Al-Ghazali vs. Aristotle: The Truth About Causality

[@Horizonsofthemind3437]

How do you evaluate al-Ghazali's views on causality?

[@andrejuthe]

It closely aligns with Hume's perspective. However, one issue with this view is that it also assumes God establishes a causal link between "our observations" of a cause and its (non-inherent) effect, as well as our belief in that causal connection (since on this account our observation is what _causes_ our beliefs in inherent causation). Otherwise would our habit of observation nature's cause and effect have an inherent causal effect on our mind. Additionally, it requires (inconsistently) that God's act of causing something must be inherent; otherwise, we encounter a bootstrap problem-namely, that God would need to cause His own causality to function, which would lead to an infinite regress (i.e., God causing the cause that causes the cause, and so on, ad infinitum).

[@Horizonsofthemind3437]

@@andrejuthe There is a Turkish saying “Allah knows”, I don't know how it will translate in English, but sometimes this word saves our faith. Sometimes we don't get too hung up on the “Cause - Effect” relationship (when we can't perceive the event or don't want to think about it) because if Allah did it, He knows something. In my opinion, in every event that happens, either God willed it that way or it happened according to our choices. For example, in the Qur'an (Surah Zâriyât - 47 : We established the sky by Our might and We are expanding it). The Quran informed us about this centuries ago. But modern science has only recently reported that the universe is expanding. Conclusion: the universe is expanding. But why? Who knows. “Dark Energy” according to science.) God knows the unseen. People have interpreted “Causality” either as they can perceive it or as it suits them. That is why there is a lot of misinformation. For example, the ideas of Ibn Sina and Farabi were opposed by al-Ghazali.

[@AbbaJifarTube]

Al-Ghazali's occasionalism does not represent all schools of Islam , I think asharism follows that pattern.Occassinalism has problems with free wills like determinism does. I know that we can't understand in full how the cause and effects work,but there is a room when our cause purely leads into effect like sins that is why we are held accountable, If Allah causes the effect of sin then we don't have free will so we are not hold accountable for it ,so this will be some kind of hidden determinism (apparently determinism appeal to natural chain of cause). So there are some ways Allah causes the effect like creating and there are some ways people cause effects like sin or good deeds for a reward

[@Horizonsofthemind3437]

@@AbbaJifarTube In my opinion, Allah gives us two outcomes such as Paradise and Hell by giving us two paths (a kind of test), Sin and Reward. He has left the choice to our free will. The fact that Allah knows who will go to Heaven or Hell now is not because of His influence on our will, but because He knows the past and the future. This is my opinion and it may be wrong. I do not claim that it is right.

[@AbbaJifarTube]

@@Horizonsofthemind3437 I totally agree on the knowledge of Allah.But again the choice itself is not determining factor for reward or punish.Even Satan never held accountable by his choice when he was hiding it when Allah told Angels 'I am going to put man (khalifa) on earth,so Satan was hiding something in himself that means he already did choice to disobey Allah,yet Allah never held him into accountable(still Allah called him among angels while he knew that he can't be angel)until he caused the rejection of bowing down to Adam.Angels prostrated but he remained in standing still.So the cause of standing still while angels prostrated(fell down )is caused by Satan and the effect became disobedience,so that's why I am in some kind of believe in free causation governed by our free will but in some limited or supervised by Allah's will.

[@magiadem4329]

A great scholar and philosopher of all the time 👍

[@Hundura-k3y]

This advance philosophy. Also called 5-D philosophy

[@briantrought567]

I'd much prefer to have a human talking and discussing here. The material is good, but the AI generated text and images distract from the fundamental ideas; what does it mean to be human? And what is our relationship with the divine?

[@Horizonsofthemind3437]

Alhamdulilah I am a Muslim. As for artificial intelligence, I don't have the ability to write text. I can't write text, so it is true that I get support from artificial intelligence in writing text. But I do not trust what the AI writes, so I read the text and examine it to the finest detail and then publish it. I research different sources and verify the accuracy of the information. Thank you for your comment.

[@antoni5577]

@@Horizonsofthemind3437 No one asked if you’re a Muslim btw

[@miriamyattassaye1806]

Asalamu alakum. At 5:28 the use of the word "um" might be disrupting the flow of . It's best left out of public speaking for humans but it sounds off when it's done by AI. I'm only commenting because I love this subject and I love the development of AI for the sake of Allah (SWA).

[@Horizonsofthemind3437]

@@miriamyattassaye1806 Alaikum Salaam. Thank you for the warning. I will be more careful from now on.

[@bayreuth79]

You cannot prove that causality is an illusion (especially as you have to admit at least one causal agent, i e, God) or that it’s not an illusion. It seems to me that both propositions are reasonable. However, I suspect that Aristotle is closer to the truth; it makes more sense intuitively.

[@Horizonsofthemind3437]

I respect your view, but as Muslims we believe that the universe has a beginning and an end, and that every event that happens happens with God's knowledge. Of course, when you write like this, the question comes to mind that Ibn Sina and Farabi were not Muslims. They were Muslims, but they were wrong in their thinking. They emphasized reason and logic while Ghazali emphasized divine revelation.

[@bayreuth79]

@@Horizonsofthemind3437 The fact that everything that happens does so with God's knowledge does not mean that God is the only casual agent. It is not clear and unambiguous in the Qur'an that causality is an illusion; indeed, the Shi'a do believe in secondary causes. And the Mutazilites also. Ghazali wished to emphasize God's power, to his goodness.

[@AbbaJifarTube]

No, Aristotelian causality is closer to atheism which is philosophized as natural causation which may exclude God or limit God like God is a necessary agent but he is not knowing the part in the universe .Algazali view is an Islamic view even supported by the Quran but it's not a 100% perfect Quranic view . Quranic views always lie in the middle.

[@bayreuth79]

@@AbbaJifarTube God cannot create real causes? He can't create fire that really burns?

[@mooripo]

Beautiful, well god created all those nature rules of physics and are let free as by his law, but when he wills it, he modifies those laws (miracles) without his direct intervention things go as he intended by his laws.

[@Sarah-w1i8c]

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[@Horizonsofthemind3437]

I don't know anything about this.

[@hichembjaoui-h85]

i did enjoy

[@Horizonsofthemind3437]

I'm glad you enjoyed it.:))