AMD Perfects Ray Tracing?! RDNA 4 OVERHAULS RT Tech

[@yissnakklives8866]

I'm still not seeing the juice for the amount of squeeze with RT. When I've used it, it didn't look good enough to kill my fps for it.

[@Nobody-sp7ug]

Raster is based off of trying to match rt, the idea is you shouldn't be able to tell the difference if raster baking was halandled carefully with its restrictions considered. Sure it habdles real time changing lights and reflections and gi better, but the big difference and the reason they keep pushing for more advanced rt tech despite the performance hit is because with rt designing the lighting of a scene or making changes to an area or lighting is instant with rt, but can take months of work for artists and programmers trying to mimic those lighting visuals with raster effects.

[@aberkae]

The best return on investment in terms of performance hit for visual quality improvement imo is rt global illuminations especially with hdr. The screen pops vs rasterization ambient occlusions.

[@rodiculous9464]

That's cuz you have a poverty card most likely

[@Nobody-sp7ug]

@rodiculous9464 hey, low spec gaming is a valid lifestyle choice lol.

[@phillysupra]

no issues with my 4080 playing cyberpunk RT psycho

[@Logical]

I want AMD to succeed but they shoot themselves in the foot everytime.

[@mimon6706]

All they have to do is releasing RDNA4 at the right price. I'm curious if they can repeat their home run with the 7800XT.

[@TheUAProdigy]

They don't have the money to invest heavily in winning strategies.

[@mnomadvfx]

@@TheUAProdigy They don't have the money to invest heavily EVERYWHERE AT ONCE. That's the problem. They are spread too thin. nVidia is making CPUs, but since they abandoned their custom ARM CPU core ambitions they only use off the shelf ARM Ltd designs and thus don't need to spend on anything but licensing. Meanwhile AMD is covering CPUs, gaming GPUs, compute/HPC/AI GPUs, FPGAs and now DPUs too. To say nothing of the distraction of their semi custom APUs for Sony and MS game consoles and transient efforts like Steam Deck or the Subor thing. IMHO the only way they will ever be able to fully compete in this fashion is by merging with a larger company with more money to spend on R&D.

[@TheUAProdigy]

@@mnomadvfx I mean, I know; I said that, lol. I hope that they stop making consumer GPU's actually. People deserve less competition since they don't buy their GPU's despite being better value.

[@vulcan4d]

They accept Nvidia donations to stay a step behind im sure.

[@shmookins]

Fascinating. Thanks for the update. Everybody talking about ray tracing, but nobody talks about physics simulation. After the age of polygon count, I thought physics simulation would be next. I remember those jaw dropping cloth, water, and smoke real-time simulation demos on Nvidia cards from 15 years ago and I still don't see that level in games today. I wonder if physics, or something else, will be the focus after the ray tracing era.

[@kenshirogenjuro873]

Sadly the loftier expectations of PhysX ended up being largely abandoned. I expect the same will likely happen with RT, but we’ll see more advanced lighting getting normalized along the way. Just a matter of how much, how little.

[@xephyrxero]

They're still coming. Unreal 5.4 just enabled shadows for particle physics, like smoke. There's some pretty cool volumetric stuff in there, but it just doesn't get talked about as much

[@GForceIntel]

The problem with new physics is that it takes a real hit to performance. Rt does as well, but to a lesser extent. If you add the new physics in unreal engine 5.4 now no graphics card could run that at 30 fps.

[@sasquatchcrew]

RIP Physics/PhysX

[@NecroViolator]

Raytracing nothing new. Been around since 1980's in the Amiga !.

[@nipa5961]

RT might get important one day when it's implemented in most games and also won't cripple the frame rate anymore.

[@GlobalWave1]

You’ll need a RTX5090 with a top of the line cpu to make good use of raytracing at 4k with decent FPS.

[@lionelt.9124]

The more things change the more they stay the same.

[@wawaweewa9159]

devs are lazy

[@aeternus80]

It will definitely becoming mainstream when the PS6 and the next Xbox are released. Now they are gearing up.

[@xephyrxero]

@@wawaweewa9159 the reality is it's often not up to the devs. A product manager and business people decide how much time they get to devote to what. I'm sure most devs are just as frustrated as the gamers when their games are forced to come out unfinished. It's not about laziness, but just the limits on time available

[@Dave-dh7rt]

Im waiting for RDNA5 unless my 6750XT shits the bed or becomes so slow i cant use it anymore

[@evilsatorii]

I still prefer playing at 240 FPS then 60 FPS ( or even lover) with RT

[@HeirofCarthage]

💯

[@mrsasshole]

Amen. Concerns me that so much R&D is being spent by Nvidia/AMD/Intel on RT given the computational cost and the relative underwhelming result. There are a handful of games where RT/PT look nice, but it comes at an enormous cost. I'd far rather see a focus on better raster performance and upscaling techniques.

[@yevnal3609]

good for you

[@supremeboy]

Reason i bought recently 7900XTX. Man games look so good without RT that hinders a lot even Nvidia cards for new games.

[@jeofthevirtuoussand]

yeah if all you play are competitive games, for the rest ,raytracing is a nice boost in visuals

[@ElysaraCh]

based on whitepapers about RDNA2's architecture - which likely carried over to RDNA3 - their RT implementation could handle 4 rays-in-flight OR 1 ray intersection per clock, which is why "heavy" RT implementations cripple Radeon RT performance so badly. It's likely the RDNA4 implementation doesn't have that weakness.

[@kevinerbs2778]

Actually, no it's because they never bothered to increase the front end as they went from one instruction per-clock to dual issue instruction pre-clock that's literally 100% increase in IPC. Yet RNDA only shows a 20% increase in RT with 20% increase or RT units. the efficiency of the RT core went up by around 8-11% but they are still bottlenecked by the tiny frond end that cannot feed the RT/unit/core/accelerators, shaders, & dual instruction pre-clock. Even the R.O.P's & shader increase is about linear increase with what they added compared to RNDA2. RDNA3 should actually be around 40-66% faster pre-clock, but it's not. it's obvious why the only increased the RT units to only 96 vs 80 compared the 69/50 XTX to the 7900 XTX they were trying to alleviate the small front end by barely adding so much to RNDA3.

[@StingyGeek]

We'll see. All GPU manufacturers have a track record of hyping up their underwhelming shit to jack up the perceived 'value'. And yet when it comes to RTS you currently need a top level card for it to be a useful feature, and even then its at massive cost to FPS for really very little visual benefit. So, let's keep it real with these bastards. Gamers have been absolutely bent over on price, while the GPU makers really care about AI.

[@mx-gaming87]

If Navi 48 has the raster power of 7900XT and the Raytracing Performance of a 4070 ti super for 500$ that was be the overkill for Nvida to the 4000er series. I think that Nvidas 5080 and 5090 RTX have 100+ MSRP than 4000 series... but 5090 maybe cost 500-1000 bucks more than 4090 RTX. I dont trust Nvida with pricing their GPUs Gamers. They focus much more and AI and Miners. Miners dont care about price, if a GPU is strong. They get their money back from Bitcoin. So for normal Citizens, this is total different aspect and yes they dont care, because they make money from the other sources. Ps= If Nvida really care about, Gamers they go down with 100$ MSRP than 4000er series, but we all know, that they add more MSRP than in lower them. Capitalism sucks guys, they want every year make more money, that how they work. To get more money they take it from us if we are dumb enough to pay this, but yeah earth have a lot of rich people that dont care^^.

[@emal2170]

Well, ray tracing would be the first thing I would turn off for performance. It's always looked more of a marketing scheme to me. Talk of Amd doing an impressive rt goes back to pre rtx3000 series launch. Pre release marketing hype. Same story, new gen.

[@MrBlackdragon1230]

So I guess I will be the odd one out here that wants maxed graphics and RT and be happy with 60ish fps. I dont know why no one can see the difference with maxed out settings and rt on but I can and enjoy the hell out of it. I ran Control on my old 1080ti over clocked to hell and back with rt on!

[@mimon6706]

You ran Control with RT on a 1080ti? You are a wizard.

[@vulcan4d]

Something tells me a 8800xt will perform the same as a 7800xt but better RT. Yawn.

[@Etheoma]

Probably not because last time they did a proper techical breakdown the normies were like "WTF is this. We wanted the shiny, not the nuts and bolt." not realizing it was a game developer conference so they were going to get technical.

[@fatherwilliam7256]

"I will be quite hyped if RDNA 4 does live up to the rumors for a midrange GPU..." As would everyone including me. But has AMD ever managed to launch a GPU that's lived up to the hype? I'll cross my fingers, but I'm not holding my breath.

[@26Guenter]

Yes, they have.

[@fatherwilliam7256]

@@26Guenter Maybe they've met your expectations in the past, but I've been disappointed in every launch for one reason or another. Either the drivers weren't ready, the performance wasn't there, or the MSRP was fiction. And I'm a bit of an AMD fanboy. But they keep forcing me to buy Nvidia GPUs.

[@nipa5961]

Question should be when did Nvidia manage to live up to the(ir) hype?

[@Six_Gorillion]

@@26Guenter Back in the day of actual competition between ATI and Nvidia. That has not been the case after AMD took over. They clearly made a deal with nvidia to slice up the market. AMD gets the low end and nvidia the high end. That's why nvidia low end is too expensive for what it is and amd high end is too shit for the price.

[@26Guenter]

@@Six_Gorillion AMD was competitive for HD 4000, 5000, 6000, 7000, and RX 200 series.

[@Dave-dh7rt]

If the 8800XT is 5-15% faster than the 7900XT in raster and 10-30% faster in RT while using 240-250W at $449-499 that would be fucking AWESOME.

[@magnomliman8114]

not happening.

[@ofon2000]

​@@magnomliman8114 they might as well hope for 4090 performance at 75 watts for 165 usd

[@JanM2]

More like 500-600$

[@magnomliman8114]

@@ofon2000 lmao

[@xephyrxero]

This is great news if true. AMD has been lagging a generation or two behind Nvidia in the ray tracing department and needs a dramatic overhaul if they're ever going to catch up. In 5 years, RT will be a standard feature in almost every major title, and there will be many more fully path traced games out by then too. And when it comes to RT, Intel seems like they are ahead of AMD too currently. So AMD could find themselves in the #3 spot if something doesn't change soon

[@xephyrxero]

@Noodles1922 path tracing is just ray tracing though. Usually what people mean really by "ray tracing" is hybrid raster + some effects done via RT, versus path tracing where all aspects of the image are fully raytraced. But yes, game graphics are pretty much a solved problem once path tracing becomes the norm. Probably another 10 years away from that point though

[@rodiculous9464]

It's gonna be a standard feature in like 2 years bc game dev cycles take years and game devs have insider knowledge from hardware devs meaning there's already been games in development for years now that you don't know about that are set to drop once ps5 pro launches and once it's on console hardware it will get ported to pc and you will see it everywhere

[@kevinerbs2778]

@@xephyrxero Not one single game uses "fully raytracing that includes textures & polygon's" because it's still currently not possible to do it real time at more than 1 fps or lower.

[@pieterboots8566]

I expect AI models to come up with new algorithms that would significantly speed up the process of rendering frames.

[@Six_Gorillion]

The way they sold AI to you is not what it really is. AI is just an advanced search engine. It cannot create anything new. No revolutionary architecture can be created by it.

[@jonathonrosalia9345]

Nvidia already said that’s the next step for them

[@theendoftheline]

I expect it will be more about 10 years before you understand how to make a prediction about AI that makes any sense.

[@pieterboots8566]

@@theendoftheline great, joke 🤣 I love it.

[@theendoftheline]

@@pieterboots8566 seriously, do you really think AI llm's are designing game engines now? or did you think thats what DLSS and supersampling is?

[@_Ferrigno]

I still don't use ray tracing.

[@kenshirogenjuro873]

I have yet to enable it in anything

[@xephyrxero]

This reminds me of 20 years ago when people argued "don't use anti-aliasing" lol. Hopefully you're at least using that?

[@_Ferrigno]

some people prefer performance over ever so slightly better visuals

[@gametime4316]

i would argue that answer to DLSS would be more important than answer to the better RT on NV cards. everyone use up scaling today and it can rally extent the life of a card and FSR is just not good enough... and lets not forget that RTX 50 probably will improve RT ofer RTX 40. so lets say they managed to be as good as 4070TI RT, they might still lose to a 5060 or 5070 (non ti) RT

[@yeahitsme4427]

Dont see the big problem with FSR, because there are some good implementations out there. Its incredible how people fuzz about some shimmering, or distant artifacts, when majority of times you are dont even aware they are there. People seem to focus on trying hard to find an issue, instead of actually playing, and enjoying a game. It could be better? Yes! It will be better? Surely, specially with 3.1 coming soon! It's the end of the world or turns a game unplayable or bad experience! Definitely NO!

[@auritro3903]

@@yeahitsme4427 true, I do feel that lot of FSR's criticism's can be invalidated since its mostly fine detail that isnt detected easily in real world scenarios. That being said, it doesn't exempt AMD from not improving FSR anymore, especially after the newer XeSS beats it in quality and can come pretty close to it in performance.

[@gametime4316]

@@yeahitsme4427 FSR is awful in so many cases. 1. character movement disocclusion ( like in god of war) 2. pixelation on moving objects like the arm on immortal of aveum or the character on Jedi Survivor. 3. flickering like in spider man and ton other games. we will see what will be improved in FSR 3.1, from what i saw is mainly a fix for "2".

[@ElysaraCh]

they already announced they're overhauling & improving FSR's upscaling with the next iteration

[@TomRocket-zo3hf]

Dude you really need to have basic English classes. You need to learn how to pronounce words correctly. For example, 'TURING' is actually pronounced as 'TEW-RING'. It is NOT pronounced as 'CHOO-RING'. Also, watch Avatar and see how they pronounce NAVI. It is NOT pronounced as 'NAH-VAY'. Similarly, NAPLES is pronounced as 'NAY-PULLS'. It is NOT pronounced as 'NEPAL'.

[@Felix00007]

I waiting to upgrade my i7 7700 and gt 710

[@jon-eg6be]

Hang in there buddy, you're allowed only when the youtubers give you the green light! (still holding onto my 4790k and gtx 970)

[@Shieftain]

Man, I think even the integrated graphics tech on the Ryzen 5 7600 is significantly stronger than the GT 710, so you could just get build a basic system with that CPU for now, and then pick up a 9800X3D along with a new GPU when those are out.

[@JackPecker911]

buy a 1070 for 50 bucks

[@omnivos]

Amd pricing will be in-line with Nvidia. 7900xtx 250 fps in 54 hr average Helldivers 2 everything turned on and maxed out except for motion blur. 3400x1440.

[@Violet-ui]

Perry sure not even the 7800X3D averages anywhere near 250fps in that game, so that's a lie

[@omnivos]

I'm running a 7800x3d and 64gb of 6000mhz ram. 250.5fps 5ms. Top 5% It's not a lie.

[@Violet-ui]

@@omnivos it is not possible maybe if the average includes the uncapped fps during menus, then yeah but in game average is going to be around 150 with a 7800x3d

[@omnivos]

@@Violet-ui 53 hours of play. I don't go to sleep with the game in menu mode.

[@fzksfans]

the end of 2024 will surely be tasty and spicy.....!!!

[@technite5360]

Hopefully just like Nividia in RDNA5 they will use Dedicated Ray Accelerator outside the CUs

[@1Grainer1]

RT doesn't matter, it's just an useless gimmick at this point, only visually good RT is Path Tracing, but performance hit is waay too big on both sides for me personally, best RT implementation is Arkham series (no RT, just well made lights, for people who would comment "there's no RT in arkham series")

[@gertjanvandermeij4265]

*RAY TRACING is still as USELESS, as it was in 2019 !* Waste of die space, I just want MORE RASTER !!! So FO with *GAY Tracing !*

[@KangoV]

When gaming, I really don't give a toss about Raytracing. I'll only take notice when GPUs have full Path Tracing with ZERO rasterisation (Ray Tracing is nowhere near as good as Path Tracing). In other words when a GPU creates the entire scene with ONLY Path Tracing (no gimmicks, shortcuts etc, like we have now).

[@blabla-fw9ix]

I don't even understand if they are going the midrange route why even focus on ray tracing ? It is so dumb . Give us the best price to performance you can , I couldn't care less about ray tracing on a damn midrange GPU .

[@masterlee1988]

@@blabla-fw9ix Yeah, price to performance is mainly what I care about for them. Hope they can do something with that.

[@Jeremy-WC]

1. because of marketing buy NVIDIA even if it is 20% slower because you can make it up with DLSS and it has better RT has hurt AMD. 2. Games will probably be built purely around RT on next gen because it will simplify the design process. While I agree with your sentiment we are sadly in the minority as AMD should have at least 2x the sales on the steam survey based on the performance.

[@blabla-fw9ix]

@@Jeremy-WC I wasn't exactly ,, blown away ,, with the 7000 series , if they made their midrange cards 100 dollars cheaper and high end like 200 less they would have dominated the market , this way they just let Nvidia beat them to a pulp .

[@blabla-fw9ix]

@@Jeremy-WC I guess but using DLSS on anything other than 1440p at the very least is just dumb . If AMD cannot compete with Nvidia with those other features and they can't , the only way to do so is to crush them in raster by a bigger margin than they have done so far and make sure they make their drivers stable and update them frequently . FSR is inferior to DLSS , their RT is inferior to Nvidia by a mile so their only way forward to getting any market is through raw power and VRAM for a much better price .

[@gibbit2k496]

What's the point of a game looking "pretty" if 90% of games that use raytracing are utter garbage in the gameplay department, the pointless chase for realistic graphics has ruined the AAA game industry and has increased game budgets to ridiculous amounts while producing mostly garbage, great looking garbage.

[@markmburu5306]

If the rumours are true 5060 an 8 GB card just stick with AMD the 5090 in my opinion should be a 32gb card

[@habibismail8542]

even amd beat nvidia in Ray Tracing nvidia fanboys will still hate amd gpu and never buy it they still living in 2013 with driver BSOD

[@DCMCOSPLAYdotCOM]

Yeah we need at least 10x the RT performance of the best offered today to even be remotely viable.

[@ivofixzone6410]

I see, controlled leaks are coming to generate hype for lack of upcoming RDNA4 performance. Do you still believe leakers , I do not.

[@rodiculous9464]

Rt is coming and no amount of bad faith arguments from amd owners and poverty card owners can stop it, remember game dev cycles take YEARS meaning there are already games being developed to utilize rt on next gen console hardware and once it runs on console hardware you will see it everywhere

[@NetworkNinja84]

Didn’t really learn anything about rdna4 ray tracing in the video lmao. I feel like these videos have less and less actually leaks or potential insight.

[@anonymous67856]

No, of course RTG hasn't perfected ray tracing

[@XX-ku7dn]

Are they gonna realse newer am5 mother boards?

[@OmahaGTP]

I hope so. Need some solid and obtainable non-ITX 2 slot memory boards that isn’t the HDV or the discontinued Gene.

[@LyndMavis]

Anderson Donna Miller Scott Lopez Sandra

[@nowherebrain]

raytracing still not important...the project I'm woking on(open world) has GI and reflections and zero ray tracing...tryed ray tracing but it's so much slower and not necessary...

[@ElysaraCh]

how exactly are you implementing accurate GI without raytracing

[@nowherebrain]

@@ElysaraCh I didn't say accurate...approximation, looks nearly as good but highly performant.

[@nowherebrain]

@@ElysaraCh best way I can explain it is like using a multidimensional array of cameras rendering to half bit depth cube maps and projection mapping that over the lighting pass..the lower the resolution the faster, but also visibly worse.

[@bcm-n7244]

I still think ray tracing, the real one that is 5-7 years away.

[@blackmennewstyle]

I will believe it when i see it 🤧

[@navisoul-oi8mo]

Still if intel offers best value for raster, I will go with that. RT is overrated, a couple of games where you notice RT is still within demo technology. Not for masses.

[@mimon6706]

Is Intel offering best value for raster? In my area the 6600 was always cheaper than the 750, and the 770 almost as expensive as a 6700XT. Not even starting to talk about their shortcomings in efficiency, stability and compatibility.

[@CHT1992]

Yeah i would like them to focus on improving RT and TDP on their GPUs next gen... Even if their high end GPU only matches the 4090/5080 more or less at a much better price point. My 1080ti is reaching its limits, i might stretch it another generation, which means RX 9000 or RTX 6000 might be the lineups for me, all depends on how things are by then. I have little hopes on nvidia doing good...

[@paulkendall6069]

If all the rumours I've heard are true AMD will make big gains to match Compition on Ray-Tracing with gains in rasterisation but will use slow Memory to keep costs down, I would also expect power to be kept low. But could AMD be tempted to launch GPUs later with faster Memory and higher power limits. Ray-Tracing lauch by Nvidia was 3gens too early with RTX20 series! It was done to justify space taken up in silicon and extra cost of cards. Ray-Tracing was not ready as not only was the Software along way from ready it's impact on frame rate was way too high which has tarnished Ray-Tracing.

[@moto6981]

Ray tracing can only be loved if RX 8600 XT releases with a price of £200-£250 with at least RTX 4070 Ti Super level RT performance

[@famousfighter2310]

That’s really high. I would say 3070 ti performance would be more appropriate. (Damn autocorrect messed me up)

[@ricco123tube]

The days of £200 cards are long gone.

[@tringuyen7519]

How much are RTX 4070 Tỉ going for in the UK? So AMD has to sell you RTX 4070Ti performance @ $500 US below the price of a RTX 4070Ti? Why?

[@jeofthevirtuoussand]

the rx 8600 would be the same as the rx 7800xt (or around a base 4070 ) i think it is more realistic imo

[@nicane-9966]

Delusional is not enough to describe this post.

[@MelissaHall-k8r]

Boyle Highway

[@drkevorkian2508]

I'll believe it when I see it. The same thing happened with FSR2. People claimed it caught up to DLSS, but over time it became obvious that they really hadn't and even XESS was better.

[@HafeezBlackLeg]

let's just say it is 0.75 of 5090.... that's pretty much more than 4090 or on par with the said GPU

[@bes12000]

Don't care what Sony does, their last underhanded bait and switch BS move they made makes me less inclined to get another console ill just wait for them to port things to the PC. I AM interested to see if AMD can pull off better RT though.

[@davidandrew6855]

What bait and switch are you referencing?

[@bes12000]

@@davidandrew6855 The stellar blade incident with promoting the game as fully uncensored to get people to buy it and then a day 1 patch with censorship, I got the disk version and thats not censored, regardless if it was minor or not, false advertising, and the games M rated so it never needed to be censored int he first place, but Sony has a history of censorship in the past years, anyone who supports censorship, removal of choice, removal of free expression in any media or art forms, and removal of free speech are part of the problem and ill not get any more games from that platform or buy any more consoles.

[@elilopez8844]

Gamers just want: RPG 60fps Shooter 120fps *PC elite RPG 120 fps Shooters 240 fps

[@blahorgaslisk7763]

Raytracing being very important for gamers? Heck I only know one person who consider raytracing important. He's my friends 14 year old son who want to use raytracing in Minecraft. No other game was important though, just Minecraft. So he bought a new gaming computer with a 7800 X3D, 32 GB memory and a RTX 4060 Ti to support Minecraft 1080p with raytracing. That's the only one I heard who considered RT important...

[@rodiculous9464]

Ah yes the "no one in my immediate circle of non tech savvy casual gamers uses it so it doesn't matter' fallacy

[@nukedathlonman]

Maybe...I still see it as more a tech preview with too heavy of a penalty (even though I have quite a few games that support it).

[@aberkae]

The best return on investment in terms of performance hit for visual quality improvement imo is rt global illuminations especially with hdr. The screen pops vs rasterization ambient occlusio

[@jacquesroux7362]

Leakers peddling bullshit and you repeat it. How many of your predictions has ever come true?

[@alistermunro7090]

There's still a few flat earthers out there watching snooker on a black and white TV. They just can't see RT.

[@shahin8569]

Rdna in boring

[@ddogwr83]

I cant get over the fact that i can get 200fps in a game, turn on rt, and it drops to 80

[@PineyJustice]

And the best part is, visually there is almost no difference unless you run around looking for them. Well, aside from the singular most visible thing with RT, the fuzzies it introduces.

[@viniqf]

@@PineyJustice You can objectively measure the differences, especially in games that implement some form of RTGI, reflections, shadows... It's a night and day difference in some cases like Cyberpunk or Witcher 3. Some games have horrid implementations that basically do nothing. Those would be Resident Evil 4 Remake and the like, where there are barely any RT effects, and the ones that exist are gimped into oblivion. On RE4, the actual RT reflections run at 1/4 of the resolution and look worse than just using normal cubemaps, for example.

[@PineyJustice]

@@viniqf Cyberpunk has horrible raster lighting and reflections, witcher looks bad with either raster or rt. Unreal 5 without any RT has far better lighting and reflections than either have with RT enabled. When a game is pushed as hard in raster, high res cubemaps, expensive lighting math, it looks just as good or better than an RT implementation. Lets look at helldivers 2, the atmostpheric lighting, volumetrics and reflections are some of the best I've seen in any game, no RT being used. RT was kindof a neat thing 4 years ago, but it's like x86 vs arm, RT may look ever so slightly better, but the competition is improving too, it's not a static target.

[@sydneyatutahi3927]

Sound's good 🔥 You have an Amazing day to Paul 🤙🏾

[@HeirofCarthage]

RT isn't important to me at all. It feels like a shiny object to get gamers to pay more. However, I would love to see AMD try to be competitive with RT, so Nvidia is forced to compete continuously. If RT ever gets to the point where FPS isn't destroyed, then it might be more interesting. Otherwise, I am always going to choose frame rates over fancy shadows and reflections. Upscaling, on the other hand, is an awesome tech and hoping it is focused on more than RT. Would love to see every game include FSR and DLSS.

[@trenchcoats4life891]

I actually really like RT but mainly only on 2 games: The Ascent and Cyberpunk 2077. Those two games being bedazzled in neon lights and glow seem to complement ray tracing really well. Every other game I have noticed minimal effects for a massive hit.

[@blabla-fw9ix]

@@trenchcoats4life891 What is the point of RT on a midrange GPU ? If this is the route they are taking and avoiding high end then they should make it the best price to performance it can be in raster within reason of course . I would much rather they make the card much better for 500 bucks with shitty ray tracing then make it 10% better with better ray tracing .

[@xephyrxero]

RT global illumination is the real game changer of all the bespoke RT features, moreso even than reflections IMO. Software solutions like Lumen are pretty damn decent, but with the light leak and other artifacts, hardware RT enabled Lumen has a clear improvement in visual quality

[@ElysaraCh]

in due course RT will replace raster, but it's going to require low end GPUs to have *playable* RT performance which is ALMOST there. the 7600 and 4060 have playable RT performance at 1080p/low. That's what will signal to developers that hardware is ready for a ground-up RT implementation in games, which makes a remarkable difference. Look at Metro Exodus RT vs Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition. Enhanced looks significantly better.

[@blabla-fw9ix]

@@ElysaraCh So we should all buy high end GPU's and sell our kidneys so we can play on higher resolutions because of RT ? Or will 30 fps be the norm again because of RT ? Yeah real great ........ more bs to squeeze money out of us . RT runs like cr@p on most GPU's , even the mighty 4090 can't have 60 fps on 4k ultra in all games let alone low end GPU's .

[@Maggpieify]

No. Most people dont care about raytracing. Most people are still on gtx 1650 and 1660s. MOST people by FAR cant even activate RT. A single digit % of PC owners have hardware capable of doing RT at all. And amongst those only high end gaming enthusiasts care about it or use it. That said I think its awesome tech, I like it a lot, I would love if it would get integrated into low end cheaper products in a performant enough way to be usable for mass market adoption instead of being enthusiast only. Who knows when or if that will happen, but saying MOST gamers or people care about RT is a demonstrably false and absurd statement.

[@blabla-fw9ix]

Of course , sure it makes more sense on a high end card but midrange just why ? Instead of making the cards better price to perf they chose this ? If they make the cards a little batter in raster and much better in RT it will be a massive flop and stupid on their part .

[@xephyrxero]

Most all developers care about RT, and the gamers using that class of gear will always be an afterthought. If they can't afford decent hardware then they probably can't afford your game either

[@xephyrxero]

​@@blabla-fw9ixraster is quickly on its way to obsolescence now, and will only be used in 2D games in 5-10 years. The transition has been slow, but it's only accelerating. RT will soon be the default option

[@blabla-fw9ix]

@@xephyrxero Unless they can make the fps not drop in the dumpster I can't see people really be open to playing and buying those games . Those games are going to suffer if RT makes the game sh!t the bed which will hurt the companies that are making said games . I don't think that the RT is here yet as a mainstream thing , in 5-10 years maybe but at that time it should improve massively , that is like 2-4 gens of GPU's from now on .

[@mattzun6779]

The need for raytracing is pretty much the same as the need for a certain amount of VRAM Most developer managers and CEOs care about consoles and do ports of wildly different quality to PC. Games used to run fine on 8GB cards until the consoles started doing things that would require more than 8GB of VRAM on a PC. Until consoles get good raytracing at playable frame rates, ray tracing will be an afterthought and significant effort will be made to make light/no raytracing look good. Once consoles get good raytracing without a massive performance hit, ray tracing will be required because devs won't be allowed the time to make light/no ray tracing look good.

[@Six_Gorillion]

Yes of course, this will finally be the generation where AMD beats Nvidia. Just like every time it didn't happen before.

[@audiojunkie5435]

Best way to run raytracing is to downscale to 720p, upscale to 1080p, throw in a 4090, select ultra performance on the upscale tech and sit 5 meters away for that lossless clarity and 60fps. It's what I do anyway.

[@skewty]

Agreed. That's a long way of saying not even NViidia cards like the 4090 are fast enough for modern (4k w/o DLSS/FSR) rendering of games with RT enabled.

[@theendoftheline]

lol "thats what I do anyway" you mean not understanding downscaling and then running dlss and calling it raytracing... cool cool

[@audiojunkie5435]

Oh no, I understand downscaling. I'm quite the tech nerd: I have my microwave overclocked on the display panel; there's no ghosting or latency between switching numbers so I can time it exactly to my preferred time under heat etc. You have to downscale before you upscale, so DLSS or FSR to 720p from 4k or whatever and then upscale it to 1080p because it applies x2 the sharpening opposed to just downscaling and having 80% applied. So you effectively get 160% sharpening. Not many people know that you can do that but that effectively makes things pin sharp at 720p so you can raytrace and it looks like 4k if that makes sense?

[@theendoftheline]

@@audiojunkie5435 lol no, what you are describing involves 0 downscaling, and now you dont even mention RT so, carry on lolcow

[@theendoftheline]

@@audiojunkie5435 "not many people know that you can" use an upscaler to upscale... mmmhmmmmm

[@dante19890]

they wont catch up to nvidia tho. But still gonna price it a few dollars less XD

[@Gattberserk]

If the 288 CU GPU monster is true, they might, just by brute force.

[@blabla-fw9ix]

@@Gattberserk It might be true but it wont get released so what is the point of it ? It exists most likely but if it sees no release then what is the point of it ?

[@auritro3903]

@@Gattberserk apparently its not gonna be released until RDNA 5

[@blabla-fw9ix]

@Noodles1922 That depends on the price , If they make a 8800XT that is like a 7900xt+ for 500 bucks I think it will be worth it , that is it least the rumor I heard . If not then you are correct , I wouldn't get too excited for Nvidia either , while the cards will be more powerful from the rumors I have seen the VRAM is still going to be awful , the same as it was on the original 40 series , with the only exception possibly being the kidney priced 5090 . So yeah damned if you do and damned if you don't while having a crappy pc needing an upgrade .

[@nicane-9966]

​@Noodles1922if its worth or not depends entirelly on what you are running now... For example people with 6600s,3060s would be massive upgrade for cheap if 500dls 7900xt perf is true.

[@BastyTHz]

amd increase L2 on their cpu but why not do it on gpu, nvidia use this approch and rtx 4000 get insane perf from that. let see if perf+feature+price can win over nvidia

[@AshtonCoolman]

They can't increase the unit cost of their GPUs and offer them at a competitive price. They won't sell and the AIBs wouldn't make any profit if they did that. Nvidia can because they know suckers will buy $1200 to $2000 GPUs 😂

[@26Guenter]

They did in RDNA 3. They increased all cache levels except L3.

[@kazansky22]

I basically only play DCS in VR so no ray tracing for me. All about that maximum raster performance and vram.

[@Swecan76]

April fools is already over you're too late. RDNA 4 is basically Polaris again. Weak GPUs that barely will be mid-range. Their RT even if TOP GPUs wouldn't come near Nvidia. AMD hasn't held up any hype since before Fury days. Not once since then have they come out swinging and winning.

[@mimon6706]

You are too late for april fools.

[@Swecan76]

@@mimon6706 Every day of AMD in GPU is April fools.

[@zdenek75a]

When?

[@viniqf]

Being honest, my biggest issue with this kind of video, or anything hyping up AMD's RT capabilities is that them improving it doesn't mean much when Nvidia still absolutely crushes them. Let's say RDNA4 matches a 4090 in RT performance (I certaintly doubt it), Nvidia will just come out with many GPUs that massively gap it in performance again. AMD needs to innovate in another front, focus on something else, and try to introduce a new feature that Nvidia can't compete with, otherwise they'll just be stuck playing catch-up with Nvidia until the end of time.

[@skychaos87]

RDNA3.5 in PS5 Pro has about 3x more RT performance than RDNA2. If so, its likely that RDNA4 should have conservatively at least 2x the RT performance of RDNA3. And since RDNA4 is only mid range, it should have RT performance around the 4080 super. If they had a high end RDNA4 card, it should easily match or surpass 4090. nVidia Blackwell will certainly be ahead once again, but nonetheless, the RT performance gap between RX and RTX would be much smaller and closer than ever.

[@tringuyen7519]

If RDNA4 offers RTX 4070Ti performance @ $550, it will sell like hotcakes. Nvidia forgot about the value conscious gamers long time ago.

[@masterlee1988]

@@tringuyen7519 Yeah I would buy one at that price.

[@xephyrxero]

But this is the whole reason this video is important. The incremental updates that led to RDNA3 are never going to let them catch up. AMD needs a radical redesign to jump two full generations ahead if they ever want a chance of leap frogging Nvidia

[@123TheCloop]

@@xephyrxero AMD are not two generations behind though....... when they dropped RDNA 2 with 60xx series they beat 20xx series Turing RT performance by a good 30-50% and that was 1 generation late to the market. with 70xx series for RDNA 3 they have basically managed to be just behind or match Ampere in some tiers of GPUs for RT for performance again while technically coming to the market 1 generation late on RT implementation from its initial addition to RNDA 2. Im not even sure where you get they are 2 gens behind because they simply are not when you look at there performance and date introductions. AMD only arguably have to match 40 series nvidia GPUs RT to keep up and atm RT is practically still unplayable even on 40 series if you have anything less than a 4080 otherwise you gotta use DLSS+FG to get even remotely a good experience.

[@kamgaming4454]

Not believing anything till a week or two before release when AMD confirm specs because i don't want to be deceived by lies online which will probably be October-December 2024

[@26Guenter]

AMD already has "Nvidia class RT" as their top card is around or better than Nvidia's 70 Ti card. What AMD needs is equivalent comparable performance at each tier.

[@tryharder1053]

Amds top card is equivalent to the 2080ti in RT turn on GL reflections shadows AO water caustics at full resolution and 2 rays and bounces per source and tell me what happens next

[@26Guenter]

@@tryharder1053 7900 XTX is faster unless you're referring to the 6900 XT.

[@tryharder1053]

@@26Guenter If you're serious about wanting to experience cutting edge raytracing I wouldn't even consider AMD. When games really push RT hard you get 2080Ti performance from the 7900XTX, not 3090Ti like people keep saying. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mYTUY4qldrenr68

[@26Guenter]

@@tryharder1053 If you're serious about cutting edge RT then you need a 4090 which can't hit 60 fps in Cyberpunk with RT at 4K ultra with out DLSS. You can provide plenty of scenarios that tank performance both brands. No doubt Nvidia has the performance crown but most people aren't going for cutting edge RT.

[@tryharder1053]

@@26Guenter still doesn’t change the fact that 7900xtx has 200% higher compute and embarrassingly matches a 2080ti in RT anyone with a 4070 or higher will have a flawless path tracing experience

[@gameindustryinsider6450]

Road to PS5Pro but more technical please! ❤

[@ctjmaughs]

Is AMD NOW one generation behind Nvidia for RT.

[@nicane-9966]

Like always been, 7000 catched 3000, these 8000 may catch 4000 wich tbh would be good enough to finally activate it

[@ItsDeeno69]

Amd on every new generatio Our rt is 50% better than previous gen Consumers: finally their rt is better than nvidia Nvidia new gen : 50% faster than amd new gen Amd : silent

[@ygny1116]

I am more excited to see how Blackwell will handle ray tracing, hardware BVH builder, dynamic registers allocation are essential for good ray tracing performance.

[@Oceanborn712]

I don't care about the PS5 Pro but a GPU as powerful at rasterization with significantly stronger ray-tracing is exactly what I want. I don't need more rasterization power rightt now but both my RX 6900 XT in my game console replacement PC under the TV and the RX 7900 XTX in my main rig just go to their knees when I turn on the tiny bit of ray-tracing offered by Persona 3 Reload. Granted that's at 4k but the bit of ray-traced reflections isn't too much to ask to run well at 60 FPS for I think. Granted, it'd be off anyway because it syncs with Steam Deck and the ROG Ally that replaced the Steam Deck and those definitely couldn't handle it and wouldn't be expected to, but still... come on xD

[@Rafael-dm9mm]

What? They always said: "who cares about Ray Tracing" and then follow the same path? I guess they wouldn't makes their followers happy, judging by most AMD reviwers, they almost all times make benchmarks RTX OFF. Now I want to see if they would be able to provide the same technology at lower prices.

[@avynian]

I think RT is still just a gimmick for lightning effects. Not worth to care much about it yet. I just hope AMD will not abandon their current design approach. Which is more elegant than Nvidia's in my opinion.

[@Mike80528]

You know what looks absolutely amazing with its details and lighting depth? The *real world* which we are more than happy to ignore...

[@ElysaraCh]

the fuck's this got to do with anything

[@theanglerfish]

at the beginning of RT i thought nah this will not be so important to me...then i bought A770 LE and Control game so i test it just for benchmarking but man that looks so good but there are games which will look weird if they implement RT especially anime style games so i prefer ambient oclusion in these...but hoping for the best from AMD new RT umm...tech?! because i don't buy their fire hazard cards well maybe Battlemage will replace my dying 3080

[@arenzricodexd4409]

those northlight engine was built with RT in mind. disable RT and some scene will look weird in Control or Alan Wake 2.

[@theanglerfish]

@@arenzricodexd4409 oh i did not notice it i will try :D

[@Oryon7]

I'll believe it when I see it. It's not like Nvidia's tech will remain stagnant. Of course, it's not an impossible task, but Nvidia are already several steps ahead, especially when factoring in the software side - an area Nvidia has been constantly making RT improvements. So even if AMD drops some really competitive tech, they will require some time to perfect software/algorithm improvements that best work with their hardware. It's a tall order! What they've got going for them is; their hardware functionality is more open to the development community, so if they can nail the hardware portion, the software improvements(or at least the ideas driving them) can come from just about anyone. They certainly have a lot of work cut out.

[@blahorgaslisk7763]

Nvidia may have better RT. But the big thing in my opinion is that they have a better total package of utilities and drivers. Sure AMD has improved a lot, but even the latest cards and drivers have som things where AMD can't match. The Broadcast utility is one of them. Sure it's just noise cancellation for audio and some video tools, but it's something AMD can't match. And when it comes to recording the video Nvidia also is the better option. The encoding is better which means that at matching video quality Nvidia can achieve it at a lower bitrate. So the video files are smaller but the quality is the same or better. This might be details but the thing is that most of the details turns out to be in favor of Nvidia. Now we have a new competitor in the form of Intel with their graphics cards. Their first gen started with a whimper but had cured by quite a lot over time. The initial drivers were total crap compared, and even now they are a bit ditzy even if they are very much better. With any kind of luck the Battlemage generation will be a lot better and able to match AMD and Nvidia from day one. As for video recording they will be at least as good as Nvidia. Even now the encoder used by intel is excellent. So while I doubt AMD will be able to do better than Nvidia I hope Intel will be able to take some market share and help put some pressure on the old players. Well Intel is an old player i a way, but it was what, 25 years?, since they released their first 3D card, i750 I think it was called. They scrapped the project after that first card. Lets hope they stay in business a bit longer this time.

[@avynian]

@@blahorgaslisk7763 Nvidia has no better drivers. I wonder when this fairy tale can finally be buried. It's more like the opposite. I have to work a lot with Linux systems. Nvidia's Linux drivers are horrible. AMD has much better Linux drivers. On Windows there is not much difference at all. AMD got everything you think they don't have, like noise suppression, video tools, comparable or even better encoding quality, etc. But video encoding on a GPU is stupid anyway. For best encoding quality you still should use a proper CPU.

[@blahorgaslisk7763]

@@avynian Agree about software encoding being able to perform better quality, but if you are recording on the same machine that you are playing then you have to encode at real time, and then hardware encoders are way better. And no, the AMD encoder is not able to retain the same video quality at the same bit rate as Intel and Nvidia encoders are able to. This is no myth. As for drivers, I don't really care about Linux. This is me personally. I have worked a lot with Linux and was a Unix administrator before I learned to use Windows 386. Yes that was the Big version of Windows 286. so this was about 35 or 40 years back. But frankly for a personal machine I can't be bothered to consider Linux today. Personal opinion, not trying to claim it's not important for others. But I do remember that the AMD drivers is a lot better than whatever Nvidia has dropped for linux. Now as to driver quality in Windows AMD has improved a lot. Back when the first RDNA cards were released the drivers were almost as bad as the first public drivers Intel released for the ARC Alchemist cards. That's not so far away I'm able to ignore it. Mean while I have not really had a driver problem with Nvidia under windows. I remember one driver that did, something, can't remember what, but it was solved in one or two days by an update. I don't know what their current test environment looks like, but about ten or twenty years back I remember Nvidia was using a test farm with a few hundred machines running windows. They would batch install driver releases on all of them, run tests and check for problems. All machines were different from each other where it came to exact hardware to make the test environment diverse like the machines among the end users. I'd guess they have improved this since then to keep the quality testing reasonably current. I can't imagine that they just shut something like this down when they had developed the process. But that's mostly guessing. Remains that I've heard a lot more problems from users with AMD GPU's than from those running Nvidia. And as I used to do RMA support for a computer company that was a lot of users.

[@wawaweewa9159]

devs need to optimise ray tracing in their games

[@blahorgaslisk7763]

Problem is RT is incredibly complex and cost a lot of computations. Read up on RT and you will see what I mean. The RT you see in games are faking it pretty hard to get the frame rate as high as possible. Compare this to raytracing in professional 3D applications. We are not talkig real time render but minutes to hours per frame. Real raytracing is nasty expensive. The games that has "good" RT if "good" means low slowdown they use more limited RT implementations. More parts of the scene is rendered conventionally while only a small set of operations for RT is used. So "optimized" RT isn't really all that good. We need better hardware to render RT faster. Sad to have to say it. Hardware support has to be improved.

[@skewty]

No. Video card mfrs need to make cards fast enough for proper RT. Optimization is limited.

[@wawaweewa9159]

@@skewty optimization is only limited if they have optimized as much as humanly possible

[@sermerlin1]

I just feel like with GPUs... AMD always kind of falls short of living up to the rumors... Like just a tad but enough to disappoint.

[@auritro3903]

Usually, AMD tends to stick true to their actual claims, but most of the times these outrageous rumours and claims keep floating around, building up too much hype, which is what ends up causing people to be disappointed. Can't wait for AMD fanboys to be disappointed in AMD after it doesnt deliver 50% IPC that all these stupid leak and rumour channels keep spouting out.

[@mimon6706]

AMD isn't responsible for the crazy rumors floating around. Nvidia never keeping the promises they made publically is a different story though.

[@NovaDoll]

First❤

[@sarthakbaghel3053]

bot

[@darthdadious6142]

Until hardware = software = mass usage, RT is just a gimmick. Hopefully next release of hardware makes RT viable, then we just need mass usage of RT to justify spending $$$$$$

[@NameUserOf]

It won't. The biggest pro of RT is cutting dev time. However since the majority of GPUs won't be able to handle it, it's an additional work for them and higher end GPUs. And if devs won't go Tomb Raider route and cripple regular version so that RT looked better in comparison then we still won't see any meaningful difference in the image quality for a game where you're always on the move and shoot around. And since some games are cell shaded they don't even need RT. So GPU makers will have to include both technologies whether they like it or not. Similar to how old instructions in x86 architecture aren't really needed anymore but both AMD and Intel still keep those for software compatibility. Legacy never dies easy. Does anyone remember 3D monitors/oculars for games, Physx flying garbage and tearable cloths? All of it is pretty dead. If Nvidia would open up Physx for everyone then RT wouldn't get as popular as physics can drastically change gameplay experience and run on both CPUs and GPUs there would be no resources left to waste on taxing rendering technic. They could've use RT for enemy AI but they don't do it instead they're just using it for rendering, it's a waste of resources.

[@cajampa]

Who cares, we all know Blackwell will raise the level to new heights leaving AMD in the dust again. Also RDNA 4 = no high end. So they gave up before they even tried like the last generations.

[@stuartedwards6996]

Not everyone is silly enough to pay the high price of the top end cards.

[@masterlee1988]

RDNA 4 can only succeed if price to performance ratio is good for the gpus, otherwise...

[@tringuyen7519]

@@masterlee1988You’re welcome to buy the RTX 5090 @ $2500 scalper price. That’s way too high for me.

[@cajampa]

​ @stuartedwards6996 So what makes you think Nvidia will only release high end Blackwell card? That makes no sense dude. Yes Nvidia will win the high end, but because AMD is missing features and RT performance again and most are just tired of missing out. AMD has a LONG way to go.

[@nipa5961]

Who cares about Blackwell? Nobody needs another 50% more performance for again doubling prices. RDNA4 could get interesting though.

[@lolmao500]

Meanwhile rumors coming out of nintendo and nvidia says that the Switch 2 will be around 4.5 teraflops... so even weaker than PS4... and this will be supposed to last until like 2031+... nintendo is such a joke.

[@arenzricodexd4409]

PS4 is only at 1.8Tflops. PS4 pro at 4.2 Tflop. if switch at 4.5Tlop it already faster than PS4 pro lol.

[@RX7800XTBenchmarks]

​@@arenzricodexd4409 that's still a joke.

[@blabla-fw9ix]

@@RX7800XTBenchmarks Yep it absolutely is and a lot of their games can be emulated too so why even bother with it .

[@tringuyen7519]

@@arenzricodexd4409PS5 Pro has a 30 TOPS NPU as well as 72CU RDNA3.5. You won’t be playing GTA6 on your Nintendo Switch 2!

[@RX7800XTBenchmarks]

@@blabla-fw9ix Nintendo has always been in their own lane doing their own thing. But times are changing, I think it will be more harder to sell a console now that is still doing 30fps at 1080p for $400-500. Nintendo need to embrace emulators rather than suing them and shutting them down.

[@beachboy_boobybuilder]

Good job I skipped RDNA3. It was an over priced joke.

[@Peppy34420]