I Hacked up a T20S...

Table of Contents:
00:00 - Intro
00:54 - Best features of the T20/T20S
03:33 - T20 vs T20S
06:21 - default out of box
08:11 - Thickness of controller (THICC)
09:41 - Mods to controllers and comparison
10:54 - Quality concerns and mods
16:49 - More range than needed? good?
18:08 - What is a full range gimbal?
19:58 - MAGICAL EMAX CONTROLLER!
22:51 - Overall recommendation
If you're looking for a radio, skip the T20/T20S, get the Boxer instead:
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[@vertigo2893]

(good) pot sensors have a smooth resistance that is very difficult to mimic otherwise. Pot sensors are not sensitive to temperature change, hal effect sensors are, if you fly in winter, its really a problem. The fact they "wear out"... well, maybe over decades, in practice, it doesnt matter, old pilots like me that grew up with futabas and graupners can testify those pot sensor gimbals pretty much last a lifetime, at the same time, I see plenty of broken hal effect gimbals on recent radios.

[@Kabab]

Like I said, I don't think it's a significant issue that shouldn't make any difference to anyone's decision but it is odd to have made that choice in this day and age

[@vertigo2893]

@@Kabab Clearly there wont be a massive difference between them, but that is generally true of gimbals. Fact remains that a good pot sensor is generally better than a hal effect sensor, as it offers higher precision and linearity, and far better temperature stability, as well as feeling different (which you may or may not like). But its not only the sensor. The entire gimbal is different. Jumper didnt design these gimbals, they where designed by JR propo (google "Propo ELITE CNC gimbal"), and used to cost $200 per gimbal. That was many years ago, and before hal effect became more popular. My best guess is that jumper bought their inventory (Propo went bankrupt) and is now selling them as a premium gimbal upgrade, much like radiomaster does with the AG01, just at a price premium that actually makes sense. If true, the supply wont be endless, unless they bought the tooling from them too.

[@Foremi]

@@Kabab because as he stated there ARE benefits to quality pots. The only actual benefit a hall has is lifetime and that's really only relevant when compared to cheap pots when you take care of your gimbals. A quality POT will outlast the radio and provide a cleaner signal both in practical use and across temperature ranges. It is a choice that goes against trends, but the issues with the gimbals is not that they decided to use pots.

[@Kabab]

@@Foremi again, as I responded above, the fact that they went with pots, whether they be good or crap quality, should not matter to anyone's decision. There are no issues with pots inside the lifetime of pretty much any controller I've personally seen.

[@adamhixon]

My first radio was a turnigy 9x with the absolute cheapest potentiometers money could buy. After about 3 years and 100s of hours I started to get a bit of scratchiness and jitter around the center and I thought they were wore out. One quick squirt of contact cleaner into each pot solved the problem. The radio became obsolete before I needed to clean them again.

[@thomasluesink]

Excellent deep dive into specific but important/essential features. Thanks!

[@lightsailfpv]

hey! don't feel your videos are too long, I watched every second and the release timing was perfect. Thank you!

[@TAGE_FPV]

Hey, I got a T-20S and did not experience your issues with calibration. In fact it was pretty flawless for me. centering worked, and the travel of each pot (especially pots) was just fine out of the box. That being said, great vid as always!

[@sensesfpv]

Thank you for the gift brotha 🖤💯

[@svekatune1333]

thank you so much! you made my choise done

[@TheCreat]

This is a fantastically detailed review, thank you for that! As for the large case and/or grips: I personally would absolutely need this. I am a thumber, and relatively large hands. Using a normal PlayStation controller makes my hands cramp after like 10 minutes or so. So having the grips be not tiny, despite the radio overall being relatively small, would be a huge plus for me (maybe even a requirement).

[@Kabab]

You are in great luck then. There are an endless selection of controllers that will fit your needs.

[@maelradec6766]

best and most honest review.

[@aungbonaing]

The t20 is perfect to my hand and i am in love with rdc as it is more precise and i don't need to add dead band at the center like in my tx16s. I had a sudden lost of yaw control in tx16s i believe it is related to hall sensor.

[@Shauny_D]

Any ideas why the T20 wont connect to USB? I've tried every freakin setting and Jumper ridiculously support says it isn't supposed to. My other radios connect fine. Tried a million different cables and the advanced usb settings. Darn thing just doesn't work.

[@slowvoltage]

Quality content.

[@MCsCreations]

Fantastic review, Bob! Thanks a bunch! 😃 For me, the biggest issue of this radio are the gimbals... Yeah, the limitations are weird, potentiometers are mad crazy... But the fact that you need to open the radio to adjust them is crazy. Specially when you need to disconnect the freaking UFL from the antenna! I've already ruined a few VTXs because of this (insert bad words here) antenna connector... Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@Kabab]

Yeah I forgot to point that out. The first two times I put the case back together I didn't plug the UFL back in because I didn't realize they got unplugged when I gently pulled it apart. Quite odd to make the slack on that wire so short and also put it on a board that is across the other side of the casing

[@NickJFPV]

Try centering the pots and sliders before doing the calibration. I had the same issue not getting full range and that fixed it. Do you have any issues with your fingers running into the front switches? Trying to decide between cutting mine down or moving them to the top of the radio by the other switches.

[@Kabab]

I tried centering and doing it again. Doesn't make any difference. I can sometimes get some of them to calibrate correctly but then they don't work right on the home screen. I can see how you could run into the switches but I don't have that issue personally. Not hard to just remove them however. Plenty of other switches

[@jaydronezz]

Hi Bob, great explanation of the Jumper T20. I had high hopes for this one, as I needed a separate, smaller controller for travelling. When I first saw the gimbal description of RCXXX , I thought it was the Futaba type gimbal, not a cheaper one, which they probably used in their lower end T8 radios. BTW, do you use that same dental drill on people you don't like!? ❤😂

[@Kabab]

😂 it was my lab drill I used. Dental drills are too tiny. I needed more meat on the bur/bit

[@Imakilln]

I'm looking for a compact travelling radio and was close to buying a T20S to try but after watching a few reviews as you've clearly demonstrated it needs 10-15% more refinement.. Also what's up with them discontinuing the (Hall sensor) T20 already as I thought it was only just released? For now I decided to just preorder myself a RM Pocket since they're so cheap (& will prob try modding it) but what I really want is something like a higher quality gimbal version of that EMAX radio w/ 1W ELRS + a small screen!

[@Kabab]

Yeah really hope someone copies the emax or emax makes a high quality completed version

[@dakzer55]

Just got this and swapped it to a clear case. Almost as easy as working with a Radiomaster, but some of the wires are a little thin, and delicate so needed to be careful. Plenty of room in their, and great to know it is easy to swap the gimbals. Perfect for my medium sized hands, as I am moving from mini gimble Frsky X Lite Pro, to full size gimbals, and didn't fancy the honking T16, or Boxer, as I am just an occasional flyer. It felt natural straight away. Can't believe I did not move to full sized gimbals sooner. Less cramp in fingers, and can fly for longer.

[@OdysseusVrakas]

Somehow I was waiting for this video😂

[@EdturdEnfart]

Tango 2 with the v2 gimbals are so nice!

[@DrifterFPV]

how big are your hands bro?

[@Kabab]

~8.5" from bottom of palm to end of middle finger

[@TAGE_FPV]

can you believe this guy is a dentist? better open wide lmao

[@ChrisHarmon1]

Mine is 7.75" and I wear size 11.5 - 12 shoes. You gotta be sporting 13's...

[@lunaticfpv17]

​@@Kababjeeeez man

[@Kabab]

@@TAGE_FPV I used to only work as a pedodontist when I first graduated too. I really have no issue at all with dentistry and my hands despite what it may seem like 😅

[@RazvanSecu]

have you tried the t14?

[@glyngodsson5185]

bro do you have a vid on the radiomaster pocket ? i've looked but can't see one, i was aiming to choose between this and the pocket as a spare i can just leave in the bottom of my toolbox

[@Kabab]

Unfortunately I don't. I'm not interested in the pocket because the gimbals are really really small. It's unfortunate. If they just gave it large gimbals it would be excellent

[@mihalydozsa2254]

So, if you 3D print a new back plate to the controller, change the gimbals to AG01 to save the time that it takes to modify the stock one to be spongy (other videos said that it is possible) and put an oil filled RC car suspension dampener on the gimbals (i saw in an other video of yours, you would prefer something like that) it would be perfect? :D (Aside from the quality of the components)

[@mfrfpv9079]

thaniks bob

[@djs134]

Great review. I guess I’ll be sticking with my tango 2 for the foreseeable future. Hands down best radio for pinching that I’ve tried. Granted the gimbals don’t give u all the range that my old qx7 would give me. I wish radiomaster would work with u on a radio

[@KOrnhOliO1]

You should have just stuck with your QX7...I have... And many others too.

[@mikihay]

Still using the old qx7 cant find something better

[@KOrnhOliO1]

@@mikihay Same here! Yup, took a long time many years ago when it first came out deciding which radio to get so I didn't have to re-spend my money to get the right one. QX7 was the winner and still is today! I've never found a reason to own two radios. I modified it some. Bought all short switches and replaced all the top toggles. Made custom 3S li-ion exact fit batteries for exact size of battery area. Worked great and super cheap. Used exact size cell phone batteries. 😎🤘

[@Mxoderberg]

I wonder why both this and the Boxer has a raised ring around the gimbals? Why not make the shell flat/flush around the gimbals? My index finger hits the ring on top of the shell on my Boxer on full throttle. No other radio has this, no Radiomaster or the Mambo & Tango2.

[@Kabab]

Totally forgot to cover that. The damn ring gets in the way of moments and it does absolutely nothing. There is no point at all. The emax controller is just that much better for not being a mess

[@AcroNerdFPV]

If RadioMaster ever makes a Boxer 2. I would hope they make something in the spirit as this Controller.

[@rcrotorfreak]

Isn't m2 a boxer 2? THere is a boxer m2.

[@BluestarP3D]

@@rcrotorfreak No dude... That's Mode 2, throttle being on the left side. Mode 1 is throttle on the right side. That's what M1 and M2 are. Not versions.

[@ferocious_r]

Can't wait for the video on the Star Gazer, @KababFPV! If only it was not as expensive... as nice as it is, I'm afraid at that price point they won't sell as many as they ought to.

[@TiagoTiagoT]

Would be interesting to learn what was the reasoning for the weird design decisions on the gymbals...

[@davidxje]

I'm holding out for the Radiomaster Kabab 🤞

[@TiagoTiagoT]

Screen realstate is good for setting things up and diagnostics. When actually in the air I don't make much use of the TX screen; but as a whole, having that tiny screen size would be a bit too claustrophobic for me.

[@MattacksRC]

Dude why are you grinding the radio? lol

[@kurtzFPV]

I also like a screen for monitoring gps satellite acquisition without having to look in the goggles, or for seeing last coordinates in the event of a crash at distance, but that doesn't take a large screen either.

[@Kabab]

I have never even seen it set up to be able to do something like that. I would assume that very few people are able to do that and this is why it should have a screen still

[@kurtzFPV]

@@Kabab yes. There are several Edgetx lua scripts that will do it. I use the INAV lua, which works just as well with betaflight.

[@adamhixon]

You have to center the pots and sliders during the calibration process. EdgeTX's calibration wizard is a little un-intuitive about this portion of the process. But if you fail to do so properly it will have the exact result that your getting.

[@marc_frank]

if you like your gimbals to have a low arc angle, what do you think about x y sliders instead of a gimbal?

[@Kabab]

Right I would love to see some XY sliders but I haven't used or felt any to be able to speak of. I do find it difficult to imagine a mechanism that can be as smooth and free as a gimbal that is pivoting on an axis. Also, if you have to use linear bearings and such, it's probably going to need to have a larger footprint?

[@marc_frank]

@@Kabab i was thinking of the type used in audio mixers maybe two in y to carry the one in x it will take up at least as much space as the amount of travel you want to have gimbals have the advantage in size, because they have a lever

[@CapungPlastik]

Talking about RM Pocket, from what I remember you have the "same" idea years ago with 3D print shell (strange, but I can't find that video on yours..)..

[@Kabab]

Yeah I show it in the boxer video.

[@grabejud]

i got lucky i got the 1st version with tx18 hall sensor gimbal. even gal kelmer got complaints about the siders being not of quality compared to the original version. very obvious they are cutting corners with the s, and sounds like rdc90 is just a nice name. i even emailed jumper whats the difference they discont the v1, only got a reply to ask for discount to where i bought it. so yah, for future buyers, just dont fall for the scammy rdc90. do note, the v1 got the metal (cnc alu) back holder

[@keithzhang7194]

what? Gimbal not good? - totally opposite my friends and I feel so good about it - especially the super fine damping feeling of throttle, also the looking, abundant, it is telling - it is a mech warrior . I asked Jumper - why RDC sensor even cost higher than hall, answer is - feeling more steady. - I think it is. I also got Frsky X20s - 3 times higher price - with hall sensor - very agile but not steady.

[@thewhitedillard]

Jumper does it different 😵‍💫

[@Aced-It-FPV]

I have a Jumper T20 with Hall gimbals and the folding antenna on order from Arris Hobby.

[@DigitalCruzer]

Im so glad i saw this, i was thinking about getting it, i like full size gimbals but i like the feel of my zorro better, ive seen people put the small ag01 gimbals in the T-lite, i wonder if the full size would go in that

[@Kabab]

The ag01 isn't full size either unfortunately

[@definingslawek4731]

@@KababWait what, boxer standard gimbal is full size but ag01 isnt? I thought you said you like the boxer because its full size.

[@Kabab]

@@definingslawek4731 boxer standard is not full size. It's only full size once you add a spacer to the sticks to drop them into the controller by ~8mm. Then you get a bit more than full range and it feels absolutely luxurious

[@definingslawek4731]

@@Kabab is it possible to drop the t20 gimbals? I find the boxer a little uncomfortable atm without dropped gimbals, like in terms of hitting full stick deflection. It’s so big and heavy I can’t believe everyone calls it compact. I have never used a lanyard before but I feel like I need to learn to with this. I’m trying to find someone in my area that has a t20 cause it looks so much comfier to me. The dji mini 3 pro radio with the display is super comfy I wish there was an fpv radio thing and light like that one with big gimbals.

[@Kabab]

@@definingslawek4731 I would very strongly advise AGAINST the T20. Also, it's hard to understand how our tech is so ancient and bares tags like 'compact' because most are unaware of just how incredibly awful and enormous the old stuff was from back in the day long before FPV. The T20's quality is challenged and I would not call it 'comfortable' to hold due to how incredibly thick it is and how awkward the back is shaped. The controller is about an inch shorter but all the other dimensions are the same or bigger. The gimbals cannot be dropped on the T20. If you want to consider anything other than a Boxer, I would recommend the Jumper T14. It's slightly smaller overall but the gimbals cannot be dropped and have med-short throw on them. The overall quality of the radio is improved over the T20 but not a whole lot. You can drop the gimbals in on the T14 but it will take a fair bit of hacking up the module bay that you then wouldn't be able to use. If you are a thumber, you'll kinda be fine with anything. If you are a hybrid or pinch grip at all, the options are severely limited. The boxer with dropped gimbals is simply the very best radio that exists on the market today. Adding the spacers to the gimbals on the boxer is very easy and involves almost zero modding.

[@f2bcnc74]

why do you want so much travel for your stick ?? in standard you have enought accurate with this travel ?

[@Kabab]

If you drive a car where the steering wheel only turns 90deg full steering left to full steering right, it's very difficult to drive the car. The steering would be very erratic with small movements of the wheel. Same thing for the sticks. If there's only a very small amount of travel, it's significantly more difficult to fly

[@reminoel483]

For some reason im still rocking a Turnigy i6s ibus setup after 10years and cant find a reason to change. I dont do long range….

[@Kabab]

Don't change. There's nothing better or even different

[@FLYANDI]

Now is this a pre-prod model that you received?

[@Kabab]

Don't think so but not sure.

[@FLYANDI]

@@Kabab So I mainly going to use it for fixed wing as I stay on Crossfire on the quads - generally you still like this one?

[@Kabab]

@@FLYANDI I'm not a big fan of the controller but I do appreciate the design that does work in it

[@snekoyl]

Agree completely about the gimbals! The M3 threaded post for my stick end pulled straight out of the plastic hall sensor version when I tried to swap out to something better for thumbing, and their customer service asked questions like I was a child while trying to deflect possibility of a defect. Trash gimbals. Something else to notice, the lanyard connector will visibly damage the plastic of the T20 case if it gets turned a few degrees to either side, yet it's not secured in place. Add some epoxy to make sure it doesn't twist or you risk damaging your radio when you drop it, even though preventing damage is the entire reason to wear a lanyard

[@Kabab]

So frustrating. They could have had something great

[@Dec1duousTree]

Really great video! I don't like the "new toy" review videos where they gloss over everything that isn't a bullet point on the sales info. This one I actually learned a lot and feel very informed, not just about this radio, but about radios in general.

[@Kabab]

Well you're in luck because I usually read that bullet point sheet after I'm done shooting and editing the video 😂. Wait till you see my review of a new Emax product at the end of September. I clearly did not understand the assignment when they sent it to me. Stay tuned.

[@Dec1duousTree]

@@Kabab Awesome, man! Thank you. Looking forward to it.

[@owensspace]

I want a bigger screen. I absolutely go through those menus and everything. Not having a screen would be a nightmare. A smaller screen would definitely be too small. But, when I use the screen I’m usually setting stuff up, so it’s not like I look at it that much so I’m fine with it. I just feel like you’re skipping over stuff. This radio seems like it sucks.

[@Kabab]

Appropriate request. It's just that I don't know anyone that spends too much time setting things up on the controller. You can also plug it into a computer and use the companion app. Screen can stay and it's not really that big of a deal and doesn't take up much space. Unfortunately the controller generally isn't that great.

[@fpv_am]

Any news about the cheap aios from Neutron RC?

[@Kabab]

apparantly they just got the latest BF on the board. I haven't checked it out yet. DO NOT buy the board for a full 5". It can't handle the noise as I expected. It'll work for a typical 3.5", 3" cinewhoop or smaller. Might work okay for a very light 5" but I wouldn't bother at all with any of these AIO boards for a 5" or up.

[@fpv_am]

@@Kabab thanks, what about 2203 2800kv 6s 3 inch whoops? Not all escs can handle that rpms and they fall into desyncs.

[@Kabab]

@@fpv_am I'm not specifically worried about the RPM, I'd be more worried about the spike in amperage and symmetrical spike in back EMF. I would expect it to do fine since the board has better ESC's on it than most every other AIO I've seen. Still don't know until tested. That compatibility table they have listed on the product page on Aliexpress is unfortunately all false.

[@torsion89]

What!'s better HALL or RDC90 sensor?

[@Kabab]

Hall sensor is better by nature. It's not really a comparison

[@technicalsupport6983]

Is it possible , T20 gimbal can replace the AG1 gimbal And the Inner space can be use for insert battery 🔋 ,

[@Kabab]

Maybe. I'm not sure if the wiring matches

[@technicalsupport6983]

How to connect this remort to mobile via bluetooth to get telemetry data

[@austntexan]

I think I'll wait for the T20S+

[@shaneintegra]

Would be sweet if radiomaster used that design and made it better! Absolutely love how small and compact that is. Would be amazing for thumbers

[@KyrreXXL]

Have you seen the Pocket?

[@geometerfpv2804]

​@@KyrreXXLPocket is in a different league. This has gimbals that aren't toys, and 4 times the power.

[@KyrreXXL]

@@geometerfpv2804 Thats true, but the op wanted RM to make an even smaller and more compact radio than the T20, and they have. And it seems that people like it the way it is, considering its price.

[@metalfpv]

@geometerfpv2804 the whole point of this video is that the so called "not toy" gimballs here are not that good, haven't seen much complaints about the pocket so far, also four time the transmission power doesn't mean four time the range so not sure, I'd better have radiomaster keeping upgrading the pocket which has a perfect transportable size than creating yet another mid size radio like the boxer

[@KyrreXXL]

@@metalfpv The rule is in fact that you need 4X the power to get 2X the range. So 1W gives you twice the range of 250mw. 250mw never bothered me with my Zorro, but it may be insufficient for some. Then again, a RM module with 1W is 40$, and the Pocket CC2500 is 55, so for 105 you can have a 1W Pocket.

[@MysteryD]

20:39 You can't tell me that's not Christopher Walken saying "begged" there

[@athenovae]

The thing that is off putting for me is that the pots don’t calibrate. 😭 I fly planes too so eventually I’d like to play with those even though I’d probably not ever even use all of them. Knowing that they work is comforting tho.

[@samuelevinti]

it's weird because they advertise the hall gimbals and the crappy ones you bought but the hall ones are cheaper ?!?

[@ridewithandrei]

i tried all radiomasters as i really like the ag01's but cannot get used to the big ones as i cannot reach the gimbal, really love the tango2 but the gimbals are not ideal, also i can fly the tx12 with the ag01 minis. Totally agree with the reference to the thickness, no idea why they are doing this and also the lack of a finger placement on the rear.

[@ZenoErwt]

Get the pyrodrone gimbals for the tango 2 ❤

[@ridewithandrei]

did they fixed the falling bearings ?@@ZenoErwt

[@Kabab]

The AG01 and any other third party gimbal is not full range. The only full range gimbals I currently know of are the X9D, QX7 and the emax gimbals in that whoop controller. Literally no other gimbal I've used or looked at will do 44mm or more, end to end. If the controller was designed right, being able to work with a ~55mm end to end gimbal would also be no problem and overall much better

[@geometerfpv2804]

​@@KababDoesn't moving that far on your gimbals contort your hand? I feel like people already overwhelmingly use the center part of their sticks except for snap moves, why in the world would you want to bent 55mm over?

[@Kabab]

@@geometerfpv2804 I'd say most people actually have a very soft center and use the mid range on the gimbal more. My center area does very little so I can be very smooth if I want to be. If the controller casing isn't so darn fat, it's not hard to reach the ends of a 55mm travel stick or even more. Still, I feel the original X9D's 44mm travel is a good standard to go by. Also, if the pivot point of the gimbal is placed appropriately, your hand doesn't need to contort through the arc of the sticks travel so much.

[@frasersteen]

I'm not really that sensitive to the gimbals but I could really use a smaller form factor. I want 2x 2pos switches, 4x 3 position one, some kind of slider a screen and a solid 2 hour battery. as small as possible.

[@Kabab]

You can have all that but only in the largest possible design. This is how it seems to go and I don't understand why they even bother wasting all the plastic to make such a large casing.

[@KyrreXXL]

On Banggood at least, you can choose between hall effect and pot gimbals.

[@Kabab]

The hall effect ones are the T-20 gimbals which are reduced travel unfortunately

[@geometerfpv2804]

That doesn't mean they are actually in stock. There are tons of pop-up Chinese stores claiming to have them, most don't. For example, I bought a T20. The store emailed me claiming they didn't actually have any and trying to get me to switch to a T20s. They said it was "unknown" when more T20 would arrive. Fits with the "discontinued" narrative. It's not like all these shops have the official scoop from Jumper, they are just posting crap and hoping you press "buy"...then they sort it out later.

[@KyrreXXL]

@@geometerfpv2804 My point was that hall effect is an option, it wasnt clear in the video that focused on the sensor version. I never said anything about whats in stock, on Banggood none of the variants are, it is just for pre-order.

[@Kabab]

@@geometerfpv2804 this is not an uncommon story now. I only discovered that it seems to have been discontinued the day before recording the video. I still don't understand why but I'm sure there's a reason for it

[@baggszilla]

Bob you need to legit work with RadioMaster or Jumper or even FrSky IDK! We love your input! Cheers!

[@Kabab]

I don't know if I specifically need to work for them but they need somebody that just looks at the market with common sense and also uses the product themselves. I believe the real issue here is consumerism. These companies just want to make something that people will buy. They don't care if it's good or if it works or anything about it. This is unfortunately what stunts innovation these days.

[@olafschermann1592]

Only few people have common sense. They even call them highly intelligent when those just think they have common sense.

[@jtcustomknives]

Seams like we need a radio that replaces the sticks with track balls lol

[@Kabab]

That's actually been tried by Valve with gaming controllers. Their track pads are not bad. Not good imo but not any worse than tiny game controller gimbals for FPS primarily. The gimbals mechanism that's typically used isn't bad. They just need to size it accordingly and package the controller such that it works with the gimbal rather than independently

[@Islandpandemonium]

Grip joystick like F-16

[@olafschermann1592]

Bob, they should ask you for designing their next controller!

[@Kabab]

I dunno bout that but I do wish someone that actually flies would use the product and they would take real feedback. It seems like they're just looking to make something they can sell rather than something that's actually good

[@index7787]

Human interfaces for the mentally deranged. This looks sick tho. Who needs a second cameraman for the RED/gimbal: Taranis x9D with dual 3-axis thumb pots, hall effect all around (I steal the sliders for the thumb pot leads). Absolute dream, feels like an extension of my body, and EdgeTX busts it wide open, I bluetooth my Tx into iPhone games like picaSIM.

[@impuls60]

Obviously I use mine for small planes aswell and then mixing of channels is a must for them to fly well. Making mixes on a small screen is just a pain.

[@Kabab]

You can plug it into a computer and use your whole computer screen with the companion app. Are you doing mixed daily on the fly?

[@mariomedina311]

do you think im hindering my progress using smaller gimballs? is it the only way? am i doomed?

[@Kabab]

Na probably not that drastic but it does make a difference

[@geometerfpv2804]

Lmao no you are not hindering your progress, Bob is unbelievably picky for strange reasons that you couldn't make up if you try

[@Kabab]

@@geometerfpv2804 I'm picky but if you hold these controllers side by side, I'd bet you'd choose the boxer without going through the details. You'd be torn between the size of the T20S and the quality of the boxer. The T20S gimbals are just bad and not nice to use. Default or hacked up. Just no good.

[@propsnapperfpv5154]

Kabab your laundry is done 😂

[@skelethornbro]

I don't know which to choose but didn't see people complain about rdc90 on pricey futaba 🤷.

[@ViralFailsCN]

Coz RDC90 is way better than Hall brotha

[@Kabab]

How on earth is any pot better than a hall sensor. 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️ Even cheap hall sensors are generally better at everything.

[@ViralFailsCN]

@@Kabab this is exactly why people must not pretend to be experts at stuff outside of their understanding. Love your motor experiments and all, but you gotta learn some stuff about pots in gimbals. For gods sake this is ALPS pot man. Not your regular 30 bucks beginner radio with crap pots that break in 2 months.

[@Kabab]

@@ViralFailsCN I definitely do not pretend to be an expert in anything. I also hated when others do that and thank you for putting me and my place and pointing it out. I can appreciate when a product of past generations is built to a much higher quality standard than anything that's new age however in this case, even the spec sheet on these gimbals claim three or five times the accuracy fluctuation compared to a hall sensor. I do understand also that Paul sensors are not quite as linear as potentiometers because of the nature of the arc of motion and how it interacts with the IC on the board but everything we use is so heavily ingrained with software that it shouldn't make any difference at all with how we use the radio. Even so, I used multiple potentiometer controllers that were cheap for many years way back when and never had any issue. I don't even think there's an issue with cheap pots in radios, it's just not the norm to use anymore which is weird that they choose to. Again, realistically this feature makes no difference and isn't even worth mentioning other than the fact that it is an interesting choice that they made

[@ViralFailsCN]

@@Kabab well hey, ultimately I agree 99.9% of us won't likely feel any difference between a great pot and a hall.

[@smokehead5318]

I am sorry Kabab, but as far as I know T20s version has RDC90 and Hall sensors as well if I am not mistaken, You just got upgraded t20s RDC90 gimbals. RIght? I have T20 with Halls and I can not feel any difference between them and boxers. But these front switches not for me I think, I have pretty small hands, and I thought t20 will be more comfortable for me, but now I am not sure. Cheers

[@Kabab]

I'm pretty sure they sent me the typical T20S

[@deice3]

I thought the RDC90 were supposed to be also hall effect, just more premium than the basic hall effect version? 😅 Seems worrying.

[@Kabab]

Nope. They're pots. You can easily look up the spec sheet

[@deice3]

@@Kabab seems so, I guess some people got confused and just assumed the premium version would be hall effect. Ah well, for once the cheaper version is actually better!

[@Kabab]

@@deice3 better if you're not looking for a gimbal that has full range. It's not adjustable

[@blackwater7183]

Aliexpress still sells the T-20. I had mine changed from the T-20 S to T-20 since people are saying thie RDC90 is not worth the cost plus it wears out faster than the Hall Effect gimbals.

[@yoyomin]

Rdc90 is pure marketing gimmick. Nobody will ever feel the supposedly higher precision, which comes with huge trade off in durability

[@geometerfpv2804]

​​@@yoyominIt's not a "huge tradeoff", there are people with 10 year old pot radios that work fine...people latch on to one take from one video, and suddenly it's gospel...if nobody told the user what kind of gimbals they had, they would never know, or care...

[@yoyomin]

@@geometerfpv2804 of course you'll find working pots from decades ago, so will you find hall sensors that goes faulty within a week. This doesn't change the fact that the contactless hall sensor is much more durable than pot, which is basically a leaf spring scraping on a thin carbon layer. I had to replace numerous mouse wheel rotary encoders (basically what they use in pot type gimbals), even the supposedly high quality ones like ALPS within 1 - 2 years of use. So yes the trade off in durability is huge.

[@ShebanFPV]

Bob, thank you very much for a quality content, love your videos 🤌🏻 I hope Emax will listen to you, and make same RC but with decent gimbals and 1W ELRS. I am so tired of these fat RC controllers, why make them so huge? It like no middle ground, either huge or tiny 😅 Jumper did great effort, but its a poop quality :/

[@Kabab]

That's exactly it. Good effort, 💩 quality. Jumper is publicly stating that I don't know what I'm talking about on Facebook. Kinda hard to argue that the gimbal doesn't run into itself and it doesn't have wildly variable vertical vs horizontal travel

[@daich]

it's the 80-20 rule in play here

[@coilockerfpv]

So far the most exciting part of this storm was the earthquake 😂

[@Kabab]

Definitely got me to pay attention to what was shaking

[@tweekFPV]

👍🏻👍🏻

[@michaelwindow87]

Just want to point out that having the gimbal lower actually increases the arc distance. You want the gimbal up high, but with short stick ends.

[@Kabab]

It's not about arc distance, it's about the stick end travel distance. You actually want the stick as low as it'll go in the casing such that the stick isn't flopping over at full deflection. Human fingers don't move like that. Also, in every single gimbal situation I've inspected, the gimbal travel is not limited by the rings it's mounted in. This means dropping it in does not limit its movement. You extend the sticks and you just get more travel at the same height with less of a pivot angle. All metrics improved

[@michaelwindow87]

@@Kabab but then you have to increase the length of the gimbal creating a longer travel path - unless you're a thumber. But if you pinch or hybrid grip, having it too low means your fingers hit the casing forcing you to lengthen the gimbal by screwing the stick end out further, creating a larger fulcrum/motion of movement over the gimbals arc. I've just been through all this trying to get my RM Boxer comfortable.

[@Kabab]

@@michaelwindow87 yes. Dropped gimbals ~8mm with longer sticks that are the same height as original will yield about 10mm more lateral travel. I made a video on my boxer mods which is exactly this. Brain3D now sells the boxer gimbal drop sleeves.

[@michaelwindow87]

@@Kabab I had lights in mine, but removed them so the gimbal was higher and I could have the stick ends as short as possible without my fingers hitting the casing. With it dropped down I had to extend the gimbals high enough to stop my fingers hitting, but then the throw was too large to be comfortable for me. If I was a thumber I would drop them down as you don't have the issue of your index finger hitting the casing like you do when you hybrid pinch. That's all I was getting at. Horses for courses lol.

[@andrewbt87]

only the Jumper T20S RDC90 has pot gimbals which have better linearity and response, the normal Jumper T20 is still available with hall sensor in the same gimbals and foldable antenna and cheaper

[@Kabab]

Not sure how the response of linearity could be different since it's all governed by code anyway and hall sensors have less friction/moving parts but alright 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@yoyomin]

Rdc90 = marketing gimmick. Nobody will feel the difference. If there is then it's just badly calibrated gimbal.

[@SettekFpv]

It will matter over time! They will get Stickdrift

[@Q1320]

Sounds like they will release an "upgraded" gimbal set like the AGO1 in like 2 months watch lol

[@Kabab]

Well the gimbals isn't the only issue unfortunately. Just the biggest

[@MrKillerHobbes]

they advertise the name of the pot sensors because futaba uses the RDC90 on thier radios

[@Kabab]

Why on earth does futaba use those 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@Kabab]

But at least you've shed some light on the why which makes sense

[@bengordon7635]

you can put the full size AG01 gimbals in that radio its real easy ..... have had the Jumper T pro V1 for a long time and still my daily driver ,, I have been thinking of upgrading but everytime I fly I love that radio its crazy .. grease the throttle rail " has perfect spring tension and height of the gimble I cannot get the radiomaster the same or the AG01 gimbles the cheap ass plastic feels so perfect to me ///// its not a linear feel more analog feel with hall gimbles which I prefer / ,,, I have a full size $450 T16 and it sets on the shelf hmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!! I think over doing things sometimes makes it worse I would rather have something thats twice as quick , lighter , faster response and lasts forever Hall gimbles and super cheap ,, .. I guess Hall potentiometers are like Tone pots where as AG01 pots are like Volume pots more linear

[@Kabab]

The AG01 are not full size. They're not actually any bigger than the default gimbals.

[@bengordon7635]

I am going to stick with my V1 T pro ,, The Plastic full size Hall Gimbals are fine for me and super smooth and I actually like a lighter unit .. the plastics hall gimbles are in some $1000 radios so that cannot be that bad ,, The metal looks nice but i run most my drones cutoff at 30 for racing so very little stick movement @@Kabab

[@aydenh06]

What did I just watch lol RIP that transmitter

[@Kabab]

😂 it's actually great right now but could be a LOT better.

[@NorgeSquad]

Im a pincher too. and I've just decided to go back to the OG Taranis x9d cuz thats the only Rdio that wrked for my pinch grip

[@Kabab]

Still one of the top 5 radios imo. The Boxer does rank higher for me now however. Only after my mods but it is very nice and especially nice not to need some other things shoved in or on the module bay.

[@NorgeSquad]

@@Kabab Do you have a review on the Taranis xd9?

[@Kabab]

@@NorgeSquad it's so old that I don't recommend it anymore. But if someone already has one, you're good to go unless something that is genuinely better exists. That one is the boxer at the moment. It's literally the first radio that's actually better than the x9d. Only after my mods however and only slightly better.

[@NorgeSquad]

@@Kabab I agree. I tried the standard boxer at an event. After all these good comments. But nah. I rather use my x9d as my daily driver

[@MysteryD]

11:20 You mean someone actually uses the little knobs and dials on those giant radios? lol wow. I just thought they were fidget thingys for when your pal's lipo goes forever and youre waiting for him to land.

[@Kabab]

😂 yeah they're nice to have but don't need'em

[@KOrnhOliO1]

I guess wing pilots use them?

[@661FPV]

Hurraquake 2023

[@RcReviewsLt]

Use heatGun to match your grip ;]

[@Kabab]

😂 would need to be REALL hot and my hands would probably mould just as much as the plastic then

[@RcReviewsLt]

@@Kabab just use heat gloves, easy, and nice grip done ;]

[@Kabab]

@@RcReviewsLt dental gloves. Sure 😂

[@geometerfpv2804]

Roogi gets obsessed with the weirdest things..."NONE OF THE GIMBALS ANYONE USES ARE FULL-SIZE"..."NEED THE FULL EXTENSION OF THE STICKS"....."THIN THIN THIN, YOU COULD CHOP 120% OFF THE FRONT OF THIS BABY, WHY DO THEY DO THIS" 😂. Your preferences are so incredibly personal, it's funny to me that people insist on copying your weird takes.

[@Kabab]

Nobody needs to watch anything I make or listen to anything I say. The more time you spend on this stuff, the more you want to improve your gear. I'm personally just disappointed that these manufacturers continue to make the same garbage over and over. If they just pay a little attention, we will have good gear for the same money and effort. If nobody cared or paid any attention, all we'd have are junk toys. The things I and others make get copied because they become popular and the Chinese companies try to make a buck off the heels of the popularity. That's what happens when you have 100% of the manufacturing potential and nearly zero innovation or care. You just look for shit to copy and sell instead of make your own products and actually pay attention

[@geometerfpv2804]

​@@KababI'm just poking fun at you, I know you spend a lot of time thinking out your optimal user experience...you've got to admit it's kind of funny. I actually appreciate how different the Jumper radio is, it feels like a bit of a mold-breaker. Nothing crazy, but it's different.

[@Kabab]

@@geometerfpv2804 yeah they definitely stepped out of the box a bit. Just forgot to take the box with them while they did.

[@KOrnhOliO1]

11:40 "It's just an indication of questionable quality"...

[@jtcustomknives]

Did you not know the T20 comes with the hall sensor gimbal while the T20S comes with the RDC90 Gimbal.

[@Kabab]

I didn't know until someone else pointed it out to me. Then I looked into it and am just confused by the decision

[@jtcustomknives]

@@Kabab yeah me to I don’t know why the choice. I heard a review of saying thy used the upgraded metal gimbals. But thy are not metal lol

[@Kabab]

@@jtcustomknives no they're absolutely not metal at all. The cosmetic ring around the gimbal is metal. Everything else is plastic

[@choppergirl]

99% of my time is spent in the sim, so it sinks or swims on how well it is as a sim controller. Imho. TX-16s was a good radio, but using it as a sim controllers less than ideal. You have to plug unplug it every time you boot it up or it goes into DFU mode or won't boot at all. And zero voltage protection on the USB connectors. Fried out one motherboard already and corrupted one microSD just plugging in USB. Most of your movement action is going to be on the gimbals and the one momentary switch to reset. All the other switches are necessary to clear off the chartfunk off your screen so you can do away entirely with and OSD obscuring your view.

[@yoyomin]

Jumper and QC shouldn't belong in the same sentence. Got 2 jumper radios, both with multiple issues. Poor charging circuit, bad battery holder, etc. Promptly moved to radiomaster with 0 issue.

[@Kabab]

😑 unfortunately this has been my experience with jumper too. I just didn't want to assume it was universal

[@GregKelley]

Did you use AI to make the clickbait image?

[@Kabab]

No I took a picture with my phone. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@divingfalconfpv4602]

I have small hands prob be great for me. 1w and 21700 batteries

[@Kabab]

This isn't a small hand controller. If you are a thumber, it'll work but not ideal. It also only takes 18650 or a 2s.

[@KOrnhOliO1]

It's the quality, Bro. All Jumper gear is low quality, breaks down, and isn't worth buying.

[@WKfpv]

About gimbal range. You say people who actually want to improve and fly better, sorry, but my hands are small, that's why I like a little smaller gimbals, my fingers just don't move that far, is not about wanting to improve. Is my anatomy lol.

[@Kabab]

Yes I appreciate that and understand. You are fortunate to have so many options

[@WKfpv]

@@Kabab what we need is a truly adaptable gimbal, so you and I can set the range we feel right for our hands.

[@Kabab]

@@WKfpv yes that is absolutely what we need and it really does not seem that difficult. The jumper gimbal has all the ingredients, just isn't proportioned and adjusted to work right.

[@burned_esc]

still better looking radio then the boxer

[@Kabab]

Looks great absolutely. Unfortunately the gimbals are just not good.

[@JohnStenborg]

…are you somewhat angry…anger against the poor little defensless radio…

[@bigsmokerc]

I feel like the obsession with 'full range gimbals' is a sort of misleading one. The gimbal range is software calibrated, no? While you aren't using the full resolution of the gimbals (because their travel is limited) when stock.. you are still using full range. Even potentiometer gimbals have a much higher native resolution than is transmitted in software, so there is headroom to spare as far as endpoints are concerned. I think to a newbie, it's worth clarifying that the radio offers full range of control (at least on the gimbals.. the other controls seem questionable). A person using this radio will have full range of control from the gimbals, in stock form.

[@Kabab]

What you describe is not actually how it works. The sensors in any gimbal can sense a range of movement far greater than the rotation of any gimbal. When calibrating in a controller, it picks up whatever range is accessable. There is zero software limit. The actual number of steps is a non-issue. Imo even 256 steps will feel continuous to any human. The benefit here is that your human fingers get more range of motion to modulate what you're trying to do. Imagine driving a car where the steering wheel only turns 60deg lock to lock. That means just 30deg to the right has you doing U turns. This would be pretty much impossible for a human to drive at freeway speeds. This is why it's normal to have 2.5 full rotations on a car from lock to lock. Now look at the gimbals you use to fly. You only get a few centimeters of travel and you're performing ridiculous numbers of 360deg rotations as well as very slight 1deg rotations. Sure we have software to put the movement on a curve but at some point, the difference between no movement and full movement is just to short of a span and your human fingers do not operate on such a tiny range of movement. Now take it a step further and imagine trying to fly smoothly while your riding in a bumpy car or getting thrown around in the car while it's drifting. If you have more range on the stick, the jostles from getting thrown around won't appear in your flying as much and stabilization software can do a far better job. The scenario of flying from a moving vehicle is very common for FPV. I personally enjoy it a lot since you're always coming up on new environment and not just flying circles around yourself.

[@bigsmokerc]

@@Kabab you just said what I said. You have full range, because range is perceived by software - it's arbitrary. You're looking at resolution, not range. Range remains constant. A longer fulcrum means less movement at the sensor, for more movement at the stick end. You get a artificial increase in resolution this way, (perceived as less sensitivity) but the range remains the same. My point is that describing the concept of resolution (and perceived sensitivity) as 'range' can be misleading. People may assume you cannot reach +125\-125 without altering the gimbals - which isn't true. The gimbals aren't defective in this way , they just use a smaller aperture, making them more sensitive than you prefer. I agree about the moving while fpv'ing thing. Working on a video including some of this soon :)

[@yoyomin]

Unfortunately I ordered the T20 before watching this video. Just received it and the build quality is absolutely CRAP. Gimbals feel cheap, upon opening the radio I was grated with a shitshow of messy wires and bad soldering. Gimbal damper leaf spring is made of tin can trimmings, you can easily bent it with moderate force. No way to provide enough resistance to the throttle even with screws already all the way down. This will be absolutely the last Jumper for me. Back to radiomaster I guess.

[@Kabab]

So sorry for the annoyance. I'm actually pretty surprised that no other review I saw mentioned the shockingly poor quality. Good news is that you can swap out the gimbals and it's not that hard. Had news is that the rest is still meh

[@riofpv]

friend you destroyed a good radio, the RDC90 gimbals, they are not used for their sensitivity, they are less precise than a hall, but they return a different feilling, which you may like or dislike

[@Kabab]

That may have been true 10-15yrs ago but it's not quite true anymore since our controls are so ingrained with software. The sticks are merely an interface for human hands and there's loads of software assistance for the rest. The sensors aren't an issue, it's just odd to see them have made that choice in this day.

[@Moneypizzle]

Yeah, makes you wonder these people even use/test the device they design.. 😬

[@Kabab]

I don't think they do. They're less interested in making a good product and more interested in just making something that they can reasonably sell. The review circuit is powerful and even my review will result in a number of people buying it.

[@jas-FPV]

Yeah… seems like just a little rain kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJa8lmOEoNNom6s

[@Kabab]

Note that these bits that the news collects are of the absolute worst of the worst of the worst and usually because that particular area has very poor irrigation or the areas around it have very poor irrigation. The biggest tragedy here is that the entire state is not set up to collect rainwater and preserve it. We are perpetually in the worst drought ever primarily because the state is so darn inefficient at this one aspect. Also, I'm not in those areas I am in Los Angeles and specifically in Hollywood which did not see more than just a typical rain. I definitely feel for those areas that got more and ran into issues however.

[@JappyJan]

so... youre complaining that a thumber focused radio is not comfortable to hold as a pincher? ... yea... nothing wrong about that...

[@Kabab]

No that's not a valid general complaint. It's a personal one. My primary complaint is gimbal quality and overall quality. Take another look

[@_Dav1K]

I'm getting into the FPV drone hobby and trying to solve the radio problem. I've got it down to between the RM Boxer and this, Jumper T20S v2. Even with other reviewers mentioning the QA issues with the T20S, I was leaning towards the T20S because of the combination of full-sized gimbals, in a extremely compact shell. This is an excellent review of the T20S, easily one of the best critiques of the device. Looks like I have to sell myself on the RM Boxer. Additionally, I just returned a RM Pocket. I think the Pocket is actually an excellent radio. Great weight, size, ergonomics and featureset. Unfortunately, too much was cut with the gimbals; far too small which clearly lead to further shortcomings in robustness and customization. A kind of "cargo pocket" would be ideal; larger to support full-size or Zorro-tier gimbals, 1W ELRS TX and OLED would be a great radio!