Alex OConnor's Emotivism and the Satisfaction Definition of God

‪@SeenUnseenMag‬ Alex O'Connor: The Cosmic Skeptic explains what could make him believe in God • Alex O'Connor: The Cos...
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[@SofaWrld]

"God is that which finally satisfies" -PVK This is similar to my thesis statement in a book I'm working on: Minimizing your energy loss over time in the prescence of love approaches that which is most satisfying

[@chrishoward8473]

I watched Friday Morning Nameless and Chad had some complaints about life, health future worries.... Then he made a definite shift to "My life is so good" gratefulness. A set of beliefs that builds that kind of emotional resilience is going to yield a successful culture.

[@mostlynotworking4112]

Misery deliverance gratitude

[@WmLocke]

Clever people often seem to think (or rather feel) that if they do something like call a tiger by its scientific name, Panthera tigris, it somehow makes the animal safe and manageable. Similarly, when Alex O’Connor says he’s an ethical emotivist, he’s just putting his thoughts and feelings in a can that he can kick down the road. This compartmentalisation is understandable and hopefully just a step towards greater insights.

[@williambranch4283]

You only know you have a heart, if somebody breaks it, usually more than once ;-(

[@WmLocke]

@@williambranch4283Yes. Hopefully, you also learn to be careful with other people’s hearts too.

[@EmJay2022]

In times of social desolation and the crumbling of cultural foundations, our intellect and pride unite in pursuit of novel resolutions. However, rather than engaging in a constructive examination of our deep-seated trepidations, we tend to seek refuge in mental, emotional, and interpersonal diversions, often at the expense of our moral intuitions. The rise of a materialistic worldview can be traced back to Greek and pagan influences, which starkly contrasts with the Jewish tradition of divine revelation. The ancient Jewish people were guided by divine truth, while the Greeks were swayed by empty wisdom (mental diversions) which ultimately led to an empty and nihilistic worldview. Micheal Servetus boldly claimed that Trinitarianism, at its core, mirrors atheism. He maintained that this doctrine, when fully explored, culminates in atheism, as it is based on empty human philosophy instead of genuine divine revelation, ultimately steering us away from God. With that said, when we introduce the leaven of Greek thought into Christian doctrine, it inevitably leavens the entire belief system. Therefore, it’s hardly surprising that mainstream Christianity and Christian culture at large is facing a crisis. Trinitarianism emerged as a means to resolve political/social unrest, a phenomenon evident in the works of JBP, JP, JV and even within TLC with Estuary. Rather than a unified quest for truth, these efforts represent an emotive strategy aimed at alleviating discord through human creativity and not through genuine repentance and divine revelation. As much as you try to delay the outcome, with this short-term approach the end will always be that of the Greeks.

[@TheDrb27]

This sounds more like Euthyphro’s Dilemma. Are you familiar with DCT and the claims it leads to atheism?

[@EmJay2022]

@@TheDrb27 What does DCT stand for? I doubt you mean dual clutch transmission.

[@TheDrb27]

@@EmJay2022Divine Command Theory. I should have typed it out , sorry.

[@williambranch4283]

Older is better. Got Sumerian?

[@TheDrb27]

@@williambranch4283 Enkidu has entered the chat…

[@ian111]

I think we should be harder on Alex O'Connor. Like you say, Paul, he ignores Peterson's core thesis. It's not that New Atheists just have different feelings about God or anything (as he would prefer to believe), it's that they are ignorant of the full implications of the rationality they claim to base their lives upon. They have it presented to them again and again but they chose to return to their cherished escapism.

[@I4MWH014M]

You are right, at one point Justin says that he's doing a bait and switch and it's true of him quite often.

[@gfxpimp]

I think Alex would say that both believers and not tend to share the same feelings about what's right and wrong. The question of gods/goddesses is one of fact not of ethics. Does my cat exist? What you feel about it doesn't matter, as it is clear there is a definitive answer independent of feelings, even if you may not know it yet. Emotivism assumes that there is no definitive (objective) answer that can ever be found.

[@ian111]

@@gfxpimp The category of right and wrong, better known as good and evil, is a category that finds its home in religious thinking not materialistic thinking. That's my point - it IS a bait and switch to keep referring to right and wrong AND to claim its just feelings.

[@gfxpimp]

@@ian111 It seems you have conveniently defined right and wrong (good and evil) as something a non-believer could not possibly have access to.

[@ian111]

@@gfxpimp on the contrary - Alex O’Connor pursues the good as does Dawkins. What they can’t do is JUSTIFY the distinction philosophically on materialism. As Paul points out, reducing morals or beliefs to feelings is a performative contradiction.

[@PresidentFoxman]

I’ve studied emotivism in the past and mentioned it a few times. My take is that it acknowledges the flaws in 90% of ethical discussions where people are talking about their disgust reactions, but it fails to account for the other 10%. In this portion of conversations there is a proper understanding that ethics and morality are the playing out of personal and cultural priority structures which are necessary for any action or you get stuck in Nihilism quicksand.

[@williambranch4283]

Gay men have a disgust reaction to women. Dems have a disgust reaction to DT ;-)

[@ChadTheGirlDad]

I feel that the boundaries discussion is better framed when we think about boundaries are what we wear that contain us and our actions. Rather than barriers we establish to protect ourselves from others who have no sense of “personal control” , or those that operate in life based on the density of other peoples boundaries. For example. I would run rampant and promiscuously through dating sites. I would only interact with women who were looking to hook up. I didn’t know that’s what I was doing. I thought i was looking for a girlfriend. This happened so often that I felt alone and dishonest. I realized I never took the time to get to know someone before sex. The idea of boundaries came up. I realized that I had no boundaries that would keep me pointed at the ideal. These weak implicit boundaries had to be abandoned. I had to establish new boundaries that weren’t contingent on the boundaries or barriers others had established for themselves. It was a game changer for me.

[@williambranch4283]

TMI

[@casandra0]

Bumper rails to keep you out of the gutter

[@ChadTheGirlDad]

@@williambranch4283 I’ve repented sir and am using as illustration. Not theory.

[@EmJay2022]

Perhaps this is best left for the confession booth.

[@ChadTheGirlDad]

@@EmJay2022 I don’t recommended everyone sharing in this way. But I feel it necessary to share that way

[@michel-jeantailleur]

Feelings... nothing more than feelings... trying to forget my... feelings of love... Teardrops...

[@falcondark5338]

Also He has put eternity in their ❤️ Is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it?

[@williambranch4283]

La Shanah Tovah, y'all

[@mostlynotworking4112]

Brilliant. Television to Telephone. One v two way participation

[@mutedplum465]

20:00 speaking of conversations would you speak to Alex? or maybe it would be good chat for Sam(transfigured)?

[@williambranch4283]

Definitely Sam. Sam Gamgee is an excellent choice to talk to Alex ;-)

[@Mountainmaniavision]

Important to note that the study Alex brings up about court hearings is fatally flawed because the order of the cases is *non random* . I’m astonished Sapolsky is still bringing this up years later!

[@Mountainmaniavision]

The prisoners closer to lunch are those who have opted to act as their own defence lawyer rather than employing one. Amusingly I suppose using a flawed study to support a suspicion about free will almost proves the point Alex is making either way. Very hard to stop reason being dragged around by our priors

[@estheroreilly3143]

I actually agreed with Alex over WLC in their dialogue. The Canaanite conundrum so to speak is I think insoluble under strict biblical inerrancy. There's a difference between God directly taking life and God commanding humans to take life, when it's innocent. (Capital punishment is another category.)

[@skylinefever]

I sometimes discuss how there are few times I am willing to admit to be an emotivist. I am a car guy and also worked in auto repair. I have no shame in saying that I have an emotion burning hatred to timing belts. I refuse to buy a car which has one. I also have to wonder if a like of certain Nissans is why I got a burning desire to visit Japan. The Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo was an influence, but how many people loved or even owned a Z car? How many got a desire to visit Japan from it?

[@Neal_Daedalus]

19:20 does that make black holes self-centered totalitarianism?

[@stevecass7575]

Alex's story of the judge sending people to prison or not based on when they last ate is disingenuous. In the preamble to that story he said they ignored political bias. Well, as political bias, or I'll be kinder and say socio-political attitudes, are the single largest factor to judges decision-making, ignoring that and pointing to a minor secondary characteristic is misleading.

[@marcusshera1232]

Men Without Chests. Goes Without Saying.

[@RMarshall57]

Imagine the scenario in which an ablation is being performed on a woman in a context in which it is legitimized by custom. The girl (and maybe her mother) have a deep intuition (feeling according to Alex) that this is wrong. By contrast, the father and the 'great and the good' feel deeply that this operation complies with what is fundamentally right. Whose intuition (feeling) should determine the rightness of this act?

[@jsinferno7134]

I think ethical emotivism is nihilistic so neither of them are right because a moral claim cannot be true. Saying this is right or wrong isn’t a true statement like 2+2=4 it’s just expressing approval or disapproval of something

[@whatJesusactuallysaid]

The Canaanite issue: I grow weary of hearing the construal of this as "genocide". God told Abraham that the iniquity of the Canaanite people had not yet reached its peak. Four hundred years later, it had. Generation-after-generation of Canaanites were then living their lives against God. (Yes, there were a few exceptions. Very few.) GOD IS LOVE. For God to let the Canaanites(as a whole) continue to live their lives against him would have been UNloving! A similar sentiment is expressed in Genesis when God says, "Now that Sin has entered, we can't let them continue to have access to the Tree of Life lest they live forever like this." See also Rom 3:25. God will not let life lived against him to go on forever. BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE UNLOVING. The only life worth living is the life lived for and with him (2 For 5:15 would illustrate). The Canaanite conquest is not "genocide". It is God acting IN LOVE to stop an entire race of people to go on living their lives without him in perpetuity. And this is a precursor to what He is ultimately going to do with the entire Human race. He is not going to let Sin go on forever.

[@kevinfelix3006]

god states "see that man has BECOME LIKE ONE OF US, knowing good and evil, now [lets cut off access to the Tree...]" to state that the reason access to the Tree was removed is because of sin is to agree that god is sinful himself because he stated that humanity had become like him and the others. i like the sound of that, do you agree? now there's also the unloving factor of hell. i dont know your understanding of hell but to say god deleting people out of existence is an act of love, but there are entire swaths of christianity that agrees he sends those people to be tortured forever... is that really the loving thing to do?

[@whatJesusactuallysaid]

​@@kevinfelix3006 The narrative is not saying that God is sinful. Such a proposition does not deserve a second of consideration. Hell? I am one who believes that "hell" is annihilation. In an act of love (remember, everything that God does is God LOVING), God ceases to will the existence of those who do not want to have a relationship with him. It is punishment. It is everlasting. But it is not everlasting punishING. No, a loving God would not sustain the existence of his children in order to eternally, consciously torment them. There are only a couple of verses that are used to make a case for hell being a place of eternal, conscious torment. Those verses are taken out of context to make that case.

[@kevinfelix3006]

@@whatJesusactuallysaid so when god says "jacob have i loved, but esau i hated." (romans 9:13) he is hating esau out of love?? isnt hate a sin as well?? seems sinful to me.

[@whatJesusactuallysaid]

​@@kevinfelix3006 First of all, are you actually wanting to have a meaningful discussion about this? That aside, what is being spoken about is the covenant of promise, both in Rom 9 and Malachi (that is being quoted). It is not SALVATION that is being spoken about. And the context of Malachi makes it clear that what is being spoken of is not the individual men (Jacob and Esau). What is being spoken of is entire PEOPLES - their descendants. What is being spoken of is God's choice for who would receive the covenant of promise. It was Jacob; not Melchizedek, Esau or Ishmael. Why? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT GOD WANTED! Was it because there was something special about Jacob? NO! Did God literally "hate" Esau, without a cause, before he was born? No. Remember Jesus rebuking some for hating him "without cause" (John 15). Yes, you can find some (calvinistic) authors who say that God literally hated Esau, the man, without a cause, before he was born. I think that is nonsense. "But Esau he hated" is a poetic way of expressing a truth, not meant to be taken literally. Esau, Ishmael and Melchizedek were still open to receiving salvation. They just were not the ones through whom the "covenant of promise" was given.

[@wmarkfish]

About Alex’s issues with the Canaanite wars...there have been tens of thousands of such massacres in the past few millennia since then and I don’t know how many were perpetrated by Alex’s direct ancestors but I’m guessing a few. Lucky for Alex too because without such bloodbaths who knows where the person called Alex O’Conner would be, or if he would be. It was his barbarous ancestors violently asserting themselves into place that has afforded Mr O’Conner the luxurious lifestyle to philosophize and to judge an ancient race of people.

[@jsinferno7134]

I’m sure Alex would still say they were morally wrong so really not sure what your point is. Isn’t God and his people meant to be morally righteous and not like all the other barbarians throughout history?

[@comeintotheforest]

I’m glad we’re back to PVK monologues… 😅 That’s that good stuff imo.

[@mostlynotworking4112]

Look at the Bible Project’s Paradigm series from two plus years ago

[@laurafreeburn8439]

ca 17 minutes...I don't think the master/emissary model has much relevance to the question of whether your decisions are based on emotions or logic, though it does discuss which emotions are associated with which hemisphere

[@Bodofooko]

It does seem that the emotivism thing is just stopping short. We are certainly subject to our emotions, but the fact that we can become aware that we are subject to our emotions seems like it will affect the degree to which we are subject to them. If we become aware that we are more likely to behave in a certain way given a particular emotional state, then we should probably work on shoring up our character when we are not in those states so that we can rely on our cultivated discipline in moments of intense emotion. Noah didn't start building the ark when it began to rain.

[@TheDrb27]

Is turning the other cheek both irrational and moral?

[@williambranch4283]

Depends on if the other guy has an AK47 ;-)

[@mutedplum465]

What enneagram would Paul be? maybe 2w3?

[@PaulVanderKlay]

never done it

[@mutedplum465]

@@PaulVanderKlay guidance from a fellow pastor: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJfQdoGba9CfrdU

[@Mercyme57]

@@PaulVanderKlayGood call it has demonic roots. kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJOTaJZ4ft2UqJYsi=Spik6qsjlXZK_t4L

[@GrimGriz]

Tinderbelle?

[@AphraelPilotson]

Tinderella

[@WhiteStoneName]

35:00 "God is that which finally satisfies perfectly, eternally, never-endingly." Is this the promise of the "libidinal pursuit of the Lack (that which promises to make you whole and complete)"? What if you continually find that you don't get what you want or what you think will make you eternally/perfectly satisfied? I don't think that God is the mere fulfillment of desire, but salvation is also not the elimination of desire.

[@williambranch4283]

Infinite eternal orgasm? Needs counseling if that is the case.

[@skylinefever]

@@williambranch4283 Perhaps it is the infinite not feeling a desire to chase orgasm?

[@chrishoward8473]

What I want and satisfaction are not congruent concepts.

[@michaelkistner6286]

Emotivism: moral nihilism in a tie dyed T-shirt.

[@jbsweeney1077]

Can't believe Paul mentioned ZeroHP Lovecraft. lol

[@Spudeaux]

I’m always caught off guard when a video from the Seen & Unseen podcast comes up on my feed because the logo looks suspiciously like the word “SEX” 😂

[@billtimmons7071]

I miss Paul's Peterson lobster he used to have in the background of his videos. Lobsters know what Alex is discovering. It just took them 350 million years :)

[@PaulVanderKlay]

It's back there, deflated and ignored. I'll have to inflate him again. I'm sure the occassion will arise. I almost threw him away cleaning my office but thought better of it. :)

[@michel-jeantailleur]

@@PaulVanderKlay Should replace it with a Trump doll.

[@dannybbolt]

@@michel-jeantailleur My goodness I love Trump...

[@OneMansOdyssey]

22:28 - I think a better line of questioning for Tom Holland's thesis is why similar dialectics as happen in the West happen in areas that are either not historically Christian or not historically exposed to Protestant Christianity. American left-wingism clearly is heavily influenced by Protestantism, some would argue in direct lineage, but is Russian or Chinese leftism? Of course, those were influenced by Marx, who is German, therefore exposed to Western Christianity and specifically Protestantism, but then why would it take off in Russia or China or Vietnam? Is Christianity so "infective" that all it takes is a few generations of colonialism, highly localized in China's case, for these patterns to take root? Can a struggle session in Maoist China really be linked to Calvin and Servetus or the Gregorian revolution?

[@samuraijack7295]

By what metric is the culture of the West, "the best thing going around"?

[@PaulVanderKlay]

Immigration

[@williambranch4283]

I love Samurai Jack ... just not in ... that ... way ;-)

[@samuraijack7295]

@@PaulVanderKlay The impetus behind immigration to Europe and U.S seems, to me, to be based on economic opportunity to a far greater degree rather than being based on their "better" culture?

[@WhiteStoneName]

@@samuraijack7295 And, imo, that’s changing. I think that people with means and true opportunity and starting to leave. I think a lot of comers are gonna be fighting over the dregs h less we become a creative/productive country. (Talking about the US, and probably Canada) We need some Aragorns or the West will fall.

[@SofaWrld2]

I don't mean to be that person (professional worrier xD), but I'm not sure I understand looking up explanations (e.g. what is ethical emotivism) via a chat AI. Wouldn't one rather Google it and have a source for what you're reading? Don't critical thinking skills get impared at the cost of getting an answer or explanation slightly faster with a chat AI? :S

[@AnthonyFransella]

Agreed, though copilot does provide source links for you, which is a nice touch. Still have to click on them if course :)

[@SofaWrld2]

👍

[@skadoodaks2275]

Yes, God satisfies, but that's not a definition of God - it's a description of what God *does*. A definition of God is Truth. Truth satisfies. Knowing it will make you free. I don't think we can change our hearts, at least not by force of will. We can do the work of learning what is true, and in turn, our hearts are changed by that knowing.

[@brendonlake1522]

I think Alex needs so much more push back on his ethical emotivism!

[@alohm]

2:30 - I call this 'term wars' people will define their meaning in such a way as to avoid approaching the true value. Like a recent discussion in a discord group - about the meaning of atheist - in the end they argued about multiple meanings - thus it was impossible for anyone to discuss the idea?! I mean you could just agree on a definition of the concept at the outset... But common sense is neither common nor sensible, often? **Preformative contradictions, or the duality in non-duality. I would show as example a recent book: Reclaim the rapture of Jamie Wheal. In it he is discussing the computer - yet only mentions Babbage and his machine. Omits Ada Lovelace, I mean her name alone deserves a mention. Fails to explain that the Babbage engine would be soulless and essentially nothing groundbreaking without the idea that was 'Ada and the algorithm'. Thus the dawn of the computer age began with an idea not a machine. Worse was the following discussion of the dual perspectives on the mind/conciousness. Are we the result of chemical reactions and this we feel the self? Or are we connected to something more - Shakti or Seele or the collective unconscious in Will James' Radical Empiricism. A book designed to look at this mystical experience of self that doctors think we perceive even as children and thus leads to this avenue of inquiry. Are we missing the headline like Wheal when he omits Lovelace which would have been the optimum(omega) example of this idea that we are the machine, the vessel, it is the code(be it what is may be) the divine we experience in our potentiality. Be it the belief in that we are the meta being - we are more than our selves. As Carl Sagan said: what do you mean by God. I do not think it matters how we define it - it is the concept that we are the not centre of the universe but we can impact it profoundly.

[@williambranch4283]

Atheists are a slippery bunch, almost serpentine ;-) Term migration ... move the perceived meaning during discussion, under the table. Aka deceit. I discussed philosophy, not religion, with atheists, for 5 years. “When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.’ ’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things." ’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master - that’s all.” Humpty Dumpty is based in an English landlord in Ireland who was lynched by his tenants.

[@amurdo4539]

I think that God can be said to both satisfy and not-satisfy simultaneously. God definitely doesn't just satisfy emotions. The opposite is also equally the case.

[@williambranch4283]

G-d is the most unsettling idea ever. I see atheists as cowards ;-(

[@IDdrummer39]

16:49 RA RA Punchy Paul! lol

[@nuevogringo7423]

Your idea of "moral gravity" sounds like memetic Social Darwinism. The package of values, myths, ideas, etc that is most effective at spreading is Christianity, so that makes it the Best in some real sense. That's more or less correct, but you have to keep in mind: fitness is context-dependent. After 200 million years of dominating the seas, you may be forgiven in assuming that the Trilobites are the Ultimate Form of Animal. Evolution did not rest until it rested in the Trilobites. Then the Permian Extinction happened, and the Last Animal was no more. Are Christianity and it's descendants ("the West") the Objectively Best Memes, or simply the memes most fit to the present Age of Pisces (ΙΧΘΥΣ), which shall go the way of the Trilobite at the coming of the next Age?

[@williambranch4283]

Don't ask for who the Trilo bites ... yes, descriptive not prescriptive. If Hitler won, is that best?

[@robertbdavisii9801]

"That which finally satisfies" is exactly what the buddha was looking for. Here's my pitch for the Buddha finding Christ: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mKCmq6KVorV3Z6Msi=xqUndtAb2hN2Xb1v

[@MarcInTbilisi]

No straightening out here, you basically agreed with everything I've been saying, for example, wisdom enters the head through the heart (emotions). Incidentally, emotion means 'first mover' or that which moves us first. In the old analogy of the carriage, horse and driver, the horse represents the heart, the driver represents the head and the carriage, body. Except the horse has been badly neglected... AO'C has a very sharp mind so it's difficult for him to relate to heart, his mind is too dominant. To do this switch he has to quiet his mind but this is very difficult as he considers it his most valuable asset.

[@williambranch4283]

See Krishna's discussion with Arjuna.

[@MarcInTbilisi]

@@williambranch4283 I read it found it *very* interesting, though I'm not sure of the connection with my comment.

[@williambranch4283]

@@MarcInTbilisi Requires further explication by both of us. Feel free when you have time.

[@MarcInTbilisi]

@@williambranch4283 I'm planning a new channel called 'uneducated philosopher'. Maybe we could do a rando together?

[@jsinferno7134]

Hey not sure if I’ve misunderstood but the point of ethical emotivism is that it is morally nihilistic, so when you say this leads to someone makes their own morality this is maybe misleading. To an ethical emotivist morality doesn’t exist, when someone says “murder is wrong” this is not the same as “2+2 =4”. There is no trueness or falseness in “murder is wrong”. To the ethical emotivist you are simply saying you disapprove of murder but it being “true” in any sense is a meaningless question

[@lolersauresrex8837]

I never thought I would live in a world where Tgrog is name dropped almost daily..

[@alohm]

32:13 Perfect place for 1 Timothy 1:8-11 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.

[@williambranch4283]

Psych pardons all sinners. Jesus Christ not required ;-)

[@chadnine3432]

Paul shaved. He must have a date. :)

[@OneMansOdyssey]

12:23 - I would push back on Alex's interpretation of what he said. He said the biggest correlating factor (apart from political bias, etc., so presumably it's not the biggest?) was how long it had been since they had eaten, but that does NOT mean that people are sent to prison over it. Maybe if the correlation was very close to 1, but that's not what he said.

[@Eilfylijokul]

It's a bad study that has come under criticism for not properly accounting for the way cases get scheduled. There's also been studies that show that Muslim judges are harsher with their sentencing after Ramadan than they are when they were observing their fast. At the very least we can say that hunger isn't the driving factor. It's funny to me that Alex insists he only cares about the "truth" of the matter when it comes to religion but chooses narratives that describe how he perceives reality without caring too much about the veracity of the claims he's making.

[@PresidentFoxman]

Alex seem to really enjoy the Emotivist game on Piers Morgan 😂 “Boooooooo Monarchy!!!” “Yaaaayy Democracy!!”

[@alohm]

15:25 What resonated for me from Thomas Merton's work was "the goal is to get to a state when the answers are not needed because we are without questions". Not a lack of need, but one of understanding: that concepts fail. It is when practised and found is it to be understood, not when sought, St John of the Cross. We all labour in the shadows, Lucretius.

[@williambranch4283]

Actual reason, not the LARPers.

[@anselman3156]

Didn't you take the EV to the levee?

[@williambranch4283]

Don't ask about the Tsar Bomba, it will ask about you ;-( Thats a lyric from a Cold War doom song.

[@PresidentFoxman]

But was the levee dry?

[@anselman3156]

@@PresidentFoxman good ol' boy!

[@anselman3156]

@@williambranch4283 Is it trending again in light of recent escalation of aggression? Tom Hark by the Piranas might be added to the playlist, along with Talkin' World War Blues by Mr Zimmerman.

[@anselman3156]

@@williambranch4283 Oh, and 99 Luftballon!

[@ALEXORYN]

I prefer Paul at the pool

[@williambranch4283]

As long he doesn't turn on the auto-swim ;-(

[@laurafreeburn8439]

There's a discussion of ethical emotivism in After Virtue by Alasdair MacIntyre

[@dannybbolt]

John Vervaeke needs to come out and endorse Trump (and threaten people)

[@alohm]

29:00 PVK - it is not Mao's red book that is someone 'educated' post great leap forward... In reality the true competitor to the Bible in the East is the I Ching. The Chinese book of Change also Yi Jing. It is often sighted as the catalyst for the 100 schools of philosophy. Jung wrong an introduction to a translation, and even used it for his active imagination sessions... Neil Postman's warning again - believe little of what you hear and read today, trust bu verify.

[@alohm]

易經

[@williambranch4283]

Random leechee generator? Explains why the CCP is so hapless.

[@williambranch4283]

@@alohm Art of War

[@alohm]

@@williambranch4283 not even close. Good book but not as widely read. AofW for us maybe?

[@williambranch4283]

@@alohm You aren't Deep Lo Mein. AoW is superior to The Analects.

[@buglepong]

alex will come to the same place jordan peterson more or less is, if he hasnt actually already done so. basically you cant logic god and you cant logic him away; psychology, neurology and darwinism seem to show we have no idea what any of this means; and the clock counts down so at some point you just have to get off the fence one side or the other, reason be damned.

[@whatJesusactuallysaid]

I follow the "meaning" conversation as much as anyone else. But all of this stuff is so esoteric. The number of questions that can be generated is never-ending. At some point, one should make a decision: God or no-God. And then get on with it. If God, then learn about HIM and develop a relationship with HIM. If no-God, then become a hedonist and an abortionist and a genocidalist - all to improve your own chances for a nice pre-mortem experience.

[@williambranch4283]

Propositionalism is bedevilment ;-)

[@whatJesusactuallysaid]

@@williambranch4283 Exactly! Genesis (the Bible) begins with a narrative; testifying to the fact that humans are NARRATIVELY-driven creatures.

[@skylinefever]

One of my arguments is how many people can "Get" meaning. It isn't as simple to many as just plugging a meaning into their lives. How many get nothing more than 42 in Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy?

[@williambranch4283]

@@skylinefever The question was superior to the answer. Total mockery of computer science.

[@skylinefever]

@@williambranch4283 I did not realize it was a joke about computer science. I thought the whole thing was a joke about people putting everything they have into finding the meaning of life.

[@sellicott]

I like snarky Paul

[@Mercyme57]

Alex is from a Roman Catholic family…🤔

[@PaulVanderKlay]

Oh, Interesting.

[@Mercyme57]

@@PaulVanderKlay The Wordpress interview linked in my other comment gave good insights I thought.

[@ukcj4jonesy896]

As usual, we take a true aspect of a thing and then try to say that this aspect is the explanation “all the way down” or in other words the aspect or part is the whole. It’s not. This is the greatest of all fallacies. All the way down.

[@williambranch4283]

Except ... all the way up ;--)

[@alohm]

11:45 - Sapolsky 's book is disappointing - not the writing but that so many have either been convinced with a poor argument or many claim they have read his work and have not. It is unconvincing at best, and at worst may reflect Dawkins in that he may create more believers in Free Will than in Determinism.

[@williambranch4283]

I have watched his lectures on YT. Disappointing. Too much Weed IMHO.

[@JHimminy]

@@williambranch4283he’s never done any drugs or ever had a drink, so quite a bore.

[@williambranch4283]

@@JHimminy You party with him?

[@JHimminy]

@@williambranch4283 podcast interview

[@PresidentFoxman]

29:23 Actually though this is also H.P. Lovecraft’s idea and not just Pseudo-Lovecraft’s

[@williambranch4283]

Who is Pseudo - PVK? Chat TLC?

[@PresidentFoxman]

@@williambranch4283 Zero Lovecraft

[@zachsiphone7818]

So Alex believes that emotivism is TRUE even if I personally, FEEL that it's bullshit. Interesting.

[@williambranch4283]

How much "satisfaction" did Job get? How propositional was Job?

[@alohm]

Good question? Did he understand Socrates' 'If you do not have what you want, want what you have'. The oft misunderstood contentment or satisfaction as the only achievable 'happiness'?

[@williambranch4283]

@@alohm Eastern wisdom. Western people are so ... predictable, particularly Americans. If you are never satisfied, you are a bottomless Abyss that can never be filled ;-)

[@chrishoward8473]

Job job job. Everybody loves the star of the show. The kids who had the house fall on them to make the emotional effect in the story, that's where the meat is. Of course the Helene death toll is at 180. These lightweight atheists talk about the Canaanites. Dude, you're playing their role in the story! What Job got was context. Same as the man born blind who learned why he was born blind. All the gods are cruel. The difference is when one stops to explain what is going on. And then(!) actually gives a demonstration of how to do it, that's really unusual. Guy in the news story about Helene, how he saw a person in destress, evaluated his gifts/skills, jumped into raging flood water, "I couldn't just stand there and watch her die "--- the dying part isn't the crux of the story or even very interesting, it's the jumping in.

[@williambranch4283]

@@chrishoward8473 Wow who are you? Som legit AI?

[@chrishoward8473]

@@williambranch4283 me at 3 AM I guess. No offense meant. I have a bit of feels for the bit players. I might replace the word satisfaction with gob-smacked... Isaiah in the throne room stuff, I think that is what Job got.

[@tgrogan6049]

Give the great Mr. Hume his due. "According to Hume, human beings discern moral virtues and vices by means of feeling or emotion in a way rather like sensing; but this also gives the moral judge a truth-apt idea of a virtue or vice as a felt property."

[@williambranch4283]

Scottish nihilist, who had his flat damaged by Rousseau. Original Odd Couple.

[@PresidentFoxman]

No :)

[@tgrogan6049]

@@PresidentFoxman Yes!

[@jasonthomas9746]

This video made think of jesus on the cross with the theives either side. Free from sin and suffering, but still able to judge.

[@roderickhare]

Tom Holland in his recent chat with Eric Metaxas said "If you are hostile to Christianity in the West, you will be hostile to Christianity for deeply Christian reasons." A very clever turn of a phrase for sure, but am I the only one who sees the finger-trap nature of that statement? A kind of self-answering question? If regardless of where I stand in the West I'm obviously Christian, what on earth does the label (particularly when used self-consciously) even mean?

[@williambranch4283]

Correct theology is always circular, and thus paradoxical. Liberals cancelled Metaxas ... "You can't handle the truth!".

[@roderickhare]

Well played sir.

[@williambranch4283]

@@roderickhare My wife was a Catholic nun. She taught me well. Don't overthink it. It was paradoxical.

[@EmilyTodicescu]

I watched a clip of that interview, in which Holland made the claim that the first Christians were quite embarrassed that their leader had died by the shameful method of crucifixion. When he said that this embarrassment is also evident in St Paul’s writings, I realised that everything Tom Holland says/writes needs to be taken with a giant lump of salt.

[@PresidentFoxman]

4:38 clarification: He is talking about Emotivism in the realm of Ethics not morally correct Emotivism. Emotivism could be true for many different fields, but Alex is specifically pointing to Ethics (At least that is what I’m hearing)

[@williambranch4283]

Aesthetics could be emotivist. There is no accounting for taste ;-(

[@PresidentFoxman]

@@williambranch4283 that’s just like your opinion man

[@marcusshera1232]

@@PresidentFoxman @williambrach4283 DESTROYED by Foxman

[@chrishoward8473]

​@@williambranch4283things taste better when I'm hungry.

[@ukcj4jonesy896]

I think Alex is closer to “spiritual” than “emotive” here and I wonder if he will keep moving more that way. It seems to be a progression he is on from modernism (skepticism) to postmodernism (emotion) to some kind of meta thing that is really a new form of a thing older than the modern.

[@williambranch4283]

But not holding my breath, he will inevitably CRC ;-)

[@PaulVanderKlay]

He'll first have to move to America, but then again Chris Williamson did... :)

[@ALEXORYN]

I believe the void exists only in the realm of the intellect. From these eyes, even the nothing, the no thing, is the light of the good.

[@williambranch4283]

Dualism can only be escaped on top of Mt Kailash.

[@joehass86]

Proper self-interest with a long-term Horizon should be the foundation of our ethical treatment of those around us

[@williambranch4283]

Short term only in dire circumstances. Proper self interest is agapic.

[@joehass86]

​@@williambranch4283yes this is so misunderstood by our society

[@bookpaper105]

Humans have no authority over other humans without God. God has authority over humans and gives humans authority over other humans

[@williambranch4283]

Not authority over, but service to ...