All FPV remotes can do better

Table of Contents:
00:00 - Intro
00:32 - A problem with controllers
05:20 - The minor mods I made
07:11 - Improvements in remotes we NEED
The best toothpaste on the market (no joke):
fpvcycle.com/products/spry-to...
Gimbal drop spacers: www.brain3d.co/products/radio...
Many people have mentioned the Jumper T20. I just saw that a day after I posted this video. My experience with Jumper radios has not been great but I also just saw the Jumper T20S which looks like it may be a good option. I'll try to get my hands on one to see. I do like the folding antenna and the heatsink on it but if the gimbals are small it's a no go. The Boxer is an absolutely solid product however. Zero concerns recommending it to anyone.
IMO The best gimbal ends on the market:
www.aliexpress.us/item/325680...
Stay tuned to www.FPVCycle.com. We've been working extremely hard on a bunch of new things.
▼Join the FB group for more discussion: FPVCycle - Kabab FPV
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[@harryhalfmoon]

Thanks for this video. So nice to see you still making such informative videos, some 6-ish years after I started flying FPV. You've given so much to the hobby. Thank you.

[@olafschermann1592]

You drive the development of new stuff! Thanks for trying out new things and video-documenting it for the vendors who hopefully watch and knock off some of your ideas!

[@Kabab]

I usually try pretty hard to get them to copy some of my ideas but they sort of don't until me or someone else spends the money to do that R&D and makes it popular. They have zero interest in attempting anything new. It makes no sense to them. If you have all the manufacturing potential in the world, all you need is something to make. You don't care about developing anything. You just copy whatever is popular at the time.

[@Goldtech6973]

Jesus Christ you opened my mind up to issues I have but didn’t know exactly how to diagnose. Good content sir!

[@KwongKan]

The size of gimbals doesn't really matter, what matters is the position of the datum, or axis of rotation. Issue is that with "small" gimbals they usually comes with short sticks, which result more curved arc within given "range" (like the ~44mm range at 6:47 ), having very different height/depth at the tip against the plane of datum, when compared with setups with DEEP datum and long sticks. While I like the idea of very deep datum (maybe some sort of virtual pivot "outside" the back of the case) and long sticks, effectively reducing the range (in terms of angle) but keeping the range (in terms of distance like again that ~44mm) the same, but then the idea of cutting off the top at 6:05 doesn't make too much sense...? I mean which would effectively just an offset of the radio in the Z direction, clipping into your holding fingers like badly made 3D model in Bethesda games. FYI, current user of Tango 2, with that Pyro gimals, running very narrow TH and Pitch throws - which inspired by a friend, whose Boxer w/ AG01's a minimum TH/Pitch throws.......... Wasn't convinced by the idea on paper, but felt at home when I tried his Boxer, ended up copying the setting on mine and found improved performance, at least on races (I too fly freestyle but never been great so YMMY)

[@Kabab]

Yes absolutely it's the position of the rotation point of the stick. I had a long speal about that with my blue printed design but cut it out because I figured it was too in depth for most

[@Vousie]

Exactly. Probably even with game controllers, if you put a nice long stick on it you'd still get a much bigger travel. Though I do think that the gimbals themselves do have differing amounts of travel. Imagine the travel distance between a game controller and this remote if you removed the sticks entirely. The game controller still has a smaller range.

[@maxi-trillion]

Excellent video! We need more content like this. Customizing your "cockpit" (radio/goggles) to personal preference is one of the most important parts of enjoying this hobby❤

[@Kabab]

DJI has a habit of using a wall to fit their goggle shapes....I'd love someone to fix the latest DJI goggles.

[@hallio111]

nice. we all need your input bro!

[@Crftbt]

Appreciate you sharing your valuable experience in something pilots invest so much in. :)

[@JacobScherer]

Man, this video made me laugh! Good to see you post again!

[@dronepilot260rc]

I have the boxer ELRS and can’t wait to start using it

[@Gamersden04]

Nice to see u Bob👋🏻

[@fiskiee_fpv]

Flew an x9d for years and moved to a qx7. Gonna fly the qx7 forever I love it.

[@Kabab]

Definitely among the best options

[@Dec1duousTree]

What does the QX7 do for you that the X9D does not?

[@maxi-trillion]

​@@Dec1duousTreeThe QX7 fits my hands better; as long as a radio is comfortable you can usually run any link you want

[@Dec1duousTree]

@@maxi-trillion Yeah, ergonomics on the X9D have been acceptable to me with Hall M9-R gimbals for thumbing. Could be improved by being less thick and bulky. I always thought of the x9D to be more feature rich than the QX7 but never felt one in my hands before, so I just didn't know... Thanks for the response.

[@maxi-trillion]

@@Dec1duousTree Good call on the upgrade. Your radio is probably perfect for you. I run the hall M7-R gimbal on throttle and the hall M7 gimbal on pitch/roll. I also have mismatched sticks Umbrella on throttle and Lotus on pitch. Throttle sits a bit higher as well

[@Atlas_FPV]

I had to do similar with my boxer, the gimbals were so high and uncomfortable so I fitted the LED kit to drop them 5mm and then raised the sticks 2.5mm, now it feels perfect

[@tshirtfactory07]

Baaaaaaahhhbbb! So great to see you making content again!

[@kaijupower]

I hope radiomaster is listening. Having deep gimbals for me is a must. I did a similar mod to my boxer, coming from a QX7 with hall sensors. Gimbal size and placement are probably the few things Frsky did right.

[@GioFpv]

where we can find such spacers for the Boxer?

[@olafschermann1592]

3d print yourself.

[@GioFpv]

@@olafschermann1592 best reply ever for sure 👌

[@LehtusBphree2flyFPV]

@RADIOMASTER read comments on new product 7mm deep LED rings

[@mcronfpv8736]

that's funny, I never thought about this before, but recently I replaced my Dji gimbals with AG01 because one of them died, and after taking the Dji gimbals out, I was holding them in my hand and thumbing... thinking wow that feels good somehow, but didn't realise it was because of that reason

[@Jandodev]

The force feedback would be really really cool!

[@taxigalaxi]

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. My first remote was a Dx6i and it was a struggle because I have fairly small hamds. At some point i got the X9 lite and I instantly enjoyed it more simply because I could use it properly. Going to take a look at modding it too.

[@autonoob]

I would really love a modular controller where the gimbals, buttons and switches can be moved around. And the brain, screen and battery bay is just a separate brick that’s plugged in. No more complaints about batteries being too small or screen placement. I think I would like the gimbals right at the edge and tilted outwards a bit.

[@MysteryD]

If they can do it with video game controllers, why not with RC controllers? I like it.

[@gus8378]

Maybe we can do that we hardware hacking. I’d love to see that done with a DJI remote 2

[@gus8378]

Would also be cool to have an external (wired) antenna since I fly from inside the car. The antenna could then be placed on the dash or routed to the roof or something. Sitting in AC on a comfortable seat and listening to music while flying is the best

[@MysteryD]

@@gus8378 that's already possible. Usually just a simple ufl to sma mod inside the shell of the controller. Oh, and I agree. I also fly from my car, with music playing

[@gus8378]

@@MysteryD I wonder if there’s any added latency or range loss with a long antenna cable like that

[@MnPaul1]

I like my Paladin with the fat grips installed. The inductive charging is nice and the internal antennas work great.

[@gandaulf_fpv6925]

I really like the prototype.

[@ferocious_r]

Shit, man, what an eye opener! Thank you!

[@lday07]

Dropped mine 7mm, works a dream

[@baggszilla]

Thanks Bob!!!

[@RoyceMeredith]

Oh man. The idea of dampened sticks is really interesting. I may have to play with this idea.

[@Kabab]

It would really change the way we all look at radios and fly

[@DriftaholiC]

Look at how Virpil controls does the cams for their flight sticks. I have a set and WISH I could have their no center ava sim cams on an FPV gimbal. In a heartbeat I would buy a gimbal with the warBRD cams in it. The non linear force makes it far easier to feel where you are in the stick and makes sense because we don't use linear rates. The soft or no center detent reduces that notch you feel when trying to pass through the center and makes sure it never shows up in the footage. Form wise the Tango 2 is the closest to perfection for me.

[@JumpeFurby]

I have the tango 2 and the tx16s. And as newton once said: the greater the mass the greater the force of attraction!

[@Kyosanym]

I miss these presentations.

[@leonardterlevic4765]

I've been flying with the jumper t lite and it's just perfect for thumbs

[@Kabab]

Thumbers have a lot more choices. You guys have much more latitude with a human hand to hold more things.

[@leonardterlevic4765]

At first I was worried from everyone saying that If you want to fly well you have to use pinch or hybrid, but I'm seeing many experieneced pilots fly amazing with thumbs.

[@Kabab]

@@leonardterlevic4765 I personally cannot fly thumbs only and can't understand how anyone does but there are fantastic pilots that thumb way better than I ever could fly with any finger's. Realistically I am about 85% thumbs and 15% index finger but I can't fly well without the stabilization of the index finger.

[@MadDragon75]

I love my Radiomaster TX 12. it's basic, perfect for a thumber like myself.

[@kaskalo2]

I have cheapest controller, (planning to go for Boxe) so i have no experience. But listening how you explained it simply makes so much sense 🤷‍♂️

[@Kabab]

Cheap or expensive really doesn't matter these days. I just got this ultra cheapo emax whoop controller. The dimensions and gimbal travel is so amazing I would make it my primary if it had a module bay. The boxer is a good controller for sure but it could be better if they paid attention to some meaningful details. It's still the best controller on the market imo

[@DJMina23]

Love your video bro thanks!! I only have the QX7 and it does feel really big and clunky with unnecessarily big switches. I tried so hard to like the Radiomaster Zorro (which I bought for my girlfriend) but that now felt so small and the gimbals were so short because I like to pinch/hybrid. I'm yet to try the Boxer but I feel that it would be ideal for me because it looks like the sweet spot between the QX7 and the Zorro.

[@KOrnhOliO1]

Bro, I hated the long switches too. So, I found those switches cheap on Horus website and ordered 4. I went into the radio and swapped them all out to the short switches! SOOOO much better now. I've always like the QX7 optional hall effect gimbals and tried 3d printing about a dozen different stick ends off Thingiverse until I found the perfect ones for me. Sure, it's a little chonky, but it's also quality and works great. So until a radio maker comes out with something that is really, really great, I'm staying put. It makes no sense to me to have all of these different radios when I know from just looking at them they're not gonna be something I like.

[@Greg__K]

Glad you’re focusing on the ergonomics of radios. I’ve been pretty disappointed with the direction of companies in this regard.

[@Kabab]

They just keep making the same garbage over and over with no recognition of any actual issues. It's sad and a waste of good resources.

[@gus8378]

@@Kabab I’d love to see a release of an FPV Cycle radio.

[@Kabab]

@@gus8378 me too. Unfortunately I don't have that much money or influence

[@KOrnhOliO1]

@@Kabab There new Pocket radio has very new thinking, ultra small size and probably tiny gimbals, but damn if it doesn't give use some of the features we want built in, and so portable!

[@Kabab]

@@KOrnhOliO1 the features are great but they also don't matter if the gimbals are microscopic and the grips are huge and wide so only a thumbers can grip.

[@OdysseusVrakas]

I can tell you had fun editing this. Lmao

[@TheParadigmShiftTV]

Have you seen the Radiomaster Pocket which just dropped today? Definitely less chonky and more in line with your prototype.

[@Kabab]

I just saw it this morning when others were posting about it. Unfortunately it's about as thick with smaller gimbals so it's a no go for me

[@mcronfpv8736]

interesting thinkings. I still fly with the DJI Remote1 modded with the AG01 metal gimbals. Great feel, and having my freestyle quads with only one antenna (that barely protrude) and one less component really makes a difference on the time spent fixing shit, after 100 or 1000 crashs :D

[@mcronfpv8736]

also I have a ridiculus amount of quads and the saving of an RX in each one adds up (well tbh if I was really trying to save I'd have just 4 kwads lol)

[@butterflyfpv]

Gimbals are a really important topic! Especially for us racers. The gimbals on my Spektrum DX6 G3 are so much better than the super expensive CNC gimbals on my Radiomaster TX16S. I think it's because the spring force of my DX6 G3 tends to increase towards the outside. And in the middle it's smooth. With the Radiomaster TX16S it is exactly the opposite. The spring force decreases towards the outside (felt) and the middle is extremely bumpy..

[@Kabab]

Variable spring rate would be amazing too. That would absolutely work.

[@butterflyfpv]

@@Kabab Yes! That would be nice too! I hope the manufacturers listen to the community.. And that this topic is becoming better known in the community thanks to you! By the way, the ends of the sticks are also an important topic, as you say in the video. I think the new thumb grippies style stick ends made of some type of resin are great! Much more grip and no more broken skin on the thumbs..

[@professorbiohazard4271]

They solved that in car suspension with progressive springs. Wonder how hard it would be to find some progressive springs that fit radio gimbals

[@butterflyfpv]

@@professorbiohazard4271 Interessting!🤔

[@PilotCentil]

good

[@tk-maker]

I applied some damping grease (the one Chris Rosser used as vibration absorber for frame) on gimbal and make it less noisy and i can feel some "drag" during flight.

[@Kabab]

Yeah that's a nice addition however it sort of does the opposite of damping in the sense that it's difficult to initially get moving and once it starts sliding, the resistance is less. We need the resistance to increase as the stick moves faster, not more freedom once gliding faster. Damping grease does make it ultra smooth however which is nice. Some sort of grease is usually used on most gimbals I've taken apart.

[@rowannadon7668]

Maybe you could couple each axis of the gimbal to some sort of very small oil damper, I’m not sure if such a thing exists that is commercially available though

[@Kabab]

@@rowannadon7668 yeah I think that would work and is the most direct way to do it. Could maybe even find a small RC car damper that would work and fit.

[@marc_frank]

​@@Kababthe rc car oil dampers usually leak but idk if there are air ones

[@olafschermann1592]

Still love the Turnigy evolution. Perfect grip, large display. As i am no longer use AFHD2 it would be a try worth to mid it to ELRS. If i break it i will use it as seldom as now.

[@olafschermann1592]

As of a non opentx platform i hope i can find any serial out und try to hardwire it to a tx module. No fancy dialogues or mixers.

[@Kabab]

Wow that's quite old. I remember when that thing was rumored. Was the hottest rumor around.

[@MCsCreations]

Pretty interesting mods, Bob! Thanks! 😃 Please, tell your wife you can't disappear from yt for that long! 😬 Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@KcCake]

The new pocket radiomaster radio look really similar to that print you made. Only difference is it doesnt use full sized gimbals and uses 18650.

[@Kabab]

I JUST saw this and asked the radiomaster engineer about it. It looks thicker than the boxer and with smaller gimbals but maybe that's just the picture proportions. Just because the gimbals look smaller doesn't mean the range is smaller. Hopeful this is the compact full featured radio we all want but probably just another random product that doesn't address any issues.

[@KcCake]

@@Kabab yea. Looking forward to it though considering how cheap and compact it is. I hope there is a way you can externally wire a bigger battery since the 18650 seems like the biggest setback for me.

[@Kabab]

@@KcCake you don't need more than that 18650. It'll already last probably 30hrs or more with good cells. Unfortunately the controller has smaller gimbals however

[@FluffRat]

@@KcCake 2x 18350 on the Zorro is a bit annoying, but 2x 18650 seems fine? I guess you could try a 21700 mod.

[@TurtleModeFPV]

I tried out some 3mm to 6mm stick extensions for a while... I liked the feel, but they were giving me carpal tunnel syndrome after an hour in the SIM lol... Wonder if adding the drop would fix the wrist strain I was having 🤔...

[@Kabab]

You can't just extend the sticks. They become too long and hard to reach the ends then. Also more difficult to modulator with sticks that long. Need to drop the gimbal in to get that to work out

[@FilipRadelic]

DJI FPV RC ("v1") has the exact same size and mounting hole pattern for gimbals as Taranis, so you can fit Taranis gimbals in it if you like them more.

[@Kabab]

Yeah I'm aware of that. Not too sure about the wiring but probably not hard to figure out either. Just too much work that I didn't want to deal with. But if I'm forced to switch to a different protocol then I'll put in a bit more work

[@FilipRadelic]

@@Kabab I get that, I use DJI RC2 despite its ridiculously tiny gimbals just because I don't want to have another receiver+antenna on my quad when O3AU can do the job.

[@Kabab]

@@FilipRadelic yes absolutely agree with simplification and I would pay a pretty penny for it. Unfortunately the original DJI FPV radio doesn't work with the O3. The new controller is just unusable. I refuse to deal with it

[@gus8378]

Cool H frame back there. I hope it becomes available for purchase, I’ve been hoping for a TF2 replacement that can fit the O3 while being lightweight and compact. I’ve always felt like H frames are the most efficient since they can have less carbon than X frames, and have shorter arms to twist and vibrate.

[@Kabab]

Yeah definitely the most efficient however not the most durable and really hard to deal with the twist noise.

[@blueskyfpv]

I recently got a Radiomaster Zorro. The radio itself is really well built - can't knock that. However, I just can't get it to feel comfortable in my hands. Everywhere that seems comfortable for my fingers has a switch in the way. I've always wondered why the bodies of radios aren't slightly curved like an ergonomic keyboard.

[@Kabab]

This is unfortunately not uncommon. Radios shouldn't have super specific designs either because the way everyone holds the controller is probably as unique as different fingerprints. In general, there are a few proportions that could be followed for an overall good fit for the vast majority. I cannot understand why no company seems to want to pay attention. I assume it's because it's hard to market something like, 'actually made for human hands'

[@greedfox7842]

haptic feedback would be sick, but the actual implementation would take an entire team of engineers.

[@enkayFPV]

we didnt even need audio. just the text man. haha good stuff

[@Pccbwo]

I play games with high dpi and fly with high rate. I found I'm never able to use most of the throw of a gimbal, I thought I need smaller remote, but my behavior didn't change using jumper tpro. Seeing you dropping the gimbal that might solve my problem.

[@Victor90NOR]

you might like the new jumperr t20

[@Kabab]

Jumper has a habit of making poor decisions in various aspects of the design which kinda ruins the radio. I'm hoping this is different. We'll see.

[@GioFpv]

Are the radiomaster leds enough for make them as spacer instead of the 3d prints? Anyway able to tell how many mm thick they are?

[@Kabab]

I recommend no more than 7mm or you'll need to modify the back of the casing a tiny bit. I show this in the video. It's also timestamped in the description

[@jtcustomknives]

I have been thinking about designing a radio as my favort one is like you white one and yeah it’s chunky. I opened it up to replace a switch once and yeah it’s mostly empty inside.

[@chrisbee5481]

Edit: The radiomaster pocket just came out. I had to get it for so little money. Needed a smaller portable RC. I'm waiting for the new Jumper T20 reviews. Gal will be making one soon. The T20 looks like a smaller Boxer. One or two stores are selling it already, but apparently jumper is upgrading it right now. Thats why the reviews are delayed. Lets see how small it is and competitive to the boxer. Gal says it actually makes a good impression.

[@Kabab]

Looks interesting but jumper has a habit of making dumb choices that significantly impact the resulting product. Hopefully not. We'll see

[@dawgdude6472]

The pocket has piqued my interest, especially for the price.

[@Kabab]

@@dawgdude6472 Looked at some close up reviews. The gimbals are a LOT smaller and cannot be dropped in due to battery placement. The radio is also not really suitable for pinching with the large and wide backside grips like that. Price is super attractive but unfortunately I'm not even a little interested and would recommend putting that money towards a boxer.

[@ridewithandrei]

i had this and i installed the cnc gimbals and leds which lowers the gimbal but the stick would hit on the case. I ve read people saying that this radiomaster has jitter. I found it really difficult to use full size gimbals as i have small hands.

[@Kabab]

The radio is too thick. If it was thinner, small hands would have a much easier time with the gimbal.

[@ThomasKropf]

How do you call the parts that lower the gimbals? I have a hard time finding anything😢

[@Kabab]

The spacer ring? It's printed from Brain3D.com

[@ayoaina_fpv]

Cool. Thanks. So, what do you think about their newest radio, the ‘Pocket’?

[@Kabab]

Looks cool but I just saw it this morning when people started posting questions about it. Looks like it has smaller gimbals unfortunately

[@flipfpv]

The boxer is the best I've tried so far and I've tried quite a few radios. I do still feel like I have trouble reaching the inside upper corners so I might give this a try. Do you have a link to the STL for that mod? BTW, something similar to the fluid heads on video tripods might work for the dampening on gimbals, but I bet it would be expensive to make and probably chonky too.

[@Kabab]

Brain3D has the file. He made it but you can probably find something similar on thingiverse

[@flipfpv]

@@Kabab Found one and it's 7mm drop. Search for thing 5916643.

[@flyinryanfpv]

Are you talking about the type of dampeners like on the PS5 controller? The L and R top buttons that give you feedback?

[@Kabab]

Exactly, that would be amazing but also having electronic control like that would be a whole lot more amazing than what I think is good enough

[@Steady_FPV]

I saw your video this morning. Then I saw the Radiomaster Pocket a few minutes ago. I came back to check out the 3D-Print of your own design because the pocket somehow reminded me of it. The formfactor seems similar. But no fullsize gimbals... so meh. Will you check it out anyways ?

[@Kabab]

I JUST saw this and asked the radiomaster engineer about it. It looks thicker than the boxer and with smaller gimbals but maybe that's just the picture proportions. Just because the gimbals look smaller doesn't mean the range is smaller. Hopeful this is the compact full featured radio we all want but probably just another random product that doesn't address any issues.

[@jlolment]

Deeper gimbals sound like an amazing mod. Is there any potential from the controllers in your collection for printing a more ergonomic case and transferring over electronics?

[@Kabab]

Yeah the issue is the work needed to model and package the inside of any given controller. It's a lot of work to retrofit. I can't do it but I'd support anyone that can.

[@chrigu70]

I wish i could give more than one like!

[@marlin-fpv]

You should check out the flysky EL18. 5k resolution full size gimbals and all problems solved from the NV14. Ergonomics is insane on that radio.

[@Kabab]

I have that radio. It has literally the worst ergonomics of any radio that has ever been made or dreamed of. Fits zero human hands. There are still some that like it but the vast majority don't and the product did poorly.

[@marlin-fpv]

@@Kabab Well, prime example of different perception. I love the ergonomics. NV14 did poorly in terms of getting support and power supply of the external module. Display was crap in daylight too but for the EL18 it's all fixed. I love it!

[@Kabab]

@@marlin-fpv it's not a bad radio, it just doesn't have a wide user base because it's so specific to how it gets held.

[@djs134]

Have u tried the jumper t20. Looks very interesting

[@Kabab]

Looks promising but unfortunately the back grip of the casing is a wide bulge. This wide bulge is good for thumbers but just doesn't work for pinching at all. It's super slippery. The gimbals appear huge because of the large opening for them but their range is actually even less than the default boxer as far as I can tell from various videos. I do however love the heatsink on the radio and wish the boxer adopted that instead of a little fan. Overall the T-20 looks like a good radio and I'm just guessing on my assessment based on the various videos on youtube already. It would be nice to hold and confirm.

[@RcReviewsLt]

So new RadioMaster Pocket Radio Controller might be the one what you want :D

[@Kabab]

Unfortunately it's just as thick and the gimbals are smaller. They also cannot be dropped in. A nice radio but not useful

[@RcReviewsLt]

@@Kabab So JumperRC T20S is the one for you

[@Kabab]

@@RcReviewsLt I actually just contracted them. Looking forward to it.

[@NOIZYB]

are the spacers on thingy verse

[@Kabab]

yeah there's one that works on there. It's not thick enough to give you the full drop but you should be able to edit it. I asked Brain3D to edit and print it for me. You can also contact them for it if you need a printer anyway.

[@gus8378]

Would be cool if there was a similar mod on the DJI remote 2 to lower the gimbals. Then making them longer might solve the issue

[@Kabab]

There is a way to shove the ag01 into the DJI radio 1 but it's still gonna be chunky and not have full range gimbals.

[@Toddsnightmare]

Now with the new radiomaster pocket the gimbals got even smaller

[@Kabab]

Right. I just saw that this morning. Looks like it's thicker and the gimbals are once again smaller which keeps with the theme of manufacturers battling on who can make the smallest gimbal for some reason

[@Toddsnightmare]

Ya it seems that way I'll stick with my zorro awesome sale on the site BTW I now have 3 toothpicks with your frame and motors love it

[@rasmus80g]

Ohh I hear you whanted a flatter transmitter for so long. Maybe i will try to just drop the gimbals with a spacer as a next best thing for now. Looking into a boxer but first like to know more about the upcomming jumper t20. Radiomaster pocket is also compelling but switches seams bad placed for a pincher...

[@mariomedina311]

i have mobility and pain problems on my fingers, a small gimbal really helps a lot, i use the commando 8, its not a very nice radio, but it fits well. Manufactures are moving away from small gimbals and im gonna suffer for that.

[@Kabab]

Then you're gonna love the new DJI controller. It's about the size of a Nintendo switch controller. I'm sorry for your condition but most people don't have that sort of issue. I too actually have mobility issues on my right thumb as a result of a bad car accident but not enough to hinder gimbal use

[@badfourlife]

Huge commando 8 fan(thumber) I ordered a couple extra to have as spare if gimbals go bad, I use the longest sticks available for a bit more resolution

[@maxrutherford2101]

Yup. To all of it. I personally am exclusively a thumber, but always printed a spacer to lower the gimbal 4 millimeter, always removed the stock stick ends, cut down the posts, and threaded on the Frsky Vantac stick ends. Those are thumber only stick ends, but the point is the same. You want full range, and you want comfort, and you don't want skyscrapers for control sticks. For dampening, a small 1102 or smaller motor shorted out is an effective variable damper. The harder you try to spin a burnt (shorted) motor, the resistance in being able to physically spin the motor increases dramatically. Spin it slow, you can get it spinning. Start trying to spin it very quickly results in rapidly increasing rotational resistance. Just saying, we all have burnt motors laying around and they can be approached for use as a variable damper. Space constraints being the real limiting factor.

[@Kabab]

The motor damper method is the best but figuring out how to fit it in there and attach it to the movement is the hard part. Dropping gimbals and having shorter sticks that still have good range is excellent for thumbers

[@mgbfpv]

What about the fresh release of the new radiomaster radio? Radiomaster Pocket. Small gimbals but small form factor.

[@Kabab]

I JUST saw this and asked the radiomaster engineer about it. It looks thicker than the boxer and with smaller gimbals but maybe that's just the picture proportions. Just because the gimbals look smaller doesn't mean the range is smaller. Hopeful this is the compact full featured radio we all want but probably just another random product that doesn't address any issues.

[@mgbfpv]

@@Kabab released just a few hous after your video, maybe it's a signal. Lol.

[@Kabab]

@@mgbfpv unfortunately it looks like the gimbals are a fair bit smaller

[@rainbowrunner1136]

Hi.. I currently purchased radiomaster pocket after owning boxer for travel. Boxer sticks are good for me, i have tiny hands. But pocket is so off that i struggle with it most of the time. I was about to this mod on pocket with spacer. I wanted to know if this will help with precision, like how i have in my boxer? Please advice

[@Kabab]

I haven't seen the pocket in person. I don't know if the casing has space to move the gimbal in. You would need to assess that and also draw the spacer to be printed because I think it's a newly designed gimbal.

[@rainbowrunner1136]

@@Kabab hello 👋 so i have found a stl of the spacer for pocket. But my question is around ergonomic. Does lower gimbal position brings more control or precision with respect to stick travel?

[@Kabab]

@@rainbowrunner1136 It seems you haven't fully grasped what I'm trying to present in this video. If you were to try and drive a car where the steering wheel only would rotate 15° to the left and 15° to the right such that 15° to either side would be full lock steering, it would be impossible to drive the car because the steering wheel would be so sensitive. This is essentially what we are doing with our throttle sticks. 1/10 of a millimeter movement can equate to a full rotation on either axis sometimes. If you spread that rotation movements across 3 mm of movement, it is now six times easier to control. So it's respect to your question of precision, yes it will be easier for humans to control the craft

[@mikebergman1817]

Roogie! Did you get married dude? I ended up with a Boxer, with 7mm spacers too. One thing I also did for ease of transport, was get a 2.4ghz Bardpole and relocate the antenna inside the radio case. Instead of fiddling with the external antenna. Great vid!

[@Kabab]

Yes married about a year ago

[@MCsCreations]

​@@Kabababout a year ago? Oh boy... You didn't forget the anniversary... Right? 😬

[@tweekFPV]

👍🏻👍🏻

[@able_archer_]

Flysky Nirvana is... nirvana for thumbers. Best non-$130+ gimbals in the business too

[@prottentogo]

I just got the Boxer and was highly irritated by the stick travel compared to the Tango 2. I put both stick ends to the same length (quite long) and measured the travel with a ruler. The stock gimbals of the boxer had 8mm less than the Tango. Also the up and down travel was less than left right (you can tell by the ring when you look straight down with one eye). But for the record: "when it ships it does not have full travel gimbals" means that the outer shell is preventing stick travel and letting them in changes that? Or are you only talking about your hands not being able to reach everything?

[@Kabab]

Because how variable the casing around the gimbal can be, we can't go by gimbal diameter or anything like that. We need to measure the range of the stick from end to end on either the X or Y axis when the stick is at a comfortable height for you. I consider anything 44mm and above to be full range. Aside from the X9d and qx7 from way back when, I have never held another radio that ships with actual 'full size gimbals' even though they claim to........that just changed however when I received the EMAX whoop controller which is truly a marvel. Unfortunately it doesn't have a module bay. The link to it is in the video description.

[@prottentogo]

@@Kabab I did measure the stick from end to end. The mentioned ring only played a role in the second complaint I tried to formulate.

[@Kabab]

@@prottentogo the boxer does not have full travel gimbals by default. Nowhere close to it. Neither does the tango 2. The default height sticks on the boxer don't come anywhere close to the plastic ring around the gimbal. After my ~9mm drop, the sticks now just graze the ring. I gained about 14mm of total travel end to end but I shortened my sticks from where they were originally and have 11mm more travel than default.

[@prottentogo]

@@Kabab Let me get this straight: You're saying the casing of the Boxer interferes with the gimbal's travel? That'd be crazy. When I had it apart it looked like the gimbals internal stops (that you could adjust) are responsible, not the shell.

[@Kabab]

@@prottentogo not the internal. The ring on the external top half of the controller casing. I've dropped my gimbals about 9mm. The resulting stick travel just grazes the entire ring. It's the maximum travel that the casing of the controller will allow for before you're just knocking into the casing all the way around

[@JPREEDY77]

I'd like it to feel like pressing the brake pedal into the floor. Where you can't just slam bottom. I think there is already a system for this kind of thing. I don't know what it's called but would be a flywheel on silicone or ceramic plate with an offset pin and wound spring. I've seen the mechanism as an input dampener or in centrifugal clutches. In a sandwich configuration would work just like the limited slip diffs in cars. With some careful work I think a think ceramic plate dampener may be logical. I wonder what could be done to apply the input pressure toward the plate to make it feel more responsive. More aggressive input = More Dampening. There is gearing in clocks that can do it, I don't know where their wizard is that steals my ideas but I need a Chinese/Swiss Radio, with ELRS 2w with a fan that sounds like a turbo diesel, extra cheese and a boob model to sell it to me!

[@techspy2008]

Drone Wars!

[@pablogonzalez4567]

the damping the stick is something that would be great for smothness, i did put a lot of filtering on the rc in betaflight and that gives some smothness but it gives latency, if instead the damping where on the gimbals it would be instant feedback in the hands and on the quad, tried some of the damping grease and it does kinda work but depends on the gimbal design how much damping you can get

[@Kabab]

Grease helps but sort of does the opposite. It makes the initial movement difficult and then it glides faster and faster. We need the opposite. We need initial and slow movements to be smooth and hard movements to have resistance. Nonetheless it's better than nothing but not quite right. RC smoothing isn't exactly the same as what I'm explaining either. RC Smoothing is great to smooth out controls digitally. I'm looking for physical feedback feel to my controls.

[@doccock100]

@@Kabab you essentially need a non-newtonian fluid. Something as simple as having corn flour as a liquid medium that the stick moved through would do exactly as you say.

[@pablogonzalez4567]

@@Kabab what you mention as first hard but then glides faster, could be because you are thinking of an overdamped system wich would be really stiff for most of the range of movement that gimbals do while flyig, viscous damping is velocity based so it slows fast movement and affects less slow movement reducing jittery motion, my aim personaly was to fly with 180 degree shutter and an smooth flight so that it doesn't ghost when using stabilization(kinda defeats the need for stabilization exept horizon stabilization)

[@Kabab]

@@pablogonzalez4567 that's how the grease should work but it doesn't in this case because the surface area interaction is so small.

[@pablogonzalez4567]

@@Kabab yeah just looked it up and seems most greases are actually shear thinning (the contrary to corn starch). I did a quick test with corns starch, and other with a mix between corn starch in its gel form and some dry, didn't had much effect in the gimbals

[@zeDoSauRus]

You should try rotating the whole gimbal assembly. I tried to build gimbal holders that can change their angle (similar to those Microsoft keyboards). The reasoning behind it was that your thumb doesn't naturally move vertically but more diagonal. It was really nice but I didn't have a 3D printer back then and bla bla. Should try again :) Damping idea is sick!

[@Kabab]

Right that would be a nifty adjustment too that wouldn't be too hard to do. Realistically I'm not as concerned about that but it is definitely a consideration that any manufacturer could build into any product. We currently have two new radios that just launched. Radiomaster pocket and jumper t-20. Both the same as anything else.

[@zeDoSauRus]

@@Kabab I still rock the original Taranis, I get what you speak of☺️

[@Kabab]

@@zeDoSauRus OG taranis is still top ~3 radios to exist today imo.

[@zeDoSauRus]

@@Kabab I have to agree with that!

[@chrismillersrcfamily]

lol the editing. #cracked me up. Don’t cramp your style bro lol.

[@Kabab]

Check out CapCut. Truly incredible what they've pulled off. It's at least 10x more efficient at using the computer resources available compared to premiere. My computer cannot edit 4K on premiere or DaVinci to save a life. It does it on CapCut like it's 720p.

[@volvo850enjoyer8]

@@Kababdoes it work for real estate/ cinematic Fpv cutting for you?

[@Kabab]

@@volvo850enjoyer8 capcut is good for most things short of a movie or interfacing with after effects or something

[@martinfpv5]

The best controller I've ever had in my hands was from the Jyu Hornet 2. The drone was total sh*t but the controller, the gimbals and the stickends were the best I've ever flown with. The underside from the controller felt perfect in hands.

[@oliverbodwell1300]

Getting back into the hobby, wondering what I should upgrade my X9D to, and wondering what ever happened to Kabab. Lo and behold, this video drops. Did you get a chance to try AGO1 gimbals? They worth it?

[@Kabab]

The AG01 don't make any meaningful difference. There is zero improvement. Just a different look. Some people say they prefer metal clanking on metal when the stick hits the endpoint. I don't think the sticks should be hitting the endpoint so much that you can have that sort of preference. Otherwise, there is no other controller on the market worth a damn right now IMO. There is this new Jumper in progress and supposed to be coming soon however I'm not confident with Jumper. They usually have a habit of doing something dumb that ruins the controller whether it be tiny gimbals, odd shape or lack of radio options.

[@KOrnhOliO1]

@@Kabab Or just the poor quality we've come to expect from Jumper!

[@Kabab]

@@KOrnhOliO1 this is unfortunately too true

[@MindRiderFPV]

Great video. I still fly the DJI black thing, holding it low with the thumbs hovering is not bad, find a way to make the DJI C2 better! I like you love not to deal with a receiver and just use the DJI system. Is it as bad as I read?

[@Kabab]

I did fly with that controller for years so it's not the worst, just really not ideal. Considering it's the single most important item in your kit since it's the only thing you touch while flying, it really shouldn't be as bad as it is. There are a few out there that have gimbal swap services. I just never got around to finding one and sending it to them to swap for me. Too lazy to do it myself

[@MindRiderFPV]

@@Kabab Eventually will move to O3 and the DJI controller 2. Don’t want to deal with receivers.

[@Kabab]

@@MindRiderFPV the DJI controller 2 is utterly useless. An Xbox controller is better.

[@MindRiderFPV]

@@Kabab I’ll have to try it. Not dealing with RX and updates. Just DJI is so simple.

[@Kabab]

@@MindRiderFPV I agree with you 1000000% and if I could still use the old DJI FPV controller with the O3, I would. I'll take a janky chunky radio I hate just so I don't need to deal with a second antenna. That's how much I absolutely hate the multiple antennas. That being said, I've been using the ELRS Rx's with the built in ceramic tower antennas and haven't had any issues at all at ~1km range or less and 250mw. I will still have an antenna however because it's just not reasonable to expect the tiny ceramic tower to work under a batt and behind a gopro at range. Similarly the DJI FPV Radio 2 is so incredibly bad and unusable, I've switched entirely to the boxer and ELRS. Just search for it and take a look at a picture. It's absolutely awful. I haven't a clue what DJI was thinking with it.

[@tinexdFPV]

TX16s FTW

[@tshirtfactory07]

Bob, are you still mostly flying Emuflight? If so, have you been sticking with the mpu6000 or have you tried some of the bmi270 targets the emu devs made available?

[@Kabab]

I fly emuflight exclusively on my cinewhoops. The dynamic rates are unparalleled by anything in betaflight. I only use the one FC/ESC combo I have a bunch of however. It's the 25x25 stack we have/had on fpvcycle. mpu6000

[@xymaryai8283]

damped (not dampened) sticks could be really cool, if they were as easily adjustable as spring tension. but having hydraulic fluid in a controller seems excessive to reach that goal, i think it would have to be really well contained or be pneumatic or other mechanism

[@xymaryai8283]

(also, yooo i caught this video 25 seconds after release

[@Kabab]

Yeah I wasn't really thinking hydraulic, more pneumatic. Either way, any sort of damping system for the sticks makes a LOT of sense and would make flying that much easier and more engaging.

[@neilfpv]

I hacked the roll/pitch stick. I'm also a pincher. I noticed that my pointer finger would go down very close to the very base of the stick. This prevents my from doing a proper forward pitch. It stops because of my finger. HAHAHA! So I printed a round thing that I mounted on the stick. My pointer finger now rest on it. It's mounted about 11-13mm from the top of the stick. I am now able to do a full forward pitch. :) Nice hack on the video btw!

[@aphinion]

For a pincher, the AG01 on the Boxer just sit perfect. Lower wouldn't work for me. In general the Boxer is really perfect for me :) Somehow I feel like you just basically set those axis deeper to resemble your feel of the much lower lying DJI gymbals ;) There is also dampening grease for those gymbals if you prefer that feel.

[@Kabab]

Gimbals sit lower but the sticks are extended. Sticks are the same height. You just get more range on them which gives you much more flying resolution

[@user-yk1cw8im4h]

how much smaller is the boxer compared to qx7? Could u shoot me a photo? I need a smaller radio than my qx7

[@Kabab]

About 1" shorter in height, 2" narrower and ~3/4" thinner

[@user-yk1cw8im4h]

@@Kabab thank you! That’s more substantial than I’ve thought

[@Kabab]

@@user-yk1cw8im4h Yeah it's quite a bit smaller. I still wouldn't call it a small radio. It's a good and appropriate size. I don't think any radio should be bigger than this....but if course there's some GIANT radios like the QX7

[@DresdenFPV]

of course most of the problems depend on hand size - so me having really long fingers, I'm totally fine with those old, large taranis boxes.

[@Kabab]

I have some of the biggest hands around. I can use most large controllers and gimbals fine but it's still not comfortable or optimal.

[@slappomatthew]

if you get the AG01 you wont be able to drop the gimbals as much. the AG01 are thicccer. as thumber i will admit it is kinda hard to move my thumbs easily to the extremes of the gimbal travel. I'm not really sure what you gain by dropping the gimbal and extending the stick though. doesnt that get you back where you started?

[@Kabab]

When you drop the gimbal and extend the sticks you have the same overall arc angle but the range of movement of the stick end is much longer. You can't just extend the stick because then your fingers can't properly reach the end of the sticks. I understand that the ag01 is made of metal but other than that, there's no real world difference. It's the same exact function. No better in any way other than the stick end bump being metal on metal rather than plastic on plastic.

[@choppergirl]

I removed the rubber things off my TX-16s too, lowered the gimbals as far as possible with lowering plates, and extended the tsticks as far as possible out with Frsky Umbrella style M4 stick ends. The absolute opposite of id1i0t short throw gimbals. Longer lever, more travel, more precision. My thumbs don't sit on top of the stick, but on the very edge of the umbrella. I want to design a radio where the internals are one unit, that can be mounted anywhere inside a persons custom designed and 3D printed outer shell case. So if you found one of the designs that was near perfect, you could mod what you didn't like in the files, print it out again, and voila. Expermiment with case designing until you had had enough of it. I like the big chonky radios. Personally, I h9t3 the Nintendo / Playstation style controllers myself. They look like a kid's toy, or like you're holding a pair of truck nvts in your hand. But I do want my gimbals in there as deep as possible and my stick ends as long as I possibly can be comfortable with.

[@marc_frank]

Have you seen the Radiomaster Pocket?

[@Kabab]

I JUST saw this and asked the radiomaster engineer about it. It looks thicker than the boxer and with smaller gimbals but maybe that's just the picture proportions. Just because the gimbals look smaller doesn't mean the range is smaller. Hopeful this is the compact full featured radio we all want but probably just another random product that doesn't address any issues.

[@marc_frank]

@@Kabab it actually has enough buttons/sliders to fly full house gliders as well

[@8BiT_fpv]

magnetic dampening?

[@Kabab]

That would be the very best but probably would be hard to implement.

[@reimontes666]

why are u not reviewing a radiomaster pocket?

[@Kabab]

I literally just saw it this morning when people started commenting about it. Maybe I will but I know the gimbals are smaller so I'm not really interested at the moment unless I can drop them in a bit

[@user-me9we9lv1n]

What do you think of the new Jumper T20 Formfactor ?

[@Kabab]

I actually just got one. Gonna do a video on it soon.

[@user-me9we9lv1n]

@@Kabab Awsome i waiting for it. I wonder if you have a practical use of those weird silders in the bottom middle for planes.

[@Kabab]

@@user-me9we9lv1n gosh those things are pretty useless. In fact, I'm not sure any of the wheels knobs or sliders are useful because they don't even calibrate correctly no matter how much I try.

[@user-me9we9lv1n]

​@@Kabab Uh thats sounds disappointing. Jumper has such a nice Formfactor, but this is a big bummer :(

[@dawgdude6472]

The other thing I would love to see is a radio that gives the rest of our fingers a good place to rest. Imagine if each finger and your palm had a surface to rest against with switches placed conveniently between these idle fingers. I would also like to see drone specific switches. 4 is fine, but I only really use 3. 1 2 position switch for arming, and 2 3 position switches for flight mode and turtle and beeper. The 4th switch could be rate profiles or something, but all the switches and knows on most radios are not used for drones. I hate the size and complexity if my TX 16s, and can't wait to try the pocket. The biggest thing I really want to see though is a remote that fits comfortably into both hands. I'm trying to switch from thumbing to pinching and these non ergonomic radios make that really hard. I'm pretty fond of my craptqcular little Emax radio. I'm just too lazy to get it bound up in place of my radiomaster for all of my emax drones. I hope you keep working on this problem. Someone will get it right eventually and it will revolutionize the way we interact with these little machines. The awesome thing about us biological entities is that we have an almost infinite capacity to learn and train our nervous system to an incredible level of automated complexity. To see this just watch any pro skateboarder in slow motion. I bet if that game controller was all you had to fly with, enough practice would make you proficient with it and would ruin it for big gimbals.

[@Kabab]

unfortunately it's very difficult to make a controller that has only one specific way to hold it and switches at each fingertip. Video game controllers have much smaller gimbals and can be more specific as to how they are held. These controllers typically have huge gimbals by comparison and at least in FPV, we typically don't use any buttons or switches at all during flight. It's very easy to make a thumb friendly controller. It's very difficult to make a pinch friendly controller. The blue model I've made is still the most comfortable to hold in either position I've ever held but it definitely is not specific to either thumb or pinch and is also designed for a wide variety of hand sizes and huge gimbals. I do wish someone would use my design but I don't have that much influence or enough money to make it myself.

[@RCRitterFPV]

your prototype looks like the Mango as I Imagine... Tango2 thin and light clean switches, but a little more room for bigger battery and screen... internal Tracer and Crossfire... 2.4 for small things with tiny antennas... 900 for anything bigger...

[@Kabab]

I just got the new Emax controller and holy hell is it incredible! Super small, FULL FULL FULL size gimbals, fits insanely well in the hand. They just need to give it an external module bay and it'll be the best remote on the market. The one I have has a 100mw ELRS Tx built in. Coming soon in a future video about the tinyhawk HD. emax-usa.com/products/e8-transmitter?_pos=1&_sid=1aaeb4e2f&_ss=r&fbclid=IwAR3-aa41BfyvzRkZiFI0hlZiAx2StggpedkVYnraolca27WcRL6rlWxLzdY#

[@SkermiebroTech]

Have you heard of the radiomaster pocket

[@Kabab]

Yeah I just learned about it yesterday morning when people started posting about it. It's about as thick as the boxer but has smaller gimbals unfortunately.

[@SkermiebroTech]

​@@Kabab wow a youtuber that reads comments! You earned a sub!

[@Kabab]

@@SkermiebroTech I read everything I can. Especially on recent videos. KZbin makes it super easy for creators to interact. It's confusing to me when sub 200k channels don't respond.

[@alperenozgur]

i added led module instead of 3d print 😬

[@marc_frank]

i too thought about just printing a new case

[@Kabab]

The challenge is packaging the components inside to fit correctly inside anything printed.

[@marc_frank]

@@Kabab yeah especially with giant boards like in the tx16s