The Rebirth of God: Pathology and Promise | Jamie Wheal | EP 485

[@johnmessenger7292]

I am always astounded how many people don't seem to understand that Dr. Peterson doesn't "interview" he has conversations and is kind enough to invite us to listen

[@junedewar5190]

If I heard correctly Dr Peterson is known for talking 'God'. If my recollection is correct Dr Peterson also supported Palestinian expulsion. If this is correct I would conclude that Dr Peterson doesn't know the ways of justice or the way the Son of Yahuveh taught his followers. But who is the God of this world?

[@jameseckersley4597]

hmmm... conversation? I see and hear more of a lecture...

[@ExerciseForLifePls]

@@jameseckersley4597some conversations offer more than casual, shallow small talk

[@leonardevans1441]

​@jameseckersley4597 I understood a lecture as being carried out by a singular lecturer. Simply by nature of what it is. So this exercise would have to be described as a dual lecture. (Even though that's somewhat of a novel idea) Since both participants are employing elements of communication that could be described as lecturing.

[@deweylick6573]

And also seems to be thrashing out insights as he goes along. It's an investigation. Not a lecture.

[@yunusmulla8709]

Dr. Peterson is really talking about God more and more and I am all fir that!

[@Jak-c6n]

This is probably the first time I’ve ever seen Jordan outmatched by the hand gestures.

[@burl101]

It was a proper battle

[@mustlearnmore4884]

Now I can't concentrate on their conversation! 😂😂

[@stubinski268]

Looking forward to that 🤚 😅

[@robbiedagostino4919]

I was thinking the same thing

[@tracypewthatswho1362]

Show me a more engaging public intellectual than Jamie wheal. Love him

[@JC-qb3wx]

St Augustine, Dr of the Church knew: Our hearts are restless until they rest in God, who is truth itself. May everyone reading this have a blessed day.

[@jaja9081]

​@@Hermetic-onewas real and you (like everyone else) took his place by making a present to others in the name of Christ

[@murphymomof9]

I want more of Jamie Wheal! I think Jordan has met his intellectual match. 😊 Thank you for this conversation, both of you.

[@optimizeyourlife541]

There's a phenomenal channel that has featured Jamie quite a bit called Rebel Wisdom....I highly recommend the series from there he is a part of called "The War on Sense Making.". You won't be disappointed.

[@MohamedAshraf-fw1dc]

Jamie’s blog posts - pretty much the only things I could tolerate reading at the height of media about “israel v hamas” His writings are literally just his personal journal entries as he goes through ideas, I love it

[@TheDrb27]

Christendom has had a series of revolutions and in each one of them Christianity has died. Christianity has died many times and risen again; for it had a God who knew the way out of the grave. G.K. Chesterton

[@thinkwhileeatingpasta5217]

JP needs to diversify his view point. It is just 5 pages of stuff just regurgitated in every conversation.

[@ji8044]

That's upside down and backwards. Christianity has destroyed people ang groups all over the world, most notably the Jews whom it spent 1600 years trying to eliminate. But the Jews have risen again.

[@hfokker9562]

@@thinkwhileeatingpasta5217 to some degree, yes. But he is also seeking to get more facets of the story extracted from other people. And 5 pages is not enough for this story 🙂

[@TheDrb27]

@@thinkwhileeatingpasta5217 the first conversations Peterson does with someone usually are that way. Around an hour fifteen in , the fishing talk was about all I noticed new to him. People like Vervaeke or Pageau who he’s had a few talks with is when the new stuff usually comes out.

[@goldilocks913]

Chesterton never disappoints 🙏

[@AFringedGentianToEnnien]

Dearest Dr. Peterson, you spoke very well indeed at the event yesterday. I can’t tell you how happy it made me to see you completely surrounded by people who love you, getting all the hugs, and getting to speak and to listen, all the while looking so well and so healthy. It looked like your day did you all the good in the world, just as I prayed that it might. You needed that. I was so moved to see you praying the Lord’s Prayer with Russel because the last time I saw you pray that it was in a prayerful video you made when you were so desperately ill, and your face a mask of suffering, but your spirit shining through the brokenness of your body. And now you are well again, thank God again and again for it. It was a blessed Michaelmas. I did my bit at home to rescue the republic. I brought my kids to church. I took them for a long autumnal walk and we picked flowers and berries and threw rocks in the river. I snuggled them and read to them from their children’s Bible. I made a big pot of chicken soup from scratch to feed them homemade food. And I watched the live stream event all day. I would have liked yo be with you all in person but for now, I was content to be with you in spirit. With Ruth Anne’s love

[@JuanCarlosNunez-gu4yz]

The Lord's way is not our (fallen) Way. God being dead is one of the most Sacrilegious things to be ever uttered.

[@AFringedGentianToEnnien]

@@JuanCarlosNunez-gu4yzperhaps you should take a break from the comment section, listen, and learn something. And then you won’t be stupid anymore.’

[@muskratdove]

lol, I saw your post on Bret Weinstein's stream. You're an awesome mom!

[@christelwilk6166]

afringedgentian5426 I always enjoy reading your comments!

[@JuanCarlosNunez-gu4yz]

@afringedgentian5426 Stupid; you say! Thank you for your (insignificant) response. The true (Word of God) reaches all understanding. And we shall all bow our knee to HIM!

[@emmasprout]

Jordan you give meaning, hope and wisdom to people who need it . Thank you. You’re a blessing to this world ✝️💛

[@peterbelanger4094]

He gets too religious, he loses me on this "god" stuff. I just get angry when people speak of this "god" entity. What do they see that I can't? What am I excluded from that I can't find? I don't think this "god" exists!!!! It's juts a lie people tell themselves to cope with the knowledge of their own mortality. "God" is just a cope. "God" is fiction.

[@Static27o]

I hope the appropriate time to have Jamie Wheal back on the podcast is sooner rather than later. Great episode :D

[@Cody-c4b]

This quite literally may be one of the most important discussions I have ever witnessed in the entirety of my life thus far!! Just incredible absolutely incredible

[@Darth_Fader9888]

I hope the conversation becomes debate, and eventual resolution that reality does not belong to us 😊

[@UrbanKizBeast]

Iraqi Christian in Australia, 35 years. Love the reference to the Eluma Ilish Mesopotamian story that Jordan coincides with the birth of Genesis - generally a symbiotic but often a predatory concurrent growth, 11:20 Proud of the contribution of my forebears on civilisational development even though it's not evident much now with the Islamic takeover of the Middle East. Thanks again 👍🏼

[@r.m5883]

Love the Assyrian people!!❤

[@mtw777]

@@r.m5883❤️❤️

[@thyme4thought422]

My dude Jamie! Glad to see you guys talking. Now just need to get Daniel Schmachtenberger on, too

[@rdub4nd]

This. Right. Here.

[@benioren6120]

That right there

[@mtw777]

Haha ohhh yeah !! That guy is really smart to. I love listening to these men

[@quartqwertbudisgood]

Thought this was one of the least interesting interviews he’s done in awhile

[@FaanaMusic]

Absolutely!

[@coachjimmyers878]

Thanks! Jordan, You have made as big of a positive difference in my life as anyone has, other than my two sons. Maybe one day we can actually sit down and enjoy coffee together.😀

[@frankfunkpt5321]

One of the best back and forth eye to eye conversations, I hear thus far on Dr. Petersons Podcast. Lots of active listening on both sides, and that the guest ask clarifying questions of Dr. Peterson was great. At times it was hard to tell who‘s podcast it was 😀👍 Fantastic.

[@2noughts]

summary of jordan's philosophy: 1. the spirit of adventure 2. the optimal game of maximum participation and maximum duration. 3. an implicit moral order is in the optimal game. to learn more read his upcoming book "the spirit of adventure and the infinite game" just roughhousing

[@JordanBPeterson]

That's a great title.

[@hfokker9562]

a bit simplistic, but we can start a conversation with that :-)

[@mtw777]

Haha this was awesome

[@grietjie93]

That's absolutely marvellous. @JordanBPeterson please add that in somewhere 😂

[@mactireliath2356]

@@namelessbroadcaster My sense of this ‘implicit moral order’ is that it is not fixed in place. By its nature, as a reflection of our own, it cannot be immutable. It has to evolve slowly, and be held up with equanimity at the same time. That requires great strength, both explicit and implicit. The failure to do so might appear to be a moral failure, but is at its essence a collective failure of will. The spirit necessary to continue to turn that great wheel.

[@henrys2403]

Fantastic, this popped up in my "shorts!" Can't wait to hear this.

[@MRizzio]

The LIGHT that this conversation sheds at this very late hour is profound. I would love to listen to Jordan's exposition on the relationship between true LIGHT, LIFE, and LOVE.

[@stvmx73]

He is such an intelligent and interesting person to listen to.

[@danielfurgason770]

God never dies it's people's faith that dies, but there's always a resurrection.

[@peterbelanger4094]

"god" is a nonsense word that nobody can define.

[@FraterL]

The value of every religion is in the esoteric, the exoteric also known as the profane was the religion for the ignorant masses

[@AIartBonaza]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@danielfurgason770]

@@peterbelanger4094 Your faith will return too when you grow up. God will be waiting 🙏

[@danielfurgason770]

@@FraterL The value of religion is that it brings you closer to God, but your own personal relationship with Him is most important.

[@AFringedGentianToEnnien]

Only five minutes in and I already have a flood of thoughts. First of all, the title of Jamie’s book makes me smile. It is in reference to the “wise thrush” in Robert Browning’s poem “Home Thoughts From Abroad:” “Lest you think he never can recapture that first, fine, careless rapture!” And then with regard to the death of God, I do think we moderns don’t realize the extent to which the Great War broke humanity, as a whole. It was the first mechanized war. Through my study of some of the literature of the time period… and I’m not an expert but I studied with professors who were… I saw the societal and spiritual breakdown of our collective psyche, and I don’t think humanity has ever really recovered. Thus, “the death of God” because it seemed there was no sense to be made of such mass catastrophe. And then when I think of Zarathustra lamenting the death of God, his entire monologue a shriek of centuries of anguish, I think of the two on the road to Emmaus, who were weeping and lamenting the death of God, but God was walking right beside them in the person of Our Lord. And I think that the same applies today. God walks with us even when our eyes are holden and we do not know. I was reading Robert Frost’s autumnal poem “In Hardwood Groves” to my kids, and I was struck by the thought that the rhythms and patterns of nature are a way to understand the cycles of human history. And so “the death of God” could be the death of the leaves that “must go down past things coming up”. And that is the only way for Resurrection and a new season to come. “However it is in some other world, I know it is this way in ours.” With Ruth Anne’s love

[@mactireliath2356]

Great observations, thank you for sharing

[@AFringedGentianToEnnien]

@@mactireliath2356 thank you for reading.

[@visible177]

Thank you for making this comment. I resonate with the road to Emmaus story. Every time when I think or feel God is not with me or things are not going well, He always shows how He is with me in away I can’t deny. But I never relate Emmaus road story with the Western ( I am not western) idea of “God is dead”, “we are not religious anymore “….even though I believe the West will be Christianised again.

[@AFringedGentianToEnnien]

@@visible177your comment blessed my heart. Thank you for reading.

[@tomatom9666]

I suppose every generation has it's own version of faith that is adapted to the emotional landscape of their period. Maybe it is up to us Zoomers to return to Christianity, or succumb to something else, that's our choice to make and it depends on our level of desperation and sobriety. I myself believe wholeheartedly in the value of Christianity but have no regular embodied practice because my life has stayed in its busy secular mode. If some natural disaster hit my area, or if my heart were unreconcilably broken I would definitely rely on a stronger faith to get me out of there.

[@shannondelima3028]

I've read recapture the rapture. It was amazing. I want to listen to Jamie wheel! We already know what Jordan knows and feels. Jamie is one of the few secular voices that is trying to engage spirituality without falling back on monotheisms, such a potentially fertile ground of inquiry, and Jordan just sprinkles weed killer over all of it with his insistence of being the main voice in this discussion. Opposite of what he says around 54:35, probably due to guilty conscience 😅

[@Joefrenomics]

Yeah, that’s pretty much my main criticism of this podcast is that I leave it feeling like I don’t know enough about what Jamie is all about. Which is the opposite of how one should feel about an interviewee after an interview.

[@juliegeorge6227]

When he said, why impose ten commandments now, why not just impose the sermon on the mount, I don't want to go and watch any of his other so called lectures. You know what to expect.

[@prescottmccarthy]

Yep. Can’t say I didn’t see it coming. RTR is one of my top reads.

[@REM-hh4ee]

Thank you Jordan! Your powerful insight at Rescue the Republic rally nailed it!!! Sacrifice=the strait and narrow way to LIFE Power=the wide gate and broad Way to destruction Matthew 7:13-14, Luke 13:24👏👏👏

[@kyleganse4978]

I really dig Jamie Wheal and enjoyed all his books. Interesting to see you two talk.

[@TheCerone13]

Dr. Peterson, I’ve been a long time listener of you. I’ve posted many comments reaching out. How does someone who’s not socially high up have a conversation with you. I don’t ask for a lot in this life, and it would be a blessing the be able to talk. I’ve been on a crazy path of self discovery and growth. I also grew up without a father figure and believe that’s why I gravitate towards you as an ideal. Anyways I know this is another long shot, but worth it. Have a great day Jordan!

[@muskratdove]

You probably won't get audience with him, but perhaps you could ask questions in these comments sections that might bring you closer to the things you are seeking. I would suggest that it has nothing to do with social standing and everything to do with what you are able to offer. If you ask interesting questions, you would be offering him, and anybody who reads these comments, something that could be considered "food for thought", that he might speak to in some way. Don't feel bad, because there are probably hundreds of people with standing, with money, with education etc, that would love to speak with him too. And thousands of people who would love to have a few private counselling sessions with him. I suspect that if you read his books and sit and write a real letter to him, you would do much better than tossing off a quick comment. Good luck in your healing journey!

[@AFringedGentianToEnnien]

Dr. Peterson reads and responds to comments. If he hasn’t responded to yours, then I’m afraid you have your answer. You don’t. I’m sorry it isn’t the one you wanted. Very best luck.

[@paulaCvenecia]

Finally it happened, not even my whining uterus will stop me from watching this tonight. 2 highly, highly intelligent people, getting at it ... What a time to be alive 😍🤩🎉

[@ralfy666]

What beautiful conversations!

[@stefanlouw6395]

This conversation has sparked my eagerness, knowing that Jordan is now just one step away from interviewing Daniel Schmachtenberger. It will be one to behold.

[@ameyc2]

This interview is hurting me. I'm struggling and wasting a lot of energy trying to work through this. Not a good sign. Thank you Dr. Peterson for trying to maneuver. What am I missing?

[@DANJEDI]

Spiriual Optimism and building Promising Philosophy!! Good show 👍 Jordan Peterson x Jamie Wheal

[@wildolive7758]

It doesn't matter how many times intellectuals sliced reality, God's finger prints bleeds through.

[@jw6487]

What if I don’t want to slice reality. No blood just r e a l i t y

[@peterbelanger4094]

What "finger prints", you speak nonsense. Who/what is this "god" thing you speak of? A silly fantasy?

[@AIartBonaza]

😂 yea we all know where religion people slide their fingers …… guess god taught them 😂😂😂😂

[@johnowens5342]

​@peterbelanger4094 If you were as intelligent as Peterson or Dawkins, that would be a lovely conversation to have with you. Unfortunately your question shows you don't have the sophistication to navigate those topics.

[@lordmaddog6003]

@@peterbelanger4094 Believe it or not Woke and DEI are a finger print of God. The problem is they deny God and his set laws and as a result make his finger print their god. And any time you raise only a fraction of truth to the ultimate truth you get a hell like existence.

[@ameyc2]

Brilliant opportunity to share your experience with another intellectual, drawing out the conversation and the truths underlying thank you

[@LilaSilk]

Interesting conversation, thank you gentlemen. Wishing you all the best Mr Wheal.

[@yisraelmasiyaka7273]

I played this podcast before I slept. Thinking it would help soothe me to sleep while tiring my mind. It did the opposite. Bloody great video.

[@zmh8595]

This conversation is elevated by them both being in the same room.

[@Sparkinthedarktvnz]

Definantly.. through god I released addictions, thankyou Jordan I love this discussion for humanity!!

[@sarah.davis.55]

Thoroughly enjoyed this whole conversation and have quite a few more books that have been added to my book list! My biggest take away is a reminder to have faith that life is fundamentally good and that good cannot be reduced to your emotional state within this hedonic realm, because beneficial things can be painful and harmful things can feel pleasurable.

[@Erik_Danley]

Guest’s first utterance is 6:33 minutes in. So great

[@mrjohnnyjohnster3940]

I appreciate Dr Wheal having this conversation. While I don't agree with everything he claims, I was able to learn a lot about centre-leftist psychological thought through what he had to say.

[@carolspencer6915]

Good morning Jordan and Jamie Exactly all of this. Resonates a whole lot with me and my continued challenges of old and indeed bloody brand new. A wee bit unbelievable to me how many situations seem to be repeating both within the micro and macro levels of chaos right now. However strangely grateful for it regardless of its crazy repeating situations. In short. God knows I require a new mountain to not be pushed to jump from but to perhaps leap from and towards. After finally leaving my previous nursing post and starting a new nursing role only four weeks ago. I know this new challenge is not for me and sadly a bit of a waste of my time and energy. Soul destroying in all honesty. Anyways truly grateful for your again shared conversation. Sanity sensemaking brain gym, indeed. Thank you. 💜

[@johndunn5272]

Very raw and intelligent conversation. I think another perspective is too see the individual in terms of impacting issues upon them and how this wall drives behaviour depending on your status of health and age. Forming a determinism in individualised living that needs reliefs for sustaining to get a continuum, rather than ad hoc effects upon the living society.

[@rarieli77]

What a brilliant man God has blessed the humanity with!!! Thank you God. Thank you Jordan Peterson.

[@Cangaca777]

" - There's no free lunch, even if you are rich." Loved that!

[@tonyirar8448]

27:20 I LOVE YOU Dr. Jordan Peterson ❤

[@user-oz8ph1wg6c]

this is great. two brilliant people talking and discussing great topics.Please more of this soon!

[@MarshallDouglas-m2d]

I prayed to take the sins of this dark world as my own, low and behold it was so powerful and heart felt that it brought Christ back to life. God is good and he saw I was good.

[@j.j.hallhall4455]

God does not need a rebirth. We do.

[@DelaCarros]

Peterson is really intelligent if he read and mentioned for the past minutes, Mircea Eliade, a romanian writer and historian that has the most complex explanations for the human spirituality❤ amazing. thank you

[@mejirearigbe1174]

He has studied eliade in depth. If you read maps of meaning, he quotes the fuck out of him

[@joshkiernan1023]

Outstanding back and forth discussion

[@Vishfeast]

50:00 - If you had a desire for power, decision making revolving around it would leave wreckage, due to the lack of empathy mentioned above. So if a person always wants to leave you in a wreckage, rats showed that on unfair playing grounds (lost more then 33 percent of the time), makes the behavior not "playful" and the rats stopped playing. Showing that with free will, if your will imposes on others, they won't want to be apart of your reality. 55:00 - Jordan is talking about when people are accepting of others, they worked together and progressed faster. Also how much more significance people find in decisions when found together then by yourself. 58:00 - If you were to love your enemy and be okay with at least hearing their view would give you insight to the polar opposite opinion, if they were playing by the same set of variables. 1:00:00 - Talking about dark triad traits are 5 percent of this representation of people, that have amplified strength through social media platforms and being anonymity. Opens a portal of mass communication through these cracks of society and these negative behaviors. Which is manipulating behaviors, of people who wouldn't normally exude these traits normally. 1:04:00 - Jordan faces the opposite critic that is trying to impose that religion can be confining and also be taken over by these evil traits (which has happened in history). People can relate and push a narrative of these negative behaviors on religions due the opposite contrasts. He also talks about people with lower agreeable personality traits (woman tend to be higher on agreeableness), makes them very exposed to tactics used by dark personalities. It's becoming a massive problem for society due to the learnt traumas being formed on these people, due to the parasitic nature of the behaviors. 1:07:20 - With everyone having a flat playing field where no strengths are highlighted, in society, it can be viewed as offensive to call out "evil" behavior (irony), due sensitivity reasons. (ooooooooo). This creates a messy society that allows criminals to create mass confusion where it's impossible to be held accountable. Since you can't also call it out, how can anyone doing something bad be stopped. 1:10:00 - Also when you don't get stopped in your tracks when you are down a path of temptation, YOU WON'T STOP YOURSELF. (Tea boiling) People usually regulate to good behavior because it has a natural path of lighting others up and creating a positive sense of meaning derived from the reinforcements of expression that others project to you. 1:13:00 - Even though there can be competitive grounds with others, a part of the game is being able to win and lose. It's that playful aspect that makes the game itself attractable. But the game can be ruined when people involve manipulative pseudo behaviors to the game, that grow advantages and then the person justifies a obvious 1 sided game. (DAAAAMMMM). When people find out of manipulative tactics, they will lock onto it very fast and will hold you to that behavior. 1:16:20 - Talking about how in society there are people who bring superior analytical information to the world which is over saturated. Then if someone who comes forward with superior spiritual information should not be taken out. Jordan goes on how its necessary that both of these figures rise to balance each other out. You constantly need this balance and tilt behaviors in either direction when it tips to far on one side. 1:19:00 - Talking in societal decisions, when to take the direction to the other side when things become unbalanced. But now in corporate, CEO to Worker was 30:1 and is now 300:1 pay ratios (10 x uptick, when is it changing). Ideologies also becoming very out of touch and blown to much into direction. one? 1:20:40 - How should these ideologies be approached and when things become to in favor of one side? It's a problem if accumulation of goods becomes more and more scarce and 1 sided. Once you get wealth, that doesn't necessarily means that the person did good things to get that money and knows what to do with that money. 1:23:00 - Jordan getting spicy about how small scale experiments had too much impact on large scale models. And to have a model that accounts for all problems to be well thought out for long term consequence. It's very important to have polarizing approaches to any situation because you should not make policy on biased side of the equation. 1:25:40 - Psychological stability/growth and associated interactions that emerge from those principles should be taken with decision making. Even if you don't necessarily have a inclination to help others, it goes along the lines "treat others how you want to be treated". 1:27:45 - Talking about how greed can absolutely destroy you as a human. If you do not contain the separation of wealth/greed, there is always a price to pay for the source of that perceived wealth (nothing comes free in life, think about the consequences). 1:29:30 - Talking about if you find sanctity in a ideology that ultimately holds you accountable to be noble and good, Jordan can relate to those principles to that as a Christian. Some ideologies only talk about one side of a polarization and if the ideology at least outlines a positive, you don't necessarily have a complete understanding of all the evil. 1:32:50 - If you were to follow more of a intellectual ideology, at least you have to understand that a person who just seeking/projecting painful/negative outcomes, then its important to call them out on that.... (TRUEEEEEEE) Also going on the opposite spectrum if you were to support positive behaviors that hold people to a better standard of living then it brings you in alignment to the same beliefs as a religion.

[@rohanshah6882]

I've long wanted to see Jamie Wheal in a conversation with you since watching his videos on Rebel Wisdom.

[@evan7976]

Church; People uniting for and in the highest level of existence; Jesus!

[@AstorsonofEl]

My awakening happened 3 years ago🎉

[@JamesStorey09]

Jordan has 100% been shadow banned/limited exposure because the views have plummeted, yet the content has never been better. As always a brilliant discussion that has left me thinking. Thank you Dr. Peterson.

[@muskratdove]

Agree with you. The comments board was also very messed up for the first 12 hours. Comments and replies were disappearing in real time, and many were obviously trolls and spammers. There were only 250 comments in 12 hours, and one commenter told me that he could only see my reply through his notifications, but that he couldn't respond to me until nearly 24 hours later. It was really messed up. Fewer than 20% of the comments were really relevant, almost as though the algo bots were deleting the good comments and leaving the rotten ones behind. Even though I've been subbed for about 7 years, without notifications turned on, he never appears in my feed. With them turned on, he appears in my feed, but I never get notifications...And then there was the day that he didn't come up in the search at all...

[@ysf-d9i]

@@muskratdove that's not jordan being shadow banned, that's jordan's viewers being shadowbanned. I know I'm shadowbanned by youtube because western leftists will report anyone who doesn't conform to their ideology and when the reports pile up, youtube will automatically flag your account regardless of whether the reports are legit or not.

[@ysf-d9i]

honestly jordan's content has really deteriorated. It's also really bothering me that he's starting businesses left and right with his daughter, and then with his son... it removes power from what he says and lends strength to the wokies calling him a "grifter". Plus constantly trying to shoehorn in god/religion in places where it's incredibly forced is frustrating, because to a rational person, the moment you invoke god in your argument, it kind of loses all its power. Despite the fact that the ideas are really great.

[@JamesStorey09]

@@ysf-d9i well, I totally disagree with your perspective, I really enjoy the content and I am a regular listener. However in saying that, I’m not suggesting your opinion has no merit; just that I don’t share those opinions. I do have a query and a kind of case to make about your being bothered by him ‘setting up businesses with his children’. My brother has 5 kids and I am starting my own family at the moment. He and i own a pretty successful business together. Since becoming successful enough to have time to look around and think, rather than just ‘doing the work. We have found ourselves brainstorming regularly what businesses we could help the kids create going forward and as we become more successful it’s happening more and more. It seems that (Atleast for us) all we can do when we think long term is project ideas towards his kids (and hopefully soon to be my kids as well). We we are by no means as successful as Jordan, but how else better to continue the family progression and cumulative work than through the willing participation of your children? It’s very easy for us to see that the kids have interests and values that lend themselves to certain environments/businesses and us as parents may be able to share some helpful insight as they move forward (we hope). Because the wolves of the world often eat the young whole without help from their parents. Jordan is extremely intelligent, and entrepreneurial, so his advice from a business standpoint would be invaluable to anyone, especially his own children who he can help on a personal and more regular basis, with the added motivation of wanting nothing but the best for them. I wish I could get my kids to have discussions about their future with him, that’s for sure. But sadly my and my brothers kids have and will have us 😂😂, just trying our best). So in conclusion me and my brother are by no means grifters, we are grafters through and through. But I just don’t see how wanting a strong/‘good’ future for your kids, and helping them to create it is a ‘grift’? I can only summise that these people/‘wokies’ calling it a grift, have no children and simply do not understand what it means to have kids and want what is best for them because most ‘wokies’ are immature and self obsessed with a short term view of reality (in my experience with those types). So I think k Jordan simply doesn’t care what the wokies think, I know I absolutely couldn’t give any less of a shit myself 😂. On the ‘shoe horn in god’ side of things, I believe we are currently in a bit of a societal crisis. And when talking about it, it’s hard not to mention the bible/god, as for thousands of years, that is what held the fabric together as far as I can see, or Atleast in the Old Testament suggested ways to structure society very strongly. When he’s not discussing these things (which isn’t often because it absolutely is his field of expertise). It is barely mentioned, the most recent video posted about string theory… I don’t think mentions god once. Because it’s not relevant in a way he can apply his knowledge. But it’s nothing new for Jordan to be talking about god. Check out his first series about the bible stories on youtube (which he made at his own cost with no idea how popular they would be). But after they performed better than any of her form of religious content on the internet by a wide margin, he would be stupid not to have followed that up as it clearly resonated with millions of people, me being one of them. Well mate, I hope to continue our discussion, but my time in the waiting room is coming to an end 😂. Lots of love and GOD bless brother, may you bring success for your children as Jordan and I have, and not have people call your a grifter for doing so, when you do ;)! ❤️

[@steakmaiella]

Beautiful discussion! Thank you 🤍

[@HughDavison]

Lovely convo - Jamie brought out some great questions that I resonated with

[@crystalwaters9059]

Shibboleth ❤ adding new language to life is a beautiful thing. Thanks for sharing!

[@rdub4nd]

Great to see Jamie on the pod. 14:39

[@julielynn86]

Thank you Dr Peterson for another excellent video. 😊

[@CSPD3522]

Just now realized JPs suit coat has “CLEAN YOUR ROOM” printed all over it🤓

[@marcuschauvin7039]

i never noticed it, until this comment. you are right!

[@gerard6720]

This is Dr. Peterson's denouement, the clash of the Titans. Brilliant.

[@PopularDemand1000]

I think this interview shows Peterson at his best.

[@samtheman2319]

I'm just happy to be here man, why is that not enough?

[@maheentaahir1087]

I love you Socrates Thank u dr. Peterson ❤❤❤❤

[@michaelpease2103]

I've come to understand God as the universe itself without being limited by that. God is reality and truth while also being the fundamental order those things are built upon.

[@noxplay4906]

You just want to reappropriate Christianity without having any genuine faith. That's not going to revive people's spirit. We already have that, all of that Christ-consciousness BS, New Age spirituality with a Christian theme, progressive churches, etc. It's not doing anyone any good. We need ACTUAL religion. Actual spirituality. Like, the kind that is all in your face when you walk into a Catholic or Orthodox church or a worship service in an Anglican cathedral or in a traditional Reformed Presbyterian church. Hierarchy, humility, tradition, order, self-denial. That's what we need in this time of moral relativism, selfishness, hedonism and rejection of order in favor of chaos and unlimited freedom.

[@vivliomagos]

The best conversation you had in a while jordan

[@prescottmccarthy]

Thomas Campbells book trilogy “my big toe” provides an impressive answer to the blend between the god conversation and Darwinism. I’d highly recommend Jordan give it a read. Jamie for the win!

[@harrisonshields7084]

58:34 Good on you, Jamie Wheal, for trying to call Peterson out on how he’s allowing himself to be used by bad actors, and for offering a suggestion of how he could do better. Too bad Peterson wasn’t brave enough to engage you on those statements, but I know he heard them and will be thinking about it. Hopefully he will eventually take your advice. 😊

[@namelessbroadcaster]

Another militant atheist expressing the belief that it is all a game and you must persuade people to play the game you want them to play because you are a game master, and your whims are morality, and you are not a real believer. Peterson is sawing his own legs off. People thought he was a bridge from evolutionary psychology to Christianity and he's a black propaganda pusher from evolution dogmatists to Christians. The god of real believers is not a metaphor in their imagination. It is a placeholder for the creator of the universe and too big for their imaginations. They are playing the wrong game and slowly undoing their own progress. Peterson is slowing building his box of irrelevance to place himself in. He is declaring that God is the imagination instead of understanding that God is the great architect of the universe. The recent issues, including this one at 58:34 reveals that he is directly playing a game of feeding people what he believes is a metaphor for purposes of controlling their behavior. What he and this guy fail to realize, is that the people they hate have just as much moral validity as they do if they are right about morality not having a divine origin in the first place. He is now a 'right makes right' preacher. He is a completely different teacher now than he used to be, probably because he is now paid for by Zionists at the daily wire. He of course wants me unmasked here, so his Jewish handlers could make sure I never worked again and had to live in a cardboard box for this insolence. Peterson has turned, genuinely turned.

[@Chickadee6990]

Agree! “Can we try that?” was a brilliant opener to a beautiful invitation. He set it up with the vision of the crowd and Peterson’s influence with a subtle constructive criticism then calls him out with a direct ask to step up his infinite game. It was beautiful to watch and quite disappointing to see Peterson drop the ball. Maybe he has a blind spot?

[@WhyExpo]

Enjoying listening to you ❤

[@camdogtaek]

Enjoyed this discussion, going to check out his book Recapture the rapture.

[@abovemotivationx]

Always have Faith in the Creator...

[@benthebaptist]

Can't wait for the new book!

[@danielsuttles7452]

I am not yet, convinced that understanding immutable characteristic of the universe can be directly tethered to the creation of a good social contract

[@MarlaFernandezBenavides]

What we need is harmony. Not unity!

[@Dissocioo]

I love that JP quotes and brings up Mircea Eliade, brilliant man.

[@rdub4nd]

I really like "watching" Jamie talk

[@kimbrown419]

I can't wait for your new book!!!

[@CandidChums]

At last, a worthy opponent to Jordan’s hand language.

[@Chuzzlewits]

Can't help thinking this is a discussion about someone they both heard of but have never met. Faith is a gift- Jesus is a person. Many people could describe your parents- but you know your parents in a way none of their descriptions could comprehend.

[@Getit_gotit_good]

😂

[@glorycawley856]

Wow! Happy to have a listen 🎶

[@littlepickle824]

This is a great conversation and I can not digest this at 1 am and two Georgian cokes. Save )

[@SiphoMkhwanazi]

I am taking notes.✍

[@rampartranger7749]

Thanks. Great and engaging conversation. I keep wanting to jump in, but my mind is so slpw😂

[@JeremyBrigham-on4ip]

Hi Jordan, Looking forward to a long form interview with Francesca Geno. I hope with you soon.

[@tombecks5150]

Wheal did his best to get Peterson to admit at least partial responsibility for the far right crazies, a favorite tactic of the elite left. Jordan parried him with ease. Jordan's vocabulary has moved to a new level, now combining rigorous, cutting edge scholarship in his field with an ever deeper understanding of the wisdom of the ages. He's the most articulate intellectual in public life today. Wheal talks like an upper class technocrat speaking to members in an ESG corporate boardroom with Klaus Schwab at the head of the table.

[@dr.vitorcoletty]

😅

[@tomatom9666]

"Jordan parried him with ease." xD

[@tomatom9666]

I appreciate both JBP and Jamie Wheal, I listened to both for many many years, thanks to that old channel Rebel Wisdom that isn't active anymore unfortunately. They're both geniuses. It's true that Wheal is more centrist and sceptical of the right. I think that's good. It's great that the two could talk freely about this impass, especially considering the Daily Wire itself is explicitly right wing, that shows that the right is way ahead of the left in terms of allowing conversation. I think this criticism of JBP is absolutely valid.

[@meihui7767]

I agree. Wheal sounded quite elite leftist

[@everythingiswhat]

Came here to say exactly this. It started around the 1:00:00 mark, where he is trying to steer the conversation and setup Dr. Peterson, then the “risk” he’d “like to take,” is trying to corner Peterson into admitting that he has something to do with intellectually dishonest people, while he himself is being one. The hypocrisy is palpable. So is his arrogance throughout the entire conversation. Keep trying left. You have a long way to go to get out of your own arrogance and back to intellectual honesty. Maybe try admitting God exists, and go strike up a conversation with Him. Let Him put you back in your rightful place.

[@fritzco55]

If a government official asks your company to comply with something that is immoral and unconstitutional, then by all means, you should 100% NOT COMPLY. The real problem is that most people don't understand what is and isn't immoral and unconstitutional.

[@namelessbroadcaster]

That's because in atheism, nothing is immoral, and atheist dogma is now called science. A mere few months ago he was debating atheist and affirming a physically empty tomb. Now he's cast his lot in a large cabal of them for a job as game master or something.

[@NayumiNakamura]

this format really suits me

[@BeAlphaX]

Faith is the Answer...

[@ttqc290]

The dichotomy that JP articulates at the outset leaves out entirely either the Vedic worldview of the universe as a dance or the Taoist one of flow - so free of the need to guilt trip oneself with which JP wrestles eternally, notwithstanding his hero Jung being so attuned to these ideas

[@dimitriosfromgreece4227]

Jordan peterson 💚

[@Kinqsly]

Love it, keep it up.

[@ashymaamuhammad1467]

Dr. Jordan Peterson, I want to extend my deep thanks to you for all the enlightening insights I have gained from you on multiple levels ; intellectually, spiritually, and existentially . I’d also like to extend a firm handshake in appreciation for your discerning and sharp insights during the encounter. I’d like to add a brief comment to your discussion, particularly regarding the concept mentioned around 44:17 in the episode. Using the concept of Dabo Vahubo (দাবো বহুব in Bengali) to describe God’s creation might not fully align with the Islamic perspective. In Dabo Vahubo, the world is seen as a joyful, playful expression of the Divine, which can imply a lack of seriousness or purpose. However, from the Qur'anic perspective, the creation of the heavens and the earth is a serious, purposeful act, not merely a play or amusement: بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم "وما خلقنا السماء والأرض وما بينهما لاعبين" In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful "And We did not create the heavens and the earth and what is between them in play." (Surah Al-Anbiya, 21:16) Additionally, based on Platonic philosophy, the term Dabo Vahubo is not appropriate for the Monad or the Transcendent, which represent ultimate seriousness and purpose beyond mere play.. With my deepest respect. 🙏

[@mixingaband]

He could write a book on every one of these conversations

[@willstryker6904]

Cyndi Dale. I think Jordan could interview her. I’m working in her home. Reading one of her books. She’s the real deal.

[@GetYaWhat]

damn Jordan, you look younger every time I see you post a new video

[@YHWHsavesDotCom]

Riveting conversation 👏👏👏

[@IvanKosogorPodcast]

I think that Loki is the one in that movie that represents “shadow of Thor. And Thor, the rejected son, who is banned and sent to earth represents you know who. They are both actually the same representation. Just my opinion.

[@Eduvalerac]

Gracias ❤

[@Jason_gottx]

God is not reborn. God is Resurrected. It's a marvelous echo of the arc of Christ. As Christ was betrayed, crucified, & resurrected. So too Rationality/Enlightenment principles betrayed & crucified the Logos that gave rise to it in the first place. The reemergence and reintegration of those metanarrative structures is antidotal to so much that's going wrong today. Thank you, Dr Peterson, for your contribution to that process.

[@xman4161]

It's crazy to think we were this 🤏🏼 close to losing Jordan back in 2019-2020

[@AFringedGentianToEnnien]

I know. I can’t think of it without shuddering and longing to give him an enormous hug.

[@jandri1012]

The power of prayer must have been felt by him during that touch and go period. Soon after that Tammy openly speaking about how people's prayers pulled her back from the edge of death