I love how Nita Strauss asked Alice if they could add some of Kane’s Alice Cooper stuff to their set list. That shows a lot of respect for his era in the band.
@jdmcd38733 жыл бұрын
Yes and I wish they would do more and a little less of the overplayed 70s stuff.
@alm0003 жыл бұрын
Look up the nightmare returns tour you'll see why. :)
@micktoombs13133 жыл бұрын
Nitas style seems more like Kane’s than the original band
@poopsebeb3 жыл бұрын
I love the guitar work in “freedom”
@Metzok3 жыл бұрын
@@poopsebeb some great solos and songs on that one!
@80smetalrecyclebin3 жыл бұрын
Kane Roberts is the real deal. Smart and super talented songwriter and musician.
@hinjurock703 жыл бұрын
I always thought that he was just a douchey musclehead.
@seagullpoet3 жыл бұрын
The real deal ? Slow down bro.
@fernandes59863 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I was pleasently surprised.
@centaurus56763 жыл бұрын
LOL! Terrible guitarist!
@hinjurock703 жыл бұрын
@@centaurus5676 I wouldn't say terrible, but definitely mediocre.
@RonnyEvil1382 жыл бұрын
One of the most underrated musicians and down to earth human. Love Kane
@tonybrick20953 жыл бұрын
I messaged Kane on Facebook and he personally messaged me back. I was so happy and star struck. He rocks.
@80smetalrecyclebin3 жыл бұрын
we are huge Kane fans over here too Tony!!
@SteveOuimette3 жыл бұрын
What a fantastic interview. Kane is well-spoken, intelligent and fun to listen to. Great Alice stories, and a guy that doesn't sound bitter about the way the music world changes.
@philipkarovski2813 жыл бұрын
Kane is such a well spoken man and a very underrated musician
@WastedYears762 жыл бұрын
So cool that Kane is back with Alice in 2022!
@elizabethsullivan71763 жыл бұрын
"Constrictor" will always be one of my top 5 favorite Alice Cooper albums
@jameswilliams-zr8co2 жыл бұрын
..and "great american success story" is so under rated still !
@AudiophileTommy3 жыл бұрын
I could listen to Kane talk for 24 hours straight and not get tired ! Part 2 please 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
@Havanacuba19853 жыл бұрын
He’s a natural orator, great stories of the band
@kerrydavidsadler9803 жыл бұрын
Been a ALICE COOPER fan since the 70's, but love the albums that Kane was apart of . He really bought ALICE into the mid 80's heavy metal sound, helped bring ALICE back to live.
@eyellgeteven99283 жыл бұрын
I agree...I was not a fan of Alice's "blackout" albums (Special Forces, Zipper Catches skin, and Dada), although they have grown on me more in recent years, so when Constrictor came out I was happy. I loved the new aggressive sound, and I still like that album...like others have said, it isn't without flaws, but it's an in your face Alice that had never been heard before, and knowing somewhat about Alice's substance abuse problems and just the way he looked the last the world saw him before Constrictor, it was a very welcomed. The dude looked so BAD, like he was on the brink of death, and I'm pretty sure he was...teeth rotting out of his head, hair falling out, weighing like 80 pounds, looking like he should be in a zombie movie without needing makeup, etc. Then he comes out with Constrictor...he looked great health-wise, his stage show had exploded with gore and blood and special effects, and he had Kane Roberts, who was freakishly big standing next to Alice, and they put on a helluva show. I actually didn't care for Trash that much...it was a lot more polished, better written songs, etc, but I kind of missed the rawness of the Kane era.
@crusheverything44492 жыл бұрын
Raise Your Fist and Yell smokes Trash in every possible way!
@brentlohr44393 жыл бұрын
Dude seems to really have his stuff together.
@seagullpoet3 жыл бұрын
That’s why he wears shades !
@angusorvid88403 жыл бұрын
Great interview. Kane's assessment of how the metal scene ended in L.A. was the most spot-on thing I've ever heard. I was there. I played shred guitar for dozens of L.A. metal bands from the mid 80s till '91. My last club gig was at The Roxy. After that it was tough to even play a party because no one was interested in metal anymore. It was all grunge. The guitar stores and the clubs evaporated at the same time. I still played guitar but realized there wasn't anything I could do with my music and just focused on college and worked. I'm glad I was born and raised in L.A. because otherwise I would have been that guy who came here from New York only to find the scene was no more. Not a very happy experience.
@8829523 жыл бұрын
Those two albums were EXACTLY what Alice needed to break back out with in a big way. They were loud, powerful, angry, aggressive, and very "Alice". Kane's playing and persona added so much to the music, as well as the live shows. I was sad that they didn't work together more.
@kainhall3 жыл бұрын
@Alice Cooper scam
@katkenobi67653 жыл бұрын
@Alice Cooper reporting you for spam.
@chris-mariahellstrom53382 жыл бұрын
They play toghether now again on the Us Tour
@kingofdragontown96803 жыл бұрын
Love all eras of Alice, but Kane and Alice just had such a great chemistry.
@ravenbishop52322 жыл бұрын
Dragontown is one hell of an album
@jasonstallworth3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for posting this! It’s awesome to hear this piece of history! Kane defied the skinny, strung-out stereotype back then by being jacked and in shape, and he still looks like he takes great care of himself today!
@johnpatterson42723 жыл бұрын
'Constrictor' still is the quintessential 'come-back' album of all-time. I saw that tour in '87 and it was absolutely killer. It was like Alice Cooper had dropped 20 years off of his age. Kane Roberts added a heavy aspect to Alice' classic back catalogue, and Roberts' also brought a striking image to the live shows. Reminiscent of the original Alice Cooper Band of the early and mid-70s. Thanks for the great interview and video. The most clearly articulated and logical on the part of Roberts' I've seen on youtube.
@toddprater143 жыл бұрын
I seen them at joe Louis in Detroit with megadeth opening (peace sells album)…great concert was my first I was 16…..another great coop album is “from the inside” 1978…concept album being in a nuthouse…Alice don’t like it, I heard but I and many others love it.
@johnpatterson42723 жыл бұрын
@@toddprater14 "From the Inside" is a 'Coop sleeper album. It's got everything to be a classic. I lived in a small Canadian city when it was released and it received NO radio airplay. All I can remember of it was watching the "How You Gonna See Me Now" video on Don Kirschners Rock Concert, once or twice. A local record store did do a substantial in-store display, yet local teenagers had moved-on to New Wave and Supertramp.
@rikkifoxx1893 жыл бұрын
His album SAINTS AND SINNERS (1991) is a perfect record. Every song written by Desmond Child is a hit !
@guskuratlejr92283 жыл бұрын
I agree with you 100 💯 percent this man has a distinctive sound that they needed at the time my opinion.
@RonnyEvil1382 жыл бұрын
Best Kane Roberts Album!
@EthalaRide Жыл бұрын
I've been listening to Saints and Sinners NONSTOP for the past week since I found it. It's PERFECT. Listening back and forth from that and his self-titled '87 album just shows Kane can melt faces _and hearts._
@straydog24783 жыл бұрын
I love these interviews. I’m always amazed by how intelligent most of these guys are. Kane is a super humble dude given all credit and praise to Alice. Speaks volumes about him as a man.
@smashygodzilla32133 жыл бұрын
Raise your first and yell is in my top five albums of all time,epic
@AlmostReady5043 жыл бұрын
He is very humble. Saw him with Alice and it was a great show as always
@stevierachelle69303 жыл бұрын
Kane is one THE nicest guys I have ever met or worked with in the music industry! Also a VERY smart man, which is obvious from listening to him talk in this interview! #NoPainNoKane ;-)
@80smetalrecyclebin3 жыл бұрын
NOpainNOkane...love it
@mountbrocken3 жыл бұрын
Man, I am really liking Kane. I had NEVER heard an interview with him, oddly enough, being such a huge fan. But the wisdom that comes out of his mouth is truly amazing!
@slycooze1503 жыл бұрын
Omg this is one of the best interviews about shifting music scenes I’ve ever heard. Great guys!
@towahead2 жыл бұрын
I’m glad I listened to this interview. Roberts knows his stuff and clearly explains what the music industry was and is like.
@PulverizerA3 жыл бұрын
This interview is well worth watching.
@ZRockReady3 жыл бұрын
Raise Your Fist and Yell was an excellent album from start to finish and the best Cooper album to this day.
@thomasjrgensen3553 жыл бұрын
Am I the only one who thinks the drum sound is a bit weird? Which actually is as shame, since Ken Mary is kicking @ss
@rayjingloryproductions37703 жыл бұрын
I saw the "Fist" tour. AN AWESOME show as always. I have followed Alice since the School's Out days in 72. I have been to many shows. He is one of the MAIN REASONS I am a Rocker. I play Bass as well as do vocals. There is nothing quite like an Alice show. The Madhouse Rock Tour was amazing. I was there in San Diego Sports Arena the night they did the film. I have it on DVD. It was my first acid trip. WOW.
@something4everyone5843 жыл бұрын
😂😂😂😂
@anncarter70293 жыл бұрын
Kane is one of the nicest men in rock..extremely talented guitarist..writer and singer..We need more of him💗
@davidlambert51233 жыл бұрын
The Kane Roberts era of Alice Cooper is my favorite. He is a great guitar player
@vikingcathq2 жыл бұрын
Kane Roberts is fascinating to listen to, and the story of how he and Alice found each other and became close friends is extremely inspiring!
@trblemkr1d1063 жыл бұрын
I saw the Constrictor show that he's talking about and the opening band was...Megadeth....the original line up. Sitting in my room RIGHT NOW is a framed " Peace Sells " promo poster that is autographed by all four original members ! I got it autographed at Peaches records and tapes before the show . I also have 3rd row photos of Alice , Kane and the band at that show ! It definitely was my day.....
@shawnstarks17433 жыл бұрын
Kane is and was a Beast! Very physical player! That's a man that appreciated his opportunity.
@djmerchant3 жыл бұрын
Kane's album Saints and Sinners is still listenable today.
@mgmnfld31093 жыл бұрын
Saw Kane and Alice in St.Johns Newfoundland back in '87. Motorhead was the opening act. As a 17 year old kid, to say I was blown away is an understatement.
@maxxxmodelz40613 жыл бұрын
This guy might have one of the best attitudes towards the "change" and shift in the music industry that happened in the early 90s, even though it basically destroyed his career at the time. Most guys from that era who were not part of the new movement were left behind and destitute with bitter and negative views of it all. This guy seems to understand what happened and has accepted it as just bad timing on his part. Solid guy.
@SKRooU23 жыл бұрын
then again he is at the top of the food chain LOL
@randymoran673 жыл бұрын
Never had a career as a solo artist
@maxxxmodelz40613 жыл бұрын
@@randymoran67 I know, but he was poised to make that run. I believe he already had a record made and was ready to start pushing it when the landscape of everything changed.
@skyko3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, except it didn't happen that way. Don't get me wrong, Kane is a SOLID dude, but the record companies made a CONSCIOUS effort, an effort SO EXTREME at shunning every LA / New York musician and concentrating their signings to bands from the North West US. This is not disputed opinion, this is factual. (And there is a reason for that - which is surely debatable. My guess is that they kids were much more likely to roll over and accept ANYTHING they threw at them contractually - and 90% of them were heavily into drugs).
@maxxxmodelz40613 жыл бұрын
@@skyko Well that's the point I'm making. There was a gigantic shift in the music industry back then, and you're right there was a conscious effort to sign the Seattle bands because that was the sound they wanted to push. It was the polar opposite of what had been the status quo in popular rock music for almost two decades by then. Grunge was just another punk movement. You can also say that back in the mid-80's there was a conscious effort to sign any and all bands from LA too! In fact, many of those bands fully admit that they were getting signed left and right just as long as they were from LA, they were getting contracts back then. That was the era of Poison, Crue, LA Guns, Guns N Roses, and an endless parade of LA acts.
@BrianMcGilvray012 жыл бұрын
And he's baaaaack!
@k3digichaos3 жыл бұрын
1986 NIGHTMARE RETURNS coolest show ever
@alessandromorraco74203 жыл бұрын
Kane is so brutally honest how the music industry is and how people change their music taste! The 80s were a incredible time in music with all cultures of music ! This generation now should listen to that music when musicians played their instruments and the vocals were phenomenal!
@markwolfe66863 жыл бұрын
I love his guitar playing on constrictor and raise your fist.
@brettcooper38933 жыл бұрын
I've got some great never-before-seen Polaroids of Kane and Alice backstage around 1988 taken by Alice's assistant. One of them was used for the Alice episode of Behind The Music. It should be noted that, while Constrictor and RYFAY tours both set Alice up for the third phase of his career, it wasn't until 1989, when Trash ("Poison") was released that truly brought Alice back in a big way. Poison was the first hit song of his to be high on the charts for the first time in nearly a decade ("Clones" in 1980).
@synthvault3 жыл бұрын
True but all the real metal fans went nuts for Constrictor and RYFAY (I still think Roses On White Lace is Alice's best song) which gave him the credibility and renewed interest that set him up for a more mainstream crossover hit with Poison. I don't think he could have just swung in with Poison and had a hit. He was already in Metal Edge and other magazines based on those two albums so the pump was primed. Cheers!
@andyjett3 жыл бұрын
I was just a kid growing up listening to this man's both early albums! Still like those records and have them in my collection! Nice to see Kane's interview after all these years.
@roberttaylor12753 жыл бұрын
Raise your fist and yell WHAT A GREAT ALBUM..THANKs KANE FOR THE GREAT PLAYING!!!!
@arthurmurfitt76983 жыл бұрын
Was never a big fan of him but he speaks very eloquently. Thoroughly enjoyed listening to him talk about the old days and winds of change.
@seagullpoet3 жыл бұрын
Never liked Kip Winger, myself.
@PolyQuasi3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I only knew he was with Alice in the 80s and wasn't expecting much here. But he was very lucid and entertaining to listen to.
@cts6663 жыл бұрын
Great talk! Those albums Kane and Alice did were awesome! I really enjoyed listening to the talk about that.
@anabidingdude80793 жыл бұрын
I saw the both the Nightmare Returns and Raise Your Fist and Yell tours. The "Raise" concert, with Motorhead opening, is still one of my favorites of all time. Instead of the usual confetti in the balloons they release during "School's Out" they had fake blood in them. I came out of that show looking like I just walked away from a car accident! I wish they had recorded and released a video of that show somewhere, somehow. It was Alice and Kane firing on all cylinders.
@dond6683 жыл бұрын
I was at a AC tour in Phoenix and Motörhead quit playing after being rejected by the audience. He said “I know, you can’t understand anything that I’m saying”, and walked off the stage. The audience was there to see AC and had no interest in watching Motörhead. Phoenix is a bitch.
@mattharriss38352 жыл бұрын
that was a awesome interview. Loved Kane's talk on culture shift. I had the same talk to a friend of mine who owned a record store about 10 years agao about this shift. I had just bought a new iPhone 4 and said.. Dude... "it won't be long until this will be gone. You think Napster was an issue.... I can buy entire CD's for half of the cost and store them on this phone." He laughed but knew what I was talking about. Abotu 5-7 years later all 4 of his stores close and this was before streaming... you actually don't have to buy anything anymore... it's a monthly fee and everything is in your hands. I miss the days going through every CD one buy one looking at the songs and the artwork and then going home and listening to the entire CD (or cassette) while reading all the liner notes.
@williamshepley39233 жыл бұрын
My fav Alice period! Kane's guitar made the evil element punch you in the brain.
@Papa-eb1lt3 жыл бұрын
Nightmare returns blew my mind. Can’t count how many times I’ve seen it.
@riaranta31503 жыл бұрын
YES!
@GrouchoTM3 жыл бұрын
Saw Alice Cooper during the Constrictor tour! Was in 5th row so had a great view! Vinnie Vincent Invasion opened which I wasn't much into but when Alice Cooper hit the stage I was in awe! One of the best stage shows I've ever seen!
@kevinlane75553 жыл бұрын
I've never known much about him, but he is clearly a very bright guy and an astute observer....very interesting stuff here
@TheErik2492 жыл бұрын
As of September 2022... Kane Roberts on tour with Alice. The beast is back. Quote, Alice Cooper. 👍
@ialone74873 жыл бұрын
Very intelligent man. I thought he'd be a muscle head. My bad. Rock on Mr. Kane!🤘
@pfzt3 жыл бұрын
Fantastic channel! Thx for all these great interviews with many of my heroes from back then. Kane seems like a smart fun guy but let's not kid ourselves people, he looked really silly back in the day, even by 80s LA standards!
@metamorphone3 жыл бұрын
I have no idea how many times I’ve watched “the nightmare returns” but damn I love it
@jascatt3341 Жыл бұрын
What an insightful interview just awesome thanks for posting a picture of Kate I didn’t realize that was him than I saw The picture of him back from the 80s great interview!👍👍👍👍
@graveashes Жыл бұрын
Kane, you're an absolute legend brother!!! You are, as a guitarist, deserving of the hall of fame. Love your playing style brother
@cc_19833 жыл бұрын
Really cool interview - less familiar with this era of Alice. Gonna check out more. Intelligent interview
@jdmcd38733 жыл бұрын
The second half of the Raise Your Fist and Yell album was a masterpiece. Buy it.
@daleywhaley3 жыл бұрын
Fantastic interview, great to get his story and opinions on how things have changed.
@lastonanisland11113 жыл бұрын
Wow, what a cool and level headed guy. I had forgotten about those gun guitars. Great little enterview and I'm looking forward to more from Mr. Roberts.👍
@RetroToilet3 жыл бұрын
Sometime around 2004 I had a friend in college with green hair and who was really into punk rock. I went into his (totally chaotic and thrashed) dorm room onetime - he had a framed LP of the Kane album hanging on the wall (the album where hes holding the gun guitar). I'd never seen or heard of it and was like "what is THAT?" he replied in a very matter of fact way "that's Kane Roberts and he is our god."
@Augest-west Жыл бұрын
Kane is a great guy all around. Really insightful interview.
@elizabethhuie563 Жыл бұрын
I got to see him back with Alice in September 2022. It was an awesome show. Kane is awesome.
@shawnjimenez75073 жыл бұрын
Awesome interview. This dude rocks...
@aminostruth34943 жыл бұрын
13:00 nail on head! What a smart, in touch guy. 'You will own nothing and you will be happy...' - WEF on 'The Great Reset' and its completion by 2030.
@guitpizz3 жыл бұрын
Kool Kat. Best of luck to Kane. Hope to hear more from him soon.
@calcooper43 жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed that interview. Kane is a thoughtful guy. I could hang out with him.
@GP-ij5rx3 жыл бұрын
Could listen to this dude all day , straight talker no bull 🤘
@dancalmpeaceful39033 жыл бұрын
I saw Alice on that tour with Kane......damn fantastic show!
@riaranta31503 жыл бұрын
You god damn lucky son of a bitch 🤘🏻
@christopherhenson55093 жыл бұрын
God Bless Joe Louis Arena, We Miss It, And Will Miss It Forever😓
@PAKiller13 жыл бұрын
I miss Cobo Hall even more
@christopherhenson55093 жыл бұрын
@@PAKiller1 Ya, i can totally appreciate where you're coming from
@toma.48083 жыл бұрын
The few times ive seen Kane live with alice the man kicked ass. Solid and talented guitarist
@michaelgroom70603 жыл бұрын
Well spoken man. You have to have full respect for the honesty and as with all the people Alice Cooper has worked with......………...good honest people who love music for the right reasons.
@christineseldon39793 жыл бұрын
Huge fan since I bought the album killer back in the 70s, loved that sound. When I went too see Alice at the Ardwick Appolo with Kane on guitar kinda sounded like the old band with Michel Bruce and Glenn Buxton which was favourite. But I'm pushing 65 and still love it till death.
@kacperborowski31583 жыл бұрын
Great interview guys. Respect.
@cuddzilla3 жыл бұрын
Saw them in Memphis in 1986. The Vinnie Vincent Invasion opened(Mark Slaughter vocals)...one helluva show!
@Gekokujo763 жыл бұрын
My first concert was Jan 3rd 1988...it was The Screaming Trees opening for Alice Cooper and I was front row center. As if Alice Cooper's set wasnt captivating enough, there was Kane Roberts, just ripped with muscles and playing a flamethrowing guitar. I ended up catching one of Kane's picks and I still have it.
@chrisbrumbaugh99363 жыл бұрын
Great interview.
@TinnyHidge3 жыл бұрын
That surprised me. I didn't realise he was such a conversationalist. What an interesting interview. Imagine the great stories he could share over a beer! Very cool... 😃👍
@alm0003 жыл бұрын
My first taste of Alice and Kane was on Halloween night in the late 80's or early 90's when MTV play The Nightmare Returns concert and I was hooked! It was the most epic thing I'd ever seen and if you go watch it you'll see why. The set was amazing AF and it's still off the charts -even- especially by today's standards. Next thing you know I had Constrictor and Raise your fist and yell. I started finding old tapes of Alice's previous work and it was a culture shock to me considering it was all about metal for me and my generation. I really appreciated what Kane had done metalizing those old classics. At any rate that old stuff grew on me too but I am happy that the metal Alice never went away. Well that music impacted my entire life and I'm better for it, Thanks Kane for introducing me to Alice.
@stacymanning23933 жыл бұрын
Love Kane always, and his new stuff is great.
@rickmichael6263 жыл бұрын
What a pleasant surprise watching this video, great job Kane.
@marinag.28003 жыл бұрын
Great interview! Thank you
@clarkbono1893 жыл бұрын
Saw him playing with Alice in mid 80's. went to see Megadeth as the opening act. Alice show was friggin' AMAZING. pure showmanship. Kane was a roid head body builder, bigger than a semi truck, not th skinny heroin-chic you'd expect. great player.
@darktoadone50683 жыл бұрын
Kane nailed it on the head, dam good interview with him.
@Rlancup3 жыл бұрын
Clever guy. I was not expecting that much substance here to be honest but the next thing you know it looks like Kane Roberts is very much awake and lucid... Interesting bit of interview, thanks!
@80smetalrecyclebin3 жыл бұрын
Robert we became #woke from listening to Kane as well. Very smart and in touch guy.
@kenwilliams59333 жыл бұрын
I saw Cooper on Dec 31, 1986 in Miami with Kane and Kip Winger in the band...great show...
@markcatron89963 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this video. I looked up to Kane Roberts and his playing, was great hearing his epic story.
@JustinSmithPYRO3 жыл бұрын
Amazing interview 🤘🤘 miss the old days with kane with Alice.
@stevencrayn3 жыл бұрын
A great insight into the music business
@jeffgraham90893 жыл бұрын
Loved this.
@jamesmorgan20643 жыл бұрын
Great
@Colonel__Ingus69 Жыл бұрын
In 1985 the only metal on the radio was "Metal Shop" 2 hours a week on Thurs. Night at 10 pm. 2 years later 3 of the 4 stations in my market played it all the time and all the bands sounded the same. That's what killed it.
@frankstrysik15583 жыл бұрын
Good to hear from Kane. I never knew anything about him but I loved the albums he did with Alice and still listen to his solo record. Got to see him twice with Alice...great shows.
@jdmcd38733 жыл бұрын
He has more than one solo album
@ryantinker85983 жыл бұрын
Love the Constrictor album!
@jayteesgear3 жыл бұрын
Each segment you guys post on different artists gets better and better.
@jasonzaremba45513 жыл бұрын
SOLID DUDE ✊👍
@foamrob65773 жыл бұрын
Raise Your Fist and Yell tour and album was awesome
@Navgearhead2 жыл бұрын
Gonna be nice seeing him back with Alice....😊
@e.m.80943 жыл бұрын
I met Kane backstage in March 1987. Nice guy. He put me in a fake "headlock" when we posed for a picture. I specifically remember him drinking Heineken. LOL
@thedemonhunter8053 жыл бұрын
This was a very interesting interview Thanks I saw Kane perform with Alice Cooper during the nightmare returns tour in Winnipeg I don’t remember much I was out of my mind on magic mushrooms 🍄 And hash oil and lots of Jack Daniels and beer 🍺 But I do remember it being a incredible concert and I do remember watching Kane and he really impressed me with his guitar playing
@MrLifesavers13 жыл бұрын
I was lucky enough to be at that "Nightmare Returns" concert on Halloween 1986. Kane's killer guitar tone of the classic AC tunes basically saved Alice's career. We had seen the Special Forces 1981 cocaine fueled concert where AC was almost booed of the Joe Louis Arena stage. Great guitarist, great speaker, would love to hear Kane do a podcast.
@gwts11713 жыл бұрын
I saw Kane with Alice on the "Raise Your Fist & Yell" tour and again solo for his "Saints & Sinners" record. Both were very good! I got to talk to him after the solo show and he's a really nice dude, too, as this interview shows.