls Robert Heinlein a fascist has only ever watched the movie.

[@eidolon1426]

Anyone who calls the movie fascist has never watched the movie.

[@myt110]

A writer’s essay on the evils of fascism on the eastern side of the iron curtain was censored by the state because it looked too much like a critique of communism. Enough said.

[@xiiir838]

Name? Want to read about that

[@JACCO20082012]

I was on reddit a few months ago arguing this exact thing with someone who was calling something fascist and to support my argument I went to get the dictionary definition and found that it's been changed to be oddly specific to the Current Thing. We are literally being gaslit by academia on what fascism (and who knows how many other words) is. It was very jarring and scary to realize they are literally changing definitions of words to suit their ideology and give them themselves ammunition to use in the culture war.

[@masoodvoon8999]

Yeah good luck getting your point across to people not in your tribe nowadays. Alt-right and neocon, for example, have now completely different definitions from their originals. The left created new meanings for the words to serve their political ends, the dictionaries now use the new definitions, and even conservatives use them.

[@e.corellius4495]

its not the only word either. they will make their narrative fit if they have to redo the entire language. theyve already changed countless things. like the definition of racism now is about power balance, so that you cant be racist for hating all white people. genuinely want to kill all white people just for the color of their skin? well thats not racism by current definition. its absolute madness.

[@domerame5913]

what are you talking about lmao, academics are pearl-clutching when somebody uses the term fascism in a modern context. I'm not sure how a dictionary definition is relevant.

[@ZainAhmad-jl4vt]

>I got proven wrong so the entire acedemia must be wrong, I can never be wrong!!!! cope

[@BattleBro77]

​@@ZainAhmad-jl4vt pdf file

[@robfromjersey7899]

Starship Troopers: A book which has nothing to do with Fascism, being turned into an anti-fascist movie, by a director who doesn't know what fascism is.

[@Lonovavir]

The film is misaimed satire because Paul Verhoven didn't read the book.

[@rythe24]

@@Lonovavireven the movie doesn’t qualify as fascist. At no point does the government try and force its will on anyone. The colonists as advised to not settle on the planet in bug space, but not forbidden from doing so. Also, the Fleet Admiral resigns after the disaster our invasion of Klendathu. Neither of these things would happen in a fascist state.

[@MrBazBake]

Paul Verhoeven tried to read the book but was so disgusted by the fascism he recognized from his childhood under Nazi occupation that he couldn't finish. The screenwriter read the book.

[@moongoalie2410]

Well that’s every liberal in the film industry. It should be known that Hollywood has always been notorious for taking very complex subjects and dumbing them down to the audience. It’s up to the people to have the intelligence to know when something is exaggerated or historical incorrect, but directors know full well how effective propaganda works. If you dare to disapprove it, you’ll end up looking crazy for trying.

[@IceNinja2007]

​@@MrBazBake Paul is delusional, because SST is the absolute opposite of Fascist. In fact, it's a dramatization of a Libertarian "Utopia" where interactions with the State itself are almost entirely optional.

[@masterofrockets]

I’m so glad you brought this up! One of my favorite podcasts is covering Starship Troopers soon

[@masterofrockets]

The Lost drive-in! If anyone care lol

[@UndrState]

@@masterofrockets - I will check it out .

[@arsnova261]

The bigger Problem i see with all this is that the actual word facism, due to being thrown around like candy, loses its horror.

[@hyperion3145]

You make a great point about how often the founders of Fascism aren't often taken at their word when they proclaim themselves as modern, progressive, revolutionary ideologies. I got into a debate with a socialist who argued that Italian Fascism was not based off of socialist theories that had come before and was entirely unrelated... The problem is that Mussolini, Gentile and the other heads of Fascism fairly consistently talked about how they were socialists, based off of Sorel's late socialism, and even saw themselves as the modern successor to socialism. Capitalism was supposed to give way to socialism, which falls to the newer Fascism, which is more modern and supposedly superior. Every time I hear about Fascism's roots in the Enlightenment and socialism, it's handwaived as a lie or "coopting" and not that the Fascists were actually socialists or inspired. This also causes the same effect as the disillusioned young person seeking tradition falling into Fascism except the person is a disillusion socialist and sees Fascism as a modern ideology that solves their problem. Which happens a lot... Hell, that's why Fascism exists. Sorel was disillusioned by socialism, endorsed nationalism and authoritarianism as a way to preserve the revolution, and could only disown it when it was too late. It's really irresponsible to reduce Fascism into this nebulous boogeyman.

[@gmodrules123456789]

The socialist inspiration was only two parts. Fascism retained the revolutionary character, and the rejection of bourgeois politics. Beyond that, it didn't keep anything from Marxism. Fascism wasn't concerned with class or economics. It was purely concerned with the nation and its power.

[@catalysts94]

@@gmodrules123456789 marx isn't the sole definition of socialism.

[@scorpioneldar]

​@@gmodrules123456789 you are correct that it didn't keep much from MARX because as the OP noted it drew from SOREL not from MARX. MARX wasn't a Socialist. he created MARXISM which ironically he wasn't even for. his book was a warning for the ruling class to rule better not a guide for the revolution. the revolution was the threat to motivate better behavior.

[@IdleWorker]

This is such a retarded take. Socialism has nothing to do with fascism. Socialism was supposed to create an equal society for everyone in the world, and do so through a world revolution against an extremely oppressive capitalist society that it was back then. it failed horribly, but comparing socialism to fascism is like saying orange juice and cucumbers are the same thing because they contain water. Fascism was ALL about overthrowing whatever the ruling power was at the time, to implement a new ruling minority class based on their specific group of people, and exclude everyone else from society that didnt fit the nationalists arbitrary idea of "superior human", and they believed that "their people" were the rightful rulers of the entire world, hence the inevitable attempt to expand their empires. The other part of fascism was conservatism, they were extremely conservative and wanted men to be the "leaders" and "warriors" of society and women to essentially just be walking wombs smiling happily at the side of a man. Any deviation from traditional societal norms were completely forbidden. This is the opposite of what socialists wanted. Economically, fascism was extremely capitalist, they did mass privatizations (which you know, is again the opposite of what socialists wanted. Thing is that fascists didnt really care about HOW the economy was run, only WHO ran it. State run institution? Fine, just make sure it's run by "our people" and only benefit "our people". Private run competing companies? Great, as long as it is run by "Our people". The only accurate definition of fascism is conservative nationalism. It is true that people throw it out to everything and everyone because noone understands what fascism is, but it is only accurately thrown out against conservative nationalists. Like trump, orban, putin, erdogan, bolsonaro, and all the other shitbag right wing parties all over the world.

[@ascina]

@@gmodrules123456789 good

[@sorcerous8401]

How the hell do you go through this much effort and research for a video and dont list sources to find this stuff? It just makes it harder for people wanting to find out this stuff for their own

[@PilgrimsPass]

You are absolutely correct. So I added them in the description. Hopefully it has what you were looking for.

[@Tehz1359]

I hate discussing fascism. I'm not a fascist myself, but there is so much ignorance around it. It's infuriating really. People seem incapable of being adults when it comes to fascism, it's almost always bad faith. Read the damn material, it exists. Giovanni Gentile's writings are very interesting. It will dispel any notions of fascism being about "oppressing an out group" or being authoritarian for the sake of it, or even being totally traditionalist. It's a fully developed political philosophy. It has it's issues, but literally no one understands it.

[@PilgrimsPass]

Its Hegelianism taken further in my opinion, and though it may sound beautiful on paper its when people try putting it into practice that things get very complicated. That's the number one problem with philosophy. Anything can sound interesting and relatively harmless when its just in theory. That's why the academic tendency of theorizing the ideal political system can be such a problem and I'm one of those guys who believes that the Praxis should come first and you theorize about why it worked later, if it worked.

[@Tehz1359]

@@PilgrimsPass I was referring to both in theory and in practice when I said people don't understand it. A lot could come from a discussion on the merits in yielded in practice, and I'm not afraid to say it, there were plenty, but also plenty of mistakes. But people aren't ready for that conversation. It's a hard position to dispute on grounds of it not working, unlike communism. For the most part, the fascists did exactly what they said they were going to do, and got the results they were looking for. It mostly has to do with moral qualms, which are reasonable and important.

[@passchen-fail3704]

Remember when Twitter was bought out, you had journalists saying free speech online was fascist? This feels a lot like that to me.

[@viscountrainbows2857]

The irony is black hole heavy when one considers that in a remotely fascist society, talking mess on it, either online or in person, would have them muzzled. Instead, it is them doing the muzzling, because apparently fascism, or whatever their idea of it is, is so compelling and sexy that people only need hear a taste of it to be turned. And they wonder why we deem their actions duplicitous, hypocritical, and dare I say, fascistic in their own right.

[@johnrex7108]

The Templin Institute makes my skin crawl, too.

[@LordHighTorturer]

For real.

[@AmericanImperium1776]

The Templin Institute was great when they had the woman voicing the videos, but she left unfortunately.

[@jjhh320]

@@AmericanImperium1776 he probably weirded her out lol she went to do some project with spacedock and TI got mad over her seperating over it

[@AmericanImperium1776]

@@jjhh320 I don’t know the background, but the current voice for the video does give me weird vibes.

[@vincentmalasawmkimajongte7489]

​@@jjhh320does she still do voice over for spacedock?

[@LilAlfiq]

Fascism is when any armed force without red stars, hammers or sickles on their uniforms.

[@FractalRaver]

? So if it’s not USSR or China it’s fascist? Lol

[@anthonyshannon7559]

Warhammer not-fascism confirmed. Its just science

[@riptide3340]

The disassociation of fascism with its actual tenets is an example of the danger of buzzwords: the meanings get muddied due to overuse and a lack of understanding of the main ideas, like you pointed out in the video. People need to ask themselves this: why is fascism (or any buzzword ideology regularly used) bad? If you can’t answer that question using your own knowledge, then you need to research. Remember: Names and words aren’t bad, it’s what makes them up that is. edit: forgot to say… excellent video👍

[@Shortfuse39]

The buzzword use is a part of the subversion and an integral part in gathering like minded individuals into the collective.

[@marceloantunes998]

At this point fascist just means cool and good, like racist just means not insane

[@2MannzumHochbeamen]

In the Soviet Union and its satellite states, "fascist" was used as a synonym for "capitalist". The Berlin wall was officially called the "anti-facist barrier" by the East German government. The term was also used in school books and media to denote the NATO states. Soviet communism tried to model itself into the heroic antidote to Nazism, based on the fact that communists and Nazis had fought each other in the revolutionary twenties and in WW2. In fact, they didn't fight because of inherent differnces, but because they are very similar, they were concurrents fighting over the same resource - the votes and backing of the working class, of the people who felt left behind, of the disappointed. National socialism and international socialism deny individual freedom, because both don't see the worth in the human individuum, but only in the group. The international socialists called it "class" the national socialists called it "race", but the narrative was the same. Nazi propaganda painted the "Arians" as the hard-working, straight-minded German worker and the "Jews" as the scheming, blood sucking moneylender, the evil cliché "capitalst", not able of value adding work - just as the "class enemy" of the communists. Nazis did work with "capitalist" companies and individuals whenever it helped their cause (as did the communists, although more clandestine), but the government always had all means to take control of businesses and the overall tone was clearly anti-capitalist. The postwar Soviet communists of course tried to paint themselfes as the antitome of the nazis, not the original Italian facists. But to avoid the obvious connection in the term "national socialist", they preferred the use of "fascist" to denote the overall ideology of the axis powers. This definition of "anti-fascist", as coined by Soviet communism, was adapted by the extreme left subculture of western countries, who of course read the Soviet literature and defined themselfes as "freedom fighters" in "fascist" societies. This is the origin of the Antifa - if you read their pamphlets, you will notice that everything they critisize is not "fascist" (as in "similar to fascist Italy or nazi Germany), but just capitalist (for better or worse).

[@revisit8480]

>Communists fought for the VOTES of the working class They literally "k*lled" the Tsar and took power via war - as they tried in Germany. - All of your takes are just awful "demokratischer" garbage.

[@e.corellius4495]

absolutely, ive been trying to get this across to people for years. perhaps one of the greatest and most lasting achievements of the soviet union is its propaganda to paint fascism as its polar opposite. when in reality both are extreme left. an actual "far-right extremist" would be an anarco-capitalist libertarian.

[@markdorn8873]

They also have a very confused idea of what fascism entails. One manifesto said, "If you are for limited government, the you are a fascist!" Said no fascist ever! Limited government isn't even a capitalist idea.

[@UdarRusskihPudgei]

Total BS. Capitalist countries were called capitalist, or bourgeois. Fascism, by marxist definition, is a form of capitalism, outright terrorist dictatorship of most reactionary circles of capitalist class. And very few post-war countries were described by Soviet propaganda as fascist, mainly military dictatorships like Pinochet regime or Greek junta ('black colonels'). Even pre-war Japan wasn't considered 100% fascist, and was labeled 'militarist' in soviet political agenda.

[@2MannzumHochbeamen]

@@UdarRusskihPudgeiOf course capitalist countries were called by these terms, too, but the use of "fascist" as a synonyme of capitalist is very well documented.

[@My-Name-Isnt-Important]

The claim of Star Trek being fascist comes from not understanding, and not watching, the entire series of Star Trek. Including ST:TNG which explains what the federation and Starfleet is. It's clearly laid out that people can choose to be apart of the Federation and have all the support they want, or not be apart and have as little support as they wish. The people claiming it's fascist just assume everyone has to be apart of the Federation and work toward it's goals. Which even then, isn't fascist. If these people don't understand or don't like something, they'll claim it's fascist, even knowing something isn't, they know they can slander and poison the well for people who don't know about a subject, like Star Trek or 40K.

[@artOVtrolling]

If everything is fascism then fascism is alright I guess.

[@gscsilvavaladares7065]

No is not , and never will be , I know you doing this out of mokery but just to make clear , everything is not fascism and is not a loud and uninformed minority that is going to define that.

[@Wayoutthere]

Indeed. Saves up space for worrying about the real issue: RAMPANT MARXISM.

[@TheTeodorsoldierabvb]

@@Wayoutthere Show me on eperson who has read Marx, and then tell me that person (or you) can apply 19th century specific economic theory today :D you haven't read Marx either.

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

​​@@TheTeodorsoldierabvbYou prove his point. "The revolution is inevitable!" More than 100 years later... Still waiting for decadent capitalism to fall, uncle Marx!

[@TheTeodorsoldierabvb]

@@DonVigaDeFierro You're strawmanning really hard. My comment isn't about Marxism being right. It's about no Marxists being present, much less rampant. The same way no Neoplatonists are present, or rampant. Socialism and communism evolved from classic Marxism long ago to take other forms. Sit down and relax. Nobody is taking away your grandpa's cornfield :D Otherwise, revolutions did happen and they are in place in many countries, just not in the way that Marx imagined, because he is an early idealist, tailoring his philosophy to mid 19th century Germany.

[@gregajohnson1985]

"yeah, and buffalo wings don't have any buffalo in them!" is a response i actually got once.

[@KurNorock]

I've been challenging people to point out any single fascist thing in starship troopers after they make the claim that it's a "satire on fascism". They never can.

[@RHR199X]

The book was written by a guy with authoritarian views but the movie subverts Heinlein and is making fun of it in all kinds of subtle ways.

[@CountSpartula]

​@@RHR199XHeinlein was a libertarian. If they look stiff and regimented that might have something to do with him being a military man and the book happens to follow people in the military.

[@KurNorock]

@@RHR199X so where is the fascism in the movie? Give me an example.

[@kingfisher1638]

@@RHR199X Heinlein was a libertarian hippie. He wrote the hippie bible: "Stranger in a strange land". He was offering a steel man argument for federal citizen stratocracy to explore the ideas of authority and political force. The hippies, and the communists who were using them, viewed this as a betrayal and so the communist film maker tried to discredit it through a spoof film. He may not have personally read it but he knew what it was about because his friends had been buzzing about how their favorite author had betrayed the movement. It was a revenge piece. The Irony is that Heinleins message still shined through and the core idea survived the parody.

[@GusthoffBurgerberg]

@@RHR199X What authoritarian views? Name one

[@hotsingleplaguedoctorinarea]

Remember when Fascism meant palingenetic ultranationalism, Pepperidge farm remembers.

[@GeorgeCowsert]

Remember: Fascism is a collectivist ideology. The only difference between it and Communism is that Fascism identifies the core flaw with collectivism (loyalty to your fellow man) and tries to fix it with hypernationalism. Being authoritarian is just a way to govern. Usually, it's less effective than just letting people figure things out for themselves, but certain fictions do justify their stances. In WH40k, just knowing how Chaos works gives Chaos power over you. Of course the Imperium would start with mass censorship and phobia; it's the best way to protect the broader population from a legitimate cognitohazard.

[@againsttheleftandright4065]

What a bunch of bullshit. Literally everything you said. First off, there is no "only difference" between communism and fascism. "Collectivism" is equally as broad as "authoritarianism." It's just a means to and end. The doctrine and spirit of fascism and communism are polar opposites. Second off, authoritarianism is objectively the more effective system, since EVERY country in World War Two became authoritarian and socialist to fight the war. It's just not true that capitalism always creates more benefit.

[@NoFlu]

With 40K I always say that, its essentially a universe in which all the talking points racist and xenophobic people spout are true (well about aliens that is). Like the tagline says "there is only war". Of course imma be racist against aliens if the best thing I can hope for is( I think) sterilization and cultural genocide by the T'au or being held as not even 2nd class citizen by Eldars. The worst is basically death by decade long torture (if they even let you die). Heck, the "best" death you can hope for is getting desintegrated by Necron weapons (and hopefully not getting bitten a million times by scarab mandibles). And that's not even starting about chaos. Basically, xenophobia is defined by an "irrational" fear, but is it really "irrational" in the 40k universe? I don't really think so....

[@augustuslunasol10thapostle]

@@NoFlu racisms talking points aren’t true in 40k because all “races” (ie groups of humans that look similar) are all equal the inequality is social class and not based on appearance

[@NoFlu]

@@augustuslunasol10thapostle I ment racism towards "non-human" races (or species I guess), not racism within the human race. "(well about aliens that is)"

[@ad_astra468]

@@augustuslunasol10thapostle The xenos in WH40k aren’t different ethnicities but the other sentient species in the universe, there’s actually way less ethnic racism in it than in the real world as humanity is mostly unified against the other sentient species.

[@5unny5ide]

Outstanding video. Maybe the best one I've seen on the topic....

[@MikaNyangeance]

Fascism is just another buzzword people don't actually know the meaning of & just call someone or something when they can't win an argument

[@gscsilvavaladares7065]

Fascists like militarism , any thing that looks militaristic is gonna be called fascist by people ho do not know it.

[@reviewspiteras]

I am glad you talked about Umberto Eco he was a commie that used his dialectic to slander his opponents ideologies (which came from socialism) because he wanted to prepare the ground for another commie revolution. I actually dislike the guy since I had to read his essays for college

[@Realandauthentic]

Yeah he was pretty cool

[@jebe4563]

Sounds about right. "Don't buy their brand of Totalitarian nonsense they're a #&^%, buy my brand that totally will "work," '

[@elviadarkgrape2859]

@@Realandauthentic He was a commiecuck.

[@thetimebinder]

Couldn't get past three pages of The Name of the Rose. Two pages describing a fucking doorknob.

[@opedrohenrique12]

Você está rapidamente se tornando um dos meus canais favoritos da plataforma

[@RickJaeger]

Pretty good! I had very low expectations for a youtube video essay about Fascism, but even if I had high ones, I would have certainly considered them comfortably exceeded.

[@liubei3058]

"I'm kinda sick of everything I love getting called 'Fascist'." I kinda agree with you.

[@Darkrunn]

I think the thing about a lot of extremist ideologies that pulls people in is the promise of belonging. Many, MANY people in the current era are starving for that sense of belonging, and they seek it through a variety of mediums (sports, fandoms, trends, etc.). I spent a long time learning about Islamic extremist groups (for professional and academic studies), and the similarities are striking. Not accusing people of BEING extremists, simply saying the ideas by themselves have a sort of cultural gravity. It makes sense that a lot of people who are rational enjoy fiction portraying something like that sense of belonging, something they can live vicariously through for a moment before getting back to reality. That's probably why a lot of sci-fi and fantasy also focuses on religion or magic being more concrete, something we can understand. Saying this as a fan of 40k and the Empire in the Star Wars Expanded Universe. Edit: I just saw that you have a vid on religion in sci fi. lol. I'll watch that next.

[@andarara-c1p]

Warhammer 40ks Imperium of Man is way worse than fascism...and that´s the point. Warhammer 40k´s setting is about life sucking in an eternal war fought by nutjobs, eldritch abominations and plague galactic bugs. It is not about liking the factions and wanting to live in/with them

[@garrettsattem4799]

Isn’t the whole setting of Warhammer 40k, so I’ve heard, largely a satire of sci-fi in general?

[@andarara-c1p]

@@garrettsattem4799 yeah, so? It doesn't contradict with what I said

[@garrettsattem4799]

@@andarara-c1p Not saying that it does.

[@AliceBowie]

​@@garrettsattem4799It's really a pastiche of lots of sci-fi and fantasy novels, movies, comics, role-playing games, and anything else they like all added together and smashed into one IP. Dune, LOTR, Conan, HP Lovecraft, Heinlein, Moorcock, Anime, Terminator, Aliens, 2000AD, Judge Dredd, Nemesis the Warlock, and every historical army and culture, especially Byzantium, the Catholic Church, the British Navy in Space, and lots of other stuff.

[@garrettsattem4799]

@ And that’s why I love it.

[@just_hris]

Bro did not put Aragorn and fascism in the same thumbnail. These two are very different.

[@aletheuo475]

Obrigado. It's really interesting what you said about Liberalism, Socialism and Fascism each embodying a different French revolutionary virtue. Having read the Doctrine of Fascism (and y'all should too; it's not very long) I can say that it was precisely these two theories which Gentilli focuses on as things of the past. He criticises democracy for reducing people down to numbers, and socialism for being materialistic and missing the spiritual/mystical aspect of the progressive whole. No looking back; onward to deeds of violent heroism! It's very weird as a Christian to think of this modernist Hegelian madness being associated with ancient or medieval thinking.

[@zerkil6304]

On a scale of 1-10, how much did it hurt to see the spaghetti noodles broken in half

[@unknowncommenter6698]

About 90% of post-Soviet population does it, btw

[@MerrimanDevonshire]

So... Echo was a Marxist? Shocking... 😂

[@АндрейАкмульдин]

At this point, the word "fascist" doesn't mean relation to the ideology of fascism in most of the cases. It doesn't even mean "authoritative" or "nationalistic" anymore, it just means "a bad guy" now.

[@PingOnThis]

The spaghetti fasci should be a recurring gag.

[@samuelsmith5400]

“You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." - Indigo Montoya

[@maxpower9979]

It's not that epic traditional stories are fascist, it is rather that fascists strived to imitate epic traditional stories.

[@ZainAhmad-jl4vt]

that's the point, that's why people call you fascist when you're obsessed with traditional stories. It's a give away for fascists to be so obsessed of tradition

[@dragon14927]

Fascists are super nationalists. Are all nationalists fascists?