Problem Player Doesn’t Like Guns in DND | Narrated D&D Story

[@tactishovel2247]

So another narrator once did the first story, and they reviewed the provided links to the character class. It was revealed to be an obscenely broken and overpowered homebrew class that completely nullified Bob's ability to benefit the party, and the other narrator deduced that while it was not right for Bob to do what he did, he was probably just salty about being rendered completely useless and the "no guns in DND" thing was just his attempt at reasoning why the other player and they're busted character shouldn't play. Again, what Bob did was wrong, but according to the links provided, there may have been a reason other than "no guns in DND, MYEH!"

[@mammothpage6932]

I dont think the reason matters that much though. If you got a problem, go to the dm. Causing issues with other players because you disagree with something the DM decided on isn't likely to ever have a good excuse

[@gingergrant1057]

Link?

[@Xokoy]

I believe that was Den of the Drake a few months ago, and yeah, the class was completely busted. Some people really need to learn the basics of homebrewing before they start publishing their stuff on DNDB and other sites.

[@benkayvfalsifier3817]

@@gingergrant1057 Does YT even allow links? I ask this because most links I posted as proof in a conversation get deleted instantly.

[@galdrnixthral6140]

Yah I remember this and the class was broken AF and regardless the OP and DM were super bad anyway in my opinion mostly with the DM saying yah PVP is ok for you but no one els was super bad

[@H240909]

I’ve heard this first story before and actually looked up the homebrew gunslinger class OP is using and HOLY SH*T was it the most broken thing I’ve ever seen! So unless the DM nerfed the class to the point it’s not even the same class, OP was running a completely broken build that would allow him to one shot every encounter and would probably get him kicked from most tables! Sure, the other player is still an a-hole for trying to police world building or whatever he thought he was trying to do, but so are OP and DM for introducing something so mechanically broken!

[@MechaG]

Den of the Drake said the same thing.

[@CooperAATE]

@@MechaG and he was right

[@lostbutfreesoul]

They did mention it was rebalanced around the Minute mark into this story... but I have to flag something: It was so easy to miss because there was no detail into what this rebalancing was! Putting aside how little information this gives us to judge for ourselves what is going on, consider the next few sentences within the story. They go to detail the few ways the musket itself was 'rebalanced,' increasing the break chance of the weapon, but not a thing on how the class was changed to fit. All I can assume, given other people say it is Over Powered, is that the changes where not enough to render the class more mundane if they won't tell us what they are.

[@Chaosmage42]

Agreed, everyone is a jerk here, the op and dm are jerks for putting an over powered class in and ignoring the issue, i think also that the reason this person doesn't want guns in fantasy is exactly that reason, people think guns and they think modern guns, rifling and other inventions that made guns the go to weapon of the modern age are way beyond a fantasy worlds ability to produce in just a small smithy, im not sure on the balance of a game but im about to do one and we are going with the critical role one as i think its been tested enough to be balanced and give enough pro and cons that it won't break the game. The other person was a jerk but it seems like this is a case of him being screwed over by two gun nuts who think guns should be over powered because they are thinking of modern fire arms, plus if you look at the class its so broken its not even funny they remove any disadvantages the class has over a short span of time look at den of the drakes episode he breaks it down well

[@memes4life26]

@@Chaosmage42 Didn't they make adjustments to balance it? I don't see how they are a jerk.

[@TheAnonyomusGuy]

Den of Drake covered the first story once and even reviewed the home class through a provided link to it and found that it was massively overpowered even including the very link to the very class in his own video description it was one of those d&d wiki Homebrew classes

[@reighzhor1058]

Den Of The Drake did the first one as well and he went through the homebrew gunslinger class the OP shared and described just how broken it actually is. If this was an AITA post it would be an "everybody sucks here" verdict.

[@graveyardshift2100]

Yep it's the one I thought it was. Bob was unreasonable but gunslinger was using broken homebrew.

[@oshermdaddy2058]

I've seen 2 variations the matt Mercer one and one I accidentally used for a pokemon DND one shot. Im assuming he used the latter

[@graveyardshift2100]

@@oshermdaddy2058 well yeah. Matt's is really just the pathfinder class converted to 5e, which makes it relatively balanced to the caster classes, but this thing is pumping out 5d12 at level 1.

[@oshermdaddy2058]

@@graveyardshift2100 ya that's what I figured, like I think Matt's gunslinger is good overall I didn't think it was unreasonable. Once I heard 5d12 I knew something was wrong

[@Helthegrim]

Matt's Gunslinger is also just a Fighter Subclass that had gone through multiple revisions based on being playstested by Talisen at the table for so long. The one used by the OP here was on the D&D wiki, which is just so chock full of broken things that finding something that won't be overpowered is highly unlikely as barely anything in there has been tested at a table and if it has it was with other things created in the same vein.

[@fmor2779]

First story, if you review the links to this INSANE homebrew, you'll knew this guy was OP and doesn't want to quit it. Guns in fantasy are ok, what it's definately not ok is when someone has an unfair advantage. There is one rule in that homebrew that says the player can get rid of reloading AT 2 LEVEL! I blame the DM for this, he shouldn't have allowed this kind of homebrew. It literally leaves the ranger useless in the game. I don't condone his actions but it is hard not to feel the ranger's frustration.

[@aodhstormeyes]

To be fair, so can the official artificer class with an infusion. and they don't have to put up with misfires. Now I'm not saying that artificers are OP, but reloading isn't really a big deal as you have the option of a feat (Crossbow expert) or an infusion (Reloading Shot) to remove the the reloading property from a weapon. Plus The infusion turns the weapon into a magic +1 weapon.

[@thegreatcanadianweasel9928]

@@aodhstormeyes The artificer class can't do it at level 2 and their damage is a bit different than this abomination

[@aodhstormeyes]

@@thegreatcanadianweasel9928 At level 2 the artificer gets the Reloading Shot infusion which can be applied to ranged weapons with the loading property. This makes the weapon a magic +1 weapon and removes the loading property. I'm not refuting that this gunslinger class has OP damage. I never said that. I never even said that artificer was OP, I just said that removing the loading property wasn't all that special. Hell be a variant human or Tasha's Custom Lineage and you can do it at level 1 with a feat (see crossbow expert and gunner). Don't act like the loading property is some sort of balance for ranged users who use crossbows and firearms. It really isn't. Especially when getting rid of the property comes with other bonuses too.

[@thegreatcanadianweasel9928]

@@aodhstormeyes repeating shot, and I stand corrected. But reloading is actually a balancing feature between the higher possible damage and the speed of say a bow. But yes some class features at level 2 do remove it.

[@theofficerfactory2625]

That 2nd one has me boiling! I tried looking into getting a pilots license and wow, it's expensive. Kudos for the guy getting his and for some ASSHAT to try to rob him of all that hard work just makes my blood boil.

[@Ashtari]

WoW...that second story...That was petty to rival the worst Karen since that investigation could have ruined Alex's career as a private pilot.

[@kyle1598hffgyfv]

But the guy that made the report could have gotten hit with federal charges for falsifying govt documents when making the fake charges.

[@kyle1598hffgyfv]

And hopefully, FAA did charge for fake report.

[@legogsrdi8349]

First dm buffed a already powerful hombrew, allowed players to bicker about it. Gunslinger acts like they did nothing wrong yet used busted homebrew that made another character rather redundant and constantly refused to come to an agreement. Ranger was a petulant child about another ranged character. Also I think it's dumb everyone acts like if you play Ranger you can only/have to play as a ranged character, you can step outside the incredibly basic stereotypes of the classes and still be powerful and have fun.

[@Keiji555]

Agreed. I played a 3.5 game where I played a dual wielding Ranger, and the Cleric was the dedicated archer. Everyone would turn to me for archery, and then I'd immediately turn to the Cleric.

[@thehowlinggamer5784]

Problem Player: there are no guns in fantasy! Me: world of warcraft, Fable, Greedfall... Nope, no guns there...🤪🤪🤪

[@JoshtheOverlander]

Just ask him whether ninjas use guns or not, and if he says no, you know he doesn't know his shit.

[@thehowlinggamer5784]

@@JoshtheOverlander Facts.

[@RedSunUnderParadise]

And Warhammer and Iron Kingdoms and Wizardry 8....... Also Berserk has Cannons and a literal hand(Arm)gun. Berserk >>>>>>>>>>> Tolkien.

[@clericofchaos1]

I've heard the first one before, i think it was from den of the drake, and honestly that one is more the op's fault than the "problem player". His homebrew class was overpowered, in fact i've actually played that before because matt mercer's gunslinger class SUCKS, but the gm allowed it. Which means he was totally fine with the class. So, instead of constantly being a dick to the gun wielder the better thing to do would just be to make a new character using that class. that way no one feels inferior to anyone else. With that said, guns 100% have a place in D&D. They're even stated out in the dmg. It entirely depends on the desired setting, which should be established in session 0. If you do allow guns in your game, make them a martial weapon and make them easily available to everyone...including the npc's obviously.

[@EyeOfMagnus4E201]

Depending on the campaign setting, firearms would be appropriate. A classic medieval style D&D setting would not have firearms, but a renaissance era three musketeers style or pirate style D&D campaign world, and gunpowder weapons don’t seem to terribly different from the various crossbows or ballistas. However, that said, I would not allow that homebrew gunslinger class in any campaign I was running. If someone wanted to have a gunslinger, a swashbuckler rogue would be great, as would some ranger, fighter, or even bard builds, but I wouldn’t trust any homebrew class to not break the game somehow.

[@TheChrisrock55555]

Player in the story: Reeing about Muskets and Firearms. Boy, he is going to REALLY hate my campaigns. As a Texan and a DM, all of my Campaigns have a schtick regarding Westerns and Firearms being affordable, balanced, and used in everyday life. If someone doesn't prefer or want to use firearms, that is their choice as there are a plethora of items and tools that are more convenient or useful than firearms.

[@denverarnold6210]

You should look up Deadlands. It's an alternate history about magic phenomena that happened in the wild west, in a nutshell.

[@thegreatcanadianweasel9928]

Den of the drake did this one and went in on just how insanely busted this class is.

[@thebigdawgj]

>Texan I'm so sorry. Get well soon.

[@RedSunUnderParadise]

Based. In my setting, Swords aren't even a thing anymore considering the rate at which Dragonborn and Dwarves pump out guns. They have to or the Illithids and extraplanars invade.

[@TacDyne]

He should have pressed charges for filing a false report.

[@twistednwarped314]

If you down the range back to 120 this would be a bit more balanced though you'd probably need to nerf the dmg a bit too. Edit: Actually on second thought the range shouldn't be more than 60, especially since muskets in particular have terrible accuracy and range.

[@emberfist8347]

Nah it should be 100. For reference the Brown Bess which I would is as typical for a musket as you can get, had an effective range of 100 yards on a point target.

[@noahgoschen3753]

It really depends on the Era of musket to be honest. During the American Civil War there were quite a few documented snipers on both side and the confederates have confirmed hits out to 400 yards. Very few, but it did happen.

[@MethosChannel]

1. Why didnt they just use Matt Mercers Gunslinger if they had to "tweak" their version they used from the start. 2. Lord Of The Rings have tons of gun powder, that's how Isengard broke Helms Deep (in the movie).

[@AndreyKrichevsky]

1. Maybe they thought the class they used was better? Mercer's Gunslinger was a fighter subclass. 2. Yes, but they haven't figured out they can stuff it into a metal tube with a ball in it, so it doesn't count!

[@MethosChannel]

@@AndreyKrichevsky 1. Ofc it was "better" haha some random kid made it. 2. Sauroman could probably figure it out within a few years if he didnt die, however, there's more fantasy games/movies with "gun types/gun powder" then those without. But the most recent is probably Warcraft and Star Wars. Just absurd to claim "there's no guns in fantasy".

[@pinkiez2340]

@@MethosChannel Damn, i forgot Star Wars was fantasy, good points!

[@emberfist8347]

@@AndreyKrichevsky 2. It is implied in the Hobbit that at some point Goblins invented guns during the Middle-Earth period.

[@DarkAtHearts]

All things DD Crit Crab Den of the Drake When their powers combined.

[@kcollier2192]

OP in story 1 reminds me of a character class from Wizardry 8 called the Gadgeteer. While the Gadgeteer could use pistols or muskets their main weapon was called the Omnigun, a self maintained weapon that automatically improved as the character gained levels. it's ammo consisted of musket balls, sling stones, darts, knives and even arrows. Not sure if alchemy is a thing in 5E but yeah- gunpowder weapons can be a thing in D&D, although I can see where a DM might make them extremely rare to find and dangerous to use for the untrained.

[@robertemumford]

I know someone like the Bob in the 2nd story, made so many false accusations and reports that when they visited someone in the hospital there was a two nurse rule where no one was left with them alone so as not to have a false report made of them.

[@JoshtheOverlander]

Admittedly, yes, the Homebrew class that the op used in the first story is broken beyond belief. If that shit had shown up at my table or in my group in general, I would have shut that shit down immediately. However people seem to be jumping immediately to the conclusion that Op is actually *the* problem, not the problem player, which I believe is stupid. All we have to go on is the story itself right now and from how it goes, the problem player started complaining about Op's musket *before* he saw the damage numbers. This was genuinely an instance of a player trying to police the rules of fantasy, like what happened with the Warforged story and from a lesser case, Larry at the beginning of the story of Mi the monk. It might not have been as bad if the build was balanced, maybe, but that's a big maybe. We can't see into alternate timelines or the future, so with the information we have, I believe that the Problem Player is at least equally, of not moreso, the problem in the first story, depending on whether or not the rest of the party minded the homebrew build.

[@Dr.Sho_Minamimoto]

I suppose we can only take the first authors word. I play a sniper and my main goal is to seed disorder and chaos within the ranks of the enemies and open up opportunities for my party to do some damage. While the resources the first story gave us points to it being a mess, if the DM allowed it, didn’t have a problem with it, and the rest of the party don’t seem to have qualms with the broomstick then I imagine it’s just range envy from the other range based player. Still, that’s my take and could be wholly disagreeable to anyone else.

[@360entertainment2]

12:29 “what’s it like to be grounded like the rest of us plebs?” “I wouldn’t know, what’s it like to not have a Gaming Group?”

[@lamiahunter]

To anyone going the “lord of the ring doesnt have guns” Bruh they had black powder. They were 20 years at most from guns”

[@LoboGuara5bruxaria]

Knowing how much of an inventive and manipulative genius Sauron was, not only it would only be a matter of time for him to actually invent firearms if he wasn't killed, he would likely supply it to his soldiers to keep all his subjects in a tight leash!

[@lamiahunter]

@@LoboGuara5bruxaria Exactly so. The man would have had cannons ready in less than 5 years and move down to hand cannons for his orcs. Humans would get the ability and in 20 years we are looking at the age of gunfire.

[@WhatIsThatThingDoing]

Before too long, you'd be looking at missile guidance packages branded under the eye of Sauron.

[@Lrbearclaw]

As someone who owns a "musket" (technically a 50 caliber black powder muzzleloader) I think that misfire is fair, would be more accurate if it was a flintlock.

[@OutlawTwilight]

"There are no muskets in fantasy." Someone hasn't read the Iron Elves fantasy series.🤣

[@darklord884]

Or doesn't remember the blasting powder from Lord of the Rings.

[@OutlawTwilight]

@@darklord884 or the men from Gond in the Forgotten Realms series.

[@darklord884]

With the knowledge of how ridiculously broken this gunslinger class is, the first OP sounds really slimy and I have a hard time believing they are entirely truthful in detailing Bob's sins. Especially the multiple assertions that Bob was bothered by "Me doing more damage than him."

[@lt.branwulfram4794]

A LOT of things balance the Gunslinger’s proclivity for high damage: - Misfires are a NASTY business. You can either succeed or spend a good chunk of your gold trying to repair such an expensive contraption. - Adding to point 1, since most characters dont have guns, there also won’t be places to get guns, meaning you have to be SUPER rich to craft guns and ammo yourself. - The high damage weapons like the Musket and Bad News still require reloading after 1 single shot and even with a capped Dex, Sharpshooter and Archery, there’s no guarantee your aim is true against targets with high AC. You can’t remove the Reload characteristic with the Gunner feat.

[@darklord884]

@@lt.branwulfram4794 This isn't the Percy Gunslinger though. This is a D&Dwiki Gunslinger, which DenoftheDrake has looked into and apparently it can just automatically reload after a few levels without any action being taken, it can just say no to death at a few levels later, it has a long enough range to hit people outside the map and has a ton more OP stuff that I can't even recall. This isn't No Mercy Percy, this is a god level douche that you cannot excuse using in a non-broken party. And OP's egotistical gloating about how the That Guy "knows I could take him out in one shot" suggests he is aware of this and isn't sorry, which makes me question the story at best and declare OP as outright untrustworthy at worst. Grain of salt exists specifically for these situations.

[@lt.branwulfram4794]

@@darklord884 ah ok, my bad. I was just recounting my own experience with the Martial Archetype, which is fun for the most part but I do have to appease the Dice Gods and talk with my DM a bunch before every session.

[@darklord884]

@@lt.branwulfram4794 No hard feelings mate. Mistakes are made with the best of intentions too. But even if we discount the whole broken class thing, OP still sounds like an ass for going on and on about how much better they were than the that guy and how aware they were of being much stronger. Which proves the size of their ego and that they were aware the class is broken and used it anyway.

[@Green-vw5vr]

Ok but if you look at op's class from story one it's extremely overpowered

[@CooperAATE]

I knew which story it was without even listening to it. F that OP

[@Ashtari]

Oh it is very over powered, that doesn't excuse Bob's actions though. If there were concerns about power/world building, there's DOZENS of better ways to bring it up instead of tantrums and in game sabotage.

[@WaveShock007]

@@Ashtari while this is true OP is not blameless and neither is the DM who approved this basically wholesale.

[@Ashtari]

@@WaveShock007 We are not in disagreement there. There was more than enough guilt to go around in that story.

[@JoshTheHoffman]

@@WaveShock007 Bob was the only one with a problem. He really should have just went to a different table/group.

[@simonkennedy6116]

I, as the DM, added muskets and pistols to our game - I had an end game of these competing Artificers (think Eddison and Telsa) building up to a god killer cannon. As the players leveled up, so did the firearms, I even created an eldritch pistol because of complaints about getting ammo and black powder. Thing is, they never once used any firearms. Not once. And then they had the gall to tell me that they thought the firearms were a waste of time

[@mathishopper5608]

I really want to use guns in an upcoming campaign (based around Salem).

[@willybranto-davyo8786]

As an artificer main, umm... What? Firearms are great in dnd if you can have them balanced correctly, my DM nerfed how they work in the official material and they still work fine. Some people want to play strict medieval fantasy, that's fine, but no need to ruin someone else's fun, especially when the DM is on board.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

YIRBEL LIVES! Funny, for all its fantasy it’s hard for me to imagine DnD without some form of firearm. Some variations of them were present in my first two campaigns. They weren’t a common thing mind you, but they added some flavor to it all. Plus my DM was a big fan of the end Boss fight from metal gear, and incorporated that into some interesting boss encounters! 4:08 what? So only Critical role Gets to use guns? Bogus!

[@daltonwright6514]

Sorry what I don't remember who yirbel is please explain

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

@@daltonwright6514 the hero bard who sacrificed her existence to preserve another 800 souls! Her end never sat well with me So i’ve echoed her name all over the place as an Affront to said fate.

[@jukesdtj656]

Even just hearing this story without the context that other commenters are including on how this story isn't as cut and dry as the OP would like you to believe, makes your realize that there is more going on then "Guns in Fantasy bad." At 7:32 he says "And put my whole 5d12+mod into his head" and that Bob had roughly 35 hit points. Bob being a Ranger has a d8 hit die, and assuming a +2 con mod they are probably Level 4 characters. 5d12 damage no matter how it is accomplished or what you use to do so at an early level is ridiculous, and it's the reason why you can only usually do things that add damage once per round, like with Battlemaster adding their Superiority Die to damage. 5d12 on average is 32 damage, and assuming a +3 dex mod the OP would in fact be able to take down Bob in one shot on average. Playing a Ranger shows that Bob is clearly not a power gamer, and being forced to contend with an objectively more powerful class using an objectively more powerful weapon than what the rest of the party has can make people feel very downtrodden. Bob while being mad out to be a villain and just trying to maintain the balance of the game and pray to god that he will be able to accomplish anything without the OP outshining him at every moment in combat is something I can totally believe. "No guns in fantasy" is a mindset I do not agree with but can understand, but when they are being used in a way that directly screws with the balance of the game it is a problem.

[@tytoalba605]

I'd be ok with a gun if it was properly state blocked. As it's essentially a ranged weapon as is a bow and arrow but to me I'd also include a train system Becouse I like the idea of mixing steam punk with high fantasy in the same way discussed ie Artificer magic not to deep tech just fantasfied tech. But if he wasn't ok he should have just added anti gun traditionalist in his character flaws and been less outside the game fixated on an illogical bias. But yes I'd love a magical shot gun of fireball lol.

[@letsplaysvonaja1714]

Lord of the rings might not have guns but they have bombs, so... Also as others pointed out already the specific homebrew in question is actually op especially with the changes they applied

[@LocalMaple]

When you realize full plate armor was invented before the old non-rifled guns. Edits 1:15 That’s why the range was low. Rifling improved accuracy.

[@emberfist8347]

Even the original accurate was off. A Brown Bess musket had an effective range of 100 yards or 300 yards depending on what you were trying to hit.

[@levisays7676]

12:40 far as im concerned the FAA should of pressed charges against Paul for filing a False Claim thereby committing a act of Fraud, honestly if every company started doing that in these instances im sure the rate of False Claims would Drop Off Significantly

[@Hercules1-v9m]

Firearms are literally in the D&D books. There is even a feat for it.

[@FordPrefict42]

Why do I have to be the old Grognard Munchkin?!? Both Arquibus and Blunderbuss are in AD&D 2E rulebook! I owned that book back in the early 1990s.

[@KindDmoN]

How about narrating the dnd story of the dwarf who supplexed a dungeon to save his party

[@redraptorx1066]

please correct me if i'm wrong on this one... but didn't they have both black powder/gunpowder as well as an explosive in the lord of the rings book/one of the movies?

[@WaveShock007]

Thats....not really the issue with the gun story

[@ChiefLibrarianAhriman]

AFAIK I think an explosive was mentioned in the books but only as a vague "blasting-fire", black powder as explosive only appeared in the films

[@redraptorx1066]

@@ChiefLibrarianAhriman ah, good to know.

[@ericvulgate]

Gandalf's fireworks weren't gun powder?

[@ChiefLibrarianAhriman]

@@ericvulgate They might have been, they just weren't stated as such. That's kind of the point of Tolkien, he leaves a lot of stuff to your interpretation.

[@kevobot9342]

Honestly I don’t mind guns in a fantasy setting so long as their not too op

[@hyasome244]

Oh yeah, I've heard this first story before in Den of The Drake.

[@tatocraftv]

the musket is better than a heavy crossbow raw. applying the adjustment listed in the video it has still better dpr, even if just by 0.10. not to mention the gunslinger class is busted and negates all the problems of the firearms

[@Donkeyearsa]

There is a difference between charging for profit and asking for gas money. I had a guy offer me flights and all I would have to do is pay for the fuel and airport fees. Unfortunately before I could take him up on the offer he was forced to move out of state. 5d12 for a 3rd level character is way beyond resanable.

[@NessaEllenesse]

As a DM I do NOT allow fire arms into my campaign unless they are plot relevant to the module I am running (see Expidition to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk) they are treated as exotic weapons and amo will be scarce and hard to find.

[@RainMakeR_Workshop]

The lack of firearms in fantasy is because most fantasy is based on medieval Europe. And because firearms weren’t common, people seem to assume they didn’t exist. They did. And were far more prevalent that most people realise. Plus the period of Dnd seems to be more based on Renaissance than medieval these days. So firearms 100% fit.

[@nebbygetinthebag7263]

im sorry what? this isnt a problem player, op's class is broken to no end

[@XxEvolutionxX23]

It's funny how irate nerds can be when they have a pre determined idea of a whole fictional world that they didn't even create and then learn something about it that doesn't fit their wants and needs... Lmao

[@kamilrichert8446]

7:30 if player could down a player consistently in one turn, I'm not surprised the other player didn't like that weapon His fault for not paying attention to it on session 0 though

[@combinepotatogaming7154]

I'll be honest I will never understand the hatred for firearms in DnD. Has DM of 7 years. I'll just twick and modify it. Heck there are literally guns in the books. However the one thing I really hate in the whole debate is when people try to throw the "medieval fantasy" argument in your face. The last time I checked this is a world filled with magic. Different races besides humans. Not to mention terminators made of wood and steel walking around... I'm sorry but I don't think this was in the history books. Also... There were firearms. They did use gunpowder. The weapons might not have looked has fancy at all but they get the job done. T_T I just think the whole debate is silly for a fantasy game where you're all supposed to just sit around a table and have fun.

[@EyeOfMagnus4E201]

👍 Honestly, if you’re not talking about modern guns, any non-rifled muzzle-loader would likely function like a slightly higher damage, less accurate alternative to a crossbow. The 5th edition Dungeon Master’s guide basically does this by having firearms do slightly more damage and have a lower range than similar crossbows.

[@UndeadGhostGirl]

I think the intro is mixed up. Maybe the background pic as well. Cool stories, though. Fuck that second guy, intentionally trying to ruin someone's career because they got more attention than you during *one* conversation.

[@craftlawrence6390]

It takes a lot of time, effort and experimentation to create a gun out of nothing when the entire concept is unknown so it can be balanced easily with low accuracy (even today some popular guns like uzis have notably bad accuracy and only fully effective up to 50m according to wiki) and a chance for the gun to get damaged on a 1 or somehing

[@emberfist8347]

Eh DnD rules having a nat 1 damage the gun isn't really balanced. Does a bow damaged on a Nat 1? Also the Uzi is accurate if you know what you are doing.

[@craftlawrence6390]

@@emberfist8347 the actual numbers are irrelevant, the point is that guns can be balanced if you try to, they don't have to automatically be gamebreakingly op in a fantasy setting, not like early guns irl where as good as modern guns either.

[@grublord6215]

Damn its a shame, this channel shows off some interesting stories and cool world building, its a shame that majority of the content is about toxic players twisting stories to make themselves appear right

[@Dwarfurious]

an elf ranger using lotr as an example lol fucking elves, no wonder he hates guns

[@greatgallade]

Funny enough. My dm uses guns as their own style of weapon. Not a class. So anyone can use it. They just needed our artificer to tell us how it work and we can use it with our own magic as concentrated blast attacks. That and our dm let's us use our magic in the most creative ways and it works for him

[@bmonci1]

I'll never understand why DMs put up with this type of thing, and/or why players put up with terrible tyrannical DMs who make up rules on the fly etc. Especially now when it's easy to find other groups.

[@fungithefungi3331]

HA. Im currently working on a scifi fantasy game for my group and theyre excited for it.

[@RedSunUnderParadise]

Ah, there's the issue, Bob is a Tolkientard. Why not get the PWD some Isaac Aasimov or some Harry Turtledove.

[@smoczycien]

I remember firearms in books about Drizzd do'urden so... I guess ,its not a fantasy serie ?

[@Keiji555]

I think that the gunslinger should have been set up as a Ranger Archetype. There is a lot of overlap in the philosophy of the two characters, and it might have been a lot more manageable and balanced. The DM, if they really wanted to truly balance things out, should have taken some of the abilities, and set it up as such. Or maybe it's the Pathfinder fan in me. Hell, it is a Ranger Combat Style. So that could have been an option, if they opted for that system, and things would be far more balanced.

[@dakotajones321]

As a d&d enthusiast, I myself have a great deal of distaste for firearms in campaigns. However, rather than our friend Bob here, I just avoid campaigns that I know will have them. Additionally, if there are no alternatives, I'll just not use firearms myself and try to get past other players using them. My reasoning for disliking guns in d&d is that for me, it takes away from my perception of a medieval fantasy style setting. I don't think there is anything wrong with other players enjoying them though. That being said... 5d12 seems like a LOT for 3rd level, and I could understand someone getting a little salty about a homebrew class dealing that much damage, even considering expensed resources.

[@domomitsune5920]

That's okay, allow the player to use the musket, and just don't allow the other player to have one. If they are really so concerned about having guns in d&d, have them fight over it. And the winner lives in the loser is dead in their character sheet is burned. Easy solution, if they continue to argue about it. But I'm betting the one with the musket is going to kill the other one.

[@MrThedud33]

oh my, never been this early.

[@kn1ghtsm1t38]

Same

[@cario0236]

I just realised

[@lichkingluke2982]

Same bro

[@DamionVander]

I'm no fan of guns in fantasy either but I think the DM was fair in the way he balanced its power. Had I been a part of this group, my opinion on the gun would be low but I would keep it to myself for the parties sake. So long as everyone is having fun, it's fine.

[@KnicKnac]

I'm not a fan of guns in my fantasy game, but I'm not going to rain on another player for using them if they are allowed.

[@CSWells-uq4jx]

Someone never played WOW if they think there are no muskets in fantasy:p

[@thorspower]

Body stackers are the worst

[@MrNintendogeek01]

I mean I don't "like" guns in my fantasy games, maybe tolerate them, but outright trying to sabotage a fellow player is unacceptable behavior and I hope "Bob" either knocked it off, or moved on. That's ridiculous.

[@Dwarfurious]

I hate how many settings in science fiction just turn into science fantasy or how often fantasy just turns into science fiction; full of computers and robots and laser guns and mechs. But guns? so what. Could be interesting as a rare weapon; with unique challenges to replace them or find ammo, you'd probably end up having the player make his own ammo with a mold and needing components. Part alchemist part marksmen; at least its not what Gunslingers are usually like in "fantasy" games; mobile artillery pieces with an armies worth of firepower

[@NiceOCGuy1981]

And did this Paul guy get arrested for making a false report. Probably not.

[@jasondudeman4841]

Standatd dungeons and dragons should NOT have fire arms. Maybe a futuristic version. However the DM did allow the OP to habe an INSANELY BROKEN OVERPOWERED chatacter so thays on the DM as much as the OP

[@Arcticmaster1190]

So for those remarking the brokenness of OP 1’s class choice, I’m not actually that bothered with it. Yes, it’s broken, yes it should have been nerfed to hell and back but Bob really shouldn’t have tried to get OP’s gun broken or acted how he did. The talk (in private mind you) about removing guns from fantasy should have been both public and instead about nerfing the class. Bob initially got butthurt about the existence of the firearms, as opposed to how much damage they do. From how things played out, he probably then got more pissed that it was the broken D&D wiki version. Bob initiated PvP as opposed to talking things over as an adult. The crossed wires of where the problem is is that the Problem Player paradigm got shifted from Bob to OP due to the power imbalance, but so far, only us viewers (and possibly Bob) have a problem with it. If I were the DM, I would have asked OP to swap to the DMG musket damage rolls so it’s more on par with the bows in the PHB. And so no one thinks I’m just sticking up for OP, I actually did have an overpowered gunslinger like this OP. Using the official MM Gunslinger class this time. Though I created this one entirely by accident. I wanted to give one of my players (playing a Drow Gunslinger who followed Eilistraee) a cool weapon from all the memeing we were doing in OOC chat about a gun that shoots moonlight. Long story short and one mystical vision later and about 2d12 radiant damage without the Loading feature and Action Surge, I was regretting my life decisions. I didn’t take it back, but I did give everyone else a chance to buy cool magic swag while I tried to get ideas for what sort of broken weapons or gear to give to my other players too.

[@ericvulgate]

You're not doing fantasy right!!

[@angramainyu4599]

I'm also in the no guns in fantasy camp That said if there is an in game reason for them to exist I have no complaints Am I the only one

[@alperozcan4384]

Problem player is right, guns have no place in dnd :)

[@timtauber5557]

I am a D.M. and I do not allow guns in my campaign world. It’s sword and sorcery. I make this known at the very start. I am not against other people running their worlds or campaigns however they want. It is just not something I am interested in. If a player is unhappy with that in my world I will let them know they are free to seek other D.M.’s out and play in their world. I personally would not be against playing in a world with guns, although it would not be my preference.

[@inventiveowl395]

Genuinely curious: Would this be allowed in your world (that is: it happens as improvization during a session) - During preparations for a large battle, I would make (have a blacksmith make me) a hardened steel tube with a slightly smaller inside diameter on one end a funnel on the other end, and a second funnel mounted perpendicularly to the tube. We get into battle, I'd cast (have someone else cast) two small portals onto my metal stick. One on both of the funnels. The portal inside the perpendicular funnel would go to a desert, deep under a big dune, and the portal inside the parallel funnel would go deep into the ocean. And viola, magical armor cutting water jet.

[@timtauber5557]

@@inventiveowl395 that would depend on many factors, the creation of magic items in my world is an experimental field, logic and magic are often at odds. So what might seem logical would not necessarily work as intended. Individual items have a limit as to how many magics can be attached to those said items. You would need a high level of craftsman ship to create physical components for said item, then you would be required to specialize in enchantment magic to create an item that would hold enchantments, then you would have to be able to cast the required magics in a particular order on the item to be enchanted. If all went well it is possible for that item to do something. Exactly what it will do will depend on an Int check as well as an enchanter proficiency check. So to answer your question, yes it is possible to create that item, but not an easy task. There will always be a chance it does something completely different. The creation of magic items is not an exact science in my world.

[@timtauber5557]

In my world there is no spell called “portal” so your example would have to be modified. I have a “Gate” spell which is fairly close, but would not work exactly as your example would require it to work.

[@kellygervais4833]

Hey, I'm a new player an I was wondering if eneyone here could tell me how I could play dnd because I don't have any friends that play dnd so I'm having a difficulty finding people to play with

[@vortex7733]

For the first story I guess pirats of the Caribbean isn't fancy. Clearly fish people exist and horses can pull entire banks off there foundation's. Also everyone knows mat is the only dm in the world allowed to put any guns in his game. Also what's starwars or startack? For the 2nd story you and your friends have way to much leanency like holy crap I wouldn't alow that rudeness anyware.

[@MrRogerogerio]

I'd love to read up on this gun-toting guy's homebrew Gunslinger class. Sounds like a fun thing to use in a game of my own some time! I'm currently playing a Ranger with a regular flintlock pistol, and his subclass is themed around astrology-based powers, since he was born to druids in the Circle of the Stars. Needless to say, this video was an inspiration for this homebrew I got. Still, would love to give what this player's cooked up a try some time.

[@chicken-films10]

88th comment:

[@westbjumpin4859]

ah second nice

[@JohnDoe-dr7ep]

Sorry i don't mean to be that guy but i really don't like gun's in game's and movie's if it's not with in the possibly explain but after i saw this it's all good

[@dubuyajay9964]

I'm not a fan of firearms in Medieval Fantasy either. Sorry. :(

[@callnitid]

Honestly I’m off the opinion that guns belong in future types games and not games like dnd but I will respect others table, nothing but the theme ruin to me

[@thenerdbeast7375]

To the people that feel to rules lawyer about guns: its a fantasy which means "anything goes", that is what makes it A FUCKING FANTASY.

[@brandonprice119]

Tbf sounds like a shit game Bob should probably just move on.

[@cicisstormshelter1076]

To the guy who played a gunslinger: I really enjoy the fact that you were upgrading your weapon instead of just replacing it with a magical weapon. That sort of weapon improvement is a nice idea that works best with firearms due to how you are basically taking a weapon you use for life and improving it instead of just swapping weapons over and over like with swords and longbows. I play a lot of JRPGs and feel like this should be in such a game to give a personality to the weapons instead of just making them throwaway items. When someone disses you for using a firearm, just laugh at them because they won't be keeping their +1 sword forever while you have "Bessy." ^_^ Also, I'm with you on people who whine about "guns don't exist in high fantasy!" People like that refuse to stray from the status quo and therefore are nerfing the experience for everyone. (Fires a kazapple cannon at the problem player. ;p)

[@tristanhall7859]

This is total 100% bullshit guns should never be in D&D I refuse to ever play with anyone who wants to add guns to DND DND supposed to be fantasy not Sci-fi if you want play sci-fi go play Warhammer 40K guns have no place in DND I can't even finish watching this video it pisses me off so much I'm not even five minutes in

[@inventiveowl395]

Statement: false Correction: Bullshit guns should never be in D&D as well as other op builds, mechanics etc. As a matter of fact, the story "Legendary Archer Single-Handedly Ends A War" on this channel shows that a bow and arrow can be as overpowered as an overpowered gun. As heard in the previously mentioned story, it has been proven that op builds, settings etc. can be fun, if they are agreed upon by all parties, and treated the right way - mainly, but definitely not exclusively, by the dm. If one finds themselves playing with/against an op build, it is advised to use logic and facts together with calmness to resolve the situation, as anger, spitefulness and denial has proven to be dangerous to all parties involved.

[@tristanhall7859]

@@inventiveowl395 I don't agree with guns being in D&D guns overpower archery and if you have guns then you know they're going to have cannons and grenades and at that point magic is now obsolete and Fighters were automatically obsolete the moment you allowed guns, so in my opinion if you allow guns then you might as well not play a spellcaster or Ranger or a fighter. And at that point most of D&D is ruined. There are few archery builds that can keep up with the power of guns. Plus an upgraded gun usually overpowers any archery build.

[@EyeOfMagnus4E201]

@@tristanhall7859 If you were talking about modern guns you might have a point, but muzzle-loaded, smooth-bore muskets don’t overpower archery as bows have a much faster rate of fire, more accuracy, and in comparison to muzzle-loading pistols, a much longer range. There were many historical incidences where muzzle-loading guns were used alongside bows until the invention of rifled guns. In the Japanese warring states period, for example, archers were still used in mass alongside units of musket men because bows were capable of things that the muzzle-loaders were not. As far as D&D is concerned, in the Dungeon Master’s Guide, all guns are MARTIAL weapons. That means in a campaign that uses guns, the people who use the guns (assuming you’re not using weird home-brewed classes, which I would definitely not) would be the RANGERS and FIGHTERS, and spellcasters would not be made obsolete by muskets any more than they’re made obsolete by crossbows (which guns function like a variant of in D&D). The main reason guns don’t appear much in D&D is because most D&D games are placed in medieval settings where guns don’t exist, but there are campaigns based more in renaissance-style, three-musketeer or pirate type settings where the presence of muzzle loading guns, especially pistols (and with pirate campaigns, cannons) would be expected.

[@tristanhall7859]

Let's look at this story for a moment he was given a musket which automatically was given rifling and he had plans of which to upgrade the weapon. I don't know about you but I don't know if it is fair to just automatically give a musket any abilities that a musket wouldn't normally have

[@tristanhall7859]

@@EyeOfMagnus4E201 I would ask to agree to disagree due to the fact that I believe every gun owner is going to want to upgrade their gun into a badass modern gun, but let me say this on the matter. If everyone agrees to it and everyone in the game has no issue with it whatsoever then it's fine but I feel like that this is one of those things that needs to be said twice if not, Thrice due to the fact that it's just a game-changing affair if not game-breaking.