Undergraduate Pilot Training 2.5 Now Just UPT as Air Force Moves Forward

Air Force UPT 2.5 is now the standard for UPT. Mover, Gonky, and Wombat discuss the new syllabus plus future changes and why they were needed. Check out The Mover and Gonky Show Mondays at 8PM ET LIVE. • The Mover and Gonky Show
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Views presented are my own and do not represent the views of DoD or its Components.

[@paulbrooks4395]

I see the same thing at work and at my lady’s school, they fail people forward. Insufficient training at work or not giving kids extra education to improve. Knowledge deficits cascade and become cumulative. Eventually the MO is to blame the person at the bottom, despite the fact that the environment and processes (or lack of process) has pushed someone to a point where they are consistently underperforming. In schools it’s trying to literally teach people who can’t read how to read at the same time they try to teach high level concepts. It’s bizarre. In corporate, it’s hire an unqualified person and give them no training and then expect them to learn on the job…that somehow teammates will educate people while doing their own work. Or expect unqualified people to somehow learn what they need on their own outside of work. Training and not putting people who aren’t ready into positions they can’t handle (yet!) makes life so much smoother for everyone. And to your point-it’s going to destroy lives or careers down the road because the consequential effects will be that much greater.

[@pollylewis9611]

Thank you, Mover, for giving us everyday folk an inside look into pilot training, this gives an interesting view into how new fighter pilots are getting trained.

[@gabefels2777]

I was in one of the first few T-6 UPT2.5 classes, now having 2 sorties left in the T-38 before IFF. What you said about "having to click a mouse" in the VR sim could not be more true. Those things are janky as hell. It's not a bad concept, being able to see a rendered cockpit and avionics that are more functional than the cardboard poster does have some utility. But the software needs a lot of work, you have to take off the headset every 5 seconds for one reason or another, and they induced a lot of negative habit transfer since both the T-6 and T-38 VR sims use that one A-10 hotas that everybody uses for DCS. We turned most of them in the 38 into discussions and plane on a stick demos instead for those reasons. As for the F/BF syllabus, consensus among IPs (at least a couple months ago) seemed to be that one big question is yet to be answered - who will be teaching it? Our squadron is like 80% faips and 10% non-fighter MWS guys.

[@CWLemoine]

Congrats!

[@regprewitt7637]

Congrats on the impending graduation. Are you guy/gals doing a class video? A question: Did you not use the PointCTRL pointing device instead of a mouse? It's not the most unintrusive workaround for the mouse but is far better than playing blind paddy cake with the mouse in VR. The biggest concern I have for the cobbled together VR rig is negative training. UPT is challenging enough without having to learn two different ways of doing a task when each only works in a particular aircraft.

[@ronaldbarrett1506]

Wonder how a proplane equals a swept wing pure jet platform. JPAT-tricked?

[@FL.AirBoater]

My brother started flying the T-37 then the T-38 and went into the A-7 Corsair ll, After that he went into the Eagle, Enjoy your videos from central Florida

[@SworBeyE16]

Puts the Military Flying Training Situation in the UK to shame

[@86309]

From the Viper C. model to the Eagle C the span was 1993 then 2010 for me . The capability in the 15 sim (full bubble multi airplane ) was crazy better for all the DCA OCA stuff, BUT it still does not take place of the loss of flight hours......but sometimes trying to get a 4 ship v many (or even just 4 ship up with FIDL ) was a serious challenge, so it certainly augments, enhances, etc but cannot be a excuse for lack of quality hours. the decision makers need to continue to see the pushback on that topic.......

[@PassportBrosBusinessClass]

I truly miss the SEGA R360 gyroscopic arcade cabinet. If you could sandwich that cabinet with DCS using modern technology, you'd have the ULTIMATE flight simulator. All you'd need to add is rudder pedals, a touchscreen and a HOTAS WARTHOG.

[@squeakersc063]

I'm an RPA pilot and for a while they were trying to get volunteers from us to go teach the UPT guys the T-6 on the simulator. Haven't heard about that in a while, I wonder if this is that program.

[@atyt22]

Wombat looks like he’s still pulling G’s sitting at home 😂 you guys are awesome

[@exit1368]

Are they still doing daily EP stand up’s? The fear of being sat down in front of 20 peers & all the IP’s was a huge motivator to stay in the books! Hope the Stud’s are getting more solo time like the original UPT syllabus. Will never forget doing two -38 contact solo’s before noon! Happy Landings, All - CBM 97-06 recently retired. 🫡

[@awesomerikd168]

Yep stand ups are very much still alive in UPT. The new T-6 syllabus actually has a good amount of solos compared to the traditional syllabus.

[@Funk8_4]

It's the same reason there are so many poor leaders in the civilian sector. They don't actually have the time in or even passion to do their job. It's all about the title and the t-shirt now. Quotas need to be filled, and bodies are needed.

[@LouisLupz]

it's not my Air Force anymore. Gone are the days of the days that every UPT graduated was a high performance pilot. At Willy it was tougher, physical demanding. '38 was the real thing, we had 2 washed back in '37s but 5 washed outs on '38.

[@gregorymaupin6388]

Any idea when the T-7 Red Hawk rollout happening does anyone know and will the Navy going to have a newer trainer anytime soon?

[@thestimp1]

2027 is last I heard

[@RW-zn8vy]

Got delayed till next year for production

[@Marteeen261]

if the military is consistent, then it won't meet the deadline for rollout. I bet that you'll see a mix of T7s and T38s in training 5-10 years from now

[@theshawnmccown]

There are DCS enthusiasts that build mockups of the cockpits. The real Honeywell switches are ridiculously expensive, but cheaper substitutes are out there to, at least, build muscle memory for switch and knob locations. It wouldn't help with current gen fighters since the cockpits likely have more modern upgrades, but when playing DCS, I think I'm going to enjoy it more than my VR. Something about flipping real switches. I could see where mockup cockpits could help with systems training and muscle memory from what you guys are saying.

[@miguelortiz7875]

Its crazy how i asked the DCS community on Reddit about this because i want to become a fighter pilot and my question was basically if i could train on the T6 and the Talon on there and build muscle memory and just the cockpit layout to give myself sort of an advantage and everyone turned it down so negatively like around 60 people then i see this and im like wow THANK GOD.

[@kymw7833]

Hey mover the T38 you guys talk of didn't mean much to me until Blancolirio did a recent air show tour of one wow they are really old how do you go from that to the technology of modern Jets ,you and your Mates are a funny group obviously very good friends Kym Adelaide

[@minicute2234]

theres new movie chinas top gun "born to fly" 2023 would love your reaction on it

[@CH-lc3yf]

Getting rid of IFF? That's nuts!

[@Recklessness97]

IFF is not gone but combined into UPT. So instead of going to a separate squadron and pretending to be a fighter pilot with the squadron patches, squadron bar, vault, etc it's all just taught in UPT. Just like the how the Navy and Marines have done it.

[@SaqibJavid-l8w]

how did the f35 end up in Cuba ?????

[@LittlehorseReynolds]

I am sure you already know this but what you talk about is happening in nearly every profession in the United States.

[@rwhunt99]

Right now, it sounds like we are number one in the world, and everyone is far behind us in training - actual flight time. So where can we cut back to save money and air frames (maintenance), so they are trying to decide how many expensive jets can we afford to lose because we cut back? When will the rest of the world catch up to us? , Do we let them? It's a slippery slope and we should not go there. If we do anything we need to get tough with the vendors, the military/ industrial complex. Costs are out of control and no one is doing anything about it. We need to toughen up or cede our technological lead to another Country. We need to keep them flying!!

[@larrysouthern5098]

One day DCS simmers will be like gods in UPT.... Like kids good at John Maden Football.. Or NASCAR drivers growing up on Grand Theft Auto... Sims and VR training plus AI IS HERE TO STAY...

[@yokoh691]

great listen befor heading off to my dream job in video games, but aviation ruined that for me lol Pilot training in november =D

[@josephpadula2283]

0 seconds ago IFF identification friend or foe?

[@CWLemoine]

Introduction to Fighter Fundamentals, as explained in this video.

[@josephpadula2283]

Yes I typed my comment in when you first used the term before the explaination. But I hate when two items in the same field have the same name …

[@CWLemoine]

That's very common in the military and life in general. Context helps.

[@garyshelly6555]

Wombat needs to talk more just sayin😂

[@crusty251]

Don't 'they' already have the sims with full hardware junk and VR for outside view? The outside view has the fixed limit line around the cockpit hardware below which VR is see-through? I might have been slightly misinformed though 😁

[@chaadlosan]

"This is not going to end how you think it will end"

[@Pulsaar-15]

great Mover 👍👍👍

[@ronaldbarrett1506]

Ignoring that the drones will replace most of the piloted platforms:Military Grade Warrants who have been flying their own drones for say a decade (which will be AI equipped): will replace College/academy pilots who will be years behind technology utilizations. Look at what is taking place in Ukraine right this very minute. Is not the LSO now really eLSO's? Kinda pilots are integrated fly-by-wire enjoined. Adjunct note: the limitations of the F-35 (not to be spoken about) and helmet'latency/electrostatic/bus problems. Old enough here to remember JPATS. OP-05 etc and others now Drone SPOs less qualified than anyone at NAS-P and Nellis couch pilots. Oh wellll

[@flyboyone]

SIMS do have their place. But are now starting to be employed them too broadly because of their cost benefits. Trainers at all levels must remember, students only learn if they make mistakes and many challenging situations can NOT be replicated authentically at One G in a Box! We are very familiar with the Post Graduate Training Space and we will always need to do the very minimum of 30% of the training in "Live Metal" to compliment the SIM work. Often for no other reason other than you can not Simulate big (7 plus) sustained G, physical stress, Fear and Emotions in a SIM! These physical and emotional things are important tool in education.

[@Nighthawk2401]

I'm currently working on a couple 93rd FS/482nd FW skins for the viper in the game War Thunder, any idea what specific names go on the sides - or at least, where to find the right names? Namely for 88-0404 and 87-0290. Everything on google is either super blurry or only shows one side. And I'm sure they've changed crews several times over the years. 88404 in the usual multi tone grey scheme Left side is probably "Col David "Piff" Piffarerio, right side possibly "SSgt Jeffrye Useda" (?) 87290 in the grey scheme, but with black canopy and stabilizers + special tail art Left side looks like "Col Donald "Louie" Lindberg, but I can't find anything readable for the right side. I want the pairs of names to be correct for whatever given timeframe, if you know any way of confirming them it'd be appreciated

[@TheGreatWasian_]

I think VR is a step in the right direction as long as the VR is properly immersive and realistic. If not, then it could cause more harm than good.

[@j4v3n81]

Man, this was a tough conversation to have to listen to and not be a part of. Its frustrating that even 6 years after the first PTN in Austin there is still so much left to unpack.

[@MrBarbuster]

they sure burn the fuel going into smokeyhill range here in kansas

[@Marteeen261]

you and Casmo need to do a Video on the V280 valor

[@SuprHorn3t]

I’m a 24 year old who just graduated with my physical education degree, is it possible to still become a pilot or is it too late or how hard would it be to get into a program

[@CWLemoine]

Definitely still possible. Make them tell you no.

[@terryheo3464]

Go to officer training school and get a pilot slot

[@JBK-w5u]

I am 23 years old, I currently am not enrolled in college and don't have any degree. Is there anyway I can be a pilot in the military whether thats fixed wing or Rotor? I have roughly 70 hours of Total Time in Fixed wing.

[@CWLemoine]

Enroll in college and get a degree.

[@mikeguapo1999]

The Army is the only branch where you don’t have to have a degree to be a pilot since they have a warrant officer program but it’s mainly rotor aircraft. The other branches you need a degree to be a pilot.

[@ronaldbarrett1506]

A 4-year degree is not needed! The US Army pilots are real hard-core pilots. The USN carrier pilots are real pilots, but will be replaced by DRONE-AI assisted platforms because the loss of a piloted platform like the F-35 (any mode is over $100 million dollars gone!). Just not sustainable. The USAF pilots are good but not required for any of their missions. Droned assets can swarm, cost lots less per plane, and do not suck up rank (high dollar pay slots). The USAF had priced itself out of the FLOT. However trillion dollar DOD budgets buys votes for the old folks, so nothing will get changed@@mikeguapo1999