Air Brake Basics and Techniques

[@new_comment]

We need more activity from The Depot, really useful stuff

[@TrainScott]

I do remember when Run8 had information on brakes when it was V1. When you mentioned not adding power when the rear hasn't been released since it would break a coupler. I also remember hearing that when stopping a train at a stop signal and then it changes to a clear signal is to let a train stop first once you slow down to a crawl rather than release the brakes while moving and notch up on a throttle while the brakes haven't released.

[@NSHorseheadSD70]

On NS, you can't release the air under 10 MPH without stopping. If you're above 10 you can release it and keep moving but you want to be gentle with it while the air releases.

[@NSHorseheadSD70]

It's $40 and you can buy it here: www.run8studios.com/

[@TomYoureDoingItWrong]

On UP, anytime speed drops below 10 MPH with automatic brakes applied, the movement must come to a complete stop and a 10 PSI service reduction made on the automatic. The auto brake may then be released and when the airflow in brake pipe pressure on the read-end via the EOT is seen to being restored, then movement may recommence. The reason for stopping is that it is far more likely to break a knuckle or rip out a drawbar at slow speed. Sir Isaac Newton is a stern Taskmaster when it comes to railroading...

[@speed150mph]

I always love these videos. I’m a diesel doc for a class 1, so I know how they work, but when it comes to train handling I am as green as your average foamer. So thanks for videos like this. Question, with regards to powerbraking, you touched on getting to know your territory, but what are we trying to achieve with power braking as opposed to coasting or dynamic braking? What type of situations is it better in and why? Also One suggestion for a future video I’d like would be crew/dispatch interaction, and the proper way to go about requesting a signal or getting a track authority? Thanks again!

[@NSHorseheadSD70]

Power braking is normally for smaller trains that can apply and release the brakes quickly. We have a rule on NS where trains over a certain length can't be power braked because of how long they are. Power braking allows you to slow down in a shorter distance and at a faster pace. Coasting and dynamic braking take a little longer to work than just applying the air since you'll get all the cars slowing down at a more rapid pace.

[@speed150mph]

NSHorseheadSD70 does Dp make a difference when it comes to the decision for powerbraking, given that it changes the time and the way that the train brakes will apply and release?

[@maxshelltrack6131]

Pretty much keeping it stretched out that way when you take off everything gets going at the same time.

[@weswheel4834]

Thanks for this, fantastic video. I wasn't clear on the benefits of power braking though? Is it just to keep the train stretched out? Thanks.

[@davemccann9463]

Can you simulate ECP braking as it operates 60% fatser?

[@jikemenkins7098]

Thank you!

[@yfposer]

Where do I go to learn the VEEERY basics

[@ismaelrazo8052]

Can you use automatic brake while being on a notch just to lower speed a bit, and is that legal?

[@TheDepotServer]

Yep. That's called power braking or stretch braking

[@gregobern6084]

? Do brakes automatically apply without air pressure in the reservoir or brake pipe (like an 18 wheeler) Air pressure required to release brakes

[@jeffscharpf]

I know this is a few years old but I just bought TSW2 and this is a very informative video. I am a little confused about the term "bail off". What does this mean? Are you applying the independent brake?

[@TheDepotServer]

When you apply the automatic brake, the independent brake will also apply. By "bailing off" you're keeping the independent brake released while the train brake applies so you don't end up getting a run in with the slack.

[@jeffscharpf]

@@TheDepotServer ok thanks, I think I understand now.

[@TomYoureDoingItWrong]

@@jeffscharpf the formal term is 'actuating' the independent brake, if you ever come across that terminology. That is what would be used in the Air Brake and Train Handling Rules of any particular carrier. Tom

[@fectrain]

I love your videos, always very informative! Question though on this one, and I know it probably sounds stupid. I don't have a RailDriver, so I'm trying to learn your techniques in this video with the keyboard. I have no problem with the stretch braking, easy enough, but on the speed braking, whenever I make a 10 lb. service application, the BC, or brake cylinder goes up 10 lbs. and it shows up in yellow numbers on the screen. When you say that "you'll notice I'm bailing", that's where I'm getting lost. The key for bailing is supposed to be the "/" key according to the Run8 keyboard layout, but when I hit that key, nothing happens, it stays at 10 on the BC. The only way to make it go back to zero is to release the brakes. Am I missing something here? It's the same way on both the GE loco and the EMD when I try it.

[@TheDepotServer]

Try holding it down and make sure the brake cylinder starts releasing. I've never played with a keyboard but I know that you have to hold the independent lever over to bail off so maybe that's it.

[@fectrain]

@@TheDepotServer I tried that too, but thanks anyway for making the suggestion! The independent brakes are controlled by the page up and page down keys, I tried holding the page down key and it holds at 11 psi in the cylinder, if I hold the page up key, it fully applies the independent brakes which of course isn't what I want.

[@anthonycedar7]

fectrain On my keyboard, the actuate or “bail off” key is the decimal key.

[@railspike7057]

Interesting to see how other railroads operate. There is no right way or wrong way, as long as you get to the final terminal in one piece. I actually never heard of anybody getting a train separation. with only 50 cars. And knucles and drawbars generally happen under 25 miles a hour. We had to give up power braking in 1990, instead forward planning must be used. ie: start earlier by reducing power and using dynamics if needed, It does work but I would like to see more judgement to be allowed. They claimed it saves fuel and basically doubles the life of railcar wheel sets. (average 225,000 miles, before being turned on a lathe) Air Flow is "Cubic Feet MInute" not PSI. How the shop employees calibrate this guage is to attach to the trainline a airhose that is capped with a orfice of a certain size then change the 60cfm mark to match where the needle is on the guage. It shows the condition of your trainline not if your brakes are released. Your rise in tailend pressure will tell you that. In fact it it could be the reverse, if you are running and have the brakes applied and you see airflow jump up you likely are getting an unintential brake release on the whole train. In cold weather if you wait for the air flow to get back under 60 cfm that may take hours, even though the brakes are fully released. Just start pulling and the streching of air hoses and bouncing around usally will help out. Putting out a video on aggressive train handling would be very interesting. See what train handling can and cannot get away with,

[@jamescerone]

I'm a bit unclear as to the reasons you would use dynamics instead of air, or air instead of dynamics. I watched your video on mountainous terrain, so I know how to employ both: but I still don't understand what goes into the choice to use one, or more of one, than the other.

[@joy_0109]

You first have to understand what differentiates Dynamic from Air brake. You send current to a DC motor and it spins. Inversely a 'free spinning' DC motor generates electricity. The generation of electricity slows down the motor. (The faster the motor spins - the more electricity it generates - the more braking power is created) But as the motor slows down, it generates less electricity and in turn less braking force. So this kind of braking loses effectiveness as the train start slowing down. It can slow the train down but can never fully stop it. This is Dynamic brake. Now air brake is simple, brake pads push onto the wheels to slow them with friction. But air brakes are slow and they also need to recharge after each use. Dynamic is very good where you need to keep the speed in check but don't wanna fully stop the train, like coming down a grade. Whereas air brake is for situations when the dynamic brake is not effective/sufficient. That said, I'm not an expert in trains, there might be some inaccuracies in my explanation. But I hope I was able to help you a little bit.

[@TomYoureDoingItWrong]

Chris, what program are you using? I am a retired UP Locomotive Engineer and am now working as a Paralegal/Investigator for a FELA law firm. I would like to use this program to explain how thing work. Thanks!

[@TheDepotServer]

The simulator or editing software?

[@TomYoureDoingItWrong]

@@TheDepotServer I want to use it to demonstrate what things really look like and how they are used. I like what you have here, but I am hoping to get my own copy of the program for my personal use. I don't have the talent to do any software editing.

[@TheDepotServer]

This is Run 8 Train Simulator

[@hwrdmltn]

Nice video, you are obviously NOT a foamer lol. Great auditory skills and presenter and a very informative technique for train braking, I'm still learning - retired truck driver and 20 years of air brakes, train brakes are nothing coming even close except that they both use air. If I had a complaint on your video, it would be regarding your microphone - it is VERY flat and has virtually NO dynamic range - sounds as if you're talking on a telephone from 1960. :-)

[@TheDepotServer]

Yeah I've noticed that. When I do my own live streams, I've been turning the volume down and speaking louder so that seems to be helping. I appreciate the feedback.

[@etaymarkman]

Hi. just a few questions after watching this video Now. in the Israel Railways JT42BW you can't bail off and it will cancel any power while braking(to prevent a coupler break). and also it has an automatic blended brake(like the P42 in Run8) which turns on the dynamics when braking and no direct release(only graduated). now i wonder why it is ok to not bail off/Stretch brake/Power brake in israel but not in america

[@edwardwilliam5024]

Nice video you impact a loot to me

[@etaymarkman]

@phillyslasher Passenger - about 3-10 cars Freight - not more than 30 cars

[@fredpryde8555]

i still getting confused with the dynamic braking

[@azstumbler]

So the opening music is very loud, loud enough where I need to turn down the volume. But then the narration comes on, very low and tinny. You need to get a better microphone so people are not blasted by the intro then can barely hear the narration.

[@eoinpkav152]

If you want to be even more realistic, a reduction of more than 30 PSI (while moving) starts to lock up the wheels and cause flat spots so a reduction of more than 30 PSI is frowned upon.

[@NSHorseheadSD70]

And if you make a reduction of over 15 pounds, you're supposed to stop and recharge the brakes. 30 PSI is well beyond full service, you're into "Suppression" by that point and if you had to go that deep on the air, you've got bigger problems.

[@eoinpkav152]

@@NSHorseheadSD70 that is with a self lapping brake at least.