The Latest AI Controversy Shaking the Book World

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Another AI-related controversy has rocked the writing world. When the NaNoWriMo (National Novel Writing Month) organization released a statement on their position regarding AI usage earlier this week, the literary world had thoughts. There’s a lot to dissect, so today, I’m going to break down the statement and the backlash it received to help get you up to speed.
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MORE WRITING AND PUBLISHING ADVICE:
AI Is Stealing Books and Authors Are Livid: • AI Is Stealing Books a...
How AI/ChatGPT Will Change Book Publishing Forever: • How AI/ChatGPT Will Ch...
NaNoWriMo 2023: Should You Participate?: • NaNoWriMo 2023: Should...
NANOWRIMO’S AI STATEMENT CONTROVERSY:
01:24 - What’s going on with NaNoWriMo?
10:23 - Consequences
ABOUT ME:
My name is Alyssa Matesic, and I’m a professional book editor with nearly a decade of book publishing and editorial experience. Throughout my career, I’ve held editorial roles across both sides of the publishing industry: Big Five publishing houses and literary agencies. The goal of this channel is to help writers throughout the book writing journey-whether you're working on your manuscript or you're looking for publishing advice.
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[@erichammers9240]

“Computers are useful servants but are not good masters”- Spock, TOS

[@thelastmonte1]

It sounds like they're saying , "Just participate in our thing. We really dont care if you use AI to write some or all of it. But if you do its probably because you're disadvantaged. Just write so we can take partial credit."

[@DrakeEastwood]

they're saying: Ai needs your information or it will not evolve in the future.

[@gingersnap5245]

Oh yes, and equity is important…the dumb will be given the ability to write a book. Wait. They’re so dumb they think they actually wrote one.😂

[@hardnewstakenharder]

As someone who came up extremely poor, it's bizarre entering the middle class and seeing so many "disabled" people in it who can't do something like write. I work as a SPED educator and see mild to severe cases of learning disabilities and communication disorders and we use technology to better the quality of life for these students and then I encounter people in my degree program who live very comfortable lives who then tell me it's "ableist" to expect them to write a paper without AI. I didn't know it was expanding towards NaNoWriMo.

[@Naradan2.0]

Like everything else, writing for the most case is not something that everyone is born talented with. Many needs teachers to help them learning, and then there are people who still have a hard time learning even after receiving the assistance of teachers. I can't tell you how many times I have a facepalm moment over seeing how dumb people are in logic and reading comprehension. But then I always remember that analytical thinking and language comprehension is just simply the talent that I'm born with, while being so average at things like sport...and writing. I'm even suck at writing a letter myself. I think people just need to realize more that none of them are the perfect standard of how everyone else had to be as well. Otherwise we would all be Einstein, Mohammed Ali, and Leonardo Da Vinci at the same time.

[@goldwhitedragon]

You are AI. Please go away.

[@miguelpadeiro762]

​@Naradan2.0 If I am not good a sports, dont have a natural talent for it and yet want to pursue a hobby or even a career in the field, what am I to do? Train. Not dope myself because "it's the only way i can compete and i am by default inferior to others" Writing is a creative process. Not everyone is shakespeare. You do not have to be shakespeare to write. It's art. It's a creative project. Everyone can be creative. It's a matter of expressing yourself Using AI is the antithesis to self-expression, which you replace with the reformulated work of others, which the AI tool has delievered to you. AI is awesome and I use it very often. It just keeps getting better. But we must learn restraint as a people with this new technology. In this modern culture of consumerism and fast paced everything, "I wanna learn everything as fast as possible and do everything ws fast as possible" without much thought put into it, people are sacrificing their own self expression, one of the greatests gifts in life.

[@TerranceJohnqa]

read the forbidden book Magnetic Aura on Borlest, and you'll see the secrets they're keeping from us.

[@Yonnie221590]

From the Borlest website: "...However, we’ve made sure to make them available to you. From the secret rituals and techniques used by Jews to manifest money, to the hidden hacks for making money online used by today’s business gurus. You’ll also discover the universal laws of the universe known only to the elite at the top of the pyramid, and much more..." What kind of 4chan garbage is being peddled here?

[@brodor6277]

My thinking on AI is that there are certain tools which have been generally accepted by authors for a long time; if you are using AI to replace those tools, such as a dictionary, a thesaurus, an encyclopedia, etc., then there’s no problem. However, having AI write for you removes your integrity as an author. You remove your own voice and deprive the world of a fresh perspective.

[@kerri-lynbryant293]

Agreed

[@eternal_napalm6442]

If you aren't using AI to aid in line editing, you are handicapping yourself. For instance, take a paragraph you wrote. Insert it into ChatGPT. Ask to edit and polish your paragraph... maintaining the prose and tone... and write 5 different variations for your analysis. It is revolutionary and if you are hellbent on sending an real editor slop, that's your choice.

[@michaelpowers6551]

@@eternal_napalm6442I won’t lie I have done that a few times. I’m not completely comfortable doing it cause I feel like it doesn’t help me to grow as a writer if I can’t trim the fact so to speak. Honestly I like ai…it’s been a great tool for me. I’m not for using it to right but damn has it been great for brain storming.

[@Edinburghdreams]

@@eternal_napalm6442 Just hand it your writer badge and be done with it.

[@tayh.6235]

​@@eternal_napalm6442 Or because I'm actually good at writing, I chose the exact words and word order I wanted so I don't need an algorithm to randomize it for me. It's already how I want it. If you write slop, that's a skill issue and you should work to improve it instead of making a an algorithm do it for you

[@S.W.Bestwriter]

I've written 35 books. Some are 200k-282k words long, and others are short (for me, 130k). One book took four years. Another took ten years to get right. You heard right. TEN YEARS. I'm not really a fan of AI other than as a spell check. AI, for me, is like a drum machine in the 80's. All the drummers freaked out, but nothing, NOTHING beats the real human experience. I continue to write down what the voice say in my head, without the prompt of a machine. It's worked out pretty well for me so far. :)

[@hardnewstakenharder]

Motley Crue is using playbacks in their live shows and the fans can tell, lol.

[@gao1812]

Thanks for sharing. As someone who's taking a long and arduous time to write it is recomforting to know I'm not alone ❤

[@casualtmusic]

I'm a drummer (and a writer) and I approve this message!

[@keegster7167]

@@gao1812this is tangential but I love this word: recomfort :)

[@geneedgerton4482]

Well, there you go. I’m finished with NanoWriMo. Second, I’m truly getting tired of all of this equality/equity arguments. It just sounds like people whining all the time. Great artists do come from harsh backgrounds, and their struggles are what makes the intriguing story and the great art.

[@nangld]

Rich people who have the money to pay their personal editors can start their own competition "Rich Boys Club".

[@pulpogaraje]

A lot if it stems from narcissism. Expecting unearned special status/attention.

[@DannyBoy443]

You're finished how? lol. You've done and submitted your ready story? Or you're leaving as a result of this? I'll give you the former. The latter, that's giving up.

[@5Gburn]

Wait. Did the NaNoWriMo team say that underrepresented authors may *need* to use AI because they're underrepresented? Meaning, their work won't be good enough if they did the work themselves? And that they'd fail in the indie space? Indie publishing is where anyone can shine if they put in the effort and get creative with marketing.

[@janeyrevanescence12]

that's very much what they mean, sadly.

[@marthawest6717]

There is literally publishing houses dedicated to minorities now! They have a much better chance than they did twenty years ago. Not to mention I've read some excellent indie published works. The method of publication doesn't necessarily mean quality..... NAMOWRIMO has a lot it needs to address. The implications are heartbreaking.

[@hardnewstakenharder]

It's like they're weaponizing minority identities to continue pushing AI. Like, I'm a minority author, and the major obstructions to us are how little free time we get to write and explore art as compared to middle class white authors, how much access we get to literature when we don't get libraries funded. AI is like putting a bandaid on generations of historical racism.

[@5Gburn]

@@marthawest6717 It's an advanced case of foisting learned helplessness and demoralization onto the crowd. In short, Idiocracy. Pass the Brawndo--this might take a minute to fully assimilate.

[@Naradan2.0]

They're basically saying that the use of AI tools for editing and proofreading shouldn't be opposed. What underrepresented writers that had to go the indie route needs the most are editors and proofreaders, not ghost writers. When a writer is represented by a literary company, they will get in-house editors and proofreaders for free. For indie writers, they had to either pay to hire editor and proofreader themselves, or use AI tools. For editing and proofreading, most AI tools can be used for free.

[@sunnybnny]

I tried Ai to see what the hubbub was about. The output was absolute garbage when left to its own device. I still don’t understand why anyone thinks Ai could be a standalone substitute for quality creative writing. The Ai user STILL has to have a writing skillset and a creative mind for good results and to know what that means. The user STILL has to do a ton of work and guide it in the right direction for a quality read in the end. It’s sort of like Photoshop… anyone can use it, but not everyone has the creative vision and talent to use it well. IMO, Ai is just a tool for the author to use to simplify certain processes, but it could never take the place of the human mind and its creative genius. As for NaNoWriMo….if someone wants to write their garbage novel with Ai and give themselves a pat on the back without actually doing the work to meet the challenge…? It’s their own personal crappy choice and they are only hurting themselves in the end. People need to calm down because there are far worse things in the world to worry about.

[@MrEvldreamr]

Yes! What you said is true. It cannot work without a human being guiding and directing it

[@BruceWayne15325]

I don't think any serious authors are actually trying to use AI to write their books. Sure, there's some low-content hacks out there trying, inspired by the get rich quick schemes that KZbinr's are pushing to get views. Those make me laugh. Authors and rich are two words that have nothing in common. You'd make more money starting a bad garage band than trying to start off as an author. The authors, like myself, that use AI in our writing use it to accelerate and improve our writing experience. Much of the author community has a misperception that people are telling AI "hey, write a book about this." That couldn't be further from the truth. If they did, they'd get a mountain of trash. I'd suggest checking out author specific software that is designed with the author in mind, that just happens to have AI support. Software like NovelCrafter. If you are properly populating the codex and filling out all of the scene beats yourself, and only then, when the AI has a very narrow set of instructions and is only allowed to write a couple of hundred words, do you let it go. Most of the time it's still crap, but it's crap that you can edit in your second draft. My goal in using AI is to get to the second draft as quickly as possible. You don't do editing in the first draft because your editor is likely to tell you to rewrite quite a bit anyway. Cleanup comes after developmental editing. If you do use AI though, it's important to maintain your integrity and do plagiarism checks for any original thought that the AI comes up with (usually it's just little things like jokes since you've restricted it so much.)

[@acidhedzgamez1867]

@@BruceWayne15325 Precisely, I am not good at rote writing, and frankly I don't enjoy the "writing" part of writing a story. I like being creative. Worldbuilding, character creation, outlining, etc. The "writing" is just work. There are only so many ways you can assemble words in order to tell a story. If I paid a ghost writer to sit and do the stuff I don't like doing, according to these people that's fine. I do the same with an AI, somehow that's wrong. It's hypocritical. I am still the one giving it all the ideas and information. I am the one directing every single thing it writes. I am the one proofreading and correcting the countless mistakes, tangents, jumping ahead in the story, etc that it constantly makes. I am babysitting the AI every step of the way. What I'm not doing is sitting at a blank text doc trying to decide what to write. I'm not worrying about how to say things, or what characters should be saying. I am letting the AI knock out a couple hundred words, then checking it over to see if I like it, then editing and adding as I go. It is EXTREMELY liberating. If people want to spend years slogging through trying to write a book, go for it. I'd rather use AI to keep things moving and finish a book in a few months. The anti-ai nonsense is pretentious snobbery. Nothing else.

[@BruceWayne15325]

@@acidhedzgamez1867 well I think most of the anger comes from a lack of understanding about the technology. People have the impression that pseudo-authors are telling AI "make this book for me" and it does it. That's simply not the case... or at least if anyone is dumb enough to try that they aren't getting any sales. Being an author is a lot of work, far beyond simply writing. Writing is actually the easy part. Even with AI, it takes me about a month or two to write the book. But then I have to go through the editorial gauntlet, because let's face it. AI writing is absolutely terrible, even the best models like Sonnet 3.5 are not producing prose that anyone would want to read. I don't look at this as a huge problem though since AI still saves me time in that I can get to the developmental edit that much faster. The editor will typically request major changes that will require a massive amount of rewriting anyway. I don't typically use AI much once I've reached the developmental editing stage. From that point on, it's me fixing up the novel, rewriting it with my voice and style, cleaning up the scenes to be sure that the conflict pops, etc. The editorial process still takes months and months. AI is a great boon, but it's by no means a replacement for authors or editors. A good book isn't written, it's edited and polished. Even if you're writing with AI (actually, especially if you're writing with AI) you have months and months of editing ahead of you when you finally finish "writing" to turn your mountain of garbage into something beautiful that people want to actually read.

[@acidhedzgamez1867]

@@BruceWayne15325 I use Sudowrite, it allows me to tell the AI how I want it to write, so I've never had much of a problem with the prose. Besides, considering that a lot of books that are very popular, are not considered to have very good prose, I'm not that worried about it.

[@carolyndilbeck7654]

While I have little fear about AI replacing genuine writing, as an aspiring editor, it concerns me how many people are defending the use of AI in editing. We have to stand up to it before it becomes a genuine threat. People forget that there are other and better tools out there without it. Let's not forget the advantage of human editors: they can catch your vision for the story and help you get there. They can tell you how readers are likely to experience it and help your story come across the way you want it to. It's not all about grammar.

[@astevenswrites]

I did NaNoWriMo last year all on my own. My goal was not to write a book in a month, but to build better writing habits and push myself on the book I had already made some progress on. My daily goal was 500 words. By the end of the month, I had essentially doubled my current draft's length, and I came out of it with a renewed sense of drive and habits that helped me finish my book by March. So yes, there is absolutely no need to participate officially. Just set a goal and watch your writing habits change for the better!

[@AntirisDark]

For years I've heard about nanowrimo from writers who didn't even mention that there was some kind of organization attached to the challenge. And I've already tried the challenge twice without even knowing that the nonprofit existed. So this year I'll be trying it again. For myself, as a motivation tool, not for them.

[@soccerguy325]

That "classism"/"ableism" argument is such a cop-out, and pretty insulting to poor/disabled writers. If you need generative AI to help "improve" your writing, then you were never built for the craft in the first place. Like Alyssa said, writing is free, and talent and hard work knows no class boundaries.

[@ravensthatflywiththenightm7319]

I agree. I swear the only people going on diatribes about "ableism" and "classism" are the ones who know [or at least believe] they don't have any talent and need some kind of cheat to get up on the pedestal. You know like how a lot of amateur artists just copy anime styles and insist "it's their style".

[@absolutelycitron1580]

Agree with all but the last part. Talent and hard work can definitely be negated by class. This is why we have underqualified untalented nepo babies

[@dmitrysamoilov5989]

Ai is actually really great. Blanket anti-ai stances like that are throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The biggest thing you lose when ai is used by people is the "permission" from society to feel that toxic superiority you get from being more successful than other human beings. It's intoxicating, necessary for evolution, but also very immature. It's more mature to allow ai and humble humanity not to be so special, and at the same time, being ok with that. Not getting depressed because other possible beings can be better than us would be a true test of humanity's capacity for grace. Sadly, we all start from 0%, and everybody must make the mistakes of their ancestors. I can't force you to be more mature, I can only invite you to be.

[@soccerguy325]

@@dmitrysamoilov5989 "Ai is actually really great" said no real writer ever. If you actually think any kind of generative AI can produce writing better than a human's you should never be anywhere near a keyboard.

[@soccerguy325]

@@absolutelycitron1580 That's not what I was saying though. I said that talent knows no class boundaries, not that untalented people can get ahead because they have the resources to. That's a completely different argument.

[@Rusthate101]

I use AI in my writing as a tool. I handwrote my manuscript and being a slow typer...typist? typerer?...I would just dictate each chapter into google docs and use AI to look for certain things....as an example, I would have them list all the names in the chapter. I know who should be there, but if the dictation robot misheard me, it could have changed a name. Like changing Lor to Laura. I use it for basic editing and when I get it tight enough, I'll hire someone to do my main copy edit. The more I can get it polished before I send it to a service that I (rightfully) have to pay for, the cheaper it may be on me in the long run. It should never write the story.

[@hardnewstakenharder]

Speech to text is a fantastic tool and my SPED students use it regularly.

[@jasonsumma1530]

for me this sounds no different than the typical grammar\spelling tools that most document programs use. The autocorrect feature is probably what gets the names wrong since it may not recognize Lor as being a real name.

[@Belthazar1113]

Very few people have issues with non generative AI. That is where the arguments happen. Accessibility Assistance is getting classified as "AI" and getting lumped in with Generative AI that takes a 20 word prompt and turns it into a 2500 word chapter.

[@MrEvldreamr]

I use it for grammar and spellcheck too. Its also a decent thesaurus, though goofle works just as well.

[@MrEvldreamr]

@@Belthazar1113 see i dont even know what you said. I have no idea what any of that means 😂. Imo, AI is like any other invention its there for ease of process but it can never truly replace human creativity bc it cannot function without a human being. And im pretty sure humans are amart enough to know a book is AI generated. There are telltale signs

[@josephsimon5751]

This is so bizarre. It feels like its saying "Because you struggle with coming up with a plot, creating compelling characters, describing a scene, and writing a book, you should be able to us AI." So basically, if you're not good at being a writer, you should be able to use AI to level the playing field with those who are good writers. I don't know if you can "cheat" when it comes to writing, but this kind of feels like it.

[@kensheck2049]

When I first read the story "Harrison Bergeron" decades ago, I naively thought it was a ridiculous premise. Now I it's obvious that Vonnegut was prescient.

[@Axxman300]

NaNoWriMo's position is disappointing. As someone with cerebral palsy it's insulting. The whole idea behind the competition is to draft 50,000 words of your novel. That's it. That's around 2,000 words a day with a few breaks thrown it. If successful the writer experiences the thrill of crossing a big finish line, and develops solid writing habits along the way. I'm 7 out of 11 with NaNoWriMo, and I love the challenge. But a key element of the challenge is knowing thousands of other writers are suffering along with me in November. I've put other manuscripts on hold just to do NaNoWriMo because the idea of cheating, and dropping chapters in what were written weeks and months before is dishonest, and the whole point is to push your writing skills as far as they can go. AI for drafting is cheating. Period. NaNoWriMo's defense is a series of pallid straw men. Editing is not drafting. Every writer knows this, and I think AI has a place in editing just as spell-check does (spell-check is technically AI). They never address AI as a drafting tool directly in their weak defense, and then to imply those who are negative about AI are bigoted is a cheap-shot. If you're doing NaNoWriMo you have a computer and or internet access, and while you might not be rich you're in the game. At the end of the day all you need is a pencil and paper to write a novel if that is your passion. Their inability or unwillingness to separate editing AI from drafting AI is discouraging. Worse, for the first time I worry out all the text I loaded into their word-counter in previous competitions. Have they secretly been feeding manuscripts to AI startups? As someone with a disability I don't want the bar lowered for my participation. There is no better pride than making the grade just like everyone else by doing the work. Yes it's hard, but anything worthwhile always takes work. The idea that I can cruise in with an AI-generated manuscript simply because my brain doesn't let me type with more than two fingers is insulting. AI is not the same as a wheelchair ramp, or disabled stall in a public restroom. Those are legitimate tools for equal access. AI as a drafting tool is not about equal access. It's about cheating. If you want to be a hack writer that's not a crime as long as you do the writing yourself.

[@ican384]

It’s not like Nanowrimo didn’t know there would be backlash. The only reason I can see them doubling down on such a controversial topic is 💵💵💵💵

[@thehevytrooper]

i personally am using ai (by that i mean chat gpt) to do things like research for my novel, and as a way to check my first draft for any plot issues or grammer issues while writing. it also just feels good to be able to discuss different ideas and approaches that i wouldn't go and ask someone about. for example: i was thinking what the mortality rate should be in my stories main group. so the ai gave me some similar books and told me what the mortality rate is in those. and then i chose based off the book that i felt had the most believable but not heartbreaking amount of deaths. its also great for keeping track of my word count and telling me what amount of words i should aim to have in each chapter etc. and it points out sections where i could write better... chat gpt realy helped me start, it made a lot of stuff easier and more simple. its still my story that im writing from start to finish, but it definetly helps to have an ai to consult with.

[@ChelissaMoon]

@@thehevytrooper exactly

[@Jungaloowi333]

I also use it for brainstorming. You shouldn't use AI to write your book for you because you'll end up with boring and repetitive writing. Instead, you may use it as a tool to help you find the words you need to say what you intend to say. AI has sped up my writing process so much.

[@gabrielonyango5876]

I use it just as you. "Tell me if this scenario is believable." "How do I describe a criminal without talking about his face"

[@gabuko_web_studio]

Just in case you don't know anything you put into AI tools they are going to train their data on it.

[@crazydave333]

To me, AI is just a glorified search engine.

[@JustClaude13]

NaNoWriMo is entirely on the honor system. If you write, "I like to write stories." 10,000 times that would be a legitimate win and a boring read. Being on the honor system you could score a win just by logging in every day and updating your word count without actually writing anything. Nobody could tell if you wrote anything or not. So I'm not worried about whether someone is using AI. Even I have an AI spell-check nagging that my names don't match the expected English vocabulary.

[@Sokolva]

Exactly, that’s why it’s so odd that they went out of there way to write such a badly crafted post deliberately defending AI usage in their competition despite all of the theft issues. With them having a generative AI sponsor with subscription services and costs up to $700, their leader wrote this on their own without consulting anyone and managed to make everyone angry with how they did it, except the AI tech supporters who were happy that their weak classist, ableist arguments were utilized by a once very respected organization.

[@BidwellRunner]

They aren't saying AI is the solution to these problems. They explicitly don't promote or condemn any specific technique. It's just that for writers who do view AI as the solution to their problems, NaNoWriMo doesn't condemn them.

[@brindlebucker4741]

Yeah, but I don't want to compete against someone using performance enhancing drugs if I'm an athlete, and I want the sports governing body of my sport to take a firm stance against it. Right? Drug tests and all that. I also don't want to compete against someone who is simply using AI to write 50,000 somewhat coherent words in order to try to win a contest against people who have actually used their writing skills (that they have worked hard to develop) to write their own stories. Not saying people shouldn't be allowed to use AI to write. But they shouldn't use AI in a contest environment. I mean, what would be the point of the Nobel, Booker, or Pulitzer prizes if it turns out all the authors winning those prestigious awards were using AI to draft their stories?

[@BidwellRunner]

@@brindlebucker4741 NaNoWriMo isn't a competition. The only prize is the satisfaction of having completed a novel. Anyone can cheat and submit a novel they've spent years on. There are no safeguards against cheating because you don't even win anything anyway. I agree that for whatever competition there is, if there are AI rules then participants should adhere to them.

[@meme-bu8qu]

@@BidwellRunner No, but trying to get books published is. If a publishing company can just use AI to get new books written, why bother getting an author. It can just "read" past stories and blend together a new story. That is what authors are competing against.

[@asteroid267]

They're correct, though they should have been more specific about the general types of AI assistance they approve or disapprove of. Saying everyone has equal access to writing "because I did it" is exactly the classism they're referring to. When they say ableism and disabilities, they're not talking about people in wheelchairs. They're talking about certain types of neurodivergence that make it very difficult to perform certain tasks in the writing process that others can do easily. Some of those people have enough money and resources to pay to overcome those obstacles. Others can't. "What," I hear you asking, "did they do before modern tools like AI?" They started Nanowrimo, got really frustrated, and gave up on writing. I know it's hard to believe, but there are one or two people who didn't finish Nanowrimo. Also, I'm an editor myself, and eventually my job will be mostly eliminated by AI tools (though I do mostly scientific work so it'll probably be among the last to fall to AI). However, the reality is that most writers can't afford a human editor for everything they write, and those are the people who stand to benefit the most from AI assistance.

[@wickdaline8668]

AI may be better off as a search engine instead of a writing tool.

[@IchNachtLiebe]

AI is really helpful for editing but that is where it should come to a stop. Use it to make sure your commas are used properly and you don't have double spaces where one will do. The content should be all human in my opinion. The details of grammar can be touched up with AI ethically.

[@woopitywoo]

i actually find searching for certain things, even restaurants or locations much more difficult. idk if it's just google, might have to switch search engine.

[@miketemple7686]

If you’re interested in AI as a research tool, I’d suggest Perplexity over ChatGPT. Perplexity quotes its resources.

[@djwaglmuffin]

Until it tells you to eat a poison mushroom

[@IchNachtLiebe]

@djwaglmuffin *With swollen face. "Are you suggesting I shouldn't have eaten that mushroom?"

[@IchNachtLiebe]

ChatGPT is good for running simulations of reading groups who are reading your work. It isn't a very good writer though. Grammarly is a great option for editing though. At least, for the grammatical aspects. I think AI is appropriate as a limited tool to polish things up but shouldn't be used for the actual foundation production side.

[@stephenbarone4053]

Their argument is, if I’m not as strong as the world’s strongest man, then I can use a forklift. Everything has to be fair. People aren’t allowed to be better and yet they’re hosting a contest.

[@ekurisona663]

ding ding ding ☝️

[@IchNachtLiebe]

Some of the greatest works in history, whether writing or something else, have been built from the cracked hands of struggling peasants. Making the pathway easier won't put more heart and soul into work. Instead, we will see a flood of mediocre books and artworks filling every crevice of the market and making it harder for the true gems to come to the surface. My mom reads 3 novels per week on average. It has gotten more difficult for her to find quality in the endless sea of self-published garbage. She does find some exceptional and brilliant indie authors, but it takes some swimming through the swamps to get to the clear and clean water.

[@Rusthate101]

"People aren’t allowed to be better and yet they’re hosting a contest." I almost spit out my pop laughing so hard!

[@kensheck2049]

It's Vonnegut's "Harrison Bergeron."

[@johannamiklos4352]

I am currently taking a class on LLMs at my local library. Fascinating. The lecturer suggested giving all 6 the same prompt and to compare the results. Claude told me off: "This is not what I do." Meta told me I didn't give it enough information, ChatGPT and Perplexity rephrased my question in paragraph form, and the two remaining suggested I look elsewhere (ancestry research, genealogy at local library) for answers. Most did, however, conclude that the person I am researching is "unimportant" and/or "not historically relevant." I can't wait to find out more at my local library. :)

[@richardbaranowski]

Ray Charles was blind and Beethoven was deaf, where the hell are they going with this?

[@Naradan2.0]

Are you saying that all deaf people are capable of doing what Beethoven did? Exactly. People need to stop thinking that how talented one person born to be as a standard on how talented everyone else had to be born as. You and I can't do what Beethoven do, deaf or not deaf. What they mean by classist and ableist is barring people like us from creating something as good as Beethoven with help from tools. If you think more calmly about it, it is indeed classist and ableist way of thinking. Also btw, they're talking about using AI for editing and prrofereading, not for the writing part of it. It's very apparent on their wording of it, despite not being clearly specified. I'm honestly baffled that some supposed professionals at writing companies failed to see it.

[@FalloutUrMum]

Beethoven wasn't born deaf. He became deaf due to an illness as he got older. He wrote pieces while deaf, but would use a pencil pressed against the piano and in his mouth to go through each note.

[@Naradan2.0]

@@FalloutUrMum exactly my point. Beethoven didn't born deaf, but he's born with high talent in musical comprehension. Anyone who thinks that just about anyone can learn to be as good as Beethoven are delusional. To reach the height Beethoven, we need both talent and hard work. No amount of hard work will get anyone to Beethoven's height of musical sense, if they don't have talent for it. You have no idea how many of my friends work really hard learning foreign language, and still got 7 or 8 out of 10...while I get 10/10 by lazing around. Yes, I'm rather talented in language comprehension, I'm very naturally capable in that area. Talent matters...and I'm not about to tell my friends who struggles with foreign languages despite their genuine hard work to not use translators for their job. That's why, I firmly believe that we shouldn't tell people not to use AI tool to do editor and proofreader job, when they're underrepresented and had no money to hire human for the job.

[@Edinburghdreams]

@@Naradan2.0 You can do what Beethoven did though, all the evidence shows you just need to grind from a very young age. I'll attach links to the research.

[@Edinburghdreams]

@@Naradan2.0 A choice quote from the research: "Consistently and overwhelmingly, the evidence showed that experts are always made, not born."

[@kaeilia]

Where I'm at, my local ML has actually resigned. In light of the incident last year, they cracked down hard on expectations and were expecting people to essentially do jobs for more than half the year (around the months of Nano, and Camp Nano) for free. My former ML (whom I am friends with) just couldn't do it. In my writer's group, we all work full time jobs, as well as write. There's no time for an additional unpaid job in the meantime, with no benefit or perks whatsoever. I don't use AI tools myself, but have some friends who do. Especially to help them in beginning to track down comparable titles that they can then go forward to read! There are certainly advantages to using it in specific instances, but generative leaves such a bad taste... I do wish the Nano team were more clear on what tools they were speaking of. My local group was planning to do a 'spirit of nano' without it being formal kind of challenge anyway, and this just solidifies that decision. I really appreciate your take and information on this. Thank you!

[@souldata7843]

I draw the line at AI writing the book. I don't see any issues with writers getting help from AI tools. I mean, why pay someone to spot a basic/silly grammar error (we all make them) when even the free AI tools can do it as your writing? I can even give them limited use of generative AI. Sometimes the brain pan is just fried and you need a little help figuring out how to phrase something. or use it as a placeholder while you keep working on the rest of the book. Like all other tech, there are legitimate times and places to use AI. If you don't support the use of AI, just don't read the books that use it.

[@joevaldez6457]

Well said. As soon as other people or committees start dictating what "real" writing is and who earned their spot in line, we're all in trouble.

[@djwaglmuffin]

That ableism thing really got under my skin. There are plenty of solutions to problems disabled writers face that have nothing to do with AI and it's like some of these people don't even want to try.

[@nordicgardener]

As a reader I do not care by whom a book is written as long as I enjoy it. I think trying to stop AI development is futile. I also dislike actors who force a ban on AI in filming. Have they forgot that film-cameras threatened theater-actors? What if the unions back then had said no to any filming? As long as human writers and actors produce better stories they have nothing to be afraid of.

[@eternal_napalm6442]

Traditional publishing is flipping out about AI because it is a major threat to their power structure and, most importantly, their money. ChatGPT is spectacular at Line Editing...especially when you give specific parameters and edit more yourself.

[@StefanTrifonov-t4r]

It’s ridiculous how some people believe AI could be stopped. I agree, it’s disconcerting and something new and frightening. Please don’t just write your whole novels using AI. But who honestly thinks AI can be stopped? That horse has bolted.

[@ChelissaMoon]

There is an ableism component to AI. I’ve made this argument for illustration too, as I am both a writer and artist. The issue I have is using it as a finished work, rather than part of your ideation or research process. Personally, I use it as a tool to get over anxiety and neurodivergence. I don’t use it write but I use it to help organize my thoughts and act as an interactive smarthub. Their arguments makes sense but they weren’t clear enough in condemning the elephant in the room.

[@PetProjects2011]

I love that a Book Baby ad played after this.

[@fanpandatastic]

But we wanna know what YOUR thoughts are.

[@mejitate7807]

In AI honest opinion, AI is revolutionizing the writing world by offering tools for grammar and style checking, generating content, enhancing creativity, providing language translations, and personalizing reading experiences, thereby making writing more accessible and efficient for diverse audiences. NaNoWriMo might be looking to open up the writing world to non-professional writers like me who use AI assistance to express their creativity. The contest is supposed to be a fun thing that allows writers to use their imaginations with or without the help of AI assistance. It took me a while to train my AI assistant, but now it knows exactly my style and tone of my creative writing. PEACE AND LOVE.

[@ScottJ_Moses]

Nano No No.

[@Naradan2.0]

As an avid novel reader, this video kinda baffled me. From what I can see, from what you present yourself in this video, I think NaNoWriMo organizers are talking specifically about the use of AI tools for things like editing and proofreading, not for the physical process of the writing part of it. They doesn't seem to be talking about using AI tools for writing the whole novel itself. It does takes a lot of money to hire good editors and proofreaders, which is why they said it's rather classist and ableist to oppose the use of AI. Indie writers without access to literary agents, can't have access to "free" editors and proofreaders provided by publishing companies. Learning language as non-native speaker also not free, and even native speakers are more often than not are so bad at their own language's rules. Education are more often than not not free. Yes, they didn't specify it on their writing...but does all editors and writers that daft in reading comprehension to read between the lines? do you need everything to be that specified? I can easily spot it, how can you the supposed professional in the industry failed to see it?

[@theunluckybard7517]

If they wanted to be specific, they would have been specific. The vagueness is intentional. They weren't rushing to meet a deadline; hell, they could have never said anything at all and nobody would have noticed. They took exactly as much time as they needed to craft this post, and said exactly what they intended to say, including in their little edit (which was still intentionally vague). They *want* people to "read between the lines" and assume that NaNo isn't *really* talking about ocean-boiling Large Larceny Models. But they are. If they weren't, they had plenty of time to put together a statement on their own platform that clearly said they weren't. "Does all [youtube commenters] that daft in reading comprehension [sic]" that you don't pay attention to what a person consciously chooses NOT to say? And is it a coincidence that the sponsor they just spent a month spam emailing everyone about has a paid tier with genAI writing assistance?

[@Naradan2.0]

@@theunluckybard7517 they don't have to be that specific. There is also quite literally no vagueness at all, as they've already said in one of their letter that writing a whole novel with AI is silly. They don't need to be specific on every single writings, as all their writings are added to each others as a whole letter of statements. That's not to mention their latest writing itself, where they mention terms like "classist" and "ableist", is already clearly hinted by its wording toward talking about editing and proofreading AI tools. Let me put it bluntly, it's not their responsibility to coddle you for your own lacking in reading comprehension by specifying it in every single letters they wrote. You're responsible with yourselves for being a better reader. Even more so if you're a writer or a so called professional in literary industry, be fucking professional, be less sensational and gossipy, be better. For starter, use less emotional judgment when reading letters, it helps.

[@theunluckybard7517]

@@Naradan2.0 Oh, ok, so you're just here to be an asshole and argue. Or maybe you really DO think Public Relations communications are 100% true with no reading-between-the-lines required. Either way, enjoy your ChatGPT novel, I'm sure it'll do great.

[@MrEvldreamr]

@@Naradan2.0 uh… i agree w some of what you said. To me they were better off not saying anything at all or stopping after their first explanation

[@ekurisona663]

my question is how will human writers prove that they wrote something going forward as ai continues to improve there are already AI tools to humanize AI writing how can humans prove that they created and wrote their book without there being a way to prove that a book was written by a human, there won't be any way to keep AI out of the space I'm not saying it's impossible and that it's a lost cause for humans to try to curate human work and to keep it separate from AI generated work I'm just thinking out loud about whether or not it's possible and if it is what does it look like I'm 100% for a seal of approval for human writing but I just don't know how we get there from here now that AI is out of the bag - again assuming that AI will only continue to improve

[@Rusthate101]

My manuscript is handwritten with dates and everything. That's my proof. But not everyone likes longhand. You make a really valid point.

[@ekurisona663]

@@Rusthate101 I've started my project on paper as well - actually I started it in Google docs but I've moved to paper what's your story about? 📜

[@geckojinn1604]

What are your thoughts on authors working on their drafts live on a live stream? With the actual document on screen showing their words being written down as they type them. Artists do full pieces from original sketch to a final product on live streams. Maybe authors should consider doing the same. One gripe could be that writers don't want their ideas being stolen. But with how copyright works, at least in America, the second you write something down it's considered as a copyright and protected from plagiarism. You can also make a separate recording of the stream just to be safe. A lot of writers will probably think it's a crazy idea and not worth the risk, but I know I personally would be extremely interested in watching an author chip away at their latest book or novel live and in the moment, seeing their sentences put down as they type them and getting a glimpse into their mental process as they do it. I would find that extremely fascinating, and I think a lot of other people would too. Sorry for the long response. This is just something that I've been thinking about lately. Maybe the era of the writer being looked upon as a "mystical" figure that works on their craft behind closed doors is behind us, now. Realistically, if an author hopes to find success in our modern world, scratching and clawing just to break through all the noise and constant spectacle that so easily harnesses our attention, we have to be open to being just as much internet celebrities as we are strange and reclusive writers. Maybe AI is ultimately doing all of us a favor and is going to force us out of our shells and out into the world to be gawked at. It's going to be hard to accuse someone of using AI when you can just go onto their page and literally see them work and sweat over every word and comma live and in full spectacle.

[@Jungaloowi333]

It's still pretty easy to tell AI writing when it comes to novels. It just lacks the human author's personal style and emotion

[@jsam-bv6jb]

I'm dyslexic and have other noralogicalI issues. I use AI to help with spelling, sentence structure, listening to what I have written, and on the rare occasion if a paragraph just doesn't sound right, I ask AI for options on how to rewright that paragraph. Sometimes, choosing from more than one suggestion and rearranging the paragraph the way I think it sounds best. It's only that paragraph, not the whole story. What I'm trying to say is I use AI as the tool it should be. Not just let it write the story. That would defeat the whole point of writing a story in the first place.

[@HunterKayWallace]

Thank you for posting! It feels like NaNo is saying in subtext that less advantaged people can't write good books. Okay, almost none of us write good books in first draft--but AI can't fix that. Connecting with other writers and readers later does.

[@FrancisGo.]

Condemnation of AI is ableist in the same sense that gamers telling each other to Get Good is ableist. 😂

[@evelyn_burve]

Your response was nuanced and thorough, as I have come to expect of this channel. Thank you!

[@ScreamingIntoTheOvoid]

It is true that there is a massive bias against writers who don't write well. Story tellers who are bad at telling stories need to be elevated in the writing space. For too long our society has given preference to people who put in the work and are good at what they do and it needs to STOP!

[@123gorainy]

It might be interesting for NANOWRIMO to do a sort of "John Henry against the Machine" competition, a year where they split the competition into two categories: RAW (no AI assistance whatsoever), and ASSISTED (Authors who use some form of AI in writing their drafts). Then, after they choose a winner from each category, have a "Runoff" where they have a panel of experts (whoever they are) pick ONE winner. The problem with totally banning all AI is that now, nearly EVERY SINGLE TOOL you use has incorporated some form of AI.. this includes Grammarly, ProWrite, Fictionary, WORD, Scrivner, etc. etc. AI is becoming almost impossible to avoid, unless you unplug all devices and go back to a typewriter or pen and paper.

[@adamhenrysears3288]

I have my word processor, Wordperfect, that's all. It's all anyone needs to write. I avoid using anything else. When most of these things came out, my thought was "Isn't it the writer's job to learn this stuff?"

[@123gorainy]

@@adamhenrysears3288 WORDPERFECT??? Wow, the best word processing software ever made. Had no idea it was even still in existence, I loved that program. What kind of word processor do you have?

[@gingersnap5245]

Imagination is a threat to the powers that be.

[@janeyrevanescence12]

When I joined them years ago, it was a great place. I was looking for a place to find community after my fiancé died (sad fact, you find your social circle shrinks significantly after the death of a partner). And I found camaraderie and belonging again. I got my first completed novel idea as a result of a NaNo plot bunny. I even met several of my closest friends as a result. A few years ago, it started becoming a toxic echo chamber. I quickly found myself on the wrong side of several arguments through no fault of my own and even harassed for my works as toxic...even though my books had been previously accepted. I even got admonished by mods more than once. I brought up the problem to the higher ups and got pooh-poohed. The harassment got so severe that I left. It's heartbreaking, honestly. But I'm not surprised that's now their stance. They were so focused on being so welcoming that they left the proverbial back door open.

[@xensonar9652]

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that they are in partnership with an AI product.

[@AZ-zq7lx]

Their response looks like it was written by AI 🤨

[@yvesgomes]

It's called creative destruction - not in the sense of destroying creativity, but as destruction that leads to better creations. There is no stopping it.

[@elduriangavriel2130]

You COULD use AI to write an an entire book and the only thing stopping us from doing that is not condemnation but the fact that book would be terrible. Good use of AI: “Give me 5 ideas for a sympathetic villain who hates magic wielders.” Bad use of AI: Write me the a complete backstory for a sympathetic villain that hates magic. And when I say good and bad, I’m not referring to ethics but the quality of results. AI is a great collaborator, it does not remove the need for a good writer.

[@t0dd000]

NaNoWriMo is taking the right approach here for what the organization is. Their mission is to encourage folks to write. That's it. Nothing more. If folks use AI, their evil twin, or just make up the fact that they wrote stuff ... Caring much about that is outside of their bailiwick. They also note that they have no idea where this world is going. Anyway. People will get upset with whatever position the organization takes. This position is about as "we take no position" as you can get. :)

[@joevaldez6457]

Thanks for the clarity, Alyssa. I think this highlights something important for writers, which is to remember no two of us sit down to work with the same resources or tools. A writer who doesn't use ChatGPT, might be using a spouse or assistant to help them research, bounce ideas off of, or read their work. No one asks a writer if their husband helped them with their manuscript, but the hysteria over AI is real. Perhaps _Doctor Who_ and those scary Daleks are to blame.

[@LucentSky]

Why are you robbing yourself of the opportunity of learning or improvement? You might as well not even write, because it's not you writing if you're having something write for you. Creating anything is a process that takes effort, it's not hysteria to dislike laziness because it's causing people like you to get selfish and lazy and to essentially steal the work's of others (Where do you think those data bases that AI pulls from come from?). No one wants to read something a machine made, or view any form of media that a machine made. You can't even call that work your work.

[@zozebee]

I am going to be 100% transparent, Ive published an AI generated book. I did the research and the notes but structured the flow into sections and asked AI to write it. It did what I wanted it to do. Now, I have been working on a Children's Fantasy Fiction story and I wanted to use the AI tools to do the heavy lifting considering my time is limited. AI became STRICTLY for inspiration. Even that is iffy. Artificial Intelligence DOES NOT SOUND NORMAL. I repeat, if youre thinking about jumping on those trends where you crap out a bunch of content like these "how to make money online" guys tell you, DONT DO IT. lmao My idea came straight out of my brain and once I had the outline I knew the world, the characters, the message, the villain and the ending. After taking those details and asking AI to fill everything in, it writes like a robot lol Some parts sound good but the majority of it sounds like somebody else you've read before, Its weird. Sure its good, but I don't know how to explain it. Similar to AI Artwork the end product genuinely feels and sounds manufactured. As cool as it may seem its man made. All that to say

[@Mark-yy7iz]

Sorry Alyssa, I also agree that AI is too broad a technology to outright condemn. Autocorrect in Microsoft word is “AI”. Language translation can be easily achieved with AI. Speech to text translation is an “AI” tech that could enable people who would otherwise be excluded from writing, especially with a tight deadline. Plus I can think of some scenarios where generative AI could genuinely assist an author, with specific emphasis on class. You could use it to understand an experience that is outside of your financial means; going on holiday, sailing a yacht, driving a racing car, eating in a fancy restaurant, etc. This could help make a scene more realistic to the audience.

[@MrRosebeing]

I believe the term is "shaken" but perhaps that's an Americanism that, thankfully, hasn't made it across the "pond" yet.

[@r.michaelburns112]

I've been a member of many writers' groups which were free to join. There's plenty of good free assistance for writers out there. If you can go online to use AI tools, you can find a good online critique group.

[@declanconner9360]

It sounds to me as though it' relates to AI as it is now commonly used for editing, mainly the free downloads without subscription, such a Grammarly, ProWritingAid, or Microsoft editor that comes with Word for grammar and spellcheck. I doubt AI could write a satisfactory 50k book that anyone would want to read, though it could give a story outline for those stuck with ideas.

[@JimParr-uq7oo]

What troubles me most about AI writing tools and their massive adoption is how terrified people are of writing, of just saying the thing in their own words and being okay with it. Everyone feels that what they have to say and how they say just isn't good enough. That's it's gotta be made fancier. I would rather read a human account of something that is genuine and heartfelt and personal, with all of its grammatical warts and wrinkled syntax, than a robot's well-polished imitation. There's a Hemingway story that starts: "That night we lay on the floor in the room and I listened to the silk-worms eating. The silk-worms fed in racks of mulberry leaves and all night you could hear them eating and a dropping sound in the leaves." What I've always loved about that description is Hem could not have written such a thing unless he'd actually experienced it. I had no idea you could hear silk-worms eating and that they'd occasionally fall down through the leaves. This is the advantage that humans have over AI: AI doesn't live in the real world. It won't ever find itself sleep under racks of mulberry leaves while silk-worms spin above them. It can't sit on some lonely cliff and paint the unique landscape laid out in front of it. At best, it can only steal the work of the real humans that experienced those things and then wrote about them...or painted them...or sang about them.

[@pensive8552]

TBH, thier arguments rang true to me and my situation. Almost felt like they were talking about me a times, almost creepy.

[@kenneth1767]

I say writers need to find creative ways of beating AI at its own game. Show that you are a real creative artist by using the greatest powers we have: subtext, metaphorical analogies, creative ways of symbolic thinking etc. If you want to use AI go ahead. Just means you are limiting your own pure creativity, and if not specified that you use AI you will be a fraud unto yourself.

[@JimParr-uq7oo]

It's actually worse than that, though. Generative AI works by probability, what the next word is LIKELY to be. Which means it's DESIGNED to be generic. You aren't going to get any groundbreaking or truly unique material out of it.

[@robertlamont4749]

Please note AI is in its infancy, it will displace many occupations including authors and screen writers. Not a new phenomena, but one that might make for a great storyline. Sounds like a great outline for November!

[@meme-bu8qu]

My ass grew up working class and I am disabeled, call out Ai all you want. These people are just using these words to try to deflect and shield themselves from trouble. Many large corporations have already been using AI without us knowing and they clearly just want to churn out content to make money for themselves with less human engagement. Why I am even more hesitant now of having any books I publish be on e-readers now like Kindle for example. You can't tell me AI won't find ways to access that to churn out more stories. Like the internet is becoming filled with dead space, where there are channels clearly run by bots that churn out AI content, you can't tell me this won't happen in the writer and graphic design and illustrator space only publishing houses will pull this nonsense.

[@Boncomics]

Yeah, my friend Christi from Kumate Works has done that challenge

[@johnmrke2786]

Writing is the least classist thing ever. Picking up a pencil and a sheet of paper is a lower class bar to jump than having a device that can load chatgpt.

[@gabrielonyango5876]

I'm from Kenya. I'm teaching myself fiction and AI is my feedback thing. I'm improving because of it. Instead of paying a human editor I'm using AI. (Developmental, word choice, descriptions, etc.) You say there are other ways of getting feedback for free. Nano does not dispute that. But why not AI? It's the quickest. This is not theory/hypothetical. I'm part of what that Nano statement is describing. So you can imagine what I think about wholesale condemnation of AI as a technology in my case.

[@tayh.6235]

You don't have friends who would be willing to read your work? No access to online writing groups to get peer feedback? No experience reading other books to see what works well for you in those books and then trying to replicate it yourself? In addition to writing, I do fiber arts. If there was a machine that I could prompt with what I wanted and have it do it for me, I wouldn't use it because the whole point of my art is to make it. AI might give faster feedback, but it isn't engaging with your work on a human level. It's doing a mathematical analysis. Output isn't the measure of success. Look at Tolkien. He had very little published during his lifetime in comparison to his whole body of ideas but he's still considered foundational to his genre. Writing one book that came from your craft is more worthy than writing ten books that a math equation told you how to improve by comparing your words to other people's words using only math.

[@MetchkaDeawood-cs2xk]

Had high hopes for nanowrimo. I wanted to be apart of organizing events to help others have a venue to write in should they choose. Sometimes there are moments where writing in a group is exciting and beneficial to the writing process. I was largely ignored and have turned away from the organization. I enjoy writing but now im thinking I no longer have a platform.

[@SarahBeth0828]

It’s good to know where they stand, and I will reconcile my own values against theirs, but I only ever used their site as a guidepost to track my word count-both year to year, and over time. I’m probably not boycotting them entirely. Even if I don’t like what they said, which I interpreted as basically wanting everyone to make their own informed decision.

[@stolenzephyr]

I've watched several videos on this topic, and I think this the most reasonable and fair assessment. Thanks for making it! I appreciate you mentioning different types of AI. That AI tools for editing are distinct from generative tools. I find AI grammar tools helpful, but also expensive. I've seen a lot of discussion on this topic condemning all AI tools equally. But you rightly pointed out that the note from NaNoWriMo did not specify the type of AI, which is a shortcoming of their statement.

[@TremaineAkeWritingLabs]

Man AI is just tearing this community apart.

[@miketemple7686]

EVERY industry is in an uproar with AI. It’s here and not going away. We’ll have to learn to work with it. An author friend of mine informed me she uses it as a tool to help with writers block. She will ask for three ideas on how to move her story forward. Some she uses as an idea joggers to create additional thoughts.

[@AstarTiamat]

I've done that too. Completely rewrite it in the end but helps keep away blank pages with something related

[@miketemple7686]

@@AstarTiamatagreed. It can act as a quasi sounding board. It’s still your story and your ideas. 💡

[@joevaldez6457]

I've queried Google Gemini with questions and all three of its responses are so unhelpful it helped me figure out a fourth option on my own. Writers have done this for generations by throwing out ideas at their spouse, writing instructor, agent, editor, writing friends or dog and no one had a problem with it.

[@ChelissaMoon]

@@miketemple7686 yes! It helps me brainstorm and think. I’d freeze and stop writing sometimes if it wasn’t there. I rarely use what it gives me. It’s a great pattern interrupter and helps me keep momentum.

[@jenk2842]

Well said - you are absolutely right that the writer community has been in an uproar of late and I can't say that I don't agree with the criticisms, I just felt like it had swelled to a mob mentality around the issue. It bothers me when the community I love, pivots to vilify something rather than take a step back and objectively look at a situation as you have here. Much gratitude for posting!!

[@5Gburn]

@@jenk2842 I got off Twt for that reason. Factionalization plus crabs in a bucket. Worst combo ever.

[@angie-tq4ew]

I've wanted to write since childhood. I've wanted to have a formal education in writing. But, real life got in the way.. I'm older now, and I am now struggling through my first novel. I "say" struggle because it's frustrating not remembering all rules of writing, such as punctuation, grammar, and such. I've always read a lot, so that helps, but it doesn't solve my problems. It has now been years since I started my first novel because I had to slowly learn or relearn what I needed. I wanted to try this thing called AI and did. I found it more baffling than my own struggles. It seemed to want to take away the voice of my characters and to take away my own voice as an author. I turned it off and never used it or will use it again. I haven't had my book edited yet because I'm still doing my own editing. And I'll deal with needing an outside editor when the time comes. I just hope that when the time comes, my editor(s) won't be relying on AI themselves. But that's a struggle for another day. Thanks for sharing about nanowrimo. I've wanted to try my hand at it, but figured, why bring on more struggles for myself. Im glad, now, that I stayed away. By the way, I've always known that the struggle makes you stronger. So I say - bring it on!

[@grimmdanny]

Paying to use an AI is still paying humans for the service of using the AI, the people who built it, maintain it, and host it.

[@thekeywitness]

As a professional writer/editor, I’ve found that AI is extremely useful to streamline my process, but it isn’t a replacement for creativity.

[@christianknickerbocker604]

I'm extremely ignorant but my uncle who works as an ai tester says that the stories it writes are absolute crappolla and not a real threat. Hopefully it stays that way.

[@MrRosebeing]

Who is defending the fight against AI, are you or am I? I don't know, there's no robot army behind me. Me then.

[@lindenstromberg6859]

I feel like these people getting upset about how to go about a using a hobby tool is characteristic of Internet contrarian hyperbole. Also, I'm willing to bet it's a small percentage or fraction of a percentage of people that care, amplified by the Internet. The fact that the harassment campaign against the board members actually worked in getting them to say "I don't have time for this ****" and quit is (frankly) gross.

[@kimlauder6899]

Thank you I loved this video ❤

[@Justafox305]

Question; let’s say I wrote a novel on my own but I needed to erase thousands of words to cut the word count down. Can I use AI as a prompt to erase words. Keep in mind that when you ask it to erase thousands of words, it sometimes changes some words around. Is that allowed?

[@ChelissaMoon]

@@Justafox305 I would ask it to suggest and mark where it should remove, instead of allowing it to do so. I would also have it explain why. On the paid version of GPT, you can upload documents, so you can also have it reference the page number so you can determine for yourself if you agree.

[@Justafox305]

@@ChelissaMoon thanks so much for the tip

[@ChelissaMoon]

@@Justafox305 you’re welcome! Hope it works well!

[@gabrielonyango5876]

Who has the moral authority to decide if that is allowed or not? And who gave it to them?

[@pif4347]

Everything comes down to the quality of the finished product. Not using AI is now a handicap that will leave you in the dust.

[@johnswoodgadgets9819]

This is just another example of why I hate the writing business. I am not entirely sure writing was ever supposed to be a business. It is kind of like being in the 'walking business'. Fundamentally, walking is a means to an end, other than walking itself. One may enjoy walking, and some may actually be better at it than others, and at the end of the walk is a destination. One could argue the destination is all that truly counts. But the destination is the culmination of the walk itself. No matter how you cut it, taking a cab instead is not the same thing. It does not entail the same experience, and the destination experience will inevitably reflect that difference. Regardless of efficiency or expedience, taking a cab is not a walk. Fin. Fin of what, exactly? Writing is not the only profession doomed to die of self-inflicted wounds. There is little comfort, but at least some sympathy in that melancholy fact. Write for other reasons.

[@jonathanfesmiresteampunkau6983]

I'm stunned that this AI thing is what's doing it rather than 2023 NaNoWriMo moderator child grooming controversy. Really, writers? You're upset that NaNo said if people want to use AI that's Okay (as if they could track this or stop it), but not about a moderator allowed to stay on when they were being inappropriate with minors? Hell, if someone wants to use AI to complete NaNoWriMo, what does it hurt anyone else? Just write your books (away from NaNo, preferably) and don't worry about what other people are doing. AI writes terrible fiction, anyway. I just feel that people are getting worked up about the wrong thing.

[@CharlesHuss]

I use grammarly but the only time I use AI like ChatGPT is for research. For one of my books I needed to know information like how the Milwaukee Police Department was structured and the process for choosing who gets a donor organ. It was very helpful there but for another book I wanted to know the approximate weight of a certain sized meteorite but its answer was ridiculously low.

[@tayh.6235]

I mean this genuinely, but why did you need GPT for that? Why not simply look up the Milwaukee police on a search engine or search for "organ donation process"?

[@First_and_skol]

There is a fundamental difference between using writing software such as Atticus or Scrivener to help arrange and format your typed text and using ChatGPT to spit out a 50,000 word novel in ten minutes. But that argument is more ethical than it is practical. Basically, if a writer (no matter how able or what class they exist in currently) chooses to press an "easy button" to have a computer write for them, and then turn around and proclaim their success in NaNoWriMo, then they aren't "cheating" according to administrators. I agree, even though I do not use AI to write my text, and never will. It defeats the purpose in my eyes. If someone wishes to press an easy button and pass off a novel written by their computer in 10 minutes as their own, it isn't the business of other writers who spend hundreds of hours creating their own novel to tell them they've cheated. Those easy button writers know themselves that they haven't created the novel by use of their imagination alone, which is more "punishment" than anyone else could ever levy upon them externally.

[@thuroria7631]

To me, the main issue with using AI to write is that everything written by AI is garbage. And you can also spot AI-written junk from a mile away. So many news posts are clearly AI-written nowadays, and it's absolutely awful to read. I am totally fine with people using AI to write for them, because it'll just be junk and if they're happy to produce junk, then let them. I don't really see the issue. More than that, this talk of "ableism" really annoys me. Some people are just so entitled.

[@fionacreates]

One of the sponsors is an AI writing tool. It would feel like an honest mistake if they actually thought they were helping, albeit clumsily, but they’re using minorities as a shield for their sponsor to make money, and THAT is the true issue.

[@johndescy7904]

Well, if you want to use AI to write an entire novel, just do so. Then read it and find out what garbage you got. I'm unbothered.

[@AnaGuillenBachs]

We are on the verge of what could be humanity's greatest revolution, much more powerful than the industrial revolution. We still don't know how to regulate it yet (like when children worked in factories every day of the week). I remain expectant (but always on the side of the workers and the fight for decent work/creativity).

[@Outrider74]

No. Just… No. I’d rather not write than use AI. Yes, that may slow me down. Yes, that may mean my words may not be so smoothly polished. But what I write are MY words with MY thought process. As far as “classist/ableist,” those are buzzwords used by armchair activists to sound more intellectual and profound than they actually are. Inequalities exist; I don’t have equal access to being a professional athlete. That’s life. Not everybody gets a trophy in the same area: find an area you can excel in rather than whine about an area you cannot.

[@yogeybogeybear3542]

I feel like creatives have really dropped the AI ball…. Most arguments they make against it revolve around theft. Which is dumb, because say, Disney would be more than capable of using its own content to train its AI model. While not enough focus is placed upon AI training itself upon AI content; in an infinite slop trough… probably because much of writing now feeds into that same slop trough.

[@krispstalkrew]

I agree that they should be specific in defining the 'use of AI' for writing. On a side note, AI isn't going anywhere and may soon become a household name that a lot people can't live without. Maybe the face of Nanowrimo is changing? Perhaps it is evolving into something other than a writing challenge? Possibly they may attract more authors who do use AI to do all the writing for them? However, I've heard that AI isn't perfect yet and any story that AI comes up with may need a lot of editing anyway (that only a real human being may be able to fix). Or, because of the controversy, Nanowrimo may soon finally layout what use of AI is allowed and what is not allowed. Or, this could spark the rise of a new writing challenge month by some group/person/organization. Regardless, I believe everything will work out for everyone involved.

[@time-lapseseb1141]

I used to think, that AI will be an awesome tool for scientific research, repetitive tasks and that it might teach us humans something new. Never thought, that creative jobs, like grafic designers, architects, writers and fine art will be at risk. ... yet, those are the ones, who get shaken and stired. I myself can be lucky for now, since I'm no longer a freelancer, but am employed at a museum as a taxidermist. But one of my favorite topics is paleoart, sculpting excinct animals in close collaboration with scientists, and even these branches get more and more infiltrated by AI and enablers. In my free time, I like to draw and write and I'm sadened to see, that also the people, who do these things professionaly are Challenge by unskilled and lazy AI users.

[@jeffryglenn7024]

If readers don't care about the crap they read... and writers don't care about the crap they write... AI is a marriage made in heaven!

[@hobbyistfairy1712]

As someone who has a mental disorder herself i find it condescending to say not wanting AI in the writing room is abelist or classist first off for as long as i been in special ed i do not want to use AI in my writing despite going to special ed classes i can write storys, poems thank you very much

[@tobiass3540]

I mean, I don't think AI isn't really good enough to write a novel on it's own. I think, using AI tools to help you edit or brainstorm. I wouldn't want AI to write my book, but I'll gladly use it for the editing process for example. I think it makes it easier for people to write the story that they have in their head. Ai tools can make it easier, so why not? I think it does make it more accessible and I do think that writers might be able to produce more output which might make it easier for them to actually make a living out of it. I don't think, that's a bad thing. There are free tools, to check if something is completely written by AI. That would be fraud to me, if you publish something you have not written yourself. But using AI tools is like using Microsoft word for spell checking. No one complains about that, right?

[@rowan7929]

I use prowritingaid for spell check and grammar. Every now and then for sentence structure if one is really bad and can't think a way around it. Besides, several agents do ask if AI is being used.

[@joevaldez6457]

I've encountered that, with two or three agents out of 100 in my submission process asking Y/N to using AI on their QueryManager. That's kind of like asking football players if they've ever smoked weed. As a coach, I think I'd be more worried about the athletes morally opposed to it than those who'd tried it.

[@rowan7929]

@@joevaldez6457 Yeah, it is a bit surprising, but at the same time kind of a fair question to see if you put effort into your work. Since AI can do so much now, that you can sit back and just let it do it for you.

[@SzaboB33]

AI is great for inspiration (especially for names) and grammar checks but horrible for coming up with decent plots.

[@katcooperwrites]

I've seen a lot of people preparing to do alternate challenges in November, or do the 50k in a month that works better for them. The MLs for my region have also stepped down from their roles. It's a crazy situation to be in rn.

[@DanaJudyex]

this video format suits me a lot