All Memories of Solas & The Elven Gods | DRAGON AGE THE VEILGUARD (4k)

[@Mr-Rinn]

17:17 - "They made bodies from the earth. And the earth was afraid. It fought back. But they made it forget." - Cole

[@Demetrius900000]

shiiiiiiiiiiiiit

[@16Vagabond]

With this added context I now understand why Solas was so against letting Cole become more human. Solas feels like his choice to become a living being rather than remain a spirit is the very catalyst of all the tragedies that followed. He didn't want the same for Cole.

[@RevanSurik]

Holy fuck, I'd forgotten that line!

[@nevermore7285]

The blight being the broken dreams of tranquil gods is horrific. Honestly, a great origin for what was probably Dragon Age’s main mystery and ties the world together really nicely.

[@hinkelstein1494]

But I really hate how quickly they just established that the Archdemons are just weapons for the Evanuris. Like that's the most boring answer they could have given here...

[@Nomad_03]

Not really. It makes it more restricted, it also lays the blame for everything at the feet of the elfs. In the end it's all their fault.

[@MrGuse]

@@hinkelstein1494 But that's not what the archdemons are? Where in the world did you get that idea?

[@hinkelstein1494]

@MrGuse thats what Solas says

[@Nomad_03]

@@hinkelstein1494 To be fair there's a bit of a confusion on the what is what, because they mix up the taint and the blight constantly.

[@VGirl]

Show, don't tell. Something about the way everyone gathers around the table talking about Solas diminishes the impact of the big plot reveals. Only Bellara's elf-specific dialogue needs to be said by her. The other lines are interchangeable and could be said by anyone. Imagine how much better it would be if the original Inquisition companions were gathered around the table talking about him. None of these people know Solas or have anything to do with him.

[@jshort1691]

Inaccurate. Harding, rook, and varric all know solas.

[@duecedajuice2678]

@@jshort1691 Rook just met solas

[@BuddhaJames08]

The Inquisitor and the party also didn't know Solas at all, either. That was the point of Trespasser. The Qunari knew more about the real Solas than they did.

[@RedAlpha101]

​@@duecedajuice2678solas is in their head. They know solas almost as well as varric and the inquisitior at this point

[@duecedajuice2678]

@@RedAlpha101 doesn't explain how his army magically disappeared

[@Chronoir3]

*More* option in the dialogue The user - let's ignore that.

[@SuperPal-tr3go]

So Solas being a simp doomed the world. Gotcha.

[@Tlevids]

Virgin Solas vs Chad Elgar'nan

[@nevermore7285]

How is that the take away from this?

[@SuperPal-tr3go]

@@nevermore7285 I'm mostly joking but it does seem clear that Mythal was the main motivator of most of Solas's actions beyond even his moral objection towards the other elven gods.

[@jayk9068]

Something very paris of troy and Helen of Sparta abt that. Except paris didn't directly commit genocide or push his own ppl into ruin as directly smh

[@julianprevallet8459]

Mythal potentially murdered by Elger'nan for cheating on him

[@yanderefangirl8317]

After the events of ‘Veilguard’, it makes sense that Solas was doomed from the start. He tried to play God 2,000 years ago and it caused a series of problems for everyone, including his own people losing their powerful empire and making Tevinter the scapegoat. And then all of his actions came back to bite everyone in the butt while he was asleep in the Fade. And once he woke-up, he still didn’t learn his lesson and tried to play God again by destroying all life in Thedas in hopes that the Elves would be superior again. It never occurred to him that his plan would totally backfire and that the Elves would likely repeat the mistakes of their ancestors, enslaving the less powerful Elves and fight amongst each other again. That likely would have happened since the Elves don’t like to bring-up the sins of their ancestors, and Solas is in denial that his people can be just like Humans. There’s also a good chance that almost every Elf would have died when the Veil was torn anyway.

[@BrokenFluorite]

The elves would have certainly died - along with everyone else. There's a page in the Veilguard artbook, that depicts a scene when the Fade is being torn down completely and the wave of magic washes over the world, tearing people's souls from the bodies. It is followed by a note: "life, as Thedas knows it, comes to an end, and the ancient elves return

[@Fenrispro]

@@yanderefangirl8317 Huh so tevinter din cause the blight n evil?

[@bat32391]

Dialog is a bit cringe at times, but the lore implications are fantastic.

[@diargoa7942]

13:39 basically my exact reaction because i always main elf in Origins and Inquisiton

[@darktirkd7395]

You known they did the same thing in Wolf hunt and the revelations were awesome, they feel very flat in this game and I think I known why, the context we were getting makes them awesome adding some much nuance, their is no nuance or real context here just. This is what happened then this is what happened and these is what happened. No idea why or even how just this happened.

[@XDsolution]

This „let’s gather in a circle and talk together” format is so strange. In older narrative we would get characters talking separately to us or reacting to other characters learning something critical to them. This just feels soulless, especially when they calmly accept technically world shattering truths. It’s like characters themselves are theory crafters, and not ppl with limited knowledge and past history and beliefs.

[@debishvebishwish4839]

To be fair the characters would talk amongst themselves outside of this round table cutscene and continue to talk about what they found.

[@IBCollection]

We call this a focus group discussion (FGD). It's a very important tool in research.

[@somethingsomethingsomethin9009]

So... Elves were fighting the world itself, solas severed titans from their spirit; dreams and those became the blight. Gotcha The Blight is the magical part of titans ahm dwarves, separated and reutilized by the elven godlings, with blood magic to control its spawn

[@pugchi5352]

Damn Solas had hair?!?! Crazy 😂

[@sunnyworldproductions4818]

Another memory would be that of Gih creating a new race, crossing elf and dragon. The idea would be to have an army of miniature dragons.

[@IBCollection]

Now that the cat's out fo the bag, the humans are now the center of mystery. If elves were envious of humans and their ability to have a physical form. Where did they come from and who made them? How come they have access to the fade and lyrium just like the elves?

[@warallied]

they not only retconned so many things: Architect, The first broodmother/darkspawn, Avernus' saying that the blight's answer and original source is from the black city. At least, we now know that the black city isnt Arlathan. Let alone all their retcons of inquisition and origins. Honorable mention to Flemeth's word: the reckoning that will see Mythal avenged. Solas' anger at the idea of killing old gods (is it due to darkspawn invading the world? or Drakon's prophecy?)

[@BelieveIt1051]

Retcon means retroactive continuity. That means preceding information that fits the established facts, even if they change the interpretation of those facts. What they did in Veilguard are just outright rewrites of the lore, contradicting what has come before it. Honorable mention to the Orb of Destruction and the other foci. Funny how those orbs, the anchor, or Solas' backstory tied to it never come up in any of these memories. It's like Inquisition never happened.

[@N7Allfather]

@@warallied yes confirming theories over a decade old is "retconning" smdh

[@warallied]

@@N7Allfather that made 0 sense. Re read plz.

[@N7Allfather]

@@warallied if people have been predicting this stuff for over 10 years its not retcons because the pieces have been there the entire time. you just didnt put them together. no wonder you couldnt understand such a simple comment.

[@warallied]

@N7Allfather what are you on about? you should start by reading properly - again No one was talking about "explaination 10 years later of fan theory" The warden's decision at the end of inquisition: exile or join thedas+warden civil war was completly removed. You can argue sementics and technicalities, but this nonsense you're talking about is in your head. Your comment is simple when talking to yourself id say.

[@1stcaptainraldoron538]

Ok so once again, elves are the root of the world’s problems.

[@andrepettersson175]

Tevinter knows whats up. Give the Elves an inch and they will take a mile. MTGA!

[@Grz349]

How did the Titans become the blight? How would the blight be different to any malicious spirit like the one from Inquisition? For that matter how did the Elf spirits get out of the Titans if lyrium is Titan blood? The blight corrupts and infects as it spreads, but none of that has a real connection to the Titans???🧐

[@Demetrius900000]

So where do humans are on the timeline? Were they living same time as titans? Came after? Or are they an offshoot of elves more tied to the "real" world?

[@lorisceleste1860]

@ in Thedas history, the first humans came into the continent almost 8000 years after the foundation of the Elven Empire.

[@Demetrius900000]

@@lorisceleste1860 so how is this possible if elves modeled themselves after humans? And can it be true if so much lore is a lie?

[@andrepettersson175]

​@@Demetrius900000 except only lore that has been confirmed to be true is true. Everything else in all the Dragon Age games is literally made in a way that you are free to question wether established history as written by scholars in Thedas is accurate. In this case it calls into question if humans were already in Thedas and the elves like Mythal says "join them" then what happened to the early humans when the Elven Empires and their gods ruled?

[@BelieveIt1051]

Long story short, BioWare screwed up the lore. Solas' spirit form clearly mentions humans. This is before the evanuris formed a pantheon or went to war with the titans. So humans existed before the ancient elvhen or the veil. Yet there is no human history of such events, as Vivienne confirms in Trespasser. So yeah, BioWare lost the plot.

[@khamok6916]

@@BelieveIt1051 Why would there be human history of such events? Solas creating the Veil basically casused a global cataclysm that reset multiple civilizations. The dwarves have zero history of the Titans, the Dalish were wearing slave tattoos for centuries as a mark of pride, but you somehow think Vivienne would know what happened back then better than Solas did?

[@Keevha]

So Veilguard writers just had to follow the 15year old script that was made in DA:Origins in the Urn of the Sacred Ashes. Kinda explains how this plot twist seemed so well written compared to the rest of the game. Eh, kinda glad my old age theory was right all a long and it came around to the discovery of the blight creation.

[@hunacean]

Where were the writers that wrote these amazing reveals during the rest of the bloody game?

[@Keevha]

@@hunacean tbh, this was spoiled in DA:Origins when you were in Andrastes temple. So these writers had a 15year old script to follow which explains the writing difference.

[@bunniewood]

None of this lore is surprising. They literally just used fan theories from 2015. We expected all this.

[@AulisVaara]

Bad fan theories at that.

[@BelieveIt1051]

@@AulisVaara Debunked bad fan theories at that. But BioWare just stole the theories and didn't read the refutations.

[@Subli8217]

@@BelieveIt1051 What were the refutations?

[@BelieveIt1051]

​@@Subli8217 The answer to that is complicated since there are multiple different memories referenced in the video. Some memories contain refuted fan theories BioWare stole without reading the refutations. Some are brand new revelations that merely contradict established lore or events. And some are things BioWare made obvious in Origins through Inquisition plus the DLCs and fans picked up on correctly. Ask me about a specific memory and I'll give you a more detailed answer. The short answer is this... The taint can't predate the Magisters invading the Golden City, nor could it have always been black throughout human history since witnesses confirm it was golden until the Magisters invaded it. Therefore it can't be the prison for the taint. The Magisters breaching the Golden City and finding nothing means it could not have been a prison for the evanuris. Solas could not have created the entire Veil, and even Vivienne refutes the notion in Trespasser. The Golden/Black City is not part of the Elvhen empire. Harding seems to just state the evanuris prison is the city but has no reason to think so. Even the memory doesn't depict anything like what she describes. Lyrium is not blood from titans. The more plausible answer is that lyrium can grow over time to give rise to a titan. There was a fan theory about a red lyrium titan, but it seems BioWare only stole part of the theory. Red lyrium hasn't been around long enough for a titan to form from it, though Here Lies the Abyss indicated that it was possible it could one day in the message written in red lyrium. And on a side-note, there are additional refuted fan theories in other parts of the game that BioWare stole. Such as the nature of the old gods and the evanuris. But the video doesn't reference any of that.

[@Subli8217]

@@BelieveIt1051 thanks for answer. Can you elaborate about lyrium not being blood of titans? Also where can I read more detailed criticisms of this, with references and stuff? I know the dragon age subreddit is censoring people who criticize the game so idk if that's the best place

[@N7Allfather]

I wish they had paced these throughout the game rather than dropping them all at once

[@debishvebishwish4839]

It depends on you. If you wanna see the memories one by one it’s on you. This is just a compilation video on. youtube. Not to mention you need to explore to get those memories

[@N7Allfather]

@debishvebishwish4839 it didn't give the option to view any until I had them all. The game does in fact drop them all at once

[@debishvebishwish4839]

@ you need to meet the Inquisitor first. Then you can view the paintings.

[@N7Allfather]

@@debishvebishwish4839 I am aware

[@shadow7179]

have to say making the Old Gods be the same as the Elvunaris is really clever and must have been planned from way back in the very beginning. Minus Fen Harel and Mythal, you have exactly seven Elvunaris which is the exact number of Old Gods worshipped by Tevinter

[@thanellen8757]

But it's not lol, it's Marvel/Disney writing here... Oh, you were wrong the whole time trope, it was actually the Elves. So by this logic of writing what I am getting at here is this... Old DA Lore: the Maker created the Blight to punish the world. Solas: Oh you were just dealing with a fraction of its power, and the Elves created it. Tevinter: So we aren't the bad guys for purging the elves? Orlais/Chantry: Or for destroying the Dales. Solas:... It does make me wonder what David Gaider thinks about this load of tripe. For all my antipathy towards him, his codex from DAO was truly a work of art. And now it has come to this...

[@durshurrikun150]

@@thanellen8757 "Old DA Lore: the Maker created the Blight to punish the world" That's just an in universe myth. Just like christianity in the real old, andrastianism is nonsense. "the Elves created it" Some wannabe gods created it. The other elves do not have such power, so no, the genocide that humans committed is no justified. Oh and who released it back in the world? Humans

[@thanellen8757]

@@durshurrikun150 because they were tricked. It makes no sense to seal it away and then have solas change his mind to tear down the veil and release the blight X_X

[@durshurrikun150]

@@thanellen8757 No, they were powerhungry human racists who thought they could become gods. If they were not power hungry, they wouldn't have been tricked in the first place, because they would have ignored the whispers. Solas wanted to keep the Evanuri sealed in prisons, but tear down the veil to allow mortals and spirits to mingle once again. And infact, at least both humans and elves have been suggested to have been spirits originally, who then incarnated.

[@graye2799]

​@durshurrikun150 "just like Christianity in the real world" pff. Whatever bud.

[@anthonyhollister290]

Is elgranan ( sp) the maker ?

[@JamesCourse66]

I want to know what went wrong in Solas’ ritual the first time?

[@pauljeffries4216]

Wait what I've got some of these wolfs nothing happens when I go near the wall

[@spacecommunist1967]

@@pauljeffries4216 You get the option later in the story. You doing the main quests and you'll know when you have the option.

[@Muxxyy]

"They were doing it"???!! What sort of rubbish writing is this??!!

[@B1izzardHawk]

Like people don't say it irl?

[@abbyellis278]

Imagine waiting for Solavellan for 10 years and hearing that shit lol I'd be pissed. Taash sucks

[@AndE667]

​@@B1izzardHawkBut it's not real life, is it? It's a fantasy world

[@Killrog01]

@@B1izzardHawk Not past their 12th birhtday no

[@B1izzardHawk]

@Killrog01 i dunno, I'm over 30 and I've heard people in their mid 20s say it

[@Super88081]

the dialogue choices in the solas killing the titans mural were so stupid, like you have the option as an elf to apologise for "your" people's actions to scout harding, like wdf??? how does any of this shit that happened thousand of years ago and no dwarves even knew about the titans affects harding?? and the worst is you cant even brush it off like lol idk you are forced to say something super sappy no matter what you choose

[@TheAns51]

Exactly! Like some idiots are demanding white poeple of today to apologise to black people because of slavely hundreds of years ago... This game is so full of virtue signaling or something.

[@BelieveIt1051]

Apologize for your ancestors' colonialism! Pay reparations! lol

[@debishvebishwish4839]

@@BelieveIt1051 except in this scene the Ancestor (Solas) is still alive lololol

[@khamok6916]

The bottom two options were you blaming Solas for wwhat he did, how is that sappy? Did you only get the first option or smth?

[@Angrondies]

Mythal diserved her fate

[@mattmagliocca956]

What the hell? They've given away like ALL the major mysteries of the series in this one game. We knew that a lot of these mysteries were connected somehow but why give us all the answers like this? Normally, we get one really big reveal each game. Like Corypheus's existence in 2 and Mythal in 3. Why just... drop all this stuff on us in a series of vignettes like this? They even have a group of people spelling out for us what it all means like the world's lamest vbloggers. They might as well have revealed this all out in the next encyclopedia of thedas that they publish. After this, what mysteries are left to unravel or speculate about in thedas? It feels like they really want to end the series once and for all and are decisively tying up loose ends in a deeply unsatisfying way. Also, I hate the way that the Black City has largely been abandoned as an element of the fade. It was one of the coolest parts of the fade. Now we're actually living in the fade somehow and the place isn't dark and scary or alien at all. It's just deeply disappointing. And the Blight and darkspawn have been changed from a truly original metaphorical concept for disease and contagion and transformed into a generic set of monsters. I can't say I care for these changes at all.

[@miah-y5s]

@@mattmagliocca956 I think they have been hinting at this since Origins due to some details in different dwarven and elven ruins. Inquisition also heavily implied it as well. But explains elves connection to the Fade and magic. Not to mention this puts down a great story for the next game 😀

[@talynhastime9343]

These revelations are far more lackluster and disappointing than the theories fans have been devising for a decade. So boring, so basic, and despite David Gareth Lloyd’s efforts, even he can’t make this sophomoric dialogue work.

[@lizd2943]

Since when do elves love the world of present day Thedas? It treats them like garbage.

[@AulisVaara]

This already starts out lame. A much better story was implied in the older games.

[@BelieveIt1051]

Agreed. And Veilguard contradicts what was shown in Inquisition. Solas had a big problem with the Grey Wardens killing the old gods, but why would he with these new "revelations" that the old god dragons are connected to the evanuris? Solas even admits his mistake in letting the old gods remain in the real world. And if killing them destroys the evanuris in their prison anyway, and doing so helps in weakening/destroying the Veil, which is Solas' goal, then why wouldn't he be on-board with the Wardens in Inquisition?

[@roleplaycentral142]

@@BelieveIt1051 because that would also release the full power Blight locked away with them too.

[@BelieveIt1051]

@@roleplaycentral142 If that's the case, then so would destroying the veil, but he was willing to do that.

[@roleplaycentral142]

@@BelieveIt1051 No, he was going to put them into a new prison, the whole point of the ritual in the first place.

[@debishvebishwish4839]

@@BelieveIt1051 why would you trust anything Solas said, he’s a liar lol

[@thanellen8757]

I hate these expositions! Talk talk talk! Like we're stupid or something! Show no tell! FFS!

[@nerdempress]

I so hate Mythal

[@christianbolze2441]

Its so bad it hurts :(

[@adamsirin7249]

One of the dialogue options had 'ick' in it 🤦🏽‍♂️ And the character design looks as cheap as dota 2 lol. Just quickly designed to look flashy. Totally soulless

[@charlesmitchell8982]

Is it just me or is the Pronoun Patrol's clothing a little too modern for something set in a medieval like period? I mean it looks like they part of a a 21st century medieval cosplay

[@jayk9068]

Just you and judeo Christian society. Hindus had pronouns and non binary genders and gods for millennia. (I'm not really Hindu and just grew up with it.)

[@amazonbleu]

@@jayk9068Well Dragon Age was never based on Hinduism was it? most of the inspiration comes from europe and their mythos….hell andrastianism is basically just christianity

[@jayk9068]

@@amazonbleu the elvhen Pantheon is closer to Hinduism and earlier religions like that. The more modern transphobia trend started by Christianity is closer to the chantry for sure, but they are presented as largely built on lies since there is no actual maker unlike the elven gods. Overall, the question is what about ism since the original question was trying to insinuate that trans people are somehow new, but the what aboutism question is also wrong since the comparison of the older religion is more relevant to the game if anything

[@charlesmitchell8982]

@@jayk9068 What are you taking about? I was referring to the clothing they are wearing

[@jayk9068]

@@charlesmitchell8982 sorry to be unclear. The clothing they're wearing is meant to be a mix of cultures like the game's time period overall. I don't see anything particularly modern about it and more just a random mix of things

[@comicsauce]

Ubisoft Devs: How ugly should Taash be? Ubisoft President: YES

[@badluck3850]

You do realize that this game was made by Bioware and published by EA, yes?

[@comicsauce]

@@badluck3850 Does it matter? They all look alike. Ugly characters and all.

[@Matthew209100New]

this is actually a good back story of Solas and the elves.....WHY DID IT HAVE TO BE IN THIS WOKE GAME

[@Dragonblade722]

It's like there were 9 decent writers who wanted to make a good dragon age game, and 1 diversity hire who wouldn't shut up about their pronouns.

[@SuperPal-tr3go]

@@Matthew209100New What are you talking about? What do you mean by woke? Like... Does trans people being mentioned once in a hundred hour game make it woke and thus unplayable? Is Inquisition woke because Krem was around.

[@Matthew209100New]

@@SuperPal-tr3go Krem was cool and well written, most of the game was badly written, and only 3 past decisions out of 100's only count.

[@samflood5631]

Dragon Age has always been woke since Origins. Why is it such a threat to you?

[@SuperPal-tr3go]

@@Matthew209100New Ok... But once again what does that have to do with being woke? What you just described was limited game choice and vague bad writing? Why even call it woke then? I'm sorry if this is coming across as an attack but I'm really starting to notice people using woke as a shorthand for bad in a way that isn't helpful at all in describing what is wrong with a game. It just makes them come across as bigots whining about gay and trans people existing instead of people with an actual coherent argument.

[@Arionid]

cant have a single heartfelt scene without a rainbow writer sexualizing it 💀

[@silenceisgolden3238]

So Mythal was basically a democrat…