Dawntrail is too hard? | FFXIV

[@ghosteeniesmith6219]

As a non savage raider, it's nice to see normal be more engaging again. Perhaps to Ivalice release levels?

[@ShiraVT]

The Ivalice raids as a whole are excellent, I'm hopeful to see more healer required mechanics like they had in Orbonne - a variety of mechanics that are specific to a role are great. It's why I also loved the Susano fight, it had a specific job for tanks and DPS. I'm hopeful we get more of that.

[@brookehawkins9526]

I said the same thing! Ivalice raids still get people everyday. I'm enjoying the current content!

[@magus2458]

More of a challenge in the casual continent is good specially when it is difficult to get a static going to do the more difficult content.

[@Caursten]

Ivalice was harder at release than anything we've seen in Dawntrail. DT is harder than EW, EW was a snooze fest. Especially Erichthonios. You could literally sleep through Panda1. The OP is wrong on so many levels. The whole overlapping mechanic complaint is even off base. Mechanics have been overlapping as far back as I can remember. The OP just isn't overgeared by doing content on Day 1. The whole argument is baseless, is flat out wrong and the OP wants nothing more than spread mechanics.

[@Jahkrel]

These normal raids have me so excited for the future of the game. They are focusing on good gameplay. I think people are just not used to dying in a duty anymore. I think people will adjust this seems like a knee jerk reaction. Also everyone is undergeared and its fresh content you are supposed to die alot. Just have a laugh at the chaos and enjoy new gear will fix any casual player issues in the long run.

[@meteorwalkergg]

Finally, a good take ❤

[@phiefer3]

Yes this. I think a lot of players forget that at the start of every expansion, we all start out at or below the intended ilvl for the max level dungeons that we get at the start of the expansion. By the time we get new dungeons during patch content, most players are already above the ilvl of those dungeons due to tomestones, or raid gear. So by comparison patch content dungeons feel a lot easier since the majority of players outgear them immediately. So after 5 patches of dungeons that are outgeared on release, when a new expansion rolls around and we don't immediately outgear the dungeons on release, they feel noticeably more challenging, and we forget that this is how every expansion starts. When I finished the msq and went and unlucked the other level 100 dungeons I also was like "wow, there's a lot more damage going out in these dungeons, maybe they decided to up the difficulty for DT". But then as I started to replace all of my gear with tomestone gear the dungeons got noticeably easier. When 7.1 rolls around and everyone is wearing mostly ilvl720 tome gear, and the dungeon is dropping ilvl 705 gear, it's going to feel just as easy and the dungeons did in EW and ShB.

[@zongvang8579]

Reminds me of when I ran Shinryu normal for the first time. It was pretty tough the first time as a healer as people were getting downed left and right. Man it was really fun back then. Took around 25 runs to finally beat him.

[@otysafiry]

This so much. People want to just breeze through everything. Comparing this stuff to savage or extreme is laughable. The average casual player isn't struggling with these fights. Are they dying? Sure, it's a learning method, it's early release and you don't know the mechanics yet. The people complaining are a vocal minority. It's like the top 1% complaining about ultimate content being too easy, but do we listen? No, because the average ultimate/savage raider isn't as good as the top 1%. Dumbing things down for casual content for the lower 1% just makes content for everyone else boring.

[@venedictostv]

Honestly, these dungeons are great and fun! Though the crazy part is there are already toxic downplaying you for dying😂 I played the dungeon to the gold city entrance for the first time and two people called me trash for not knowing that the final boss of it was going to knock me off. They've played it before I did. People will complain on either end 😂

[@brandohernandez9991]

Don’t be scared to fail! If they curse and swear at you, while you explain your situation just report them and block them you don’t want that toxic non healthy energy gaming in the future

[@reshypoo9447]

I don't like failing, because I don't like my character being hurt. Not because I care about the opinions of others, or am pressed for time.

[@SupremeCaptainHWD]

@@reshypoo9447 Stop seeing your character as weak or unable to deal with pain. There's plenty of main characters out there that get hurt and get back up.

[@taniabaron-dostie2291]

Seek therapy. Not wanting your character to get hurt, an image made of polygones, ones and zeros, il a game with COMBAT, is ridiculous.

[@7RicolmE7]

If your anxiety is so bad, that you cannot deal playing with other people online. Go to therapy, the issue is not the MMO, you are the issue.

[@LordXenon54]

Then there are the players who are trying to improve and work up the confidence to attempt the harder content. Having content of a more moderate difficulty helps such people learn the skills needed to attempt such content. It's a good learning curve. Shouldn't we all be trying to improve in whatever we love to do?

[@anteprs7908]

@@LordXenon54 that fine it called semi casual content and it what normal raids are for but this difficult has been happening in msq late dungs too and that not ok.

[@DantoriusD]

​@@anteprs7908how can you say late msq Dungeons are more difficult when you dont get new Stuff? Also its not like every Boss throws the whole arsenal right at the beginning. You usually get every mechanic one after another before they stsrt to combine them. And even IF you fail it is ok to fail. Just learn the mechanic and on your next run youre already a better player.

[@EdgeGilid]

thats the thing, some people just doesnt want to improve

[@Dark-uj2jq]

That's me!

[@anteprs7908]

@@EdgeGilid that he point we wanna stay and do the same content if ppl wish to improve that their CHOICE we just want our content to stay the same difficult not be forced to lose on content . we are good and enjoy only the clear cut mechanic not some random bs go it the reason we only do casual content and why we play this game to enjyo the story and have fun but the late dungs the lv 97 and 99 ones are just pains i nthe ass and annjoying for us and you know you fuk up when CASUAL HATE THE CASUAL CONTENT BUT MIDCORE NAD HARDCORE LIKE IT. ppl cried that ew was to easy but those ppl arent the target audeince of that content .

[@xxomega702buzzalini8]

Honey Bee in/out is Barbricia normal, The hearts is also from Barb but the ground aoes are in a different pattern than inner ring outter ring.

[@HoneyDoll894]

honestly I don't really understand why honey b is the level people think is too hard. i think the bomb and eutrope were like wayyy more difficult

[@virusprotocol]

Its just Byakko / Barbaricia Mix its pretty easy

[@Itsnotthatdeep88]

Exactly! It’s literally Barb except it’s pink….SE mech’s are recycled over and over throughout the game just in different interpretations. If this person has played the game since ARR how are they confused on the mechs?

[@WolfmanXD]

​@@HoneyDoll894 I think it's more to do with the "holy shit here comes everything all at once" phase that's basically a reskin of strayborough first boss. I agree that it's not that hard, but is definitely chaotic. I do disagree with R3 being harder though. That fight is a snooze fest.

[@reshypoo9447]

Bee is quite a lot busier than Barb. It's like Barb++. Barb sends out her air-orbs in a separate phase to the ground-dodging phase, whereas Bee is combined. There are significantly more of both the orbs, and the ground danger-zones. In Barb, there was always clear ground to run to. While in bee, the ground danger-zones overlap in such a way that you have to sit in a 'red' zone, waiting for other red zones to expire, before running out - which requires greater general awareness.

[@Joe-it2dh]

Later on in the post the OP says that they are okay with themselves failing and dying to mechanics but "cant handle" when other people fail and die. This post was by someone who will never be satisfied and honestly should find a different genre to play because MMO's are meant to be played with other people and thats too much for that OP.

[@sepphero9639]

No. This person is concerned with not being able to clear content, to be stuck over an hour in content without being able to clear it or quit it. And that's the big problem. FF is still mostly an casual run game and while for example Roulette was a relatively save bet for certain clearing times you now can't even go into them with 93+ characters without being worried about wasting a lot of time because your healer is bad or your tank. (Also this development is a huuuuuuge "fuck you" for anyone with an disability especially mental ones) sorry but for me the thing is pretty clear, if you want a difficult game, go into PF and run stuff minimum ILvl or ho play dark souls or go play the content that's labeled as hard

[@Joe-it2dh]

@@sepphero9639 just saying "no." Doesn't refute my arguement nor does it diminish the simple truth I stated. At no point does the OP make anything close to your argument, I have no idea what post you're reading but it isn't this one. Please go away. And by the way if you are like the OP and have anxiety so bad you "can't handle" even being in a party with other players then MMO's arent for you because they are designed for Massive MULTIPLAYER Online gameplay, and you should seriously get help and stop demanding everything cater to you and your poor life decisions.

[@herebejamz]

@@sepphero9639 " if you want a difficult game, go into PF and run stuff minimum ILvl " You do know that doing the raids right now is basically min iLVL right? Most of these raids are about right for current content. Welcome to not being overgeared I guess?

[@jamieanderson8308]

See, I read that post but I never took that comment to mean that. I took it more like ‘I’m quite used to dying, but if I’m looking around and seeing lots of other people dead as well, it must be too difficult’. Perhaps I picked it up wrong

[@toscatattertail9813]

I don't heal anymore, but when I did i experienced the same feeling. When you have another player in a complex fight that refuses to be aware of the mechanics that can be avoided and is having a "dirt sandwich" at the same mechanic for a 5th time it's frustrating, and an unnecessary drain on a limited MP pool.

[@drewlarsen5226]

My mom is 76 and while it takes her longer to get it then a lot of people but she can do the normal stuff just fine and going to do the raid Sunday

[@digitalash1603]

This is so adorable! I wish her luck, she got this) Forge ahead, Warrior of Light ✨

[@toscatattertail9813]

there are more 60+ players in the game. Partly because research has shown that as an older person if you are in an interactive , cooperative, challenging activity with players of other nationalities and skills your chances of developing Dementia goes down because the brain stays active. I have been using this game as my dementia prevention program for the last 10 years.

[@digitalash1603]

@@toscatattertail9813 that's awesome!)

[@zacharyhall7466]

whoah dont tell me that im 33 and I use my age as an excuse LOL!

[@Mephiidross]

I think people are giving way too much attention to this post. The vast majority of people are on neither end of the casual-elitist scale, and will simply do what they've always done: adjust to whatever the game provides. We've seen it in throughout the Alexander raids, from people leaving Savage because of the statstick difficulty, to coming back to it as it became more approachable even if the mechanics became more complex. We've seen it in Endwalker, with the more serious players coming up with ways to challenge themselves during the easier content (running without healers, for example). And we'll see it in Dawntrail, with the more casual players starting to pay more attention to fights and going beyond their comfort zone. I agree that just dismissing the post out of hand is the wrong move, but I don't think it's something that should be taken at face value either. Because there is a limit to not having the ability/desire to put in the effort required. Someone in the thread mentioned how they couldn't clear some of the MSQ dungeons, because they were hindered by the Trust system relying on player skill. And at that point I think it's valid to ask if they should continue playing. Because almost every hobby has a certain barrier of entry that needs to be cleared at some point. For a crass example, if your hobby is reading and you suffer from extreme dyslexia, then you'll either have to put in some effort of dealing with that disability; or you'll have to live with it or walk away. There might be ways publishers can help you, but it's not something you can (nor should, imo) rely on. And from personal experience, the majority of these "the game is too hard" posts fall into the "not willing to put in the effort" category. Most of the people who have legit issues accept that these issues exist and try to work around them, instead of just asking on the forums for change.

[@grygaming5519]

I came into the game in 2.2. When the game was struggling to find its own voice and taking inspirations from other MMOs. There was a lot of experimentation at the time and the difficulty was everywhere. When Final Coil came out along as well the announcement of Heavensward. People got excited but the forum was buzzing with threads of Summoner and Monk being difficult classes to get into, along with Final Coil being too easy. This was back when there was no cross world party finder (that didnt come out until 3.3-3.4). It was not unheard of people buying T-13 clears for gil, and this gave rise to the notion that if 7 players can tell me to eat the wall to get my clear apparently the content is too easy. So these armchair raiders constantly quarterbacked that the Raid was too easy. Come 3.0....we get Gordias and the raid scene on XIV pretty much imploded, everyone was blaming everything from the servers to the class designs. Very few pointed out the players who basically ASKED for harder content knowing that they never would be participating in said content. Its no different now, the same people complaining about Dawntrail being hard are the same people who will not engage in harder content. They are mad now they cannot go through the content/be carried like they were in EW. That some job complexity is slowly making its way back into the game. As I always like to say, be careful what you wish for...you might just get it.

[@selpharessecret3899]

Problem in the discussion is that it is done online by people that play Savage and above.

[@EllieBerryPie]

I completely disagree with the idea the game is “too hard now” but I really don’t like people saying that people who feel they can’t do them shouldn’t care because it’s “optional content.” The raid storylines are a huge part of the game, and a lot of people want to experience that story, it’s a big thing to do during the patch cycle, it’s not just about the difficulty. So I agree, we should encourage players, help carry those who need it so they can experience some of the best written story of the games, and dismissing people who want to experience the story but feel the content is too hard with “get gud” isn’t fair to them

[@PapiKamikaze]

I’m gonna be honest, I don’t have the time to commit to a static, I’ve been playing this game for 4 years now, I’m more of a Eureka/Bozja/relic kind of player… and yet, this has been nice, to have a more challenging experience without the need of doing savage/ultimate.

[@anteprs7908]

You a midcore player nice

[@WolfmanXD]

If it's just a time commitment, have you thought about party finder? You can pretty comfortably prog and clear any non ultimate content in party finder.

[@WolfmanXD]

​@@anteprs7908this comment has no bearing on his "core" level. You can be a casual who plays 15 hours a day but never does hard content or a casual who plays 3 hours a day just to do savage and log out. It's not as simple as casual, midcore, hardcore. It's not all black and white, there's gradients in between.

[@anteprs7908]

@@WolfmanXD TIME ISN WORTHLESS AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A PLAYER SYTLE. it the difficult of the content that made you do and casuals dont do any difficult content as it goes against the defintion of casual. most ppl and are that casual play to relax if you seek to challanage yourself that be default make you not longer seeking a to relax so it make you a non causals now depending on the content you do you ether semi casual or midcore but erueka,bozja and ext trail are seen and agree to be full on midcore content .

[@DawnAfternoon]

@@anteprs7908 Dude you're not even a casual, you're a turbocasual. A tiny minority even amongst the casual playerbase in the game. Stop speaking on behalf of all casuals.

[@IKIGAIofficial]

Pls devs dont make the bosses braindead again because of these guys. Dawntrails been a huge step up in fun and engagement!

[@anteprs7908]

@@IKIGAIofficial but what if "those guys" are the mayority of the playerbase?

[@IKIGAIofficial]

@@anteprs7908 cater to the majority. This guys post is not the majority.

[@anteprs7908]

@@IKIGAIofficial it is he is a casual even if most casual dont do normal raids but he isnt wrong . The casuals are 80% of modrrn mmorpg playerbases.

[@IKIGAIofficial]

@@anteprs7908 and this guys opinions don’t reflect that 80%.

[@Splucus]

@@anteprs7908 nah don't worry a lot of casual player disgree with that person I am sure most casual player out there enjoy this level of difficulty

[@NotTheWheel]

I wrote a really encouraging post to this person in the forums. I don't believe that content in FF14 or any MMO isn't "for you" Everyone is a human being, we all adapt and we're all on different steps of that journey. Nothing worth achieving is without errors or shortcomings. We may be bloodied sometimes, but we are unbowed.

[@anteprs7908]

the casual content need ot be clear it need to have clear nechanics otherwise it difficult enough that it not relaxing and non relaxing content isnt casual content .

[@NotTheWheel]

@@anteprs7908 The casual content is clear. I'm not speaking from a non-casual perspective. This content might be new more challenging but it's not out of your ability to succeed. Nothing is. Nothing ever will be no matter how difficult. This content is new but it isn't insurmountable. Achievement comes at the cost of failure.

[@meteorwalkergg]

​@@anteprs7908 it is & the pacing in the game is meant to have marginal gains in skill through the intended game design - most of us just get rushed through content by total strangers due to laziness on parsers' parts to homogenize player practices instead of optimizers/efficiency-enjoyers simply pre-forming their parties, like they're supposed to, instead of blind matchmaking aka cold-queuing with Duty Finder. It turns out rushing people through their journey ever widens the skill gap & upsets the pace of an otherwise well-designed learning curve 🤯

[@anteprs7908]

@@NotTheWheel it annjoying and casual content shouldnt be annjoying mechanics have ot be clear as day ot be good for casuals (most) to enjoy many of us enjoyed ew dung and now we dont get any content similiar ot it we simpel get f out of a game . the mechanics in the last 2 dungs and last trail aint clear they chaotic that are a 180 from ew it night and day and we simple dont like that .

[@anteprs7908]

@@meteorwalkergg if the content has unclear mechanics aka confusing not easy ot learn on first try it not godo casual content simple as that the lv 97 and lv 99 dung are perfect examples of that . we aitn seeking a learning curve i just wanna do the DAM MSQ i aint here ot study this isnt school i didnt come to learn for get stress in content made to not be stressful or have much failure i got life for that i dont come to game to feel that bs .

[@khrystamaxwell]

Floor mat learning can be the scariest part of the game. It takes me time to learn bosses and dying in bosses tends to frustrate people. I think we need to learn to accept people dying more and listening less to the min maxxers who do this for a living.

[@RicardoSantos-oz3uj]

Healers that like to heal are in heaven. As they are getting to make a difference in the fight. While green dps are in hell as they are being called out for not doing their job. The problem is not the fight. But the attitude of green dps.

[@SageTigerStar]

literally had a DRK all-caps screaming at our WHM in a run today because they just tossed a Regen on them and went on DPSing. We wiped 4 times in Alexandria because they refused to heal. Tank was doing all their mits, we DPS were trying our best to not get hit (some mechs are still gettin' learned tho~), so it's not like we were demanding too much of the WHM. We got through it on the 5th attempt because they switched to *only* healing and no DPSing out of spite. :P

[@TheDaiuc]

White mages are a different breed xD As PLD i'm quite self sufficient so i can laugh about it but it's still objectively sad to witness those people unwillingness to heal at all.

[@kyyuun]

Oooo true, I actually noticed many healers slacking on heals when I switched to Pictomancer for the expansion and I wondered what's up with that 🤣 Not my healer main ass giving my only shield to a tank during a pull bc they're fucking dying cause the Astro is too busy spamming Gravity 🗿🗿

[@masterdeathize]

While you have some good points. I have to hard disagree on two things. Lvl 100 means something. That means they spent time with that class. time enough to learn how to play it, even if they story skipped and lvl skipped, that's at least enough time to wrap your head around keep stance on and press cooldowns, heal people, press your shiny buttons. I expect my level 100 tank to know that they have more then rampart as a cooldown. The other is the 'well you can just leave' well they can just use trust. How is it fair to me that I have to either spend 45min stuck in a dead ends roulete because my team dies every boss at least twice, or be stuck waiting 30 min due to me leaving. Time is a commodity you can't get back. When you que with random people, you do have a responsibility to preform at some level. that's why you can't just afk. If you have such anxiety or discomfort preforming at a minimum play level, then don't que up in roulettes. I don't have much expectations for most randos in roulettes, im a crystal player and a sav/ult player. If people mess up I usually just danger dorito and tell people to follow me or loose a gcd or two to type what they need to do. I know being belligerent or calling them out harshly does nothing so I don't. However we have reached an impass now that people think telling others that. At a lvl that can possibly take HUNDREDS of hours to reach you should at lesat have a grasp how to play. I think ff strongest thing is that it does catter to a lot of different type of players and 100% welcome that fact. However, just like when the P12S mount made people rage that a 'cute' mount was behind savage. So is every sav mount, so is every ult weapon. If they wanted it more then they wanted to complain, they would study and get it.

[@SuperTwoU]

I used to think that max level meant something, but after playing the game long enough I've realized there are many people who hit max level who understand very little of their kit. Black Mages who only use ice spells, Ninjas that only use AoE ninjutsu even on single target boss fights, and Scholars that never use abilities that cost Aetherflow. I agree with Aitherea though, it's not a big deal. Players at that low of a skill level are a tad uncommon and likely the content will take about an extra 5 minutes to clear. It's not that hard to carry people in normal content.

[@briancoleman772]

@@SuperTwoU Sorry for replying to this after a month, but to build off your point I have one word. Esuna. The amount of healers who apparently don't even have that on their bar is staggering.

[@JamieEhh]

You'd think after the 500/600 hours or so to get to DT, people would have a basic understanding of the basic mechanics

[@FalakIll]

15:40 The game does teach you what those are. It does it by putting them in dungeons/solo duties/normal trials etc and lets you figure them out. The exact same way we are shown every other mech and marker in the game. They're included with no overlap or anything else so it's easier to realise what it is.

[@Enis1198]

in fact they spent the entirety of EW going back and standardizing markers in older content.

[@NocturnalAce]

For a game that costs a subscription fee, I'm pretty sure a lot of people aren't really interested in caring about the opinions of elitists or overly tryhard players that act like the game is their entire personality. For many MANY players, they understand that the game is shared with different types of players with their own style and preferences and perspectives on how the game "should" be played... but honestly, no one is paying money to conform to how another player(s) dictates they should play the game. THAT is the issue that I see far too often and it's never-ending. Content that requires skill and coordination like raids etc. it is understandable to have a certain level of expectation, but there are many instances where certain situations are not that big of a deal if someone doesn't know all the ins-and-outs of their class even if they are at a "high lvl" that took many hours to obtain. You'd be surprised at how many lvl 100s exists in the game that are just people who are chillin' and never take combat too seriously. With all that said, if anyone makes a PERSONAL CHOICE to play with random players instead of a pre-made group, then you should lower your expectations (sometimes drastically) because you're dealing with RANDOM players. In fact, you shouldn't have expectations at all because you don't know who these players are, or their backstory, or their lifestyle, or their gameplay/skill level, etc... so it's foolish to expect them to know EVERYTHING or even half of the knowledge that you know. If they do then it's a plus, but just like how you can't have a lot of expectations for people IRL, the same is true (or even more true) in this game. No one wants to waste time or subscription money having a bad time/experience, so if playing with random people results in you having a bad time, THEN AVOID PLAYING WITH RANDOM PLAYERS. Otherwise, be more understanding that you will most likely be dealing with bad players if you're gambling on what teammates you will receive. If you're not playing with statics or pre-mades, then you are always gambling.

[@stationearth2532]

ngl everyone who complains about this....its a skill issue and maybe try to get better? i never done any extreme content before dawntrail and i got through the story easily. yes u had to wipe and learn a couple times at some bosses but it wasnt that hard at all. and yesterday after wiping for 2.5hours i completed my first extreme. stop complaining and use ur brains...ur smart enough im sure of it :)

[@stormkeeper1741]

Not always a skill issue, some people do have disabilities. But generally I agree with you. People need to not be scared of failing and keep trying.

[@syverah_nahja4047]

​​@@stormkeeper1741bro you know that people with disabilities even weighed in on this in the forum, so I wouldn't be too quick to fall back in the disabilities argument

[@stormkeeper1741]

@syverah_nahja4047 I know, I read the entire post because I'm a crazy person. I'm just saying it's not always a "git gud" situation. A lot of the times, sure, but not always. Pretending that there can't be some disabilities, such as neurological issues, nerve damage, and so on that can affect gameplay is a little ridiculous. Though I'm of the mind if they are that bad, perhaps the game isn't for them.

[@jasonchoh3930]

Zodiark and hydaelyn were harder than dawntrails first 2 trials. The lvl81 dungeon was just as hard and the dead ends was way harder that the lvl100 dungeon. 5.3s trial is harder than all the trials in dawntrail. The only difference is the innovation in mechanics and the expert dungeons being harder. Also keep in mind that heavensward was way harder than all of this combined due to how jobs worked lol.

[@jegudielyusha2866]

Even so, vets are typically forgiving. They are usually happy to adjust and/or tutor.

[@nyappynen]

It is personally very weird to me that after a minimum of 500 hours spent in the game, people still refuse to get better. Difficulty should increase with expansions to allow people to use their toolkits, as they have hundreds of hours of progressing through the game. Current difficulty of dungeons, trials and raids is in a very good spot, engages the players and builds on mechanics from the previous expansions, such as Shiva, Barbaricia, Leviathan etc.

[@misugrrl]

I died to many times during MSQ duties LOL, I was grateful no one was around to witness how awful I was doing :P

[@bean2122]

As someone who is a casual player. I love what they have done! The combat is blast. I don't feel like normal combat or even normal raids is at an extreme level hard. It's really okay to die. Failing is fine. I was getting bored of the combat. I felt I was being given a participation trophy doing normal content, normal raids and so forth. Yes I have died a lot during this expansion while doing dungeons, trials, normal raids. I even joke about being a floor lala 😂. The telegraph in dawntrail imo isnt bad at all lol. The game even alerts you before something big happens. Sometimes you have to do something more than once to learn. I was barely doing damage because I was observing mechanics I kept on failing at to learn. Watching my teammates. Once I got a hang of it ... I started to deal more DMG. I am happy with the level of difficulty they pushed in normal mode because I was truly bored. The slight turn up on difficulty they implicated isn't at all extreme level. Yes I am casual but I have done some extreme sync because I like to push myself sometimes.

[@armindastump2478]

Not sure if others have talked about it, but as a disabled person ffxiv is very difficult. Just moving my character outside of combat can be difficult. Honestly, hearing that the normal content has been raised at all makes me nervous because it's so grueling and disheartening to fail time after time in something that's supposed to be fun. I love the characters and this world, but it's becoming increasingly difficult to play and I hate being a burden on others - I get that enough in IRL. The point that I want to make is that you never know where someone is coming from, so please be patient.

[@packoNewportonrs]

I think the biggest issue is that it's the beginning of an expansion, people are used to being overgeared for content now so having to gear up now is making things seem harder than it is.

[@idno4856]

Enjoyed your vid as always. Really agree with everything in the 2nd half. People who get upset about skill level in normal content, especially when queuing through roulette are clowns. I don't think anyone wants to suck at this game, despite people putting various levels of "effort" into playing it. I think there's a way of helping people who want to be help without being antagonistic. That said, even if people wanna coast and have things be easier, I think we need to accept that cause that's what the devs want. It's a numbered Final Fantasy game. They've taken great steps to make the game accessible. As such they are partly responsible for this situation as they've made earlier dungeons way easier. I remember resubbing in March and doing a ShB dungeon with my newbie friend. I was explaining the issues with a certain boss and some other person was like, what are you talking about? Only to later realise that they had completely nerfed that mechanic. They do that with everything. So someone who started later on and who's playing an MMO for the first time won't be prepared for the "difficulty" spike of a current expansion. I think for the poster to say that they don't enjoy the fights in the current expansion is fair. I haven't done the DT stuff yet, so I can't comment on the difficulty. But I remember hating all the ShB dungeons except 3 (2 of which were at the end of the expansion) but loving all the EW ones. Enjoyment had little to do with difficulty per se. But things people don't enjoy tend to become (more) difficult. That said, this person should probably take advantage of the Trust system to learn the fights more. I agree with Aitherea that it could be improved in multiple ways, but it still removes a lot of variables and lets you focus on yourself, mechanics and positioning. I think overall it helps people learn a fight in a more chill environment. A final note, I didn't take her comment about the other players in the same way that Aitherea did. I don't think she was calling the other bad. I think she was trying to empathise with them swing how they are going through what she had to go through. And the poster is disheartened by seeing others go through what she had to, knowing they'll have to die (in her mind at least) multiple times before anyone can progress. Ultimately the devs will have to decide what they want cause they can't keep telling FF players (especially) to come play their game and dw about fighting while also making them have to care about fighting. Anyway, those are my 2 cents. Also, Crystal is a great place to learn and do trials *because* of the RPers and gposers. They want that glam too and they wanna help people get that glam or their crafting mats. (And I say this as a non RPer). There are some really good players on Crystal.

[@lauranichols8337]

I am one of the "not good" players. I have rheumatoid arthritis and essential tremor in my hands, so I'm never going to be a good player no matter how hard I try. I do all of the dungeons via Duty Support or Trust. I sit for days working up the courage to do Trials because I have to do them through Duty Finder and once I get through it, I never do it again. Sometimes I get people in DF who are kind and encouraging, other times I get jerks who complain or who let me lay on the floor dead because I missed a mechanic. It is what it is. I haven't started DT yet, specifically because I'm sort of dreading the uptick in difficulty.

[@idno4856]

@@lauranichols8337 thanks for sharing your experience. I think a lot of people forget about stuff like this.

[@idno4856]

@@qamarqammar7629 I see what you're saying but I still like Trusts for learning mechanics. Especially in their instance where they mention healers leaving them for dead. You definitely won't learn much lying on the floor. Might as well watch a YT vid telling you what to do at that point. Hopefully this person can find a teaching FC or a static that likes running dungeons. I think then your advice would apply better than with DF which seems to be the OP's current way of doing things.

[@qamarqammar7629]

@@idno4856 I agree. I love Trusts. I wish they were available for everything. Unfortunately the biggest difficulty gate in MMOs can be the people not the mechanics. And a sympathetic dungeon group would help.I really believe this game can be played by anyone. Even in DT.

[@qamarqammar7629]

@@lauranichols8337 Players who are "not good", or play very little and wander into any and all Duty Finder content are more than you might realize, especially now with a new expac. It doesn't matter what people think of you. As long as you are trying you are within your rights. Anyone in DF has already agreed to play with random people. And that means random skill levels. Dawntrail is fun and very interesting. It is not so much that it is harder, rather, it is different. The mechanics are similar, but the graphics are unfamiliear - if you've done any Variant dungeons you will immediately feel at home with it. If not, now is the time to see it. You can do all the dungeons and every Trial in the MSQ with Trusts except for the last Trial. The last Trial is not particularly difficult, a bit chaotic at the end, and you won't be the only newcomer on the floor. Many players make a point of running the new content blind and they all make mistakes, so now is a great time to jump in. The last Trial is only about 8 minutes (?) long don't deprive yourself of a great experience because 7 random people you will never see again might see you make mistakes! have fun!

[@SiaDione]

While i absolutely agree that casual content is at a really good place in DT it has also shown a more toxic side of the community that i feel has been growing recently. I felt myself be influenced by it recently when i was playing with one of my friends who has slowly started playing xiv. So, so much of what i consider obvious, basic knowledge is just never taught to players by the game. My friend did the xvi even just after finishing 2.0 and was so confused when the button mashing mechanic came up, and all the different markers in the game are also just never explained, and thats just a small part of everything ive just thought of as basic knowledge. I think now is a good time to just take a breath and actually help out these players cus when shit is actually explained to u, this content really isnt that hard, but going in without all the prerequisite knowledge we all just take for granted... i can see why some of them are struggling rn

[@justingallimore7492]

I've tanked honey B twice 2nd time I only died once and the trial before the last one I managed to do without dying but on that I had a fantastic co tank helping through guiding me

[@cowinjapanese6896]

"Don't play with them" isn't really a valid response imo. Like, yeah, I've carried plenty of parties, but at some point I expect basics like "don't stand in the glowing orange danger zone", which is a constant since ARR to be known. And yes, I've seen people not understand this in DT. If I just leave whenever people are that bad, I legit don't get to play the game anymore.

[@NatCr3w]

I'll make an analogy for these people and what the FF14 content trajectory has done for the past 3 or so years. When people go into zero gravity environments they have to constantly workout. If they don't then due to the lack of gravity their muscles will begin to seriously atrophe to an unhealthy point. Much like a space station, FFXIV's content in the past has expected significantly less out of the playerbase the last couple of expansions. This has led to the skill floor of the community even for people who do most content beginning to degrade. Its been constant casual content with practically zero gravity. The only people who have been keeping up are those who intentionally seek the stimulation in EX and above content who have been the ones cheering the loudest for this shift. Now that FF has course corrected people have begun to feel the burn as their atrophed skillsets now have to work and grow. This is a good thing and they need to be patient through the discomfort and initial difficulty. If they stick with it they will get better and grow not only as a player but as a person. Struggle and failure breeds success and improvement. A lesson that feels lost in our modern instant gratification age. I encourage those struggling with the difficulty and personal growth to keep going. Before long you won't even recognize yourself with how far you have come. Just keep grinding and even if you don't become an Ultimate raider or Savage master. You'll still have improved and that is its own reward.

[@anteprs7908]

Struggle and failure breed annjoyance and no fun it makes ppl quit games they arent real life.

[@EdgeGilid]

@@anteprs7908 it only becomes annoying if one refuses to learn. overcoming adversity leads to fond memories you look back to later in life.

[@HoneyDoll894]

​@@EdgeGilidokay tbh i straight up don't think this is true. i admit I'm very casual, I've never done and EX or savage, but for me a lot of the raids from endwalker were plenty difficult enough to have fun in them. I don't really feel that way with some of these raids or dungeons. and i think this attitude of "you will grow as a person" is the same git gud bs that people use to say that introducing any mechanics to fromsoft games that could make them more accessible is heretical and stuff. yes some of those fights in end walker were pretty easy, but many were plenty difficult too. i think stuff like phoenix, pandaemonium, Athena, even endsinger and zodiark. for dt i think valigarmanda was very good, as was honey b, but i don't think so with bomb boy and eutrope. I'm pretty mixed on sphene, but i guess it was just a kinda forgettable fight aside from the everything combo. but yeah idk I don't feel like I've "grown as a person" because i did eutrope or whatever, or that becoming better at predicting the damage frames so i can start running to the next safe zone before the attack lands on my screen is that fun gameplay.

[@EdgeGilid]

@@HoneyDoll894 if "you will grow as a person" is the same thing as the git gud meme to you then im sorry but something is wrong with you fundamentally. growing, learning and being wiser are some things what makes us humans human. those example you mentioned are only difficult the first couple of times you encounter them, same thing as what is happening right now. lots of things looks and feels different because they are new but as you do them repeatedly you grow accustomed to them, they'll become more and more easily manageable. no one is good the first time, through practice some one grows. i myself going through zodiark for the first time had issues as well, our group wiped for like 4 times but what i did instead of complaining in the forums is to learn the fight like everybody else would. I honestly think if having a challenging gameplay is something you don't enjoy, might as well stay away from games that has any aspect of combat in it.

[@HoneyDoll894]

@@EdgeGilid okay the smug "better stay away from games that have combat" bit is just funny and revealing. I don't mind challenge, when i want a challenge thats totally cool, but in ff14 i feel the game already had challenge for me at a level i felt comfortable at. And the level of challenge in some of the ones just feels frusturating instead of fun, the same way i think elden ring is a worse game than ds3 because elden ring feels less fun in the challenge.

[@ExireHG]

I'm so tired of people misunderstanding the word 'casual'. It's more about time commitment than difficulty, both are relevant, but it's moreso the former. Also, as a mostly casual player, I don't want the game to be braindead! I hope they keep this kind of dungeon content. It's an actually realistic curve from Dungeons - Raids/Trials - Extreme - Savage. It's an MMO, time to act like a player in one. Use chat, talk, encourage, ask questions, _engage._ I was doing a Normal Raid roulette just yesterday and got that Trash Collector boss in Alexander. Wiped like 5 times, everyone was talking, had a good attitude, and we cleared! Even though it took longer than I was expecting, it was a good time. Don't let yourself suffer in silence.

[@brandohernandez9991]

If your not into mmorpg of course it’s going to be hard and it’s learning curve we all are not the same it’s gonna take a while. Get that trust, prepare to fail a lot, don’t be scared and eventually pass that trial it’s gonna be worth it. I promise you that

[@anteprs7908]

You shouldnt fail a lot in casual content that why it casual it meant to have clear cut mechanics.

[@brymitai]

to be honest i don't think its that difficult however casual players carry the games lifespan the more the game is inviting the more the game grows every mmo is Casual>hardcore population it just simple. I do feel most will get over the sting of it being to difficult though. Start focusing on one extreme or the other is bad im sure they will find a good balance though

[@anteprs7908]

@@brymitai casuals do it do extreme if they chose to do it they become midcore

[@Splucus]

I am sure most casual player out there enjoy this level of difficulty look at the comment on the forum It's more positive than negative and I think I like it

[@anteprs7908]

@@Splucus non of those ppl are causal we dont post on forum that op is a expection and the comment are attacking that casusl player

[@Splucus]

@@anteprs7908 and where are the causal do you think it is then ? if they have that much why not come and say something like or dislike agree or disagree on the matter of difficality that happen and what Definition of "causal" do you mean to who?? just people like op ??

[@RicardoSantos-oz3uj]

The raid is not hard. Is midcore at best. .

[@elrilmoonweaver4723]

People who complain about DT fights being too hard go by the assumption that players are not supposed to LEARN how to complete a mechanic. A fight mechanic is only difficult when you're unfamiliar with it, but once you've understood how it works and have practiced it several times, doing it in the future becomes way easier and way less stressful. The first DT raid tier fights are incredibly fun in Normal and I am so so excited to see them in Savage too.

[@HoneyDoll894]

tbh this might be true a little, i think valigarmanda is a very fun fight, but the first time i did it we wiped like 6 times. I don't think the king bomb and eutrope are fun, but in those runs we wiped 0/1 times, and were carried by healers ressing the team and stuff, so i never quite learned how to properly do the mechanics. still i think the mechanics in those fights are just inherently less fun (more of the move instantly from one side of map to other and mapwide damage zones you have like 1-2 seconds to read and react by moving to the opposite side of the map)

[@kokeru]

gonna be honest i think personally most of the difficulty comes from actually seeing the mechanics trough the flashing lights and vfx....like i know what the mechanics are I just cant see them

[@ManhNguyen-vd5qj]

People tend to forget that the 1st and 2nd boss in dead ends still gets people even by the end of the expansion lol

[@MegaKaims]

Theres an easy response to these kinds of posts: Casual doesnt mean EASY, casual means low commitment content! Meaning that by design every piece of content in the game has been designed to be beatable given "ENOUGH" time. Yes, even your granny could beat the hardest Ultimate in the game if they would dedicate enough time to learn, practice and execute what is needed to beat that content. Well of course the time needed to to beat it might take ages, even years possibly but still by design its possible. What this person is unhappy about is that they feel like they should be able to enjoy the game without "any commitment" nor engagement, and just clear the content without any friction since its dubbed "CASUAL". Clearly seen by their dismissal when anyone offers advice and things they could practice on. And that kind of mindset is toxic, even casual players want to enjoy FFXIV just as much high end raider does. Watching a movie and just pressing WAD and 123 is not engaging gameplay to anyone who is even slightly interested in actually playing the game. Not to mention that everything gets easier as patch goes along since parties average item lvl is ever increasing.

[@meteorwalkergg]

The weird dichotomy is that non-casuals reject homogenized design from the devs while insisting on homogenizing the play practices of casuals. It's quite the feedback loop & the definition of insanity 😂

[@anteprs7908]

@@MegaKaims but it not toxic to ask for casual content to be easy it mean for casuals

[@EdgeGilid]

@@anteprs7908 again casual doesn't mean EASY

[@DuelerIsKing]

@@anteprs7908 It is casual. It's content that can be cleared by any group min ilvl in a single lockout with no prior knowledge. What is being asked for is that casual content be turned into tourist content.

[@anteprs7908]

@@DuelerIsKing it the difficult and unclear mechanic that dont make it ,savage by you logic and ultimates are casusl content to? What bring ask is for cadusl content to not be chaotic and have bad confusing mechanics and it bring ask by the target audeince of the content aka the casuals, you think that making casual content more difficult is what we want to but thar not true the guestion now is how many expantion are left before ffxiv reaches its wow shafowlands phase and nearly die .

[@dandeegan3913]

The "git gud" people all come across like 16-year olds who would be scared to ask for extra ketchup at mcdonalds in real life, but since it's the internet they can be the alphas.

[@Thessalin]

One of the BEST feelings I get from any MMO I've played has been getting players through content that is frustrating them. Don't need the comms, don't need the thanks, just the happy relief that they can do it and maybe move on. Did the big dragon serpent boss once myself. Took the WHOLE TIME for the team to knock it down but we did. Then, I got it on a trial roulette: they were SO frustrated. I was tanking, so me and another person was good at it put a symbol on our heads. "Just follow us but here is what you are looking for and why." BOOM! One wipe, but then second attempt easy lemonade! I did the last raid and WOW I just rocked that for no reason. We wiped twice, but I had only the wipe deaths. Hotness. (Now that Alexandria dungeon, I floor tanked the O X boss guy... my brain JUST. COULD. NOT. get it. Not sure why. We all have our moments.) So bottom line: Help your fellow players shine! Who knows, maybe you'll make a friend or inspire someone! (Total aside- but in heroic Shattered Halls in WoW BC original, I was helping a friend through it on my hunter. On "that pull", which if you've played it enough, you know which one, everyone just kersplatted. Me and my kitty killed the whole pull by kiting them almost to the beginning. The tank, healer, and other DPS were just in awe. My friend was just "Thess... dude... you enjoyed that." And I'm like "Heck yeah I did!" And the healer and tank rolled a hunter later and I become their mentor on becoming a new set of alt-o-holics. Great times.) Cheers y'all!

[@Gardelias]

I've been playing since late? Shadowbringers and been pretty much an MSQ main, and outside of that only really engaging with content like 24-mans, leveling up new jobs in Bozja, stuff like that. That's all I needed to get a kick out of the game, as anything more chaotic than that like EX/Savage trials just looked like way too much for my poor ADHD bogged brain to handle. Yet, Dawntrail has been the expansion that really just turned a light on in me. Wait, I actually get to die to mechanics for not paying attention and my job is now keeping others alive and not just the tank as they pull wall to wall? Dungeons haven't felt this at-first punishing but on a second try genuinely just really fun in a long time. Hell, it got me to *actually* use the Party Finder and try to join practice parties for the first EX Trial. All this to say, I LOVE the direction they're going in with battle content this expansion. If it gets a casual scrub like me to say "Okay, but what if I actually tried? If I can handle this, surely I can try going a step above", then they must be doing something right.

[@Cellybeans]

welcome to doing content minimum ilvl since no one is currently overgeared all old normal difficulty content done minimum ilvl no echo (MINE) settings feels like this; just spicy enough to be interesting since not respecting mechanics results in death, but the mechanics themselves are easy to figure out and execute if you pay attention especially ARR optional dungeons, nothing humbles u like pharos sirius MINE >:]

[@hkoizumi3134]

I think the poster is in denial. Denial about getting older. I say this because Stormblood during launch had difficult dungeons. Shinryu fight at the end had people frustrated to no end. It wasn't uncommon for that trial on normal required more than one lockout. And not to mention the alliance raid was notoriously difficult. The whole reason why a lot of people complained about lack of difficult in endwalker was because we were still riding high from stormblood and many missed it. The Dawntrail was the revival of the halcyon days.

[@Maxpphire]

As someone who plays FFXIV very casually, as in I do not do on content savages or extremes as I cannot keep up with doing damage and dodging mechanics at the same time: Dawntrail isn't actually harder, however, it is more engaging. All of the bosses still have a tell with attacks, this time being more picky on when they do give us the hand holding orange ground tell. We shouldn't be looking at the ground, we should be looking at the boss. The Time for Tells going off, regardless if they show on ground or show from boss is roughly about the same. Casual content is still casual, it's just, you're not attacking the floor, so paying attention to only the floor during fights doesn't make sense to begin with.

[@Draylin41]

I literally just got through The Mothercrystal on my Trial Roulette today with a couple players that either didn't know or forgot how that fight works. They were constantly dying and nearly wiped us by running away with one of the multistacks. I get that it probably didn't feel good to them to be playing so badly but I actually didn't mind it and it added a bit of stress to a fight I barely engage with as a healer with a good group. It kind of is a case of those players accepting that they did poorly and moving on rather than calling for nerfs to encounters. I like when it feels like some actual stacks are on the line, I like to be challenged a little. If making fights that casual players can't quite grasp is the price to get that, I'm fine with it and will do what I can to help them so they can be fine with it too.

[@juicegirl2696]

I’m really glad damage actually is threatening now, and it really adds to my experience in the story. I remember during the 2nd trial really feeling the intensity of the fight and the struggle of the WoL. I was playing Sage, and I remember mid fight feeling my character stomp their foot on the ground and scream “I won’t let you kill anyone else!” and proceed to heal mitigate like my life depended on it. It was really eye opening to how these moments raise the story experience. It was that feeling that made me try current content Extreme for the first time, and it’s a blast. I’m even considering going into Savage when it comes out. I’m excited to see how far I can go now, and to watch my progress as a healer.

[@AmyNDarko]

bruh i was estatic that i was dying in the dungeons. For me level 100 content SHOULD be hard at first. I love day 1 content because no one knows what they are doing and my dumbass ends up zooming around dodging stuff i wasnt expecting. Its what gives me that thrill.

[@Tyrannotaur]

I started playing pre Shadowbringers after a friend finally convinced me to try the free trial and have been hooked ever since. I will enter times of obsession where it is all I play and then I'll take a break for months and eventually come back to catch up on what I missed. It has been the single most positive and generally fun MMOs I have ever played. Everyone on the Exodus server and connecting worlds is so nice and helpful. I've only ever been called out once for being "bad", which was on the first time I did Ravana and was dying a bit to the point I wasn't "contributing to the DPS" enough for this person. However they were quickly told to be quiet by others in the group I didn't even know. All that being said, I do feel for this person. I consider myself more of an "advanced casual" where I am willing to learn mechanics and often know what I am doing, but will still die to stupid stuff I should see coming. Dawntrail has been a fantastic expansion for me, but there were some fights I just generally didn't like. Granted doing them more and more I will overcome the issues I have with them, but I get what they are saying about the spike in difficulty. If you are just trying to clear the MSQ you don't want to feel discouraged to do so when you keep dying to a mid dungeon boss. Like you said, this is still early for these particular raids and they are optional content so they can always be done later on. I just feel like people are feeling discouraged because they feel like they are a detriment to their party if they die to a mechanic that everyone else avoided easily. The Honey Bee fight in particular, I felt blind sided in the "performance" part where you have one heart already and have to stand in a circle that gives you another heart only to have a very small window to dodge being granted a 3rd heart and being stunned. That hit me a few times on my first run. I personally wasn't mad about it, but I can understand the frustration. Ultimately it comes down to "learning the fight" however. I definitely agree we need to push for encouragement rather than trying to tear down people because they don't meet our expectations. If you are concerned about players not knowing were to go, you can use the "dorito" icon to help guide them on the right path. I've had many kind people including my friends do that for me and others. I just don't like the gatekeeping and entitlement that comes out sometimes. This is a mostly cooperative game and we all need to work together.

[@idno4856]

@@Tyrannotaur well said

[@Zoeila]

Get gud...in all seriousness I think the mechanic resolving to fast complaint is due to the tell being the bosses animation like raising an arm but people are staring at their hotbar so they only see a telegraph briefly flash on the ground.

[@Zoeila]

I say get gud but I had a viper that died like 7 times. We raised him every time and never complained and will teach people if they are willing to learn and I find people if you don't make them feel bad and just offer mechanical advice will be elated. Had a group wiping on first boss of origenics I mentioned about the arms and said it was similar to boss of holminster switch and they were like oooh I get it now. And we had a good time.

[@hisdudeness1835]

To me dying in content others already cleared isn't fun. I lie on the floor, the others resolve the mechanic and I hardly learn anything. I run dungeons with Trusts precisely because if I die, I have to restart and therefore learn the fight. Since I am still catching up (mostly, I am in DT at least) I never really had to run content more than once. Poetic gear was easily available so running raids more than once felt unnecessary. So I never really learned many of the fights.

[@AgentRedShirt]

I think what they mean by mechanics resolving too quickly to process, is they don’t catch the animation in the arena or off to the side or the boss itself and they’re waiting for the telegraph on the floor but by the time the telegraph shows up it’s almost too late. That’s my guess anyway. But they started doing that a lot in shadow bringers were you actually had to pay attention to what the boss was doing And not just the paint on the floor so it’s not really new maybe just ramped up a little? I think it’s fine though. Definitely more engaging and I like it. And for the record, I am nowhere near an expert. I haven’t done hardly any savage stuff and I get it. But I also have a thing for overcoming adversity. like somebody wise said, the only difference between a master and a beginner is that a master has failed way more times.

[@bluesrike]

People seem to forget the first three words said in the entire game: Hear. Feel. *Think.* And the last line of "Answers": "Thou must live, die and know."

[@SilentW01f119]

I agreed with you until you got on the basics topic, and it pushing your opinion on them. Are the basics not just the average expectations of the player and their role. For instance, a player following the ABC’s, or not using AOE on single targets. Even if a player who doesn’t learn their jobs rotations and plays follow the shinny on their hot bars would be expected to at least perform the basics. Hell the game even has a built in tutorial system for, the basics.

[@JediMB]

I consider myself a pretty casual player, to the point where I've barely played any Dawntrail dungeons/trials without Duty Support. I didn't really notice an uptick in difficulty, but maybe that's also in part because I played most of it as a Paladin and the rest as Viper. I'm only now leveling my first healer job, having gone from CNJ 16 to WHM 55 over the past week or so. So I'm focusing on other content right now, but sooner or later I'll go through the Dawntrail dungeons again to make sure that I remember the mechanics before I play them with other players. That's always a good starting point.

[@stevenalvarez2924]

So in a vacuum you are correct to say that that players are not all at this skill level. A point I would like to focus on is that Dawntrail is just the start of a story, it is not the start of an MMORPG in general. At bare minimum these players have already spent hundreds of hours playing the MMO and honestly do need to start improving their skills. Not demanding them do hard content but at bare minimum be competent at the video game of their choice if it's a game they have already sunk hundreds of hours in. These type of hours is roughly the time Speed Runners have or pro-players have to fine tune their skills. All ffxiv is asking now is for them to not be bad anymore at this point.

[@emmabailey3585]

i agree with every single one of your points in this video. it's been so baffling for me to see people getting so bent about the difficulty of the fights right off the bat. like, give it a month at least, surely? and then the next time you queue it there will be at least a few people on your team who know exactly what they're doing. complaining about the difficulty after like two days is astonishing to me. do these people not remember Eden's Verse: Iconoclasm ??????

[@arbrawlchamp]

My only expectation is that people do need to AoE trash mobs in dungeons, and even that is more of a "polite advisory" moment. Other than that, I will happily carry someone to the end of a trial, normal raid, dungeon etc, I got Thin Air and Swiftcast, no one stays on the ground long if I can help it.

[@kisparks]

Endwalker seemed to have had a gap for those players who liked engaging content but weren't quite wanting to commit to savage raiding. The lack of a field operation on top of a disappointing easy relic grind has caused many people, those who describe themselves as mid core or casual with no real content to do in the game. Dawntrail is a direct reaponse to this feedback and its refreshing. We're going to get even more. Variants and deep dungeon and field operations but seeing feedback and knowing Devs knee jerk over correction, I can understand why players are getting low key hostile. Endwalker content felt less like a game and more like sleepwalking. People don't want to return to that. The trust trials give you revives in battle. I dont see why they cant add that to trusts.

[@colinhouweling8615]

Very well said Not to mention that people still haven't learned their openers or roatition on their level 100 jobs also wait you play on crystal I also play on crystal and Honestly even tho I haven't done any harder content outside of ew extremes and some of the older savages like hw and arr savages I can honestly say that dying in an normal raid can be very good because thats means that your are dying to an mech and if you want to get past that mech that you need to study it and learn what to do Its honestly refreshing to have the normal raids somewhat a bit harder!

[@kelosrobi3770]

There's nothing like the rush of tring to heal and MIT a group stack with four people in it. Also, it's totally okay to wait on the rez, just watch the mechanics for a moment, calm down, and come back when you get the flow of battle.

[@ulibarriL]

I would never be the person that tells someone, "Sounds like a skill issue." This is very dismissive and not very compassionate to your fellow player. Instead, encourage these players to rise up to the challenge. It can be a very gratifying experience to tackle content that previously tackled you. Even normal mode trials and raids should provide some resistance. This is a point where the game should take things a bit more serious, and players should as well, and if failure is not met with consequence, then there really is no point. They might as well make everyone invincible and just steamroll the boss. This is not actually playing the game.

[@SageTigerStar]

I agree. I'm a fairly casual/lower-midcore player and I found this expac to be pretty cool. I was decently challenged and the dungeons had some interesting mechanic combinations. Some definitely had some spice to them, but for the 90-100 range, I'd say it's the perfect difficulty for midcore, helping more casual players ease into harder content and if they're cool with it, they can then try out some of that optional side-stuff :)

[@fean2712]

The "skill issue" is what I interpret as the thread OP's attitude: where they don't *want* to learn. Wishing the healer won't rez them because they don't want to do the content? Or "why should I care if others are just going to be bad anyway?" From a casual content player: The most important thing you can do to learn casual content is pay attention. And as you learn, you improve. Really, one of the best times to learn is when you're dead, because then you don't have to worry about things like your rotation or trying to make it to where you think a safe spot is. That the OP doesn't even seem willing to do that much leads me to be incredibly dismissive of the whole post. Which, as the post is the de facto representative of "DT is too hard", leads me to be dismissive of the entire opinion.

[@ulibarriL]

@@fean2712 I interpret wanting the healer to leave them dead as defeatism. Some might see it as wanting to be carried, but I think what differs there is the discouragement to continue, whereas a player ok with being carried wouldn't even care. The only thing they do care about is getting their green checkmark. This is exactly why creating a game that leans too far into easy mode is a really bad idea. Catering to these kind of people severely limits what you can do as a designer for casual content. The thing about being dead, is that you can only learn from visual perspective. You can become aware of what the boss is going to do, but being aware of it and actually performing during mechanics are two completely different animals. The latter of which, can only be learned through hands-on experience. I understand why you would be dismissive of their entire post. I don't go to the forums much anymore so I have no read that thread, but I know that I would tell this person to not get discouraged, and to get back on the horse. Otherwise, dismissing them isn't required as they are already dismissing themselves.

[@lekkai7473]

The only thing that an argument can be made for "should be easy enough" is MSQ stuff, if its mandatory it should be reasonable, everything else is optional and there is no reason to complain about difficulty. People want hard things to play, if you don't, then don't play the trials and raids, you don't have to.

[@kawaiikanako71]

I like the new raids but it does make me very conscious of the limits my ADHD gives me. I have processing speed in the impaired range and while I have been able to get through the past game content, these raids are pushing those limits because it takes a lot more concentration to dodge and figure out the patterns/mechanics. I'm sure to the rest of my party it looks like I'm not trying hard enough to dodge but the sustained concentration to do that takes a lot out of me. I probably will never expect myself to do savage content and that's fine. However a lot of the new raid mechanics I have to dodge are faster than I can follow. I feel bad dying 5+ times each raid and I don't blame anyone if I get zero commendations which is typically what happens starting out unless a friend gives me a pity commendation. At that point, I feel like I'm being a burden on the team. It's gonna take me maybe 3 or more times playing the same raids for me to die less. Even then, there are still parts of the battles in Dawntrail where I still die in consistently like certain parts of the Vanguard dungeon where there's a ton of lasers to dodge. If the healers are enjoying raising me 8+ times, I cannot tell. Its more mortifying to start out doing this content that I don't really feel like this is content I would want to do everyday for sure. Once a week might be okay spaced out but it does make me sad that I can't do this content more without being terrible or inconsistent at staying alive.

[@Aitherea]

@@kawaiikanako71 just so you know, the people you queue in with cannot commend you. So those were from someone else 🙂

[@naomi_221]

@kawaiikanako71 as a fellow ADHDer with a slower processing speed I feel this comment so much! Thankfully I’ve got a group of friends that understand and help me through learning the mechanics. But it’s definitely something that makes me hesitant to run content with randoms. That’s the only point in the video I have to argue is that people do in fact have different levels of processing speeds.

[@naomi_221]

I should have added that, that being said I am enjoying DT content and finding it fun even if it is a little more mentally taxing for me. I definitely take more breaks to farm fates. 😅 But I recognize that because of my processing speeds I will never be a savage content player and I’m ok with that.

[@Itsnotthatdeep88]

If you look through the official forum posts while there are folks who are being dismissive about “bad” players there were also a LOT of people who were encouraging these people as well. At the same time the casual players who are saying it’s too hard are also dismissive to OTHER CASUAL PLAYERS who don’t agree with them. The respect for each level or type of player should be respected across the board.

[@kyyuun]

Honey B Lovely was the only "hard" fight for me (we had to wipe 2 times before we got it) 😭😭😭 Like come on

[@natebroadus8474]

It's not too hard unless you just want braindead content. I just did first time Tender Valley. I died so many times, as did my teammates. We died, we figured out mechanics, we died. The last boss got us a few times, but we learned, and when we cleared it was amazing. FFXIV needs more of that, not less. Games are meant to be challenging. If you can shut your brain off to do it, that's not a game. Every game that exists requires some form of challenge, or why even do it?

[@katharinavonwalde2222]

The issue is when someone quits, and comes back yes they have a lvl 90 character but they can’t even remember their previous skills or haven’t learned any changes the job already got. Then on top of relearning their class, they need to “get gud” as some say. As I only play for msq and not care about anything else.. I prefer msq content to have difficulty settings

[@toscatattertail9813]

Looooong time player here (since closed beta in 2013). Every Time there is an expansion the Overall Difficulty Rises... and people complain. 😂 -- The Healers complained because the tanks didn't need them and they were heard and now they are needed. The tanks and melee complained because the dungeons were too easy, guess what... now there is a challenge. So Yoshi P and the development team raised the difficulty to appease the demand that people do their job and not just slop through. -- There are also complaints in the beginning of every expansion about the mechanics, but avoiding those is a learned skill, that causes the player to think in different ways. 🙃if this long time 70 year old player with arthritic hands can learn and adapt then a 20-something player should have no problem at all once they learn how to think things through. -- your suggestions about the trust are very good, hopefully Yoshi P. see's that.

[@pomnek]

I usually play healer to go around queues but also so I can help people that sometimes struggle because its easier for me to keep everyone alive rather that random healers dying and then wipe, but it's insane to me that people think this is "hard" coming from other mmos this is regular difficulty or even "Easy" difficulty and tbh it's not even that "hard" you just have to pay attention because it's insane how many people don't pay attention and start complaining before even trying to understand and nomral raids are ok in difficulty yeah they have a lot of mechanics for a lot of people specially casual players, but there's nothing wrong with dying and trying again I would say its even better to die and learn than to die and quit because you get mad at the game, if you wipe try to let the group know if you understood the mechanic and someone else didn't that's why we play as a party so we can all learn and help each other

[@ZeroDennis]

What I noticed in Dawntrail is that mechaniques have a deceiving pace. Some, for example the sword-mechanique in the second extreme trial, seem unbelievably fast and punish you for rushing in to resolve them. The mechanique itself is actually very slow-paced and leaves you room for movement. Same with the Honey-B-Fight. It's not that fast-paced, but it disguises itself as such. The quick-beat rhythm of the music and the fast-paced high-contrast telegraphs are stressing, which makes you want to resolve them immediately, making you panic and run into hearts, while actually giving you enough time to maneuver through them. The only dungeon, where I always feel I don't have enough time to think about the mechanique is Alexandria with the X's and O's paired with the cleaves of the tentacle-monster. That shit is infuriating, since it makes you wait inside a telegraphed AoE, which is a nightmare for me.

[@EluviumMC]

I've definitely noticed a bump up in the level of focus needed for normal content. I usually like to use the trust system to get familiar with the mechanics of dungeons before I step in as I don't want to disappoint the party I'm with. Unfortunately, Tender Valley wasn't an option for this when I did it for the first time yesterday. Gladly, I was in a patient group that was okay wiping a few times (we wiped at lest once to each boss) but we (and be we I mean I) learned from it and got through. I pick things up a little slower than others, but for the most part, I appreciate that people are nice or at least not mean about it. I usually figure it out eventually or ask for a little help when needed. I don't want the content to be adjusted. I did M1 the other night and it was a lot of fun wiping a few times and having people joke about it and discuss how not to die next time. We all had a good cheer when we finally cleared it and that is what the MMO experience is supposed to be, IMO.

[@Tigerfly8888]

I think this content is more difficult and I find it enjoyable. My issue is that most of us are learning at the expense of others people’s time and it can get frustrating. I am usually the one dying and hate that I cause others frustration. Some players are more understanding than others and it becomes disheartening when the toxic behavior comes into play. Ex. I was in the Honey Bee fight and it was the first time for both healers along with others. After wipe 3, the tank started complaining to the healers. The healers were doing the best job possible healing and rezzing all the dead players. It made me angry and felt bad for the healers, who were doing their best. I am seeing more of this “toxic” mentality in this expansion. It is NEW content and has a learning curve especially for first timers. I wish people would understand that.

[@noppornwongrassamee8941]

First time I did the first boss in the Carnival dungeon, my party died many many times. We eventually beat it. Or rather, I as the tank eventually beat him by soloing him for the latter half of his HP while the party watched. I was just the first to figure out the fight and my tank job had enough self healing to cover any mistakes I made.

[@Z-iy5nu]

I like how even-handed you were in this video. I'd say I agree with all your points and I especially appreciated your defense of "bad" players especially in normal content. Also I've played this game for eight years and still forget my rotations or mess up mechanics. Sometimes I confuse dungeons or get tunnel vision. Skill and execution aren't these static things where if you can clear a Savage tier you're suddenly never terrible again. Mistakes happen.

[@Nyghtgirl27]

Do u find Dawntrail too difficult? Me who’s busy crafting: Huh?

[@EdgeGilid]

yeah that's the thing, you learn by dying, failing a mech or even wiping, which seems like these people aren't keen on doing. and yes a lot of people know going to party finder or roulette is a gamble, you will encounter bad players eventually and will take longer to clear a fight or a dungeon. leaving is an option yes but considering there is a 30minute penalty for leaving and if you're a dps player, you also have to deal with an atrocious queue time, i will end up just wasting more time, so instead we just stay, deal with it and just do the best i personally can to make the run go faster but that doesn't change the fact the the bad player is bein a nuisance by refusing to get a little bit harder. some of us have LIMITED TIME to play in a day so we want to get through our dailies as quick as possible without being unreasonable. some of us might not even have people to play with due to friend's busy schedule of others having prior appointments and such. itsa better option to just go through and finish the fight that we are doing than to look for a new random party. i don't pay their sub but they also do not pay my sub, and their refusal to try a little harder in the content we are doing together then they are wasting everyone else's time. Yes bad players exist that is to be expected, but the fact that some of these people refuse to learn EVEN WHEN PEOPLE ARE EXTENDING A HELPING HAND and trying to teach them the game. Have you ever had a whm on bardam's mettle that refuses to use any other healing skill other than cure 1? a measly freaking cure 1?? asked them to at least use their OGCDs to cure and use their holy on multiple mobs not only did i get no response, their friend who is also in the party said "shes a girl and she only plays casual" like bro that's not being casual that's griefing, now tell me who is the toxic one there? if we should expected that people will not play to our standards then people should also expect that we will not play by their standard.

[@anteprs7908]

at what point is their supost to be easy and relaxing content . we dont mind to fail but at what point do i get choice in the difficult of the EASIEST CONTENT in game . at what point can the casuals (most ) who loved ew dung go back to that difficult ? at what point do we no longer need ot be casuals and lose the relaxing part a CORE PART OF BEING CAUSAL and simple need ot suffer and stress over confusing and chaotic mechanics when all we ever asked fas for clear cut mechanics understood at the first time nto after 5 wipes . at what point can the 80% of the playerbase (casuals) get to enjoy the causal content like msq dungs ( the lv 97 and 99 one and last trail are a annjoying mess )? also how is it logic that casuals dont like casual content anymore but midcore and hardcore do at what point is that ok ? and why should the casuals change their playstyle in THEIR CONTENT for player who arent the target audeince of that content.

[@pauliuskvedaras9559]

Preach, king

[@EdgeGilid]

@@anteprs7908 the this is the content you been complaining about are dead ass easy to understand, you just dont want to learn something new, you people just want to stay inside your bubble and stay naive as possible just because you dont want to your your brains. casual doesnt mean braindead that not how it works. Casual pertains to low commitment into something you spend your time on. if you want to have dungeons as easy endwalker then just stay in endwalker. Endwalker really brought down the skill floor of the player base, the endwalker dungeons are braindead easy, dawntrail dungeons are easy but engaging. you are confusing casual players to bad players, most casual players dont mind the difficulty we have in dawntrrail, you people are what we call "turbo casuals" who thinks failing and learning should even be a thing in the game. you are like those turbo casuals in ff14 forums who are complaining that the devs are taking your enjoyment by making the game engaging. you people are a bunch of hypocrites.

[@cowinjapanese6896]

@@anteprs7908 EW was legit at a difficulty level that I could clear almost all of it while drunk off my ass. I have at multiple occasions fallen asleep in them. Yet even I am forced to interact with this content. Boredom is also a turn-off for people, just like a too high difficulty. If I'm forced to do this content to get to the harder parts, I would prefer it if I wasn't falling asleep half the time. EW really was way too damn easy.

[@anteprs7908]

@@cowinjapanese6896 fallen asleep nice to hear you got carried bored is turn of for non casuals me and most casuals love the ew dung difficulty

[@arkzulu]

I spent two days with a trust party in Anamnesis Anyder, but it was so satisfying to finally clear it. Regarding difficulty in content, it's a rather thornier issue. I have ADHD so sometimes content that some might consider easy or normal level are quite hard on me. I agree more engaging content is always better and more fun.

[@shad0wHunterAlek]

I love this game very much! I think I usually just feel bad if I die in whatever content I’m doing for the sake of others. I don’t want the content to be bad for other players bc I died any amount of times. I don’t think the dungeons are too hard. I’m sure they were probably just very frustrated at the time of writing that. Thank you for the video and encouragement 🎉! Going to keep trying to get better ☺️

[@4NSW3RM3]

As someone who started this game in April, I really think people underestimate how easy it is to go through this game barely learning mechanics or even the effective way to push buttons. I pretty much only played Dragoon, only started doing daily roulettes during Post Stb (because ilvl gating), and got to 90 in about 60 days. Then Dawntrail comes out, I hit 100 in maybe 8 hours of actual combat. The optimal rotation still leaves me scratching my head, and trying to execute it while not floor tanking. Granted, optimal isn't necessary for normal content, usually. But the point is, DT is the first time (outside of maybe Ivalice raids) that normal content felt actively tuned up and punishing for mistakes. I'm fine with that, it's forcing me to learn the game, learn to adjust my HUD and camera properly, and how to actively notice what's going on on the field and notice the guiding lines and symbols designed into arena. That said, I still need time to learn. I'm going to continue to suck until things actually click.

[@necrowolf77]

I get what you're saying, but they just need to get good, or not do the optional content, and despite it being only Normal, Raids are meant to be harder. And yes, being lvl 100 should mean that you at least know the basics. What are basics you ask? Mechanics that have been repeating for the last 100 levels worth of content. And just as you said "You can just not play with bad players" They can also NOT play content that they do not want to practice or can't handle. It goes both ways.

[@Itsnotthatdeep88]

Basics would be not standing on the orange and then get upset and mad because they have a vuln stack or die. The AOE for MOST of the game is orange and from the first dungeon you know not to stand in it….it doesn’t get more basic than that. Yet there are people who will say oh I didn’t know the giant orange circle on the ground.

[@zeozelos]

Im not sorry,if you dont understand stack markers and not standing in the glowing yellow aoe marks by level 100 you are objectively playing wrong and should shut up about difficulty.

[@RaxorX]

One thing I hate is how “get good” gets taken. What “get good” means is taking every failed attempt to learn. It doesn’t mean to suddenly be a pro. It means to take steps to learn how to pass something and that can include asking others for help.

[@Aitherea]

How do you expect it to get taken when it is pretty much the laziest, most dismissive answer that someone could give?

[@RaxorX]

@@Aitherea its pretty much why I don’t use the phrase. Its been used in bad faith far too often. The end goal is ultimately the same, accept that failure can happen and try again.

[@zeddoverkill]

I've not seen any issues with difficulty so far (but I have been doing MMOs for... a while >.>), but it has been fun. I am not quite done with MSQ (but I think I am close), and the biggest thing I had trouble with was the...second boss in the first dungeon, I think. Most chaotic set of telegraphs I have EVER seen, and I was laughing my butt off (was also running with FC mates, so, that helps). I think when it comes to folks having trouble, we should offer tips and encouragement. I'm not a mentor, but I have taught folks, both sprouts and notsprouts (can they even still have the sprout icon after 90?) about certain fights if I notice folks struggling before a wipe (the Phantom Dragon in The Burn, for example. Back before Endwalker). I agree, we need to lift folks up, not punch them down, so we can all have a good time in the game.

[@brandohernandez9991]

Bruh your not even my friend list love your attitude toward gameplay, we should lift them up when they are getting hard time, not trash them git gud or this game is not for you go play FarmVille.

[@microgravity]

It took me a few years of playing FFXIV for it to click in my head that there is absolutely no punishment for dying or even wiping. Once I truly understood that, I stopped being afraid of making mistakes, which helped me keep a clearer head, and then my skill level increased exponentially from where it was before because I stopped being afraid of using duty support to experiment with mechanics, see how much silly nonsense I can get away with. I think there’s a value in -trying to fail- sometimes because you can learn from that. Make challenges for yourself, try something ridiculous, like doing a fight in first person mode as a Lalafell! I mean obviously don’t try to fail while you’re playing with people unless everyone is into it, but the NPCs are so useful for learning. I just wish there was a practice mode with NPCs for MSQ-required trials, but since there isn’t, I watch guides first if I’m feeling unsure. Trying to learn is a fundamental building block to becoming more skilled, even if it takes a while. It took me about three years!

[@conorfitzpatrick1758]

It's not pushing them out of the game, It's pushing them to get better. It's way more rewarding when you overcome a hurdle rather then steamrolling content.

[@Windupchronic]

15:20 I don't necessarily agree with this. I _do_ think it's reasonable for the developers to design content at level 100 that's more advanced. I don't believe they should design content with the idea in mind that the player has gone through the MSQ with one job alone, in a game designed to level all jobs on one character, and that the player did no optional content, all the way up to 100. If people are choosing to skip content, that's their choice. It shouldn't affect the content of other players. I would instead encourage players to do more optional content.

[@Aitherea]

Lots of people WILL do more, but they havent GOTTEN there yet. My point is everyone plays the game in a different way, so being lvl 100 doesnt magically make you a good player. Experience is important, desire is important, motivation is important, time is important. I hardly did ANY optional content, i just played through the MSQ. Now, I have done every single ex trial in EW (edit: and the two new ones in DT), all the optional 24-mans and 8-mans, savage raids... I even unlocked mentor so I've basically done everything in the game except ultimate. But when I FIRST reached level 80, I was still a shit player. Honestly, I didnt even know anything about optimization until after playing for like two years. It's a journey and people are allowed to take it at their own pace.

[@anteprs7908]

@@Windupchronic would you like go erp more if you hate to erp if you answer is no why should casual who hate difficult content do more difficult content?

[@Windupchronic]

@@Aitherea I just feel that the developers shouldn't develop content based on the assumption that players are doing _only_ the minimally required content. I feel like that's not healthy for the future development of the game and its content. And it's not about being high level automatically making you a good player. A player's never going to become a good player if they're not being challenged to become good to begin with. Btw, for context, I am not a hardcode raider. I do not do savage or ultimates. I do the normal level raids only just for the story. DT has thrown nothing at me so far I couldn't handle.

[@Aitherea]

@@Windupchronic Babes i never said they should. I said people need to be more respectful of others :)

[@Windupchronic]

@@Aitherea I agree. Which is why I said in my first post that people should encourage others. I consider encouragement respectful. It's the difference between telling people they suck and rage quitting, or saying, "We got this, we're close. Let's try again."

[@cloudy4lockharty]

There is such a balance to strike and of course I'll be biased since I raid and been raiding since ARR, but here are my two cents. There is a large gap of mid content (mid as in middle level) not there. It is either balls hard savage or I sleep casual. I don't even think the idea is to be harder, I just like having fun mechanics. For me I loved Coil Raids, and despised Alex. Omega felt like a good middle. But I still pushed myself. I think there is a way to make things fun and challenging without it being hardcore. And of course as a raider, bring on the hardcore. But when dungeons go as badly as they do some of the times, it makes me wonder if we shouldn't be preparing casual content with something. I know the arguments may come to mention disabilities. But I'm of the mindset of if you really can't handle the game then don't play. I refuse to play Elden Ring cuz it isn't in my wheelhouse of skill but damn do I love the victory I see in others. I shouldn't dictate what a dev envisions and I play casual games as well, but even in those games it feels so boring. You still need to be fun and fun doesn't have to be hard, just engaging. What I'm seeing more of is that anything that requires engagement can make people frustrated, therefore nerfs. It is weird when I look at Animal Crossing and feel that New Leaf is more fun than New Horizons cuz of engagement, both are casual and don't require skill but effort. Either way, I'm all for more modes such as more casual, more mid, more hard. But I dislike when a group wants to change it. Same goes for hardcore getting mad at all easy content, I might get bored but I just avoid it, it isn't right for me to change the way content was intended either. And honestly my advice...I was (probably am) one of the slowest learners and die easily to things. But I just pick up and keep going. And if you can't/won't do that, then walk away. I did that for so many games. Same goes for games that are too easy, I walk away. The idea of 'git gud' gets taken by people who are highly skilled already and can understand the annoyance, but I'm truly not one of those, I can't 'see' mechanics, I can't figure out mechanics, I have to study and slam my head against the wall. But I end up getting it because I try. It is okay to try and be bad, I couldn't even beat titan ex when it was current for weeks. That fight really knocked me out but it taught me a lot. It forced me to engage with my job and mechanics and I'll forever love titan ex for that. I failed it so many times before it clicked. One great advice is, don't get hung up by how people may view you playing. Be honest in your pf, be honest if you're fresh, and even if they leave or say something let it fall off. Me mastering a fight overrides others who have no impact on my life after the duty. And you'll be surprised how you find amazing people who are random. I met some of the greatest people in the world from that and they knew I was a baddie that wanted to try :)

[@DantoriusD]

But before talking about a Gap in "Mid Content" you have to define what Mid Content actually is. Also where put the the line between Casual,Mid and Hardcore. You could ask 20 differend People and getting 20 differend Opinions. For one everything above 4ppl Party size is already Mid and for the Other Savage is Mid and for Person 3 even Ultimates are Mid. It is hard to have an Argument when everyone has a differend Opionion about Difficulty Levels.

[@cloudy4lockharty]

@@DantoriusD Yeah its all subjective. For me ARR had the best mid content. Hard dungeons that truly were difficulty, the beginning parts of the relic quest. Stuff and yeah I agree for people its subjective that is why its the game and dev's job to create the litmus. It is accordance to what the game determines 'easy', 'middle', 'hard'. I can't create that since its not a game I made. So honestly...I'm saying its not the fans to determine easy, mid, hard its up to the devs and we follow in place. Sometimes the player/customer isn't right and can't make those hard choices. But we can determine we want more content in spaces that is always valid, then we either like it or not. I just want options. In ARR we had easy= dungeons, story, gardening, leveling jobs and their story quests, (gathering/crafter may vary haha) mid=end game dungeons such as hard modes, the primal hard fights, 24 man raid, relic hard= coils, PVP???? (I don't touch PVP lol, not my thing) It is accordance to the game NOT players opinions.

[@Erothaur]

OP was a Red Mage main too. If they were learning and staying alive they would have a lot of capacity to help repair the fight.

[@LithKast]

one thing I disagree with. you should know how to recognize tells by lv 100. I think a lot of us veteran players forget they redesigned the early game to teach you how to understand markers. how to understand what to recognize is bad and move from it. then they introduce new mechanics but you are supposed to retain the info. no one is saying that you need to know all dawntrail mechs by 100. they are saying you should be up to snuff on your mechanics in general by lv 100 and be a good enough player to avoid them. and even the best players in the game die by standing in the bad by accident but the journey to lv 100 and going through all of ff14 msq (not just DT) is meant to teach you and make you better.

[@DGTL4NGL]

I agree with you, we need more people that will be patient and help people learn more. The hardest part is the fact that someone can story skip and lvl skip, play the new content and 3 days as whatever class. This is thw hardest part, but there are some that do have patience and will down vote a quit vote. - Wyther Wintersongs - Zalera

[@AeeanPlays]

I ran the raid series on paladin, but let me tell you what, that sustained damage was taking chunks out of me at 699 ilvl. Raid 2, had me a little raging a bit, but after you really figured it out, you were like, oh that makes sense.

[@TheDaiuc]

You... Took... Damage?

[@asdsad17]

actually, the trust will dps harder if you're taking too long. wiping on the first day is what makes it fun.

[@slamwisebamgee]

Also, yes, you can absolutely abandon a duty. The players may not like it, but it's always an option and what matters the most is that you're playing the way you want to 😊

[@RachelStormborn]

This happens every expansion. It’s not “get good scrub” issue like so many “I’m just a better player” people are saying…it’s because it’s new. No one knows the dance steps yet so it seems harder. Once the fights are understood, it’s not nearly as big an issue and the complaints die down. Just be patient and stop with the “it’s your lack of skills” bs.

[@Jake38nine]

I had a Healer, I think, in Vangaurd tell me to equip my Vanguard Tank gear that I got so I can "Tank better". My Item Level was 660. The AVERAGE Item Level of the dungeon in Vanguard is 645. I'm sorry, but not sorry, but if YOU can't heal me at 660 IL as a Tank in Vanguard, then YOU as the healer are a BAD healer. These types of players who feel self-righteous NEED to do EVERY content at the LOWEST Item Level possible before they can ever act self-righteous and act like they're better than everyone else and can boss random people around in a duty finder dungeon. I showed my friend screenshots of the dungeon chat log and my friend looks at the stats of their DPS and whatnot, so they looked at this person's Raid progress: They hadn't even cleared a single tier of savage since either Shadow Bringers or EW Tier 1, and Tiers 2 and 3 maybe had clears for raids 1 - 3. So yeah, not very self-righteous ENOUGH. The person even said that, "You SHOULD want to play at the very best." Sorry, but my idea of someone playing at THE very best is someone who can clear EVERY piece of content at MINIMUM Item Level possible for EVERY content in the ENTIRE game. Which even majority of Savage and Ultimate players DO NOT do or HAVE NOT done. So yeah, when you have personal views like that and you bully me, I WILL hold the highest and hardest standards for you just to see you stumble over your goddamn words/feet and make a fool of yourself.

[@TheLogan1156]

6:43 I'm actually gonna disagree with this point to an extent. As someone who's been in a bunch of statics for progging savage and ultimate, there most definitely is a disparity in processing speed from one person to the next. Mechanics like Party Synergy, Death of the Heavens, and the entirety of P5 of TOP have made this abundantly clear to me. That's not to say that the gulf is so massive that it can't be overcome, but the difference is there nonetheless. But to the point you make immediately after, the biggest thing that differentiates top raiders from everyone else is practice, pure and simple. You don't get to be a 99 parser or week one clearer because you're just intrinsically better than everyone else.

[@_Tinkabell_]

As someone who is horribly bad at catching on to fast mechanics in ANY game, I honestly love it. Me failing time after time helps me actually learn how to play the game, that’s my opinion on it though 🤷🏾‍♀️

[@katmeerkats]

While I've enjoyed the difficulty of Dawntrail, it IS very dismissive to say "this content is optional," because we as a community have been emphasizing the inclusiveness of normal content as a differentiator from other MMOs and tbf, raid stories have always been relevant to the main story and are not optional if you are a story and lore enjoyer. That being said, in a few weeks, everyone will have more ilevels and the normal raids will be easier to clear. We can encourage people to not do raid story content for a few weeks after launch if they are that overwhelmed and unhappy with how the fights are. I'd like to add to that, people were being snarky in chat about player deaths when I did the fights on day one. People like that need to go play with their friends and stay out of duty finder which will also help with folks who are overwhelmed and anxious by new fights. A lot of people who are gamers are very socially anxious. I also think there are better words to use than "bad" to describe people who struggle to clear video game content.

[@Emosh]

before watching im just gonna leave a general comment. "its okay to be bad" this is exactly what Endwalker did to people. it made it okay to be complete dog water with zero incentive to get better. nevermind the try hard or casual argument but more so for self improvement and as such self enjoyment. coming to dawntrail from endwalker has been an amazing experience for me personally because i started playing the game around 6.3 ish. since then ive cleared p9s-p12s and every ultimate except ucob. that being said i am very happy with the direction the content is going. the story was a slog but the content made it all bearable in the grand scheme of things.

[@meteorwalkergg]

Use Party Finder & Discord to pre-form instead of cold queuing into random matchmaking with strangers who are just vibing. This isn't rocket science, it's childhood development level social science. Get a clue.

[@meteorwalkergg]

NBA players be like, 'man, these pick-up games at my local park have DOG WATER basketball players' 💀

[@Emosh]

@@meteorwalkergg shitty example. i mean i technically just started playing and i know what its like to be bad lmao ive been there before. there is a difference between people that enjoy getting better and people that dont. this game coddles players that do not want to get better because they dont feel the need to and Endwalker really made that clear.

[@anteprs7908]

Ew made casual enjoy casual content and no ew dung arent braindead but simple easy and fun for casual.you not casual you dont get to say what good casual content

[@Emosh]

@@anteprs7908 you dont know what casual content is.

[@Aghul]

The dichotomy of complaining about "the game is too easy" and then two weeks later the same people moan about how "the game is way too hard" is what gets me. I feel like many of the players who complain about the difficulty now have never even tried their hands at anything other than storymode content. And honestly ... I DO believe if you play up to lvl 100, it's fair to expect players to be able to learn new mechanics, new patterns etc. At that point, stack markers, tank busters etc. have been in so many dungeons and normal raids that I am absolutely baffled whenever I meet a high level player who runs off to Narnia with their stack marker. Also there's not really any penalty to dying/wiping. So what if a fight doesn't get cleared on the very first try? I remember when that used to be normal. Players are just not used to it anymore. Noone expects you to get a perfect clear on your first blind run.

[@Enis1198]

The line and donut attack have been in normal mode, mandatory content before in Endwalker. if you're complaining about that you've already seen it before. Saying mechanics resolve too quickly for some arbitrary mental capacity is just them saying they think mechanics are too fast for people too slow to do them. The only thing random in this game are the other players. Everything happens in a relatively set order with some variation in some very specific fights. "Hard core" players have only gotten criterion/CS as "new" types of content that is something other than the 4 savage fights every few months and the 2 ults that come in an expansion. if you feel casuals need more content to roller face in, players who want more engaging--not even hard--content also need something to make logging in worth their time. Personally, I work under the philosophy that if you want to learn you will, but there are people who die in content and figuratively bury their head in their hands and just say how bad they are throwing pity parties in chat instead of looking to see how people are doing mechanics or asking questions. There are people that absolutely do not want to learn but still want to clear because this is their hobby and its what they do to relax but its everyone else's too. Lvl100 players shouldn't necessarily be in TOP clearing with 6 tanks, but it absolutely means you should recognize not to stand in glowing orange circles or do a basic three part combo. I don't want or even need my random party members to be savants at the game I just want them to. no matter what role I'm playing, not make something that should be fun feel like a chore. I want to play picto because I think its really fun and flexible but for my own sanity I can only heal or play red mage because people don't know how to stay alive because I feel like I'm a burden for not being able to get them off the ground. Players who just don't give a shit are absolutely a burden and this is a primarily PvE team MMO if you're playing and are floor dressing and think its just fine you have to have come to some conclusion that the other people in your duty are like bots or NPCs or something. I really cant get behind this line of logic because its just selfish buts it a kind of selfishness I see people defending a lot. If someone wants to sandbag in a game, go do that in single player or at least go do it duty support or trusts. If you're stuck with bad players fights can take full lockouts. If people don't just leave. I've already had more vote abandons in the last week than I've had in normal content since starting this game. But I also think people should honestly just do vote kicks more often instead of penalizing themselves for bad players unless the overwhelming majority were causing issues because its just less stressful. God I hope they never touch EX or savage. 19:12 easy: if youre a healer, know how to heal and stay alive as much and as long as possible; if you're a tank, know how to press mitigation and stay alive; if you're a dps but you're not confident enough to do big number, just stay alive and help mitigate so they healers/tanks don't have to baby sit you specifically out of 3 to 7 other players. overall don't stand in this shit that will kill you and do what as the role you queued in as needs you to do. Its doesn't help anyone to have to just accept people not wanting to do the bare minimum. All the content in question is played with other PEOPLE. why should you have to respect someone who clearly doesn't respect your time? This just turns more people away from doing group content.

[@solitonmedic]

I love the choice between going with NPCs or with players Instant queue? Players carrying you? Or would you rather learn the fights solo?