Am I Going Overboard with This Deck Replacement?! - E012

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This week we go over some things that I learned after my first experience glueing some foam into the bow of this boat. Stick around for a few other projects around the shop as we get some foam prepared for the bow core.
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Recommended Playlists:
Watch our journey from the very beginning!
• Restoring the Antidote.
Recommended playlist for other AWESOME boat refits:
• I QUIT! … to fix up an...
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[@magiccarpet3.5]

Foam was way to tight fit after running through planer etc. A big gap is your friend here. Slightly thicker than mayonnaise bog in first, then push in lower sheet of foam and get heaps of squeeze out. Use squeeze out to push back into gap above lower sheet. Push next piece of foam in. Again heaps of squeeze out. Top stubb of glass will flex up. Place batten on top top of glass stubb to straighten it and get more squeeze out which can be reused. Cut foam into six to eight inch pieces similar to brickwork. Dont worry about inside edge where you will be putting the rest of the deck core. This edge can be cut straight after the void is filled so the rest of the foam can butt up to the clean edge. No need to overlap or stagger the join in the core materials butt joins are fine. Look at the balsa attached to scrim, a million butt joins!! You need big gaps for this to work. Tight fitting foam is no good. You need gaps for the squeeze out like mortar lines in bricks. Its messy just like laying bricks, lots of gloves required. Afterthought, paint epoxy into void covering all surfaces before using mayonnaise mix. Work wet on wet and keep working down as far as you can go. This saves prepping in the void again after you finish. I would not lay large sheets of core as commonly seen in videos. I would lay thinner strips, say two inches wide to avoid voids under the core. Again perforated and grid scored infusion foam is best. Even if just pushed into mayonnaise mix manually the perforated grid scored foam allows air pockets to vent and squeeze out to come through the foam everywhere. If using epoxy i would do the work in sections that i can reach easily and laminate the core after i clean up the squeeze out. Secondary bonding to epoxy wetted foam is a bitch. With perforated foam you can do larger sheets. Again leave gaps between sheets and push together to get squeeze out between sheets. Clean up squeeze out and hot coat foam, wait half hour for hot coat to gel and laminate. Stop an inch short of foam edge with glass but peel ply over the edge. When you remove peel ply to continue you have no glass edge to clean up! Cheers

[@livingforsail]

Good stuff here. Thanks! 🙏 I will aim for bigger gaps with more squeeze out in the future

[@jeanrobillard8630]

I was the PR guy that managed the launching of that beer in the early '90. Glad that you appreciate it. The producing company is now owned by Saporo (Japan). And I will sure vote for you!

[@livingforsail]

Oh man. That would have been a REALLY great job! I am a big fan of all of their stuff. Thanks for the support! 🙏👍🙌

[@Alaxon]

Like the project, like the project owner, good videos with some novel content … BUT … 10+ episodes just on the bow? Going to be a long grind.

[@livingforsail]

This is exactly what my wife keeps saying… 🤣

[@liongod1000]

@@livingforsail *_ Then again, Perfection is never Rushed! _*

[@livingforsail]

@@liongod1000 🙏

[@Alans-channel]

I know a few ppl that never finished things because of "being a perfectionist" 🤷🏻‍♂️ whilst obviously others have blast cruising around the world with a project boat. The truth should be somewhere in the middle

[@tarivard]

It's obvious when an engineer refits a boat. nuf said!

[@livingforsail]

I’ll take that as a compliment 😉👍

[@magiccarpet3.5]

Man thats a lot of template work to create air voids. Do strips mate, big sheets make voids by trapping air. By the time you made the templates you could hve stripped foam into bog on the deck and be finished. Vacuum wont get rid of voids unless you can bleed the air out. In fact as you squash the sheet down with vacuum yo might actually increase the area of the voids by squashing the air flat. Also air compresses so after you release the vacuum the air can expand deleminating larger areas. Stripping is easy with mayonnaise to peanut butter consistency bog. Precut your strips on the table saw and and have a knife handy to cut strips to length as you go. Keep recycling your squeeze out. Think teak deck size strips and techniques. Of course infusion sorts all these problems.

[@livingforsail]

Thanks for the tip. I appreciate what you mean. I was following advice from the manufacturer. I can see how air pockets would be more of an issue with larger pieces… I was hoping that the vacuum was able to pull them through the perfs in the foam…

[@Beaker11185]

Enjoying the videos and project. In my experience using thickened epoxy...it's great at gap filling and having a gap is preferred. Tight panels, like you would create in fine woodworking, causes problems where they do not need to be. A side benefit is the fit-up and work flow goes faster with less exacting precision. Thumbs up

[@livingforsail]

Thank you 🙏. I think your input is spot on. You do want some room for the epoxy to setup and Craftsman level wood work joints are probably not the way to go here. At least not when you balance time/energy. Cheers! 🙏👍🙌

[@mikewohlstein1162]

Two things from my experience doing the exact same thing. I would put in the thickened epoxy (THICK is the operative word) putty with the tube gun against the inside of the bullwarks , slide in the prepared foam around the edge and drill some holes in the existing lip and fill with the putty gun. Leave a few vents to let the air out. Clamping down the edge makes sense. Vacuum bagging those areas does nothing for structural strength. Second, go buy a hand planer with carbide blades, makes it much easier to bevel the glass lip edge more uniformly and is much neater too. Best of luck. And yes, I am a mechanical engineer as well. We always try to make things the most difficult way.🤣

[@livingforsail]

I am intrigued by the idea to use the hand planer… I imagine I’ll go through some blades but yes, that could give a really good surface for that type of repair… 🤔 I’m not so much looking for improved strength with the vacuum bag but more interested in getting a better shape since I can essentially have 15k lb of clamping force on a 1sq yd part without having to go insane bracing the wobbly bottom skin. I figure if I can support it in generally the correct shape the bag will take care of the rest. It’s also fun to try something new! 🙏👍🙌

[@mikewohlstein1162]

Try out the planner. Go to Harbor freight. It will make quick work of the edge. I had a friend who dropped a fuel tank out of the bottom of his trauler by using a skill saw. He feathered the blank and the hull hole in short order, @@livingforsail

[@tvelocidad]

I have to echo Alaxon's comment... I like the project, the project owner, good quality videos... but it's always a big bummer when you tune in to a new episode only to find out that there hasn't been much progress.

[@livingforsail]

Ok. Thanks for sharing. 🙏

[@Rm6.23]

Love how you stowed away the folding work table 👍

[@livingforsail]

It is a huge help and a necessity in my relatively small space. 👍

[@martyb3783]

Great video as always. Your attention to detail is amazing.

[@livingforsail]

Thank you Marty! 🙏👍🙌

[@andrewmoylan6295]

Good to see things moving forwards John, Good choices of deck materials too. Keep chipping at it mate

[@livingforsail]

Thanks Andrew! Much appreciated 🙏

[@andrewmoylan6295]

@livingforsail So much involved for your project, mate, fantastic you're getting on top of it ..bravo

[@Ready4pressure]

Ya must have cashed out a buncha bitcoin lol good on ya. Very thorough. Must unhalf assed uncheap refit I have ever seen it's crazy watching just to see what someone with all the money in the world would do to torture himself. Perfection! Good on ya.

[@livingforsail]

Not exactly… haha.

[@marcushatch5863]

Excess epoxy, should have a fair amount of squeeze out. Looking good, I think the epoxy injection helped and wouldn’t worry too much at this point. It’s core, get it sealed and you are good to go.

[@livingforsail]

Thanks for the input! 🙏👍

[@jakenuckolls9316]

Voted and voted. Great work brother... and welding? Dang... man of many talents.

[@livingforsail]

Thanks Jake! 🙏🙏

[@robertbryant6939]

A couple of things I haven't seen in the comments: 1) I disagree with the assertion that you should remove the glass all the way to and/or up the bulwarks. It is far easier working (specifically fairing after the glass work is completed) flat than up the vertical surface, and it would be even better yet, if you didn't need to get into the radius at the turn of the deck/bulwark. 2) When mixed for the purpose with the correct material and amount, thickened epoxy doesn't thin as it cures. This is my first episode so I'm not sure what or how much you used, but you simply didn't use enough fumed silica. The one exception I've experienced was having the tubes of pre-thickened epoxy (stuff I didn't mix or test) slump after application. 3) totally my own prejudice here - but you don't need to put peel ply over every little spot of epoxy. Although this is completely anecdotal - and subjective - it's easier to just hit those spots for a second with a grinder - amine blush isn't much of a consideration for such things and as you're no doubt discovering/already know- you're going to have plenty of spots to smooth out anyways, so will be spending lots of time behind one.

[@livingforsail]

Thanks for the feedback. My Interpretation of the concept behind #1 would be to extend all layers of glass to the top of the bulwark and dead end them all at that top corner before covering with the bulwark. I don’t mind the idea of adding additional strength to the bulwark… For #2 I think you’re correct that more silica was called for. The epoxy viscosity does decrease as temps go up though. That’s a fact but maybe less of an issue as more silica is added? Thanks again for watching and offering your thoughts. Cheers! 🙏👍🙌

[@robertbryant6939]

I agree there isn't much harm to extending the glass up and capturing it with the caprail (if that's what you meant) - just more work and may not be needed. Not just a little more work - 4 times as much. As long as you're not doing that for the primary purpose of increasing the secondary bond area between the new deck glass and existing, because it isn't necessary. Also - not mentioned earlier - but standard operating procedures where I have experience - consist of prepping extant glass with 24 or 36 grit abrasive (flat) disc's on a 4.5 inch grinder. I don't really know if that much keying action is necessary - but I've tried using flapper wheels, sanding disc's and other things - the flat disc is the best IMHO. Just need to purchase the appropriate sized rubber backer for it to work. Regarding the fumed silica, though I can find no study to confirm my assertion, again I know it's only anecdote, I can't claim your mechanical engineering background - I'd maintain the assertion all the same. I regularly add fumed silica , primarily for fillers and the like, with up to 2x's by volume of the mixed epoxy much more causes different problems. With that much thixotrope, and as little epoxy is being usually employed- probably even in your case, heat build up should be minimal, which is the only thing I imagine acting to alter the viscosity. I allow I could be wrong - I've just not experienced it. I'm interested to hear your thoughts - thanks for mercy.

[@bdphourde]

I guess the foam is looking OK, but I am really partial to the shingled plywood squares randomly sprinkled over the deck and semi-adhered with a mastic of algae water and mold that you see some manufacturers using on boats, and then compressed into place by owners launching and retrieving their anchors. It's a hard combination to top. 😉

[@livingforsail]

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm?! 🤣

[@robertbryant6939]

:D

[@charlesprettyman1398]

In hindsight - and I would not have thought of this before seeing this episode, should you have drilled a few vent holes along the outside edge - the glooped a lot of epoxy in before shoving in the boards - think about the relief vents used when casting plaster or metal the air needs an escape route to avoid cavities.

[@livingforsail]

Yeah, I was thinking of possibly doing that as I continue. Cheers! 👍🙏

[@djmjr77]

I would have left the well adhered areas so the shape is held, cut out the other sections of glass, filled/fixed the areas and dropped some new glass on top.

[@livingforsail]

👍

[@haydenwatson7987]

I would not have tried to save the flange on the top side. My preference would be to cut the top glass off back to the bulwark and then lay in the foam with a good bedding of thickened epoxy and then lay on several tabbing layers over the foam and up onto the bulwark. Then build up the top lawyer of glass to the required depth with the cloth lapping up onto the bulwark with a slightly different height to the edge on each layer of cloth.

[@livingforsail]

It’s an interesting approach. I might have liked to even just add the 4-5 layers all the way up the bulwark to give that more strength without adding too much weight 🤔. I’ll think on that one.

[@haydenwatson7987]

@@livingforsail The way you are going about it is like draw an inside straight or picking up a split spare. It is always easier to keep your ducks in in a row than it is to allow them to be separated. Any more? 🤪

[@livingforsail]

@@haydenwatson7987 it’s the approach that was recommended by several experts but I think they would probably agree that a different approach could work well. 👍

[@robertscholz4486]

I liked that the beer was in with the essential items that you got ready before you started. I'm not quite sure why you are planning on vac-u-bagging this section. Is it really worth all of the extra work? You are on a relatively flat plane on the bow, and I've always seen the vac-u-bagging used on vertical surfaces where gravity is working against you. Just curious as to why you are adding this step -- adding a liberal amount of thickened epoxy and some weight over the H100 should be more than adequate for a solid bond. You have my vote!

[@livingforsail]

Haha. Glad that you noticed that. The vacuum bag is going to be a bit of extra work but I’m interested in the result if I can pull it off. Plus I don’t like to make things too easy on myself… “there has to be a harder way?!” Thank you for the vote! 🙏👍🙌

[@mikewohlstein1162]

I misspoke when I said hand planner. I meant an electric planner.

[@timrobinson1393]

I enjoy watching the progress, but from experience I wouldn’t drive yourself this crazy you’re never going to get the boat built.

[@livingforsail]

Thank you. Never is a long time… 😳

[@charlesmcdonald5465]

I dunno for a fact (so check) but a dry wall rasp may work great for fitting foam ? Looks fun really. After your finished with yours maybe I’ll do one lol

[@livingforsail]

That would probably work. This stuff works very easily with most tools that I have tried.

[@jackdbur]

Surfboard shapers rasp for the win.

[@livingforsail]

@@jackdbur good idea 👍

[@bendaves77]

Did you pay what the average price for this boat or did you get a really good deal on it??

[@livingforsail]

I bought it in Canadian dollars so it was 40% off.

[@bendaves77]

@livingforsail well then that's alright.. just know that the liberty 458s are worth a pretty penny and then you're having to do all this repair that's more than just a little elbow grease, some paint and maintenance

[@livingforsail]

@@bendaves77 I wanted to do the work on the restoration and the reasons for that are anything but economical… 😉

[@bendaves77]

How did the channels get selected for this competition?? It wasn't from viewers

[@livingforsail]

I don’t think that’s how it works.

[@bendaves77]

@livingforsail I'm just curious because there's alot of channels that are currently on major refits and they weren't listed

[@livingforsail]

@@bendaves77 it’s supposed to be refits “started or finished this year”… 🤷‍♂️

[@johngullotti]

I really appreciate your effort but you really need to start vacuum bagging.....

[@livingforsail]

Is today soon enough for you?! 🤷‍♂️

[@dan2304]

Cut the top skin all the way to bulwalk. Even remove the skin fron the inside of the bulwalk.

[@livingforsail]

It has been suggested. It’s an interesting idea… so I assume then that you would wrap all layers of the new top skin up the bulwark? 🤔

[@dan2304]

@@livingforsail Depends on how the bulwark is constructed. That way you know the construction and soundness of the bulwark and are able to ensure the integrity of the deck-hull seal. Chasing leaks is not fun. Rather than buy new hatches investigate refurbishing the old ones. It is time - money issue.

[@livingforsail]

@@dan2304 I'm going to think about it a bit more. The idea has some benefits for sure. For the hatches I was able to pick up new old stock hatches over the last year or so from various sources and now I have all new hatches with new glazing AND hinges that aren't worn out for less than the cost of the refurb.

[@dan2304]

@@livingforsail Cool, way to go. I too am an engineer but spent many years teaching high school. Similar story for the house i built. In the planning for a while and sourced lots at discounted prices. Get it done before your sixties, and keep going if you can. Life is too short and active life is even shorter; from a septuagenarian. Joints are the week point.

[@livingforsail]

@@dan2304 Thanks Dan!!!