ARB Jack Vs Hi Lift Jack: Which is better for overlanding?

[@justjeepin]

Sounds great until I saw the price... $771.40... no thanks!

[@BobbityBob19]

WTF? $771? It better come with a couple of strippers and a case of beers and tequilas for that price.

[@khaled6100]

Thank god i didn't regret buying hi-left jack

[@adamnelson4050]

Price update they are now 816 on Amazon.... no thank you.

[@JEEPLIFE64]

Nice jack if it came in around $200 not the rich mans price tag it has now. I've been using a hi Lift for 40 years and they do a lot of things for a fraction of the cost!!

[@kenuber4766]

Lot more to a Hi Lift jack than being shown here.

[@jerryquintana2508]

The ARB is a nice peice of kit. But honestly I think its over priced. Id pay $150 maybe $200 but almost $800 is crazy.

[@NathanBake]

I would have been happy with either one when I was stranded in the sand with an old bottle jack. Needless to say, my off road checklist has grown, now including the ARB Jack!

[@explrx4678]

Great video!! I like the ease of use with the ARB, especially the size and weight, but not the price. I think that where it falls short is the biggest point. While the Hi-Lift and all handyman style jacks are incredibly dangerous to use, they can be used in a lot of different ways. I think it's the most valuable as a come-along. The stability of the ARB is impressive. I'd be interested to see if Hi-Lift comes out with a new foot after they see ARB's solution. Thanks for putting this together!!

[@574130]

Never seen anyone make such a ridiculously obviously partisan video.

[@samweber8090]

www.cnn.com You sure about that?

[@cpgeorge2518]

That ARB jack is expensive but pretty awesome too. It’s easy to use and to let the vehicle down is simple. You can’t go wrong with either one but I will buy the ARB.

[@TheseusTitan]

As of 2021, the ARB Jack is $872.00 vs $97 for the High Lift.

[@kurtjanzen7391]

I’ve been using the same hi-lift jack since about 1981. I’ve never had to do anything other than lube it once in awhile. I’ve righted rolled vehicles, pulled stuck vehicles, jacked sheet metal away from tires and I’ve even used it to change tires. You make it sound more difficult to operate than it is. They are dirt simple and will last forever with minimal care. I like the idea of the ARB. There have been similar ones around for decades. Two things are a dealbreaker with the ARB; only usable near vertical and the $800 price. Although if given one I would use it, but not give up my hi-lift.

[@ironsurvival7011]

I’ve seen inexperienced people mess themselves up with hilift Jack. Simple but not first simple and can be catastrophically dangerous if an individual has never used one. Nevertheless they are tried and true and extremely versatile

[@kurtjanzen7391]

@@ironsurvival7011 agreed.

[@BlindIo42]

One major advantage to the Hi-lift is the accessories. I used my Lift Mate (jacks from the wheel) to get a beached vehicle off a rock. It was much easier and safer than pulling, winching, or jacking from the body/frame.

[@HarrySituations]

ARB already came out with a larger base for their jack, and I would expect more accessories in the near future. For the record, your Lift Mate and Hi-Lift's Bumper Lift, which are both really handy accessories when you don't have steel bumpers or rocksliders, will fit on the foot of the ARB Jack.

[@jimmyjimmy951]

“You don’t want to put your hand behind here” and demonstrates by putting his hand behind the jack! Setting up the lift to ensure stability and a vertical lift is always the key to a safe lift. A bit more practice and following critical safety rules will have the farm jack serve you well for years to come. ARB NEED TO DROP THE PRICE OF THIS THING AND MAYBE I WOULD CONSIDER IT.. Thanks for the demonstration..👍🇦🇺

[@rromero1318]

I still would choose the night lift because it works even when the ground is not flat

[@AllTerrainFamily]

They both work then the ground is not flat.

[@disabledarmyveteran]

$800.00 for a JACK ? That’s way too high cost wise. I will wait until the price gets around $400.00 or 50% off the price.

[@chapmanmccollum6291]

It’s true….altho I’ve used my hi-lift for years for many things…to change tires, lift mowers, pull vehicles out of the mud by attaching to a nearby tree, etc….and haven’t had any issues, there’s PLENTY of reasons for some folks to stay the hell away from em. They are dangerous as SH_T, especially if ur not a safe, very cautious person. If ur careful, or tedious as I am, u’ll be fine. But my god, don’t listen to these folks saying they’re not dangerous at all….bc these things can either chop ur damn head off OR drop a damn 10,000 lb truck on ur a__ when the jack leans too far and slips out from under whatever ur lifting. That being said, I’m a careful person so, I’ve never had a problem. And mine has helped me out so many times I couldn’t possibly put a number to the amount. But that experience has showed me just exactly what COULD happen with these things. So, any younger folks, just make sure u got an experienced dude with u at least. Btw…..I love that other jack u have. It could be the perfect jack for what I do, no doubt. Would LOVE to have one but, ummmmmmm, $800?! Nawwwww dawwwg, I guess I’ll just have to stick with my hi-lift for now….😎 Nice video.

[@DrengrJeep]

Kick the base of the Jack towards the Jeep so as you lift the Jeep, the Jack is straight up and down and not at an angle. That will prevent the jack moving towards the body panels.

[@KnightDriveTV]

Only 800 bucks..I was thinkin it'd be more like 4800.00....what a great deal.............. : \ ......

[@LHRtoJFKconcorde]

Very clever hybrid bottle jack/Hi lift.... $750+ ... must be targeting a different demographic than I. (Perhaps the costs are just too high to make this economically feasible. No matter how good an idea is, sometimes the numbers just don’t add up)

[@jwsmr2]

Why does the ABR Jack have a sticker WARNING: Not for tire removal or maintenance! AND why is that not mentioned in this video. ???? 🤔 ???? It's $800+ dollars, what's it for?! Come on maaaannnn.

[@Terruhcutta]

If I wanted a jack, a bottle jack with a larger base is much better than either the ARB or hi-lift. The hi-lift has a larger variety of uses, and the “instability” can be used to lift and “roll forward” a vehicle that’s been high centered. $850 jack, yikes 🤣

[@AllTerrainFamily]

Yeah, I’ve seen a lot of sketchy recovery techniques like that. I put that one in the same category as riding on the bumper to keep a rig from tipping. It works, but isn’t something I’d ever do.

[@Terruhcutta]

@@AllTerrainFamily Riding on the bumper...that's a great idea! Kidding of course...Have you looked into safejacks? They are a company that makes extensions and accessories for bottle jacks. Pretty neat stuff!

[@AllTerrainFamily]

@@Terruhcutta YES. I really like the Safe Jack. I think that's the best option.

[@IGI-MAN]

$800 buck?! No thanks!!! With the Hi Lift you can do more things, like pulling the vehicle, pulling stumps of the ground.

[@jake-mv5oi]

Looks like a nice piece but for that kind of coin, I'm out. High lift and bottle jack for me. Hopefully they'll get some competition to cut the price in half.

[@williamlee7782]

I'm the kind of guy that'd drop $ on gear for my 4x4 but at close to $900, I just can't justify spending this kind of money for this tool. I've many ARB products and would love to have this. When I read that you can't even store it sideways as per instructions that was already an issue for me. And if ARB is afraid ppl will bump the lever when stored sideways (fluids will discharge), why didn't they install guards around it? ARB makes some good stuff but this one detail is a bit off from the brand's reputation. There is also no mounting (lockable) apparatus to place around our rigs for the Jack. Meanwhile, there's a plethora of options to mount a hi-lift jack. Then again, at this price point, it'd be a hot item for five finger thieves if stored externally on our rigs. For what it's worth, I'd consider if it was half it's current retail price.

[@rshutterbug47]

Really Good Video

[@jeromeburrasca6710]

So, frame mounted rock sliders are a must for a full size Suburban or pickup for these to work?

[@AllTerrainFamily]

Yeah, so that’s the rub. You need a bumper or sliders. For a full size truck I’d use the bumpers before sliders, but a jackable bumper is an after market accessory these days.

[@jeromeburrasca6710]

@@AllTerrainFamily Yup, and they add a bunch of weight. It's soo easy to fall into the trap of putting too much crap on your rig. Lol

[@AllTerrainFamily]

@@jeromeburrasca6710 They do. And our 4Runner is lacking in this area. Thankfully, the E rated tires we run haven't blown on us. But if they did, we'd have trouble lifting the vehicle with out stock jack. In my opinion it's weight worth carrying.

[@jeromeburrasca6710]

@@AllTerrainFamily I've seen some lighter design bumpers from Desert Designs (more like a prerunner style) then the huge heavy Ranch Hand bumpers. But, in Northern Nevada there's always the chance of hitting a wild horse so maybe heavier is smarter.

[@johnaustin2276]

So if you don't have after market bumpers and rock sliders then cut a couple 4x4 pieces of wood and a bottle Jack will work fine.

[@darrenpinehurs3398]

I’ve watched 4 different videos in a row now and not one have actually lifted the vehicle hi enough to remove the tire lol, they all stop short, starting to wonder if it can actually lift hi enough

[@AllTerrainFamily]

We did in this one.

[@ronfox5519]

I had the same thought. Also, it looks like it has the same stroke no matter which starting point you use. I would guess that the stroke is 2/3 to 1/2 the length of the unit. If so, stroking out could be a very significant problem.

[@AllTerrainFamily]

That’s a feature. A hi lift looses travel the farther up you start.

[@NunYa953]

Other than the price, the deal breaker for me was that Jack has to be stored upright.

[@AllTerrainFamily]

Used upright. It can be stores laying down.

[@NunYa953]

@@AllTerrainFamily You are not correct. ARB says to store it upright or it may leak. And from what I've heard from a few people who bought one, it leaks like crazy if it's not stored upright.

[@aarontharris]

Pneumatic vs Non-Pneumatic... No contest. I will take the one that won't leak. Hi Lift Jack for me.

[@AllTerrainFamily]

*hydraulic. But rust is the leak weakness of the hi lift.

[@aarontharris]

@@AllTerrainFamily Oops! Sorry, you're right hydraulic -- but rust prevention is easy with some care and very repairable, I wonder how predictable a failure would be with the ARB and can it be repaired on trail. If a seal broke, not sure what you could do about it.

[@AllTerrainFamily]

I don’t know, but most of us use a jack so infrequently that regular maintenance isn’t likely.

[@aarontharris]

​@@AllTerrainFamily In my case I keep the Hi Lift Jack mounted to the interior, so the only maintenance mine sees is after I actually used it (sometimes). I don't worry about rust. Not sure why anyone would keep their jack mounted to the outside of their rig long-term. Maybe because it looks cool? If that's the case then the Hi Lift wins hands own ;)

[@swissarmychainsawadams9541]

Hi-lift pro tip - Open the door.

[@brightfalls6788]

*The ARB is $830

[@lights80088]

Absurdly, way to expensive to replace the Hi-lift jack. I'd rather put the extra money in my 401K for retirement, I'll stick to my age old jack.

[@AllTerrainFamily]

Maybe disability insurance or life insurance?

[@TX-oo2rn]

OMG.... The point to use the jack on the trail, not get jacked at the counter... Great concept but seriously gouging the market..

[@ttoddh1]

I am currently in Canada looking at the price of the ARB Jack and they want $1,200 on Amazon and $860 USD from ARB. For that price I can hire 6 linebackers to lift the Jeep for me. There's having a good idea and making sales, then the are the jerks who want to make a million dollars all within only a few sales. Great idea, poorly executed. As far as the hi-lift. If you are not competent in its use, do not blame the tool you are trying to use, especially to demonstrate.

[@paulbartsch1223]

You don’t look very safe with the hi lift jack. Maybe you shouldn’t use it. Mine is over 30 years old and still going fine. I bet the arb won’t be going in another 30 years.

[@AllTerrainFamily]

Can’t wait to see your how to video!

[@rayfisher6869]

Sounds like a cnn report

[@dirtyoff-roadaustralian5525]

I thought you knew nothing about using the ARB jack But you could show the unit off in full detail and even the release red button to lower Your advertising is deceiving Tell the truth 👎🏼

[@AllTerrainFamily]

I said I’d never used it. I i just watched Harry demo the jack.

[@Br1mston3]

Somebody's trying to sell us an ARB Jack.

[@our12silly]

Your fingers are incredibly strong. ummmm.

[@dlc2724]

feel i'm watching a infomerial

[@marcusmayhemadventures6479]

I've been thinking about trying out one of the exhaust bag jacks. Mophorn 4 Ton Inflatable Car Road Exhaust Air Jack 4x4 www.amazon.com/dp/B07C8B8XXG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_ZemwDb6836312

[@AllTerrainFamily]

I think those are only an advantage on soft surfaces.

[@marcusmayhemadventures6479]

@@AllTerrainFamily only time I've used a highlift was once in deep snow, and twice in deep mud so I would probably be fine with that since the bags look a lot safer. I almost died everytime I have used a highlift and have seen a window break and a guy get stitches from the handle slipping.

[@markzurlo1787]

You're making this sound and look like an infomercial, at 800.00 that's way too steep.

[@johnterpack3940]

I have never owned a hi-lift and never will. I don't trust them and they require a host of accessories to make them useful. I just don't see the money in the ARB jack. Sure, it looks like a great tool. But it's just an upside-down bottle jack. Why does it cost as much as a scissor lift? A $40 bottle jack with an extension will do exactly the same thing.

[@AllTerrainFamily]

Look into Safe Jack. Much better than bottle, safer than high lift, cheaper than ARB.

[@johnterpack3940]

@@AllTerrainFamily Yeah, now that's what I'm talking about. An entire kit for less than half the price of just this bare jack. I'll be sending a note to Santa. Thanks.

[@marksmith5994]

The price is just crazy, no thanks.

[@HuntrPat]

$833 compared to$80-$100 Hmm!

[@wilburpost7977]

Wow, you have to clean and lube the Hi-Lift? Well, that's definitely a non-starter.

[@robertWohlers]

"A" for video effort... But, in my opinion, D to F for safe and knowledgable use/demo of the Hi-Lift Jack. Not enough "real estate" here to mention all the mistakes you made. I can only hope beginning Hi-Lift Jack users don't mimic your use. I know, I know... the whole world is a critic. But truth is, you tried REALLY HARD to make the Hi-Lift look dangerous and hard to use (skewing unknowing beginners to the ARB Jack - disingenuous to say the least). Further, if you've never had to use a Hi-Lift Jack as a hand winch, then in my opinion you've not overlanded or off-roaded enough. There will come that day. In most cases, when you get stuck in compression terrain (sand, snow, mud), where was the last place you had traction? Oh, right. Behind you. So, when you are remote, solo and perhaps international (the context doesn't get any worse than this), then being able to move your vehicle a bit backwards can be important when trying to get unstuck, even when you have a winch on the FRONT of your vehicle. Now... for the record, I've just ordered ARB's "Jack." I am looking forward to actually trying it in the field under actual circumstances. But, as everyone else has acknowledged... oh that price tag! Ouch!

[@robertWohlers]

Oh... Also. Hi-Lift Jacks are not dangerous. The user (or "mis-user") is dangerous.

[@AllTerrainFamily]

Exactly my point. If you have to have years of training and experience then it isn’t “safe.” I didn’t have to try that hard to make the hi lift look fiddly, this is what 99% of us with limited experience with the tool look like. As such, the demo wasn’t really meant for you. Happy Trails! -M

[@robertWohlers]

@@AllTerrainFamily Re-read my comment carefully. I didn't even HINT that anyone needed "years of training and experience" to operate a Hi-Lift Jack. I teach my students to use the Hi-Lift properly in less than 15 to 20 minutes. In my book "Raising Your 4WD Vehicle Off Road & In-Field Tire Repair" it takes about 5 minutes to read the 13 fundamental Safety Guidelines for Hi-Lift Jack Use. The "tool" is not the problem, the user that manipulates it unsafely is the problem.

[@robertWohlers]

www.amazon.com/Raising-Vehicle-Off-Road-Field-Repair/dp/1987585089/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Raising+your+4wd+vehicle&qid=1567557189&s=books&sr=1-1

[@AllTerrainFamily]

@@robertWohlers You keep making my point for me. Without training the hi-lift is hazardous. Without training the ARB Jack is fairly safe. This video demonstrated that. But saying the tool is not the problem isn't really a valid argument. Nothing is hazardous if used completely correctly without screwing up. But if there is limited margin for error with significant consequences, then it is in fact hazardous, and potentially unsafe. The Hi-Lift requires diligence in use to keep yourself safe and maintenance to keep it in smooth working order. Even then, the main safety concerns, that the lever bar can transfer the lifting energy to your face, and that the whole assembly can tilt remain. Even someone who has read your book or taken your class is going to look like me in this video a year later after not touching or maintaining a Hi-Lift in the interim. That's just the way people are. But safety and usability isn't about correct usage and diligent maintenance. It's about screwing up. If you can't screw up without serious consequences, the it isn't "safe."

[@adamlee581]

Some of the worst hi lift jack operation I've ever seen, and he hasn't even got the wheels off the floor yet....I do hope you are really trying to make the hi lift look bad for a shill video

[@gmwolf34]

That arb must of come for free the way you were acting like the hi lift was going to bite you. With KZbin and simply reading instructions the hi lift isnt that hard to figure out

[@Siskiyous6]

Great idea, at that price though I think I will pass

[@dobrovik]

the ARB jack costs 40 bucks more than my first jeep

[@renodemona]

I've actually only ever used my Hi-Lift as a come along *knocks on wood* so the ARB isn't as useful for me. The swivel base is really neat, hopefully someone comes out with one for existing hi-lifts. The price for that ARB is, well, I bought 2 whole Jeeps and still had $100 to spare...so...

[@kennethbolton951]

For the price of that ARB Jack you could get a solar powered satellite radio phone.

[@hurleylfd]

This video was a better explanation of the ARB jack and how it compares to the Hi-Lift than I received from ARB directly. Thank you!

[@TheDenisedrake]

Good Lord man. How complicated can a man make a high lift jack? So simple and so many uses and not $800. You can get a winch for under $800... or a blender with a gas powered motor. :P

[@AllTerrainFamily]

It’s easy to confuse your familiarity with a to with simplicity. If I’d never used a hi lift, it would be hard to figure out. The ARB is pretty self explanatory.

[@assyrianbetnahrian9574]

Il take the hi jack I can use it for more than just one thing

[@JesusWSalazar]

Question: The provided instructions say not to store the ARB Jack on its side or it will leak. Yet they are all shipped on their side. They also are stored on their side at the distribution warehouse and in delivery trucks. Mine arrived covered in oil because of these reasons. Further, how are we to store the Jack outside the vehicle if it comes in a storage bag that is without mounting hardware and which causes one to assume that the Jack is to be stored IN the vehicle, where it almost always can only be stored on its side, because of its height? Why isnt there mounting hardware specific to the Jack, designed/sold by ARB that is 1) meant to be mounted on exterior and that, 2) incorporates theft resistant features (e.g. lockable hardware)? I'm in the states. These are very popular here but that is changing quickly. I just returned from the Overland Expo and my question above, includes the 2 most heard complaints about this product and are the reasons why so many are now turning to other products. The number 1 complaint however: storing this on its side should not allow oil to leak/this is a very poor design feature! I love ARB but this is money I'm now seeing that was poorly spent, due to an incomplete design and a lack of mounting options, which ARB should've addressed prior to releasing this product. ARB, please address these 3 things, or I fear ARB will see this products interest lose steam. ARB is a solid company but the mark was missed on this one big time.

[@SWBCrawler]

The arb is nice. But that price and lack of versatility is a problem for me.

[@HarrySituations]

Great real world comparison Mike!

[@BRENT3143945]

Tell me your trying to sale a new jack without telling me your trying to sale a new jack.

[@russellintahoe]

I am in an off-road recovery group and have used the hi-lift many times. You can get hurt using one if you don't know what you are doing. They do have lots of other uses besides just being a jack. I love how compact the arb is! The hi-lift is a pain to store on your Jeep. This is probably my favorite thing about it. If I was a first time user and had the choice and wallet, I would get the ARB. I am not going to run out and replace my exisiting jack. So people can afford it and others can't. My Jeep costs more than a Porsche Turbo. To each their own.

[@hymlog]

...ARB JACK. ....BUILT WITH GREED IN MIND! .....Think Not? PRICE ONE!

[@markwright340]

My strong fingers can't work the hi lift jack 🤣 so now I will kick the jack off of the vehicle.

[@Goodoldm]

How much should I expect to pay for ARB jack, and where is it sold ? Thanks for this new news :|

[@AllTerrainFamily]

I feel like $771 may be a high price to pay for a jack, but for what it is, how it’s built and the overall function and quality it’s a fair price for that particular tool.

[@SecondClassCitizen]

@@AllTerrainFamily That's not a fair price its a hybrid hi lift / bottle jack. 200 would be more ideal they are selling the name more than anything, and the fact they're the only ones who own that patent. I just got into this offroading about a year ago, and I have noticed there are certain companies out there that are selling the name and you can usually get the same thing for a fraction of the cost.

[@jimmyjimmy951]

A lot..

[@Knower-of-all-things]

You know what they say......"if you have to ask". This is one of those times.

[@truckcampertraveler7369]

People have been using high lift jacks for decades probably the same one because they never break the way you talk about this thing is hilarious

[@AllTerrainFamily]

People have been using punctuation in their sentences for even longer.

[@OverlandTrax]

Good video, keep them coming!

[@woolengrappler]

Do you need to have a front and rear bumper to use this, or would sliders work fine? Can this do anything more than just lifting the vehicle for changing tires?

[@AllTerrainFamily]

Sliders work if they are strong enough. You can use it to lift the vehicle and stack rocks if it’s hung up.

[@woolengrappler]

All-Terrain Family Got it, thanks! Is it true that these are ideally stored upright?

[@cowboygeologist7772]

Thanks for posting. Good information.

[@jeremyd.6060]

Very cool video, but I like how the guy tries to over sell how shitty the 80year old jack is, lmao they can be dangerous, but so can any jack holding your 4k rig 3-4 feet in the air haha.

[@AllTerrainFamily]

The hi lift is the only one that will whack you in the face with a metal pipe though. Ha ha.

[@jeremyd.6060]

@@AllTerrainFamily that is true seen my Buddy use his in the snow his hand slipped, handle hit his arm twice in seconds, he learned to show it more respect lol

[@250krawler]

The ARB and the hi-lift are no comparison, maybe if they were closer in price. I`ve done stuff with a hi-lift I wouldn't dare do if it cost 800 bucks, kinda defeats the purpose IMO. The arb is for changeing tires( and not even a good way to do it) and the Hi lift is for everything else, jacking, winching, pushing, repositioning a vehicle, hell you can even split wood with one.

[@notjohnwick007]

Although ARB Jack is really expensive, but I think is good for those off road vehicle already has winch The ARB Jack is like hybrid of Hi Lift Jack and Bottle Jack, and it's lighter than both Hi Lift Jack and Bottle Jack together, best for those who want to cut weight on the vehicle In my opinion Hi Lift Jack is best for hand winching recovery for the tip over vehicle

[@patb9375]

At 10 years old I had none of the problems you seem to have with a jack. Clean your jack and put something on the pins if you let it rust so bad it will not work for you. If you get the jack straight it will be more stable, jacking at an angle is not secure. My 90 pound daughter has less problems with our high lift and it is a full size one not the small high lift you have. Some men and little girls can do it and some cannot I guess.

[@jfuentes2009]

“Pneumatic” = air; “hydraulic” = fluid

[@AllTerrainFamily]

Ok.

[@fmills77]

😂🤣 are you really comparing an $800 jack to a $49 jack?! Lol👍 Wanna compare your Jeep to my supercharged Dodge Viper on the race track?! Jfc

[@ridgerunner7980]

lets take something thats been done for a hundred years give it a new a new name then we can say we invented something ..lets call it overlanding thats right its new and different and never been done before

[@hachi-rokuperformancegroup3987]

Arb is the Disney of the offroad world. They have such high prices so the poor do have their products on their beaters

[@FaboLouis]

Nice commercial for ARB Jack 👎🏼. Hi-lift is a super easy jack, that does a lot of things.

[@PhilTaylorPhotog]

The most important question though...can it be used with a lift mate?

[@khaled6100]

Winching is not an option in ARB

[@AllTerrainFamily]

Post a video of you using a jack to effectively winch a truck out. We would love to see it.

[@jake-mv5oi]

@@AllTerrainFamily I've done it. It wasn't fun and took forever, but it was our only option and it worked.

[@johnterpack3940]

Using a hi-lift as a winch is madness. Yes, it will work. But you can get a come-along cheap that will do the job more safely and quickly.

[@stacksmasher]

You didn't even lift the tires off the ground. Not much of a test.

[@AllTerrainFamily]

Yes we did.

[@dimitar4y]

> neckbeard > spent 700+ on a crappy tool > "this 50$ doesnt work really all that well" shill.

[@johngardner545]

Your biased opinion has convinced me, I'm going with the hi lift