Al-Ghazali vs Ibn Taymiyyah: on free will and determinism

[@mkm5761]

Just started the video and i can already tell it's gonna be awesome SubhanAllah I've always been excited about this topic BaarakAllahu Feek ya Ustaadh

[@AbdulshakurHassenO]

Masha Allah , it's gonna be an interesting topic. I have been waiting for this kind of stuff.

[@petritkola]

@@AbdulshakurHassenO if you want more in depth you can also read it at my blog posted in the description. Inshallah more videos coming

[@عبدالله-ن6ه2ص]

Ibn Taymiyyah is one of the most important Muslim scholars, and his books are references for Muslim scholars in criticizing philosophy, Christianity, Shiism, Sufism, and in legal politics, etc. But unfortunately, now we see orientalists interested in writing books about Ibn Taymiyyah, while Sunni Muslims leave non-Muslims to speak and discuss the ideas of our great scholars. Therefore, non-Arab Muslims will only find books by orientalists full of errors in order to understand the books of Sunni scholars.

[@ampagetech2624]

Ibn taimiyya is just a sophist whose writings are very boring long winding jumble with very little coherence - The man's ability has been exagerated by the wahhabis and salafis who have very few illustrious scholars hence their exageration of ibn taimiyya. Even in his time he was not the best scholar of hadith - Ibn daqiq al eid was the best faqih of hadith while mizzi was the most learned in rijal. Ibn taimiyya was the best in memorisation of hadith.. He had many untenable ideas like the hawadis la awwala laha - eternal no biginning contingency , the fana of the fire etc. He beleived Allah is up in the sky sitting on a throne with a weight - complete tajsim

[@patop6419]

​@@ampagetech2624sufi clown, please stop😅

[@idir1x]

@@ampagetech2624stop copy pasting we know you’re mad

[@averroesa895]

Allah Barak Fikum. Great video, treating a difficult subject with care and clarity.

[@shekishral6570]

Unfortunately, it became clear from the start that your opinion is biased. 0:40 by declaring that the Ibn Taymiyn view is more in line with the Sunnah and Quran, sorry to say but that is a typical selefy/Wahabi mindset ( who see Ibn Taymiyah as the single most important Scholer of Islam. far away from an independent scholarly study ), thinking that the Sunnah and Quran is something else and what schoolers are saying is something else is wrong because you are not comparing sunnah and Quran but rather you are comparing what you think what sunnah and Quran is with another opinion about the sunnah and Quran. We see this way of dealing with Islamic issues overall in the selfie approach regarding Islamic teachings. Don't forget most of the Islamic Scholars were and are Eshari/Maturidi which means what those schools of Akidah are saying is probably more what Sunnah and the Quran are saying. Allahu Alem

[@petritkola]

@@shekishral6570 go to the end of the video where I show why I believe ibn taymiyyahs view is more in line. I show a clear contradiction with the Ashari view with a sahih Hadith of the prophet. Instead of just attacking watch the video and disprove what I say. Just skip close to the end of the section titled Hadith or whayever Secondly it's not true most of the ummah are ashari

[@africandawahrevival]

20:58 ".. whoever follows God...", who determines who follows the guidance, God or man? You are focusing on ability, whereas the issue of decree is more relevant, God decreed the guidance and those who will follow or reject, that's the difficult part, which the Asharis explain better.

[@Nazam44]

What makes a Hadith authentic isn’t whether it’s found in Bukhari but its chain and texts. Even Ibn Taymiyyah rejected one or two Hadiths found in Bukhari.

[@petritkola]

@@Nazam44 I didn’t say because it’s in bukhari it’s sahih. I said it’s hard to prove it’s daeef. This Hadith I haven’t personally found someone say it’s weak

[@Klotz237]

May Allah bless Shaykh ul Islam ibn taymiyyah

[@القارئإبراهيمبنعبدالقادر]

اللهم آمين

[@nameless-yd6ko]

Which scholar's view on predestination is more inline with the Quran and Sunnah? ~~~ So, you are not seeking Truth, only what aligns with your favorite book? The "free-will/choice' vs 'determinism' argument is already a fallacy; a false dilemma. That they are already a fallacy, it shouldn't be shocking that there is a superior theory. The quote from Feynman at the end is the death knell of both 'free-will' and 'determinism' and their bastard children 'compatabilism and un-compatabilism! But first, a definition; "Free-will/Choice"; an egoically satisfying theory as to the meaning of a feeling/thought (ego). Get it? Whether the concept of 'free-will/choice' is anything more than an egoic delusion seems to be simply answered by 'deconstruction'. The punch line is that All is One! The Enlightened/Saved, Mystic know this experientially. Quantum physics certainly supports this. So, starting from this point, One single Universe, in perfect balance... One Truth perceived by Consciousness through infinite unique Perspectives (Souls), us. Not anything is actually moving, time is the theory to 'splain the illusion of motion, and now there are concepts of a 'self' distinct from Self with the ability to alter the entire Universe to, most often, make their own little life a bit more comfortable. After all, if you could actually 'change' anything, in the great One, you'd have to also 'change' everything! Talk about an ego trip, a God complex, no wonder people believe in 'free-will/choice'. Not to mention that everyone has the Godlike ability to alter the Universe for a Big Mac! Is this not the very definition of 'chaos'? The concept/belief does have quite the twitching support group, though. I suspect that the notion of free-will/choice is just another acquired belief virus. The symptoms of the defenders supports that theory. So, deconstructing Truth, 'free-will/choice' is impossible, other than as a notion/belief/delusion. Every moment of existence exists Now! "The Laws of Nature are not rules controlling the metamorphosis of what is, into what will be. They are descriptions of patterns that exist, all at once... " - Genius; the Life and Science of Richard Feynman All 'eternity' at once; Here! Now!!

[@africandawahrevival]

16:29 Bro, Ibn Taymiyah believed in infinite regress of causes tho, everything material is made from an already existing matter, he did this to justify his theory of infinite past.

[@petritkola]

@@africandawahrevival and? Is that contradictory?

[@africandawahrevival]

@@petritkola That's beside the point, I thought you were making an argument by refering to the impossibility of an infinite regress (your gun analogy), but Ibn Taymiyah believed in creatio ex creation and an infinite past.

[@petritkola]

@@africandawahrevival an infinite past of created things and infinite past of CAUSES are different. Ibn taymiyyah believes the later is contradictory but the former not to be. An infinite set of caused things are different and an Infinite set of causes is what is contradictory. That's why the sniper analogy is different than, say, an infinite set of rocks or whayever. You get me?

[@africandawahrevival]

​@@petritkolaI know y'all believe that, we disagree with such distinction, please respond to my other comments which is more relevant to the topic.

[@petritkola]

@@africandawahrevival which comment?

[@AArrad]

Salam Alaykum brother, are the painted faces in the thumbnail considered permissible to use? I thought drawing faces was haram, does that ruling differ if it’s digital/AI?

[@DAWAHTIME1]

Exactly

[@batzorigvaanchig6358]

An interesting video and I appreciate your efforts to present a balanced view of both positions. I feel like the video was pretty fair until you came to verse 7:57 where I feel as though, while you expounded the Athari view, the verse as it is translated into English here, does not make apparent any contradiction to the Ashari view. Saying that Aharis pointing to this verse would give Jahmiyyahs ammunition also did not make sense to me as an argument as it doesn't matter if a broken clock is write twice a day, saying the time when the time happens to align with the broken clockface doesn't mean the time is wrong? The hadith that was brought forward also would not have implications for Asharis unless (as far as I know/have written down), it is mutawattir and only indicates a single meaning. Allah knows best and I'm not someone with any knowledge. Still, I think the first half of the video wise quite good and informative on the ibn taymiyyan view. Nice job.

[@petritkola]

@@batzorigvaanchig6358 for the ayat I said that it can go both ways but leans more towards athari than ashari As for the Hadith, I showed that if we take the Ashari view, and rain has no intrinsic property in it of itself and only Allah makes vegetation grow, then Allah's knowledge as per analogy of the Hadith has no intrinsic property thus it cannot cause us to believe in his knowlege. The Hadith is sahih no one can dispute that I appreciate the comment maybe I did not clarify as well. But you can read the blog and scroll towards the Hadith portion to see more of it maybe. But I think if, as per ashari view, rain has no property to cause vegetation, and the prophet likened Allah's knowledge to rain, then taking the Ashari view, Allah's knowledge has no intrinsic property at all. Therefore we only believe in Allah if at the same time information came to us Allah made us believe. You get me?

[@africandawahrevival]

34:14 The hadith you quoted is not contradictory to the Ashari position at all, btw there are many other hadith and scripture that shows clear determinism, this was even acknowledged in Mohammad Hijabs article where i first encountered the hadith you quoted. Now, in the analogy, we could say that the prophet pbuh was using the normative view of things to explain his point, I hope you are aware that Occasionalism doesn't eliminate causes/powers, as long as it is mediated and from POV of creatures, we use compatibilism.

[@petritkola]

Ghazali (the position I was critiquing) very much says that there are no causes in this world. Once again fire does not cause cotton to burn, it just so happens that fire and cotton are put together and Allah makes it so they burn but NOT BECAUSE fire burns If we go back to the Hadith, and rain has no causing effect at all (I.e. it just so happens rain hits the earth and vegetation grows at the same time) then the analogy to Allah's knowledge that knowledge is presented to us at the same time we accept it or reject it. But NOT BECAUSE of the knowledge itself. You get me?

[@africandawahrevival]

@@petritkola 1. What Ghazali was saying is that there is no intrinsic necessity for fire to burn, every burning is by God's will, to say other wise is the wrong position, because, we could even argue that if God is the one who decided the nature of fire and even for it to burn God still mediates the burning (given Providence), that's all we need to prove occasionalism. There is however normative cause, from the POV of creatures/man, that where compatibilism comes in, that's why I think you should study compatibilism as a Theory in itself first to fully grasp it's utility. 2. Like I said, we can explain the analogy by making a distinction between God's POV and creatures POV, the prophet pbuh was using an analogy from creatures POV, which is justified (given compatibilism), but the deeper question is, who made one ground hard and the other not? God, by decree. The answer to this question will determine if your position might actually be Mu'tazili, similar to my other comment about, who decides who accept guidance or not?

[@petritkola]

@@africandawahrevival we have to first discuss whether ghazali (the position I argued against) believed things have intrinstic properties or not. Ghazali himself does not believe anything in this world has intrinsic properties to cause anything. As with the first and with the story of Ibrahim ghazali says explicitly that fire does not cause anybring to burn. It has no intrinsic property of burning. It is only Allah and allah does not use secondary means to cause things. Do you agree that this is what ghazali believes?

[@africandawahrevival]

@@petritkola Fire not having intrinsic property of burning is only to show that there is no necessity of fire burning anything save God's will, it doesn't mean that fire doesn't burn, in fact it does, just like the Ashari position on power, la hawla wala quwatta illa billah, God is the source of any power amongst creatures, but also God is the one who decides if a particular power is effective or not, just like their position on guidance too, God sends guidance, but none can come to guidance save by God's grace/will, etc. We have power and cause things to happen from human POV, and that is sufficient for responsibility according to compatibilism. Btw, there are some Ibn Taymiyah academics who hold that at the end of the day, from some of his other writings, his position is not actually different from the Asharis, read also, Mohammed Hijabs article on sapience about determinism.

[@petritkola]

@@africandawahrevival in my video I've brought up ghazali saying fire does not have intrinstic priorities. But it's only from Allah. the connection between what is habitually believed to be a cause and what is habitually believed to be an effect is not necessary their connection is due to the prior decree of God In terms of fire and cotton being burnt: These two things are happening at the same time but not that one is the cause of the other (Ghazali, 171). These are quotes. He says kasb is the solution to strict determinism because we can choose our actions but our actions do not cause anything to occur (ghazalli says this) Can you show me a quote in which he says differently?

[@TheQuran732-]

Part 1: Ibn taymiyyah ra the scholar of ahlul sunnah wal jammah and destroyer of the jahmiyyah and neo jahmi asharis. Here are some scholars of various creed praising him (for the jahil ashari who has no idea their own imams praised ibn taymiyyah): al-Haafiz Jalaal al-Deen al-Suyuti (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: "Ibn Taymiyah, the Shaykh, the imam, the ‘allaamah (great scholar), the hafiz, the critic, the faqeeh, the mujtahid, the brilliant mufassir, the Shaykh of Islam, the leader of ascetics, the unrivalled in our time, Taqiy al-Deen Abu’l-Abbaas Ahmad al-Mufti Shihaab al-Deen ‘Abd al-Haleem, the son of the imam and mujtahid Shaykh al-Islam Majd al-Deen ‘Abd al-Salaam ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Abi’l-Qaasim al-Haraani. One of the prominent figures, he was born in Rabee’ al-Awwal 661 AH, and he learned from Ibn Abi’l-Yasar, Ibn ‘Abd al-Daa’im, and some others. He took an interest in hadeeth, and narrated and selected (sound ahaadeeth); he excelled in the study of narrators’ biographies, defects in ahaadeeth, fiqh, the sciences of Islam, ‘ilm al-kalaam and other fields. He was a man of vast learning, one of the few brilliant scholars, ascetics and unique individuals. He wrote three hundred books, and he was tested and persecuted many times. He died in the latter part of Dhu’l-Qa’dah 628 AH." Tabaqaat al-Huffaaz (p. 516, 517. Shah waliullah dehlawi: Shah waliullah as dehlawi praised ibn taymiyyah and called him imam and defender of ahlul sunnah. And said those who criticised him didnt have much knowledge (calling them jahil). Ad dehlawi also wrote Risālah fī Manāqib Ibn Taymiyyah wa 'l-Difā' 'anhu (Epistle on the Virtues of Ibn Taymiyyah and in His Defence): "Our assessment of Ibn Taimiyya after full investigation is that he was a scholar of the ‘Book of God’ and had full command over its etymological and juristic implications. He remembered by heart the traditions of the Prophet and accounts of elders (salaf) and understood well their etymological and juristic purpose and meaning. He was a recognized scholar of syntax (nahw) and semantics (lughat). He was an authority on the Hanbalite jurisprudence and its principles and branches. He excelled in intelligence and brilliance. He argued in defence of ahl al-Sunnah with great eloquence and force. No innovation or irreligious act is reported about him. Only certain matters on which he was harassed by his contemporaries have been reported to us. But there is not a single matter on which he is without his defence based on the Qur’an and the Sunnah. So it is difficult to find a man in the whole world who possesses the qualities of Ibn Taymiyya. No one can come anywhere near him in the force of his speech and writing. People who harassed him [and got him thrown in prison] did not possess even one-tenth of his scholarly excellence … In this matter the differences of the ‘ulama’ resemble the differences of the Companions of the Prophet and it is necessary to abstain from making any comments on such matters." (Maktubat-i Shah Wali Allah-shah waliullah dehlawi) Hafidh ibn hajar asqalani said: "Our shaykh, our chief and imām in that which is between us and Allāh, the Exalted, the shaykh of verification, the one traversing [the way] of the one whom he followed, the one of great many virtues, and powerful, compelling evidences which all of the nations have affirmed that their concerns in trying to enumerate them all are decifient, and may Allāh delight us by his magnificent sciences and benefit us in this world and the hereafter and he is the shaykh, the rabbānī scholar, the ocean-like sage, the pole of light, imām of the scholars, the blessing of the ummah, the signpost of the scholars, inheritors of the prophets, the last of the mujtahidīn, the unique ones amongst the scholars, the shaykh of Islām, the proof of the notables, the example for the creation, the evidence for the students, the subduer of the innovators, the sword of the debators, the ocean of sciences, the beneficial treasure, the explainer of the Qurʾān, and amazing prodigy of the era, the unique of the age, and verily, Taqī al-Dīn is the imām of the Muslims, the proof of Allāh over the creation, associated with the righteous, resembling those who have passed, the muftī of the various factions, the aider of the truth, the signpost of guidance, the support for the Ḥuffādh, the knight of meanings and words, the pillar of the Sharīʿah, possessor of marvellous sciences, ABŪ AL-ʿABBĀS IBN TAYMIYYAH (al-Durar al-Kāminah- ibn hajar asqalani) Ibn hajar asqalani also said: "Jamal al Din al Sarmari said in “Imaaliya” that: And from the amazing matters which happened for the good of the people of our time, that when Ibn Taymiyah would come across a book and look over it once only, After which the book would be inscribed in his mind. He would be able to narrate it thereafter in his books with its precise words and meanings. [ad-Durar al Kaaminah 1/49] As Subki praised ibn taymiyyah: "al-Dhahabī wrote to al-Subkī, rebuking him for his speech against Ibn Taymiyyah, and he [al-Subkī] replied to him and from his response was: "As for the saying of my teacher [al-Dhahabī] regarding the Shaykh, then I am convinced of his great rank, his ocean-like exuberance, the vastness of his knowledge of the legislative and intellectual sciences, his excessive intelligence and ijtihād and his reaching [a level] in all of that which surpasses description. I have always held this opinion. His status in my eyes is greater and loftier than that, alongside what Allāh gathered for him of asceticism, piety, religiosity, his aiding of the truth and remaining firm upon it for the sake of Allāh alone, his traversing the ways of the Salaf and his great dependence upon all of that, and the strangeness of his likes in this time, rather, since many times [that have passed by]." (al-Durar al-Kāminah) as-Subki said, "By Allah no one hates lbn Taymiyyah except for an ignoramus or the possessor of desires which have diverted him from the truth after he has come to know it." ('Radd al-Wafir (p. 95)] Even Taqi Al Din As Subki, an Ash'ari and a harsh critic of Ibn Taymiyyah rh, praised shaykh al islam ibn taymiyyah: "As for what you say with regard to Ash-Shaykh Taqi ad-Din Ibn Taymiyyah, then I am convinced of the great scope, the ocean-like fullness, and vastness of his knowledge of the transmitted and intellectual sciences, his extreme intelligence, his ijtihad and his attainments in that which surpass description. And I have always held to this opinion. Personally, his status in my eyes is greater and more esteemed, for the asceticism, piety, religiosity, his helping the truth and standing firm on it for the sake of Allah alone, his adherence to the path of the salaf and his abundant taking from it, and his strangeness in this time, nay any time.' (Dhayl Tabaqat al-Hanabilah (2/392) of lbn Rajab al-Hanbali.) Shaykh Safi al-din al Hanafi the Matureedi praised ibn taymiyyah: "This is clear that He (Ibn Taymiyah) reached the level of Ijtihaad, A group of scholars mentioned this. Among them are Abu Abdullah ad-Dahabee, Hafidh Ibn Hajar (al asqalani) and Hafidh as-Suyuti in Tabqaat al Huffaadh. He was not alone in any of his fatwa, even though he disagreed with four Imams in Masaail but those were in agreement of some companions or Tabiyeen." [al Qawl al Jalli fe Tarjuma Shaykh Taqi al Din Ibn Taymiyah al Hanbali page 6, Ghayat al Amani 1/484] Kamal ud din bin Zamalkani said: “Shaykh, the Imaam, the Unique, the Haafidh, the Mujtahid, the Ascetic, the Worshipper, the Example, the Imaam of the Imaams, the example for the Nation, the sign of the scholars, the inheritor of the Prophets, the Last of the Mujtahids, unique scholar of the Religion, the Blessing for Islaam, the Proof of the Scholars (A`laam), the proof of the Mutakallimeen, the effacer of the innovators, the Reviver of the Sunnah. The one by whom Allaah has greatly favoured us with, and established the proof with against His enemies. Taqi ud din Abul Abbas Ahmad bin Abdul Haleem bin Abdul-salam Ibn Taymiyyah [ar-Risalatul Zakiyah fe Thana al Aima al Ibn Taymiyyah page 37, al-Radd al Wafir Ibn Nasir ud din Damishqi 1/57, Ashbaah wa an-Nadhair an-Nahwiyyah (3/681)] The Qadhi of Qadhis lbn al-Huriri said: "If lbn Taymiyyah was not Shaykh al-lslam than who is?" [Hayat Shaykh u-Islam (p. 26)]

[@TheQuran732-]

Part 2 (continuation) : Ibn kathir praising ibn taymiyyah: Sharf ud din al Maqdasi, The Shaykh, The Imam, The Khateeb, The teacher, The Mufti Sharf ud din Abul Abbas Ahmad bin Shaykh Kamal ud din Ahmad bin Na`mah bin Ahmad bin Jafar bin Husayn bin Hammad al Maqdasi ash-Shafiee. He was born in 622 h and heard a lot (of hadeeth), he wrote good and useful books. He was deputy of the Judge, teacher and Khateeb in Damascus, He was a teacher as well as Khateeb in al Ghazaliyah and Dar al hadeeth al Nuriyah. At a time he taught in ash-Shamiyah al Baraniyah. He gave Ijazah of giving fatawa to a group of virtuous people, among them are Shaykh the Imam the Allamah Shaykh ul Islam Abul Abbas bin Taymiyyah, He was proud and happy with it and said: I have given the Ijazah to Ibn Taymiyyah to give fatwa who has mastered many of the vast disciplines of the Islamic sciences. [al Bidaya wal Nihaya 13/396] Ibn kathir also said: "In Damascus, a lot of tension arose due to the absence of the vice Head of State [who was in Egypt at the time]. The [Ash’ari] judge in Damascus ordered for some disciples of Ibn Taymiyyah to be punished IIn the same period, it so happened that al-Mizzi read a chapter refuting the Jahmiyyah from al-Bukhari’s Khalq Af’aal al-Ibaad under the Nasr Dome [in the Umayyad Mosque]… Some [Ash’ari] jurists who were present there became angry and complained to the Shafi’i [Ash’ari] judge, Ibn Sasraa who was an enemy of his. Al-Mizzi was therefore jailed. News reached Ibn Taymiyyah and he was saddened. He went to jail and had him taken out. He then went to the palace and found the judge there. They argued over al-Mizzi, so Ibn Sasraa took an oath that he would return al-Mizzi to jail or else he would step down as judge. [News reached Egypt], and the deputy Head of State had him re-imprisoned to keep the [Ash’ari] judge happy, but had al-Mizzi jailed nearby him in the city of Cusae [Asyut, Egypt]. Then the Deputy Head released him.When the Deputy Head returned, Ibn Taymiyyah told him what had happened to him and his disciples in his absence. The Deputy Head was deeply saddened and announced in Damascus that nobody should debate in theology, and whoever does so would have his wealth seized, his blood shed and his house and shop razed to the ground. The situation therefore cooled down…” [al Bidaya wal Nihaya 14/52-53, Ibn Hajar asqalani also mentioned in ad-Durar al Kamina.] Ibn kathir also said: "When friday came, As usual Shaykh Taqi ud din did Tafsir of “And indeed, you are of a great moral character” in Jamia (Amawi), Then on Saturday He met Qadhi Imam ud din and other scholars and they argued about Al Hamawiyah and they talked about many issues. He replied and silenced them after a long discussion. Then Shaykh Taqi ud din returned and everything was peaceful. Qadhi Imam ud din had good belief and had good intentions. [Al Bidaya wal Nihaya 14/17] "Shaykh Taqi ud din spoke with him firm (king of taatar-when he marched towards Damishq) and harsh manner which had great interests and benefits for the Muslims Wal Hamdulillah" [Al Bidaya wal Nihaya 14/20] "Ahmad bin Ibraheem bin Abdul Ghani al Sarawji al Hanafi, The commentator of “Al Hidayah”… He objected to Shaykh Taqi ud din Ibn Taymiyyah on Ilm al Kalaam in which he made people laugh at him. Shaykh Taqi ud din wrote many volumes in his Refutation and invalidated his evidences" [Al Bidaya wal Nihaya 14/77] When people presented a letter attributed to Prophet peace be upon him which states that Jiziya has been stopped from Jews then Ibn Kathir mentioned: "Shaykh ul Islam Ibn Taymiyyah argued and cleared their mistake and lie and that the letter is false. They accepted that the Jiziya should be given." [Al Bidaya wal Nihaya 14/33] Ibn Taymiyyah forgave all the people who did conspiracy against him: Sultan became angry with those judges who plotted against Ibn Taymiyyah and asked him to write a fatwa of killing these “judges”. But Shaykh never did that → Ibn Kathir mentioned: "Shaykh understood the meaning of Sultan`s anger, then he started to venerate the Judges and Scholars and rejected that he would go against them, and told him that if you kill them than, none of the same caliber could then be found in your country. Sultan said these are the people who harmed you and tried to kill you many times. Shaykh repliedAs for what they have done to me, and my right to extract a punishment, I forgive them, and they are free and whoever Harmed Allah and his Rasool than Allah will take his revenge. I will not take revenge for myself" [Al Bidaya wal Nihaya 14/71] Qadhi of al Maalakiyah Ibn Makhloof said “We have never seen the likes of Ibn Taymiyyah, We plotted against him and tried to take control over him but he took control over us. He argued (with Sultan) regarding us [Al Bidaya wal Nihaya 14/72] "Ibn taymiyyah forgave people who vonspired against him: The Jurists started to apologize regarding whatever they said bad against him." [al Bidaya wal Nihaya 4/72] Ibn kathir also wrote: Then they (Ibn Taymiyyah and Kamal ud din bin Zamalkani) engaged in a debate and people commended the merits of Shaykh Kamaal Al-Deen ibn Az-Zamalkaani, his wittiness, and careful researching as he debated Ibn Taymiyyah and talked with him. Finally, he accepted Al-‘Aqeedah (Al-Waasitiyyah) and Ibn Taymiyyah went home honored and revered.” [Al Bidaya wal Nihaya 14/52] Ibn Rajab mentioned that after the three majalis on the Aqeedah of Ibn Taymiyyah: وقع الإتفاق بعد ذلك على أن هذه عقيدة سنية سلفية They (all the scholars present in the majlis) agreed that this is the SUNNI and SALAFI Aqeedah. [dhaylh Tabqaat al Hanabilah of Ibn Rajab hanbalee 4/396] Ibn Abdul Hadi said regarding this debate: وقد أظهر الله من قيام الحجة ما أعز به أهل السنة وانصرف الشيخ تقي الدين إلى منزله Allah gave victory and honored Ahlus sunnah through the evidences, and Shaykh Taqi ud din departed to his home. [al Uqud ad-durriyah, Ghayat al Eemani 2/232] Ibn kathir further states: "His knowledge and virtues were praised by the scholars of his time like Qadhi al Khoobi, Ibn Daqeeq (al eid), Ibn an-Nahaas, Qadhi of the hanafis chief justice of Egypt, Ibn al Hareeri, and Ibn al Zamalkani and others. I saw in the writings of Ibn Zamalkani that he said: He (Ibn Taymiyyah) had the abilities of Ijtihaad, He was given an upper hand in writing good books, tarteeb, taqeem and explanation. and the following poetry was written on his book: What do they say in his praise* his attributes are many he is dominant evidence of Allah. He is marvel in this age, He is clear sign of the creation* His lights Superseded the dawn [al Bidaya wal Nihaya 14/159-160] Ibn rajab al hanbali said about ibn al zamalkani praising ibn taymiyyah after his debate with him (he accepted the view of ibn taymiyyah): "It has reached me from authentic way from Ibn al Zamalkani that he was asked regarding Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah and he said “one who had more memorized than him has not been seen in the last five hundred or four hundred years as the narrator is not sure but better is five hundred years”. [Dhayl Tabqaat al Hanabilah 1/340, Ibn Nasir ud din quoted in Radd al Waafir pafe 56, ar-Risalatul Zakiyah fe Thana al Aima al Ibn Taymiyyah page 37] Imam ad dahabi praises ibn taymiyyah: "In 698 h He wrote “al hamawiyyah” on Sifaat. His opponents gathered and went to him, they had back of a Hanafi Judge. They declared that fatawas should not be taken from him. But a group stood for his (Ibn Taymiyah) victory and Allah saved him. In 705 h the order came from Egypt that his aqeeda should be investigated. The Deputy of Damascus al Afram called the Judges and the Scholars for this issue…. THEN THEY AGREED THAT HIS AQEEDAH IS POWERFUL, SALAFI (i.e. the aqeedah of righteous predecessors). [al Uqud ad-Durriyah 1/211-212. al Kuwakib ad-Durriyah 112, Ghayat al Amani 2/229] Imam Mur’ee bin Yusaf al Hanbalee quoted from Ilm ud din Bazzarli that He said: "Qadhi (Imam ud din ash-Shafiee) said (When Ibn Taymiyah read his book al Hamawiyyah): whoever oppose him (Ibn Taymiyyah) or say things against him, I will see him by myself. His (Imam ud din’s) brother Jalal al-din said: whoever oppose or say things against the shaykh, we will punish him. People were waiting to listen good news about shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah and he reached his home in crowd of people. But his opponents accused him with those things which a man who have intellect will feel shy to mention them… after this incident the righteous people saw the best outcome of it. If we write about that it will make a volume." [al Qawl al Jalli fi Tarjuma Shaykh al Islam Ibn Taymiyah page 357-358, also quoted by Shukri al Alusi from his book in Ghayat al Amani 2/231] Abu hafs al bazzar said about ibn taymiyyah: "He would send durood and salam on the Prophet peace be upon him whenever he would mention him. NO BY ALLAH I HAVE NOT SEEN anyone who did Tazeem of Messenger of Allah peace be upon him more then him, neither anyone who was more eager to follow the Prophet peace be upon him. " [Munaqib Ibn Taymiyah by al Bazzar page 28] So to the neo ashari jahmi who ridicules Shaykh al islam ibn taymiyyah with no knowledge. Are u claiming u are more knowledgeable than ur scholars who praised him and deemed him a scholar of Ahlul Sunnah? Learn to stay in your lane before bad mouthing an ocean on knowledge, which ur own ashari scholars praised greatly like as subki and as suyuti.

[@elcapodeicapi80]

Barakallahu feek. Wasn't this already uploaded previously? Or is this a new video?

[@petritkola]

@@elcapodeicapi80 the last one I uploaded was much shorter and didn't critique ghazalli's view. This video is more detailed and I present arguments against the views of the Ashari on this matter. If you saw the last video then this video has a lot more in it If you want you can see the essay I wrote too and subscribe to my blog down in the description

[@elcapodeicapi80]

@@petritkola Ah Jazakallahu khayran. Yes will give it a look Insha Allah. Its a real interesting topic and subhanallah requires alot of insight in it.

[@dyan_sy]

Is trying to get in the islamic uni of Madinah at 20 late, because you said we have a better chance at 17 and young like that, is 20 young and how old are the students in the 1 first of the 2 years of learning arabic on avarage?

[@MichiganTroopers123]

You can get in don’t stress, but avoid the politics

[@MdjsjJdndndn]

Brother, kindly change the thumbnail, because it may seem to some people that "its okay to use such images" or that you promote such images/paintings of living beings even though it may not be your intention. BarakAllahu feek.

[@inordinateseptet885]

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته Bro will you be making a video ok ibn taymia and the possibility of non vicious infinite regression? I did had a book on it which said that non vicious infinite regression is possible but its hard to understand.

[@Critical_Truth]

Jazakallah Khayran

[@jacobwilkes8122]

Flaw in your logic: Allah swt sends the clouds & then causes it to rain. If there were secondary causality; then the cloud would have the intrisic value of producing rain. This ayat directly refers Allah causing things to happen twice as often as the part that you interpret as meaning that Allah is utilizing 2ndary causality. These "intrisic values" that atharis are contending are borderline shirk. Nothing has any intrisic value but Allah swt himself. He is the sustainer. If creation had intrisic values; then they would not need Allah to sustain them. This view insinuates that if Allah were to blink out of existence; then the creation would continue on just fine without Allah. That is obviously blasphemy.

[@rationalbelief4451]

Seems like ibn taymiyyah's view aligns with what avveroes was arguing for. Am i right??

[@tafreekladh]

31:20 is this what to present against the ash'aris , that they help fueling the jahmi views, aren't we trying to reach the haqq, and shouldn't that be the goal in our mind, rather than just trying to refute others, I'm sorry but that's a very childish approach

[@petritkola]

@@tafreekladh so if someone has an opinion in Islam that is against the haqq we shouldn't discuss it 🤔

[@tafreekladh]

what you fail to understand is that , the ash'ari view also explains how we humans perceive things as if they have cause and effect and that is through "aadat-ullah , which is the habit of allah and that explains everything you presented in defence of taymiyyan view"

[@tafreekladh]

And this explains the superficial understanding of the modern day salafis, they can't comprehend the ideas they try to refute.

[@petritkola]

@@tafreekladh this still doesn't help the faultiness in the Ashari explanation with the Hadith I presented

[@arianitteamaxess674]

if you use ibn taymiyyah, just mention his name, you expose yourself as a wahabi. and wahabism isn't even considered part of ahlul bayt, nor even as sunni. I don't know how someone can take that guy serious when he made allah look like a christian god. he did some good work ,but so did trump, and so did other christian "saints"

[@petritkola]

@@arianitteamaxess674 you have no idea what your talking about

[@arianitteamaxess674]

@@petritkola hahah po thu a.. ibn taymiyah directly contradicts the quran (surah ihklas). didn't ibn taymiyah say that everything in the quran is literal and there is nothing figurative? didn't he say that allah has hands and legs like human? do you want to deny those facts? it is frightening that you spend most of your time defending someone who you have no religious and moral obligation to

[@petritkola]

@@arianitteamaxess674 Po Thu? Please give me one source where ibn taymiyyah says that Allah had hands like a human. Mos fut kot

[@arianitteamaxess674]

@@petritkola you are his student, you are the one putting his words over the quran and the prophet. so, you look up and don't act as you don't know. we both know what you are hiding and that you are acting ignorant on this topic. his teaching that allah has physical body parts was the reason why even his own studen, ibn kathir, refutes him. and if you really don't know, then inform yourself better before you talk about such things and put a video on youtube. otherwise you will be the cause of leading people astray

[@arianitteamaxess674]

@@petritkola and the source that you asked is ibn taymiya's work. just to answer your question and not leave place for "you are avoiding my question"

[@muslim_rks]

wow just wow

[@Rian-zw3xn]

Nice pfpic

[@muslim_rks]

@@Rian-zw3xn U too

[@DAWAHTIME1]

Would have been better to avoid pictures depicting them. Not from Islam.

[@oeshkoer]

I found some information that Ibn Taymiyyah said that Allaah's knowledge does not encompass the the afterlife and the infinite. I believe his argumentation is since the afterlife will never end the actions and events will go on forever, hence knowledge cannot encompass it as completed as the events and actions will go on forever and never come to completion. What do you think about this?

[@petritkola]

@@oeshkoer show me where he said this because I have never heard that he said this Furthermore on your other comments on infinite regress of the past, I don't see a contradiction tbh

[@oeshkoer]

@@petritkola How you mean no contradiction? To give you a example, let say Allaah was always creating a day one after another, then it would mean to reach the current day then a infinite days must have created and completed to reach the current which is illogical as infinite never gets completed. So to reach the current day only a finite days in the past could have been created that is it must have a 1st creation of a day. Hope you understand it.

[@oeshkoer]

@@petritkola And beside that how in the world can Ibn Taymiyyah believe in the generic eternality of the universe [ qidam al-alam al-naw’i] and deny the eternality of a particular thing of the universe [qidam al-ahad]? This is surely a binding implication upon him, for how can the world be generically eternal without there being at least one thing [that makes up that whole] that is eternal ?

[@petritkola]

@@oeshkoer ok is jannah forever? Like does jannah have an "end"? No? If jannah has no end, and there's a Hadith that the Prophet said every Friday people will see Allah, how can we get to Friday if jannah is forever and we can't move in time due to there being an infinite set (based on your logic)

[@oeshkoer]

@@petritkola Are you serious man? In jannah there will be after every 6 days always a Friday and having Fridays will go on forever.

[@Abrother-jh2ic]

My brother Petrit Allahuma Barik, the Albanian who can handle spicy chicken with rice (From Pepe's)

[@UrDreamNet]

Thought provoking video; however, using there arguments without knowing the context and then squeezing them into modern philosophical views, water downs their content. I’ll just call it how it’s shown. This is another attempt to attack the ashari community. Calling them Jahmias, Ghazalians, and even kufr. The idea that Ghazali was this one dimensional is inaccurate of his position on this topic. You cannot show where Ghazali held this position like it was a requirement to be Muslim. This was like the Kansas City Chiefs with paid off refs 😂. I see why Salafis don’t do open panel debates. You need to read more on Ghazali. He was well rounded and not and subscribed to one terminology. Can you show the chain of that Hadith.

[@petritkola]

@@UrDreamNet can you show me in the video where I in this one context got ibn taymiyyah wrong? You are making a broad statement but not showing where I didn’t present him properly. Because I think in this one very specific matter I did it justice.

[@shuaibmohammed3256]

Subscribed

[@Kuleto]

Before watching too much of the video, my understanding is that we do have choice and will and resolve but ultimately success is up to Allah and Allah is ultimatelly in control (Surah 67:1). The Prophet Muhammad S.A.W. said "tie your camel and rely on God" right, but if Allah makes me forget to tie my camel or if I make a mistake, then ultimatelly that is, what the Qadr of Allah S.W.T. and what was written. Same with the story of when Musa in the Surah the cave when his companion forgot the fish and they had to retrace their steps. I can want this and that to occur but it won't occur unless Allah wills it. I can want a (certain) person or persons to be muslim but they won't be unless Allah wills it (ultimately). I can still try and it is up to me to try still though, yes and to try to be upright. The life is a test. In order to have good results it is up to Allah ultimatelly and I have to do my part, I can't stop doing prayers etc. And think I will have good results...on the contrary, I will go down and be in the negative (very negative, in this case). Allah causes the fruit to grow and be multiplied, I can only control myself basically. I need to submit to God, and the more I submit, the closer I get to righteousness and to Allah S.W.T. You talk about fire, well, the story of Ibrahim A.S. is a good lesson about that in my view; but, that is the pinnacle of reliance, Iman and trust in Allah S.W.T., one need also look at the Prophet Muhammad S.A.W.,the Sahaba and numerous ayat in the Holy Qur'an about charity and also know that jihad is the highest, the peak or pinnacle in Islam and it's actually not just physical fighting but encompassing all aspects of life and self. So, willing to sacrifice one's life and trusting in Allah, that is, yeah, quite a high or peak...Every situation is different though and times constantly change, it could be that in some times that like with the hadith of spending money or giving sadaqah, that it could be that witholding for the sake of Allah could be the right thing to do as well, much like it is the right thing to do to hold one's tongue in some situations.

[@Kuleto]

We are suppose to say(!), "inshallah" and "mashallah" and "bismillah, al hamdu lillah", like, when drinking water.

[@Kuleto]

"Tie your camel and rely on Allah" but I wouldn't have a camel if it wasn't by Allah S.W.T. I wouldn't get to my destination if Allah S.W.T. didn't will it, allow it. I wouldn't be alive lf Allah didn't allow me to still be alive. I think you are going too far in the depiction or conveyance of the Ash'ari school of thought and Al Ghazzali's works and other sufi's works in saying that they say or are like the people who say, that we humans don't have free will. I say Allah causes the rain and the wind and is the controller. His is the dominion of the heavens and the earth. We shouldn't get too arrogant or this type of self reliant thinking but I like some of Ibn Taymiyah's aqeedah in this regard as well, but I don't think it's perfect once he goes into it in detail, I think it's better to leave it very simple. And Allah aleum. It is a complicated topic, I dont think I focused enough or have went into it enough myself or quite have the knowledge lf the Qur'an and Sunnah to say too much. I think it's also good to note and think that the Prophet Muhammad S.A.W. before like this one battle, I forget, stayed up praying during the night but and also, he S.A.W. was the least fearful and most courageous of people they say as well. That is a kind of trust, which is a submission. And iman, which I do think, is attained through will though and good works etc, and inner work, I don't think Ash'ari's deny that, but ultimatelly are deferring and bowing still to Allah S.W.T. in humble submissiveness and accept Allah's decree as well.

[@Kuleto]

Jihad of the nafs - Instead of being self focused and self centered, me me me, which is a kind of arrogance that results in division or divides such as self-righteousness and anger like when one's ego is hurt or attacked. Jihad of the nafs is not easy. And the Ash'ari's do not say, just do as you please etc., but they say to acquire knowledge etc. And knowledge can guide to right action which is the acquiescence of good fruit, but no doubt I myself would not be able to produce such fruit myself, we are just slaves/servants of Allah S.W.T. and to fear Allah S.W.T. 😧🙂. I think it's good Allah has made all kinds of different people. Of different colors etc. As Allah S.W.T. says and so we can expect different people to have different points of view. These are allowable differences and we can think and contemplate on such and many different things and topics. We shouldn't try to say people are disbelievers etc. Because they have differing beliefs and understandings than us on certain and allowable differences of opinion. Certainly we are not suppose to divide onto sects and to fear Allah regarding such extremism.

[@Kuleto]

Do you cause the rain or does Allah? If the water becomes sunken into the ground how are you going to attain it? Or what are you to do? If your risq is taken away what are you going to do? If you are put into Gaza and face the situation and atrocities they face how are you going to handle that? Could you? Or would you break? - I've heard, we want to build our foundation on a rock, something solid, but we are not suppose to be like a piece of wood but more like a pliant kind of plant, or like a flower, able to bend but not break. Store your treasures up in heaven (build your house) but dont let your heart become hard like a rock or such like that or get too big headed or cocky, arrogant, etc. We come from a piece of discharged white fluid and Allah is the One and to Allah we will (*all*) be returned. And even if you do break, what are you going to do? Totally break or are you going to come back to Allah and ask for forgiveness? We're all humans. We all make mistakes and sin. But the ones higher in rank, like the Prophet's of Allah, S.W.T. are the ones who accept being thrown into the fire - accepting their fate. It's an internal acquiescence of "goodly strength", not like a piece of wood or a "one dimensional man".

[@marcd9632]

Ibn Taymiyyah affirms infinite regression of events in the past to be permissible.

[@petritkola]

@@marcd9632 ok and?

[@marcd9632]

​@petritkola Consider it information for your viewers. I didn't want to make any argument.

[@petritkola]

@@marcd9632 ghazali states that if revelation comes and it goes against our intellect we should uphold our intellect over revelation. I.e take our intellect over the Quran Consider it information for you, you know lol

[@marcd9632]

@petritkola I know that, that's why I reject him and Al-Razi, who said the same exact thing. The above statement I made was about something that I thought you said, but you didn't.

[@petritkola]

@@marcd9632 ah ok then

[@lovetwentyfourseven7428]

Finding Christian Arianism within the Quran. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fmiqlquXetWbh8ksi=p_jQ0ytcXeK0Cp

[@amzyahmed313]

Just an observation on the aspect of knowledge in and of itself being able to convince people.... There are some non muslim scholars who stidy the quran for decades and never accepting its teaching. How would you justify that. Further more Allah states he guides who he wills and misguides who he wills.... Just an observation. Im not a scholar merlely an aspiring student of knowledge. My understanding he gives whatever he wants to whomever he wants and no one can question that. He is the all mighty, all knowing the all wise. Knowledge is of two types, the intellect ie mind and the heart. You cant always apply logic in this case.

[@petritkola]

@@amzyahmed313 knowledge is a tool that is used to convince people of Islam. However people who study Islam for years but say they are not Muslim and those who die on that kufr, they knew the truth of Islam but chose to not accept it. As Allah says in the Quran, even if Allah were to reveal himself to people they would still not believe. So the burden of believing in Allah is on the person themselves and if they don’t believe after knowing it is because they choose not to believe (it’s a heart thing more so than a logical and evidence based issue)

[@musha3462]

Both ghazali and Ibn tamiya are amazing please don't abuse these giants take which view you want both are ahle Sunna don't create fitna

[@petritkola]

@@musha3462 how did I create fitna?

[@musha3462]

@@petritkola not yourself but some in the comments are

[@Critical_Truth]

The only thing he said was one aligns more with Quran and sunnah which Masha’Allah. It’s true one is more authentic than the other. Subhan’Allah that’s all he’s saying. He didn’t call one a khafir.

[@MaxamadAxmadqaasim]

Ibnutey was mujasim😂

[@petritkola]

@@MaxamadAxmadqaasim lol prove it cause he wasn't 😂

[@MaxamadAxmadqaasim]

@@petritkola look his fatwah you will see

[@petritkola]

@@MaxamadAxmadqaasim you made the claim show proof. People who make the claim and say "google it" don't really add anything to the Convo lol

[@ampagetech2624]

Ibn taimiyya , Ibn Taimiyya we are tired of this hero of extremists - the man was just a sophist whose writings are very boring long winding jumble with very little coherence - The man's ability has been exaggerated by the wahhabis and salafis who forged many anecdotes about him because they had very few illustrious scholars hence their exaggeration of ibn taimiyya. Even in his time he was not the best scholar of hadith - Ibn Daqiq al Eid was the best faqih of hadith while Mizzi was the most learned in rijal. Ibn taimiyya was the best in memorisation of hadith.only and Dimyati was the best in ansab. He had many untenable ideas like the hawadis la awwala laha - eternal no biginning contingency , the fana of the fire etc. He beleived Allah is up in the sky sitting on a throne with a weight - complete tajsim

[@abdulkadirsheikh7671]

Am 100% certain u don’t even know the Quran and u have encouragement to attack great scholar like ibn Taymmiya bcz he refutes u bida and shirk that is found in sect

[@justice70567]

​​​​​​​​​@@abdulkadirsheikh7671 Ibn taymiyyah and likewise his student ibn qayyim believed that hell is not eternal lol. If this is not bida, then i dont know what is bida.

[@abdulkadirsheikh7671]

@@justice70567 what most ahlu bida do is accusing someone with out evidence plz bring u evidence or stop yapping

[@arianitteamaxess674]

@@abdulkadirsheikh7671 wahabi detected

[@petritkola]

@@ampagetech2624 sitting on a throne with weight? Give me the evidence he says this

[@muhammadbello8756]

Jazakum Allah Kayran Akhi, what are the sources of Ibn Taymiyyah views?

[@petritkola]

@@muhammadbello8756 check the blog where I put the sources. It’s in the description inshallah