The Jonathan Haidt Interview

(0:00) New format: The All-In Interview!
(0:59) Jonathan Haidt joins Jason and Friedberg: broader themes of his work, gamification and supercharged social media
(12:39) Understanding how humans are wired from an evolutionary biology perspective
(27:22) Haidt's proposals to help younger generations
(33:12) Linking themes and trends in Haidt's books with recent college protests
(48:17) Explaining traditional liberalism and conservatism
(56:55) Lightning Round: Parenting tips, Gen Z employees
Jonathan's website:
jonathanhaidt.com
Buy The Anxious Generation:
www.anxiousgeneration.com/book
Follow the besties:
/ chamath
/ jason
/ davidsacks
/ friedberg
Follow on X:
/ theallinpod
Follow on Instagram:
/ theallinpod
Follow on TikTok:
/ theallinpod
Follow on LinkedIn:
/ allinpod
Intro Music Credit:
rb.gy/tppkzl
/ yung_spielburg
Intro Video Credit:
/ thezacheffect
Referenced in the show:
www.anxiousgeneration.com/tak...
www.azquotes.com/quote/1385350
www.azquotes.com/quote/926752
www.thecoddling.com/chapter-1...
www.anxiousgeneration.com
www.afterbabel.com
letgrow.org
#allin #tech #news

[@allin]

** THERE WILL STILL BE A REGULARLY SCHEDULED SHOW THIS WEEK, BESTIES! this is *additional* content -- enjoy!

[@bsmithhammer]

Jonathan Haidt is a great guest to have on the show, and thanks for pumping out the additional content! 🍻

[@reallunacy]

This is exactly what I had requested, so thank you.

[@Wizard-xt5ld]

Awesome setup! Love both the interviews and regular programming❤

[@FriscoFatseas]

thanks for the extra content, this was a pleasant surprise

[@itsjaynguyen]

Can’t complain free shit

[@sheryaradil842]

Ditched social media last year despite 60% of my leads for my business coming from my platform of 100K+ followers. I walked into my 30’s this year with a stronger sense of self, positive and meaningful relationships, and can confidently say that there isn’t a thing about social media that I miss. My business has actually GROWN despite the temporary dip in revenue. Couldn’t be happier and more excited to be alive. I credit this author for waking me up and giving me the motivation to drop social media. Super glad you guys interviewed him!

[@justmeez2195]

Friedberg is truly in his element here - this is EXCELLENT

[@katiecarroll415]

Next level respect for Friedberg. Check out his interview with Tom Bilyeu, it’s fantastic.

[@justmeez2195]

@@katiecarroll415 thanks so much I will definitely check it out

[@liamclancy7879]

@@katiecarroll415the Tom bilyeu interview was so good. One of my favorite things I’ve listened to in a long time

[@katiecarroll415]

@@liamclancy7879 Boom 💥 love that

[@markc5123]

As a millennial I deleted Facebook in 2018 to focus on my relationships in real life and it greatly improved my life and career

[@BigDawgCAM]

I still have Instagram and Facebook, but I’ve muted about ~90% of people I’m friends with so I don’t have to see all the garbage I don’t want to

[@badlater]

Totally agree. Cut the cord to FB/Insta when I was about 23 and it was a huge win for my mental health. Will never go back to that nonsense. X/KZbin add to my life, Insta and FB were parasitic.

[@abandy6465]

Friedberg is so smart and rational. I really like how All-In is featuring him more and letting him run with things he's passionate about and well researched on. I love how he thinks and I find it very informative.

[@liamclancy7879]

He’s my favorite. Was great on impact theory podcast a few days ago. Like 3 hours of all friedberg was amazing

[@VitalityExpress]

Even the fact that he is wearing a white shirt instead of hiding quietly in black in most all-in podcast. Saw him come to life in recent Impact Theory guest and realized how smart and passionate he can be.

[@Natalie-tf1ze]

@@liamclancy7879I need to go watch it now

[@ypqpy]

Learn how to spell rational, dude 😜

[@abandy6465]

@@ypqpy Yeah you are right. Good catch. On the phone, wrote this out quickly and didn't spell check. Thanks

[@aidan5097]

Friedberg needs to read Hayek’s The Road to Serfdom if he wants to understand current Liberal thinking and where it went ‘wrong’.

[@nbultman_art]

New intro is 🔥

[@allin]

yung spielburg went crazy on this one

[@JasonCalacanis]

SHOUT OUT YUNG SPIELBURG

[@94nolo]

agreed!

[@manishbaghel3291]

@@allin would be nice to extend it a little bit to include the drop

[@foregroundtreble05]

They're clean fr

[@josiahclagett7369]

Jonathan might be my favorite thinker alive right now. I can't think of a single thing I disagree with. I love his work for the same reason I love All-In: clear-headed thinking on complex topics amidst chaos. Kudos.

[@TGenoRock]

I largely agree, but when Jonathan suggested that the decision to not go along with a crass attempt at simply proclaiming immigration success via some fake "compromise", Jonathan was clearly naive... Don't need to be a Repub to see through the scheme... the end game for Dems is to build a forever power grab with a massive influx of voters... illegally doing so. They must pay a massive political price for the destruction to our society.. toss em out of office.

[@bryanmorrow587]

Would have liked to see Chammath and Sacks here

[@s.flanders]

Sacks didn’t think this conversation was relevant to him since he forgot he had children.

[@bsmithhammer]

@@s.flanders 🤣🤣

[@goldreverre]

@@s.flanders brutal... lol

[@tech1964]

i'm guessing they're trying this because there are lots of interviewees that will not interview with conservatives. Trump will interview with anybody. Very few people have the stones to do that.

[@durlov5]

I like the change up. They should try different pairs for different guests. I'd be curious to see the dynamics of the changes.

[@haroldwarner4337]

Years back, I read Coddling of the American Mind on a flight from London to LA. It’s supposed to be polite decorum etc. and I couldn’t help myself: I’m talking out loud, “Yes, that’s right! You nailed it. Oh my, how good is this.” Then sharing snippets with the flight attendants etc. We just tailored 3 services/messages around The Anxious Generation. Real success.

[@DayintheLifestories]

Best explanation of social media vs Netflix that i've ever heard. Learning things like that tend to change me forever, even if just in a small way.

[@zacharydaniels3186]

Super interesting. Super important. I actually like the format because it allows the person being interviewed more time to speak. Less cluttered

[@mstrylax]

Excellent interview. Raised my kids (34-24) just as this was developing. Thankfully in front of the wave. Lots to worry about for today’s parents.

[@ngbrother]

So great to have this extra content. Lots of value here for me. In particular, I expect I’ll spend many hours on Let Grow and reading the books that I haven’t already read. We are part of a home school community co-op with a “no Smart phones” commitment. Having an official policy as an organization makes it easier for community members to self select.

[@marthajohnson2775]

This was wonderful! I felt like I was talking to my dad again. It's mostly common sense. He said the same things. In a nutshell: don't be afraid of something new, something scary, something difficult. Make mistakes. Learn to lose so you'll know how to win. (Empathy.) Go to work. Leave home at home. I loved this interview. If all your interviews are as enjoyable as this one your new format will be very successful. Thank you Mr. Haidt for a delightful discussion!

[@clayblythe]

Love that you are doing more content and switching it up

[@gandemeygeraud]

This format is INCREDIBLE. please continue. Thank you for creating the best content really on the internet

[@tkoborny]

In 2016 I ditched social media. I found it exhausting. Many post every single aspect of their lives even personal things that they probably wouldn’t have made public prior to social media.

[@saffyjanes8875]

You are commenting on social media right now. 👍🏻

[@samgraham8430]

@@saffyjanes8875 Without oversharing, which was the point sherlock.

[@applepeel1662]

Man antifragility is genuinely important, if you get a panic attack when you’re asked to present in a meeting then there is something seriously wrong in your psyche

[@sehanpunchihewa2945]

Extra episode? We're tooo lucky!

[@davidspray9939]

I learned more about Friedberg in this one episode than I did in the prior 50! His fair allocation of time just seems to get steamrolled by Sacks and Chamath. Nevertheless, I also missed Sacks and Chamath. If this had been a regular episode, I would have felt short changed. But because it was a BONUS episode, it was like playing with the house’s money. All upside! I can’t wait for Sacks and Chamath to team up for one, as well as the other 6 permutations of 2 besties…

[@roberthuismans3533]

I'm 50 but grew up a metal head, I'm happily married a goth for 20 years. Our entire MO growing up was to reject and scoff at modern pop culture and their unthinking group mentality. Whatever happened to the non-conformists and counter-culture youth? This is depressing.

[@nedhill1242]

Goths are conformists. All the weirdos are conforming. The jocks and average kids were and are the most open minded non-conformist and are most likely to question authority and least likely to drink the kool-aid.

[@saffyjanes8875]

There was no where for us to gather. All spaces became mainstream cause of internet. Indie clubs closed due to gentrification. Can’t exclude people anymore. Even tho exclusivity is how we created alternative culture.

[@nedhill1242]

@@saffyjanes8875 Indie clubs would’ve been around if they were still popular. Gentrification doesn’t have anything to do with it. If the business is there, people will open a club. How are you even defining that? Because where I live in the south particularly Charleston there are numerous music venues that provide all types of music, including alternative and Indie.

[@Jeremy-Ai]

Half of the All in are advisors to the government The other half are apparently focused on advisors to the family. Well… I … cant even. I can’t even express how proud I am of you guys. Set the example stay united. The world needs good examples of male leadership across all things that have been lost to lies. I truly appreciate what you are trying to achieve. Even if all of you can’t be in the same room at the same time. All in, Stay united. Always. Take care Besties 😘 Jeremy

[@CoachJJ]

My problem with the framing of this is it’s excluding the affects on ALL PEOPLE, adults aka the parents and grandparents and relatives of these kids. All while ignoring the historicity showcasing the adaptive nature through technological Rubicon crossings.

[@dmora7643]

Trump is a moderate. Haidt is wrong about how he characterized him. As for immigration, Trump has repeatedly stated he is for legal immigration. This is in line with the GOP’s position for decades. He is not strong on his political knowledge.

[@Thomas...191]

Trumps rhetoric is far from what you can describe as moderate. He has spurned many norms, which some feel is refreshing... I don't... lol

[@texomajohn2916]

When I first saw this I rebelled, but I gave it a chance. I was wrong it was both educational and entertaining. Jonathan as your first guest was a great choice. Keep up the great and much needed work.

[@jmeden]

I’m very skeptical that new norms will solve the problem. Parents in the US are too busy chasing their own form of success and status to fully appreciate the scope of what’s happening to their children, and to do something difficult to address the problem.

[@markmui]

Really enjoyed this chat. I've watched a lot of Jon Haidt's videos, you guys have framed his work/ideas in a unique way. Pls do more of this format, I got a lot of value out of it

[@toddhansen3131]

Exactly. I've heard a lot of interviews with Haidt and they are often repetitive. This one was a lot fresher and more interesting than the typical book tour interview format.

[@timtatum1]

Jonathan Haidt is the best! I read The Righteous Mind about 10 years ago. It changed my life. One of the best books I've ever read.

[@Jay-eb7ik]

Agreed. Easily top 3 for me.

[@karolpelc3956]

Great idea besties!! I like that with new format we get more podcast to watch!! It’s always a great pleasure 🎉

[@WatsonSCGC]

Brilliant. Enjoyed the duo taking this on, and the other two guys taking the bench.

[@mmmfriday]

How come these talks never give any specific examples of the right going too far? Or right leaning institutions? They just claim, "the right is obviously out of control too" but they never ever give specific examples.

[@user-ov8pz4nn3q]

let me say this by first saying I completely agree with you, but lets be honest - this is a right wing podcast. this episode could be categorized as true centrist, but there's a lot of cognitive bias happening at the same time from the moderators, which is.. normal, I mean we're all people. but the moderators are conservative republican, there is not a democrat or a different gender or tax bracket in the conversation - literally ever.

[@itsbdullah]

This was a great interview given how much the interviewers care and have sat with the content. No need for interviews just for the sake of interviews, but this was great.

[@jesseberlinjames]

This was a phenomenal interview. Looking forward to seeing more of this format guys!

[@tomasbrazil123]

This new type of podcast is awesome. Jonathan H is fearless and honest. Great to see how this pod is just broadening the topics. Non woke media is on fire.

[@hollyambrose229]

LOVE LOVE perfect choice! Wish all the besties were in. He can heal our divide like no one else .

[@EdDebbieBarron]

Really enjoyed the All Interview of Jonathan Haidt. Please continue this type interview along with your regular All In podcast.

[@Rojosi]

I watched a JH lecture about 6 yrs ago, profoundly influenced my parenting, a big reminder of how independence is so important in development, along with ‘storytelling’ rather than dictation have helped us raise resilient, connected and hopeful kids. 👏 Bravo and Thank you !

[@doinitforthestreets]

Great work guys. I could listen to a new interview from All In everyday of the week!

[@julieshaffer7140]

So glad I found this podcast.

[@sarahg2653]

Y'all did him dirty--that thumbnail looks like a mugshot of Jonathan, lol. Btw, great guest. Haidt is always fun to listen to.

[@jennifertong135]

This is so important… I know many parents who are so terrified and confused by where their children’s mental health is going. They can’t relate and a desperate for answers. Understanding how it happened is the first step. Then MAKE CHANGE!!

[@jordanwade9075]

Friedberg crushed this interview! Getting Haidt on the show is amazing.

[@user-dt2wu2ol3e]

Love this idea for series of focused interviews. Look forward to future topics. Episode with Haidt was extremely interesting and informative. I like the implied format of the interview and should IMO be the template for the series: start with the general topic as background, discuss case studies, then end with implications and/or examples for applying or better understanding. Great job guys.

[@rcwilliams5537]

Wonderful conversation, especially the last period guys. Thanks for putting in the time and sharing here.

[@gator1salsero]

I don’t generally comment on videos, but this was excellent! Very helpful for a dad raising young kids. Thank you

[@MichaelThomasDev]

Perfect now we get the best of both worlds - interviews, without missing out on the the news round table

[@richardsieben815]

Been in the SV tech business since 1984, enjoy the weekly All in pods and your insights both inter-industry and societally. Today's topic and interview format was on point.

[@friarnewborg9213]

HELLO to Listeners in ASIA! Especially in the Philippines. Hope to see some of you at the Manila Meetup on THU.

[@aimeekeel]

30:38 yes… this is what I have been advocating for for years. This is how I raised my kids, and they were wonderful and are productive, thoughtful adults who contribute to society in positive ways. Other parents would always ask me how are your kids so polite, kind, smart, responsible, etc. I would tell them this strategy, and most of them wouldn’t do it, because they were so worried about helping their kids to fit in and being their friend, rather than being their parent who guides them to be the best person they could be.

[@mananpatel7752]

more interviews like these please

[@rogerpatterson4502]

This was probably the best interview I have seen this year! Kudos

[@MegaAshfire]

As a 28 year old Indian I have been a victim of screen time. I do see a lot of symptoms in me and my peers. The screen addiction is omnipresent here as well. Although family based social structure helps children to be more confident

[@cherylheard1969]

Loved the interview! Great to have less people and hear the interviewees. Switch out the people for different discussions. Keep it up!

[@friarnewborg9213]

Here's what we should be pondering... Replacing the word "Victim", with a word that may be more accurate in some cases: "LOSER." This reminds people of the Agency that those who have not succeeded in some way have for their own lives. If they take responsibility for their outcomes, they can often "manufacture" greater Success. And turn from Loser's failure, to Winner's success. Flooding the Universities with people who take little responsibility for their own lives, was a huge mistake.

[@apester2]

I loved the concept of the interview and I am stoked that you got my favourite author as the guest. His book "the rightious mind" is a book everyone should read. I have gifted more than 10 copies to friends.

[@kavelenko6501]

Some men see what is, and ask 'Why?' I see what might be, and ask 'Why Not' - Robert Kennedy (1925-1968) Some men see things as they are, and say why. I dream of things that never were, and say why not. - George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)

[@MartinQuinn-b1t]

Wow! Yes I missed Sacks and Chamath and I think they would have added to what was already an amazing conversation. Understand the 4 on 1 arguement too. One of my favourite ever outputs from the All In Pod. I'll be sharing this far and wide. Thank you for brining Jonathan on.

[@lindarjaobsen]

This was a great interview! I have four Gen Z grandchildren so I found this very informative. Thank you so much!

[@deirdrewalsh4177]

Loved this interview, a lot of very profound societal issues were brought into focus with some ideas around possible solutions. This conversation offered hope in what is a chaotic and disturbed situation that most western nations are now facing.

[@lukepaterson8323]

Oooh, new intro. Love the refresh besties.

[@georgealami6366]

Loving the additional content 🐐🐐

[@M0RGOTH-BAUGLIR]

I love this. I think I'd listen to anything Friedberg finds worth spending his time talking about. Friedberg is consistently interesting and insightful. I'll take as much Friedberg as I can get. A break from the Sacks' incessant political browbeating is great too.

[@pixelricebowl]

This was a great interview! I was very happy to see that the hosts had not only read Haidt's newest book, but had read some of his other important literature as well and were able to intelligently weave it into the conversation. It's a strong format and I hope you keep it up.

[@kayodeojetola1947]

I really enjoyed the interview. Please bring on more guests for more nuanced conversations.

[@DumbeztGuyInTheRoom]

Thank you for taking the time to shine a light on this fellas, great dialogue and insights.

[@phillipnewman159]

Not a big internet commentor but want to give feedback. LOVE this concept. Great interview and glad it doesn't impact typical show. Will watch both and think you will find success with this model. I shared multiple times already

[@saraibowers4617]

Loved this. Missed having other besties perspective but appreciated getting this information!

[@liamgell]

Good timing, I deleted social media 16 days ago. Feel so much lighter.

[@bradapotamus]

GREAT interview guys. I already have all of his books, and there are fewer issues more important than what he has to say on these things. Thank you for sharing 🙏

[@a0abes]

yes. do more of these. (I held to be the highest compliment I was ever given, and only give it rarely)

[@k54dhKJFGiht]

Much needed conversation Thank you.

[@justpro7]

This won’t get a lot of views. But it’s the best idea out of this pod in awhile. This is my fav episode. More of the smartest man and the best moderator. 😊

[@benditovicentecosta1710]

Today I was just thinking about how as a kid I've always dreamed to have as much money in my pocket as u need. I've always dreamed of being rich. I am now 23 years old and this interview deeply resonates with me and my experience so far. I can’t tell how many times I enter YT shorts and would swear I just watched one video, but in reality, I watched 12+. Now I have no social media installed on my smartphone. But I try not to guilt the tool, but the person using it (me).

[@sandybayes]

This was fantastic and so helpful! I hope others will share these thoughts and ideas so that the great current divide will ease. This helps the “others” to understand the “others”. The raising of children segment toward the end is a goldmine!!!

[@twisterli9177]

The moment when you realise that All-In has always been JCal interviewing Chamath and Sacks.

[@JasonCalacanis]

Thanks pal… if you meant that as a compliment! 😂😂😂

[@twisterli9177]

@@JasonCalacanis yeh just joking. I think you guys are wrong though about Trump. He's the moderate right. Moderate left can't give far left the power then claim to be the middle ground.

[@collinvine]

I enjoyed this 2 on 1 format for interviews. It felt much more conversational and it flowed better, whereas the 4 on 1 always felt too chopped up with each bestie asking questions that often diverged from the previous topic. Good change.

[@ZachBond-007]

Fantastic. Took viewers feedback from Altman/Sandberg episodes and spun new content out of it. What a channel.

[@dkgong]

I've read The Righteous Mind and The Coddling of the American Mind. Both great books and very insightful!

[@PatricioEchenique]

Guys, what a great interview!! I love this format. Thank you!!

[@omarows]

Old intro was better got me more pumped up

[@user-fr6zz9wo3s]

Really informative flow of conversation, Thanks All In Pod for the great interview, I’m a big fan of all your work

[@nadavbro1]

Thanks for this interview. I wish this type of conversation would be widely adopted.

[@stevecornpops]

Huge All In Fan, now a HUGE Jonathan Haidt fan as well... Amazingly well done y'all!

[@marthajohnson2775]

I always enjoy your podcasts. I think these interviews will be excellent as well. Way to go Besties!

[@staieraphael8403]

0:08 proud of the incremental increase in production value, great hire boys

[@andresnolansantino7761]

More All-In content, the better! Thank you gents!

[@emranomar9303]

grat topic. great format. i liked it. as a father of a 5 years old girl i am very concerned with the pressure from "the outside", this is the battle of parenthood now days.

[@englishandthebeautyoflangu3610]

My theory developed from university days is that psychology has replaced philosophy the same way science or tech have replaced religion. Philosophy is expansive, it requires that one consider all angles equally and thereby balance is achieved. Whereas, for me, psychology and sociology are reductive and tend to categorize thereby reducing experience to subjective analysis; over simplifying, dividing and in a sense destroying the thing itself in order to study it. Philosophy, actual philosophy not some sociological version, needs to be reinstated as the premier system of learning.

[@OctoberSkiesBenediction]

Well stated.

[@stephenpicciotto]

Let’s do this! Big Boy Podcast!!

[@willzsportscards]

I've been saying everything he's been saying for years. Pretty much agree with all he said. I'd push the age for social media up to 18 though. Let the brain mature as much as possible before being subjected to that garbage. re: evolutionary biology...if you guys like this topic...the big guy to interview on this is one of my old professors...Robert Sapolsky. He'd be a great interview.

[@lisaharper1827]

Excellent interview. I have read The Anxious Generation and it is an important book for our time. Thank you!

[@liamclancy7879]

This was awesome. Please keep doing these. Every video doesn’t need to be record breaking in order to help the channel and platform. I LOVED this.

[@tracysurf]

Whoa, this was incredibly rational and intelligent. The world makes a bit more sense now. Great job guys!

[@DiligentPursuit]

Haidt is a treasure. Wonderful interview. Thanks.

[@rantos9]

I love Chamath and Sacks but this format without them is excelent! Friedberg, wich was somewhat muted on the main show, really shine in this format. Love it! Keep doing it, it's great!

[@TheVictoryDegree]

New episode on a Tuesday?? Am I dreaming?

[@srirambalasubramanian3996]

This was great. As a parent of young kids, i found this very useful

[@joniharperlujan2534]

Love this format for interviews!

[@MarnixTroudes]

Great interview! Please do a long form interview with Balaji Srinivasan on the decline of the American empire. Friedberg would thrive in that convo

[@brandonwalker3315]

Great idea. Having Balaji on the pod would be epic.

[@rantos9]

As a Balaji fan I gotta say I think he lost the plot since he left America. He can't see any flaws on his theories of how the East will rise and America will fall even when contradicted by facts, he only makes more convoluted theories to confirm his feeling. And he keeps making them more and more complicated.

[@MarnixTroudes]

@@rantos9 have you visited the East?