An Economist Plays Victoria 3... The Economic Factors of The Scramble for Africa

[@r.s1681]

As an African and paradox fan, I came to this video to have a historical view of the game. I've been well served. The accuracy of the informations and ideas here are amazing. To be honest, it's not easy to find players who know deeply about slavery and colonisation (I can guess why so I don't blame) That's why I subscribe straight!!

[@An_Economist_Plays]

Thank you very much! I believe it is important to help make heard voices that have not been heard before.

[@r.s1681]

@@An_Economist_Plays This is the way

[@楠炯遊戲]

This channel is a hidden gem! Love it!

[@An_Economist_Plays]

Thank you very much! Hopefully, I'll be a plainly-seen gem soon! :-)

[@aapjeaaron]

If you cannot have cavalry you also cannot have artillery. All artillery in this game is reliant on cavalry to move it. If not on the battlefield it's necessary to move it to the battlefield.

[@An_Economist_Plays]

That is true! Excellent point, there. No rail guns or self-propelled artillery until much later in history.

[@surters]

@@An_Economist_Plays Pack-artillery, take a couple of the local draft animals or pay some natives to pull it. Even a small gun makes a great impression.

[@An_Economist_Plays]

Not many local draft animals where the tsetse fly ranges, but a few pieces are possible for mobile operations. Not enough for a full battery, I'd wager, as most conflicts mention individual artillery pieces and not X number of batteries, as we see in European conflicts of the time.

[@Ali-cj8gi]

First part was very informative. Premium content

[@An_Economist_Plays]

Thank you very much! I try to keep current on my research and information.

[@kogeru392]

Love the channel, found it yesterday. Would like to see a bit more gameplay in between, but then again, for some reason I'm sitting here for 47 minutes so maybe what you're doing already is perfect

[@An_Economist_Plays]

I do plan to have more gameplay coming up. It'll give me more time to read up on China before doing a larger lecture on the Scramble for China.

[@andrew6096]

I like the idea of the pacifying troops costing loads of cash, and potentially deterring revolutions that way. Would be cool to have those events give little bits of infamy too - could help simulate things like the Russians intervening in 1877

[@An_Economist_Plays]

Yes, exactly. And there were also nations that requested troops from other nations. Such requests were granted if the requesting nation was able to pay for the upkeep of the troops. There were also cases where the overlord nation sent in troops and then collected customs duties until the operation was paid for - a favorite tactic of the USA's.

[@xtoo550]

This is the first video I've ever watched of you and I stayed both for the history and the game, extremely interesting and well put. Great work!!

[@An_Economist_Plays]

Thanks very much, hope you enjoy the other stuff I've done and will enjoy the stuff I'm about to do! :-)

[@MANFAIC]

The colonization of Africa is even more absurd in EU4, but that's a more "gamey" sort of game anyway. What you said about the Sahel empires being unable to conquer further south due to the tsetse fly is also interesting. I recently had an EU4 campaign where I united the Mossi tribes, and I thought nothing of bringing an army of 20k cavalry down into the Congo. By the way, have you seen the news regarding EU5? The economy seems to be much more realistic, and I think the transition from feudalism to more modern economic systems will be very interesting.

[@An_Economist_Plays]

EU5 is interesting to me, as I got tired of EU4 after it over-corrected things with the focus trees. If EU5 can keep Spain from conquering all of Congo by 1600, I'll consider that an improvement, as well! :-)

[@Naturaldanatureza10]

Well, I like your way of thinking, but in my view of a native Brazilian colonized by Portugal, I can tell you with almost certainty that if the Portuguese had not colonized Brazil, we would be much more technologically behind than we are today. And a bonus, they brought us Christianity this also applies to African countries, keep posting and playing I love your videos

[@An_Economist_Plays]

I myself say that mythology makes things black and white, where history shows them to be qute grey. But we do well to be fully aware of history, that we know what good has been handed down to us from the past, along with recognizing the evils we are better off with discarding.

[@torrent6181]

I really love your history/economic discussion! I also hope Paradox takes note of your suggestions

[@An_Economist_Plays]

That would be nice!

[@BlueHawkPictures17]

42:00 would love to see a strategy game that doesn't understand war & peace in a binary. But I can imagine its hard since its very complex sociology and politics that determines whether something is recognized as war or peacetime activity. Also I do agree wholeheartedly that the secession mechanic needs to be reworked to incorporate a negotiating mechanic.

[@An_Economist_Plays]

I think it could be done if diplomacy was kept open during war. One can dream.

[@ExpedientFalcon]

Completely agree with the changes you talked about. One of the Ultra Historical mods does at least address the conquering issue you mentioned, by requiring Civilizing Mission and Colonial Exploitation before being able to invade African nations (as a non-African nation), and nicely includes the Quinine tier 3 change, though they are certainly in that category of overhaul mods you've been shying away from. Still no solution to the complete lack of meaningful native resistance, unfortunately.

[@An_Economist_Plays]

Seeing the Dev Diary for today, I am hopeful that a Great Game mechanic can be extended to cover other regions. That could revise colonization so it's done properly. One can hope!

[@Stoic_Zoomer]

Wow, you're just as good as the historian's craft channel. I'm so glad KZbin recommended you to me! I'd very much like to hear a lecture by you on capitalism and socialism, or better yet you've already made such videos. From what you've said here, I may have the wrong idea about economic systems... “If someone is able to show me that what I think or do is not right, I will happily change, for I seek the truth, by which no one was ever truly harmed. It is the person who continues in his self-deception and ignorance who is harmed.” ― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

[@An_Economist_Plays]

I thank you for the quote, which tells me it is better to emerge from a discussion with a question than with a sureness of thought.

[@sureee_kidsure9180]

39:47 Those expeditions are also rather useless in that they only give you 100 prestige for all the time and bureaucracy invested. If completing them gave you a claim to the area where you could either violently return the states, purchase them, or colonize them unopposed, then they'd be paramount if a country wants to colonize Africa.

[@An_Economist_Plays]

Bingo! I barely do them anymore, knowing it's a bunch of clicking to just keep a general or admiral busy.

[@sureee_kidsure9180]

@@An_Economist_Plays Looks like Spheres of Influence will be adding an expedition that does more than give prestige. Hopefully a positive direction for the game

[@muhammadsbah6464]

I love that you touched on this topic. I couldn’t help but notice how overpowered the great powers are in terms of colonization in Vicky 3. It’s pretty annoying that you can economically induce pain on an opponent’s African territories hoping for a revolution just for nothing to happen. I want to be able to influence French colonies to rebel against the France as a strategy to reduce their access to input goods and decimate their economy. The challenges Europe faced in Africa are not simulated well at all

[@An_Economist_Plays]

This may be changing in the 1.7 DLC, as far as influencing areas to break free. We shall see. I am currently testing a mod that promises better revolts as well as business cycles. Early running is promising with that one, I'll have more on that soon.

[@Albatross257]

Hey I recently discovered your channel and find both very educational about history and a great way to learn about Victoria 3. I'm not the best player but you've really helped me improve my game. Thank you for the great content

[@An_Economist_Plays]

And thank you for your kind words!

[@williamday9628]

I feel like they deliberately left the colonization (particularly of Africa) intentionally quite vague for the future DLC. I have never seen the "Scramble for Africa" event actually be completed because Africa never gets fully carved up, the existing centralized countries cost too much infamy (unrealistic amounts) to be worth it. The way colonies progress also seems a bit primitive and basic, how they just expand in a random direction, and the AI just grabs whatever it has adjacent to it. A proper Berlin Conference, with some level of pre determined colonies, that triggers when malaria prevention is discovered could be good. I also feel the same about quinine, it should perhaps only allow you to colonize coasts or something like that until full malaria prevention is invented. Lastly I feel like the game doesn't really make colonies seem worth it beyond specific resources like rubber, gold and oil. Generally having just free land to put cash crop plantations on should have more value (I feel like the value of these products in general feels too low for the time period). But in conclusion, I agree it needs a more historically accurate rework.

[@An_Economist_Plays]

100% on this, it really feels like a later DLC. I played with ramped-down infamy and completed the Scramble and all I got was a t-shirt and like 100 prestige or something minor. It was a very anticlimactic. If we had Palm Oil as a good, then it would be all hands on the Niger basin.

[@arcadecactus4780]

FIRST COMMENT YESS! I JUST FOUND THIS CHANNEL AND I LOVE IT!!!!

[@An_Economist_Plays]

I am glad you found it and if you've liked and subscribed, you've completed the Magic Triad of KZbin! :-)

[@valleyplays]

Excellent! Loved watching this 💛

[@An_Economist_Plays]

Thanks, mate!

[@ihateyourmum1000]

This channel should and will eventually have a million subscribers

[@An_Economist_Plays]

And to think you got in on the ground level! Thanks for your support!

[@batavi4568]

Very interesting video! Your garrison idea is a very good one, I hope to see it someday, it already exists in hoi4 and even eu4 to a certain extent so it shouldn't be too far fetched. what I think could be an interesting change would be to make Quinine an actual trade good that would be consumed by the colonies in malaria regions, slowing down colonisation growth if you don't have a sufficient supply.

[@GustavSvard]

Quinine as a trade good! YES! This is a smashing idea. Might require new mechanics to be able to have it be a requirement for troops & pops that aren't of the right type (hm, a flag for the culture similar to brits loving tea, but harsher effect?) would get severe punishments in attrition, pop growth rate, & SoL? Combine that with anything but multiculturalism and you get Europeans not actually able to conquer or hold much of anything in the affected regions. Combine with a better system for staking claims, and for recognizing others' claims etc, via expeditions and trade posts and conferences, and now you're cooking with induction! darn it, now I'm getting more ideas. Copying to longer own post :D

[@An_Economist_Plays]

Have it as a mobilization option and only activated - and quite costly to activate - formations would be eligible to not melt away in tropical heat. Exceptions for formations raised in-country.

[@LP-ow4hw]

What about making quinine an actual product with associated PMs and making it an mobilisation option, giving armies not using it huge debuffs in those those malaria regions. With some options for the decentralised and centralised african nations to counterplay it. Quinine could even be an discovourable resource Also there needs to be an option for limited military engagements, the scale of conflict is out of comtrol right now. Some of the proposal for military tweaks in tis vid and commentsection are pretty good I think.

[@An_Economist_Plays]

I like that as a mobilization option. Making it costly would keep it from being something that everyone clicks on just because. Love that idea!

[@cbbcbb6803]

Thomas Jefferson said he wanted to build an empire of justice. Problem with all colonialism is that you cab either build colonialism or you can build justice, but not both. As I see it, that is the real choice, one or the other, and not both.

[@ThomasDega]

I very much enjoy your comments about history and economics; however, your recent videos seem to be missing the PLAY of 'An Economist Plays Victoria 3'. In fact the Victoria 3 commentary is not about game play but about game design. Could you please make it clear which videos contain gameplay and which do not. Labeling everything as 'An Economist Plays' and then spending nearly 50 minutes without any gameplay is very misleading. Please do continue the historical and economic commentary, you do a great job at that. The game design lectures should be directed at Paradox and separate from any reference to gameplay.

[@An_Economist_Plays]

Absolutely, titles help to set expectations. I can attend to that, probably going forward, as changing the title after launch can wreck how it reaches an audience.

[@ThomasDega]

@@An_Economist_Plays Great thanks! I look forward to viewing more of your content.

[@elimacmichael3147]

Loved the cut off at the end.

[@An_Economist_Plays]

I'm a ham, I confess. :-D

[@yeetjohann2114]

Btw i love your attitiude generally but especially in this video haha :D

[@jihunpark3564]

I don’t know if you can but if possible can you do this kind of stuff for eu4(Europa universalis 4)?

[@An_Economist_Plays]

I might, but it is more likely I'll take on earlier history when EU5 comes out. I have not had fun in EU4 for a number of years and need a fresh start if I'm to get back into that series.

[@jihunpark3564]

@@An_Economist_Plays ok thanks for letting me know though.

[@aaronhpa]

Yes, Yes and Yes

[@dharmictribulations]

People don’t just profit from Chinese prison camps… Any country that uses prison labor has people that profit from that labor. I hear there’s a country that even leases out prisoners as low wage labor for McDonald’s!

[@yeetjohann2114]

LIKE AND COMMENT FOR THE ALGORHITHM

[@An_Economist_Plays]

ALGO BOIZ IN DA HAUS!!! And thank you very much!

[@civishamburgum1234]

I don't know, weather the system in Victoria II was that much better, beacuse while it definitly prohibited early colonisation, it was horrobly easy to expoloit by players,, becasue the discovery of Colonial Negotiations was dependant on multiple technologies, that player could use his preknowledge to fence of large parts of the continent for himself even as a realitly small nation, with just movin into Tunisia, Sansibar, and North Angola. Afterwards the player would be almost infinitly strong.

[@An_Economist_Plays]

That is something in common with small nations in both Vicky 2 and 3, finding "gamey" strategies to get on the same level as a major/great power. All the same, if a player held back from "gamey" strategies with personal rules, Victoria 2 could produce a better map of Africa, as the AI would restrain itself. The issue of players going "gamey" and abusing holes in systems for advantage is something that some players who enjoy small nations want to use to enjoy the game. It's a tricky issue from a designer perspective whether or not to keep those open or close them off.

[@civishamburgum1234]

@@An_Economist_Plays It's definitly a tricky issue, but i still think, that Vicky 3 handles these better than II, beacue there is a higher interlocking betwen different systems, that organicly put on break shoes onto exploits. in terms of colnisatin that means for exaple that there is no colonial snowballing anymore, where a states becomes a protectorate and immediatly get's all the tech bonusses apllied to the RGO wich made the colonization essentially finance itself. I think that btw the early colonization is an issue that was added postrelease becaus I'm relatively sure that the AI would respect Malaria at realease.

[@1vantheterrible814]

COUGH FANS RISE UP 💪💪💪

[@lavabeard5939]

is it true that hut tax took 100% of the workers wages?

[@An_Economist_Plays]

Sadly, yes. Unoccupied huts would also be taxed and the entire village or district be assessed on the number of huts. The work required would also conflict with agricultural activities, placing communities in danger of famine if they did the work to pay the tax. The amount of violence used in maintaining the British Empire is often overlooked and vastly understated.

[@TheMoroPL]

@@An_Economist_Plays Hello sir, I like the video, lots of interesting information. However I'd like to say that connecting the hut tax to capitalism like you did in the video is nonsensical, it's a prime example of state interventionist nonsense, something contrary to capitalism.

[@An_Economist_Plays]

@@TheMoroPL I would say contrary to laissez-faire capitalism, but there are certainly capitalists that have beckoned for state involvement when it suits their wants and needs.

[@TheMoroPL]

@@An_Economist_Plays There certainly is no need for capitalist to ask for any tax increases on anybody, since it's then also his burden, directly on indirectly. If anything, a capitalist can ask the government to bend the rules already imposed by it in his favor, and govs are always easily corruptible.

[@mustard_owl5650]

the slave trade = the black dots damn that didnt come out good

[@janipiot]

I'd love to know more about the investments Europeans made in Africa and see how it compares to the resources taken away. You said colonies were an economic loss mostly, but the Europeans kept investing while extracting. In the aftermath, a lot of the European investment that also significantly improved life in the colonies was destroyed and left to rot for what I can only assume are ideological reasons after they left: "White man bad etc." Yes Africa suffered and was taken apart, however I'd be curious to see how much of the misery there today is home-made so to speak. Because in Asia, the stuff Europeans left behind was mostly left intact, cared for and somestimes even expanded and built upon. All you ever hear is "colonialism bad" and I don't want to deny the horrible treatment of natives, but what about the good things? Stopping brutal tribal practices, bringing order and government/administrative systems to the region etc. What's the value of that? I was in Qingdao a few years ago and was told there that the canalisation system built by the Germans over a century ago still works today and can even deal with heavier rainfall better than the modern Chinese one. What about stuff like that? Surely it can't have been all bad?

[@An_Economist_Plays]

It was thought they were unprofitable, but data show that most returned good profits for owners of ventures there. Considering most owners had security costs covered by the state, this would be an example of an indirect subsidy. The greatest burden of colonialism was locking nations into being producers of primary materials as opposed to intermediary or finished goods. With that came harsh social structures and an absence of workplace protections that were emerging in Europe. The imposition of de facto slavery left much resentment for colonization.

[@YWNBARW2]

Lol, that terribly inaccurate thumbnail.

[@An_Economist_Plays]

Yes, not enough gold on Europe and the USA. I agree.

[@YWNBARW2]

@An_Economist_Plays these colonies were net drains on Europe's economies, which is one reason they abandoned them in the post-war period. The idea that a bunch of illiterate tribal africans were going to be able to exploit these resources on an industrial scale is ridiculous. Europe got wealthy because of industrialization and their mercantile practices. Not by "stealing" African gold. Typical leftwing Marxist trash.

[@s4098429]

Labour relations were indeed immoral, but all societies both European or African employed such relations, what difference does it make what colour the beneficiaries of this relationship were? Isn’t all inslavement/subjugation equally bad? Regardless of the races involved?

[@An_Economist_Plays]

Rather than addressing the quality of the cruelty, I think it's important to take on the justifications used to excuse the cruelty. When racism is used, and it is used often, it should be recognized as such, so that we may better understand how to remove such illogic from our own thinking. It is not about condemning, but healing, ultimately.

[@celdur4635]

Egypt and the other African powers did the same exploitation and worse, and they are poor.

[@An_Economist_Plays]

They themselves were also exploited. There can be layers of exploitation. None of them excuse the other.

[@Doosteroni]

I think it was a very poor choice to use that thumbnail

[@An_Economist_Plays]

I found it symbolic of the economic impact on Africa - the transactions were exploitative, to say the least.

[@Doosteroni]

@@An_Economist_Plays I just think it is a misnomer. There isn’t missing wealth from Africa that is absent because it was taken by Europeans

[@An_Economist_Plays]

@Doosteroni there was wealth created for the benefit of Europeans through the exploitation of African labor and resources.

[@Doosteroni]

@@An_Economist_Plays sure, that is no doubt. But is there wealth “stolen” from Africa like this image implies? I mean wealth isn’t slices of a limited pie, it is obviously created. So I just feel like this image implies that the Europeans had hollowed out Africa and left the continent barren and empty

[@An_Economist_Plays]

@Doosteroni if the wealth is created from the forced labor of millions, I would consider that a criminal enterprise, even if under the guise of a state authority. Their freedom was stolen from them.