What I Learned From a Toxic Tank

[@insanecurity]

I want to share a nice story I had when I started out as White Mage: Got an ARR dungeon on duty roulette, I was already nervous and sweating as it was going to be my first time healing. I got grouped with 3 veteran players, and there I was, an inexperienced sprout white mage. Told my teammates I was a baby healer and the tank decided to not pull big mobs at all. We only ever fought the enemies on our way one by one. Never more than that. We were slow and no one was talking in chat so I got a little embarrassed and in my whirlpool of emotions I accidentally died to a mechanic. I apologized in chat and made my way back to my teammates. When I arrived they were all standing there hyping me up and sending me kiss and hug emotes. They told me in chat that I can do it and they appreciated me and that I'll get the hang of it. It gave me so much courage and I felt so good after completing that dungeon, I still think about those 3 players from time to time and I am so grateful to them.

[@BlackRoseThornEtna]

loved this!! I know in my savage raids i always try to encourage people that are new to the fight espically if they verbally express how frusterated or sorry they are for making mistakes. Though this does make me remember a time when I had just returned to the game as a tank, my gear wasn't that great, where doing the new dungeon would of been a gear upgrade for me and I would pull one group at a time, I don't remember if said anything but the healer decided to walk a head and pull extra for me, I don't belelive i died but this was pretty frusterating.

[@JamieM5185]

You sound like me in my first dungeon as a healer! I thought I was gonna have an anxiety attack cause I was so worried of letting them down

[@MangyPL]

You mean 1 pack at a time, I hope? Lol

[@Controvi]

Had the same experience. As a Scholar and as a White Mage. I jumped over from Black Mage to Arcanist to get into the Scholar job and boy was I nervous when I had my first healing dungeon. But no matter what, every time I started a dungeon and said I was still new to the job, everybody in chat just send possitive vibes. Tanks telling me they will take it easy, dps'rs tellen me I could do it and not to worry. It was amazing. I now main a Scholar and have Sage and White Mage laying around to help a friend of mine who also started playing the game as Paladin. The community in large has been amazing

[@unixtreme]

I played sage for the first time not long ago and got in a roulette with 2 mentors. I explained it was my first dungeon and they kept encouraging me and saying things lol "you are a natural". I know they were just encouraging me but it kinda made me enjoy the job xD

[@Angels-Grace]

A small reminder for fellow Tank enjoyers: Arm's Length is also a defensive tool you should use in Dungeons.

[@legendofthewest2326]

as a Tank main i agree this skill is soo underrated.

[@umbriel706]

@@legendofthewest2326This, it took me a few dungeons into my ARR playthrough to get it through my head, better late than never!

[@Mor1adim]

Invulns are for trash mobs too

[@legendofthewest2326]

@@umbriel706 yeah thats true :)

[@Controvi]

When I tried to become a Paladin to try out tanking as a healer main, I constantly told people at the start of dungeons I was new to tanking. At the end I always got told I was better then 99% of tanks because they saw me use Arms Length XD

[@DICEBOY22]

I'm a Tank (Palidan, Dark Knight and Gunbreaker ) yeah I will do those kind of my pulls... but if my team cant handle I always follow up with a "my bad" and just pull less.

[@idno4856]

This seems less of a situation of the team not being able to handle it and more the rank not realising they can avoid the environmental effects while teammates can't. They could have pulled but then brought the mobs back towards the DPS (if they wanted to insist on the pull size)

[@carlsonjf]

as others have said. “Those kind of pulls” were never intended for ARR dungeons. Most jobs dont have the tools at lower levels (some dont even get AOE till super late). W2W in HW+ dungeons are 2-3 packs. This pull was 6 packs. So. Doing that pull at this level in that dungeon just shows the group that the tank doesn’t know much and definitely doesn’t know anything about the other people in the group. Hes a noob.

[@cressposting]

The best way to do this pull is to pull to that first light tpbget all the nixes as one pull. Then pull the rest with the boss. It's way easier than this massive pull and takes the same amount of time. The actual optimal way that there is no way would work in df is just to say pull and skip it all. Why bother killing trash if you don't need to.

[@leonfurry]

YES! Same! I always apologize for doing more than we can handle as a synergized group.

[@robrivera2645]

How about ask if the healer is ok with big pulls, this will prevent wiping and having to start over with smaller pulls. Look for your team mates as you are the Tank we all depend on you to get through the dungeon or raid in one piece. As a dps I don't mind the big pulls I've been playing the game long enough to follow the tank and wait until you have all the trash mobs pulled before I go ham on dps.

[@pprjackcheese]

My first toxic experience was when i was still a sprout, i was tanking a stormblood dungeon and i put my stance on, everyone started running to the pull i was doing, which is what i thought. my healer decided to not tell anyone they were afk at the entrance after moving. the dps all stood in aoes and i watched them just drop. they all said in chat "bad tank bad tank" and i then noticed at the top left the healer wasnt anywhere near us the entire time. i then said "sorry i didnt see our healer was with us, why are they at the entrance afk?" the healer then went "um.." then i was kicked from the duty and didnt touch the duty finder or tank unless i was with friends for several months. I got over it eventually but it still sticks with me that people like that are in the game. BE NICE TO PEOPLE THIS IS A VIDEO GAME! dont be a sore loser cuz you wiped one time and start flaming everyone cuz you stood in aoes that dont move.

[@Dracounguis]

Healing at a low level is actually harder than max level because all the tools you are used to having are not there! A smart tank would know that. Because they don't have their entire toolbox either.

[@RicardoSantos-oz3uj]

And because the "dungeons" at higher levels are just paths with 2 groups. With the exception of Mt. Gug.

[@Dracounguis]

@@RicardoSantos-oz3uj yes Square Enix has kind of formalized how they want dungeons run in later expansions. It's nearly impossible to do a 'wall to wall' pull and get yourself into an impossible to survive the situation.

[@shouter0086]

Not me panicking every time because all my usual ogcds (or sometimes just things like cure II) aren't available and pressing their shortcut won't do a thing xD

[@Lyu-Phy]

Yeah and enemies also hit harder as well, due to weirder pulls you can make in older content

[@danelwind2574]

Yesterday I was running a Dungeon on WM and recently got Cure II. Due to the dungeon level however, the skill was disabled and during a big pull some of us died (I felt horrible because I put Cure II in the key that previously had Cure I) I apologized and the tank was very comprehensive. Still, I sometimes get Healer anxiety due to bad experiences at other games.

[@kosbebot6360]

People keep discounting the role of dps in big pulls, but if stuff don't die quickly you'll be in a bad spot. Tank should have noticed dps wasn't there and backed up a bit for los.

[@Lyu-Phy]

People need to get it into their head: more dps = less damage taken, less healing/resources needed etc. A dps is a supporter in reverse.

[@dalgona4819]

This. I remember having such problems in EW dungeons, the DPS is too low that my mitigations and the Healer struggled. Sometimes the damage is so low you'd actually notice it.

[@Controvi]

I am a Scholar main but started using Paladin at some point to learn about tanking in general. It's not really my thing but wanted to see it from their side at least. Now that I know I usually call out the tank when he is moving too fast and I see the dps struggling. Having the party together is sooooo important.

[@cryzals2953]

I don't understand how you could discount them to begin with, like... they're normally the highest damage dealers, more damage given = less damage taken. Swear common sense is not so common anymore...

[@ovted129]

yeah often times W2W will use 2/3rds of my CD's as healer which means if they aren't going down fast I will reach into the last little bit and after that I'm out. my heal spams are on a soft enrage so to say.

[@aaronsmith784]

I've had similar experiences from time to time. Some people seem to think that the only factor in what makes someone a good tank is if they wall-to-wall every pull. In some of these older ARR dungeons, it very much displays the opposite. The ARR dungeons were not designed with those kind of pulls in mind, and while it still works fine in some, in others it does not. Actually talented tanks know the distinction, have a better understanding of what kind of abilities their healers have available at that level, and know what kind of pulls are manageable. The irony is that bad tanks like the one you encountered, who are obsessed with going fast, inevitably make the dungeon take longer by getting the group killed and forcing you to try again.

[@Lyu-Phy]

Especially because you never know how good the healer follows along, or the group as a whole, dps is equally as important as the healer and tank working together, the faster things die the less damage taken and healing needed. That is if the tank in question knows their shit, has the adequate gear (and also pays attention to the healers gear) etc. The same goes for the healer. All this has an extra layer of caution in older content and wall to wall is not always the answer in those circumstances. Generally yeah, but a solid tank knows when to be more careful. You see the behavior you describe all the time with players that think they got it all down, always airheaded and then shift to blame you for it.

[@onigirls]

@@Lyu-Phy Yeah exactly and the DPS is actually so important, the faster they clear the less risk there is of the tank or healer running out of resources (whether they were mismanaged or not). I don't get why people need to have an ego about this :/ As if they can't acknowledge that being adaptable is a very real part of being good at the game, not just doing the same thing everytime and throwing blame around whenever there are consequences for their actions :(

[@qamarqammar7629]

Especially when videos and guides keep telling new tanks they better be pulling wall to wall, with no cotext given to that statement, or they are bad. As you say, it can be done in the some of the older ARR dungeons with the right group, and in others, it just cannot. When I tank lower level content I do go fast when I can, but rule 1 is know your party. And if the healer or the dps are miles behind me then I'm going too fast. (And if the healer is running ahead and bringing mobs to me I'm going too slow.) But the truth is the game plays so differently at endgame that there are experienced high level players who have long forgotten how to behave in lower level content or remember how limited the kits can be. Example, it's true that Stone Vigil got all its bosses nerfed. But big pulls with a WHM in there often fail - because WHM has nothing but a regen and a Cure2 at that level and if you're expecting some Holy Spam you're going to be out of luck.Lower level content may be easy but it is the first content new players see and the place where they judge whether or not they will learn with us or just go with the Trusts.

[@myob2dac]

being mean to someone with a sprout icon is micro weenie behavior

[@kungfuvoodoo9889]

I love how they were also like this is an alt, you guys are just inexperienced without stopping once to consider having a shred of self-awareness and that Aitherea was making solid points about not having the higher level scholar spells ( cuz sure, a sprout scholar would tooootally know their high level toolkit at that point in the game). But yes, the more important point than the tank being idiotic was that they were being toxic and deserve to get reported.

[@ateezinx6448]

I think being mean to ANYONE is "micro weenie behavior". I do get that we should especially support sprouts but I feel like people keep forgetting that we're all just human and there's better way to handle situations, even when there's no sprout icon in sight. (But I do agree with what you said though)

[@ErdrickLoto86]

My first time being yelled at when I first started playing this as a actual sprout was when I was leveling BLM and was running Sunken Temple of Qarn. I got yelled at by another dps because I wasn't dpsing hard enough and mobs took long to kill. My partner was tanking and had a few choice words to that person. "Why would you yell at a sprout!" my partner said.

[@EluviumMC]

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.-George Carlin

[@leffed2109]

And these are the people who say "well if they can't handle it they should just use duty support" and then also complain that queue-times are long or that people are babies when they don't want to play with people in an MMO. People like this just suck and I am happy you vote-kicked them!

[@ghostfury530]

I'm truly happy you decided to talk about this. I (WoW refugee and wee sprout) was running the dungeon with the demon boss that has the door mechanic. I forget it's name. And I had a bard being very toxic towards me because I was trying to take the lead and figure out the mechanics of the fight since it seemed like our healer and other DPS were inexperienced with that fight too. The bard kept saying rude things to us after each wipe instead of telling us the mechanic and after I found out he knew the fight (3 wipes in) I asked him to do the door mechanic since I didn't have confidence in my ability to tank and do the doors. He proceeded to ignore me and we wiped twice more before he ultimately left with some hurtful parting words. Luckily we managed to kill it in 2 more pulls after I told the other members to let me handle the doors (we accidentally opened 2 doors with different symbols) and we beat it. The others players were shocked that such horrible like that guy existed but we ended up friending each other because of the the positivity we all shared despite it. Toxicity is the reason I left WoW and it was unfortunate to run back into it here. I consider myself lucky he was the first toxic person I met after 2 months on the game

[@idno4856]

At least you were able to find some friends through that experience! That's been the case for me in the past (tho that bard seemed to be on another level). But that kind of behaviour is more the exception than the norm

[@markup6394]

Maybe he was also an ex-WoW player? XD Nah, that was uncalled for, sorry ^^° Yeah, toxic people exist, sadly, and sometimes you're just unlucky. At least you three seemed to get along well, so... thats a win. Personally (also coming from WoW), in the four years playing FF14 I could count the toxic people on one hand - okay, both, four years is a long time after all :P Sometimes, people just have a bad day or... whatever. Cant be helped, but in general if somethings goes wrong, people dont flame right away. I had too many groups with repeated wipes and we all managed to keep our spirits up. Thats usually the norm :)

[@carlsonjf]

Sorry that happened. That is a crazy boss if you dont know the mechanics. I would bet you the bard didn’t know them either but was just enough of a jerk to want to make it your fault because you’re the tank and he’s an RDPS so he never has to take any responsibility or do any real DPS (seriously tho. Probably 10% of bards seem to know how to play and do good damage). No one would get all the way to the last boss and wipe that many times and then leave (and take the 30 min penalty) and not get any credit for the run if they knew what to do and they could just be done with it. If someone says they know the mechanics and die with everyone else and dont offer any help they are lying. Know this - most DPS love tanks and healers and are happy to spend any extra time to help you progress and learn all the things. When you run into anything else - they are the outlier and the exception. Blacklist them and hopefully you’ll never see them again.

[@idno4856]

@@carlsonjf I didn't even think about that in this instance but you're probably right

[@sammicopor]

Do what I do, if someone is toxic, report them & then put them on your blacklist

[@liquidcourage6414]

Had a similar experience recently; I have level 90 in all healers and 80+ in tank roles and ended up in Haukke Manor on the leveling roulette as a SCH. The tank (PLD with no shield equipped) proceeded to pull EVERYTHING from the start to the first locked door (which he also kept spamming chat with "door" wanting someone to open it so he could pull even more)). Initially I thought "Oh ok we are doing this?" so yeah, about 4-5 packs of mobs the maidens using their room ride terror ability making everyone move around and I notice that the tank isn't using any mit at all and no mobs are dead yet. Thats when it hit me that both of our DPS had no AoE at the level sync. So the tank died in seconds despite me spamming adlo and physick and anything else in my kit and of course everyone else followed. I suggested not pulling so much as we didn't have AoE "u don't I do" was all the tank said and did the same again. He also made a point to tell me to stop spamming shield and do damage; bare in mind he wasn't using any mitigation at all and had no shield equipped, so anytime I wasn't healing he was almost dead with that many mobs beating on him. I apologized to the others and left as this was clearly someone who thought they knew everything and clearly knew nothing.

[@Lequexo]

Yeah you can do this but you.. need your healer to run ahead with 20sec sprint to avoid line of sight issues during chip dmg that happens as the tank pulls... you need every little piece of mitigation on the tank with arms length... you need good aoe from your underleveled 2 dps... it's super likely to fail if not everyone is on the same page, so just do 2 frog pull and then the rest... which is like infinitly more easy for most random group in this dungeon and very little can go wrong.

[@YabbyUra]

Not to mention you’re not even 50 in this dungeon, so the limited CD suite you have at 50 doesn’t even apply here. Just painful all-around.

[@carlsonjf]

That pull is 6 packs of mobs. LOS issues are terrible. Most jobs have SUPER poor AOE scaled down to 44/46. You could do it unsynched ;) but in a standard group it just means the tank is really bad at their job and needs some more experience. If the healer was WHM you’d have the instacast regen while running that might help and then you’d have holy that might help but ALL 4 would have to be stood on top of each other and you would have to burn them down and even then its a 1:3 chance you could do it. It’s just dumb all around.

[@reddobr]

Something I read in a MMORPG forum twenty years ago just keeps proving itself true, with regards to random groups: "It's not worth it. It's never worth it.". Personally, if I can't vote kick the problem I just read the room and leave myself. There are games where there's a threat to stick around to the end no matter what (specially MOBAs), but in MMORPGs there is no such thing: as soon as you stop having fun, you can leave the group, Alt+F4, or even AFK if you're petty. You can't be held hostage in MMORPGs. And it's never worth it to stick around. Even if it was a healer issue, a good tank would just notice it and adapt, which automatically makes it no longer a healer issue. The nice thing about FF is that these events are few and far between. On other MMORPGs is pretty much 9 in 10 groups.

[@Controvi]

True. I can't talk about how much it happens in other mmo's but as Scholar I have in my 300 hours with it, had maybe 2 bad people start being annoyed by doing stuff I couldn't keep up with. The rest was always friendly and kind.

[@JayAshkevron]

It really is a lot rarer in FF14, I think thats why the bad experiences stick out so much. Most of the time if you mess up people offer useful help or advice and you just go at it again till you get it done.

[@ImmaPandaRawr]

I think some veterans players forget that Darkhold and Aurum Vale (maybe even Stone Vigil) have a sudden difficulty spike. For new tanks, healers, and to some extent dps it can be a hard change to adjust to. I’ve run into healers who can’t keep up because the tank insist on pulling huge pulls and they don’t know when the pull is going to end so they keep stopping to try to heal and then lose los and by the time they catch up everyone’s dying. Skill kits in low levels don’t offer as much which is another thing people forget. Sometimes new players just got a new skill and haven’t mastered how to best utilize it yet. I’ve seen new tanks try to do smaller pulls and then impatient players go off to pull more which confuses the tank. I’ve had a group wipe because of this due to an impatient bard who wanted to do bigger pulls overriding the sprout tank. Patience would help a lot. And just talking to your group on what everyone is comfortable with.

[@Controvi]

That's exactly my experience. Those dungeons are very hard on healers. Especially the barrier healers like Scholar. Man did I have nightmares on Stone Vigil after running it for the first time XD

[@WhywolfSenpai]

In my experience Brayflox's Longstop is another one like this because the incoming damage is a spike compared to the previous dungeon, a lot of dps still don't have aoe, and healer kits still don't have much to deal with it comfortably.

[@piicii86]

This and also I can imagine some tanks being over confident after the initial huge pull you can do in Darkhold because of the crystal light buff. But everything else tend to hurt a lot in there

[@Jeycht]

It's not the case anymore since .. I don't remember when. A long time ago. They have nerf those dungeons a lot. They are not harder than any other dungeons now. And let's be honest. Even as veteran I don't remember struggling back then anyway. The worst was Aurum and ONLY because of people standing in yellow pool taking tons of damage.

[@unixtreme]

​@@Jeychtthe pull she's showing in this video cannot be done on certain comps on leveling gear. DPS don't have enough AOE. Healers don't have enough cool downs, and they end up blowing all the CDs and just spamming their biggest healing GCD while tank HP dwindles down.

[@estel-randir]

You can't save stupid. But good on you for trying.

[@Kenshin6321]

I main healer, and I encountered a similarly toxic tank player on this same dungeon, except mine was even dumber. I had a tank with a mentor icon, do a full pull but in the first area where you have to stand in the circles and the boss hits you with a big AoE if you're not standing in the light. Well, the tank thought it was a good idea to do a full pull without the DPS, and didn't even bother to stand in the light. He put his mitigation on way too late and we all died. I said to him "What are you doing? If you don't stand in the light, you take too much damage." He said "I wasn't healing fast enough." I told him "I used nearly all of my MP trying to keep you alive, had you pulled correctly, we would have lived." He said "Maybe if you healed faster we wouldn't have died." I did not say anything else at that point. I was SO tempted to just leave, but I decided to stay because we did have someone who was new. Dealing with toxic players is REALLY frustrating. Thankfully, these types of situations are few and far between, but I can guarantee you most, if not all Healer mains have had to deal with toxic DPS and toxic tanks at least once. Whenever I'm tanking, I gauge whether or not the healer can keep up after the first pull. If I see he struggles, i take it slow, and I don't like taking it slow, but you gotta play within your team's ability. Even when I had a healer spam holy and forget to heal me and I die, I don't get frustrated with them, ESPECIALLY if they are new because maybe they are still learning and didn't realize I was that close to dying. I'm glad we don't have too many toxic player, but I say you handled it pretty well. Also thanks for sharing your story because it makes me feel like I'm not the only one dealing with these type of people. And from what I find, it's almost always people who have been playing for a long time and don't realize how bad they really are.

[@Aitherea]

If I die and it's the healers fault I'm probably not going to say anything because I usually don't see the point. Dying isnt the end of the world and it's literally just a game xD. Maybe theyre having an off day or just had a bit of tunnel vision. It's fine. I'll pull less and we will get through it xD Honestly, in most cases if i pull a lot and I die ill just be like "oop my bad, guess i shouldnt pull so many next time" cuz honestly i am not that good at tanking anyway xD

[@RicardoSantos-oz3uj]

Why is always a burger king enthusiast.

[@SilentAdventurerNumber02]

I main tank and I always watch my HP and the healer MP from the first pull. Am I dying? Is the healer running out of MP? Do I know if the healer have enough tools to keep me alive? From those question I can adjust the pulls. If everything is alright then I'll try to pull more, if not then I'll pull less.

[@BlackRoseThornEtna]

@@SilentAdventurerNumber02Usually in dungeons you can survive as a tank with minimal healing if your using your kit effectively even if it's just medical II spam, besides you aren't doing them any favors by taking it slow for them, as Yoshi pi has once said a game needs more pitfalls to feel rewarding. Exsample if you die because the whm forgot to heal during holy spam they will be more attentive next time, and try harder to remember to heal, even if it's only slightly more, if you pull less and they can get away with no healing and just doing holy spam they won't get thaht sense of accomplishment of remembering to jump over that hole. I know for me personally I get so frusterated when the tank dies because I didn't heal enough and than proceeds to pull less, so when I fall in the hole, I plug it up before I get a chance to overcome it. like I get it, they just want to clear the dungeon and not wait for me to git good.

[@Controvi]

May I thank you my fellow FF14 player for being a kind tank :) As Healer I appreciate you a lot haha. But seriously, thanks. I know how easy it is for a tank to get too focused on pulling as I tried my hand at it as well. But one of my first mistakes, when I started pulling multiple mobs, was trying to pull multiple mobs and not noticing the mobs drop off my aggro. It made me far more aware of what the tank has to keep track of and now try to support the tank as Scholar when I see signs of something going wrong. I always got kind replies from tanks thanking me for the heads-up :)

[@4NSW3RM3]

"Don't Roulette" something tells me these types don't have FC's or friends to raid with, which is why they use Roulette.

[@cyberdaikaiju]

I'm new to FF14, but this reminds me of back in the day playing Wow. It was the end of Burning Crusade, and I had nearly this exact experience while playing with randoms. The tank pulled so much so fast that it took all my mana to keep the party up. I asked to wait or mana, and he just said "No" and pulled the next two rooms. nobody followed him and he died. He raged at us all and told us we were all bad players, and said I was the worst healer in the game. Which was funny, because I was the lead healer in one of the larger guilds on the server I was on. We ended up vote kicking him, and the Hunter's bear took over main tank and we finished the dungeon a man down without any problems. Really soured me on playing with randoms for a while.

[@YueXiong93]

its the tank's job to gauge the healing and also damage to decide the pacing of the dungeons. its what i do.

[@Controvi]

I always appreciate the first words of a tank in chat "Healer, how fast can I go?" When I read that I usually know the tank has lots of experience and I know he can pull a lot without my constant attention :) Love that

[@vonkleistman7444]

A good point in the video is the importance of roles in a dungeon. No role is any more or less important than the others. DPS provide the most potent CC in any game by removing enemies altogether. Tanks protect the rest of the team. And healers provide the heals. If any of these pieces are missing, you will find that you have a much more difficult time.

[@MirandiLuna]

Another thing that sometimes happens when people play on alts is that they underestimate how much the gear sync helps when you go into these earlier fights, so they overestimate how strong they are with their alt's lvl 44 equipment.

[@shadowfox9490]

Right! I was just talking about this with my team (coincidentally ALSO Darkhold) the other day! I was healing WHM on an alt. I've done this dungeon a LOT on main (DPS/HEAL primarily semi new to tanking this game). And There was a PLD that bolted off, and took almost all 6 groups like the story presented in the vid, and our dps *were* with us, mostly, one BLM and well.. gotta let a turret BE a turret. Don't let their turret dreams be dreams! 😂 Anyway, in the end, we melted. I held up pretty well skill wise, but both myself and the tank had baby gear, and mine was almost 10 under mine. And PLD's was almost as bad plus they admitted it was due for repairs. The first thing they said in chat was, "Oof My bad. I'll pull less next time." To which I replied, "It's ok! My gear's fallen behind a bit, sorry about that." I then followed up with, "Let's try it again. If it doesn't work out, we'll do smaller groups." That's when they told me about their gear & agreed. We did a full pull, DPS were ready cuz they actually also read the chat (I love it when players pay attention to chat!! ♥ Even just for a hello.) and we knocked it out of the park. It was at the final boss we started chatting about how it's a very different experience on an alt compared to main. You wouldn't think so, per se, but honestly, the gear you're wearing, it's condition, it's native ilvl (seemingly and only to an extent) makes a huge difference in how much damage you can absorb, parry, dodge, and how much output you have. It's a very stark contrast going from even just 130 Ironworks to lvl 30 green dungeon drops!

[@vespi57]

I'm a Paladin main and I can tell this was not your fault, Aitherea. That corridor is a place where many parties have wiped due to overpulling. I tend to pull 2 mobpacks at a time here, because very often healer or DPS get left behind if tank pulls everything all the way to the boss. Even I have experienced what you have when I was healer here, but without toxicity. As a tank main, I know how important it is to keep the dungeon pace suitable for everyone. This guy clearly only thought about himself, and that is one of the worst traits a tank can have.

[@soldierorsomething]

But mr paladin, you have no heals before lvl 54, so pulling entire dungeons is not a good idea as a low level paladin :P

[@abbysaito5348]

Power of friendship will heal me lol

[@vespi57]

@@soldierorsomething You're right, and I never do that in low level dungeons. Besides, Paladin gains Clemency at level 58. No self heals before that. And optimally, Paladin should never have to use it.

[@glitchasaur]

As a tank you need to set the pace as you say and be sensible; if a healer can't dps then the tank/dps are the problem. I have played all but 2 classes to 80 and its really obvious.

[@under-dog5390]

DPS is a prime source of mitigation that often gets completely left out of the conversation. Stuff dying is the single best form of damage reduction.

[@Convii]

I had the opposite problem with a toxic healer. I was new to the game three years ago and was doing my roulettes levelling my main class, Paladin. I got Snowcloak as my dungeon and at this point I was semi decent, I was rolling my mitigation, I already knew to use arms length as an additional migitation and would confidently pull at least two mob packs minimum. This White Mage would use rescue to drag me forward against my will and bark orders at me and constantly belittle my skill as a tank just because I wasn't pulling enough even though I was using all of my resources and made the judgement of "If I pull anymore I will melt when all my cooldowns are used up". Thankfully after the second boss we were able to kick them. I got very upset at the time but three years later if the same thing were to happen I wouldn't back down and be passive. I was just a sprout then so its so filthy that some players think they are elite and get to smear toxicity at new players.

[@JayAshkevron]

I will go even further and say that anyone using rescue outside of pulling someone out of danger, unless they are playing around with people they know and are friends with, is being a toxic player.

[@MidnightEkaki]

@@JayAshkevron i was 'rescued' in a dungeon boss battle the other day however i was doing the mechanic correctly there were two spots you could go the healer thought there was only one so they messed me up and i got hit. i get people are trying to help but i dont think it should be used unless youre SUPER confident it will save the person because it was very annoying

[@kriesas]

As a tank main, that exact wall-to-wall pull in Dzemael is one I NEVER do, regardless of who my party is, solely because it's a huge pain in the ass for everyone involved to navigate all the AOEs, and nobody wants to put that much thought into an ARR dungeon. It forces both the DPS to sprint to catch up, the healer to use their single target heal and all their oGCDs, and it usually wipes the whole party if the DPS aren't quick about using their own mit tools. I've noticed that people really underestimate the damage that mobs do in dungeons- it's ALWAYS more than the dungeon bosses even if you only pull 3~4 mobs at a time. It isn't worth big-pulling if you wipe because of it. People also seem to forget or ignore that classes and party comps really do make dungeons harder or easier (i.e. WHM and DRK is miserable in dungeons because Abyssal drain doesn't heal enough, and Glare stun prevents TBN from proc'ing) and don't change their style according to the comp.

[@MacTaipan]

He didn't even have a point, because even if you had indeed been inexperienced, it would still have been his fault for not adjusting. You are right, this is the kind of behaviour that makes me play solo as much as possible.

[@idno4856]

Good video as always. I had a few situations like that when I 1st started SCH. Especially with tanks not understanding the difference between WhM and SCH. When I was 1st starting out (it being my 1st MMO as well) I always thought that it was my fault (and it was partly) until some random person pointed out that no, often it's just tanks not knowing how to use mitigation properly or not being positioned properly or not waiting for people to be ready

[@Aitherea]

There's also something to be said for situational awareness. Maybe the rest of the team IS a little slow or IS a little inexperienced... you've gotta assess the situation and work with what you're given!

[@dixieflatline1189]

I love healing - 15 years ago healers were always respected and everyone said “thank you for healing” at the end of a run. There were always rubbish tanks, some due to learning, some just muppets with bad attitudes. These days, it’s rare to see that level of politeness in MMO’s (although tank situation hasn’t changed :). My attitude to healing has been “healing PUGS makes me a better healer and i enjoy that - dont read chat if it gets toxic”. If it’s really rough, leave.

[@kaibabun]

Started Dragoon about 2 weeks ago. My friend tanked for my first dungeon with two randoms, pulled everything like this. The whole party cycled deaths 6 times. I had to convince him to stop because the healer clearly could not heal him fast enough, the reason doesn't matter. I think it's very clearly communicated (through gameplay & some encounter design) that you should pay attention to your party, regardless of your role. I've had the same incident at the same place in Darkhold, where the tank ran away with everything and didn't adapt to the party. I have always wanted to play a healer, but it's insane to me how severely misused the tank role is sometimes. If you have greater (relevant) means or control, when you fail to notice something, it matters way more.

[@Unserioussam328]

Tank friends. Remember you're part of a team. Your face being melted off means the dps do not explode into confetti. your healer pressing buttons on you means your melting face will go back to looking pretty after the pull. and your dps will thank you for your eyebrow sacrifice by beating up those guys who just blasted your face off. everyone does their part. if someone struggles you do not insult them for it. you ask if you can do something differently so that the team can work better. if the dps ask you to clump them tighter then you best try. if the healer is worried you don't have enough mit for something you consider your options. .. and if *you* have any concerns you talk to your team. not yell at them or make accusations. "was this pull too big? did I forget to press something? .... was my tank stance turned off?" ...I uh .. I did that last one personally a few times. oopsie. many black mages have perished due to my negligence.

[@earlyoungjr2320]

Sooner or later abusive asshole tanks will find their name on so many blacklists they won't be able to play with anyone. Also, any tank that feels so obligated to make pulls like that, should probably not be playing a tank to begin with. If you're a tank and do these things, stop, swap and play dps....

[@Luabretas]

I just had a similar experience on this same dungeon today. I play dps and the other dps and healer were sprouts, tank was a 'veteran player'. We died 4 times before even reaching the first boss and when I suggested smaller pulls the tank just said no, the healer needed to learn to swiftcast resurrection. And then during the first boss, tank didn't even know the mechanics, I had to keep telling him to bring the boss to the light. Kept dying again on the way of 2nd boss, tank keeps blaming healer. I just quit the dungeon, could not stand the toxicity and arrogance

[@RubelZaman]

That toxicity was on a different level. You are not at fault. That player had some serious issues. There's always 1 who kills the mood for everyone but the majority of players are good people. Keep up the good work.

[@Bunstonious]

I think that guy takes to heart the old adage of "If the tank dies its the healers fault, if the healer dies its the tanks fault and if the dps die it's their own fault", while there can be some truth to that there is a lot more nuance and I think that he wasn't a skilled enough player to realise that. I have been playing MMOs for about 17 or 18 years and I can say that sadly this is far too common (and thankfully Final Fantasy XIV has much less of that), and I can definitely relate to what you're saying. Not Final Fantasy but I was picking up a healing Paladin after like a 4 expansion break and when I tried one timewalking dungeon the tank absolutely flamed me for us wiping to the point of me actually not wanting to pick it up again for a good few months or more, and even now I still am hesitant. I had been doing fine for ages, and I am experienced with Paladin healing (Had been doing it since 2006) and yet even I was questioning myself, I can't imagine how new players would feel. When anyone complains that certain roles are limited the first thing I say is: "well, the community did this", because they drive people away from those high stress roles. Special Note: I also don't think the major content creators constantly spouting "healing is braindead" or "Healers should DPS and not heal" really helps the discussion and instead actually makes it toxic, and also makes newer players feel inadequate and not want to pick up the role. We just need to be kind to each other.

[@shouter0086]

I'd like to add one thing here, the "If the tank dies it's [...]" has a second clause: "If we die, it's the healers fault and if it was not the healers fault, it was the tanks fault. But, if it was not the tanks fault, it was the DDs fault, which cannot be, so it was the healers fault".

[@electroarray6226]

Unfortunately there is always toxic people in large communities. Whether because they had a bad day or are just baby raging. Best thing to do is ignore them and move on... something that not everyone can do, as everyone has different levels of self esteem. I do hope your video can reach out to individuals who have been on the receiving end of this and help them move on from these experiences.

[@RicardoSantos-oz3uj]

I would argue that ANYONE has the possibility of being toxic at any given moment. As Joker would say, all it takes is a bad day.

[@SilentAdventurerNumber02]

"People pull hard all the time" Yeah no buddy, especially in anything under lvl 50. Tanks and healers lack the tools to do big pulls at that level. And if your healer runs out of MP, then it might also become the tank's fault for needing that much healing to begin with.

[@freepeanut333]

i think most people pull everything wall to wall between bosses, except for this dungeon and Dusk Vigil

[@KitsuneCode]

Well that’s not true 😣 I’ve done every role in these dungeons and all wall to walls. It just takes synergy.

[@1braincellwhm]

This is horribly wrong. Every dungeon is w2w, there are no exceptions.

[@RicardoSantos-oz3uj]

@@freepeanut333 Even in Dusk Vigil. It just make the ride more chaotic.

[@xenomorpher5458]

​@@1braincellwhm give me your character name and server so if I get you as a healer I can just leave and save myself the toxic screeching that follows. There are some dungeons such as Aurem Vale where wall to wall will not only wipe the party but does it consistently without exception.

[@Brawneteer]

I've done this pull before. Recently, as a matter of fact. The difference with that was that I'm leveling WAR, and the instant i got to that last corner to block LOS on the ranged adds to force them to come closer and everything caught up, I Holmganged and popped every defensive cd i had after the holmgang wore off. If we ended up dying, then that's on me for assuming my team is ready for that kind of pulling in pre 50 dungeons. Even if we died, there was a good chance that we killed a few of the mobs and that makes the next attempt at the pull easier.

[@fear7037]

Thank you Aitherea for making this video, for calling this people out, i play healer alot its one of my favorite things to do in xiv and i have faced alot of this type of toxicity which made quit healing for sometime but i learned to over come it and i feel much better about it now, tanking on the other hand ive feared it since i got to lvl 80, i was still learning it and i have dealt with alot of impatient and rude players which made me stop playing tank for months and months but i was able to over come this fear with the help of my boyfriend and friends who help me over come my fear of tanking and let me actually learn it, its really sad how new players stop playing a role that they actually like because of this type of players who act as if they know about everything, i really hope new players get to see this video and feel a bit better if something like this as ever happened to them.

[@jay.c2097]

I have a story to share too! One time I queue’d for Leveling roulette and got Zot but they were about halfway through. I asked as I always do out of curiosity what happened and the healer said something along the lines of “Tank got mad at me for not healing them good enough and left. I’m sorry I’m new to healing.” So maybe I could’ve just pulled a little for the rest of the dungeon and I did. We did one pack at a time until the very last pull which is a big one. I W2W’d it and tanked literally as best as GNB could at that level (which is pretty high but still lacking HoC) and we got through it smoothly. Had to stop afterward and applaud their healing because I know it must be a confidence boost after what the previous tank had told them and they honestly did do an amazing job keeping the team alive. And even in the last boss room they kept their composure and kept the team alive despite that one having a lot of mechanics to dodge. I really hope I helped turn their spirits around after a toxic tank might have turned them off of healing. And I hope they’re still healing because it’s really fun in this game!

[@Momokujo]

When EW was about to come out I decided that I would challenge myself to play healer for every piece of content that came out, MSQ, Exs, Savages you name it. I had some prior healing experience but not too much so I really wanted to push myself to learn. I decided to lvl WHM and AST though the story and had MANY good and bad experiences. But, one that will always stick out to me was during my first run of the lvl 81 dungeon. There is a pull after the first boss that was pretty challenging with one of the mobs hitting pretty hard. I had a DRK and I was on AST at the time. One of our dps had said that they needed a moment so we waited for them, then not even 5 minutes after the tank just popped sprint and went in, I followed after with the other dps in tow. The tank died due to lack of dps and I remember panicking and raising them but they declined it so we all died. I said in chat, the other dps was afk why did you pull? The tank only said just heal more dumbass. I didn't know what to say besides just I'm sorry I'm still trying to get used to healing. The dps quickly defended me and told the tank that it wasn't my fault but his for not waiting to which the tank only retaliated chewing out the dps for being afk. I didn't know that you could kick people at the time so I just waited for the pull again then I got the pop up to kick him and said yes. He was kicked and the two dps were encouraging me telling me how good of a healer I was and that I shouldn't let this experience ruin healing for me. And I'm happy to say that it didn't, I went on to heal the first savage tier and the ex's week one and I appreciate those two dps for picking my spirits back up after that tank.

[@ErdrickLoto86]

I've dealt with this kind of behavior back when I started playing WHM a few years back. It was my first time healing Eden. I was trying keep the party healed however I had that one person balking at me for constantly dying and not keeping the group healed. I got so discouraged and upset and my partner who tanked the trial saw this, barked back at the rude player and told me let's leave, and we did. It took me a while to pick up healing again. From that experience, I've learned I don't need that in my life. If I was in that situation I would quietly just leave and try again later. But that's just me. It's unfortunate people are out their like that. Sorry you had to go thru that.

[@Dracounguis]

Your tank was stupid. 🤦 That's a rough patch even if you go slow. The first couple sets with the frogs can kill a party even without Leeroy Jenkins-ing the whole thing. Not to mention that LOS is broken quite frequently. So there will be no healing unless you are right on the tank's ass. Being smart and going slow will get you through there FASTER than a trying to speed run it and wiping multiple times.

[@gokkiyoutube]

After listening for 2 minutes (i'll continue!) the toxic tank made some basic mistakes. My take is: * This pull is possible if you're in a premade group on voice chat coordinating, or have a chat before the pull to make sure everyone is on par with it * Due to the lack of coordination (tank just went ahead without asking), the rest of the party couldn't follow due to those crystals * At lower levels, healers and damagers have very few tools to deal with damage on the go, healers especially need to stop and cast a few times, not a lot of oGCDs * The tank can survive the pull while moving because the enemies don't do much damage, once they all catch up the tank will get PUMMELED. Even with cooldowns the healer must be ready at the destination to spam heals while the damagers quickly kill the enemies on the way and at the end before cooldowns run out In essence - tank was a karen, expected behaviour without coordinating. Tank was also dumb for expecting such behaviour from sprouts. If it were me, i would just stop and let the tank die and run back to the start of the pull, maybe the rest of the group would survive half the pull that runs back after tank dies.

[@MaakaSakuranbo]

Eh, just feels the DPS were too scaredy. The single crystal explosion isn't going to kill you. You have Second Wind or stuff. You can often dodge frmo one crystal explosion into the other since they're slightly offset

[@gokkiyoutube]

@@MaakaSakuranbo Sure, but sprouts don't know that. You can't realy do this in a lowlvl dungeon without a premade group of experienced players.

[@simonburton774]

So i want to share a similar thing but instead of toxic tank it was a toxic dps, me and my partner do roulettes together daily, depending on what she's working on will depend what i decide to do as i have all classes at 90 and she's working towards that, i was tank specifically paladin and she was astro, we had a friend we know irl who's also in our fc who was running roulettes with us and he was black mage, we then had a random person who was monk and we got the violet tides dungeon from the stormblood expansion. This happened at the beginning of the dungeon, i was doing small pulls for two reasons, 1. my partner has Healer/Tank anxiety due to thinking she won't be good at these type of classes and due to how some people are at a single thing gone wrong, 2. it was our friend's first time here so we had to explain mechanics and we wanted him to take in the beautiful scenery of the dungeon. the monk had other plans it seems as they decided to rush ahead and come back to the group with all the mobs, i had to take aggro cos naturally if this many went unattended they'd go either for healer or the dps, so i was very unhappy, my friend decided to type for me whilst i was dealing with the enemies basically telling the monk to not pull ahead as pulling enemies is the tank's job, they replied saying "no point doing small pulls and the healer can take care of it" bare in mind she's going based solely on my partner's level and nothing else, i then started typing saying "no, im not pulling more because (same reasons i put further up)" to which they then decided to be condescending towards her being like "aw the level 90 healer has anxiety" (bare in mind my partner only has 2 level 90 healer classes one of which being scholar which levels with summoner) i ended up saying "instead of being condescending how about you decide to be considerate and think of others rather than just yourself" after that they just replied "nah" then left. honestly the attitude was ridiculous just due to us not wanting to rush through like they did and we get this quite a bit it puts her off from doing roulettes at times

[@Randomrenn98]

I'm the healer in this situation and honestly It is still very scary for me to heal in dungeons. When I started healing as a WHM (on an alt at first) I went in Cutters cry and got 3 very rude players who weren't nice at all and it put me off healing for such a long time. I think it absolutely horrible for people to put down other players like that when they are learning and need time to grow and try out the class. For the longest time I stuck with doing Duty support to avoid interacting with people when I was healing but my partner and FC helped me. If I didn't have them in the party I don't think I could go in and Tank/Heal by myself.

[@Lindormking89]

Ive been playing tank on and off since ARR was relevant content and have my fair share of toxic people trying to disparage you for playing poorly, my favorite thing to see is new players trying out and enjoying the game, i also like to be one of the friendly folks who like to encourage other players to try other jobs and just have fun with the game. To this day i still use the trust system and duty support just so i can learn the fight on my own terms. (Yes the ptsd is that great, i was terrible starting off)

[@brianduncan5282]

I think this is why a lot of people say they hate healing. People can be rude and there’s no reason to be. I once got chewed out when I was a sprout healer.

[@adakahless]

Ah, Dhazamel...the one place where tanks get greedy and sprint too far ahead only get to pwned and blame the healer for their stupidity. I've had a tank use all his mits at one time and then proceeded to tell me to tank the rest of the dungeon. I mean I was on a level 80 whm at the time but we were synced so that wasn't going to happen. >_> Not my fault he lost all his mits and I didn't have all my skills. I left the duty, took the penalty, and went on with my life. So far the only toxic person I have ever been in party with on Hyperion.

[@Remetsu5]

This pull is one of the hardest in the entire game to wall to wall. Not really possible without good coordination and setup with jobs

[@Nslygh1213]

That’s like 4-6 mobs of enemies, including multiple areas where line of site if cut off. The tank basically asked for death on that one.

[@buwumet]

I'm very glad I haven't seen many toxic people in my ~740h so far. I could probably count them on one hand. Thankfully, the community is extremely polite and nice. I had my doubts when starting healers but very quickly the positivity regarding mistakes and hiccups made me enjoy healing aswell as dps (i was a huge dps main)

[@Kuhazan]

I have had many of these types of things happen. One time I was the tank and got a join in progress with a healer that thought Esuna was a heal. I did not vote kick or any of that I offered to help because the dungeon in question was The Grand Cosmos and I was just like "the game is just going to get harder let me help you." but they did not want help because "we got through it so it is fine" I carried them through that dungeon and solo killed all of the bosses with the power of Clemency. I just assumed their native language was not supported by the game and they were struggling to get through or something.

[@StrangeILife]

This reminds me of levelling my dark knight back in Stormblood, catching up to level 50 for my friend, who wanted to level samurai with me. Also dzemael, but the dps (I queued alone) ran ahead before I even started pulling and I, as a new tank, had trouble keeping up and getting the aggro back. This went on for the entire dungeon and we managed to clear just fine, but I felt so stressed out during the run, that I didn't want to tank anymore. Fortunately the dark knight story made me continue playing it and also my friend was, from that point on, always in the party, so that I felt more comfortable. I levelled all of the other tanks together with him as well and now I'm even a tank main lol

[@pemuri]

As someone who has been interested in playing tanks lately, I agree with this. Trying to do things for me without letting me do them puts me in serious stress and makes me not want to play tank any more. I'm doing my best to get the aggro back on me and position myself properly but this gets pointlessly tiring. Experienced players can also go ahead and get the aggro cuz they want bigger pulls and finish quickly but you know this still causes the same stress. I'm so glad I'm not the only one experiencing this. ;-;

[@kennyg752]

was not expecting "leave a sacrifice for lord algorithm". gave me a good chuckle. great vid

[@kostanyanya4412]

When I first tried out ff14, the first class I chose was a healer class, I had zero experience with the game, much less any other mmo so I was a noob noob, and ater a few bad experiences playing with party finder teams, I stopped playing all together for a year or two. I only recently started playing again after my sister got into the game, but I'm still scared to do dungeons and such with real people instead of npcs because of this, and I wasn't even a healer this time around. I wish I had a better experience when I first began playing because I'm sure I would enjoyed my time playing a lot more than I did, and would have continued playing the game instead of dropping it altogether.

[@TheBanjur]

Sprout healer here, had a toxic tank rage typing at me mid fight how to do my job (not avoiding aoes while doing so) flamed me for another min after dying before rage quiting. After completing the dungeon with a new tank, I logged out. The good experiences vastly outweigh the bad, but unfortunately it is the bad that get stuck in our heads I think.

[@fishythom5910]

i fear this pull so much, as a tank, as a healer, as a dps. however i just learned that there is a debuf that gets applied to the tank here that has to be removed immediately or the tank will die. once i knew to look for it, it wasnt so scary! I have played this game for 10 years and i never knew of this debuf and i was so grateful the tank mentioned it in my last run.

[@Aitherea]

LOL MAYBE THAT WAS IT. But then tell me as much QQ if theres something to esuna just tell me LOL. Aint need the attitude xD I'll have to watch for that next time and see lol.

[@fishythom5910]

yeah they really werent being helpful, i wouldnt have noticed it either if someone haddnt told me!@@Aitherea

[@Hugo-MTX96]

​@@Aitherea yeah jerk angler fishes always apply a physical vuln to the main target in that dungeon, luckily it is esunable

[@xenomorpher5458]

​@Hugo-MTX96 can confirm as a person who started as a healer main and has leveled every class but blue mage through this dungeon. Those little ball mobs do indeed throw a physical vulnerability on the person with the highest aggro.. many a run had resulted me running the mobs around as dps while the healer popped the tank back up.

[@Saluuntv]

I started playing again 3 weeks ago, started leveling a Machinist from 38 to 90 (hit 90 today first time). I ran many dungeons and trials till 80 but I have not had a toxic experience yet and I died quite a lot, people have been very kind and forgiving to each other and to me so far.. however after I finish Endwalker's MSQ I will probably start leveling a healer and a tank for the first time ever in this game so I will probably run into some toxic people. Also I'm sorry this happened to you.. always sucks when you have to deal with toxic people.

[@Aitherea]

Congrats on your first 90! Luckily, toxic players are not the majority. In all my years playing this game I can only remember a few experiences where someone was being a jerk.

[@NocturnalAce]

From my experience, let's just say that I filled up my Blacklist in the game WAY FASTER than my Friend List. 🤣🤣🤣

[@SammaelGwyn]

I started out as a healer but I am more of a tank now. When I am running ARR dungeons I am usually very cautious about pulling everything. Most of them are not meant for wall to wall pulls mitigation resources and healing resources are limited and you often waste a lot of time wiping if you pull too much. Yeah the tank here was in the wrong. I would only try to speed run ARR dungeons if I was with a tank:healer that was on board with that, not with people from roulettes.

[@Sta-ol7tv]

I wish all tanks were like you some of the ones I get almost make me get a heart attack 😂

[@Sapphirerosewolf]

Loot and in combat you can't vote kick, yeah This is also why I will actually stop in a dungeon when loot is being rolled on or say "I need a quick brb" and make an excuse like "doggo aggro" to wait out a loot timer. Or I'll just use auto translate and say "please roll for loot" to make it OBVIOUS why I'm stopping. But also this is why unless the tank is REALLY good I never give the com to the tank, it always goes to one of the DPS (I'm a healer main too) Also I swear DD is where all the toxics come out to play the hardest. I had a tank who wouldn't pull the first boss into the crystals so we could ACTUALLY DPS the boss. Got to find out the hard way that even Limit Break does nothing if the boss is not in the stuff. Then again with Mentor Roulette and getting Garuda EX where my also a mentor coheal decided to just be dead weight on the floor ALSO isn't a great look.

[@pokegamerxz]

I had at least 2 times where someone was toxic. I was a tank at Stone Vigil, and I was not that good at tanking. I tried doing a big pull since that is what most people i thought do. I didn't know 1 of the dps, and the healer was also a newbie with worse gear than what I'm used to. After wiping twice, I tried asking what can I do to improve. The other dps was told me to pull less, which I did. But after the Dungeon was over, he said l2p before immedeately leaving. The second time was when I was a healer. I'm also bad at healing and told everyone I'm kind of new and would love some feedback or tips. The tank typed something, but I missed it. He then stopped tanking and got angry at me. I scrolled up, and the only thing he asked was, "Do you want some tips?". Afterwards, proceed trash talk me because I don't understand what's the problem. I thought, "Can't you just say the tip and move on? He then said some mean things and left. We cleared easily after a new tank joined.

[@Madlyaza1]

That dzaemel pull u talk about is basically one of the only wall to wall pulls I don't do unless I'm premade. I am a total supported of do everything wall to wall. This pull is the one pull I will think "ye okay let's do it 50/50"

[@jasonstevenson6986]

It depends on the tank type. I can get away with that pull on a warrior but I wouldn't even try on a dark knight.

[@JamieM5185]

I’m sorry you had that experience. Being a veteran or a sprout nobody deserves that. I am an Xbox Sprout and started with DPS but have recently started a Scholar and it can definitely be stressful! Luckily I haven’t had any negative experiences as of yet and everyone has been so kind and helpful ♥️

[@lunamayham]

I'd like to just say when I started back in 2017, I picked up WAR for my first class. I ended up being scolded for not playing the class right (I never touched FF as a series before this) and it gave me some pretty bad tanxiety. I played purely dps up till EW because my mindset was if I'm just another dps, I can hide in the crowd. Post EW came by and I told a few friends I wanted to try tanking again and I've gotten over most of my worries. It's insane how daunting even the smallest things can be for sprouts if they're blamed instead of having things explained in a calm way. Now I ask if healer wants small or wall to wall before engaging. They dictate if I live or die, so it's best to be friendly towards them.

[@rednova2173]

As someone who also prefers to play Tank (Main GNB, WAR 2nd) I never do that pull in that dungeon. Normally I'll do double pulls but if the party is struggling with that I'll back off. The other day when I was in Sirensong Sea for Leveling roulette on an Alt I asked in chat "Good to double pull here?" the Healer responded with "Yeah" so I did it. The Double pull I'm referring to here is the one right before the last boss because even with only 3 enemies in that double pull it can be rough because of how much damage even those 3 can do.

[@rurigokou433]

Yes this pull is 110% doable if everybody is pushing their buttons and sticking together. Healer has limited resources and tank cooldowns don't last forever. Sounds like the "inexperienced" one was the tank. And if they are "experienced" they definitely lack critical thinking skills or have never played a low level healer before. Anyone who has any real experience in this game doesn't act this way.

[@castoputa]

I got flamed out in a dungeon as an Astro back in the day and I was too afraid to do it with others for like five years lol, I met a lovely static group and we did Bozja for days until I was war damaged but had my healer mojo back. A hex on that tank! May he never win a roll on a mount they want ⚡️

[@LukazDane]

Tanks that act like that are exactly why i don't do roulettes or savage raids anymore as a healer main. The community of 14 at large is pretty great, but way too often someone with a mentor icon will pop up in a dungeon or raid and just dress you down for the most minor of things. I WANT to learn new savage tiers and do more expert roulettes and dungeons and things but it's just not worth being berated and talked down to CONSTANTLY because the tank mentor has decided that he must pull everything in the world, all at once, and refuses to stay in MY healing range WHILE I'M CASTING!

[@Norxet]

When I played that dungeon as a sprout DPS I got carried so hard that when I went trying to learn to tank I didn't know any mechanic of the dungeon I abandoned ashamed because someone said I was probably a bot because of how bad I was playing I love the trust system because I can learn the mechanics without embarrassing myself again

[@ThornedLily]

I think the game and community are having some growing pains at the moment. Obviously there are always going to be toxic people in any community over a certain size, but I think with all of our new Xbox friends being able to join the community there's a learning curve to the etiquette this game's community has and some of them haven't quite figured it out yet. A friend of mine stepped away from the game for about a year and a half and recently came back and made an alt to re-experience the game and all the changes that have been made since they were originally a sprout, and they've had a really bad time in roulettes and even when queueing into MSQ duties through the duty finder. I like to hope that this is just a temporary issue and the overall helpfulness and kindness will come back to the community soon.

[@syav4467]

I main a Sage. My Secondary is DRK. When I tank I am accutely aware of and sensitive to the healers needs, and try to pace myself accordingly. If they can handle big pulls, cool. If they don't seem like they can, slow it down for them and it's also cool. I also don't leave the DPS behind. As a healer I will do whatever it takes to keep a tank alive but out of resources is out of resources and that is that. The tank may drive the group, but the healer sets the pace. After a certain point I wont bother with a tank that is being dumb, and rude, and is not open to what I have to say as a healer. Some tanks are just dumb and bad and there is just no fixing that if they aren't going to listen and hear what is being stated. There is no point in beating yourself up over something that is out of your control.

[@BlackRoseThornEtna]

your tank is Dark Knight? I feel bad for your limited self sustain. I wish you better luck in dt

[@syav4467]

@@BlackRoseThornEtna Well it is fun, and with a good healer I don't need more than Darkest Night. Perhaps you should hold on to that luck seeing as how I think you need it more. I appreciate the toxicity though.

[@RicardoSantos-oz3uj]

@@BlackRoseThornEtna After level 70 is great to just be able to use TBN. We do not need the baby wheels of other tanks. We are pure tanks.

[@BlackRoseThornEtna]

@@RicardoSantos-oz3uj it's just dungeons so most of the time having extra self sustain isn't gonna save you, your just more reliant on healers. At least shadowbringer is strong.

[@Nienna_Asyare]

This reminds me of an experience where I had a ranged dps in party who *exclusively* used peloton only in combat -_- and I just said either to the aether or in the friendliest, kindest way, that it has no effect in combat and it’s best to use between pulls and the dps had the gall to be like “stop being rude” and the other two ganged up on me too. Made me want to not try to help people again. However I still help whenever I can lol Another experience I had just the other day that I’m laughing at is a dps complained that they had aggro for a few seconds during pull and it wasn’t immediately grabbed (or brought to the tank), and the other dps was like “you wouldn’t pull aggro if you didn’t unload everything you can immediately and instead waited for tank to finish the pull” and then they just left. The rest of the party was really nice & still stuck around, also laughing a little at how fragile the ego seemed to be

[@ManiakGear]

I was tanking in duty finder for my bonus and when the dungeon started I pulled the first two camps cause that's all there was before hitting a wall. We wiped, so fast. So I'm like...ok. I adjust, and just pull one camp. I see the healer still struggling to keep heals up, in his defense we had DPS constantly standing in all the mechanics like it was a tiktok challenge. So throughout the entire dungeon, I pull one camp at a time, slowly inching our way through it. We finally finish and the healer at this time decides to speak his mind and of all the thinks he SHOULD HAVE said, what he ended up saying was, "You need to learn to use your mits." Thank Hydaelyn he bounced immediately, cause I don't like getting pulled into these toxic conversations, but what I NEEDED to tell him was, Son...Every single camp, I am using Rampart, Reprisal, Shadow Wall, and even Dark Mind cause eff it. And I am still keeping my finger hovered over Living Dead cause I'm watching my health CONSTANTLY drop down to 10%. What effing mits are you telling me to use?? I'm using ALL the mits. ALL of them! You're holdin onto your heals like each cast costs 50% of your MP. Actin like my Abyssal Drain is on a 5 second cool down. My guy what MITS are you tellin me to use?? But yeah my bad...I guess I could have been using Arm's Length. So yeah eff me I guess.

[@Goofy_Clown]

It’s rare to run into toxic ppl but when you do the game genuinely becomes unfun and makes it discouraging from learning to play the game

[@contronka3604]

It’s as JoCat put it. There is a sliver that says ‘Tank Bad’ in his crap guide to tanking. This is an example of that.

[@DICEBOY22]

I had a reverse experience in Hell's Lid where a Healer was being a speed runner and I was like "uhhhh okay... guess your the tank now?"

[@siyrean]

Trust your healer! If they’re pulling ahead, it means they know the pulls and if you die, they’re the one that look dumb.

[@captainquill5062]

I have GAD and my anxiety commonly refuses to let me tank, I've had rude people and I think id die before going through that again. I could wipe all day with a smile but I can't handle yelling :(

[@madjik1979]

This kind of toxicity is bullhucky. I've been playing MMO's for 20 years now and it was this very attitude, over, and over again, that gave me anxiety about playing in a team. Even here. Even in this very kind and mostly accepting community, I don't want to play in a group because of this selfish and self serving attitude. Point the finger, it's your fault, flip off. You were more patient with this tank then I think I can be thanks to this kind of spittle that he was dropping, and I want you to know, I appreciate it. I wasn't in your group. The community is large enough, I may never group with you (especially because of my proclivity to not group if I can help it); but I still appreciate your kindness here, and more importantly, your willingness to talk about it.

[@stok5445]

I just stumbled across the video and wanted to mention something. When I started FFXIV, I chose to main WHM and I was having a really fun time until I had a dungeon when I finally failed at healing for the first time. I don't remember the dungeon, because it was so long ago but it was likely an ARR dungeon. Two of the people in the party were partied up and they got a bit toxic in the same way this tank did. I genuinely almost quit that day. Not just healing, but FFXIV all together. I'm happy that I didn't because of everything I've done and everyone I've met since then are super special to me. I guess I'm just saying this because if you do get toxic, know that you could possibly give someone a bad enough experience that they quit playing entirely and/or remember it for years. If you don't like someone that you got matched up with in a roulette for whatever reason, just be cordial, finish the roulette, and blacklist them if you really never want to play with them again.

[@dragonstompp]

players like that just aren't worth the time, good for you standing up for yourself

[@psoffxifan4904]

I've seen hundreds of groups over the years wipe to pulling just those two nyx groups, and I've never seen anyone attempt to wall to wall that section. The physical damage taken debuff they put on you makes everything hit like a truck even now. This is just an asshole being an asshole.

[@fishythom5910]

I had no idea the debuff was what was killing me all this time! going to make my next runs here easier

[@psoffxifan4904]

@@fishythom5910 If I'm remembering correctly, it's the oboron that applies the debuff and I think there's only one in that dual pull now in the reworked darkhold.

[@RicardoSantos-oz3uj]

@@psoffxifan4904 The Oboron is also the reason is a bad idea to wall to wall in Satasha up to the first boss. You may end up in a fight you can't win.

[@TBANinjaAbe]

i have tanked this a few times and i have learned that this section is 2 pulls, one for the first 2 packs and one for the last 2 packs cause tanks don't have enough mitigation and healers don't have enough options to consistently do a wall to wall especially since most times one or both is newer.

[@XxTaiMTxX]

If you, as a tank, complain about “not healing fast enough” from healers… just quit the job. You aren’t cut out for it. You can’t handle it. You’re not mature enough to handle the responsibility of it. I’ve had two toxic groups as a healer. My first was in Aurum Vale while I was a sprout… running it for the first time. We kept wiping in the first room. A Dps accused me of “trying to dps instead of healing”. I said nothing for those first two wipes of that accusation. I finally just said, “if I were doing dps, you’d see rocks hit the enemies. No rocks are hitting them. The tank is pulling too many and is under geared.” Silence from the dps. Then, he said, “you’re right”. I could not out heal all the damage, he was eating a third of a health bar on each hit he took. Tank was Geared at 25-32 in Aurum Vale. He was not even wearing his level 45 armor despite being level 48 when he entered. The dps then bullied the tank into dropping. The party fell apart after that. When I queued back up for another attempt… everyone knew what they were doing. Easy win the second time and I barely healed at all. The second toxic situation was a tank who insisted on pulling 16 or more enemies on every pull. I asked for smaller pulls since my healing could only keep up with 12 enemies max in this dungeon, and was told to “kindly F off or learn to heal better”. I’m petty so I let him party wipe 3 more times without once hitting him with heal. He dropped, the RDM was angry with me, but the replacement tank did a ton better and we cleared it without issues. I forget what the place is called, but it’s that level 90 dungeon with the twinning music. There’s no reason to be toxic in this game. Just be kind to each other and respect wishes. As I got better as a healer, I got to where I was calculating enemy damage output in my head and comparing it to my own healing output to see what was possible. I could comfortably tell tanks exactly how big pulls could be at the start of the dungeon. Which meant,they needed to be good at the game too and use mitigations and count targets.

[@lizm8906]

I did this dungeon for the first time maybe 2 weeks ago as a white mage and the tank was going so fast, i really struggled to keep up. They kept pulling loads of mobs while i was behind. It was such a panic especially because i was still learning the class and just healing in general. Their health was rapidly going down every time and I just about managed to keep them from dying when i eventually caught up until one point where i just couldn't do it so we wiped and i apologised. After that they still didn't wait for me and when we got to the last boss they didn't bother waiting while i watched the cutscene so i got locked out of the room for a little while. Felt kinda awful after that and just put me off this dungeon

[@zaynkor2670]

This dungeon can be a little spicy in some spots, but it sounds like your tank was just being impatient. Don't take it to bad, I've had my fair share of impatient players in every role.

[@lizm8906]

@@zaynkor2670 oh I've noticed 😂 done it a couple of times after this and did have some struggles but wasn't as bad as the first time lol. Did make me think I was just a bad healer but I am also inexperienced as I only started playing a week after it came out on Xbox

[@zaynkor2670]

@lizm8906 Don't worry it took me quite a while to figure out healing. You'll get there

[@lizm8906]

@@zaynkor2670 I hope so!

[@johnlarken4744]

I've always gone with the standard 2 packs per pull in ARR dungeons. When the game lets you do more in higher level dungeons it's really fun, but as you mentioned we have more tools in those levels. I did find a tank who wanted to pull everything possible in Sastasha once. That was a very long dungeon run because he would not stop doing it. We also had a sprout archer in the party too...

[@ThePrecariousAviator]

This literally happened to me last night. I'm a newish player, been playing mostly Tank and DPS but I started to learn healer with WHM to give some flexibility for when playing with friends. So I go into Brayflox and I get a tank that decides that he can just do the most massive pulls. Like he was pulling all the mobs into the boss chambers and even starting the fights before everyone was there. The worst part was when he went and said "Stop worrying about MP and just Cure 2" which is great when I only have 8000 MP and Cure 2 costs 1000. And it's not like I'm not used to big pulls, my friend that is teaching me the game does big pulls all the time, but they at least understand when to slow down and shit. Like this experience is making me not want to heal for random tanks.

[@MatsuzoSF]

The Cure II thing is correct though. 1000 MP sounds like a lot but if you're keeping Lucid Dreaming on cooldown and getting that out of combat regen between pulls it's no sweat.

[@EchoXVince]

I think not using Cure II (or in the case of AST, Benefic II), is actually one of the most common beginner mistakes. You'll be fine if, like the person before me said, you use your Lucid Dreaming and don't spam more heals than needed (remember, your job is to keep people alive, not necessarily at full HP :D). Definitely a bad move on their part to pull into the bosses without the rest of the party tho. Can't expect that to go well lol.

[@alanogy]

Must be a full moon. I leveled an alt through ARR this week and had a tank do something similar in Brayflox. He went back and pulled all the optional mobs into the second and final boss fights while the rest of us were already at the boss, having assumed we were skipping those mobs like most people do. It wasn't a disaster, but it wasn't fun. For what it's worth, most random tanks are aware they have random healers and random dps, and will slow down as needed.

[@NuchiAsaki]

No healer can out-heal that without the DPS and tank also going maximum sweat. This isn't the kind of pull you should try to do with randoms. The best tanks aren't the ones that wall-to-wall, they are the ones that are predictable. Most groups kill the frogs first and then grab everything else, so that is what this tank should have done. I would have tried to kick them from the party too.

[@rumia3691]

Hey there, new to your channel and a healer main as well. I just have to say, regardless if the healer is new, or is just having to deal with the woes of a being a healer in a very low level dungeon, read the room if you're tanking. If you're running out of mits in a level 40 dungeon, and you're doing wall to wall pulls, or you're just dying through mits while pulling 20 adds, maybe step back and think about whether your healer even has the tools to get you through that kind of pull. Today I ended up getting "The Stone Vigil" in roulettes and only had access to Physis and Diagnosis for healing. You can imagine my dismay when the tank decided to do a wall-to-wall pull all the way INTO the boss room. There's no way Kardia is going to heal through a wall-to-wall pull in that dungeon because that many adds is enough to chew through the tank in seconds, Physis in combination with Eukrasian Diagnosis/Diagnosis is also just not enough to shield/heal through that big of a pull. I told the tank to maybe not pull into the boss room, but even then, the amount of adds still proved way too much. The dps were getting upset and one of them just outright refused to aoe after we'd wiped twice to trying to brute force that kind of pull. If you're a tank, SLOW DOWN SOMETIMES. It's not because WE WANT to slow down, I'm sure a lot of us love to do wall-to-wall pulls, but at least understand when it's just not possible when in certain low level dungeons due to the lack of tools available to us healers. I'm so sorry you had to deal with this, This particular tank really does remind me of my first days healing with an ex-friend who was extremely unforgiving towards me in my starter days as a healer. It makes me sad to think about all the sprouts that have/will turn away from healing or even the game in general due to shitty behavior like this.

[@dalgona4819]

As a Tank who has started to enjoy Wall to Wall pulls, I made it a mantra to never blame healers for not catching up to my recklessness. I die and I'd apologize immediately bc that meant I wasn't matching everyone's pace. If I could sense the Healer not being able to keep up, I'd stick to 2 pulls at most before stopping. As for Dzemael Darkhold. Gosh I never overdo that part of the dungeon with the frogs. That would usually kill a party if a tank pulls too many.

[@lolleonlolable]

man its so sad that u cant overpull in most instances :/

[@Controvi]

i have been in the same situation, minus the "or get better at healing" part. I went through some early dungeons to help some people and the tank was booking it to the end. I couldn't keep up with him as the dps'ers weren't that experienced either. The dps guys were getting damage that I needed to heal and eventually, the tank died because I couldn't be at 2 places simultaneously. The dps guys started apologizing for being slow and I interrupted them by asking the the tank to slow down. Told him that I might be fast enough but these guys were new. Luckily he replied with something along the lines of "Yeah sorry, I should have noticed. Will take it easier." But the tank in your situation is definitely a case of "tell me you don't know about healing without telling me you don't know about healing" To be honest though, most early dungeons are pretty easy to keep the tank alive, apart from some like the Stone VIgil. But other then that it's not that hard to heal. But that can only happen when all party members are together. Otherwise, you have to choose who to keep alive. And to me, the moment I have to choose who to keep alive due to neglect of the tank, I will focus on the dps. The only way for the tank to learn is to die. Not that I like to make the choice but it did happen once or twice over the course of my 500+ hours of gameplay.

[@Mephiidross]

Oh, I remember that pull from back in ARR days. Can you still do the rez strat? 'coz that's what we used to do. Tank grabs everything, no one else touches the mobs, rest of the party runs into the boss room, tank dies in front of it. Mobs reset their aggro, and we just rez 'em and carry on. Might be even more viable now that only bosses give XP.

[@Author_Gamer]

Your story reminds me of a toxic monk I ran into as a healer, the tank was going slow and we were moving at a steady enough pace. Monk did not like us not doing wall to wall pulls and it would not have gone well if we did. I was already having enough troubles keeping the tank alive as is. Afterwards I messaged the tank to apologize for their poor experience even if it wasn’t my fault.

[@condi_tv]

Also congrats on 10k ! 🎉

[@Aoestandingway]

As a Scholar main I couldn’t even think i could heal this

[@saberlily9562]

I'm a free trial and main healer, I did that dungeon yesterday and the tank did the same pull you mentioned, we all died. I said it was a bad idea and he wasn't rude, just said he would pull less. I know vets play like the world is ending in one minute so they rush the dungeon as fast as possible but there is no way in hell that a beginner could heal that wall to wall. Vet players need slow down when they party with a sprout, it should be common sense

[@eggsous8858]

I've also had experiences with toxic tanks over my 3 years of playing but one of my favorite ones was regarding filling for a healer who left a DRK in Dead Ends (90 dungeon which at the time was still part of Expert roulette) who refused to mitigate properly + literally in class gear while me, a healer main playing SGE who was more or less casual BiS (high-quality crafted + pentamelded at the time) literally could not heal this guy up at the speed he wanted since bro would also pull mobs while DPS was also catching up (tbf at the time, if you see that Time Elapsed message on any dungeon roul, you should be Ready and wary from the start). I suggested that he should take it slow and literally not pull the entire room until DPS could catch up and went "Bestie, I think you should slow down and wait for the DPS :)" since I wasn't *too* mad (since again, I'm very used to toxic tanks) and i cannot believe that bro's first response was "Do Not Call me Bestie." I apologized for that but DRK over here continued to not mitigate and honestly be very shite at DRK and I was over here struggling to get this guy above 5000 hp since bro was just Not Doing His Job. After a painful 30 minutes, we managed and since I was a little bit salty over this guy since he kept me 30 minutes away from doing rouls with my friends I went "Don't forget to mitigate next time ^^" and he responded with a "F*uk off" before leaving... the two DPS who remained however messaged in chat about how toxic and rude the guy was and cheered me for literally not giving up, which I think made the pain I had to endure or less better. :)

[@DumBinchJuscal]

I had a similar situation happen to me but the roles were reversed a bit. I'm normally a healer main(Scholar specifically because i love shield healing and i don't have access to Sage yet), but i was leveling up Paladin. I was in the Toto-Rak dungeon(i think that's what it's called). I started off with just a singular mob pull, everything went fine. So, for the next pull, i decided to do two groups.(each group only has 3 enemies btw) I popped my cooldowns to the best of my ability(I'm not the greatest tank, but i'm good enough to do early dungeons easy enough). Despite this though, the healer just yells at me saying: "Don't you realize I only have Cure 1 at this level!? It only has 400 potency!" I was more confused then irritated. I didn't feel like trying to argue with them and tell them that Cure 1 is enough(I've done this dungeon easy enough as conjurer where the tank pulled more than i did. So, i just said: "So, pull less?" The toxicity that i experienced that dungeon wasn't quite at the level you received, but it was there. I pulled the rest of the dungeon one mob at a time, but they could have just ASKED or SUGGESTED that we go slower.

[@Nagoshichao]

I've been playing since about 2017 and i think my first ever toxic experience was in The Burn when i was a new healer/player. up to that point everyone was pretty nice and with me mentioning i was new people were very accommodating and it was wonderful... until that dungeon. They all sprinted whenever they could and pulled everything and it was incredibly stressful as a new player. on the final pull before the boss the tank blamed me for a wipe because he ran around a corner and i stopped to not get hit by an AoE. it was humiliating because the 2 dps piled on me. I run savage content now (this past tier was my first) and it was always my goal to learn how to play well enough to do high end content but i always remember that experience and find it sad that so many people are essentially toxic because they are impatient. these days i have no trouble doing wall to wall and whatnot but i always take my time when theres clearly a new player. i dont like the idea of someone having that same kind of experience and its pretty frustrating when others ignore that kind of thing. it actually reminds me that yesterday i have an entirely new friend who started playing because of the Xbox version and he has been learning the game as an entirely new tank. unfortunately his first experience in a dungeon was a bard who kept running ahead of him while he was trying to learn and pulling extra mobs. While there's certainly a discussion to be had about when its ok for DPS to pull mobs to the Tank, I'd argue that when youre in sastasha of all dungeons and the tank is a BASE CLASS, you ought to let the player learn. Not that the mobs are anything tough to deal with but the person pulling was clearly NOT new and they werent even pulling mobs to my friend. just running off and expecting that i would heal them when the tank was nowhere near him. its okay to go slightly slower to let a new player get accustomed. max level dungeon in expert? yeah go ahead, get that shit done. but honestly, let the new players have their proper experience. run it with friends if you dont want to deal with new players going slower