Jensen : _I missed the part where that's my problem._
@j123carlo Жыл бұрын
You still got 2 kidneys right?
@viniciuseduardobomfim Жыл бұрын
I just wish Phanteks went back to using regular rubber grommets in their cases. There's no way rubber grommets are more expensive to manufacture compared to these weird sliding covers.
@HardwareCanucks Жыл бұрын
Agreed. Hate those covers. -D.
@Polyvalent Жыл бұрын
They actually used what felt like high quality grommets which looked great and lasted forever. I've gotta agree with you here
@andreashasvold2658 Жыл бұрын
Agreed. It's because of them i went for Lancool 3 instead. Now i will keep my lancool also😂
@dynastes4938 Жыл бұрын
They might at some point. The current generation of higher-end Phanteks cases is simply based on the tooling for the Evolv X in its entirety. As they eventually move to completely overhaul their line-up in a couple of years, the grommets could return, as feedback on the current system is not all that positive I feel.
@dakrawnik4208 Жыл бұрын
The sliding covers do suck, but rubber is gross. Dust sticks to them too easily. Lancool II nailed proper interior cable management imo. I'm done with rubber. I'm straight raw doggin from now on.
@JTX_1 Жыл бұрын
I use a P500A. There’s a reason why they were sold out often. Great performance, easy to build in, clean aesthetics. The new version seems to check all the same boxes.
@ZondaRbg11 ай бұрын
But on paper should be much better for gpu temps than torrent, why is same or lower idk
@nisx2012 Жыл бұрын
Im using a P500A and i love it. This one looks like a great upgrade! Love how they improved the top filter, removing the thumb screws on the side panel and how easy is to remove the front fans. As for the fan sound, im using x4 (3 front 1 back) 140mm fans and the case is silent when they are set to 900rpm. With that setup my gpu never goes above 60C. For the CPU im using Arctic Freezer2 360 top mounted and 5900x which is mostly at around 60-65C.
@nlheldt Жыл бұрын
I haven't had a Phantek case before and got the g500a. Definitely a solid case, temps idle are 30-32 and 60-62 while gaming. Also using an artic freezer ii 360 and a 7900x. If they keep this up I'll be definitely going phantek again in the future.
@chubscoi Жыл бұрын
Never knew Starlord had a PC building side hustle.
@HardwareCanucks Жыл бұрын
Gotta do stuff by day 👌 -D.
@red4cted- Жыл бұрын
Anti-GPU bracket made me laugh, needed that one during chip shortage..
@beaureddington4039 Жыл бұрын
Reminded me of the Cooler Master c700p I got right before everything got shot to shit. Comes with 2 fan brackets which fit front, top, and/or bottom. Third bracket sold separately. It took me 14 months, $80, and way too much stress for a freakin fan bracket (I literally [unsuccessfully] tried to broken someone at CM around the 6-8 month mark). I finally got one from Amsterdam on eBay for sixty euro, at the time about eighty bucks. All that to say.. that _modular_ fan bracket?! 👀👀🤤😏🫃🏼😮😨😅😎👌🏼
@dakrawnik4208 Жыл бұрын
Also needed a view of what he was doing at the back.
@ceuser3555 Жыл бұрын
Is it big and tall enough to accommodate big radiators like 420mm Arctic Liquid freezer 2 mounted on the top?
@wvjeepguy8178 Жыл бұрын
Using a P500A right now. It was the only case I could find to fit an Arctic 280mm rad in the top.
@TyGamer125 Жыл бұрын
Can you review the Lian Li 216?
@BiO811HazarD Жыл бұрын
This case is super similar to my Phanteks Evolv X and I love what they’ve brought across to their new cases from it!
@MichaelChan0308 Жыл бұрын
I am a P600S user and wondering if there would be a G600S at some point. Some upgrades to the interior would be great, you can only do so much with changing the front and top panel without changing the tooling. Lian Li is pretty innovative and Phanteks would lose out in the longer term if it is going to stick with the same interior layout forever.
@santherstat Жыл бұрын
I've loved Phanteks stuff for a while now, and I had my sights set on the P500A, so I think the G version is going to be my next case
@jerrycurls88 Жыл бұрын
Lancool III for me all day. Looks way more premium and if i'm spending this much, i'll go premium. more weight is a positive as it usually reflects more quality. I dont move my case everyday so dont care too much.
@insomniacbritgaming1632 Жыл бұрын
Phanteks is the more premium... you'd go for the Enthoo
@jerrycurls88 Жыл бұрын
@@pr107 sweet! My current build is in the lancool II. If I were to build today, it would be Lan cool iii all the way. Happy gaming!
@schwanzmunster2503 Жыл бұрын
I just picked up a G500a fanless version. Can't wait to transfer my parts into it. Had to get a new case because I bought a msi 4070ti and my old Coolermaster Storm trooper doesn't have enough gpu clearance
@remmykun8315 Жыл бұрын
The G500A has 185mm CPU Cooler max height… vs 190mm in the P500A… Come on Phanteks! You are not thinking pro RTX 4090 🤣
@larkan511 Жыл бұрын
I have a P600s and it's been a mixed experience. When I initially got the case, a couple pieces were broken out of the box and their customer service was excellent in getting me replacements. A few months down the road I started noticing, no amount of cleaning would take fingerprints off the case, inside and out. I contacted customer service again and they sent me new front and top pieces, saying it was a painting coat issue. So yes, customer service is great but I've also never had this many issues with a PC case.
@rudyramos13362 ай бұрын
Been rocking my enthoo pro special edition for 8 years. Second build inside it right now. I like watching your guys reviews just because.
@Jabid21 Жыл бұрын
Phanteks came really close to taking my money this time. If only they had a mesh airflow case with the Evolv X exterior design, I’d be all over that.
@fahadal-asmari6893 Жыл бұрын
It's the same rectangle with 3 fans drilled in the front how it's even better now?, literally every PC case on the market xD.
@LatinLegacyNY Жыл бұрын
The fanless option is amazing! Would like to see Corsair & Lian Li do the same down the road.
@KevinTroy777 Жыл бұрын
F Corsair overpriced pcs of shts..
@psychotictactoe Жыл бұрын
I have had the P600S for nearly three years now and its still the best case ive ever owned, the quality is amazing and the cooling has never been an issue. This almost looks like a downgrade!?
@Annodite Жыл бұрын
Compared to p600s, perhaps, but certainly an upgrade to the original p500
@psychotictactoe Жыл бұрын
@@Annodite Ah true, good comment!
@Annodite Жыл бұрын
I have the p600s as well, I want another build in it!
@psychotictactoe Жыл бұрын
@@Annodite Its such a great case, im shocked it seems to get ignored in all the 'airflow' tests lately.
@speedracer9132 Жыл бұрын
I suspect they inverted the stamp on the front mesh panel because in previous models they showed pictures of fans on the outside but in reality people could not fit fans like that because the mesh got in the way. With this redesigned mesh panel, fans can now fit in the front the way they are
@Aorynn Жыл бұрын
3:54 omg that Trash Taste BGM lmao
@elite393 Жыл бұрын
That 3:54 song fade in flashbanged my brain and I thought I a Trash Taste ep started up lmao. I know it's not their own song but I catch every ep is it's ingrained in me :P
@Tech215Studios Жыл бұрын
Holy $hit!!! This Case has some friggin amazing little features. The last 3 premium builds I've done were in Lian Li cases and I absolutely love them, but I've done a few builds with Phantek's and they were always good. Glad they finally ditched the flat front panel.
@brettleisy356 Жыл бұрын
I really like some of the things about the case, the more open area to work on it is nice, the mesh they use on top and front are really nice to show light, filter debris and keep good air flow. the biggest downside I wish they would make is adding support for 200mm front fans. it's one of the reasons I bought a much lower costing Raidmax case. makes it SUPER quiet, and I have tons of airflow. and doing the air cooling method these are important to me. at idle you cant hear the fans, even under gaming load it's barely audible. under load its quieter than some cases at idle. they need to bring this "fad" back. cause it works when done right. around 27-28c at idle in a 28c room. and even benchmarking/stress testing its still under 70c (still haven't hit 71 yet, even when room temp was 29c)... ON AIR. when gaming I can put my hand over the top fan and it feels cool-cold and moves a lot of air. if they brought out a 2x200mm version.... I would have been all over it even at the higher cost. to fix the back panel it could be an easy fix of putting an X cross framing. would add ounces at most depending on material used. and would stop the "flimsy" feel and flex.
@IlGrandeRio Жыл бұрын
I still prefer the original p500a white. The total white style is less exiting in my opinion.
@jcmo69 Жыл бұрын
I bought one, you sold me....hardcore Cooler Master FAN BOY gone rogue
@Metaris Жыл бұрын
I'm impressed. They fixed a lot of my issues w the P500A. This is definitely on my short list now, although I still hate those sliding cable covers.
@ChinchillaBONK Жыл бұрын
Off topic, I just love the humorous tone you do for your ads. Makes me actually anticipate what kinda ad will you be making for your videos
@blackdragonx1186 Жыл бұрын
i have the p500a with a 420 rad in the front. i dont have any real complaints with it, but those led strips sure do look nice. Mine is a big mess in the basement having the 2 drive cages in and occupying the same space as my ball-valve drain, so i think those doors would get in my way haha
@MarkoVuckovic32 Жыл бұрын
I wish Phanteks released a microatx airflow focused case. Basically something like P200A but just a little larger and for microatx motherboards.
@itsgeorgee1260 Жыл бұрын
Love my Phanteks P500a. Still gon keep it for the next for years but if anyone is debating on getting the p500a or the new G. GET IT. U won’t be disappointed
@ashikurrahmanmanik Жыл бұрын
In terms of feature Lancool 3 is absolute monster, but if you want aesthetics with performance then G500A is better
@Zenefor Жыл бұрын
Why cant mobo companies put the back IO on the same side as the cable management area? Yeah, it could cause a increase in clearance requirement for front components but cases are getting as big as Venezuela's inflation rate so what's the catch?
@evlkenevl2721 Жыл бұрын
The adjustable fan mounting rails are awesome! So simple, yet it's taken this long to be implemented. The top filter is the best-looking one I've seen yet... but it's still a restrictive, unnecessary top filter. Take away the silly cable-cover doors behind the solid side panel and throw in a high-flow top mesh option instead. Edit- I would absolutely have to mount a very thick 360 rad ABOVE the top rails, plus a 420 rad in front, and run push-pull fans on both.
@wiz3905 Жыл бұрын
Will make you keep the case too long. If you are like me, my builds last 10yrs + & I didn't want new cases but chip cooling sizes forced me & I wound up buying both a black and a white phantek Eclipse G360A didn't want to go larger. Haven't built yet, trying to decide whether to add 2x 140mm for top exhaust & 1x 120mm for rear exhaust. Have to see what air flow utube gurus say 🐒As for LEDs going w/1 color & just fan ring light helps
@RealTaIk Жыл бұрын
Bought it because of your review. Thanks I really like it :)
@HaanSoIo Жыл бұрын
Lancool 216 is gonna be my next buy, but this looks like an amazing case as well 😅
@swizzler8053 Жыл бұрын
When is it available?
@mangatom192 Жыл бұрын
@@swizzler8053 Nov 26 iirc.
@thegiovannimauro Жыл бұрын
I just bought a p500a and put all the new parts I got in it a few weeks ago. Doesn't seem like much changed. The biggest thing I think is the mesh cover extending to the rear end of the case and the cable management covers. If they used rubber grommets I might have made the switch in the future.
@stormk-1130 Жыл бұрын
You mean in the temps?
@thegiovannimauro Жыл бұрын
@@stormk-1130 I'm not sure if you meant to reply to me or not, but I was not referring to temps. I was just saying that most of the changes appear to be minor cosmetic stuff and a little quality of life. I would have bought the new case if it came out when I was building mine, but I'm happy with the p500a and I'm not regretting my decision because there's no major changes. The biggest thing for me is that they switched the back panel to a hing design in the g500a which makes the design feel more consistent than the p500a where only the front glass panel is a hinge design.
@kylecorrales9962 Жыл бұрын
They really need to bring back the black and white version of these cases. The all white is too plain. That black and white really popped and let you play with having all white or all black or a mix of colors on your different parts.
@MillisecondFalcon Жыл бұрын
I think from now on, case reviews should probably include a test of how well the biggest 4090 fits and if there is any clearance with the included adapter, and whether or not any included GPU support actually manages to stop it from sagging!! I wonder if we'll see manufacturers coming out with wider cases too?!? 🤔😀
@drr0ck844 Жыл бұрын
I am very strongly considering this case. Looks great! I do have one concern: I plan to use three 3.5 inch mechanical hard drive, which will most likely install under the PSU shroud. I guess there is some air blowing under there from the bottom front fan, but with no other ventilation, that air has nowhere to go. Anyone using this or the P500a with a similar setup and how are HDD temps?
@LiamRodriguez1967 Жыл бұрын
As an owner of the P500a, glad to see phanteks still improving on the design in some ways. Maybe a model or too down the line, I will switch up.
@itsdeonlol Жыл бұрын
The silver screws are a good touch!
@guyknightley3499 Жыл бұрын
I'm using a P500A with 3 140mm fans at around 1500RPM in the front, a 360 AIO at the top as out take with 120mm fans running at 2000 RPM and an outtake in the back as well and this PC cools down my room more than heating it up. So, if they made it even better that's nuts.
@GroundGame. Жыл бұрын
Dang man your studio has some serious drip now, looks so clean in those shots. Well paid off
@JourneyStand Жыл бұрын
One thing I've learned about having built and used many gaming PCs over the years. I just take out the side panel of my PCs and let those component breath, especially SFF PCs. Your system is quiet when under load, only thing you have to do is keep your room clean. lol
@Shawner666Ай бұрын
I bought this case back in november . It seems to decent, my computer is nice and cool.
@Happy-29511 ай бұрын
I'm getting this over the Lancool 3. Thanks for the thermal comparison charts.
@genuinecluelessidiot5254 Жыл бұрын
What are your thoughts between this and the H7 Flow? Personally I prefer NZXT's airflow "monster"
@NAMOR5000 Жыл бұрын
I love the Phantek Case, I have the 500A version using it with an EATX Asus G790 Extreme and wish that as you pointed out that there would be a better , read more space, for the Cables coming and going to the motherboard. I had to remove one of those Plastic Plates to get the Power Cable and USB3 Cable connected, even for the Hard Drive SATA cables its somewhat of an issue. I really wish the case with this new G version would had some improvements in that area. I love all the improvements you showed and am tempted to get a G version, would not kill my wallet . I also noticed and do love the improvement of the Front Fans, LOVE IT! Looks also much better as it is no longer showing the vertical gaps liek in the A version. Kudo Phantek. As to the opening for the showing of the Power supply, I wish the Left side would be a Thinner looking BAR so one can see more of the power supply. I'm using a ASUS 850 PSU with the small display on the side showing the power usage and it has some ARGB too, which all is controlled via the Motherboard software called Armoury Crate.. In addition, it would be nice if PHANTEK would have some sort of slide window so one can open or close the opening pending what size PSU, just a thought since I'm looking to upgrade to a more powerful and thus longer PSU. I also like it that the Solid Side Panel is now on a hinge and the two extra plates hiding the cables, plus as you said has room for some additional SSD's. Also the Magnetic Top cover looks so much more slick, again love it. Perhaps they can make it slightly deeper so an EATX motherboard fits better as described above for Cable management challenge. It would also be 'nice' if the ARGB Fans would be Modular, and the Case have some build in set of connectors to lock in the ARGB Fans and have all Three fans connected that way to one only output cable (s) for the 4 pin PMW and the 3-pin ARGB signal, that would make cable management slick and one of a kind. Less cabled to hide etc. To toss in a last idea / suggestion, have a wireless remote added to start stop and control the RGB, may be too much . Oh before I forget, the case has the option to mount GPU Vertical BUT for some powerful Graphic cards I have seen and am eying it may require 3 PLUS slots so one may not be able to use that vertical. So a little Deeper and wider Case with all it has with the G series now, that would be awesome. If they make one I will buy it for sure. Thank you for the review which is much appreciated, as always. Sincerely and with respect, Namor.
@bluesrike Жыл бұрын
3:55 did I really just hear a bit of the theme song for "Trash Taste"?
@ChandaniAranka Жыл бұрын
Ive never liked RGB lights on my pc so I always choose colorless options and saves money xD
@NickChronic01 Жыл бұрын
love the black with red led , thats how i set up my corsair 750D , also has great airflow
@GlennMcGrewII Жыл бұрын
Thank you! I wish you had a broader variety of case brands in your comparison charts. I have the Corsair iCUE 5000x RGB, so I'm not surprised that the 4000x is hotter. It was recommended to me by a friend but it became clear to me that airflow is not that great. I've got 10 fans for it, though, so now I'm just trying to figure out the optimal arrangement.
@MrSparkefrostie Жыл бұрын
How about mixing and matching the black and white to get 2 mix cases
@TorqueSpike40 Жыл бұрын
Hardware Canucks.....absolutely excellent content and always interesting reviews/topics.
@Gabu_Dono Жыл бұрын
I wonder what difference the Phanteks T30 fans would make, if any.
@bits2646 Жыл бұрын
Nice review, see production value raising with HC, hope it picks up with views
@IrrelevantAndrew Жыл бұрын
I have the p500a and it seems like a great improvement in front & top. Front being stuff like the fans actually being mounted in the front to better show off the DRGB & top mesh panel design seems more solid
@DinkleDooper Жыл бұрын
Phanteks is my Favorite. Got the P600s in grey and it's hard for me to think of replacing it
@TorqueSpike40 Жыл бұрын
I am thinking of the P600S or this. I like that the 600S is slightly bigger, but this case looks great too!
@DinkleDooper Жыл бұрын
@@TorqueSpike40 so I've gotten to the point where p600s is cumbersome on my desk, it's a beast and amazing build quality, it's only when it's time to move it or work it, that it's heft becomes an issue
@jonleibow3604 Жыл бұрын
I was all set to get the Meshify 2, then I heard about the G500A. I couldn't find any reviews for the G500A, so thank you for this. The G500A has a few more advantages, like full openings for the 140 fans at the front (the Meshify takes 140 but the cutouts are made for 120). I'm going to give it a try!
@Emil_E1310 ай бұрын
Hi, I am wondering between the same cases. What do you think after a while is the g500a better than fd meshify 2
@jonleibow360410 ай бұрын
@@Emil_E13 I don't have experience with the Meshify 2, but I am very happy with the G500A, I'm glad I bought it. Lots of room, and fantastic air flow. Temps stay very low, and I just have two fans pulling in the front, and one out the back.
@LeOrangePotato Жыл бұрын
3:55 "Wait a minute, I didn't open any TT videos"
@camotech1314 Жыл бұрын
Very nice one Phanteks, might upgrade to this when I get bored of my 4000D AF. I can see some Lian Li inspiration here.
@JeremyArchie Жыл бұрын
Wow... just like the P500A vs Lancool II battle... now we have G500A vs Lancool III. They're both so good, whichever one is cheaper, wins. Although the Lancool 216 is in a different price segment, it's a solid alternative to either of these.
@arthurpendragon8192 Жыл бұрын
lol at 3:42 using the same bg music as trash taste podcast xD lmao
@exarkunn69 Жыл бұрын
I would buy it purely for the fanless model. Thank you for listening for case builders that have dozens of extra fans and no place to put them.
@Zetraxes Жыл бұрын
my god the colos in this video and the quality is so crisp
@princezen123 Жыл бұрын
Great to see you back brother!
@AnthemPart3 Жыл бұрын
This man is so godly at recording these videos it is insane.
@jonathanchung7209 Жыл бұрын
The lighting, and color grading look great.
@HardwareCanucks Жыл бұрын
Thanks 🤘had a good time with this one -D.
@05DonnieB Жыл бұрын
The only thing I don't like about my P500A is the 24 pin doesn't line up with the sliding doors so the sleeved cables are not straight at all.
@AyaseChan94 Жыл бұрын
The trash taste bgm caught me of guard.
@atherasia Жыл бұрын
fr fr 💀
@nocturnal101ravenous6 Жыл бұрын
I have a P400A DRGB and tbh I only see 2-3 flaws in the case design, They solved that with the fan extension bracket(as long as I can still get in my 420mm rad in the front, as the previous mount covers my Corsair QL 140 fans. I literally have zero issue with the covers but to each his own, I like them better than having just a set of grommets, The other only issue is the watercooling drain plug, its in a real odd area that makes Hardline impossible let alone ethical to try, and not really a flaw but where the 3.5 HDD cages go there is no room in the mess that is your PSU cables.
@natevirtual Жыл бұрын
I actually went ahead and used the PSU cutout to place a small sensor monitor. Pretty useful if you ask me!
@Polyvalent Жыл бұрын
I've been using a Phanteks Enthoo Evolv ITX since it first came out. It turned me into a phanteks fanboy I loved it so much. It still holds up well to this day.
@harun.hussein Жыл бұрын
I love it when dimitri comes up
@balinic2412 Жыл бұрын
Trash Taste Reference? 3:55
@RealBaldnold11 ай бұрын
Great review many thanks
@PindleofKujata Жыл бұрын
I have a Phanteks p500a, and I love it. I wonder if it's different enough to warrant looking at it.
@engahmednofal Жыл бұрын
thanks
@rometherevenant8749 Жыл бұрын
Nice to see that strix 3000 series card instead of the ugly 4000 series in the thumbnail.
@dreamEnd Жыл бұрын
It feels like a combination of P500A, Lancool 3, and GT501. Looks really good, has this been released worldwide yet? I can't seem to find one in where i live sadly.
@skybuck2000 Жыл бұрын
Review the MSI Prospect 700R it is very similiar, perhaps a bit better in certain ways, it does have a little bit less storage, but with 4 sata connectors on most motherboards it kinda fits, unless one wants to have a non-operational harddisk in there as well..
@darkzeroprime5176 Жыл бұрын
I'm coming down to G500A black or o11D Evo grey. I cannot decide.
@bobmichalczik9954 Жыл бұрын
That shadowy area is beyond the boundaries of the Pride Land Simba....
@ericepperson8409 Жыл бұрын
I'll willingly admit that I'm a Phanteks fanboy for them being among the first to embrace airflow designs. Especially for the value that they offer. I feel like they have pushed Lian Li, Fractal, and others to step up thier game. The only thing I didn't care for was the placement of the power button the top of the case where it was too easy to hit it accidently. I love the idea that they moved it to the front of this case.
@HardwareCanucks Жыл бұрын
For sure. I feel like they are all helping move each other forward, but Phanteks is definitely one of the leading brands for a while. -D.
@STUDD_MUFFIN Жыл бұрын
Corsair 5000D Airflow is a winner everyday in my book
@olegstarik8387 Жыл бұрын
Great case no doubt,but overpriced af, for 200 usd better p600s imo
@pointandshootvideo Жыл бұрын
I own the Lancool II and was on the fence about buying the III for my 2nd system. The G500A seems much better than the III.
@ReynaldoAcevedo Жыл бұрын
Would be nice, a comparison with the Lancool 216
@757Bricksquad Жыл бұрын
It looks like almost every other case out there tbh. Just another one to Blend in with the rest.
@Stigness23 Жыл бұрын
I got the same Lego Mustang 😁😁😁
@philalex7256 Жыл бұрын
Looks stunning! have you done a test of the NZXT H7 Flow ?
@darkmanure Жыл бұрын
As a P600s owner, I feelno need to upgrade to this and I think Phanteks are playing it too safe. I prefer the Torrent approach if I were to switch cases.
@ThePokemaniac77 Жыл бұрын
I fking heard the trashtaste intro hahaha... i thought trashtaste was playing in another tab hahaha
@cant_think_of_a_username77959 ай бұрын
Bro needs more views and likes 🙏 this video is mad good and the quality is out of this world 🫶
@cloverhal2284 Жыл бұрын
I can’t understand for the life of me understand why in EU the Lancool III is 229€ vs 189€ for the D-RGB G500A
@vensroofcat6415 Жыл бұрын
Perforated PSU shroud doesn't have the airflow force direct airflow from the front fan does. You have to consider exhaust airflow from the GPU recirculating there. Direct fan blows it away, while perforated shroud airflow is too messed up for that. Slightly confused why do they keep using dust filter on top which is best used for AIO exhaust. To slow it down? Pretty sure many different solutions could be done instead. It's not like this case would have the rotated option. Also rather expensive. Fanless version - thumbs up. That option should be for all cases. Still 140EUR?
@auroraflash Жыл бұрын
I love PHANTEKS :)
@TutonicMonkey Жыл бұрын
Any chance you can check to see if and of the new cards gen cards will actually fit in the vertical GPU mount on this case? It looks like there is exactly 3 slots of space and a 3.5 card will not fit when the side panel is closed (or not have any air flow).
@insomniacbritgaming1632 Жыл бұрын
You could just buy a vertical bracket for the extra space
@jasonbaijens3378 Жыл бұрын
look on the manufacturer website, they almost always give specs about what is supported