Ammon Hillman’s ABSURD Take on Jesus in the Garden Is Dead Wrong

[@MythVisionPodcast]

To all my non-Ammonite viewers. Do you notice the wild conspiracies and wildness in the comment section? Many of them act as though I'm trying to distance myself from Ammon... have they stopped to think about what they're saying? I don't need to distance myself from someone who I'm not close to, nor record with. Most Ammonites will disparage anything Kipp or really every scholar on this topic, including his mentor Classicist Carl Ruck have to say. These are people who will mock us or defend Ammon and his interpretations all hidden behind the Greek while not actually knowing the Greek themselves. Why is it every scholar who knows the Greek doesn't buy his interpretation? Why isn't the Roman-Jewish war the lens Ammon is reading this through? Ive even been called an apologist for Jesus 😂. These people are honestly tripping on that purple pirate juice. Not gonna lie, fam, it looks like a cult, talks like a cult, smells like a cult, and its leaders name is Ammon. Here's is Allison's commentary on the issue with Barabbas. In the video I think I said Mark had the name Jesus Barabbas in the earliest manuscripts, but it was Matthew. "Εἶχον δὲ τότε δέσμιον ἐπίσημον λεγόμενον Βαραββᾶν. Mark 15:7 is very different: "And among the rebels in prison, who had committed murder in the insurrection, there was a man called Barabbas." Matthew makes several changes: he adds his favorite word, tóte ("then"), introduces the characterization of Barabbas as epísēmon ("notable"), and deletes the reference to the insurrection. Regarding this omission, Raymond E. Brown (Death of the Messiah, p. 797) suggests that "Matthew does not repeat Mark's reference to a riot, perhaps reflecting a post-Jewish-Revolt sensitivity that the memory of Jesus should not be associated even indirectly with political disturbance." Alternatively, it is plausible that Matthew no longer understood what was meant by "the insurrection." The most striking change, however, is the addition of a double name: "Jesus Barabbas," which heightens the drama by forcing the crowd to choose between two men named "Jesus."

[@davidfrisken1617]

I would like your evidence that second century Christians were the same as first century Christians. This seems to go against the consensus. Further, it was odd that there was no push back on Kipps belief that Classicists(Such as Dennis) should stay out of Biblical criticism.

[@healzbichgaming]

@@MythVisionPodcast womp womp.

[@chsgamondo7557]

@@MythVisionPodcastthe crowd wanted jesus dead more than Barabbas who was also a pirate

[@davidfrisken1617]

"Why is it every scholar who knows the Greek doesn't buy his interpretation?" Really? Every single one? Even those who have never been near KZbin? How do you know this? It appears the criticism is based on a strawman where Ammon claims historicity for the gospel stories. When in fact he is describing tropes associated with cults of the time. The only position to hold with integrity, is I don't know.

[@chsgamondo7557]

@ can you name three?

[@davidbennett1035]

The biggest issue here remains to me, how could anyone read Mark and come out on the other end saying, "oh this is a real history of things that really happened, involving people who actually lived"? Its written anonymously by someone intent on telling a magical story including characters he would have never known, and providing private details no one would have ever been privy to if the events happened as suggested. Trying to tell a story of what really happened by appealing to this story just seems silly to me.

[@MennoNoMoreAmbulanceGirl]

Don’t you know the entire Bible is the inspired word of God and it’s perfectly cohesive and never contradicts itself.

[@taylortoolen4038]

This is why Bible scholars and Christians cannot debate Ammon well, they have a mental block, a wall, that says, the Bible is different than any other book from that time because it’s real. We all know it’s not and it’s not possible to be completely factual but Christians believe it with such conviction they literally make their brains defy logic and what’s written down.

[@tookie36]

It’s crazy to me that people will talk about genesis and say “you have to understand the genre”. Which is mythology of course but they call it allegory or something to make it not sound like other religions. But then they get to mark and they say it’s a historical? It’s clearly allegory. The naked man running away would be a symbol that you can give up everything but if you do not give up your life and follow Jesus you haven’t received the gospel

[@davidfrisken1617]

Yep. According to Justin martyr the "Gospels" were written for entertainment and would be read if there was time because the congregation enjoyed the stories.

[@skullbong]

ok so why make up the really weird stuff about jesus in the first place if he was such a great guy?

[@mondayschool]

Dennis needs to debate Ammon...Kipp says at 7min mark- which says it all-"I am not a new testament scholar this is not my field...I don't know the deeply nuanced positions about how this text functions within the literature and I don't think you even have to..."

[@TheDanEdwards]

How about you. Of what are you a scholar?

[@mondayschool]

@@TheDanEdwards hey Dan.. I'm fine, how about you? Sounds like you think I should be a scholar to make a comment on the video? If so then that is a non sequitur. BTW I didn't say Ammon was correct, just that Kipp is only giving his opinion which is fine except he later acts with a false authority after admitting he is not an expert.

[@adamzandarski8933]

And he says it’s so smugly too

[@BDnevernind]

He is a massive hypocrite for doing this.

[@virginiafisher1266]

Arguing over myths. Virtually pointless but entertaining as hell.

[@steviangarcia1583]

Wonder how Kipp feels about Numbers 31:13-18? Moses collects virgins every time they pillage a village. Didn’t Jesus follow Mosaic law?

[@jacobpast5437]

1. You are confusing Moses' behavior with Mosaic law. 2. There is obviously a strict seperation in Mosaic law on how fellow Hebrews are to be treated and how foreigners (strangers) are to be treated. 3. Read yourself the passage in Numbers you quote. You will realize what Jesus would have done with a young b... if he was using it as a paradigm for his behavior.

[@steveharris1974]

I don't know what the earliest Greek text that the Gospel of Mark was translated from says, I don't know classical Greek, but Dr. Hillman doesn't say the translation is controversial, he's saying the original Greek contains the controversial information, and what you are reading, that may refute his claims if it had been accurately translated, was wrongly translated and possibly sanitised deliberately. You can't use a wrongly translated version of the text to refute the original text. I can't say Bonjour in French means pineapple, because someone translated it that way once.

[@clairehann2681]

It is very hard for them to grasp

[@huguesdepayens807]

That's literally what the hammond guy is doing

[@coliv2]

The explanation is this: Derek is very worried that “professional scholars” will not want to participate in his show, and they regularly ask to purge some people they don’t like. That’s why he’s making a point of trying to distance himself from Dr Amon.

[@Bolden47]

this is exactly the case he is sold out and captured because he has to make money.. he doesn’t want to keep working his construction job so he is trying to toe the line

[@ELC-h9b]

It certainly appears that way. I dont agree with everything Hillman says but I think he is raising the bar. His more extreme view points will push people to explore new ideas.

[@billytalty]

Yes, that makes total sense in light of his conversation with Richard Miller. 🤔 Y'all are just apologists.

[@Bolden47]

@@ELC-h9b i hear you.. it sounds extreme but anyone who’s done psychedelics and takes these scholars seriously can start to see, man.. this stuff may have all been drug induced trances and cults

[@daisymazie21]

Why did you put "professional scholars" in quotes? Is a Ph.D not enough for you?

[@AyaGumede]

Why doesn't Kipp just debate Ammon. Plus how is a Hebrew scholar disputing a Philologist who specializes in Ancient Greek about Ancient Greek text? Make it make sense please MythVision

[@bennyhinrichs]

Ammon is a steamroller, which is productive for a theatrical win in a live debate, but not an intellectual win (esp. for the audience)

[@DrKippDavis]

Because the mistakes Ammon makes with this New Testament text are elementary. It's embarrassing for him.

[@Allothersweretakenn]

@@DrKippDavis I love you both so I hope yall talk. You guys started this movement of bringing biblical scholarship to the mainstream. We need more discussions ♥️

[@The_Raven_River]

Im actually confused now. Didnt these two already have a debate, where Kipp got absolutely lambasted? So, what, now GI is the ammon supporter and his cousin channel mythvision is the ammon detractor? This is some reality television drama.

[@Bolden47]

they scared of losing control of the narrative because they’re channel is bigger and they’d have to adjust all their scholarship

[@Dreamspore]

Odd to argue with so much ad hominem, but that comes with devoted faith and people arguing beliefs. You don’t have to have cancer to study it. Some follow reason, not personalities.

[@Ian_622]

I’m excited for Lady Babylon tonight to see his reaction. LMAO you guys rock 🤘 but it’s a public park at 4 AM ha ha I’m sorry Derek. He gets me every time with that but always a fabulous job.

[@anthonycarlisle6184]

Yeah, there's been a couple hillman hater videos past week, I'm curious too if he'll acknowledge them, he generally does it seems. But he's been focused on that wes fellow.

[@Ian_622]

@ yeah I would rather see him go after Wes. Because Wes’s busy doing his victory lap as he says and Derek even asked Wes to do a show and he said he was busy for the whole year of 2025 and that’s the same thing that Wes told Danny Jones because. Ammon wanted to debate him on his podcast. But yeah, everybody’s going after Ammon now because he got so big. I follow him for entertainment because he’s just so funny and out of it.

[@pattern001]

Ohhhh boyyyy... Lady Babylon live is gonna be on fire toniiiight 🔥🔥🔥ohhhh gaaawwwwd!

[@joefilter2923]

I’ll have to rewatch The Ninth Gate to see if I can spot Ammon on that tarot deck.

[@kpunkt.klaviermusik]

Am I the only one who thinks the common reasoning why Jesus was sentenced to death is much more absurd than this one. Besides that - I don't think he even existed.

[@CCmagee3]

Yeah, Jesus is absolutely a story. Never existed.

[@dan13770]

What, sedition?

[@boxerfencer]

The Greek word "lestes" (ληστής) has several meanings, both literal and figurative. Literally, it primarily means: * Robber * Bandit * Brigand These definitions refer to someone who steals or robs, often using force or violence. Figuratively, it can also be used to describe: * A revolutionary * A rebel This usage is less common and often depends on the context. It can refer to someone who opposes authority or the status quo, particularly through violent means. The word "trafficker" is not a direct translation of "lestes." However, in some contexts, it could be used to describe someone who illegally trades goods or people, which might involve some criminal activity, similar to the actions of a robber or bandit. It's important to note that the specific meaning of "lestes" can vary depending on the context and the time period.

[@williamcody3415]

and at no time means I am not king of the jews..... why were they there to arrest him again? in the story? what was the author trying to explain? cuz this is a fictional acount, not like a biographer was there with a real person taking notes..... and knowing what the real person was thinking and also telling what happened behind closed doors where no one else was allowed ( no jesus students or biographer..... meaning this is a fictional story. authors had an idea in mind... and did any other authors think jesus was a human trafficker selling kids? dont know but maybe reading act of thomas shows some other fiction writers of the day had that idea as he has jesus not only SELL a disciple but write a bill of sale. pretty clear that author thought so around the same time. and also Mary was given to the temple at age 3 .. then sold of to joseph when she was 12 probably because she was now of child bearing age... the whole gospel of james story... but to say human trafficker is not in the bible when the whole thing is pro slavery owning slaves... human trafficking... kind of a stretch

[@BigRedRaider]

Now what would lestes pertain to when being caught with a naked child?

[@boxerfencer]

@@williamcody3415 read the entire comment. And it's not about what lestes could mean, because it could mean human trafficker or bandit or revolutionary. it's about whether or not the context supports the interpretation one puts forth.

[@chsgamondo7557]

It’s where the Greek word for pirate comes from .

[@nicholashartling-briggs7806]

They didn’t crucify common criminals in front of an angry crowd. Your revisionism is meaningless against the reality of the text and the motivation of public and extremely violent execution. Roman’s held society to a higher standard by wanting to cull the abuse that some elite Greek abusers practiced

[@ZacharySands-g2q]

Here we go, it's about to get historic. Calling Ammon out is a bold move.

[@joefilter2923]

If Lady Babylon is on the loose it has to prove that it’s the only one who’s actually seen this in 2000 years or so

[@ZacharySands-g2q]

@@joefilter2923 Buddy he doesn't have to "prove" anything, nor is he "on the loose" . as if you have some measure of control. He's pushing the narrative of the mysteries, I'm looking forward to this showdown.

[@theimaginariumnetwork5621]

The real question is how many Phrama texts have you read? It makes a huge difference. For example, I know things as a Master Mason that the average person doesn't in regards to occult and symbolism, ect...I've watched countless times as people don't fully understand something they are reading because they don't know the esoteric symbolism. Often knowing the esoteric symbolism completely changes the actual "interpretation" of a particular passage or writing. Ex. Someone modern mentioning syrup as an ingredient in a potion. Most people would assume this is talking about sugary syrup, when in fact it may be using a slang term - syrup in this case is refering to a drug people make, that is called syrup by those in the know. Only someone who is in the know, or has studied gang terminology would be able to put two and two together to realize its not sugar syrup being mentioned, but a drug conconction. I don't think my analogy is easy to grasp. Sorry!

[@joefilter2923]

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar

[@smokinhoff9209]

The problem is that people who speak on these issues have modern take on what happened back then. Mark 14 51. Jesus was arrested with a Neaniskos. A Neaniskos is a boy who is going through puberty/just starting puberty.

[@josuemunoz5498]

Did a quick Google search on the word and that's not what that word means at all

[@ELC-h9b]

​​ maybe instead of googling you check other Greek sources like Xenophon

[@Big.Rage57]

"Young man or Youth"

[@josuemunoz5498]

This is how Pythagoras defines the ages: παῖς εἴκοσι ἔτεα, νεηνίσκος εἴκοσι, νεηνίης εἴκοσι, γέρων εἴκοσι” Pythag. ap. D.L.8.10. Translation: "child 20 years, young man (neānískos) 20, man (neēníēs = neāníās) 20, old man 20" Here, Pythagoras proposes that a neānískos spans the ages from 20-40 years. With the evolution of Greek over time, it is obsefved that the age limit, had drfted downwards, but would still be recognisably a young man rather than a boy or kid

[@smokinhoff9209]

@@josuemunoz5498 fair play 👍

[@Rednines]

Interesting how these guys are providing less context and contemporary sources than Ammon and providing counter evidence in the form of English kjv translations

[@Rednines]

Like notice it’s all incredibly loyal to strongs concordance and cross compares with absolutely zero other of these Hellenized Jewish authors who supposedly are using neaniskos to mean full grown adult. Like I feel like I’m being scolded instead of educated, BRING ME SOURCES FOR YOUR CLAIMS

[@marcomoreno6748]

Why? That's not how this works. Is this a measure of less than or greater than? We should want sufficient and good reason for these translations... why "more"? If you want a debate bro steaming pile o' crap there are dozens of other channels out there better suited for your taste...

[@Rednines]

@@marcomoreno6748 they brought ZERO Greek sources for their claim on neaniskos, sindon, lestes, etc he gave a dictionary argument and then a bunch of English translations based on kjv. I’m asking for ANY substance, or case to be demonstrated, while you’re satisfied WITHOUT SOURCES or any sort of argument beyond “oh our modern dictionary says this, nothing to see here, enjoy scraps” Ammon regularly cites and translates Christian texts on his streams and no amount of browbeating is going to be persuasive until they actually address what he really says. Ammon regularly demonstrates an ability to read and translate Greek Christian pagan and Jewish cult and medical texts and I have never seen Kipp read Greek and he can cite all the puns that he wants in his 8000 word language BUT if we are taking the ability to identify puns as evidence like you seem to be then Ammon’s demonstration of Greek wordplay and ability to translate hapax words by understanding the ancient language and culture far outstrip kipps handful of puns. Ammons broadcast has shown hundreds of puns, puns, acrostics, and wordplay abound in Greek cult texts because it was a living language in a way that Hebrew was not. They also made a huge mistake by bringing up the LSJ which is way more supportive of Ammon’s claims than I think either Kipp or MV realize. Gnostic informant’s Psalms argument is an actual substantive thing you can point to and argue about! These guys gave such little substance that I’m upset with both of them, it’s like they’re not even engaged in the conversation. They never get into why they think their modern Christian translation is correct, how their scholars arrive at their conclusions. They just take an English language dump on you and expect you to believe what they say without getting into their REASONS or who is saying this and HOW scholars arrive at their conclusions that the word for little boy is actually a grown man. If these guys were worth their salt they’d be able to destroy Ammon with SOURCES not some argument from shock and moral outrage.

[@Rednines]

@@marcomoreno6748I just replied to this comment at length and now it’s deleted

[@williamcody3415]

@@Rednines that seems to happen a lot lately. happened to me several times also here

[@MythVisionPodcast]

What specifically do you agree or disagree on in this video and why? Should I get Dr. Dennis R. MacDonald on to discuss this with Dr. Hillman? Will Dr. Hillman talk with him about this on my channel?

[@sabithasajan5564]

I need a debate.

[@Allothersweretakenn]

YES get them together NOWWWWWWW

[@jasonlightfoot4145]

Dr Hillman will get on the debate stage, just remember he is not going to play "nice" ie is not going to give two shits about the other person's feelings.

[@cultytalk]

LOL I doubt David Hillman would talk to Dr McDonald, but YES! I'd love to hear what Dr McDonald has to say!!

[@iskandermagnus1972]

@@MythVisionPodcast stop playing the fence. Either set up the debate and allow Ammon the chance to speak and defend his position or stop propagating Kipps bullshit lies. Kipp is full of NOTHING but ego. He can’t bring himself to face the fact he got a PhD in an utterly USELESS language that was used to brainwash the world into Abrahamic theology. He can’t bring himself to face the truth that he wasted his time getting a useless education. This is the problem with a LOT of academics-they tie their identity, their self worth, and their ego to the subject they dedicated their lives too. It’s a slap in the face for Kipp to realize he’s been reading nothing but unintelligible fairytales. Either stop propagating his BS or put him on a show with Ammon. This entire interview is so freaking disingenuous and disrespectful.

[@noellea1493]

Man.. This NIN song just keeps playing in my mind when I see this “​​⁠ - as said best by MR. Reznor- “God money, I'll do anything for you God money, just tell me what you want me to God money, nail me up against the wall God money, don't want everything he wants it all… Head like a hole black as your soul, id rather die than give you control .. Bow down before the one you serve your going to get what you deserve” Fitting. Soo sooo soo fitting

[@JAHATMULTIVERSE]

Instead of talking behind Ammons back why don’t you grow some spine and have one on one debate with Mr Ammon you Mr Kippleistes?

[@tinatieden8499]

💜💜💜💜

[@meatloafhead]

Did you see when kipp debated ammon and RAN! it was embarrassing 😮

[@KenDWebber]

He has already done this and let me tell you... that didn't go well with Kipp! Kipp made a fool of himself and walked away from the debate when Hillman completely DESTROYED him kzbin.info8CCjrxg6fxo?si=hVpGZjvvwyI3Ze3m

[@joefilter2923]

So why can’t Lady Babylon just counter calmly and clearly?

[@VampyreAngels]

@8:14 the example of how far off ammon was on the verse that was read aloud is beginning to show signs that maybe you both have the same exact lens you claim that ammon has. i’m not an apologist for the guy, but i was so taken aghast by the information that he put forward, that i had to cross reference the sources and check for myself, literally learning the language. now that i’ve seen with my own eyes, it’s hard to unsee. but i will give you the same courtesy i gave him by watching this in its entirety and the documentary you put out, im looking forward to it.

[@stephenjohnson3084]

My thoughts exactly

[@joefilter2923]

So you’re saying that Kip is wrong

[@VampyreAngels]

@@joefilter2923 i’ll have a much more detailed response for you tomorrow after i sleep on this. i will rewatch it and post my final analysis for this session after the rewatching, but for now im not saying kipp is necessarily wrong, im saying he didn’t substantially prove ammon wrong. neither sloppy kipp nor the interviewer resourcefully rebuttal any of his statements with linguistics. i will expound more upon this within 24 hours.

[@jennifersilves4195]

Ammon has people learning Greek and reading the bible. That's important right now, so we know what we're up against.

[@emmanuelwolfmusic410]

Why do I get the feeling like Kipp is very disingenuous and only does things that doesn't rock the boat ? The equivalent of a literary eunuk.

[@trentlytle7289]

Um, the dude literally rocked the archaeology world by exposing the museum of the Bible as frauds who bought forgeries and looted documents.

[@brettcarter8194]

Neither one of you can read acient Greek. So, how can you question a source you can't read?

[@MythVisionPodcast]

Can you read ancient Greek and confirm the ideas of Ammon?

[@meatloafhead]

Non greek speakers over here questioning a phd in ancient greek😅

[@baran1170]

kipp knows greek

[@DrKippDavis]

Jesus Christ. I can read ancient Greek.

[@fabledremedies]

@@DrKippDavis why are you reading from the NRSV Kip ??? Pull up the text in Greek on the Perseus Digital Library and show us that Ammon is wrong. Read it to us in Greek

[@fabledremedies]

So you are reading from the NRSV English translation because neither of you are fluent enough in Greek to read the original. . . Once again, another completely empty argument by people that can’t read the text that they are trying to defend a narrative of..

[@marcomoreno6748]

I was so glad to know you've created and uploaded your own video on the subject, given your expertise.

[@trentlytle7289]

So all these people just learning Greek are all correct, and not the Dunning-Kreuger effect at work?

[@blueseav]

Hillman is so right....

[@dansaber4427]

He knows the real story of Jesus

[@Allothersweretakenn]

@@blueseav you’re on to something bro

[@noellea1493]

Right? This is foolery right here 💯.. Derek you don’t even know the context neither of you do . And neither does the person writing this entire story it’s all a bunch of mumbo jumbo 😂

[@MichaelMcDonald-my2np]

There's a reason why the religious people don't like him. Imagine if they had to crucify everyone who said they were god... he did something. Hillman knows the true story

[@joefilter2923]

And yet it sounds whack

[@zippol49]

Thanks!

[@cultytalk]

Omg I've never clicked on a video so fast lmao 😂

[@Allothersweretakenn]

💪

[@jaycrocker3812]

Me either 😂

[@meatloafhead]

Me too😅

[@SEGMENA]

Did Jesus sell Thomas?

[@Darisiabgal7573]

Don’t stake yourself to a hill unless you intend to die on it. RIP Morton Smith.

[@janejones3170]

Jesus was part of a mysterious cult right?And this verse has been a problem for the church for a long time ,I understand this channel is a business ,but gagging up on a Scholar that you us to make money with I think is poor taste.Also by talking about Dr. Ammon is promoting his ideas.Let’s start treating the Bible as we do other works from that timeframe ,you should be working together and let go of your biases.I not saying Dr Ammon is right but your argument is not compelling to me.Let’s look at all writing from around that time.And it doesn’t help that Myth vision makes money with the Scholars who are in opposition to Mr. Ammon , and I know Ammon has a Biases too,but he not making money from this.I have learned a lot through this channel,but let’s be real ,Mythvision has more to gain financially to oppose Mr Ammon then to stay neutral.

[@noellea1493]

EXACTLY !!

[@clairehann2681]

Sharp.

[@criticaloptimist7961]

Everyone should understsnd by now that Derek is a low key grifter. Not to say there isnt tramendous value in what he does.

[@mazteryoda]

Are these videos old? Kipp was on Danny jones last month

[@ReynaldoRodriguez-lf8lq]

Thank you for setting us straight Derek and Dr. Kipp. Now, how about selling us more books and courses for which we desperately need to know. Have a good holiday.

[@noellea1493]

Don’t forget the Merch!

[@joefilter2923]

@@noellea1493 it’s a conspiracy about adrenal foam 🤪

[@clairehann2681]

​@@joefilter2923 lol. What a lame take. Zero evidence he thinks, ever suggests, or saw any of this in the texts. Have you thought that maybe there are some dots you are not connecting?

[@brwest2632]

The syntax of the verse is completely different in Greek than it is in English in Mark 14:51-52. I'm a student of Ammon's and didn't believe his claims initially but after researching the conjugations I found Ammon to be correct. Kip is doing mental gymnastics to justify the context of the situation that Jesus was in with the boy and using modern day Christian metaphors to make sense of the situation that would not apply to those times. As eccentric as Dr. Hillman is in his presentation of the sources, he is an expert in Koine and knows what he is talking about and also understands, based on similar Koine texts the cult practices of that time and specific area. While some of his followers are devout and defend him similarly without hesitation to a cult leader it is only because he has earned the respect of them by proving every claim he makes. But his subscriber's actions do not reflect that Dr. Hillman is a charlatan mystic. There are too many loose ends if Jesus wasn't doing something nefarious in the garden. How do you explain Jesus dying so quickly on the cross and the extreme thirst? There are many other misrepresentations in the KJ Bible when you start making comparisons to the Greek but then you start looking at the actions of Jesus within the Dead Sea Scrolls and it starts to make too much sense. The Greater Questions of Mary is another text that addresses Christian sex rites, then there is recent evidence of cults in Egypt using "bodily fluids" by forensic testing of the ritual vessels. I will use your same logic......."If it acts like a cult, sounds like a cult......it's probably a cult;" "if Jesus acts like a child trafficker, sounds like a child trafficker, then he probably is one. You're willingly ignoring so much evidence to continue along with the consensus and it's a bit disappointing that you and Kip maintain there isn't at least some slight possibility that Ammon's claims have some possibility of truth.

[@nicholashartling-briggs7806]

They didn’t pull up an original text the entire video. “I know a guy who disagrees”.. saved everyone from watching

[@gabreel8112]

I don't agree with Ammon about the boy in the garden but I do want to know what grown men were doing with a young boy that was naked. That just seems weird to me.

[@meatloafhead]

In context it actually makes sense with the pirate usage of the word... thats why no one has ever made the naked boy part make sense til ammon

[@jimiberman3464]

technically he wasn't naked until he ran away and had his wrapping torn from him. the argument has a false premise.

[@danielbarton8974]

this is true .but I think it was only a matter of time till he was unclothed 🤣

[@jimiberman3464]

@@danielbarton8974 🤣

[@joefilter2923]

Again a youth can be up to the age of 30 to 33

[@ELC-h9b]

Can someone please tell me how we know the young man clothed in a στολῇ (often worn during mourning rites)in Mark 16 is the same young man wearing a σίνδων(worn during religious rituals) when jesus was arrested? And even if we made the connection, how does this negate that Jesus was probably doing something weird enough to get arrested on sight in Mark 14???

[@clairehann2681]

We don't. But it is an extremely minor point. The point is that when you look at many, many, many other parts of the gospels, the drug and s*x terms are all there, as is the context to clarify their use. You cannot go back after seeing these paragraphs of text

[@Allothersweretakenn]

26:25 correct me if I’m wrong but what we consider young man today is NOT what they considered young man.. because for THEM it was decided by puberty not age. So technically 13 year old can be a young man. Correct me if I’m wrong

[@smokinhoff9209]

Yep the boy was a Neaniskos which means a boy from The age of 12-15ish. Just about to start puberty or in the early stages of puberty.

[@ELC-h9b]

Have a look at Xenophon's use of the word when describing Persian male students. Then research how old Persian boys were when they began their training. You will see that you are correct. Also, if we consider the NT a religious text we may also want to consider the age of religious adulthood in the region was 13 or after puberty.

[@Allothersweretakenn]

@@ELC-h9b if we go by some Christian traditions that say John died in like 108 he woulda been around 14-15 when he began following Jesus. Supporting evidence 🙌

[@EdwardM-t8p]

He's right. When I was young, the term "young adult" referred to individuals from 13 y.o. to 18 or 21 y.o., but!... in the 1980s D.C. politicians redefined childhood to extend to age 18 with their child pornography legislation.

[@MarkGordonBrown]

Hes reading from an English translation, not Greek. Smoke and mirrors

[@jacobpast5437]

[Repost from another comment:] Why should he read it to you in Greek (Koine Greek, to be precise) if neither you nor the vast majority of viewers understand a word of it? What would be the point? Wouldn’t it make more sense to read it in a translation that everyone can understand? And no, it’s not as if the passage has been mistranslated to conceal the "real story." If you compare twenty different translations of this passage, you’ll find only minor differences in phrasing or word choice. Even if he or Ammon read it to you in the original Greek, what purpose would it serve if they didn’t then translate and explain its meaning in a language you actually understand? Would you even trust Kipp’s impromptu, unvetted translation over a scholarly translation that has been publicly available and subject to scrutiny from other experts-including classicists, if that makes you feel better? If Kipp read it in Greek and then offered his own translation, would you believe him? This argument is nonsensical. Are you just throwing out criticism without thinking it through first? The comment section is flooded with arguments of this kind. Don’t you realize that, in doing so, you’re casting a poor light on the very person you’re trying to defend?

[@MarkGordonBrown]

@jacobpast5437 he assumes that none of us can understand Greek as do you. Fact is Kipp can't understand Greek. Ammon has proven that over and over again. Ἐστίν σοι ἀνόητος ὡς καὶ ἐκεῖνος, ὃς ἐν ταῖς ἀκαταστασίαις αὐτοῦ δι᾽ ὄψιν ἀπάτης ἐφανερώθη

[@oseiosei6649]

Jesus -“I AM NOT A CHILD TRAFFICKER.”

[@neocount6397]

Doth protest, too much

[@joefilter2923]

Can you remind me what verse that is again?

[@criticaloptimist7961]

They keep arguing that Hillman is misappropriating context here. But honestly the context given by Hillman makes a lot of sense for this passage which has othrwise ambiguous meaning. Like, what else justifies the peculiarities of the story?

[@greysea9807]

Ammons version actually makes more sense tbh. Why else was his punishment so extreme and everyone so on board?

[@Flyspray420]

Why doesn't the text say he was performing a sex ritual with a kid then?

[@joefilter2923]

Ammon‘s version requires more proof because it’s ridiculous upon first look

[@jacobpast5437]

Because Jesus was rocking the elite's boat

[@skullbong]

exactly, why would jesus use the word lestes if it was a common criminal or robber? they didn't crucify robbers. Lestes means human trafficker as used by caesar in the story about his abduction.

[@huguesdepayens807]

No it doesn't. he was crucified for treason. What you think makes more sense is irrelevant, there's still no evidence of your hypothesis.

[@Tom-t8h]

Derrick you’re saying it wrong Mark doesn’t have Jesus Barrabas, Matthew has Jesus Barrabas

[@oseiosei6649]

And Jesus said to them, “I AM NOT A CHILD TRAFFICKER”.

[@joefilter2923]

What verse was that again?

[@liberalinoklahoma1888]

" JESUS CHRIST!! WHY ARE YOU ARRESTING ME, I DID NUTHIN WRONG??!!" That is what Jesus said.

[@ReynaldoRodriguez-lf8lq]

They always arrested people for doing nothing wrong and getting executed. Can you imagine being brought up before a governor and Reginald ruler just because you have a small group of poor nobody young men preaching about loving your fellow man? Something bigger was happening. Yes,a debate is indeed needed.

[@KenDWebber]

nope. You get no cigars. Not even close.

[@Gift-7-n1s]

I love how at 6:15 he starts making a definitive statement and then proceed to qualify it afterwards.

[@Daniel-Tiger]

I’ve heard boys as young as ten being called “young man” by older people

[@marcionbruno8197]

I think Ammon's case about the text works (kind of) if he is right about the nature of early Christianity: in other words, that it was a drug cult. It is wrong to suppose that he is reading the text literally, either the New Testament or any of the apocryphal works that he treats in precisely the same literalistic way. The criticism tends to be that that he takes words out of context, for example by taking leistes to mean a human trafficker, or that the alabastron was a dildo-shaped medical applicator used for rectal insertion, or the sindon being a "medicated bandage". Or, most particularly, all the pharmaceutical terminology that he gets from Galen. His interpretation is nonsense --- unless it isn't. Because if early Christianity WERE a drug cult, we would expect the New Testament, and other early Christian texts, to be essentially coded descriptions of drug rituals, which were written so that outsiders would read a straight story of a messianic prophet, while "those with ears to hear" would understand the coded information. That is Hillman's actual case. It is not his case that any of these documents are literal descriptions of things that happened, even if that is what he seems to be saying. I don't buy it myself, but it's not intrinsically absurd. After all, there's strong evidence that at least some Christian-inflected sects were doing weird sex and drug stuff.

[@stephenjohnson3084]

Thank you, that was well put

[@KenDWebber]

So do you not realize that "Jesus" is the high priest of The Order of Melchizedek who openly state that they keep ONE MEANING only for members and they give another meaning to the world? That's IN the bible. Have you not read this?

[@Dreamspore]

Always good stuff! Keep the sources coming, keep the discussion going. Cheers! 🍷🐍

[@tym0027]

I would not describe myself as an ammon fanatic. But i find some of these arguments unconvincing. Immeditely out of the gate, in the context of ammon's claim "im not a bandit" and "youre arresting me like a bandit?" Neither of these more or less support ammon's claims. Sure hes paraphrasing. But i dont think Ammon is paraphrasing in a way that is dishonest or undermines his point. I'm not wholely 100% convinced by what Ammon says. But I think he presents a fascinating perspective on the possible influences of bacchic literature on early Christianity. And I think that perspective should be grappled with more seriously, even if not fully adopted as consensus.

[@joefilter2923]

Well, since early Christian culture that survived is mainly Greek we should expect Greek influence. But that doesn’t mean obscure Greek cultic practices can be found in every aspect of the religious culture of ancient Israel.

[@tym0027]

@joefilter2923 I think the point that people like Neal Sendelak and Ammon are making is that this is in no circumstances obscure or esoteric to an everyday Greek person who might be reading about Christianity in 90 CE. And I think they largely are successful in making that point. I just read one study that estimated at one time 50% of Athens citizenry was initiated in the Eleusinian mysteries. I think the intent of the authors of the written Bible is largely irrelevant. Maybe Kipp and Derek are correct that this is fictional literature and designed to proclaim theologic conclusions of the authors. But it seems impossible to deny that some Greek people would read the early Bible and have the conclusions that Ammon has. Many people would see these words and think (wrongly or not) that they were being winked at and these were allusions to other well known religions of the day. It is interesting that there were not overt cults that take the extreme stances Ammon does in interpreting the relevant gospel story. But more investigation should be had. And Ammon's POV should not be dismissed as obviously wrong. I want to see a deeper argument. I do wish that all these people could agree to disagree more. I subscribe to all of them.

[@eximusic]

Dennis might have been a total badass years ago. People mellow with age. But taking the garden and entire passion narrative as anything more than fiction is completely ridiculous. Are we to believe Jesus' prayer in the garden was somehow recorded while the disciples accompanying him were asleep? Occam's razor sez it's all fiction. Given that, you would have to assume Ammon's take on it, if accurate, was the creative intention of the author only. Which is even stranger.

[@Allothersweretakenn]

@@eximusic strange to you and your modern sensibilities, right?

[@eximusic]

@@Allothersweretakenn Homo sapiens have existed for 300,000 years. From 1 AD/CE to now we have surprisingly similar sensibilities. You're reading the "writers" from back then and their products. You're not seeing what everyday people thought in the 1st century. If we're different in any ways regarding literature, in antiquity they weren't timid about adding fiction in with history. And writing fictional letters that supposedly came from famous people. People don't really do that today as we have many ways to check facts.

[@EdwardM-t8p]

Not strange at all if the author originally wrote it as an anti-gospel.

[@steviangarcia1583]

Isn’t a sword 🗡️ in those days equivalent to a gun now n days? What was a Jesus disciple doing with a sword? He sliced a guards face with it. That’s gangster activity.

[@huguesdepayens807]

No

[@theophilos0910]

Makes you wonder if the fourth gospel’s ‘the disciple who was Jesus’ lover’ was the naked young man wrapt in a burial shroud at the end Mark ch 14-was he trying to replace ‘Yehudah bar Shimeon ish Keryiah’ aka Judas Iscarioth who had just defected -to the Rebbe’s (‘shock & awe’) surprise (‘he then became agitated & in shock’) in order to perform some ritual requiring a hasty baptism requiring a death-resurrection shroud in order to ‘draw down 12 legions of angels’ to fight on his behalf fulfilling Daniel chapter 12 & 1 Enoch chapter 1? I usually dislike the idea of combining the accounts of the ‘events’ surrounding ‘the Teacher’ as they are laid out in the 4 canonical Greek gospels into anything like an historical narrative say, the way Tatian did in his once-canonical Diatesseron c. 180 CE in Syro-Aramaic - but it is very clear that the ‘canonical passion narratives’ actual bare-bones content of ‘events’ are far more coherent & more similar to each other than anywhere else in the gospels -even in John’s polished Greek gospel seems to line up with the Synoptics in this case [whereas normally his content is violently different from the Synoptics] but if you step out of character and start to ‘combine all 4 accounts’ into a single narrative of the passion traditions in the ‘new testament’ you’ll see some very telling points being made-and the Greek placed into the mouth of a Greek-speaking ‘Iesous’ in the narratives taken as a whole is one of ‘defiance’ against ‘temporal authorities’ which the gnostics always attributed to ‘the heavenly archons pulling the strings of earthly archons (kings, rulers &c.) living ‘below’ … Here’s the gist of his speech extracted from the canonical Greek versions in their original defiant tone : ‘Do you dare come out against the BarEnasha (‘son of man’) with your swords and your clubs and your tiki torches in the thick of the night as if trying to apprehend some petty armed bandito ? Do you not know that the Bar Enasha (‘son of man’) could with a simple request to his father in heaven immediately draw down 12 legions of Angels -even ‘myriads of holy ones to fight on his behalf to pass judgement upon the sinful sons of darkness’ even as it is written in the scriptures ? But, behold, it is the dead of night when the cover of Beli’al’s darkness gives strength & courage to all of his minions like you who belong to their synagogue of darkness -even the spawn of the Dark One himself [who all like you shall be cast into the burning lake fire in the Judgement !’ ] - [possibly referring to 1 Henoch chapter 1 ? It was widely read in Jesus’ lifetime if the Dead Sea scrolls are anything to go by…] ‘And [Kefah ?] said, Rebbe, rebbe shall we strike them down now with our broadswords ?’ which was followed by ‘Malchus’ having his ear sliced clean off … (the ‘striking’ language reminds me of the phrase used earlier in the narrative of ‘Luke ‘ v.g. (‘Rebbe, shall we strike this people with blindness the way Elijah did?’ which scene is not found elsewhere in any of the other canonical passion narratives based on 2 Kings 6:18-23) ‘Thou hast spoken well’ (aka ‘yes indeed’) would have been the natural response from ‘Iesous’ - but it might well have been removed from the text of ‘Luke’ (whoever he was…) because immediately after the question ‘shall we kill them with our broadswords ?’ the ear slicing started taking place … Oh the things that make you go ‘Hmmmmmmmm’ !!!

[@The_searchster]

7:49 more like "affectionably kiss", in the likes of a kiss that you give a lover, look at the definition of that word in the contemporary accurate greek it is originally written

[@zippol49]

Was the disciples teenagers?

[@The_searchster]

Don´t forget the diminutive!! :D what a time that was to be alive, not so welcoming and very very sketchy in regards to the regard to others, glad to be in this one rn

[@kariannecrysler640]

Ya

[@trentlytle7289]

Peter had a wife, only John son of Zebedee was depicted that way in art

[@kariannecrysler640]

@ when did the coming of age traditions happen age wise?

[@willmosse3684]

The Ammon fan club is proper crazy man. Every video on this topic the comment section is just flooded. This is not how normal academic theses are supported. This is definitely very weird, and, let’s face it, culty.

[@KenDWebber]

Why do you refer to being able to read the actual Greek as "culty?" Do you not want people to be able to read the texts for themselves? Any WHY would anyone want that, which is a state of ignorance, hmm?!

[@willmosse3684]

@ Seems like there’s a lot more going on than just reading the text…

[@jonathanadams1714]

But what if it was just from reading the text?

[@willmosse3684]

@@jonathanadams1714 If it was just from reading the texts, I would still think it was incorrect. Because I think it’s quite clear that that is what the evidence shows. But, I wouldn’t think it was weird and culty. That’s based on a whole bunch of other stuff that goes on around this Ammon Lady Babylon stuff. Which the, what looks very much to me like agenda driven, misreading of the texts feeds into.

[@jimmybryant2187]

I couldn’t agree with you more my friend. It’s very ugly.

[@liberalinoklahoma1888]

" AND HIS NAME SHALL BE CALLED IMMANUEL." Matthew 1:23 Which is why even to this day they pray to Immanuel Christ!!

[@amysmardz4842]

I don't think it's so far fetched to think someone slipped him something when he's dying to put him out of his misery or even wishing that someone had and writing it into the story. I also don't see why it would be unbelievable for some naked kid being in the garden. He could have been circumcising or making him a eunuch. Jesus did talk about that. We don't know all their rituals. We see Jesus himself naked washing his disciples' feet while naked. Obviously there were rituals we are not aware of but the communities writing/reading these texts might be

[@erpthompsonqueen9130]

This is great.

[@Cleary-ym1ce]

Kipp said the diminutive formed Neaniskos is not a youngster. Why does he do that? Miguelito is exactly the same. Come on Kipp.

[@maninalift]

Amon Hillman has more red flags than a game of minesweeper.

[@Jessgitalong]

Just because Ammon is charismatic, doesn’t mean he’s worthy of worship. Some people seem to. Weird.

[@adriaanqzl]

Comments here castigating you for orthodoxy are hilarious. Your videos are often a bit scatterbrained imo and reaching a lot but in comparison to that video this references are a lot more grounded. There's speculative research and then there's straight up shock value crackpot theorism, people. The Ammon video is the latter.

[@marcomoreno6748]

How much you wanna bet these are also in the "Graham school of thought" (alleging we had advanced civilization on par with today, pre 100kya)?

[@MadMax-gc2vj]

So now attacking Ammon is the answer.

[@joefilter2923]

I think you have this backwards, you know about who is on the attack

[@DCfromBC]

Jesus is brought to trial before the Sanhedrin, the governor, and the king in the gosepls after his arrest. At no point during any of these trials is he accused of what Ammon says he's accused of. You don't need to understand Greek to see Ammon is full of sh-t. You just need to be able to exercise common sense.

[@joefilter2923]

He’s definitely cherry, picking, although how can anybody believe that we even have a record of what those people said in their private discussions around the time of that trial! We’re expected to believe that a rabbi claimed to be God when he actually did not claim to be God. He’s supposed to be king and yet in over 100 verses he’s on the right hand side of the throne of God. Jesus said don’t call him good and that he only did the will of him who sent him, so that’s no king. The whole thing is guesswork.

[@DCfromBC]

@joefilter2923 Ammon isn't cherry-picking. He's lying. There's a difference.

[@heaththepoet9751]

How many of the people in the comments think it’s hilarious to have ended up nude from fleeing?

[@healzbichgaming]

if you take your clothes off you can run faster, less wind drag.

[@davidfrisken1617]

Yep. It needs a plausible explanation(correct or not), rather than hand waving it away.

[@lfranciscotejeda]

Funny to hear people justify a naked young man along side Jesus the night that he got arrested. Please focus on the kid, and where were his parents?

[@MadScientistCinema]

Watching people argue over what some character said thousand of years ago is cute. Back to science now…

[@Machine9000]

Has anyone considered that after the phoencians dispersed at 250 BC that the entire ordeal probably took 100 years which fits into the idea that the survivor phoencians (a mixed multitude) conspired to invent a new people (hebrews) a new language, and a new text ad a means to survive? And give hope based on classics to the followers? Im saying some.survinving phoencians became hebrew overnight. So the texts arw written by them in both greek and hebrew as the language was being developed. It makes sense to me!

[@d6mafia13]

That definitely makes sense.

[@NightRanger00]

You might be on to something.

[@nicholashartling-briggs7806]

It’s clearly an overnight false history because there is no evidence otherwise

[@jonathanadams1714]

Wow another episode of profiting off of Ammon by calling him a liar while he’s not in the room to defend his position. Is the monetized views enough cash for you or should I mail my bank card to you?

[@Deconstruction_Zone]

The naked boy in the garden was clearly a nod to the emperor without clothes, referring to the failures of Jesus in fulfilling any prophecies, while all Christendom pretends he's the messiah 😂

[@joefilter2923]

Do you actually believe that the New Testament is a faithful representation of the actual words of Jesus?

[@erpthompsonqueen9130]

Thank you. Watching from Alaska. 🤔

[@Jessgitalong]

Nah, Dude. While I have fun with Ammon, his followers are scary! Ammon, I really wish you’d tell them to calm down!

[@SEGMENA]

Does Kip have an original thought in his head

[@marcomoreno6748]

Average Kipp hate-watcher

[@Darisiabgal7573]

Enkidu was not strictly a homosexual. Remember a priestess of Ishtar drained him of his natural magic in 6 and 1/2 days. If you think about this how is a priestess of Ishtar going to drain a man of his mojo? It does not take much imagination. Gilgamesh had every woman in Uruk that he wanted, that was not the point, his debauchery was not the solution but the cause of the problem which his comrade in quest solved. In other words it was a means of Gilgamesh becoming more than the surviving son of a king, but actually to be a king.

[@kariannecrysler640]

I don’t think that the child trafficking is the point. I think the point is to be so sensational that the obvious influencing philosophies that xian adapted and developed into the faith of Christianity have to be openly discussed and accepted in modern day christianity and subsequent scholarships associated to the texts. Many of these influencing philosophies have representations in the old books too & have an integral role in the development of the Hebrew faith. Just yesterday I realized that Acts wasn’t attacking all outside philosophies, but it did attack the two most influential to the changes that made christianity unique. Teaching the inclusion of these outside philosophies and their contributions to the evolution of the Abrahamic faiths is just the future of responsible biblical scholarship, because it gets us to the most true things that we can determine currently about the texts, the cultures & the philosophies. I love you and Kipp having an open discussion about this topic, I only wish it had been more about what I was saying above than defending the current status quo’s. 💗🥰

[@MythVisionPodcast]

Would Ammon's apologists ask Ammon if he is willing to have a formal professional debate/discussion with Dr. Dennis R. MacDonald?

[@kariannecrysler640]

Sure! I would love to actually just be a fly on the wall if the two of them were having a discussion. I’m not very keen on debates (peacocking), but I bet the two of them agree on more than they disagree on.

[@The_searchster]

Can´t do it yourself?

[@Rednines]

Apologists? Why don’t you go on lady Babylon? Not enough ad revenue?

[@saltybits9954]

All about the money.

[@The-Aion]

Says the guy that attacks apologists yet is being a Bible apologist himself. Wild how your brain works.

[@dustinmylesdiou2649]

so glad this is finally happening, been waiting for it! 🍿

[@atheist.archive]

The reason why i listened to Ammon at first was because my brain tried to somehow connect what he said with things like Espstein island. I can't understand how people can hurt children and Ammon kind of gave a reason why, in a way.

[@willmosse3684]

But why does he then have everyone dress up and perform like they are in these cults that he says preyed on children? That’s pretty weird right? If he thinks it is so horrific, why is he invoking it and acting it out? Be warned is what I say…

[@liberalinoklahoma1888]

BAD BOYS, BAD BOYS, WHAT YOU GONNA DO WHEN THEY COME FOR YOU, JESUS??!!

[@The_searchster]

Keep on beign afraid man, he´s not comming, he dead, we have been fed a fairy tale regretably

[@liberalinoklahoma1888]

@@The_searchster Not afraid friend, this is making fun of Jesus or his followers.

[@joefilter2923]

Yes,Ammon goes into a trance and psychically connects to the people at that time, which is why he can take a vague third hand or worse text and prove it true history.

[@davidrice8153]

46:47..no Dr. Hippy Kippy Dr. Ruck confirmed Dr. Hillman, the lecture is an audio clip

[@jamesgrosrenaudjr812]

You uncover so many truths . That the church doesn’t even seem to know anymore .

[@janejones3170]

Why is he with the boy at all at early morning? and why bring up naked? If he had clothes on then why mention it at all ,and why are you putting up walls around the Bible as if it is something Divine ?Let’s treat the Bible like we do all Ancient books.

[@DrKippDavis]

All if this is explained in the video. Perhaps watch it.

[@nicholashartling-briggs7806]

Every time they say young man replace it with 13 year old

[@siecheil]

hes wrong about the drugs, but hes right about the.. other thing.

[@honestal2684]

Ammon Hillman is just as cool as Billy Carson 😂

[@EdelgardDeb]

Kipp Davis: "Scholars are crazy, dude"

[@SEGMENA]

So he had a towel on

[@bogdy72000]

wasn't that a handkerchief ?!

[@junkit8541]

Unsubscribed.

[@thelyrebird1310]

Bye... don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out

[@Jimmy-vn9hv]

Thank you so very much for your content. I've been wondering about this stuff for a while now. I've seen him interpret other passages out of context. I can understand his motive after what the academic establishment treated him. But yes love Amon and he is a great entertainment! Hey guys I have a true life story to tell that is absolutely hilarious! I've been in prison 6 times in Arizona and never had a victim in my so called crimes. I've seen meth cooked, caught my own house on fire, and witnessed some mind blowing characters in and out of prison. Is there a podcast/ entertainment KZbinr that would be interested in hearing my honest story? Let me know!

[@zachr0]

Is the young man’s robe being removed while he flees an allusion to Joseph’s robe being removed when he fled Potiphers wife?

[@adamzandarski8933]

@@zachr0 most likely

[@stupidchukhna3111]

RUN KIPP RUN

[@brianlong2613]

I've thought the young man in Mark was a literary trick called inclusio to bookend the trial and passion from the rest of the narrative, and being such, was one opposite from the other. I've heard theories: it was Mark written in by Mark as an edited-in character; it was a deceased young man returned to life in a shroud (similar to W. Smith's "Secret"); and it was always a symbol of being robbed when young of the naivety that others aren't out to hurt you. I think Ammon's take doesn't give enough attention to both sides of the character's presentation.

[@MarcelVincent]

in the video where Dr. Ruck corrects Ammon... They BOTH agree it's someone of puberty age... Dr. Ruck says.. its not a kid.. its someone of puberty age... and ammon says yes... that is a kid to me

[@EdwardM-t8p]

And a boy at the age of puberty is a kid to me, too. In Boston, where I grew up and lived for some time after college, anyone under 25 can be a kid and at the same time any male above puberty can be a young man.

[@KristieLaboca]

You guys are so wrapped up in this dude which ain’t God by the way that you don’t know which way to go when you try to defend something that’s not even translated right religion never worked it never will and there’s painting with the boy running away with the garment whatever it is true or false all religions has failed so let’s do this. Why don’t you guys have ammmon on your show? And let’s get down with the get down because you guys don’t make it any better on who’s right who’s wrong?

[@nicholashartling-briggs7806]

Debating original sources with a translation of a translation as if it is more accurate? With no contextual literature from the language, time, place.. this is getting pathetic. Pirate back then was a lawless and savage criminal that captured raped killed enslaved and sold people commonly. These are individuals who used humans as commodities and currency. These individuals you are worshipping were as illiterate to the Greek as you are so what is the point. Barabbas was spared because he wasn’t pirating or stealing people/women/children and invading and pillaging innocent people which the Roman’s wanted to discourage. In Jewish law a young man is 13 and none of the individuals in Mark described with Yoshua had jobs or were adults by the language itself; when he was arrested late at night in a sacred grove (gardens beside a cemetery) where rituals from false prophets was commonly documented by this time by Lucian but in this area no one would be literate. So this Yoshua fella is essentially coming in like some Epstein character while all the early Christian’s were prosecuted and killed for what they were doing and the grooming and passing on the ritual was clearly documented in the gospel of Thomas. There is well documented historical writings about how disgusting humans acted back then and we still see this behaviour and ritual being carried on today with the abuse rituals hidden by the Vatican.

[@n.c.1201]

Honestly, I feel like even if you don't agree with someone there will still be a possibility that some of it is true. Also, why even mention this non named person? Is it vital? Purpose...? I feel like the text can stand alone without him.

[@tookie36]

I think it’s a call back to the rich man who Jesus told to sell everything and follow him… he did that but the message is that he doesn’t surrender his life. It’s not just about giving up the material possessions Jesus wants your life

[@n.c.1201]

@tookie36 i guess. Thanks for the reply. That's kind of a stretch I guess. Do they say rich man? I think they do. Maybe not the same 'young man' word. But that's a good thought process. I find it interesting morning else is mentioned per say about learning a lesson from it. I have to re read it sometime soon.

[@tookie36]

@@n.c.1201 in mark 10 he is the rich man and in Matthew 19 he is the rich young man. The mythvision guys and many believe the young man who runs away naked is the young man in the white robe in the tomb. It def makes sense but I don’t think so bc this random guy gets to make the pronouncement to the women? I say no. I think it’s the risen John the Baptist who makes the pronouncements. It’s his thing haha

[@n.c.1201]

@@tookie36 good thoughts. when did john the baptist die...? I cannot recall. They briefly mentioned the one who was laying on jesus during the last supper and I was listening to someone discussing how they believe it was mary magdellan and reasons why. Very interesting. Back to the tomb topic- Wasnt the tomb empty and they left in mark's version? I would say the guy in the tomb could be made up later and perhaps they randomly did add him in but usually things arent fully random. Fun topics for sure

[@tookie36]

@ John the Baptist was beheaded by Herod and then placed in a tomb. In mark the women show up and a young man in a white robe is sitting there and tells them Jesus is risen and will meet the disciples in Galilee.

[@CrazyRealm55]

Maybe Ammon is telling us more about himself than Jesus.

[@willmosse3684]

Good work guys. It’s so patently obvious that Ammon’s theories are incorrect, apart from to people who are so deeply invested, most seemingly for quite personal reasons. They say it’s the other way around, and that only people invested in Christianity will disagree with Ammon, for dishonest reasons of belief. But I am not and never have been a Christian, and I don’t particularly like Christianity. As far as I am concerned, it was a tool of control used to wield power over my ancestors for 1500 years. So if all this stuff about Jesus was true, I would actually want to know about it. But it blatantly is not. And it seems like the great majority of Ammonites have personal reasons for hating Christianity and wanting to believe this, which is why they are so invested that they show up in hordes on every video on the topic. It’s creepy. And “purging” Neal is bloody weird too. He should never have allowed himself to get so wrapped up in this thing. I am glad he is out now though.

[@jonathanadams1714]

As someone who has not been christian my entire life and to this day still loves to study and better understand religion at the end of the day Ammon is the only one who made sense to me as to why those priests in the Catholic Church loved those little boys so much turns out it’s cause they’re the closest practicing Christians we have today.

[@Monedgar123]

Mythvision kill’n it lately!

[@MadebyJimbob]

I didn’t know Rollo Tomassi did anti-apologetics