Amazing Grace (1 of 3) The History and Theology of Calvinism

[@joshenderson315]

To this day this presentation is one of the most convincing arguments for Calvinism I've ever come across. This 3 part series is what I refer people to whenever they ask me why I became a Calvinist. Very well researched and presented, and of course, it's all true.

[@TheBenevolentDictatorship]

For a shorter presentation focused solely on scripture, check out “Arminianism DEBUNKED-Calvinism Affirmed.” Its a great presentation by John MacArthur on the fantastic channel which I recommend to everyone “Exegetical Apologetics.” His documentaries on the Catholic Church and Islam are the best ever made.

[@Stanzi18]

I was listening to a sermon by John Piper on Romans 9 when I first understood Calvinism. It was a very hard pill to swallow and God really humbled me through it. It took a lot of time going over chapter 9 to finally accept it and embrace it. The doctrines of Grace are so precious to me now and I'm so grateful to God for the understanding He's given me in this area.

[@Manatti06]

Is Calvinist a denomination!?

[@kakhangchungpanmei8205]

I agree

[@mariosangermano5709]

@@Manatti06 No. Calvinism is a system of expositing the scriptures accurately.

[@philhoward490]

I was hopelessly lost in sin and darkness . I couldn't pull myself from the pit of rage, drunkenness, hatred. He rescued me in moments. At the same time he rescued me from my sin he healed me of the affects of PTSD from when I was shot in a violent crime. He set me free! I couldn't free myself!Jesus did it!

[@marlonmorales8672]

5 years ago since a friend recommended me this video, and leads me to embrace reformed theology, away from prosperity gospel theology and now i'm part of a healthy local reformed baptist church here in the phils. To God be the glory!

[@reformedcatholic457]

This film led me on the path to Reformed theology! A brilliant film! Edit: I'm what I would call now Anglo-Lutheran holding to TU in tulip.

[@evanu6579]

Biblical Christianity Reformed theology isn’t biblical my friend. Compare all things with scripture. God bless.

[@reformedcatholic457]

@@evanu6579 And that is why I am Reformed it is closest to biblical Christianity, compared it with Scripture and it passes the test. Blessings.

[@evanu6579]

Biblical Christianity Jhn 12: 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. Could these have believed had they not been hardened?

[@reformedcatholic457]

@@evanu6579 No, they couldn't because a sinner who is a slave to sin John 5:34 cannot simply choose to be free, Christ needs to set them free John 8:36 Also, God grants sinners the gift of faith Phil 1:29, Acts 3:16, they will not believe if they have no faith.

[@evanu6579]

Biblical Christianity Being a slave to sin doesn’t mean that you can’t want freedom. I agree that they can’t free themselves. It’s a matter of simply acknowledging your enslavement and wanting freedom from it. The passages you cited don’t prove that man cannot do that. Yes faith is granted which means allowed. If God hardened some so that they couldn’t have faith in Christ then obviously those who were not hardened were allowed to have faith. That doesn’t mean those who were hardened (not granted), couldn’t believe if they weren’t hardened (which means they’d be granted). So could they have believed had they not been hardened (not allowed/granted)?

[@Michael_Chandler_Keaton]

Hands down greatest upload in the history of KZbin! Thanks, subscribed.

[@garyheaton3983]

There is nothing that more offends human pride than the great Bible truth that we are powerless to save ourselves or to contribute in any way towards our salvation as if God needed our help. Even the very faith required to be saved is given to us as a free gift by God not by works so no man may boast. We can only worship and wonder at God's amazing grace.

[@honephillips3840]

+Darcen Brandt yes it does, Gary. It does NOT say we should work so we can be saved it says we should work out (that is live on the basis of) our salvation. Note the rest of the verse "with fear and trembling, because it is GOD who is at work in us to will and to do of HIS good pleasure." The attitude this describes is wonder that such an undeserving wretch like each one of us can be saved - if God will it. And, since in the end the final result is dependent on him in spite of the fact that our best efforts are but filthy rags, failure to observe all that he has commanded us is not something any one of us wants to do. How dare we offer our filthy works as fit for his acceptance - and yet he does accept them. As Paul puts it, "Who can lay anything against the elect? It is GOD who justifies ..."

[@honephillips3840]

If the gift of salvation (or even of eternal life) has been given to everyone then everyone will be in heaven. Clearly that is not so ... so it has not been given to everyone. You do not seem to think through the experience of many who sat for years (sometimes) in churches and heard the gospel as rubbish. What made them change their minds? According to John it is that they were born of the spirit of God. This is what happens (according to John which allows those to whom Jesus came to accept him while the rest of his own rejected him.

[@SpotterVideo]

Does God command all men to "repent", and then God keeps some men from doing so? Mat_3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mat_4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mar_1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. Mar_6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent. Luk_13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Luk_13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Luk_16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. Luk_17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. Luk_17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him. Act_2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Act_3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; Act_8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. Act_17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Act_26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. 2Co_7:8 For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season. Heb_7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:) Rev_2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. Rev_2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. Rev_2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Rev_2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. Rev_3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Rev_3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. .

[@lindajohnson4204]

*Bartimaeus* by John Newton Mercy, O thou Son of David! Thus blind Bartimaeus prayed; Others by thy word are saved, Now to me afford thine aid: Many for his crying chid him, But he called the louder still; Till the gracious Saviour bid him Come, and ask me what you will. Money was not what he wanted, Though by begging used to live; But he asked, and Jesus granted Alms, which none but he could give: Lord remove this grievous blindness, Let my eyes behold the day; Strait he saw, and won by kindness, Followed Jesus in the way. O! methinks I hear him praising, Publishing to all around; *Friends, is not my case amazing?* *What a Saviour* I have found: *O! that **_all_** the blind but knew him,* And would be advised by me! Surely, would they hasten to him, *He would cause them ALL to see.*

[@MrMickey2000]

I will acknowledge man's free will this far, man is free to choose how to sin, but is wholly incapable of choosing the saving work of Jesus Christ.

[@normanpelley]

well said! I agree 100%

[@kimberleerivera7062]

So because I hate this evil world - I did not do that on my own?

[@buick107]

@@kimberleerivera7062 Peruse Pastor Arnold's messages instead of this Calvinist nonsense. Something will interest. May God richly bless you! kzbin.info

[@kimberleerivera7062]

@@buick107 - Thank you very kindly. I have listened to a few sermon messages by Ralph Yankee Arnold, and they were great! I'm not a Calvinist, - and Calvinist's also -- as Ralph Yankee Arnold does - believe in "once save always saved." I believe we are saved, (justified), are being saved (sanctified), and will be saved (glorified.) Paul tells us to finish the race. I believe JESUS CHRIST is the elect as the Bible tells us, and we are elect if we are in CHRIST. I also believe that there will be a falling away as the Bible tells us in *2 Thessalonians 2:3 - (Who is falling away? Believers?) I am studying and praying to GOD to reveal HIS truth to me. I happen to love how John MacArthur preaches JESUS CHRIST and yet I don't agree with Calvinist views on several issues, like pre-tribulation either. I think Ralph Yankee Arnold is a pre-tribulation believer too? In any case - I am sure Calvinists are our brothers and sisters in CHRIST. Unlike pastor Arnold - I do believe in repentance - JESUS CHRIST died - why? To free us from sin.

[@buick107]

@@kimberleerivera7062 This link is to a channel I've found worthwhile. No video found so far just audio...so It's ideal for commutes. So many topics, you WILL find something of interest. May Jesus always be your light. kzbin.info/www/bejne/aHzPk6OFbtmbedE

[@Ogram1000]

I do have a question(s) for the calvinist in here...IF we are Dead that means we can see or hear....IF Adam and Woman cause the 'fall' of mankind> WHY WERE their eyes opened?....And if we are dead and dead people can't hear...then why preach the word...IT would just fall on deaf dead ears?

[@misternewoutlook5437]

This a fascinating program. No matter if your denomination is founded on Neo-Arianism or Calvinism, you still have to appreciate the clear understanding of the history of Protestantism and subsequent events after the Reformation and how we got to where we are today. It maybe too heavy a subject for some Christians, but I think one that is very well worth learning.

[@scottchi666]

man it seems can not accept God makes choices. no true Christian chooses God, God chooses people. as in His selection of the Jews, His selection of Jacob, His selection of Paul, etc. He chose 12 disciples and one of them was a devil. He chose me. I did not seek Him (although I do now), initially He chose me. John 9:12 KJVS Then said they unto him, Where is he? He said, I know not. like this blind man made whole, I do not know where he is either. all I know is I was blind and now I can see

[@kimberleerivera7062]

We can all see because the veil was torn when CHRIST died on that cross as the propitiation for sin. We were grafted in - all those who will believe on the LORD JESUS CHRIST - that HE died and was buried and rose again on the third day as it is written. We were chosen as in that we - Gentiles were grafted in. JESUS CHRIST is the elect, and all who are in CHRIST are elect. GOD chose the Apostles and others but the rest HE called. It's up to man to answer that call.

[@WasLostButNowAmFound]

@@kimberleerivera7062 wrong.

[@theTavis01]

you claim "I did not seek Him" so what was your conversion experience like? You just woke up one day and realized you mysteriously believed in Jesus when the day before you couldn't care less, without a *_SINGLE_* causal factor whatsoever??? That must be an *_INCREDIBLE_* testimony.

[@MrSamadolfo]

Amazing that such an important topic is almost never ever discussed among modern era church going christians. Everyone simply 'assumes' that your responsible for your own salvation. Besides this video you can also followup by looking up Calvinist Bible Commentaries such as: Geneva Bible Notes, Poole, Gill, & Mathew Henry. And for bibles you have the Geneva & the KJV. Cheers =D

[@theTavis01]

It's not discussed because it's not in the Bible, but the Bible does explicitly condemn divisive factions that identify themselves with human teachers. "What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Calvin”; another, “I follow Wesley”; another, “I follow Arminius”; still another, “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Calvin crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Calvin?"

[@MrSamadolfo]

@@theTavis01 🙂 I follow my fellow Calvinists and I am not ashamed to admit it. I will always be a Calvinist till the day I die. AMEN.

[@kevinhughes3477]

you're*

[@youdontsay2181]

jcr4runner Thx..,what a blessing!!!!!! 👍☝️👏👏🤝

[@unclejohn595]

This is a great lesson on Calvinism

[@evanu6579]

unclejohn595 It’s not biblical though

[@mariosangermano5709]

@@evanu6579 LOL. You apparently had the volume off.

[@evanu6579]

@@mariosangermano5709 I don’t judge what’s biblical by what some person claims. I judge it by what the bible actually says. Compare what the video claims with what the bible says and you’ll see what I mean.

[@BrotherJohn2000]

an excellent documentary. I can't wait to take the rest of it in.

[@BarryIckes]

Calvinism or Augustinianism IS the very truth of the Bible, Augustine & Calvin taught it, but NOT they alone, it IS the teaching of the Bible!

[@prohorizon1853]

Well Said!!!

[@prohorizon1853]

Nick sem _" Men are inferior to Jesus. His plan of salvation is not the plan of Calvinism "_ LOL! That's funny!! Calvinism's essential foundation is that man is utterly incapable fo contributing to his salvation. Rather, it is left solely to the Sovereign work of GOD by Grace and Mercy, human effort has not part in it. Therefore, your comment about man's inferiority to Jesus is central to the Sovereign GOD's "plan of salvation" which is precisely the "plan of Salvation" Calvin taught and espoused. You've obviously never studied Calvinism and it's basic tenants.

[@2far2quit49]

Wouldn't that leave God in particular dilemma during Judgment day?Sinners asks why have you forsaken me? God says because I did not choose you. Calvinist God is not of the Bible BTW I dont care what Cavins plan for salvation is but Jesus's

[@wtom04]

John Calvin was a MERE MAN who was heavily influenced by the heretical teachings of another MERE MAN, namely Augustine of Hippo. Augustine was a replacement theologian who spiritualized various Biblical concepts by ascribing other meanings to them to fit them into his own frame of reference. He read "his theology" into the text perverting Scripture. What is John Calvin, what is Jacobus Arminius, and what is Augustine?? These are nothing, but MERE MEN who have invented FALSE DOCTRINE! Colossians 2:8 - Beware lest any man spoil you through PHILOSOPHY AND VAIN DECEIT, after the TRADITION OF MEN, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

[@TroddinSod]

wtom04 _"These are nothing, but MERE MEN who have invented FALSE DOCTRINE!"_ Nothing Calvin or Augustine taught were the product of their own invention. As the author of this thread has stated: _"Calvinism or Augustinianism IS the very truth of the Bible, Augustine & Calvin taught it, but NOT they alone, it IS the teaching of the Bible!"_ The whole point of this thread was to point out that Augustine and Calvin clearly *_"taught"_* what the Bible teaches, not their own inventions or doctrines of men. It's your job to prove otherwise, not merely saying it. That's called; "begging the question", which essentially means your making a fallacy argument based on a presumption you haven't proven to be true. In other words, you haven't demonstrated Calvin taught his own invention, therefore, you can't make the claim due to the fact he was a "MERE MAN", or, that he was "heavily influenced by the heretical teachings of another "MERE MAN", that he "read his theology into the text". In fact, here's a quote from Calvin's commentary on Colossians 2:8, tell me if you disagree with what he says: . _"Or should any one prefer to have it expressed in one word, philosophy is nothing else than a persuasive speech, which insinuates itself into the minds of men by elegant and plausible arguments. Of such a nature, I acknowledge, will all the subtleties of philosophers be, if they are inclined to add anything of their own to the pure word of God. Hence _ philosophy will be nothing else than a corruption of spiritual doctrine, if it is mixed up with Christ......."_ _" According to the tradition of men. He points out more precisely what kind of philosophy he reproves, and at the same time convicts it of vanity on a twofold account; because it is not according to Christ, but according to the inclinations of men; and because it consists in the elements of the world. Observe, however, that he places Christ in opposition to the elements of the world, equally as to the tradition of men, by which he intimates, that whatever is hatched in man's brain is not in accordance with Christ, who has been appointed us by the Father as our sole Teacher, that he might retain us in the simplicity of his gospel. Now, that is corrupted by even a small portion of the leaven of human traditions. He intimates also, that all doctrines are foreign to Christ that make the worship of God, which we know to be spiritual, according to Christ's rule, to consist in the elements of the world, and also such as fetter the minds of men by such trifles and frivolities, while Christ calls us directly to himself."_ Sounds like he has finds men adding their own ideas to the Text just as repugnant as you do. So, what part of Calvin's teaching is his added own words, which he's always taught should never be done, as seen here?

[@charleespurg1410]

Who says Calvinist do not believe in free will? People choose to sin willingly. You can choose what to wear, eat etc.. But no man will choose God unless The Father draws him/her in.. Don't assume hypercalvinism is true calvinism .

[@evanu6579]

Charlee Spurg Jhn 12: 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. Could these have believed had they not been hardened?

[@l-jo911]

thank you for uploading! sharing everywhere

[@MrJSettecase]

I have never experienced a more encouraging, respectful and relentlessly biblical comment section on any KZbin video!

[@MK-qu6xs]

This is not an academic presentation, but that may be due to the video format. I'd just like to comment on the poor citations and lack of historical theological engagement used in this video series. More often than not, the principal works are not directly cited. With St. Augustine and Jacobus Arminius, no direct citation was given. Where does St. Augustine appear to promulgate proto-Reformed doctrines? The lack of historical-theological rigor is clearly seen. The given definition of Calvinism is more or less a kind of theological reductionism, limiting Calvinism to just five points. Had the series focused upon a Confessional exposition of "Calvinism" they would find that there is much more than five points to believe if one wishes to be considered Reformed.

[@JohnO318]

Thank you for posting this important historical video.

[@MariusVanWoerden]

Calvin NEVER preached Double predestination. Here is how Calvin preached the Gospel. I like the puritans who were Calvinist, Like Thomas Boston, Erskine. Jonathan Edwards July 8, 1741 in Enfield, Connecticut. Also Spurgeon. Jonathan Edwards preached a Sermon: “ Sinners in the hands of an Agree God” Not one eye was dry in the church and it started the great Awakening. In the US. This is how Calvin preached the Gospel FREE OFFER OF THE GOSPEL (Calvin's Wisdom p119-120) He calls all men to himself, without a single exception, and gives Christ to all, that we may be illumined by him. When we pray, we ought, according to the rule of charity, to include all. God invites all indiscriminately to salvation through the Gospel, BUT THE INGRATITUDE OF THE WORLD IS THE REASON why this grace, which is equally offered to all, is enjoyed by few. Calvin died 27 May 1564 (aged 54) He did a phenomenal work with his complete Bible Commentaries in his time all that was available was portions and only explained Spiritually. Calvin never made up the 5 points. The Remonstrants made the Five Articles of Remonstrance. It was the theological propositions advanced in 1610 by followers of Jacobus Arminius who had died in 1609, and had been professor of Theology in Utrecht. Arminius opponent was Gomaris, also professor in Utrecht [NOT Calvin he died 60 years earlier] Gomaris followers were called the Contra remonstrants. At the synod of Dortdrecht 1618 the articles against the remonstrants were made. www.fivesolas.com/cal_arm.htm Although it was condensed from the works of Calvin including his Commentaries and the “Institutes” one of the main and important works of Calvin. Calvin after writing Commentaries on the whole Bible except Revelations could never have come to any other conclusion But. Matthew 20: 3 But he answered one of them and said, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14 Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. 15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?’ 16 So the last will be first, and the first last. FOR MANY ARE CALLED, BUT FEW CHOSEN.” Calvin’s writings mainly were a rejecting of the teachings of the Roman Catholic church. Special Salvation by works. Vs. Justification by Faith. The main thing for Calvin was to bring back the WORD as the center of worship and stop the vain liturgy. His main work “The Institutes” of the doctrine was about the work of the Holy Spirit in the Salvation of men against the false teachings of the R Catholic church. People speak about Calvin but know nothing about Calvin. He was Called by God to oppose the heresies of the Roman Catholic church. Arminianism under Cornherd [Arminius had Died] Were writing the 5 points against mostly Gomaris [Contra Remonstrants] On the international Synod of Dordrecht 1618-1619, 60 years after Calvin 5 pionts agains the remonstants were made. The 5 points of Calvin T.U.L.I.P are not from Calvin but from the Synod of Dordrecht. 60 year later. There was a controversy between Supra and Infra Labsariens [Fall of Men] about what was first in the eternal counsel of God, The Fall or the salvation trough Christ. Now there is no sequence in the thoughts of God. However Arminius came up with the Heresy that God’s plan of Salvation came after the fall. They argued if God already had a plan of Salvation before the fall God would be the Author of Sin. That was rejected at the Synod of Dort. Putting Calvin in this all is just simply wrong and shows ignorance. In Acts 13:48 we read, "And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed." Acts 16:14 tells us that Lydia was saved when, "... the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul." Romans 8:29-30 states, "For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." Ephesians 1:4-5,11 reads, "Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will ... also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will." Ephesians 2:8 says even our faith is a gift from God. In 2 Thessalonians 2:13, the apostle Paul tells his readers, "God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation." 2 Timothy 1:9 informs us that God "9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began," Occasionally someone will suggest that God's election is based on His foreknowledge of certain events. This argument suggests that God simply looks into the future to see who will believe, and He chooses those whom He sees choosing Him. Notice that 1 Peter 1:2 says the elect are chosen "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father," and Romans 8:29 says, "whom He foreknew, He also predestined." And if divine foreknowledge simply means God's knowledge of what will happen in advance, then these arguments may appear to have some weight behind them.

[@redsonnetmusic]

Acts 17:26-27 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.

[@joemarisolmeron8798]

But as many as received him. To them give he power to become the sons of God. ❤ John 1:12 Faith is God's and so as freewill was never of man but given by God and of under God's Will

[@michellecheriekjv4115]

Read v13 thou....When speaking of Being Born Again...."Which were Born, not of blood, ➡️ nor of the will of the flesh, ➡️ nor of the will of man ...but of God." John 1:13 this is exactly where God illuminated to me why l wasn't saved when l was younger. Then when l continued crying out He told me to plant myself in Romans 9 and not move until l could accept it. Took me a week. That's why it's not good to cherry pick verses out of context. 📖💥🌷

[@FundamentalistChristian]

How could anyone take Pelagius seriously? Everyone sins at one time or another. Many, many times. Unfortunately so. God's Grace can reverse that trend though and help us turn from many sins and no longer will to do them.

[@bigkev2084]

man is incapable of coming to Jesus Christ without God calling us, Some God calls and others God has hardened

[@wtom04]

"man is incapable of coming to Jesus Christ without God calling us, Some God calls and others God has hardened." What a blatant lie that your statement is. Jesus says in John 12:32 - And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL MEN unto me. Paul says in Romans 11:32 - For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them ALL.

[@wtom04]

The Satanic doctrine of Calvinism falsely teaches that man is incapable of coming to Christ, but Christ said in John 5:40 - And ye WILL NOT come to me, that ye might have life. The phrase, "ye will not" is a strong indication that man has free will.

[@rdftreeman]

wtom04 laughable

[@bigkev2084]

"No man can come to me except if the Father draws them"

[@wtom04]

kevin chagnot Your comment - "No man can come to me except if the Father draws them". John 12:32 - And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

[@arnelvillanueva654]

Amazing preaching man of God

[@miketouchstone111]

Is there a place I can buy this video?

[@jcr4runner]

mike TOUCHSTONE forerunner.com

[@soteriology1012]

Did you believe or did God believe for you? I have heard of vicarious atonement but I never heard of vicarious belief. What does the scripure mean when it declares concerning your spiritual gift, "The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets?" If you have a gift of giving does God suddenly take the money out of your wallet and put in in an envelope into the offering tray? Pentecostals in defending the gift of tongues have used this argument for years. In the Hymn Amazing Grace by John Newton the words in there "How precious did that grace appear the hour I first believed.' Was he giving glory to himself in declaring that "I first believed" Should he not have said God believed for me or in me?

[@rbmath]

Jesus does not pay your "fine", He pays your death sentence

[@Stanzi18]

The wages of sin is death. That's the fine.

[@jakesarms8996]

Good stuff - thanks for sharing this .

[@redsonnetmusic]

A question for Calvinists: Does Christ's resurrection have any salvific relevance for those whom you say God did not choose when he unconditionally elected?

[@christianstravels]

No, either you are saying that Jesus dies in vain for the unelect or that he did not die for them at all, if Jesus died for "everyone" including those who are going to hell then that diminishes the act of the crucifixion and resurrection (wasted blood).

[@redsonnetmusic]

Christian Lursen You have not proven that blood was wasted. Romans 10:9 proves His resurrection had salvific relevance because Paul calls the unsaved to believe it. Anything but Christ dying and rising for all makes Paul disingenuous.

[@christianstravels]

Red Sonnet Paul does not know who the elect are, we should urge all to believe. You have to go back to the Greek to see that the word "all" does not translate to what we perceive all to mean, "all" was referring to the fact that not only Jews can be saved but gentiles as well.

[@christianstravels]

Christian Lursen Also if you say that a "nonbeliever" is covered by the Blood of Jesus and he is sent to hell because of his unbelief than blood has been wasted because it had no effect. I am saying that Jesus does not cover nonbelievers with his blood, he does not die for them, for if he did than everyone on earth, past, present, future would go to heaven.

[@christianstravels]

Christian Lursen Lastly I would encourage you to read some books on reformed theology if you want more information. I would suggest the Westminster confession of faith with proof texts. If you decide that you don't agree with it and wanna stick with Arminianism than that's alright too, we are justified by Christ not our particulars on theology.

[@dangodaikazoku262]

I'm slowly shifting from Arminian theology to Calvinist/Reformed theology... But I'm still a bit hesitant. I don't know why, there's something 'off' about it :/ God has led me to the correct doctrine throughout my Christian walk, and all those times, I didn't have the same feeling as I do now with Calvinism. I don't know if that makes any sense... But what if Calvinism is wrong? And Calvinists are making God to be something He's not? Hmm. I don't know anymore >.

[@coryabouaf7713]

+Dango Daikazoku So do you believe in limited atonement, the L in TULIP of Calvinism? In other words, do you believe that Christ did or didn't pay for those who never accept Him?

[@davidodom9518]

+Dango Daikazoku Watch the entire documentary and see if it helps clear up what you consider to be 'off.'

[@rachray83]

judge Truth by the word not your feelings, if your Fallen, crooked from birth feelings determine truth your feelings are ultimate not God & what He says. Romans 9 addresses your feelings, the natural feeling of all fallen humanity is Not bent toward God being the determiner of every person's destiny but man. This is exactly the fallen human wisdom of the world, "It's your life, you choose, you determine your destiny" it's the equivalent of "You are God" Believe what ALL of Scripture says, your feelings be crushed.

[@SpotterVideo]

“Calvinistic Baptists” are Semi-Calvinists. Since the original Calvinists practiced infant baptism in place of circumcision (doctrine of the Judaisers), and claimed to get children into the Church through infant baptism, and drowned Anabaptists, no true "Baptist" can be a true "Calvinist". They would have to be a "semi-Calvinist" at best. The 1689 London Baptists attempted to correct the Westminster Confession of Faith's errors regarding baptism, but ignored many of the other errors in the document. Anybody who fails to discuss the baptism of the Holy Spirit, has failed to discuss the most important aspect of baptism. The most important thing about the word "baptism" in the New Testament has nothing to do with water. See Luke 3:16, and John 3:1-16, and 1 Corinthians 3:16, and Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27. The power to overcome sin is found in the Spirit, instead of in the water. Watch the KZbin video "New Covenant Baptism, 3:16". Any "Baptist" who claims to be a "Calvinist" has attempted to trim rotten fruit, without looking at the core where the seeds are located. John Calvin: Infant Baptism by Rev. Bryn MacPhail www.reformedtheology.ca/baptism.html The early Calvinists claimed to get their own children into the "election", through infant baptism. Most "Baptists" who claim to be "Calvinists" attempt to ignore this part of the history of "Calvinism". Much of this argument ignores the battle between Reformed Covenant Theology, which is about 400 years old, and Dispensational Theology, which is less than 200 years old. Both systems fall apart in Galatians chapter 3. Both systems require a person to ignore or twist the New Covenant scriptures. Nobody gets into the New Covenant without going through the process found in Ephesians 1:13.

[@buick107]

Dango, 1. You're right to question any new doctrine by the written word of God. 2. In order to justify their interpretation of "election" Calvinists teach that "faith" is the gift not "grace" in Eph 2:8. 3. The gift is not "faith" as Calvinists claim, but GRACE which is ETERNAL LIFE! Rom 6:23. AND..."...this LIFE IS IN HIS SON.". 1 JN 5:11 4. Our faith gives us access to God's grace, the grace that JUSTIFIES and SAVES! Rom 3:24, Titus 3:7 5. "By whom also WE HAVE ACCESS BY FAITH INTO THIS GRACE wherein we stand,..." Rom 5:2

[@redsonnetmusic]

Jesus died for all men without exception (Hebrews 2:9). Jesus poured out his blood for the likes of Judas Iscariot: Luke 22:20-21 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table."

[@yaasovbolanio748]

Glory to GOD

[@jayp722]

Amazing that people think a person, a sinner dead and blind to the things of God, somehow has the ability to choose God and salvation. Read your Bible people and quit making it say what you want it to say. You are not drowning in sin with Christ reaching out for you to grab his hand...you are already drowned and dead in sin ...laying at the bottom of the pool of water. Christ decides to either reach down and grab you by the scruff of your neck and save you or he doesn't.

[@robertfoertsch]

Praying For The Sovereign Will Of The Lord Jesus Christ...

[@honephillips3840]

+Turtle Philosopher Since God's will is sovereign and he has ordained that we should pray that "his will will be done on earth as it is in heaven," we pray that his will will be done on earth as it is in heaven. It is really very simple, we pray because we are commanded to - in the same was as we (who have been predestined to eternal life) strive to do his will because he has commanded us to.

[@freddiemercerful]

'Which gives the most glory to god god the medicine man or the miracle giver who brings back the dead' completely ignores the fact that god is the one that killed you in the first place or 'made you sick' depending on which view you take!

[@onetruefaith2091]

Jesus calls us to respond to the "free gift" of redemption by living out His two commandments of "Love" that fulfills the Law or 10 Commandments. What does "Love" consist of just words alone or is it an action??? Jesus in Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who DOES the will of my father who is in heaven". Then proceed to Matthew 7:24-27 where Jesus explains the difference between "Hearers and Doers". What does Catholic St. Paul state is the "greatest" in 1 Corinthians 13:13 ??? Does not say "faith" does it ??? How about in Galatians 5:6 "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but FAITH WORKING THROUGH LOVE". Last but not least, James 2:24 "You see that a man IS JUSTIFIED BY WORKS and NOT BY FAITH ALONE". Sola Fide is a false teaching that only serves the enemy of Jesus Christ and His ONE and ONLY Church: The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church

[@kvnboudreaux]

Augustine believed in baptismal regeneration as evidenced in The Confessions...but anyhow, I have a question. If monergism is true, and God simply chooses some people to regenerate and implant faith in them without their ability to deny that faith, and if 'God desires all men to be saved', what prevents God from accomplishing this work of salvation? Why doesn't God regenerate everybody and implant faith in everyone so everyone can be saved?

[@markdaniels1730]

***** *Because God wants to display His justice. He is glorified by displaying His Justice. You can't demonstrate your justice on sinners if there are none.* Is not the Cross sufficient for a display of Justice? Not that I subscribe to penal substitution myself, I am more a Christus Victor guy. But according to that frame of reference which all Calvinists share that becomes a legitimate question...

[@markdaniels1730]

***** The problem here is that if one believes a) that the Cross of Christ is sufficient to satisfy God's Justice, b) that God does not take pleasure in the destruction of sinners but desires them all to be saved, and c) that Monergism is true and Man has no Free Will in this matter, then Universalism would in fact be the only logical outcome. One of these 3 has to be false or Universalism logically follows. I am not a Universalist, but I am a Synergist and an Inclusivist. I believe that God will extend His grace and mercy to all those who have had or even now have a very imperfect knowledge of Him, in order that Revelation 7 may be fulfilled and there will be a great multitude of every nation, tribe and tongue in the Kingdom of Heaven. I believe the spirit of Ezekiel 18 and the whole Epistle of St. James support Synergism. And I believe that Jonah and James again, support Inclusivism.

[@markdaniels1730]

***** *Chrsitians alone make up every nation, tribe and tongue already here on earth, just place them in heaven and that revelation would come true.* Not really. There are and have been exactly zero Christians in the indigenous Pirahã tribe in my home country of Brazil. Their language is insanely difficult to learn, almost impossible to master, and the only missionary able to learn it was an American linguist named Daniel Everett who was so unsuccessful in his attempt to evangelize them that he ended up losing his faith. Not only that but there is a very long list of extinct tribes and nations who have already ceased to exist without ever having a single missionary find them. So unless some degree of Inclusivism is true then Revelation 7 can't be. *I agree these groups will include everyone from famous theologians to even the illiterate and maybe, it's a long stretch, but just maybe even a few Catholics too* Well, hopefully me and my family will be some of those lucky Catholics if you are right. LOL On the flip side, the Church teaches that no one is condemned to hell without _freely deciding_ to reject God and his love, so I believe many more than only a few Protestants will be in Heaven with me if I am right. *Unless by imperfect knowledge you mean Muslims and Jews who believe in God but deny His power. I've considered them all, but if you consider the bible in it's entirety the difference between the saved and unsaved seems very clear.* I was alluding to the passage in St. James where he talks about how Rahab, a pagan prostitute, was reckoned as righteous because of her collaboration with the Israelite spies. If a pagan prostitute can be considered righteous due to something so simple (I believe it wasn't simply the act itself, but rather her positive disposition towards God and His people that saved her) then I believe a Jew, Muslim or Buddhist, etc... who in a similar fashion has such a favorable disposition towards the things of God may also be saved. I've known many who for all I could tell seemed to display the fruits of the spirit better than a lot of Christians.

[@markdaniels1730]

***** *If you look at bible history, mainly the flood era, God had no problem wiping out entire cities and tribes for wickedness. I believe if God wanted His gospel preached in these places it would have happened, no doubt.* That is beside the point. The point is that Revelation 7 says there will be people from _every nation, tribe and tongue_, and since there have been whole nations and tribes who have become extinct before the advent of Christ, that passage in Revelation 7 can only be true if Inclusivism is also true and _at least some_ members of those tribes who did not receive the Gospel explicitly were in fact saved. *He wants all the salvation stuff to happen here on earth. He also said if even one righteous person existed in a wicked city he would not destroy it.* Again, this is contradicted by the Epistle of St. James (which is scripture, btw). It clearly teaches that Rahab, a pagan prostitute was considered righteous by her deeds. Also, I would point you to the Sheep and the Goats parable in St. Matthew chapter 25, where Christ reveals to the sheep that in treating the poor with kindness and compassion they were treating _Him_ with kindness and compassion. Moreover, those who are receiving this revelation are completely _surprised_ by this. They never knew they had accepted Christ in what they thought was simply their basic moral duty. *Why would someone with a favourable disposition towards God reject His awesome gospel?* One can't reject what one does not receive. And countless people have lived and died without receiving it.

[@JKmma911]

The church condemned semi-paganism at the council of orange, this isn't historically accurate and highly biased.

[@freibylogos]

Fully well explained Christianity, with all its profound implications, can only produce 2 results. Either you become a loyal Christian who deeply loves GOD and HIS Word with all of your being. Or you become an Woke Atheist and liberal humanist with a deep hate against for everything related to GOD and the Bible. There are no spaces for intermediate positions. Those are the exact opposite worldview points, but at the same time, the only genuine ones, the others are simply hypocrites and/or poorly knewn them.

[@Scripture-Man]

This video has made me stop being a Calvinist! Until today I have always considered myself Calvinist because I agree with all 5 points of TULIP and strongly disagree with Armenianism. However, according to this video, Calvinists hold some seriously controversial views which go beyond the 5 points of TULIP. They say you can be born again _before_ coming to faith? They say faith is _not_ necessary for salvation!? These views are totally wrong and so I guess I can no longer call myself a Calvinist Faith (expressed by works) is absolutely necessary for salvation, and being born again is the _result_ of having come to repentance, turned to Christ in faith, being baptised into Christ, and receiving His Holy Spirit. There are _no_ cases (in the Bible or otherwise) of someone being born again _prior_ to them coming to faith. Certainly there are times when it all happens in short succession, but the birth _never_ comes first. How can the Spirit give birth to a person _before_ He has even come into that person? I conclude that Calvinists such as Martin Luthor must not have been born again themselves, or they couldn't have been making these gross doctrinal errors about the new birth. Calvinism and Armenianism are both as bad as each other! They both have a lot of truths, but deny the truths of the other.

[@isharedaverse6464]

Read John 3 about the new birth and stop sounding ridiculous. "The wind blows". Read John 1:12-13 you realize they believe because they are born of God. 1 John 5 also suppports this. :Whoever is born of God, believes that Jesus Christ is the Son Of God.

[@verdevalley1966]

JOHN 17;-A CHAPTER FOR THE ONES GIVEN TO CHRIST-

[@TheBenevolentDictatorship]

For a shorter presentation focused solely on scripture, check out “Arminianism DEBUNKED-Calvinism Affirmed.” Its a great presentation by John MacArthur on the fantastic channel which I recommend to everyone “Exegetical Apologetics.” His documentaries on the Catholic Church and Islam are the best ever made. God bless

[@muletrack]

This is good stuff, unfortunately a little too detailed for the average church adult. I wish there were another version that would be appropriate for Adult, College, and Teen Sunday School lessons. We have so dumbed down the church in the past Century that sound doctrine cannot be comprehended. I attend a Baptist church and we've been going through Timothy George's series on the History of Christianity and it is so amazing how absolutely new this material is to the class -- people who have been strong in their churches their entire lives.

[@sarak6860]

Erasmus knew Greek, while Augustine did not. The Eastern Orthodox never esteemed Augustine in the same way that Catholics do. They say that because he did not know Greek, he misunderstood some of the teachings of the New Testament.

[@emmanuelkagabo-q4c]

How about Paul compared to humanist Erasmus ? Given Paul and Augustine agree?

[@JoshtheNazarene]

So, what's going to happen with this film now that R.C. Sproul Jr. was busted for adultery and DUI with a minor? "Abstain from all appearance of evil." (1 Thessalonians 5:22).

[@michellecheriekjv4115]

Soo ones man's sinful nature should change God's word? 🤔

[@HerdingDogRescuer]

What is the point of asking yourself "how can I escape the judgement" if you are the elect? If you are the elect, then you don't have to ask yourself that question at all. God has already chosen you and it's a done deal. And if you are a reprobate, then there's no hope. So RC, I don't see why that is the most important question one could ask themselves.

[@redwine65]

sola gratia

[@Spillers72]

What if only the elect are saved and God has to choose you and wake you up, BUT the little secret is that all are chosen and elected? This would harmonize all the Calvinist and Arminian proof texts. It also is in line with all the universal salvation passages like col 1:20, romans 5:18, I cor 15:22-28 and many more. I used to be a universalist in absolute terms but do now believe that a person can opt out and thus commit blaspemy of the holy spirit which is to reject christ. Most people embrace the light of God and Christ as they are crossing from this life into the next just before the judgment/life review starts. The near death experience can help with understanding.

[@soteriology1012]

Over and over again I must warn all those that believe in an unlimited atonement that it is not the problem of limited vs unlimited atonement that solves the issue of free will vs divine sovereignty. It is the issue of a personal atonement VS an impersonal atonement limited or not. I cannot stress this point more that an unlimited personal atonement is EQUALLY as deterministic as to whether a person goes to Heaven or Hell as any limited or particular redemption schema. In an unlimited personal atonement your salvation ot lack thereof is not written on tablets of stone or steel or titanium or neutronium. It is written in the very wounds of Jesus Christ because if Jesus only died for the sins you actually commit and no more or less then if you do not believe a complete record of your unbelief is written in the wounds of Christ & His cross. If you really do believe at some point in your life then somewhere YOU REPENTED of UNBELIEF and therefore are saved and that means that Jesus STOPPED paying for unbelief for at least one spiritual moment of your life. In other words Jesus Christ stopped payment on your unbelief sin record as an unbeliever and therefore you believed. But if Jesus Christ kept paying for your unbelief without respite then that means you never believed. However if after Jesus stopped payment on your unbelief you later revert to unbelief then you went from unbelief as an unbeliever to faith back to carnal unbelief as Jesus paid the sins of His believing children as well as them that believe not. The absurdity of a personal atonement is that WHEN JESUS pays for your sin YOU MUST SIN and when Jesus stops paying for any particular sin YOU MUST STOP & REPENT. In one horrible sense this makes Christ out to be SIN's MINISTER. But if the payment Jesus paid has nothing to do with the sins we commit then WE ACTUALLY HAVE A CHOICE. I simply believe that the atonement provides infinitely greater inexhaustible grace than the whole human race can ever expend. I put it this way. When the last sinner repents and time is no more then the ocean grace wrought at Calvary will be at no level lower than when the Lamb of God was freshly slain. Therefore there is a legitimate choice and in fact life is full of legitimate & illegitimate choices both before and after one believes or rejects the grace of God..

[@truthbeyond3624]

Ofcourse is unlimited unatonement for God is unlimited in love and the creator of it. And there is a book which is the book of Life which our names are written since the foundation of the world.

[@Mario_1611]

It's easy to spot the Arminians below... Trying to pass these long Epistles off as comments 😂

[@evanu6579]

Mario1611 Jhn 12: 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. Could these have believed had they not been hardened?

[@seanhancock6664]

What ever happened to the fact that Jesus died for ALL. Whether you are elect or unelect doesn't matter. Jesus paid the price for us all. That means every single person in this entire existence. Why can't we read Scripture today...

[@ryangallmeier5987]

Jesus died for "ALL"? Calvinists reject the assertion that Christ died for every single individual sinner, because the Scriptures teach that "we have now been justified by his blood" (Rom.5:9). Justification comes by the blood of Christ (the efficient cause of justification, and the basis for the Reformation motto, "Solus Christus"). Therefore, if Christ died for every single individual, then we have universalism (which the Scriptures clearly teach against). Do you believe in universal justification, and the result: universal salvation? In other words, are you a universalist?

[@seanhancock6664]

No, I'm what is called a Christian and if Salvation wasn't for everyone then I should stop witnessing Jesus Christ to complete strangers....which is not going to happen...ever till I breathe my last...everyone can have a chance to be saved. Jesus death on the Cross was for every single human on this Earth. "For we all fall short of the glory of God." Romans . 3:23. That means that we are ALL short of perfection, we have the stench of sin on us 24/7 and only Jesus' blood on Calvary can save us from that. When we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior (thank God because I can this in my personal life), we become a new creature, we become one of his children. John 1:12 says this, "Yet to all who received him, to all who believe in his name, he gave the right for them to become children of God even to those who believe in His name, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." What does this say to me because John 3:16 and Romans 10:9, there is HOPE for those who know Jesus as their Lord and Savior and they can have the privilege to be one of his own when they receive Christ as their Lord and Savior. His Grace is the only thing that keeps me going. And the Bible completely supports Salvation for everyone...you are taking Scripture out of context, which is also called twisting the Word. But you do make a point which I agree with. Jesus death, burial and resurrection, which fulfilled SALVATION is indeed completely INCLUSIVE and not EXCLUSIVE to all who believe.

[@TroddinSod]

sean hancock _"if Salvation wasn't for everyone then I should stop witnessing Jesus Christ to complete strangers"_ Salvation being available to everyone, or, not, is not an issue in regard to "witnessing Jesus Christ to complete strangers". Jesus came to; "seek and to save that which was lost", and; "to save His people from their sins", and, "to separate the sheep from the goats and the wheat from the tares". So, the duty of the Christian in his witnessing of Christ is to effect the purpose for which Christ came, namely, *"to save that which is lost"*, not that which is found , and, *"to save His people from their sins"*, not all people, and, *"to separate the sheep from the goats"*, not turn goats into sheep. The preaching of the Gospel is a double edge sword, unto the elect it is the "Good News" of redemption in Christ Jesus, to the "vessels of wrath fitted to destruction", "the goats", "the tares", "the reprobate", it is the crucible of God's Judgment and Wrath. The true Calvinist is ever diligent to make the Gospel known to all the "complete strangers" they encounter, yet, knowing all along, as Paul stated: 2Co 2:14-15 _"Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life."_ So, not only is your notion, 'salvation is for everyone', utterly erroneous, the fact that it isn't shouldn't derail any Christian from witnessing Jesus Christ to every complete stranger they run into. That is, the only way by which the lost can be found and the sheep are separated from the goats. _"Jesus death on the Cross was for every single human on this Earth."_ Unfortunately for you, you don't have a single Bible verse to support your claim. That is of course, if you choose to misinterpret the meaning of the world "all" as it is translated in the New Testament, and then make it contradict directly the more clear and lucid Scriptural passages which clearly state GOD had no intention of saving, the Canaanites, whose hearts GOD hardened so that they would be "destroyed utterly" (Joshua 11:20), or, Esau and his descendants whom HE clearly hated (Malachi 1:3, Romans 9:11-13), or, the "vessels of wrath fitted for destruction" (Romans 9:22), or, Judas, for whom it would have been "good for... if he had not been born" (Matthew 26:24) So, tell me, with all these verses that clearly state irrefutably, GOD had no intention of saving these people, why do you spuriously assume "Jesus death on the Cross was for every single human on this Earth"? Do you realize, in making this claim, you make the Suffering, Agony, and Death of Jesus, to be more of a failure than a success. As Jesus said Himself; Mat 7:13-14 _"wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." So, you have a very serious dilemma on you hands. According to you, Jesus' Passion and Death, is more of a failure than a success. And yet, with your last breath, you want to go witnessing to complete strangers that Jesus suffered and died on the Cross in vain for those who go to hell. But Paul in Ephesians 1 states otherwise. *Those whom GOD has "predestined unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself"...."made us accepted in the beloved"...."according to the riches of His Grace", found in the "forgiveness of sins and redemption in His Blood", to "abound in wisdom and prudence having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He hath purposed in Himself."* This passage of Scripture states with no uncertain terms, that the Grace found in the redemption of His blood was made to "abound in wisdom and prudence", which means it could not fail upon anyone to whom it was directed. You, sir, unfortunately make the impious stand that the "wisdom and prudence" of GOD, which makes the Grace and Redemption in Christ's Blood to "abound", fails most of the time, all of the time. I strongly recommend to you my friend, you reconsider what you say and ask yourself: "Is it more accurate and right to preach Jesus' suffering and death failed to accomplish what is was intended by GOD to accomplish, or, to preach Jesus' suffering and death will save all for whom GOD chose to save." Remember, Jesus clearly stated: Joh 10:27-29 _"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."_ So, for what purpose did the Father give the sheep to Jesus? Was it not, for Him to die for their sins? So, if Jesus was sent to die for everyone, you create a serious contradiction in Scripture which says Jesus will lose none of them, but most end up in hell. I'm sorry, there's no way for you to reconcile these conspicuous, and rather blasphemous conundrums your claims create. But I welcome any effort you can muster to try. But you're treading on seriously Holy Ground, and you should be very careful. What you're espousing is basically Jesus only died to give an opportunity to be saved, but did not save anyone in all His agony, torture and death.

[@seanhancock6664]

You are quite hateful...I was reading your other posts...are you a Christian?

[@seanhancock6664]

I'm confused by your post as well and I will respond when I get time off of work. Can we talk some more?

[@Scripture-Man]

Armenianism is wrong, however, Calvinism is dangerous heresy. BEWARE of Calvinism, it is not Biblical. Some elements of Calvinism are correct (eg God's sovereignty and His election) however, the rest is absolute heresy and will destroy your soul. Men are not saved "automatically" by "trusting doctrines"; men are saved by an ACTIVE and CONTINUED trust AND OBEDIENCE to Jesus Christ, exactly as the Scriptures say. Jesus said STRIVE to enter in, because many will try to enter and will not be able to (Luke 13:24). Jesus said that those who "heareth" His words but "doeth them not" will be destroyed (Matthew 7:26). And again, the Scripture declares: "Man is justified BY WORKS and NOT by faith alone". And that you will perish "UNLESS ye repent" (Luke 13:3) The Scripture says you will be saved "IF thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus." (Rom 10:9) This is WORKS based salvation! If you don't turn from your sin and repent, you are GOING TO DIE. The Bible is FULL of warnings about losing your salvation, over and over. Have you not read the Parable of the Sower? The most repeated parable in the whole of the Bible! Calvinists cannot see this because they are blind to the truth. Do not be led by these blind leaders, turn instead to the Scriptures and pray that God will fill you with the truth! Evil men like Luther and Calvin didn't even accept all of the New Testament as Scripture, they denied whole books such as Revelation and James, so OF COURSE their teaching was wrong! How can we presume to be God's Elect? Because we call ourselves 'Chrsitians'? No, we can presume to be His Elect because we hear His voice and do as He says. And God commands us to: "GIVE DILIGENCE to make your calling and election sure: for IF ye do these things, ye shall never fall" (2 Peter 1:10) and "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall NOT inherit the Kingdom of God" (1 Cor 6:9) Calvinism, on the other hand, tells people that if they "trust in what Jesus did" then God must have already destined them for salvation and they don't need to repent, don't need to be baptised, and don't need to continue in faith. But the New Covenant is not just about forgiving evil men: it is about SAVING evil men FROM their sin! God sets men free from sinful desires: He causes us to be born of His Spirit, to be made holy and righteous, receiving a new heart. While the Old Covenant gave people a superficial form of outer goodness, the New Covenant makes men good from the inside out, by Spiritual birth. 1 John 3:9-10 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. "In this, the children of God are manifest: and the children of the Devil: whoever doeth not righteousness is not of God."

[@bermudaone9455]

You must not have watched the video because you clearly dont understand calvinism.

[@danrebolledo8385]

+Lee Bee yeah, i don't think you have a good handle of calvinism, i dont think anything you said was accurate....

[@markrogers7546]

It's a bit ironic that in a video about Calvinism, people are being interviewed in front of a sign for "Free Will Baptist Church"!!

[@TheExodvs]

I think that was the point. They were subtly implying that Arminians will concede many points to Calvinists when pressed.

[@Michael_Chandler_Keaton]

Such a great film. Still can't believe Holmberg was a false convert the whole time, that swam the Tiber to embrace the smells and bells of Rome. Pity.

[@normanpelley]

Excellent!!

[@jonathankotyk3075]

Matthew 7:24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”

[@JP-kx2qv]

its God's grace at the cross plus NOTHING...not God's grace PLUS MAN...

[@Jesusisyhvh1]

amen

[@dubbelkastrull]

1:01:55 bookmark

[@cbattles]

The Bible says the daughters of the Harlot are more evil than their mother. So true.

[@goldsmith001]

Is there an alternative? Why Calvinism And Arminianism Cannot Give Assurance!

[@michaelfaber6904]

"The doctrine of Calvinism has never been defeated because you can't defeat the Scripture. Calvin's teaching is the true teaching of Christ and Paul.." 1:07:08. He goes on to say that it is impossible to defeat Calvinism. This is the HEIGHT of the sin of PRIDE, to claim that one's systematic theology has the authority and inerrancy of Scripture. Calvinism has denied sola scriptura and abandoned Semper Reforma. Calvinism has replaced the Scriptures with the Institutes. This statement is a clear indication of that. Of this, Calvinists need to repent.

[@misse8787]

No, Calvin like Augustine didn't affirm or invent anything that wasn't already found in Scripture. Calvinism is another word Reformed Theology. Certain teachers in life were able to accurately interpret, Calvin and the Reformers communicate this to the masses.

[@soteriology1012]

@8:43 Calvinist's definition of man's responsibility. God alone pre-determines the person's actions without any response from the person while the person alone bears the punishment or reaps the rewards for those actions.

[@seekrighteousness297]

Some of this is right we need to study the history of all sides of our faith. But both sides of each argument has correct things according to scripture and false things. You are trying to do the same thing politicians due its either this way or that way there is no middle ground. God gave people free will to chose Him. Yes its all predestined.not because we lost our free will but because God made His rules and was able to look in to the future to see who would do what and navigated and made His plans accordingly. To make sure His plan always be the final out come. He did not take our free will and just start making one day a person that would go to heaven and the next make one to go to Hell. He made a person and in the instance of giving it life new every decision that person would make. When God decided to make humanity, in that instance He new every decision each person would make. God is Justice He is not going to say that He is free will but you don't get to make any decisions. We need to take the right of each teaching according to The Bible and get rid of the rest. You have to have true repentance to be saved if you don't choose to follow the commandments then how can you have true repentance and be saved by Gods Grace. Yes only God can save through His giving to us Jesus to die for our sins. But if you go to the full Calvinist doctrine your belief then you are saying you can do what ever you want and breaking any commandment and God saves you through grace you don't have to ask God does it automatically after you are saved and start believing in God and that Jesus died for your sins.That is not what the bible says. No doctrine made by humans is going to be totally correct that is why God gave us the scriptures to base all teachings against to make sure we have a truth to base all things off of.If it follows the bible Keep it if it does not follow the bible get rid of it period. So no matter whether its Catholic, Calvinist, Armenian, or any other Christian doctrine we must study the history of our faith bring it to the Bible and follow all that follows the full and entire Bible anything that does not follow the Bible goes in the what not to follow file. There is good and bad in all of the teachings there is no such thing as my way or your way there is only God's Way. All humans make mistakes and are constantly growing in the Faith and walk with God. I also believe that God leaves that little bit of wrongness in human teachings and does not give one person or council of persons all the answers so people remember He is the only one with all the answers. I hope this helps everyone please Pray to The Lord talk with Him on this before you totally listen and follow any doctrine to its fullness if you study all of the doctrines of the different human teachings some of it will be correct and some wont but not all of any human creation in one hundred percent correct that's why God Gave A Standard for all things of faith and practices according to Him. IF IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THE BIBLE THROW IT AWAY. BUT THE PARTS THAT FOLLOW THE BIBLE KEEP IT.

[@davidodom9518]

+Seek Righteousness John 1:13 says our will had absolutely NOTHING to do with acquiring our salvation.

[@seekrighteousness297]

+David Odom i never said anything like that. please read entire statement before commenting. I say you need true repentance you need to strive your best to live like God has told us to. You also need faith in the gift of salvation that was given to us by God's grace and all the other promises God made. The Bible also says faith without good works is dead. But above all you need love without love you have nothing keep up the faith. The Father above will give you will, strength, and the knowledge of TRUTH. My statement above was about no denomination has all of the truth they rather argue with each other than finding righteousness together. I take almost all of my doctrine from the Ante-Nicene writers they actually were taught by the disciples themselves. Closer you get to the source of a thing the less chance of misinterpretation. Did you know at the council of Nicea they took half of the original new testament out of the Bible and hid it under the table so people could not see them. Read The suppressed Gospels and epistles of the original new testament written by Archbishop Wake. He attests that he had to let people know this happened. As soon as Constantine got involved those people put the emporer over God most of the council were not even Christian they just jumped on a band wagon. I do nothing all day but study this stuff all day we need to seek to be righteous just like God asks us to do.

[@dennisvvugt]

Toepassingsmogelijkheden Gogme betekent ongeveer hetzelfde als gevoel. Zie alle synoniemen hieronder. Synoniemen intelligentie , gevoel , intuïtie , lees het spel npo1 voetbal

[@mikem820]

Boy, all these problems just because Adam ate an apple that god told him not to eat!? I’m just glad Adam didn’t steal his car… or was it chariot back then. Cmon god, give him a break after all he was just a kid and was hungry

[@davidkennedy6251]

I love the initial quotation from CS Lewis but it is odd that this presentation opens with a quote from an orthodox Roman Catholic.

[@TheExodvs]

He was Anglican.

[@roxykattx]

The only God who can be TRULY loved (not just feared) is the one who has decided all people, all individuals, shall be saved. No exceptions. We are his children or we are not.

[@wtom04]

The following quotes come from eminent Calvinist apologists that show the connection that Calvinism has with Roman Catholicism. If you were to do your own research, the best you could do is go to history books, interview scholars and "theologians" in Calvinist and Roman Catholic circles, public libraries, journals, etc, but there is no way you can take a time machine to go back in time to verify your research. 1) Richard Muller - "John Calvin was part of a long line of thinkers who based their doctrine of predestination on the Augustinian interpretation of St. Paul." In his book, "Christ and the decree" 1988 page 22. 2) Alvin Baker - "There is hardly a doctrine of Calvin that does not bear the marks of Augustine's influence." In his book, "Berkouwer's Doctrine of Election: Balance or Imbalance" pg 25. 1981, 3) Gregg C. Singer - "The main features of Calvin's theology are found in the writings of St. Augustine to such an extent that many theologians regard Calvinism as a more full developed form of Augustinianism." In his book, "John Calvin: His roots and fruits" , 1989, pg. viii 4) B.B. Warfield - "The system of doctrine taught by Calvin is just the Augustinianism common to the whole body of the Reformers." In his book, "Calvin and Augustine", page 22, 1956. 5) Loraine Boettner - "Calvin and Augustine easily rank as the two outstanding systematic expounders of the Christian system since Saint Paul". In his book, "The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination" page 405, 1932. 6) John Calvin himself - "Augustine is so wholly with me, that if I wished to write a confession of my faith, I could do so with all fullness and satisfaction to myself out of his writings" In the book, "Calvin's Calvinism:"A treatise on the eternal predestination of God" written by John Calvin in 1552, Translated by Henry Cole, page 38, 1987. 7) B.B, Warfield - "Augustine is in a true sense the founder of Roman Catholicism" In his book, "Calvin and Augustine" page 313, 1956, It was Augustine who invented his own twisted interpretation of "PREDESTINATION/UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION" in his book, "City of God". Augustine states,"That owing to one man all pass into condemnation who are born of Adam unless they are born again in Christ, even as He has appointed them to be regenerated, before they die in the body, whom He predestinated to everlasting life, as the most merciful bestower of grace; whilst to those whom He has predestinated to eternal death, He is also the most righteous awarder of punishment." - "The City of God" On the Soul and its Origin - 4.16 Again, it was Augustine who invented "IRRESISTIBLE GRACE" in his book, "The City of God" - "On the predestination of the saints" -7, 8, 16. Augustine errantly believed that the will of God became the cause of all things - In his book, "City of God" - under "Enchiridion" - 95, 96, 100, 101. Augustine errantly believed "that no man is saved unless God wills it." In his book, "City of God" - under Enchiridion - 103. It was Augustine who invented what is now known today as the 5th point of Calvinism which is "PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS": Augustine states, "We, then, call men elected, and Christ's disciple's, and God's children, because they are to be so called whom, being regenerated, we see to live piously; but they are then truly what they are called IF they shall abide in that on account of which they are so called." In "City of God" - "On Rebuke and Grace" - 22. Augustine states, "It is, indeed, to be wondered at, and greatly to be wondered at, that to some of His own children--whom He has regenerated in Christ--to whom He has given FAITH, hope, love, God does not give PERSEVERANCE also." - In his book, "City of God" - "On Rebuke and Grace" - 18. Augustine states, "But they who fall and perish have never been in the number of the predestinated." - In his book, "City of God" - "On Rebuke and Grace" - 36. Augustine errantly believed that salvation can be lost and he taught that only those who are regenerated by God and PERSEVERE, or in those that have lost their salvation that only after they "persevere" that the grace of regeneration is restored, are finally saved. - In his book, "The History of Christian Doctrines" - Louis Berkof - page 136, 1937. Now, does that not sound like what Calvinism currently teaches? Augustine's version of "predestination", "irresistible grace", and "perseverance of the saints" sounds identical to what MacArthur, Piper, and what Sproul teaches which are 3 of the biggest names in Calvinism/Lordship Salvation today. Are they not? Is that not what Calvinism teaches? Calvin's idol was definitely Augustine.

[@Cuinn837]

Dr. Leighton Flowers has the right ideas about Calvinism

[@Irish_Jiagalo.]

I'm at a reformed bible college. most are 5 pointers. I read calvin luther. etc. I'm the same i don't see conscistincy with devine elction. i want to. i want to sort it out in my head. but 4 points now for me

[@joelrodriguez1232]

Christopher Hazlett we are on the same 🚣 boat brother.

[@CallingGodsElect]

Unfortunately, this teaching is called “Calvinism,” when in fact it’s simply what The Bible teaches, it’s biblical Christianity. John Calvin was a brother in the LORD JESUS CHRIST who was led to follow what The Bible taught. By naming it “Calvinism” many think this theology is something that started with John Calvin after the reformation but it really started with JESUS CHRIST when GOD wrote our names in the Lambs Book of Life before He laid the foundations of the world.

[@theTavis01]

It's called "Calvinism" because no person would ever arrive at such a theology by just picking up a Bible and reading it for themselves

[@michellecheriekjv4115]

​@@theTavis01Millions have....📖

[@theTavis01]

@@michellecheriekjv4115 really....cool story bro.

[@nayinayi1]

Deuteronomy 30:19 - This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live....

[@KyleMassengale]

If man has no free will to choose to repent and turn to God, then what is the purpose of an educational video explaining this to men who have no ability to choose once they understand it? In other words why even explain the gospel to people who have no free will? At 1:02 it gives the height of absurdity of this theology. What is being propagandized in this video is no more than atheism cloaked in religion. Atheism is the same belief that man has no free will to choose!! That we are just here as a result of atoms bouncing off of one another and have no ability of true conscious choice. This is exactly what Calvinism and the like produce!! It is then only the "elite" of the species that claims any type of higher calling and responsibility. But for what purpose??? To just tell others of their miserable existance of non-choice and how they are to serve the greater "beings"?? This is the height of abserdness. Why then even discuss religion? To those who can understand and choose it is of no effect. To those who have been "elected", they already know it. What an effort in futility. This certainly is not the truth of the matter, nor does it represent the truth from either side. If man is completely dead in the sense the video claims, then how could man even comprehend the calling to life? Does not man live while he is dead? and does not a dead man breathe while he is alive? If yes, then the understanding is that the Bible speaks of these matters in two distinct understandings. Man is still conscious while he is dead in sin. Man still understands while he is dead in trespasses and can appreciate the sacrifice of God while yet in sin. If he can have a sense of appreciation, then certainly that is a good work, is it not? Forgive me, but I will now interject Jesus into this pablum of falsehoods. John 8 speaks directly against Calvanism. Here were people dead in sin yet they could hear and had the capacity to understand and respond. They had the capability to grasp, take hold of the words of Jesus. Jesus did not say "I am so sorry that you do not have the ability to respond to my words so you will be lost." He told them "If YOU BELIEVE NOT that I am he, you will die in your sins." Now where did the responsibility lie?? "YOU"!! Were they spiritually dead? Yes. Were they conscious of sin? YES Were they conscious of Jesus? Yes! Who then had the abiliy to accept Him? They did! John 7:17 "If any man will (your desire to know) do (personal action- ie. If any man be willing to do) his (the one who sent Christ) will (desire for man), he (the one who desires it) shall (imparatively gain) know (understanding) of the doctrine (literally "he shall be knowledgable concerning the teaching") whether it be of God, (or "which more out of the God") or I speak of myself (meaning "I, from myself, am talking"). If Jesus is correct, which he is, he then plainly says, man can decern for himself the teachings of God. If this is so, which it is, then man can certainly do so without the aid of some divine miraculous appointment. If that is the case, which it is, than man can respond for Jesus immediately says, "Did not Moses give you the law, and YET NONE OF YOU KEEPETH THE LAW?" His point being, they could understand it and therefore they can choose to keep it or reject it. The choice was rejection not because they COULD NOT believe but that they CHOSE not to believe.

[@ryangallmeier5987]

You wrote three paragraphs, each of which can be easily answered, and expounded upon if the need arises (or, if you have any questions you would like to ask after my response). Paragraph 1: Why evangelize if absolute, divine (triune) predestination is true? Answer: because God uses means to accomplish His purposes; and the primary means by which God effectually calls His elect unto Himself is the preaching/proclamation of the gospel concerning the Christ. Paragraph 2: Does "deadness" mean that fallen sinners cannot hear the gospel? Answer: there are two kinds of "hearing" in Scripture. One is hearing, but not assenting to what is heard, saying, 'I don't agree with the propositions put forth'; the second is a hearing that includes both understanding and assent that the propositions heard are in fact true. The former, every fallen sinner can do; the latter, no one can do unless God performs a miraculous work in their hearts first (cf.Jn.6:44). Paragraph 3: In John 10, Jesus says, "you do not believe because you are not among my sheep" (Jn.10:26). It seems that your theology would wish the text to say, "you are not my sheep because you do not believe"; but that's not what the text says. Please respond and let me know what your thoughts are on this text. Lastly, concerning the issue of responsibility, it seems as if you subscribe to the theory that 'free will' (in the synergistic definition of the term, which is not a proper, biblically-derived definition, btw.) is the prerequisite for responsibility. I would argue strongly against this theory.

[@TroddinSod]

+ Kyle Massengale _"If man has no free will to choose to repent and turn to God, then what is the purpose of an educational video explaining this to men who have no ability to choose once they understand it?"_ The problem we have here is in the ambiguity of the English language. Though English is a beautiful language, with one of the largest vocabularies of all the languages that have ever existed, it has an immanent vagueness when it comes to discussing/debating particular issues pertaining to complex and extensive subjects. Your comment here is a 'case & point' example, as your understanding of the meaning of the phrase; "free will", is not what a Calvinist thinks of when he considers the terms. To the Calvinist, the idea of man having; _"no free will to choose to repent and turn to GOD"_, is not what you think it means. The Calvinist understands this to mean; "man in his natural, conceived and born in sin state, never sees the need, or, has the desire to repent, or, seek forgiveness from GOD because his heart is "dead in trespasses and sins". It's not about the lack of a man's _"freedom of the will"_, it's about the _"natural desire and proclivity of the will"_ of the unregenerate man which apart from the regenerating work of GOD's Grace, will NEVER desire the things of GOD, as the Scriptures state so clearly: *Gen 6:5* _"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."_ *1Co **2:14* _" But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."_ *Rom **3:11* _"There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."_ *Rom **3:12* _"They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."_ So, it's really not about a man's will being free, because any Calvinist will tell you, that man is free to choose what ever sin he enjoys most, along with the amount of sugar & cream he puts in his coffee. Rather, it's about man's will, in his natural state, would never ever concern himself about GOD's Holy Law, or, the Gospel, because he has not need for it. Hence, it's akin to a blind man, who has the free will to go about his business the way he wants, but he will never be able to make himself see. So, to the Calvinist, a man has "no free will", not because man never experiences the freedom to choose what he wants. Rather, it's because he's dead in his trespasses and sins, he *_would never want to choose_* what he needs to be "made alive" and be forgiven. _"In other words why even explain the gospel to people who have no free will?"_ Because you may never know, you might be preaching to someone whose heart GOD is transforming by His Grace, to understand his need for Christ to pay the price for his sins. _"If man is completely dead in the sense the video claims, then how could man even comprehend the calling to life?"_ The only way, is if GOD "makes him alive" and begets him anew by His Spirit. *Joh 3:3* _"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."_ *Joh **6:44* _"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."_ *Eph 2:4-5* _"But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)"_ *Tit 3:5* _"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."_ *Eze **36:26**-27* _"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."_ _"Does not man live while he is dead? and does not a dead man breathe while he is alive? If yes, then the understanding is that the Bible speaks of these matters in two distinct understandings. Man is still conscious while he is dead in sin."_ No problems here, until you go on to say: _"Man still understands while he is dead in trespasses and can appreciate the sacrifice of God while yet in sin."_ NOPE!! Man in his natural state can understand many things. He can even understand the logic of the Gospel. But the fact he's unregenerate, has a hard heart, is spiritually dead, he will never care about the Gospel, or, that the Bible incriminates him as a sinner headed for hell. He simply does not have the capacity to care, or, believe it's true as the Scripture I cited above attest unequivocally (Genesis 6:5, 1 Corinthians 2:14, Romans 3;11,12. _"If he can have a sense of appreciation, then certainly that is a good work, is it not?"_ Here you engage a 'begging the question fallacy', whereby, you predicate your question on the unproven presumption man can "have a sense of appreciation". The natural man, conceived and born in sin, who is "dead in trespasses and sins", *_cannot_* have a sense of appreciation for the Gospel, and thus, will not respond to it. _"John 8 speaks directly against Calvanism. Here were people dead in sin yet they could hear and had the capacity to understand and respond. They had the capability to grasp, take hold of the words of Jesus."_ This is complete balderdash. You cannot show from the Text the people _"could hear and had the capacity to understand"_. This is gross presumption and diametrically conflicts with many other Biblical statements about Jesus' public preaching and the ability of the people to understand: *Mat **13:11* _"He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given."_ *Luk **8:10* _"And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand."_ There are many more. What you need to do, is reconcile these passages with your spurious claims the people "could hear and had the capacity to understand". I'm sorry, friend, you're simply way off base. _"Jesus did not say "I am so sorry that you do not have the ability to respond to my words so you will be lost." He told them "If YOU BELIEVE NOT that I am he, you will die in your sins." Now where did the responsibility lie??"_ It's not about "responsibility" is about "ability". Why should they believe what this carpenters son said? We're all responsible for our sin, and to know the truth. The fact that the Pharisees rejected Jesus' words only proves they were unregenerated, and simply couldn't grasp it even if they wanted to, which they didn't. _"Were they spiritually dead? Yes. Were they conscious of sin? YES Were they conscious of Jesus? Yes!"_ The were indeed "spiritually dead, which means, they were not conscious of their sin, and were no where close to being conscious of who Jesus really was. So, "NO", they were not conscious of their sin, and they were NOT conscious of who Jesus really was. _"Who then had the abiliy to accept Him? They did!"_ That would violate what is clearly stated in 1Corinthians 2:14. You need to reconcile these verses that utterly contradict your claims, otherwise, you need to recant your claims. Together, they both can't be right. Please explain yourself. Peace Out!!

[@KyleMassengale]

The person who is going by Troddin Sod Said: "The Calvinist understands this to mean; "man in his natural, conceived and born in sin state, never sees the need, or, has the desire to repent, or, seek forgiveness from GOD because his heart is "dead in trespasses and sins". This is no where taught in scripture. If this is the Calvinist's understanding then it is not of a faith produced by the words of Christ (Romans 10:17). The phrase "man in his nature, conceived and born in sin state" is contrary to things taught in scripture. This doctrine is devised by men and not of God. It would do Troddin good to seek out a good lexicon on the word translated to the English phrase "man's nature". He will find that it does not speak of a 'state man is born into' but has every thing to do with his habit or practice developed based on choices made not to hear what the Spirit had spoken through Christ and the Apostles. Calvinists falsely believe that a man has not a 'spirit' to understand God's will when man is born. But can only understand by the miraculous 'striking' of God upon people whom He has chosen to save, regardless of their practice of sin. Lets deal firstly with passages such as 1 Corinthians 10 in which the English says in verse 14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God". This statement is usually lifted out of context and the Calvinist says that the natural man is a man without the Spirit of God and therefore he was born in that state and cannot recieve the things of God UNTIL God chooses that man to place his Spirit in him to understand. This is not by the choice of man but the choice of God. (But remember: God is not willing that ANY MAN perish but wants ALL to come to repentence, 2 Peter 3:9. If God only chooses a few then God is a respector of persons and damning the rest to hell. This is not consistent with the God of the Bible.) The meaning of the natural man becomes clear by reading the chapter before and after the statement is made. Surely it is not saying that a man is soul-less (psuchikos - animal like) and thus cannot be saved until God gives him the Spirit. Nor can it mean that man has a soul and that soul cannot understand spiritual things. Christ said just the opposite of this. In a miriad of passages here is just one: John 7:17 "If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority." Notice Christ himself said ANYONE and he is speaking to the Jews who did not believe. Therefore, the nature of man mentioned by Paul is simply the unbeliever who CHOOSES not to believe the truth and not that man is born in a state which he cannot understand spiritual matters of God. Again, Christ said " "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. But there are some of you who do not believe.(John 6:63)" Now honestly, why would Jesus speak 'spirit words' to people who he knew could never accept them? That would be just a mean and nasty trick Jesus play on them. Of course he was not speaking to people who had no ability to understand his words, but he was speaking to people who would CHOOSE not to believe. Thus, Paul refers to those who choose not to believe as "natural men" - people seeking their own will and not the will of God. That is consistant with the context. Paul, in defending his Apostleship, he states that he came to them not with excellence of speech but with the testimony of God. He was inspired by the Spirit to give them testimony from God. (1 Cor. 2:1) He then says that he as well as the others who are inspired by God and deliver the full message of God are relaying spiritual things. If those who were reading his letter or heard his words rejected what he was teaching then they are still choosing to be in unbelief and follow a worldly life and not a Godly life. Never does God's word say man is physically born in a state of a sinful nature. When man sins (Sin being the TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW, not something inherited but something done) the continued practice of that sin make it his habit or nature. Thus God has provided words of spirit (the Bible) for all men to recieve, discern, and obey.

[@KyleMassengale]

To be clearer - 1 Corinthians 2:14 is contrasting inspired men such as Paul and the Apostles who communicated words by the Holy Spirit verses men who had not the power of inspiration. Thus, men who where not inspired/having the Holy Spirit to guide them as was given to the Apostles did not recieve the things of the Spirit. Natural Men were uninspired men and were not to be considered as spokesmen for God while Paul and other apostles were. There would be no way for 'natural men' to know the will of God unless they listened to those who were inspired. John Calvin came up with the erroneous idea that the 'uninspired' or natural person meant that ALL people were born unable to understand the word of God, even after it was recieved and taught by the inspired person. Calvins idea was that a person was incapable of understanding and believing the word before the Holy Spirit 'enabled' him/her by a direct operation on the Spirit on the heart of the unsaved person - before belief even occured - to enable the unsaved to then believe. The NIV slants passages to this view and does not give the full meaning of the greek and the construction of context. According to Calvin a person was born wholly lost, evil, a child of Satan, born with a sinful nature. Compare the NIV with other translations: Romans 7:18; 8:4,5,9,12,13 and 3:14; Galatians 5:13, 15, 17-21 and 1 Cor. 2:14. Guilty of Adam's sin; and completely unable to understand God's will without some miraculous infussion by the Spirit. Calvin believed and taught that God had chosen or elected certain individuals to be saved and all the rest to be lost eternally. This certainly is not consistent with scripture. Even under the Old Law it was recognized that it was by choice that one would be saved or lost (See Ezekiel 18) and that by chosing to DO what was contrary to what the inspired men revealed about God's commands, man would be condemned by what he did not by what he inherited. Notice the context of 1 Corinthians 2 and read the verse following. "But the inspired man judges..." you will see the conjuctive word 'but' which tells you that the man in verse 14 under consideration is just a person who has not received the gift of inspiration. The 'inspired' man was spiritually endowed by the Holy Spirit to present exactly -word for word - what the Lord wanted revealed; yet no uninspired (aka natural man) could 'judge' such matters as were given by the Spirit. Those who rejected the inspired statements of the inspired men were not rejecting man. They were rejecting God - 1 Thess. 4:8. The same is true today. Those who reject the inspired Scriptures (2 Tim. 3:16-17) are rejecting God. It has nothing to do with being divinely chosen or being born with a sinful nature. If that is the case why did Jesus say of the children "such is the kingdom of heaven" if they were born in a state of total depravity?? Reply welcomed.

[@TroddinSod]

TroddinSod _""To be clearer - 1 Corinthians __2:14__ is contrasting inspired men such as Paul and the Apostles who communicated words by the Holy Spirit verses men who had not the power of inspiration. Thus, men who where not inspired/having the Holy Spirit to guide them as was given to the Apostles did not recieve the things of the Spirit. Natural Men were uninspired men and were not to be considered as spokesmen for God while Paul and other apostles were. There would be no way for 'natural men' to know the will of God unless they listened to those who were inspired."_ You're not making anything "clearer" here at all. And the Text says nothing about "natural men" "listening to those who were inspired". The Text states unequivocally, that the natural man cannot "know" the "things of the Spirit of GOD". 1Co 2:14 _"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: _*_neither can he know them_*_, because they are spiritually discerned."_ Therefore, even if they did listen to "inspired men", they still could NOT KNOW the things that the Spirit of GOD inspired them to say. Paul states, that just as the spirit of a man cannot be understood by another man, how much less could a man understand the Spirit of GOD. Paul states in no uncertain terms: *"THE THINGS OF GOD KNOWETH NO MAN"* Yet, only the Spirit of GOD knows the Things of GOD. And the clincher here is that Paul clearly states that ' *"WE HAVE RECEIVED THE SPIRIT OF GOD"* And it is in contrast to Paul "receiving the Spirit of GOD, he states: *"THE NATURAL MAN CANNOT RECEIVE THE THINGS OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD"* and why not? *"BECAUSE THEY ARE FOOLISHNESS UNTO HIM"*, but why? *"BECAUSE THEY ARE SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED"* which means what? *'WITHOUT HAVING RECEIVED THE SPIRIT OF GOD, THE NATURAL MAN, CANNOT RECEIVE THE "THINGS" OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD"* i.e. The wisdom, the mystery, the words and the knowledge of GOD. in other words: If you haven't received the Spirit of GOD, you cannot receive the *"THINGS"* of the Spirit of GOD. Even if, a man inspired by the Spirit of God is preaching to you. This means, they could not even "CHOOSE' to receive the things of GOD, much less believe them, because without have "received the Spirit of GOD", it's all foolishness and indiscernible. _"John Calvin came up with the erroneous idea that the 'uninspired' or natural person meant that ALL people were born unable to understand the word of God, even after it was recieved and taught by the inspired person."_ John Calvin never spoke of people as "uninspired". The word is "unregenerated". And an unregenerated person never "receives" the inspired Word of GOD, because 1 Corinthians 2:14, clearly states the "natural man *CANNOT RECEIVE THE THINGS OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD FOR THEY ARE FOOLISHNESS UNTO HIM"* _"Calvins idea was that a person was incapable of understanding and believing the word before the Holy Spirit 'enabled' him/her by a direct operation on the Spirit on the heart of the unsaved person - before belief even occured - to enable the unsaved to then believe. The NIV slants passages to this view and does not give the full meaning of the greek and the construction of context."_ What Calvin stated here is perfectly accurate according to the Bible. What the NIV states is utterly irrelevant, and why do you even bother bringing up the NIV??? It has no bearing upon the original Greek Text which is what Calvin went by. _"According to Calvin a person was born wholly lost, evil, a child of Satan, born with a sinful nature. Compare the NIV with other translations: Romans __7:18__; 8:4,5,9,12,13 and __3:14__; Galatians __5:13__, 15, 17-21 and 1 Cor. __2:14__. Guilty of Adam's sin; and completely unable to understand God's will without some miraculous infussion by the Spirit."_ You make absolutely no point here whatsoever against what Calvin stated. Why do you even bother wasting effort with the NIV? _"Calvin believed and taught that God had chosen or elected certain individuals to be saved and all the rest to be lost eternally. This certainly is not consistent with scripture. Even under the Old Law it was recognized that it was by choice that one would be saved or lost (See Ezekiel 18) and that by chosing to DO what was contrary to what the inspired men revealed about God's commands, man would be condemned by what he did not by what he inherited."_ Ezekiel 18 doesn't prove your point in any way. We are all offered choices. Yet, this does not mean we have the capacity to make the right choices. If we did have the capacity, then why does everyone fail, and why have Jesus suffer and die for us, if we are capable of not sinning? _"Notice the context of 1 Corinthians 2 and read the verse following. "But the inspired man judges..." you will see the conjuctive word 'but' which tells you that the man in verse 14 under consideration is just a person who has not received the gift of inspiration. The 'inspired' man was spiritually endowed by the Holy Spirit to present exactly -word for word - what the Lord wanted revealed; yet no uninspired (aka natural man) could 'judge' such matters as were given by the Spirit."_ Complete and utter nonsense. "Gift of Inspiration" is not in the Text. You're conspicuously making an "equivocation fallacy" by altering the meaning of the words. Paul states in conText: "*WE RECEIVED THE SPIRIT OF GOD*" Paul is NOT referring to mere "gift of inspiration". You're blatantly distorting the meaning. _"Those who rejected the inspired statements of the inspired men were not rejecting man. They were rejecting God - 1 Thess. 4:8."_ Yes, and this is what every person does, unless the Spirit of GOD regenerates them and gives them the ability to hear, see, and understand with the heart. And there is not action a person performs for this to happen: Tit 3:5 *Not by works of righteousness* [i.e. choosing to believe, exercise faith, say sinners prayer, etc.] which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit; Paul clearly states in Titus 3: there is no righteous work we perform, but by His Mercy, the Holy Spirit washes us and renews us, in order to hear, and receive the Things of the Spirit of GOD. Eze 36:26 _"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."_ There is nothing a person can do, to merit GOD to act upon them in this way. Ezekiel 36, in conText, clearly shows that wicked sinners, in their sin and hardness of heart, are converted by GOD actions alone. It is only after GOD gives a person a new heart, and His Holy Spirit, can anyone ever choose to believe Him or the Gospel. Php 1:29 For unto you *_it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him_*, but also to suffer for his sake; Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the *_author and finisher of our faith_* 2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, *to them that have **_obtained_** like precious faith* with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: _"obtain"_ = λαγχάνω / lagchánō; = *DETERMINED BY LOT* Calvin rightly divided the Word of GOD regarding these matters. You are simply following Roman Catholic Paganistic dogma that does not reconcile with the full council of Scripture.

[@NephilimFree]

Calvinist doctrines are created by a false interpretation of the passages which refer to predestination, which refer to Israel, a people unto God, and not to the individual Christian. Calvinism is an evil herecy that must be stomped out. It makes God into the author of and participant in ever single sin and insults his holy character. The Westminster Confession of Faith ( a Calvinist doctrine explained) Chapter III section V states God did not look down the corridors of time to see what a person will or will not do or believe in making his choice of whom to save, that God chose completely arbitrarily whom he would save: "V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ, unto everlasting glory, out of his free grace and love alone, without any foresight of faith or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving him thereunto; and all to the praise of his glorious grace." Calvinists proclaim "compatiblist free will. They see no contradiction between complete determinism and free will. John Feinberg, Calvinist philosopher, points out that Calvinists must accept compatablism to be consistent: "Calvinists as determinists must either reject freedom altogether or accept compatiblism." The implication this creates is explained by Calvinist philosopher Paul Helm, "If we suppose some form of compatiblism, then God could have created men and women who freely (in a sense compatable with determinism) did only what was morally right." This implies that God could have created all men and women so that all would freely chose God had he wanted to, but has not done so. The implication here is that God has intentionally created people to suffer the torment of hell though he could have made all come to him. Calvinists argue that the Armenian, or anyone who does not believe Calvinism, has the same problem, in that God has drawn some but not all to the Son. This is not so however, for as in the non-Calvinist view, as expressed by so many passages which state that any who chose God and come to Christ will be saved, man can chose freely without God predetermining his choice because while they are drawn to Christ, they are not forced to accept Christ. The problem here is that Calvinists believe that because of the changes God makes in someone, they will chose God. A condition of a free action according to Calvinists: 1. a free action is not caused or compelled by sanything external to the agent who performs it 2. It is however caused by something internal to the agent, namely, a psychological state of affairs such as a belief, desire, or some combination of these two 3. the agent performing the act could have done differently had he wanted to For Calvinism to be consistent, it requires a compatablist view of free will. If God predestined everything, then God ordains sin. If God has already elected those who are going to heaven, then why evangelize, seek to be saved, or even follow God's path? If God predestined everything, then there is no use in praying for your friends or family. If man is totally incapable of good, then man cannot truly be remorseful or repentant. If man is totally incapable of good, then man cannot be faulted for his sins. If God predestined everything, then there is no such thing as randomness. If God predestined everything, then why eternally condemn the non-elect? After all, it is not their fault.. they were predestined to be damned! Jesus died for everyone, not just the elect. Once-saved-always-saved is a farce. One only has to read the very last two verses of James (James 5:19-20) to see why. "My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. " Passages which refute Calvinism Calvinists claim God has ordered all things. Did God order Moses to disobey him when he struck the rock with his staff instead of speaking to it as God commanded him? Hosea 8 [2] Israel shall cry unto me, My God, we know thee. [3] Israel hath cast off the thing that is good: the enemy shall pursue him. [4] They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not: of their silver and their gold have they made them idols, that they may be cut off. Jeremiah 19 [5] They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind: Jeremiah 32 [35] And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I Assumption #1 Man's nature negates free will Many scriptures declare free will and choice: Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve... Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life... Matthew 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 1st Tim 5:22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure. 1st John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. Clearly wicked people can do good things, a murderer can even choose to not kill, a rapist can choose to not rape, a thief can choose not to steal...or else they would be doing it all the time. This is where Calvinist logic falls flat. T = TOTAL INABILITY - Total Depravity, taught as the Total Inability of man to choose Truth. The Calvinist plays many such word games. The Word of God teaches that God created man with the ability to reason, choose, and receive Truth: John11[26] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John12[46] I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. Acts10[43] To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. Romans10[13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Matthew18[4] Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Mark8[34] And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. John3[15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John4[14] But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. Matthew7[24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: Matthew18[4] Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Ephesians 2:8: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." Romans 10:17: "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God." James 1:21: "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and RECEIVE with meekness the engrafted Word, which is able to save your souls." Isaiah1:18: "Come now, and let us REASON together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." Deuteronomy 30:19: "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore CHOOSE LIFE, that both thou and thy seed may live." Joshua 24:15: "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Psalm 119:30, 111, 173: "I have CHOSEN The Way of Truth: Thy Judgments have I laid before me....Thy Testimonies have I taken as an heritage for ever: for They are the rejoicing of my heart....Let Thine hand help me; for I have chosen Thy Precepts." John 1:12: "But as many as RECEIVED him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name." 2 Timothy 1:12: "...I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have COMMITTED unto him against that day." U = UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION - Calvinism teaches that God selects those who are to be saved without any condition, but the Bible teaches that there is one condition to salvation: faith: 1 Peter 1:2: "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ..." 2 Thessalonians 2:13: "...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the Truth." Luke 7:50: "... Thy faith hath saved thee ..." Ephesians 2:8: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." Jesus said to Nicodemus, that you must be born again--born of God. Not being born again by-the-will of God, as Calvinists try to make it say. John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. L = LIMITED ATONEMENT - Calvinism teaches that Christ died only for the elect, but the Bible teaches that He died for all mankind. The reason not all are saved is because they failed to repent and receive the Saviour, not because He didn't provide for their salvation: Mar 4:23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear. Jhn 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever... John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth His will, him He heareth. John 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour. Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Mar 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother. Mar 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. Luk 6:47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: Luk 12:8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 1John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. Romans 5:6 says precisely "Christ died for the ungodly", and 5:8 says He died for us while we were sinners. Isaiah 53:6: "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us ALL." 1 Timothy 4:10: "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe." 1 John 2:2: "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD." Hebrews 2:9: "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that He by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY MAN." 1 Timothy 2:4: "Who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the Truth." I = IRRESISTIBLE GRACE - Calvinism teaches that God's grace for salvation cannot be resisted, but the Word of God says it can be resisted: Romans13[2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. Lamentations 3:35-36: "To turn aside the right of a man before the face of the most High, To subvert a man in his cause, the Lord approveth not." Matthew 23:37: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and YE WOULD NOT!" John 5:39-40: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And YE WILL NOT come to me, that ye might have life." Acts 7:51: "Ye stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always RESIST the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye." Proverbs 1:24-26: "Because I have called, and YE REFUSED; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh." Proverbs 29:1: "He, that being often reproved HARDENETH HIS NECK, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy." P = PERSEVERANCE - The Bible teaches preservation of the saints; not perseverance of the saints: Jude 1: "... to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ..." 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24: "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly: and I pray God your whole spirit and soul, and body be PRESERVED blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. " John 10:27-29: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life: and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Fathers hand." Colossians 3:3-4: "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory." Hebrews 7:25: "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." Calvinism clearly errs from the teaching of the Word of God on all 5 points of it's TULIP. The logical conclusion of Calvinism is that God is an unfair respecter of persons who chooses people to salvation, not according to any standard that He established, but arbitrarily. This strikes at the love and justice of God, contradicts the fact that Christ gave his life for ALL, and rejects man's responsibility to choose and love his Creator. Proverbs 24:23: "... It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment." Acts 10:34-35: "... Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth Him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with Him." John 6:28-29: "... What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? ... This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent. Romans and "Born of God" John 1:12-13 does not say we are born again of God's WILL, let us actually read verse 13 John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Let's remove what we know they were not born of and see what the verse actually says without the Calvinist twist. John 1:13 Which were born of God. NOW it becomes clear and fits hand in hand with what Jesus said to Nicodemus, that you must be born again--born of God. Not being born again by-the-will of God, as Calvinists try to make it say. As a sidenote, every version of the Bible agrees with this (my) interpretation, Young's literal translation even clarifies it as saying "begotten of God". Acts 13:48 ...and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. Proof that the Calvinists' dogmatic approach to 'foreknowing' is incorrect is Romans 11:2 "God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew." This is in reference to Israel, and would therefore indicate that all Jews would be in heaven if the Calvinist interpretation of 'foreknowledge' were true. Romans 9:11 is a strawman argument, this has nothing to do with salvation, it is in reference to the Old Testament and chosen Hebrew lineage "in Isaac thy seed shall be called". Romans 9:15-23 is easy since we already know what God really actually wants for all people..... 2nd Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." Calvinists cannot twist this verse and say that the 2nd half applies to believers, since believers have already come to repentance, and as the context around it is in reference to the worldwide flood of Noah's day, when all the people were continually evil. Romans 8:29 and Ephesians 1:4,5,11 Here are the biggest calvinist verses, along with one of the biggest assumptions. "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son..."

[@JohnQPublic11]

+NephilimFree -Excellent work Neph!

[@louroodwalker]

+John Q. Public www.scionofzion.com/universal.htm

[@JohnQPublic11]

+lou mndzbl - Please explain to the class how belief, Churches, ministry, preaching, reading the Bible and Salvation has any meaning whatsoever in a world where the elect are predestined to Heaven and the non-elect are predestined to Hell prior to Creation.

[@honephillips3840]

+John Q. Public I'm guessing that you hold to the concept (falsely drawn) that predestination removes any responsibility we have for our choices, because (by the way you phrase the question) it is plain you believe predestination and free agency are incompatible. I suggest you have a distorted view of Calvinism, as a perusal of the Canons of Dordt wiould demonstrate.

[@JohnQPublic11]

+Hone Phillips - Either "free-will" exist or "free-will" doesn't exist. There is no such thing as a sense that in some cases man has "free-will" and some other cases man does NOT have "free-will". The Calvinist belief that there are two senses of "free-will" is just mumbo-jumbo! No matter how much, or how vehemently, you and Calvinism denies it, a "free-will" that isn't free is NOT "free-will" and therefore it is a logical contradiction that requires "cognitive dissonance",

[@sarmadasco2100]

This is not a history....a real history. It is a 3 part commercial for Calvinism. There are facts thrown in, along with a great deal of editorializing. Whereas I can appreciate the effort, I would so appreciate a documentary made by National Geographic or HISTORY, no opinions, just hard facts with interpretations of those facts, neither pro nor con. This piece is, again, a sort of commercial for Calvinism and the Protestant Reformation. Sorry...moving on.

[@LuvBorderCollies]

It would be akin to a Hillary Clinton "documentary" produced by the Democratic Natl Committee.

[@jasonharkness2992]

Amen

[@nayinayi1]

You are right but not quite right. We are told to repent and turn from our evil ways, so if we are told to do something but yet incapable of doing just that, then this make no sense. Man has always been ignorant of his fallen state, so for that reason God gave the Law to bring man into repentance. Repentance comes to us through the Law. And Faith through hearing the Good news! Yes it is Not our faith that we get salvation, but The Faith of God. Please keep in mind, we can not receive The Faith of God if we are not repenting. The Faith of God lead us into Salvation... And you can not repent if you are not willing to repent (just like the Pharisees) So therefore Honor and Glory still belongs to God, because he and only he showed me my fallen state, that I was cut off from Him, cut off from His will! He opened my eyes so I'll see the Savior and appreciate Him with gratitude!!! Again all religions have some kind of Law, for that reason, men kind has been aware of this sickness before Jesus Christ had to die for our Sin, but somehow mankind have been deceived - by thinking they can cure themselves. Now we all know, that we mostly repent when we hit rock bottom, why? Because that is when we realize, we were not smart enough, we were not good enough to keep ourselves from sinning!!! Calvinism is disguising the Anti Christ in such a very subtle way that it is deadly beyond imaginable!!!! You need to understand that the devil has schemes to keep you away from the true word. Towards the End times we are advised to be: 1 Peter 5:8 - Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour. 2 Corinthians 2:11 - in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes I pray for all who have been deceived by this doctrine 2 Timothy 2:26 - Recover themselves out of the snare of the devil... John 3:16 For God so loved the WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life!!! PLEASE FOLKS STOP LOOKING AT MEN'S POINT OF VIEW ABOUT WHO GOD IS. YOU NEED TO TAKE HIS WORD AND READ IT YOURSELF, IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, ASK GOD WHO HE IS (THAT IS WHY WE PRAY - TO COMMUNICATE WITH GOD)!!! YOU CAN NOT COMPARE ERRORS WITH ERRORS TO FIND THE TRUTH. THEOLOGIANS WERE MEN JUST LIKE THE REST OF MEN KIND! THEY HAD NOTHING MORE TO OFFER TO THE KINGDOM THAN YOU DO!!!! THEY ARE NOT HIGHLY EXALTED, SO PLEASE STOP EXALTING THEM, AND KEEP YOUR EYES ON CHRIST!!!!

[@willmcpherson2]

God > Man

[@cbattles]

Certainly Jesus our Lord died a shameful, horrifically cruel and torturous death on the cross. This was none of the Father's doing. This was done to Jesus by sinful, evil men who hated him. Some say he was crucified naked. The whole thing was a shameful horror, and I don't even like to think about it, and never would go see the Passion -- by Mel Gibson. Jesus is God, our Creator, who gave up his power and glory in Heaven to come to earth, to develop in Mary's womb just like we did, to be born of her just like we all did, and all his life he never owned anything but the clothes on his back. This is the Creator of the Universe we are talking about. The suffering he endured on the cross is more than enough to show us that Jesus loves us, that he would go through that. But the Calvinists are not satisfied. The blood of God, innocent of any wrongdoing, the powerful amazing blood of God incarnate who lived his whole life on this earth, just like we do, but without ever sinning once -- that is not good enough for the Calvinists to cleanse from sin and guilt. No, the Calvinists want something else besides the horrible suffering Jesus endured at the hands of men. Calvinists have dreamed up another way they want their salvation to happen, nothing to do with what the Bible tells us, and involves an atonment that is bloodless, and is performed not by Jesus but rather by Wrath-of-God-on-Jesus, pay-it-all-forward, no-double-jeopardy atonement. To accomplish this feat of constructing a wishes and dreams made-to-order-for-themselves kind of fairy tale salvation, they wrest a word here or there to give some kind of vague support to a theology that is refuted on every page of the Bible. Do they care? The word H-A-R-M-O-N-I-Z-E is not in their theology, even though they love to pose as being so educated and use other special words to show what great Bible students they are: words like eisogesis and hermaneutics, words like that. But you never, ever hear them mention the need to H-A-R-M-O-N-I-Z-E the scriptures. Mostly they do not read the Bible, and spend their timing reading the Institutes, kind of the same way the Jewish rabbis do not study the Torah but spend their time studying the Talmud and the Kabala. That is because Calvinism is a cult, a wicked cult, just like Judaism is a wicked cult. The two cults are quite similar in many respects, and Calvinists are even often Freemasons, which is a takeoff that mirrors the Kabala. As do the Jews, the Calvinists who also consider themselves Chosen, as special as the Jews who are self-worshipping, prideful people also who have no fear of God. They are two peas in the same pod -- Jews and Calvinists. Calvinists also are in need of no savior, and no saving cleansing blood of Jesus. Both Jews and Calvinists both really hate Jesus. The Jews say that Jesus is in Hell now, boiling in a vat of hot semen. The Calvinists say all the torture was crammed into 6 hours on the cross and 3 days in Hell. Calvinists believe the Father went into a rage of vengeance against Jesus, directing all his anger against Jesus for all the sin ever committed by his chosen robots, the ones that are totally depraved as he made them to be and then sent them to do specific sins. All the things God's robots do, whether good or evil, the Calvinists believe are all orchestrated in the Father's sovereign theatrical play the Calvinists claim God is performing alone in his universe for his own amusement. The Calvinists like to imagine God to be micromanaging everything. Calvinists not only believe in a bloodless atonement but in a Father god who is cruel and likes to torture and go into a vengeful rate to get vent all his anger, all directed at his own son. Calvinists say that the reason God knows the beginning from the end, is not because God the Father is omnicient and all-knowing, but rather because God is micromanaging everything, and THAT is why he knows what is going to happen in the future. It's a very strange god these Calvinists have invented to suit their own personal wishes and dreams. The Calvinist god has made it possible for Calvinists to sin all they want with no fear of Hell or even that they would ever suffer from any guilty conscience at all, since they don't count themselves capable of making any free will choices to do anything sinful and are not responsible anyway. It's all too disgusting to think about. Makes you want to weep.

[@de629]

If what you said was true, I wouldn't be a Calvinist, but alas you do not really know Calvinism. May I recommend a book: Redemption Accomplished and Applied by John Murray to see what we really believe about what Christ did on the Cross.

[@cbattles]

Richard Moore No, I'm not going to go read a book. Why don't you just tell me in your own words. I have been in Calvinist churches and spoken and discussed pages and pages on forums with Calvinists to know what they believe and what they don't believe. So maybe you need to research the penal atonement for yourself, the paid-in-advance, no-double-jeopardy, can't-lose-it kind of salvation that Gnostic Calvinism teaches. It comes from Augustine, and it's the dual-nature gnostic belief that our spirits are pure and our bodies are pure sin. It's the idea that we are going to sin every day in thought word and deed, but someday we will be in Heaven and all will be well, our sinful evil bodies will be changed to good bodies. That's just a heresy, a license to sin, an excuse to sin up a storm without conscience or even hope of changing. Furthermore, Gnostic teaching is that the universe was formed by a low-level demon, and certainly the Calvinist "god" would fit that description. Also, consider: if God "poured out wrath on Jesus for all the sins of everybody (or even if 'only' for just the "chosen") -- not only would Jesus be vaporized but so would the whole earth. A little more critical thinking and a little less wishful thinking would serve people well to guard their hearts and minds as we are warned to do in scripture. Once you have programmed your subconscious to believe these horrific fairy tales, it's hard to undo them. Calvinists need to start back at square one. Start reading the Bible with an open mind, and first read the whole entire Bible. Get a modern version just so you can get at least an overview, for once to read things in context. This is what is totally lacking with the Calvies -- they are not familiar with the Bible, and only with phrases and sentences wrested out here and there to form a false gnostic religion from. Familiarize yourself with the entire Bible, get the big picture. Even go back and at least read the New Testament a few more times. It does not take that long to buzz through the New Testament using a modern version. Keep a King James alongside to refer to for the parts that grab you, for clarification. I do not like the NIV because it has inserted terms that are peculiar to Calvinism, have special meaning only to Calvinists, words like "sovereign" as a rock-bottom description of God (which is totally not ever in the Bible, and allows the Calvies to create for themselves a very, very, very strange god indeed for themselves. It's a legal term that is used to refer to nations, patriots like to use it in court to define their rights, etcetera. A very vague term, very legalistic term, and perfect for the gnostics to hide behind as they build their Satanic theological doctrines. I recommend Dan Corner online -- he has the best website on the whole entire Internet. Go hang out there for a few years and deprogram yourself. Many hundreds of linked articles, concise and well written, alphabetized. Lots of sermons and teachings -- and he's an excellent teacher. It's not stuffy and pedantic like the Calvies are used to -- it's designed to be easy to grasp, clear in the message, crystal clear. You may sniff at that, but only people who have something to hide have reason to use a lot of complicated sentences and strange words. Even with the clear teachings on that site, you can still spend a lot of time there for several years before you get your doctrines straight. Doctrine is everything. Wrong doctrine WILL send you to Hell, especially if you are teaching it to others.

[@de629]

cbattles I was just trying to be gracious and steer you to some helpful information. I don't really want to get into a youtube battle as you seem to have a deep seated anger toward us. But, yes we do believe we won't loose our salvation, it is secured in Christ. Salvation from beginning to culmination is a work of God and cannot but be completed as God actually saves and is not just trying to save. We believe those who make a profession and then walk away were never saved in the first place. No we don't think we can sin to are heart content. When I do sin I am deeply grieved and repent before the Lord. We believe the Holy Spirit is working in us........

[@cbattles]

Richard Moore You are doubleminded. You think God is doing all the repenting and doing, and you have no responsibility. You do believe all your sins were punished in advance in a bloodless penal atonement, and THAT'S why you can't lose it. So there's nothing I said that is not true. If there were anything not true you should be able to bring it up, not tell me to go read a book. Do you remember what the book said? If it made so little impression on you, why should I read it? What were the refuting points the book made? I already know what Calvinists believe. The blood atonement is not part of your plan of salvation, because you believe in a one-time penal atonement that pays in advance, and requires no ongoing repentance, because it's a no-double-jeopardy kind of false atonement. If you feel sorry for your sins, big deal -- so does everybody else, for awhile at least, until they kill their conscience. Muslims have a great conscience that works great for them until the day they die and they walk in the fear of God. What makes you better than them, that you figure God picked you, a sinner who feels no fear of God or need to repent and walk straight or lose your soul?

[@de629]

cbattles I have no knowledge of a bloodless atonement which you speak of. Quoting Calvin's Institutes, second book, chapter 16, section 6 "Mention is always made of the blood whenever Scripture explains the mode of redemption although the shedding of Christ's blood was available not only for propitiation, but also acted as a laver to purge our defilements" He also quotes in section 4, Rom 3:25 & 5:9. . I'm not sure what you are taking about that my sins were punished in advance. Christ was crucified before I was born, so he did it in advance. I don't think I'm better then others. I don't think I was wiser than others to choose Christ, because I didn't have the ability (John 6:44, 6:65) And we do believe Repentance is something to be done throughout our time on earth.

[@alowberg]

The last speaker said Calvinism has never been defeated because it is the doctrine of the Bible. Well, I have never tried to defeat it. But scripture tells me not to engage in debate, in science falsely, or minister questions rather than godly edifying, or strife of words, which was in large the purpose of this film. But let me just say this, Calvinism has not defeated me. God called me, that is grace, and I responded to the call and cooperate with Him daily which is the essence of saving faith. As many as are lead by the Spirit are the sons and daughters of God. It is by faith that it might be by grace. Jesus came to call the sinner to repentance--the power of salvation Paul talked about is all in the call. Thank you heavenly Father for your great salvation through grace that came through your Son Jesus Christ and is worked in me by your Spirit. "Hear what the Spirit says to the Churches. Jesus said "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches...." Who is the angel? It is they who testifies. What do the testify? These things, or the truths of Scripture from experience. And where does he testify these things? In the true Churches.

[@reicarnationcollection8609]

Oh, my. This is amazing. I was hoping for some historical explanation of the reformation. Hilarious, Jesus as a bond broker. What a metaphor for modern American. He bails us out.

[@larrybedouin2921]

Faith before regeneration, In whom also we [Ephesians] have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated *according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will* That we [Christ Apostles] should be to the praise of his glory, *who first trusted in Christ* In whom ye also trusted, *after* that ye *heard the word of truth* the gospel of your salvation: in whom also *after that ye believed* ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. {Ephesians 1:11-14}

[@seanbudde1965]

Calvinism is a philosophy that perverts God's word. Any born again believer who objectively studies the Bible deeply should eventually come to see that (like i did).

[@approvedofGod]

The origin of the Trinity doctrine comes from "Philo of Alexandria." He was the bridge between Jewish Greek Philosophy and the Catholic Fathers. Let the truth be known.

[@laurakosch]

Belief is not counted as a work. These are contrasted throughout scripture. Read Romans as a whole. God’s sovereignty is not expressed by meticulous control but by establishing the means of salvation. These are spelled out clearly in the Bible. Calvinism mocks the Gospel, it has “good news” for very few. It’s false and often outraged piety is a cover for its Augustinian Gnosticism.

[@kvnboudreaux]

Augustine believed that God changes and expands the will so that it can actually have the ability to do good. (On Free Will and Grace XV) "Lest, however, it should be thought that men themselves in this matter do nothing by free will, it is said in the Psalm, Harden not your hearts; and in Ezekiel himself, Cast away from you all your transgressions, which you have impiously committed against me; and make you a new heart and a new spirit; and keep all my commandments. For why will you die, O house of Israel, says the Lord? For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dies, says the Lord God: and turn ye, and live." "By it also it comes to pass that the very good will, which has now begun to be, is enlarged, and made so great that it is able to fulfill the divine commandments which it shall wish, when it shall once firmly and perfectly wish. This is the purport of what the Scripture says: If you will, you shall keep the commandments; Sirach 15:15 so that the man who wills but is not able knows that he does not yet fully will, and prays that he may have so great a will that it may suffice for keeping the commandments. And thus, indeed, he receives assistance to perform what he is commanded" sounds like synergism to me! That first and the last sentence is particularly opposed to monergism...in light of this how do you reconcile the assertion that augustine was a monergist.

[@wtom04]

MANY Calvinists do not want people to know the truth about Augustine whose heretical teachings heavily influenced Calvin. Augustine was engaged in a debate with Pelagius who taught works salvation. Augustine initially believed that man is saved by grace alone apart from works, BUT later Augustine wrote a book entitled, "City of God" which formed the philosophy that the Catholic church embraced for 1000 years to kill 66 million Bible believing Christians. Augustine's knowledge of the Bible was insufficient and in his failings to understand the Bible he spent 9 years in a Christianized pagan cult called MANICHAEISM. It was in Manichaeism that Augustine got the idea of the "elect" and he used this idea to overcome Pelagius's philosophical arguments about works. It appears that his idea of the "elect" does not come from the Bible, but from Manichaeism. When the Bible talks about "elect", "election", and predestination, 4 things come to mind: 1) The elect are the Jews - Israelites which are God's chosen people. 2) Election in the Bible is to SERVICE and MINISTRY for God - Moses, Aaron and the tribe of Levi, King David, King Solomon, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, apostle Paul, Simon Peter, our Lord Jesus, and Jesus choosing of His 12 disciples, Mary and Joseph, etc. Jerusalem is God's forever chosen city. God chose these people for a specific purpose. 3) Christians are predestinated to have an INHERITANCE in heaven - 1 Peter 1:3-5, John 14:1-3, Romans 8:17, Ephesians 1:5. 4) Christians are predestinated for BODILY REDEMPTION. At the rapture, Christians will be transformed and have new imperishable glorified bodies of flesh and bone like our Lord's body in Luke 24:39, 1 Cor 15:42-44, 1 Cor 15:51-55, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, 1 John 3:2, Romans8:11, Romans 8:23, Romans 8:29-30. Calvinism has hijacked the words, "elect", "election", "chose", "chosen", "predestinate", and "predestination" to mean ONLY 2 things: salvation and damnation. The Bible NEVER teaches that God "elects" or "chooses" or "predestinates" people for salvation or hell. Colossians 2:8 - Beware lest any man spoil you through PHILOSOPHY AND VAIN DECEIT, after the TRADITION OF MEN, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

[@nuggetoftruth-ericking7489]

interesting..thanks for this post

[@rob5462]

Why does this teacher contradict Jesus who said He came to save the sick? The audacity of this man is astounding!

[@shopson6991]

He doesn’t. Jesus 👉 “He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭15:24‬ ‭ESV‬‬

[@theTavis01]

@@shopson6991 Jesus said that because a Gentile woman was bothering them ... but then in verse 28 Jesus *_RESPONDS_* to her faith and heals her anyway. D'oh!! This goes against Calvinism and has nothing at all to do with predestination, but rather is an indictment on the lack of faith of the Israelites who Jesus was sent to, that even Gentiles believed more than they.

[@Chris-here]

RC Sproul: "Calvinism has never been defeated." Neither have Catholics.

[@pauljanssen542]

Watched about 10 minutes of this.....just wondering......are there ANY women at all who speak?

[@pauljanssen542]

No. Thank you for making my point. Because neither do I believe it if it comes only from men. I wasn't (back-handedly) asking for an all-women panel of speakers. Just wondering if there was even one.

[@wtom04]

The more I read about John Calvin the more it reveals that the man was definitely a murderer, especially regarding the murder of Michael Servetus whom Calvin approved of his execution just because the man had an unorthodox theological view. In Calvin’s “Defense of the Orthodox Trinity Against the Errors of Michael Servetus” he advocated capital punishment stating, “whoever shall now contend that it is unjust to put heretics and blasphemers to death will knowingly and willingly incur their very guilt” - in “History of the Christian Church”, author Philip Schaff, Volume 8, page 79, 1910, In Calvin’s 1561 letter to the marquis de Poet who was the high chamberlain to the King of Navarre Calvin states, “Honour, glory, and riches shall be the reward of your pains: but above all, do not fail to rid the country of those zealous scoundrels who stir up the people to revolt against us. Such monsters should be exterminated, as I have exterminated Michael Servetus the Spaniard.” - quoted in Voltaire, “The works of Voltaire”, volume 4, page 89, 1901, also quoted in “Ecclesiastical Researches” Church History Research and Archives, page 348, 1984, and also quoted in “History of the Donatists”, - David Benedict, Galatin, Church History Research and Archives, 1985. Even 9 years later after the execution of Michael Servetus, Calvin still justified his murder of Servetus by stating, “And what crime was it of mine if our Council at my exhortation, indeed, but in conformity with the opinion of several churches, took vengeance on his execrable blasphemies?” - in “History of the Christian Church” author Philip Schaff, vol. 8, pages 690-691, 1910. It is interesting to note that Augustine, who was Calvin’s idol whom Calvin emulated taught the same thing. Augustine states, “Why therefore, should not the Church use FORCE in compelling her lost sons to return, if the lost sons compelled others to their destruction?” - in City of God, On the Correction of the Donatists, chapter 6, section 23. This utterly false teaching of Augustine was based upon his perversion of Luke 14:23. Augustine states, “It is indeed better(as no one could deny) that men should be led to worship God by teaching, than that they should be driven to it by fear of punishment or pain; but it does not follow that because the former course produces the better men, therefore those who do not yield to it should be neglected. For many have found advantage(as we have proved, and are daily proving by actual experiment), in being first compelled by fear or pain, so that they might afterwards be influenced by teaching.” - in City of God, On the Correction of the Donatists, Chapter 6, section 21. There are many non Calvinists who see Calvin as a guilty murderer, but even among some Calvinists themselves that they see Calvin as a guilty murderer. William Cunningham states, “There can be no doubt that Calvin beforehand, at the time, and after the event, explicitly approved and defended the putting him to death, and assumed the responsibility of the transaction.” in “The Reformers and the Theology of the Reformation”, pages 316-317, 1967. In modern times, we see John MacArthur, hyper Calvinist/Lordship Salvationist who holds the same mentality. In his book, “The Gospel According to the Apostles”, MacArthur makes the following statement revealing his hostility towards us Free Grace Christians, “Frankly, some mongrel species of Dispensationalism out to die, and I will be happy to join the cortege.” - page 205, bottom paragraph. A “cortege” is a funeral procession and it is obvious that MacArthur is referring to us Free Grace Christians. So, when is force/murder justified in the name of Christianity? Throughout history, there was the Inquisition propagated by the Roman Catholic church, then we have the tortures, banishments, imprisonments, burnings at the stake enforced by John Calvin when he ruled Geneva, and now we have MacArthur who appears to hold the same view.

[@evanu6579]

1 John was written to combat this gnostic heresy. How ironic that they would quote from it to prove their position.

[@kimberleerivera7062]

The ATONEMENT that JESUS CHRIST made is for ALL who believe and are hidden in JESUS CHRIST!!! Glory To GOD!!!

[@kevinpeterson346]

Of Christ Himself , he was said to be Himself at an age to not yet KNOW to Refuse the Evil and Choose the GOOD ! God indeed regarding Salvation LOVES all mankind equally that ALL men every where are Called to Repent / Turn to Christ , God is Not willing ( NOR DECREEING ) that anyone Perish ! Men Perish by SPIRITUAL SUICIDE , by Unbelief wrought by their own Desires , Continuance and eventual Love of Sin unto bondage to it unto self Hardening unto self Delusion unto Satanic delusion unto the Second DEATH ! None Perish by Gods lack of Love but by Refusing MERCY of God who not only Loves *All in / of the World > but Christ is the VERY FOUNTAIN OF LOVE & TRUTH & LIVING WATER of which God INVITES ALL TO BELIEVE & THEN DRINK FREELY OF & LIVE FOREVER !

[@dw6528]

*C.S. LEWIS REJECTED THE GOD OF CALVINISM* At minute 0:38 We do what we do because god enables us..... INTERPRETATION: Calvin's god - at the foundation of the world - enables us - by determining every impulse that will come to pass within us - and makes those impulses within us come to pass infallibly - and thus irresistibly. We are granted NO CHOICE in the matter of that which is determined at the foundation of the world. Thus in Calvinism - we are granted NO CHOICE in the matter of any impulse that will come to pass within us. At minute 0:56 It would be right for god to destroy all of us for our sins. INTERPRETATION: Since in Calvinism - NOTHING comes to pass that is not knowingly and willingly decreed - it would be right for Calvin's god to destroy us for the things he knowingly and willingly decreed. At minute 1:18 Augustine said that man is born in trespasses and sin INTERPRETATION: In Calvinism - the state of nature - which includes man's nature - is 100% meticulously predestined - at every instance in time. So all sinful and evil impulses are 100% meticulously predestined to infallibly come to pass. And man has NO SAY in the matter of that which is predestined - and thus NO SAY in the matter of anything he will think say or do. These are some of the reasons why C.S. Lewis rejected the god of Calvinism.

[@DaveTheTurd]

Augustine did so much damage to the church, it boggles the mind....

[@ehzcolorado6593]

I believe that Adam had free will to sin. Once Adam did sin his offspring was left in bondage to sin. What was required for release from that bondage was another man of the same value before God as Adam: A man without sin. Only God could provide this man to provide a redemption from sin. This provision is God's grace, which God gave to all of mankind in the propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the only begotten son of God, the last Adam. Without God's grace no one would have faith. Faith comes through the hearing of God's grace. That knowledge of grace introduces the person to Christ who is present at tge testimony of the Gospel as the word of God through and in the Holy Spirit. It is at this time that the Holy Spirit searches the heart of the person and convicts tge person of righteousness because they have believed, of sin because they have not believed, or of judgment because they have known the Gospel truth having heard it before and have sided with the devil standing against Christ. Original sin was committed in the free willed nature of God. God's Grace and the product of its work which is Faith in Christ is solely attributable to God and justified all mankind of Original Sin at the cross while all mankind was still dead having been born dead in in sin due to inheriting Adam's sins. However, we must be born again from the seed of Christ in order to not perish for although since Christ as a species God now sees us as innocent, having been frustrated not of our own will but of that of Adam, we were born into a body like that of Adam's and like Adam, without knowledge of God's grace through and in Christ, we perish in our own sins, not Adam's, unless by the time of our death in this life we have a new creation reserved for us in Heaven thanks to the will of God not our own will resulting from the hearing of the Gospel which allows the Holy Spirit to judge our heart and convict us accordingly with each hearing of the word. In all of this God receives all of the Glory for it is all His work alone. But in all of this our free will is never lost, for original sin never robbed us of our free will, which is what makes us like God, it was merely blinded. Original sin deadened our senses and our will. As Paul says in 2 Corinthians the Gospel is veiled to those who are perishing by the god of this age. But with the hearing of the Gospel our senses are awakened if we have a heart for God. The condition of our heart is what God sees and in this our conviction from the Holy Spirit is made and in that conviction our free will is exercised as in the parable of the shower of the seed when our heart is good ground then we produce fruit. Our free will is exercised in how we respond to the conviction and if we are chosen it is because we had a heart that was good ground. All of this does not rob God in any way of any of the Glory for in all of this He has given all of the resources and extended all of the grace, which is undeserved kindness, and all we are is slaves that have done what we should have done which was to receive God's election. But to say that we cannot choose to be good or evil slaves is not Biblical in my humble estimation of scripture and the calling and election I have received from God through Christ having heard the Gospel. God has created vessels for honor and dishonor in the church and shows mercy upon whom He wishes but the word of God assures us that these are only those who refused to love the truth and thus God permits a strong delusion to come upon them and uses them for His purpose in sifting the wheat from the tares. So where I agree with some of Calvinist or Reform Theology and I agree with some of Armenian Theology I see neither as fully correct in that there are three stages to salvation that are not clearly understood by either. These are 1. justification, the declaring all of the children of Adam born of Original Sin innocent of that Original Sin; 2. sanctification, the conviction or calling of righteousness by the Holy Spirit after the heater of the Gospel truth has believed the word due to having a heart for the truth due to their free willed nature; and 3. redemption, which is when we are chosen by God at the time we have reached the end of this life and are resurrected to be with the Lord. Being born again in the Spirit of God is a promise of salvation, not actual salvation. Since God who has made the promise cannot lie we say we are saved, but it is not until we are resurrected that our election has been redeemed and we are actually saved.