EP53: Atemi in Aikido - The Aiki Dojo Podcast

[@SchwarzeKatter]

I agree that at least the spirit of Atemi should be included for each technique. No contact whatsoever at least. I am planning on learning Aikido, but I will try to make sure to learn the Atemi of each technique on my own.

[@SlickTim9905]

I have a couple of questions and one or two comments for you. First, I think I said this before. I just want to say it again, thank you all very much. Your podcasts have been greatly appreciated and enlightening. Especially during and after Covid. But specifically because you keep the conversation ongoing. Martial Arts is a conversation. Its a conversation between you and your opponent and an ongoing conversation that enlightens the student(s). I didn't have a great Sensei like you did. So, forgive me if I say something that's disrespectful or something you disagree with. Its not my intension. I think pictures and movies like the Last Shogun are showing this. They moved away from Samurai and then again after World War 2 they would change again. Aikido and Judo grew popular with the kids. We would see less and less of a Samurai way of thinking because the Japanese have changed. Today its special if you can find a traditional martial arts dojo because MMA has become popular. I remember Tae-Kwan-do schools in New York. The way of thinking has changed. Aikido does not practice punching this way. I DON'T expect everyone to. if you are going to strike, you should be able to practice a few different ways. The strike that throws is one. Hit a dime, strike in a small controlled area. You should be able to focus and stop before hitting a solid object like a brick wall. Meaning you should be able to swing with full force yet have enough control to stop or feather before the target. You should be able push or force someone back. What's hard is hitting someone and making them fall forward and not away from you. Do they fall to the ground where they stand or fly away? Your punch should feel like a three inch punch, an arm bar, a clothesline at the same time. you should be able to parry a move as well as hit a pressure point. when you make contact with the body, you should penetrate into the target. There are other things like hyperextending into the target, synchronizing the strike with their breathing, striking while they step and the combination of sequence. Let's not forget conditioning. Can you take the punch that you give? Karate sees punching and striking like this and therefore they training accordingly. But not everyone does this. Wing Chung will do this. A few other arts will also. Do you see aikido as an unarmed person trying to defend themselves or do you see everyone as equal? Equal to attack or defend? Does everyone including you, have some type of hidden weapon or advantage? Do you see aikido as the way to disarm or apprehend an attacker? Do you throw someone first without exploring other methods? I'm asking this because how you see the art will tell how you will practice it. Do you have that old poster from the old Martial Arts magazines (ex kung Fu Illustrated) There is a poster with striking points. It had a couple of names, Dim Mak and Kyoshy Jutsu and a few others. Have someone put on markers or stick-ums from some of striking points. Put it on the chest and face. Then practice your Atemi and try to strike those points. Then ask how many points did you make contact with? Uke should also be attacking some of those points. You also have suit or armor. I've seen this in the background of some of your videos. Have someone, anyone put this armor on, carry some type of weight to mimic the weight or the weapons and then do the attack. Then switch, have the person with the armor do the defense moves. When you do the Atemi against the armor, you are targeting the weak areas of the armor. You have to get past the armor to reach the vital points. Also, wrist grabs. try them against the armor. When you're in defense, the weight of the armor prevents you from making wasted moves like jumping and diving. You pivot because the armor lets you. if you run you become a target for the bow and arrow. The practice of multiple attackers makes your movements conservative. I can tell from your conversations that you are sticklers for the corrections,...ie your spacing, the correct striking angle, your posture, your hand movement. There seams to be a battle between Aikido principles vs Martial Arts principles. Try this. Practice your moves as if you are practicing the Martial Art principle of protecting and attacking the center line. When you block or parry, it should be in protection of a vital point. if the person is trying to take your balance, you should try to block this action. Block the grab. Disrupt the footwork. Stop them from getting behind you. Stop them from entering on you. In this case you would follow the principle more than following the correction. My big issue is with the footwork. Right now, I see a lot of videos on Let's ask Seki Sensei, a Ken-Jutsu Sensei. I try to compare Aikido footwork with his. He is so fluid. I'm learning a lot from just watching him. To me, Japanese footwork should look like judo, like aikido, like kendo and Ken-Jujitsu. More importantly, it should overlap. Karate has both a Chinese and a Japanese influence. You see and feel both types of movements. Meaning it shouldn't begin end with sitting and bowing. I remember showing a Tomiki-Aikido guy that Karate punches and blocks at the same time. I believe its called Oui-Tsuki. Its a Japanese principle. He was surprised that Karate had this. Then the question is should this be a Martial Arts principle? Other arts do it. Wing Chung does it. Kendo does it. My point is, ether you are following basic movements or you're following the principles. I remember shadow boxing and having someone throw tennis balls at me while I practiced footwork in the beginning. I've never seen anyone else practice like that since then. It's not the '80s anymore.

[@user-sg8kq7ii3y]

In other combat disciplines, atemi is often easy to utilize even if you don't specifically practice it on a regular basis. For example, it is easy for a wrestler to utilize atemi even if he doesn't train it on a regular basis. All he needs to do is to fake a jab to his opponent's face before shooting in for the double-leg. The jab serves to occupy the opponent's attention for split second, and it serves to make him pull his head backwards, making him more vulnerable for the double-leg. For a boxer, his atemi would be his feints/fakes. When Floyd Mayweather Jr. fought Canelo, there is this one wicked combination that Floyd threw. He delivered three soft, pawing jabs to Canelo's face. Canelo brought his guard up. Floyd then split Canelo's guard with an uppercut that lifted Canelo's head like a Pez candy dispenser. Floyd's soft, probing jabs was the atemi. If you bring "real" atemi back into your aikido curriculum, then you'll need to be prepared to have a lot more bleeding/broken noses, split lips, and missing teeth. Some of your students will also get accidentally poked in the eye as well. If I were a young high school or college kid, or if aikido was the only thing I did in my life, then I would not mind training that way. But as an older person who has to go to work in an office everyday, I don't think I'd enjoy getting whacked in the face every single time I went to aikido practice. I mean, what 40, 50, 60 year old person wants to get hit in the face at every single aikido practice. Most train as a hobby, to get some exercise, and for stress relief.

[@dmitryvinnik8591]

Hello! Thank you so much for your work. I think you did an excellent job explaining the topic of "Atemi in Aikido". However, it seems like you were a bit surprised by the conclusions you reached. At first, you said that atemi is just a correction of mistakes in technique, and ideally, they should not be used. That's absolutely true. But then you changed your mind and said that we need to practice atemi. In my opinion, your point of view is supported by the principles of Aikido. In this martial art, Uke and Tori are considered equal, and the teaching methods and attestation requirements go from simple to complex. We start by learning basic grappling techniques, then move on to training strikes like shomenuchi and yokomenuchi, and only after that do we learn about jodan tsuki. When performing techniques against grabbing attacks, we don't use atemi because we follow the principle of equality. We build a configuration of interaction with an attack without using atemi. We also don't respond to training blows with punches. Instead, we only control the distance, as in the case of yokomenuchi. Therefore, when we come to quick strikes, our skills allow us to do without atemi. If we make mistakes, then it might be possible to use atemi to "fix" the form. But why should we strive to practice broken technical forms if we can study pure movement? That's why atemi is not needed in Aikido. Thank you for your time and attention.

[@TonyPacenski]

Over the last few years, I’ve had an excellent opportunity to train in Tokyo with a group that studies under Nshio Sensei’s expression of Aikido. The curriculum has been a deep dive into synthesizing how Aikido can be applied with the bokken, jo, and empty hand. Through this type of practice, a student understands that atemi is the structure of the waza and not something that is added here or there. In addition, there are 15 katas of Toho Iaido. Again, I have found that atemi in Nishio expression is not something added to techniques; it is structured in multiple aspects and timing of a waza. Japanese atemi is a form of mental off-balancing Kuzushi. So, it is more than striking and physically hitting someone.

[@Californiansurfer]

Kendo: we have MA. MA is Distance and timing. Also from my experience when you tell a joke and you dont get response, that quietness is MA. ATEMI: Ate: strike. Mi: body Trimming and movement.

[@SlickTim9905]

and you can always say ...Ma, they keep hitting me.

[@MLightstone]

Great description. Since the goal of the aikodoka isn't attached to any specific technique, the usefulness of hitting or slapping is no different than the usefulness of hip tosses or wrist locks. You do what works, whatever it is.

[@SlickTim9905]

Pimp slapping???

[@ديناالشاعر-ز2ط]

Your location please