Air Traffic Control: Near Miss at JFK

An Aerogal Boeing 767 attempts to land on the wrong runway at New York's JFK airport, nearly colliding with a Jetblue rolling for take off. The tower air traffic controller sorts it out and a collision is averted. Audio from Liveatc.net.
The Aerogal had been cleared for a Parkway Visual Approach (Canarsie Approach) to runway 13L and had subsequently been cleared to land on 13L. The procedure resembles circling procedures such as the legendary Kai Tak IGS to 13, albeit with less drama due to the absence of mountainous terrain.
Once at the Canarsie VOR, planes fly a 041 heading along the Shore Parkway (the main visual reference) and then begin a right turn to either 13R or 13L (typically 13L is used because it is a wider, easier turn). The primary visual aid, especially at night, is provided by clusters of lead-in lights. The first cluster is approximately 2 miles from the threshold of 13R.
When cleared for 13L, pilots begin a slight right turn at the first cluster, then follow two more clusters and initiate a tight right turn to line up with the runway, where the fourth and last cluster of lights is located. This video gives you an idea of what it looks like at night: • Video
Now, to line up for 13R, pilots must have initiated a tight right turn at the first cluster to enter a 2 mile final. For the Delta pilots on the ground to spot the mistake, the plane must have been already lined up with 13R, so it could not have been much more than a mile away. By the time Delta warned the tower and the controller issued the go-around, the Aerogal must have been quite close to the threshold.
Un piloto de Aerogal confunde pista 13L por 13R y casi ocasiona un serio accidente.

[@cockatoo010]

Oh, this is the incident Steve talked about on his interview with Captain Joe!

[@examplewastaken]

thought so too but according to the interview the aircraft he talked about was an A340

[@patrikohman4617]

@@examplewastaken Steve talked about this Aerogal as an "old tired 767, and pressing the TO/GA button. you'd expect a light airplane to climb". The A340 was just his least favorite plane because it has pretty bad climb performance. Steves favorite plane to control was the 757, because you could ask them to do anything, as it is a very capable overpowered plane. So, yes. Steve talks about this very incident in his Captain Joe interview.

[@joansorrentino266]

Thank God Steve was handling it! He's truly the best one of all!

[@starwarzchik112]

Makes me wonder what would have happened if he had been handling the Tenerife disaster. “KLM 4805 heavy, what part of ‘line up and wait’ do you not understand?!”

[@TheRaptor3945]

Same in France. When a plane isn't directly cleared for take-off, ATC always say "line up and wait". If the delta pilot hasn't noticed the mistake of the Aerogal pilot, this could have been a new air crash investigation story. Congrats to delta pilot for his awareness !

[@IntheeyesofMorbo]

props to the pilot/pilots of delta 122 for being so alert and on the ball.

[@Zandman26]

I think it's quite funny how many controllers that are prepared to rip Kennedy Steve to shreds here. Yet he has 27+ years of experience working with this. And has to my knowledge has both FAA's approval for his work and no actual accident on his record.

[@dizzyology7514]

Kennedy Steve (Stephen Abraham) was unquestionably one of the best ATC controllers at JFK, and he was awarded the prestigeous Dale Wright Award by the National Air Traffic Controllers Association shortly before he ritired in 2017, in recognition of his outstanding service to the profession. And there is absolutely no question that the Aerogal pilot was responsible for this alarming near-miss. He was cleared for 13L, he read back 13L, and it was reasonable for Steve to expect him to land on 13L. Sharp eyes by the pilot of Delta 122 averted what might have been a tragedy. It is also true that the Cararsie approach can be very confusing: this precise error was repeated on 5 December 2017 by a Volaris flight from Mexico City (kzbin.info/www/bejne/q5-XqXt9ipyVg9E ), and probably by others. It's an easy mistake to make. BUT -- having said that and repeating my respect for Steve, he did not handle the crisis as well as he might have. In an emergency, especially when communicating with a pilot who is not a native English speaker, the instructions need to be brief and very clearly expressed using absolutely standard aviation terminology. It would have helped Aerogal to react if Steve had said "Aerogal 700 GO AROUND, turn right immediately, heading 180, climb now to 2000 feet." Steve's obvious alarm, compounded by fatigue (it was the end of his shift and a runway change was being executed) caused him to waste words (which increased the cognitive load for the pilot) and to delay critical information (he did not give a heading until 20 seconds into the episode, after Aerogel requested one, and he did not give a "climb to" altitude until a full minute had gone by.) This does not change the fact that this was 100% Aerogal's mistake, even though it's easy to get this approach wrong. Nor am I dumping on Steve, as some people have done. I still consider him to have been one of the country's finest controllers. But nobody's perfect, and his reaction in this case could have been better.

[@flugjung]

@@dizzyology7514 I loved reading your analysis. It is so bad it is buried among the average KZbin comments. I have been in JFK several times, done that approach and even talked to Steve before he retired. I could even have a funny interchange the first time I flew to JFK (was a low time E-190 FO then) when another Air China 747 blocked our taxiway for almost 30 minutes (it was almost a recreation of the famous previous incident). When we could finally into the ramp, we both have a short but funny conversation. It is very difficult some non native English speakers to think in English whenever they are in an stressful environment. What happened to the Aerogal pilots was that they forgot to press the TOGA buttons. Their plane was climbing ver sluggishly as if they were circling to another runway and putting them in conflict with other aircraft. I was not sitting inside that cockpit but being myself a pilot in an airline from a Spanish speaking country, I have seen many of these things happen. Most are just small issues but it also happens in my country with foreign crews. ICAO English certificates keep a lot of people who should be at the classroom from crewing aircraft in foreign skies but it is factor. To me the worst ones are in Atlanta. They treat foreigners as if they own the place. Steve may have been not at its best but the Aerogal crew wasn’t too. They forgot to fly the aircraft. BTW, it is not that hard to line with the wrong runway if a correct briefing is not done firsthand. There are some buildings that block 13L after passing DMHYL final fix. That’s why guiding lights were placed.

[@realediciocco1598]

The pilot acknowledged landing on 13L yet he was lined up for 13R. He made a mistake. It is his responsibility to carry out the instruction properly. After a heads up from the Delta pilot Steve stepped in to save the day. He is not in the wrong here. The Aerogal pilot is.

[@lilbolko]

No matter what the pilot of the heavy recognized that he was cleared for 13L. So you can't say that he didn't understand the controller because he apparently did.

[@weebgrinder-AIArtistPro]

Ahh the "Canarsie approach".👍

[@bigride75]

listening to some of these pilots with the language barrier i am surprised there aren't more incidents

[@DanielCharry1025]

Yeah what you like - Position and Hold! Love this man at Tower :)

[@ualtim]

Line Up and Wait is replacing Taxi into position and hold to conform to ICAO standards. Apparently, some folks were confusing "taxi into position and hold" with taxi into position and go so the verbiage has been changed.

[@Eheld786]

I bet that guy got "the phone number to call"

[@ModanoTheBest]

Runways are named based on the direction they are pointed and how they are positioned adjacent to other runways. With parallel runways, 13L and 13R are pointed at heading 130, roughly southeast, with the L and R designating left and right. The pilot was simply in information overload. The controller tells him 13L, he reads back 13L, then lines up for 13R. Then he blows through his altitude on the go-around. These are basic mistakes that you would expect from a trainee in a Cessna, not a 767.

[@jdanon203]

Yeah the blowing through FL is really unexcusable.

[@dfc99nyc]

JFK very quick and professional. Good job.

[@marchesedesade89]

For people who has in mind hundreds of checklists and who's able to fly a plane, a left or right mistake is HUGE!

[@DiamondPilotDan]

good catch Delta

[@GTAGIS]

Thanks for your explanations. Thanks for sharing your experience, I do better understand why the pilot feel like lost !

[@markemanuele1929]

I will NEVER FORGET the first flight after getting my license. I was flying out of TEB, and I flew to AVP and back. On the way back I got cleared thru the NY TCA (as it was then called). It was very late (about 3am) and the controller was vectoring me around, and I was not quite sure where I was. They handed me off to TEB tower, but gave me EWR's Tower freq. I called TEB, and asked for RY lights on the ry they cleared me on (What I say outside was not right) (COntinued)

[@flyer737sw]

And that is the reason why you are trained to look at the approach end and departure ends of the runway before taking the active.

[@JDProductionsINC]

@oneofthemdeals Being a pilot myself, the FAA changed this back in the fall of 2010. The reason for this is that everyone else in the world uses "Line up and wait." Being part of ICAO, we strive to have consistency throughout aviation around the world. Also, because english is not some of the pilots' first language, "Line up and wait" is clearer and more direct, believe it or not.

[@bigdawg8369]

What small talk was he giving to that pilot. He gave him a simple instruction and he still couldn't follow it. Told him to stop at 2k and he went passed it. So therefore pilot wasn't doing his job and could have caused an accident. Ppl are so quick to jump on atc like they are always the cause of. Again, pilot fucked up by lining up for the wrong rwy. pretty sure approach didn't tell him to line up for it.

[@ibeturface]

First half is the coffee voice. Second half is adrenaline voice

[@bigdawg8369]

You would be pissed off to if you had severl aircraft taking off from one runway and another 100pd aircraft wanted to landed on the same one. Controller wasnt cranky as you say. You must have skipped over the 1st part of this video bc he was calm until the pilot decided to line up for the wrong runway. Then not listening to a simple 180 heading and altitude both of which came out clear and concise.

[@oneofthemdeals]

ahh. you missed the part where the aerogal pilot got the wrong freq.. i remember listening to this. this occured on a Sunday evening. that pilot was all mixed up...lol steve is one of my favorite controllers. he's got a great sense of humor...

[@DanielMori]

Four clusters of lead-in lights going for the left side, two clusters for the right side. I suppose those are the best references for pilots flying the approach.

[@JeighEigh]

it sounded like Aerogal was about to cry. damn i would be haha.

[@mmissthangg1]

it just goes to show that pilots have to be the eyes and ear for each other too.

[@bigdawg8369]

If you worked at an extremely busy airport that deals with SEVERAL aircraft from different countries and they dont listen to simple rules you would be pissed off to.

[@markemanuele1929]

I have flown that approach many times, and the first time I did, it was a little confusing as to where the runway was. Ry 13 L is quite a distance from 13 R. Still no excuse, If you look at the approach plate it becomes obvious which is which especially when you look for the approach lights...

[@notafanboy250]

Good catch. Also, it took tower almost a full minute to give Aerogal an altitude to climb to after issuing the initial go-around instruction. The climb through 2000 is a very quick one during a takeoff or go-around and easy to bust if tower doesn't assign it right away. Of course, Aerogal could have questioned the controller, as well. Unfortunately, as good as these controllers here in NY are, they're still humans.

[@connellrocraymond]

outcha pilot of delta 122. Quick thinking indeed. ATC did well too. Potential disaster avoided.

@oneofthemdeals Line up and Wait is used allover the world, it looks like it will be in use in USA too.

[@dpm-jt8rj]

@Daniel Mori Sorry to say the link in the description does not work. I will search for it 'cause now I am interested in seeing it myself. Another reason to maintain awareness, even at a controlled field. Too bad Steve retired, he is an example of an excellent controller.

[@marcopaul1]

the pilot of the airline removed the license by the civil aviation authority of Ecuador

[@bigdawg8369]

I understand that controllers and pilots alike all have an attitude. Fact of the matter is he lined up for the wrong rwy. That's no on elses fault but the pilot/co-pilot. He told him to climb and maintain 2000 and the pilot was passing 2400 when the controller told him to stop. And as per the FAA 7110.65 you may use plain language in place of standard phraseology when needed.

[@markemanuele1929]

(Continuation)The ry that was lit seemed to be the Wrong one. at the time TEB twr was closed but FSS was operating on the tower freq. I looked out of my window and saw a big EASTERN AIR LINES sign, and knew I was at the wrong airport. I went back to apc freq, and a very embarressed controller was waiting nervously for me to come back. He vectored me to Newark (EWR) by mistake. Thank God it was 3AM and not 3PM.

[@oneofthemdeals]

have you noticed now the JFK controllers now use the wording "Line up & Wait" rather than "position and hold" i wonder why? - i ve noticed listening to Haneda (Japan) ATC they too use "line up & wait" phrase.

[@bigdawg8369]

Hate to say it but it could be used the other way around always. If the controller gets a lil over excited or has a lil more volume in his in voice its for a reason. Its not like he was yelling or anything but I do understand what you are saying. The pilot/co-pilot shouldn't be getting more stressed out if they do then they also would need to find a different job.

[@wildgurgs3614]

2:34 The text says, "what you like", but I hear "One Three Right". I could be mistaken though.

[@oneofthemdeals]

@zseartcc25 u just showed who's child like with those classy profound words u just came up with. u showed a lot of sophistication.

[@jbskies]

@oneofthemdeals FAA decided to use the ICAO phraselogy "line up and wait" starting from 2010-9-30

[@merto31]

@oneofthemdeals Rules changed, no more position and hold intructions, it created hesitation that could lead to an accident

[@killerjake9000]

That was a close one - thats all I can say! I have there App on my iPhone.

[@risen25]

@oneofthemdeals how long did it take you to find out how to use the words profound and sophistication in a sentence.

[@aviadorsolitario]

@oneofthemdeals please can you post the edited part?

[@radtech21]

"You make a mistake, you start thinking about the mistake, you begin to make more and more errors. This is a very familiar syndrome. We call it 'checkitis' in aviation." -John Nance From 37:48 on PBS Nova's "The Deadliest Plane Crash."

[@bigdawg8369]

just a lil fyi there is NO PROPER phraseology to tell someone they are lined up for the wrong rwy. Controller did what he HAD to do to prevent an accident plain and simple. That's why they are some of the best in the business bc they get the job done

[@jaysmith1408]

those aerogal pilots are like, "wait, what?" they are soooo slooooow

[@lablastaz]

YUP, they've been using the same ATC system since the early 60's i believe. But not to worry, the FAA will implement a new system... eventually

[@shane95670]

sounds to me like the areogal pilot needs to go back to school to learn how to follow instructions. steve instructed him 3 times to climb to 2000 and maintain. and 2 times to make a 180 heading and twice for 200 and twice to turn right.... what a shame.

[@notafanboy250]

@oneofthemdeals They switched to ICAO phraseology. I think this change happened in the US in 2009 or 2010. No more "position and hold."

[@flyingtrashbin]

@Quillons1 yeah, i trust your opinion since it has been carefully considered. let it be so, they both shitted there in the cockpit. i guess there are lots of pilots like these as long as they go on making safe landings while confusing left to right.

[@AEMoreira81]

Curious: why didn't Kennedy Steve (the departure controller) tell JetBlue 43 to reject the takeoff? On 13R on an A320, one reaches V-rotate before V-1 on 13R...which is 14,000 feet.

[@MikeDCWeld]

Adam Moreira because JetBlue 43 was moving away from the inbound plane. Also V1 is required to come before V-Rotate (or so I've read in the comments on a video specifically about V1, V-Rotate, and V2).

[@msk7046]

@Eheld786 ---May I ask what that means? ('I bet that guy got the phone number to call')..... Thanks.

[@GTAGIS]

It was former company Avianca Ecuador !

[@Shak333k]

Wow... I wouldn´t wanna fly with them!

[@arvitolu]

what a shame on Ecuador..!.. Aerogal´s pilot didnt understand the instruction 3times.. shouldnt flight there if he doesnt speak english so good!.. ATC speaks clearly..!

[@YorranSlik]

First it was KLM645, then it was KL644? :)

[@trainspoterluca3225]

2nd callsign

[@creamyfilling102]

i don't think that guy knows what he's doing.

[@neonhomer]

Good ol Kennedy Steve..

[@cmdmd]

Sometimes comms are not very clear for every pilot. I can understand him fine, but I would have asked him to repeat a couple of transmissions for corroboration

[@tigersfan14]

cmdmd Aerogol pilot provided the correct read back for landing clearance. The pilot's read back was also correct when ATC called for the go around. ATC was not the problem. The pilots were at fault.

[@TheRaptor3945]

At 2:39, it looks like the AF011 pilot voice. Maybe it's not... but it looks like a voice with a little french accent.

[@RIXLAZZZ]

lol he is pissed at that french pilot

[@bigdawg8369]

LMAO #22 huh 2012 JFK ranked #17 in the WORLD. I don't know about you but I would say that is BUSY. When would you give a timely alt correction? After he just starts to climb to any given alt and then tell him "oh btw I need you to stop there". NO. The alt was given at the correct time. It is given in the missed approach, which is what the controller did. Told him to cancel his approach and told him to climb to a given alt.

[@risen25]

@oneofthemdeals FAA new REG. All Airports across the country does it.

[@FlyingPhoAddict]

@msk7046 Yeah tower told him to call so this guy could complain more.

[@bigdawg8369]

1st im not a controller in NYC. 2nd like ive said before there are controllers AND pilots with attitudes. I think your taking him being loud for having an attitude. As for the plain language being used he was correct and nothing wrong with that. Im pretty sure you dont fly anywhere I really do bc if you did then you would have OBVIOUSLY heard a controller with an attitude somewhere. So do us all a favor and STOP trying to act like you know what you are talking about.

[@kyCap222]

@oneofthemdeals They Changed it Line up is corect

[@dacmone]

I just found out about aerogal inccident today, this is bad for aerogal...i can see where this is going probably FAA will blame this pilot for not meeting the english language requirements.

[@MrCrystalcranium]

Oh my goodness....Thank you Kennedy Steve...I'm a relative newcomer to this ATC stuff listening in on controllers and I believe it's inevitable that a major accident will happen because of poor English speaking pilots lack of clear understanding of ATC instruction. The halting, minimal English displayed by pilots from Aeroflot, Alitalia, LOT, KAL, JAL and just about every South American based airline is terrifying! Maybe the guys in the towers are used to it and understand this has been going on for decades with no major incidents but I'm never getting on a plane from any of the above listed airlines. Just an aside, I think Steve loves the excitement of the freestyle, whirligig nature of being a ground controller than the boring, stock instruction job of directing takeoffs and landings. He sounds bored as hell here...until the incident of course.

[@MrZackattack2010]

Well to fly internationally they are supposed to have a good knowledge of English however I'm guessing these days they don't care anymore.

[@nim154]

How much ATController average salary at such airport? Job seems to be a little bit stressful.

[@oneofthemdeals]

@rjmwebdesign you can stop looking like a hero. i got ALL the comments about line up and wait. no need to jump in and flood my inbox with someone i already know

[@bigdawg8369]

BTW JFK has missed approach procedures which are clearly published as with controlled airports. So the pilot should have already known what to do if he had to do a missed approach. But, you should already know this if you FLY right? haha. also I didn't know the TONE in someones voice over a radio could be considered unprofessional js.

[@markemanuele1929]

OK, but since the description states that he was cleared for the Parkway Visual for 13L there is no missed approach procedure published on the plate. However if he was actually cleared for the VOR RWY 13L the procedure would have been as follows: MISSED APPROACH: At or beyond MAP (Missed Approach Point) , climbing right turn to 4000 on heading 100° and V-1 to DPK (DEER PARK) VOR/DME and hold.

[@00BillyTorontoBill]

@@markemanuele1929 So yeah 90 deg from the ATC vector....

[@americadecali45]

que verguenza!

[@DynastyLang]

jfk controllers is on it lol

[@fastfiddler1625]

To the guy who mentioned this. The phraseology "Line up and wait" has replaced "position and hold". I don't know why, to me "position and hold" sounds more professional.

[@wildgurgs3614]

Good question! "Hold" sounds too similar to "Go", so "taxi into position and hold" if misheard as "go", could be mistaken as a takeoff clearance.

[@bradjwill]

AeroGal should be banned from US airspace

[@AEMoreira81]

Avianca Ecuador (AeroGal) no longer flies from Ecuador to New York; the plane that flew the route was sold by the parent company to Jet Midwest, who has since leased it to a Thai carrier. LATAM has taken over the route.

[@cockatoo010]

Aerogal No longer exists as such. It got aquired by Avianca and no longer flies direct from UIO to JFK. Now it connects to Avianca 20 or AV 244 at BOG

[@flyingtrashbin]

@shane95670 sounds like you're a pilot for many years and surely know that going around in such heavy traffic and stress conditions is as easy as bicycle ride? besides they probably had before landing briefing about go-around procedures and when the controller tells you "oh, turn somewhere right..immediately!" it's such a mess. the pilot did a mistake but we all do. its easy to complain when you're seating at home, not at the controls of the jet liner that is about to collide with another one

[@brickan2]

Isnt it kinda stupid to name the runways with the same number with only a suffix in the end? Miss hearing 13R or 13L should not be able to kill hundress of people.

[@markemanuele1929]

Yes, but if the approach for 13L was in use at the time (meaning that arriving aircraft land on 13L, then the approach lighting system would ONLY be on for 13L and NOT 13R. According to the approach procedure a pilot is to follow the approach lights on the right hand turn to the runway. I have flown this approach many times back in the day when I still flew, and it is VERY OBVIOUS which runway you should be landing on (unless of course the wrong lights were lit, which I doubt very much since many other aircraft landed before him).

[@AEMoreira81]

When JFK is landing 13Ls, the approach lighting system may be on for both runways, as sometimes a plane may be cleared for 13R, especially Delta if the preceding aircraft is a heavy.

[@markemanuele1929]

Yes, but not if they are using 13R for departures. I guess that theoretically they could both be on, however I've never seen it that way (granted I've only flown into JFK when I was returning from Montreal late at night (when customs in Albany is closed) so maybe only 10 or 11 times).

[@oneofthemdeals]

@sioux0863 i get the picture now. no need to reply and be repetitive

[@PROFESSIONAPILOT]

FOR US -THE FOREIGN PILOTS, SOMETIMES, IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO CATCH THE NEW YORK ATC OFFICERS FAST AND NO STANDARD PHRASEOLOGY

[@MarkPentler]

***** To be fair, everything from the go-around onwards was wavering massively from standard phraseology, hence the confusion with where 700 should be turning to.

[@beepIL]

PROFESSIONAL PILOT bullshit, at least remove that "professional" prom your nickname if that is what you say, you have ample time to verify what runways are for landing and what are used for takeoffs, way before you need to speak with the ATC, landing on a wrong runway is pure pilot's fault, and has nothing to do with being able to understand comm chatter clearly, its down to being able to read english, and if you cant read english then you should not be an airline pilot to begin with.

[@roji556]

+PROFESSIONAL PILOT He understood what runway he should be landing on, he just tried to land on the wrong damn runway.

[@volante8657]

+PROFESSIONAL PILOT He doesn't play with the magic words, if he's that difficult to understand, he probably got fired and not becoming a youtube sensation

[@NeneExists]

He even read back the correct runway he should have been landing on!

[@11dlewis]

the controlers did nothing wrong in the Avainca crash The pilot never declared a fuel emergency which is the proper procedure. I am very sorry for the loss of life The controllers that day had alto to deal with with bad weather. They are not mind readers.

[@AEMoreira81]

The controller never heard the words minimum fuel (

[@HayesEntities]

lol. george carlin?

[@BTUvsCAL]

aerogal left the frequency at 3:25 and gets called at 3:41. Is the controler AWAKE?

[@BIGDROC99]

Emery Board Well considering the pilots inability to follow instructions, their is a high possibility he was still on the frequency and never switched. I’d be more concerned about this pilot then Steve.

[@Dimsumdimsum1]

Whats wrong with french people?

[@paulvincent3299]

really good wine and food

[@tiverton]

The nicer you are to New Yorkers the more they will be rude to you. You have talk to them the same aggressive way as they talk to you from the start, then they treat you with respect. JFK, and entire New York Approach for that matter, are no different.

[@babytweeze85]

Why do they title it/call it a "near miss"? It's a near HIT. A COLLISION is a 'near miss'. *BOOM* Oh look, they nearly missed....

[@radtech21]

@efastMixer Yeah, I noticed that as well, BIG F* up by the Aerogal pilots but definitely NOT helped by conflicting ATC instructions.

[@kewkabe]

The controller made it worse by telling him "fly runway heading" (while there was somebody rolling down the runway), then in the same transmission "you need to start a right turn" (which is non-standard phraseology and likely to be confused especially with foreign pilots). He should have said "go around, fly heading 180." And yes I'm a controller.

[@mariodela]

I feel bad for this guy, in the airport im training a private pilot lost his license because he crossed the line! he was told to hold short runway 13 and he crossed it, so i dont know what happened to this guy, i guess he lost his license or at least he got grounded, you can't mistake runways like that, anyway this pilots were flying an old 767 from ecuador. Any pilot that flies that 767 for about 8 hours has to be really tired at the end, he was really scared the atc wasn't helping the guy :(

[@brickan2]

I understand there is a logic behind it but the logic doesn't always conform to practice. Isn't it absolutely evident here that 13L should be called 13L and 13R should be called 14R. Yes, there would be 2 logical runways on one physical but at least the risk of disaster is lowered. The language barrier is shit - it must be taken in consideration when naming stuff. Some pilots dont seem to know english. You could even throw color names in there or whatever. More unique names, less misstakes.

[@AEMoreira81]

It's called 13L and R because of the magnetic heading---if it's true north, it would be 12L/30R and 12R/30L (and the perpendicular runways would be 03R/21L and 03L/21R).

[@comcfi]

OMG DID THEY DIED

[@brianwong7580]

This isn't a "near miss". If you nearly missed, it means you fucking crashed! This is a near hit.

[@seanfiskefiskesean]

Someone's been watching George Carlin again.

[@brianwong7580]

Sean Fiske Haha, you noticed :P

[@brandonp4]

***** Well put. Add that to the list of stuff GC ranted about due to a lack of caring to understand.

[@Ea-Nasir_Copper_Co]

If "lack of caring to understand" means "deliberately and maliciously getting it wrong to appeal to cool, edgy young jackholes", yes.

[@iuhoosier7282]

Joe Cool Controller, Steve Abraham shows in this tape why he is not as Cool as he thinks he is. There is a reason there are windows in towers. That is to look out of them to see what your traffic is doing. Obviously Joe Cool was too busy doing something else and had to have a pilot do his job for him. Nice call Delta, too bad Cool Steve did not catch what he was supposed to. Then when he is given the heads up by Delta Mr Joe Cool loses his shit and becomes Mr Nervous Controller. This guy should have been pulled from position and sent downstairs to think about his job and why he is paid $150,000 per year. As you can tell, all the pilots on the frequency do not trust Mr Joe Cool Steve and start questions all of his calls after this stunt. So much for Mr Joe Cool Controller . You are a disgrace to our profession AU REVOIR Steve.

[@MarkPentler]

Looks like somebody has an axe to grind. Gonna give us any more context here?

[@iuhoosier7282]

Mark Pentler No axe just 30+ years as a Air Traffic Controller that knows better. But then guys like you dont understand that, you just think sloppy work is cool. And criticism of inadequate work is not fair. Grow Up.

[@Minecraftmike5089]

iu hoosier exactly. if i recall, JFK has windows and radar. He should come try Canadian Arctic Control. busy airspace and its all procedural, no radar

[@kewkabe]

The worst is when he uses non-standard phraseology -- with a foreign pilot -- while trying to fix his fast-moving mess (what is "feel free to stop climbing" supposed to mean?). No wonder nobody knows what altitude and heading they're supposed to be at. This guy and the others on here who think being sarcastic and using non-standard phraseology is "funny" just make it harder for them to work busy traffic. That's probably why they're stuck at a mid-level tower. They'd come completely unglued trying to work somewhere the traffic wasn't already lined up and spaced out for them.

[@MarkPentler]

iu hoosier You know what? After listening to this again several months later, I fear you may well be correct and I apologise for my snarky comeback. I especially like the way Steve asks him to come back down to 2000, then switches his frequency, then tries to contact him again, seemingly forgetting he's no longer on his frequency. And if he'd have just gone "Go around, turn right heading 200 expedite/immediately" then Aerogal would probably have just done it straight off without questioning it. So, yeah... sorry!