An Evening With Rev. David: The Story Behind a Historic Letter About Biblical Translation

Kathy Baldock speaks with Reverend David, the author of a recently-discovered 1959 letter challenging the introduction of the word "homosexual" into the Bible, at The Reformation Project's Reconcile and Reform conference in Seattle on Friday, November 8, 2019. Learn more about this remarkable story here: canyonwalkerconnections.com/fo....
In 1959, a young, gay seminary student named David wrote a letter to the head of the Revised Standard Version biblical translation team challenging the RSV’s use of the word “homosexual” in 1 Corinthians 6:9. David wrote: “I write… because of my deep concern for those who are wronged and slandered by the incorrect usage of this word. Since this is a Holy Book of Scripture sacred to the Christian, I am the more deeply concerned because well-meaning and sincere, but misinformed and misguided people may use this Revised Standard Version translation of 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 as a sacred weapon, not in fact for the purification of the Church, but in fact for injustice against a defenceless minority group.”
Dr. Luther Weigle, the Dean of Yale Divinity School and the head of the translation committee, wrote back to David and admitted that the RSV translation was wrong-leading to a change in a later version of the RSV to the more generic phrase “sexual perverts” rather than a specific condemnation of gay people. The letters between David and Dr. Weigle remained buried in the Yale Archives until Kathy Baldock and her colleague Ed Oxford found them in 2018. Remarkably, Kathy was able to connect with David, who is now over 80 years old and a retired pastor in Canada. Here, he shares his story publicly.

[@TressBraga]

I'm overcome with tears because I can't believe how blessed I am to have stumbled upon this video. The last two hours I spent watching it have completely changed my life! I no longer feel the burden of false condemnation I had felt since I was kid. I can live my life in peace as a gay Christian whose life mission is to worship our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I want to be just like Rev. David S. one day!

[@ryanflanagan9624]

this is the gospel the greatest news you can ever hear God is holy. God is love. read and see how much God loves 😊 we broke God’s law, the Ten Commandments written on our heart by our God given conscious (lying, stealing, using God’s Name in vain, looking with lust which is adultery in the heart hating our brother is murder etc. even this is sin) Jesus paid our fine on the cross with His death and shedding of blood. He took our punishment on the cross, God pays us in death for our sin and Jesus took our punishment, paying our fine in full. while Jesus did not deserve to die He did so willingly to save us from sin and death and hell and give us life forevermore. Jesus rose again from the dead and by His blood our sins are forgiven. Jesus is alive forevermore as He is King of kings and Lord of lords and He saves all who put their faith and repent of sin in Truth. God can legally let us live forever, we broke His law Jesus paid our fine, He can do what is legal and just and right let us walk on judgment day. in response to what God has done you have to put your faith in Jesus to save you and repent of sin turn from it and deny self pick up cross daily and follow Jesus. when you put your faith in Jesus and repent of sin, confess and forsake, God will give you a new heart and spirit that loves righteousness that is a personal miracle for sin loving humans, so if you want a personal miracle seek after God with a whole heart and you will find Jesus, follow God’s ways and watch His work in your life He will never leave or forsake you and never let you down. read your Bible God’s perfect Word ask The Holy Spirit to guide you as Jesus is The Living Word. always remember Jesus loves you that is why He saves us all! ✝️❤️< check out living waters KZbin God bless kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4vHp2CKqc6Aock

[@gabivsgketologic]

God bless you ❤️🏳️‍🌈 God loves you 🏳️‍🌈❤️

[@kimsteinke713]

I was blind and now I see it's a wonderful feeling isn't it brother welcome to seeing because you're hearing opens your heart and now you see you have found the kingdom of God within 👍😇😇🙏🌈

[@kimsteinke713]

And another Angel got his wings amen be free brother you're right it took me 52 years and I almost died three times so yes I'm 60 I made it through the maze you hang in there buddy you got your wings. And don't let anybody else tell you to hate yourself again love yourself from here on out. 🙏🌈😇

[@jamesjohn2909]

Vegas Zen.Which Christ do you want to worship.The true Christ or the false Christ.You can say you are blessed but from the Bible perspective you are lost unless you either remain single and ask for Gods mercy to change or you will never be saved but die in your Sin and burn in hell.

[@lloydloots90]

As a gay Christian I have been waiting for a sign to live without condemnation. This research has an measurable amount of value to me and my life and spirituality. I can't wait for the book and documentary

[@elomp3s]

Hi Lloyd, this video would give you a better understanding of what the word of God said about homosexuality. Deep inside you, your spirit knows the truth that's why you've always felts that way within you. kzbin.info/www/bejne/l2amp6N5h798rdk

[@coachauntcandy5489]

I'm so thankful you found this!!! I'm so thankful I found it too! May God RICHLY BLESS YOU in your life to live freely and have life to the full!!!

[@ryanflanagan9624]

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]homosexuals, nor [b]sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were [c]sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. 1 corininthians 6:9-11 living waters youtube, i think you would enjoy. time is passing by quickly today is the day of salvation read and see how much God loves you and wants you to be saved For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God john 3:16-18 Jesus loves you that is why we went to the cross He is risen amen! we broke God's law and out just due is death. that is why we need Jesus, for Jesus paid the fine for our transgression on the cross taking away the sins of the world. by His blood our sins are forgiven. God's gift is eternal life in Christ Jesus, but if we reject God's gift and our sin remains then our just due is death. God loves us so much Jesus died on the cross to save us all. Jesus did not deserve to die but willingly went to the cross to save us from the punishment we deserve. . its as simple as this, we broke God's law and Jesus paid the fine on the cross. He died on the cross and by His blood our sins are forgiven. Jesus alone saves all people for He alone is God. Jesus rose again the third day death and has victory over sin and death forever Jesus is King of kings Lord of lords and Jesus alone gives life everlasting to all who call upon His Name in Truth. come to Jesus and put your faith in Him. Repent from your sin and pick up your cross daily and follow Jesus in Jesus Name we pray amen

[@its_fergie7984]

@@ryanflanagan9624 shush and listen to actually proof and evidence we trying to listen 🤫

[@ryanflanagan9624]

@@its_fergie7984 the proof is in God's Word it says homosexuals with not inherit God's Kingdom, God loves them and wants them to be saved and all to be saved and i share out of love i want that person and all to be saved

[@stephanielandon8041]

I am barely 8 minutes into watching this video and I lost it watching Reverend David walk onto the stage. I am so grateful for his courage in writing the letter and for the courage of Kathy, Matthew Vines and everyone else from The Reformation Project for their hard work on this issue.

[@fedraa3967]

I am a muslim transgender woman, and watching this has been so important and encouraging. It makes me feel at peace and it gives me hope. I thank God for making this video makes it way to me. And may we queer christians, muslims and jews find support and community in one another. God bless Rev. David and everyone involved in this research. Jazakallah Kahyr

[@alanaban3519]

What do you mean now what are you do u have male are female body parts

[@savio1701d]

I wanted to be a priest. But, I literally kneeled down for prayer one day and accepted hell if that's what God had in store for me. All because I read the bible some people decided to misquote. I am catholic so I can't be a priest anyway (and have sex/marry), and a gay priest would go straight to hell that existed, I thought. I was molested as a child and I would never do that to any person. I felt guilty since I read these lines in the bible when I was 14. I went into depression for over 10 years after I read this. A time I will never get back. Listening to his journey and his calling made me cry. I am not a priest, but now I own an LGBTQIA+ NGO called Color Positive and I do my bit. I really want to thank Kathy and Rev David for his revelation and the head of RSV who kept a record of this. I do feel at peace knowing the truth.

[@cathy7382]

I think that homosexuality as an ongoing practice is sin, but having said that, the orientation isn't I have struggled with SSAs since I was a teenager and had my 1st relationship at 16, which ended in heartbreak At the time I hadn't given my life to Jesus, but did when I was 19. It was truly transformational There was no doubt I had been born again, I didn't act out, nor did I want to, but the attractions didn't go away. I was so enamored with the Lord, that it wasn't a big deal Unfortunately, I left my church and got involved with some gay friends, and hooked up with a few women I met at clubs, all ended quickly and left me holding the bag emotionally I did after relocating to Austin TX, rededicated my life to Jesus and I was happy to be back on track Found a good Baptist church, had a small group bible study, and a job. Still had troublesome attractions though. For me, it hasn't been easy, and I feel that being SSA is more of a liability, and if I could start my life over, definitely would have perfered Heterosexuality, but as Paul said, I am what I am by the grace of God. I am a single and haven't acted out for many yrs. by the grace of God, and have a great reduction of the attractions Praise God for His love!!!

[@kimsteinke713]

But remember many of us gay people have went before you got married tried to make ourselves straight It doesn't work God did not create you and then demand you to be straight That's what people do You need to read ancient history ancient civilization and understand the last 2,000 years and remember the internet was only turned on in 2008.

[@babyfaced1403]

​@cathy7382 hello there thanks for sharing your testimony. When you had the hookups with the girls, were you attracted to the girls or you just did it to try to distract from your ssa? Also, after listening to the new information found in the video, are you curious how it may relate to same-sex marriage.

[@Jimdust69]

Thank you from the bottom of my heart to Rev. David & Kathy, a truly God’s revelation. Let the truth set us all free. God bless you abundantly

[@jamesjohn2909]

Jimdust69.True Revelation. Oh wow!.You are certainly lost my friend.

[@patriciahargraves4243]

​​@Jimdust2909.True Revelation, you are the one who is certainly lost sir! There is only one man that has ever walked this earth Sin free, and that man is Jesus. I also think you need to reread Colossians 3. Where, Paul, reminds us that everyone in court is guilty and every person there is considered a sinner. That includes you sir for casting a stone without being sin free yourself. God bless you and may the truth of the Bible come to your heart. Jesus equals love. Not love of a selected few but love of all even you too sir.

[@coachauntcandy5489]

I cried so many times during this video. What an absolute GOD SEND you are David, and Kathy, and I am so excited to read the book and join the movement to help the church embrace the LGBTQ+ community.

[@kimsteinke713]

Exactly and if this ain't the Holy Spirit working today I tell my family who's been shunning me for almost all of my life 60 years now they're missing the best part of Jesus cuz this is the holy spirit working right in front of us amen I see God and all of this I didn't think it was going to turn out like this but it makes it even the more prophetic God used the simple things of the world to confound the wise and if gay people aren't silly and simple I don't know what it is it's just like God to go and flip everything on its head when he doesn't like the way things are running and I guess God didn't like it. 🌈🙏😇

[@MattNightingale]

Beautiful. Thank you. I was mesmerized from start to finish. So grateful for the work of Rev. David, Kathy Baldock and The Reformation Project.

[@williamkeeler2]

My question is this: If the Bible was to condemn homosexual activity, what Greek word would the writer use?

[@MusicalRaichu]

@@williamkeeler2 there was word for it because there was no concept or category for liking/bedding the same or opposite secs. artificially lumping gynephilic women and androphilic men into a single category only happened in modern times.

[@Moodlez1]

I was crying at the end, thank you! Thank you Rev. David for having the courage to write that letter to the board to demand the change of the wording of the text, I very much doubt they would ever have changed it had you remained silent and not challenged them. Thank you Kathy and Ed for all your research and putting your heart and soul into everything that you do. Thank you to Rocky and the Team for making '1946' and to Matthew Vines and the Reformation Project for all that you're doing. You're bringing hope and healing to so many LGBTQ+ Christians like myself, this is literally life saving for all of us!! Sending all the love from the UK!

[@ryanflanagan9624]

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]homosexuals, nor [b]sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were [c]sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. 1 corininthians 6:9-11 living waters youtube, i think you would enjoy. time is passing by quickly today is the day of salvation read and see how much God loves you and wants you to be saved For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God john 3:16-18 Jesus loves you that is why we went to the cross He is risen amen! we broke God's law and out just due is death. that is why we need Jesus, for Jesus paid the fine for our transgression on the cross taking away the sins of the world. by His blood our sins are forgiven. God's gift is eternal life in Christ Jesus, but if we reject God's gift and our sin remains then our just due is death. God loves us so much Jesus died on the cross to save us all. Jesus did not deserve to die but willingly went to the cross to save us from the punishment we deserve. . its as simple as this, we broke God's law and Jesus paid the fine on the cross. He died on the cross and by His blood our sins are forgiven. Jesus alone saves all people for He alone is God. Jesus rose again the third day death and has victory over sin and death forever Jesus is King of kings Lord of lords and Jesus alone gives life everlasting to all who call upon His Name in Truth. come to Jesus and put your faith in Him. Repent from your sin and pick up your cross daily and follow Jesus in Jesus Name we pray amen

[@ryanflanagan9624]

@David Vanpattwn yes and amen, God's Word is Truth have you been born again? Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.” john 14:6-7 amen

[@ryanflanagan9624]

@David Vanpattwn let us keep everyone here in our prayers in Jesus Name we pray amen, if you have any prayers requests let me know and i will pray in Jesus Name we pray amen living waters youtube, i think you will enjoy But [a]sanctify [b]the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; 1 peter 3:15 pray continually, pray for The Lord's will to be done Jesus has healed my aunt from cancer, praise Jesus! saved my cousin from sucide and healed baby wesley praise The Lord Jesus in Jesus Name we pray amen! please pray for The Lord's will to be done for ryans cousin to be healed from cancer and for philip to be healed, and kelly and david and his cousin to be saved in Jesus Name we pray amen please pray for jack and jack for The Lord's will to be done and to be saved amen! please pray for alex, colleen, powell, eva, charlie, andrew, william, elias and mr artic for them to be saved may The Lord's will be done please pray for max vives boris b and arcturus and david and their families to be saved and for philip to be helped by The Lord the pastors stuck in afghanistan and for all people over there, the people in africa and the people in haiti and in the world, may The Lord's will be done may The Good Word The Gospel fall on good soil and bear good fruit and bring Godly sorrow unto repentance unto salvation, that people may have miracle moments in coming to put their faith in Jesus and repent of sin, to turn from the power of satan to God and from the kingdom of darkness into Light that they may be born again and saved, that The Lord keep them safe and deliver them all in Jesus Name we pray amen kzbin.info/www/bejne/f6ncpqmapMSGoMk

[@lukeodhiambo1994]

The word of God is not researched, it is revealed by God Himself to His chosen servants through the Spirit of God. The word of God is only found in the Bible, not books written by the so-called bible scholars who want your money.

[@sherisamson9621]

As a Christian (raised in religious legalism) and a proud, loving Mother of an Adult Gay Son, I so appreciate this knowledge, transparent wisdom, research and fact-finding that has been done on behalf of so many loved ones in the LGBTQ community. Too many losses, rejections and shame has been pounded into those within this different truth. Thank you for this interview and presentation, which I am forwarding to many. Truly, The Truth Will Set You Free!

[@Victoria-wy7hb]

can't wait for the book and documentary!!!

[@jowalchester]

Amazing simply incredible work from both Kathy and Reverend David, so grateful to you both. It brought me to tears throughout! I really believe the work you are doing will restore lost hope and faith in so many people, I am one of those people. Everyone needs to know this story.

[@gizelle1]

Would you believe the B i b l e never condemned grand theft auto until the 1946? It said the act of stealing is wrong but a mistranslation calling it grand theft auto is when theives started feeling bad because absolutely no one had connected the act of theft with grand theft auto before this awful mistranslation!

[@celiasandaniels]

Thank you...I am speechless. Thank you for sharing this amazing video.

[@JenOverThinks]

Been waiting for this!!! Kathy Baldock’s work is incredible!! Thank you so much

[@kimsteinke713]

She's an angel the work she has done is immeasurable she is freed so many LGBT people from suicide that she doesn't even know about and setting families free if we can get her work in front of my family. That's what everyone thinks and says. 🙄😇🌈🙏

[@soggybogwitch]

I know they had to keep a strict schedule, but I'd love to sit and hear Rev. David just recount his whole life story

[@DewDrop404]

That story is amazing.

[@MacheMalada]

David S is a living testimony

[@Cdub1717]

This was a greatest interview- it was consistently enthralling.

[@njramirez7567]

Absolutely touching, a testament of Gods love

[@Froggy_flower2030]

This was truly wonderful and emotional. Thank you so much for allow us to be part of this truly amazing conversation 🙏🏻💕🙌 please keep on doing the good and hard work! So many of us appreciate you!! 💕

[@sistarhymz5051]

Love wins!!!!!

[@MusicalRaichu]

The letter from 1959 is in the same year that I found the earliest reference to this issue in a bible commentary. John Murray's commentary on Romans in reference to Romans 1 talks about "the homsoecsual abominashon". David was already too late.

[@joaquinboscheseverri9159]

Thank you

[@brandonleans]

This honestly needs to be rectified asap as it's an incorrect translation! That is amazing research done and to think there is actual proof. Wow.

[@miketrek8105]

Absolutely beautiful! Thank You for Sharing ❤️👏✝️🫂

[@Jenny-px5tu]

Already pre-ordered the book. Order it, read it, pass it along. This is revolutionary stuff!

[@ellenadams7354]

Can I buy this book on audio? Thank & God Bless you ❤

[@art3misplays265]

I feel hopeful seeing all the joy in the comments. I am a young adult, non binary person. My mom sent me this video, so exited to have found a resource to go with her questions about her upbringing. Do the research. Seek to change your minds. You might affirm your beliefs, or you might discover something new.

[@rtjahyadi7868]

RIP Reverend David

[@kimsteinke713]

Miraculous 🌈🙏😇

[@stephaniej8237]

I needed this! thank you

[@peterjscardino]

Thank you so much for what you're doing!

[@zee3peo]

Incredible....

[@CalloohCalley]

What a beautiful story. Oh, his relationship with Joe just sounds like heaven. Any pastors out there who need their trailers cleaned? I'd make a good househusband. I wonder if Rev. David knows how many lives he's touched here on earth. What a beautiful soul.

[@fedricksampson4870]

Wow!

[@jamiew.6118]

Omg love this absolutely amazing! 💕 Thank you for making a bridge of pure love and knowledge! 💕

[@michaelm5601]

This was amazing… I have a few questions after watching 1946.’ How can I email them. I’ve have never felt so happy and sad at the same time, I cried for an hour and couldn’t sleep last night.. How can I support the broken that have walked away from God.

[@bradwalker7233]

Wow awesome the goodness of God and what a miracle of love!!!🙏✝️🕊🔥🫂🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈😍😍😍

[@ZipplyZane]

I haven't listened to the whole thing yet, so perhaps this is answered. But I'm curious if that letter with its appendix has been published. I would be very interested to see this research.

[@susanjones5715]

I’m curious if this is only in the Protestant Bible, I’m Catholic so I don’t know if the word is in my Bible

[@iitickle6510]

PLEASE SHARE THIS

[@MusicalRaichu]

I just heard that Rev. David passed away. Is that correct?

[@shabdallah7678]

Yes

[@canyonwlkr]

Yes, he died peacefully in his home at his dining room table at the beginning of the year.

[@keithrogers4170]

When is the book coming out,Kathy?

[@DannyHall]

So many people forget... we are ALL sinners and fall short of the glory of God. But we are ALL His children and the recipients of His Love. Singling out one group of people because of a perception of sin ignores these teachings. It also ignores the teachings about the mote and the beam... So many Christians don't know their own teachings or ignore them or misapply them or purposefully apply them incorrectly.

[@Mabeylater293]

Only one problem with your comment: HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT A SIN

[@ronnywhite5602]

...to work so hard to say the Bible doesn't say what it says.

[@MusicalRaichu]

It's not uncommon for English or other translations not to say what the original Bible says. Changing male-bedder to homoxesual in English Bibles is only one example. They change Gehenna to heII, "deliver justice" to "inflict vengeance", and "unseemly" to "shameless" for instance.

[@andrearenee7845]

Religion, political discourse, racism are the three pillars that kill hope.

[@Dave-if5qj]

Don't be deceived

[@Dissonance333]

44:54 the actual letter

[@georgevirgo8414]

Is the letter published online somewhere? I would like to read it myself.

[@canyonwlkr]

No. It will not be published until the book comes out. It will be in the book. We are working on all the corresponding rights.

[@georgevirgo8414]

@@canyonwlkr What is the title of the book and when is it expected to come out?

[@lecommentateur9388]

@@canyonwlkr This deserves be published on The New York Times! I'm not joking.. That story means so much to many people around the world. Thanks for sharing!

[@canyonwlkr]

@@georgevirgo8414 Forging a Sacred Weapon: How the Bible became Anti-Gay, spring 2021

[@canyonwlkr]

@@lecommentateur9388 THANK YOU, it will be a book in the spring and it will flow out from there!

[@Elirowlo]

incredible.

[@KasePrince]

The Torah Connection Do not lie with a male as one lies with a woman (mishkevei ishah); it is an abhorrence. -Leviticus 18:22 Do not lie with a male as one lies with a woman. Hebrew mishkevei ishah means literally “after the manner of lying with a woman” by the introduction of the male member. Male homosexuality is associated with the ancient Canaanites, if we are to judge from biblical literature. Two biblical narratives highlight this theme, one about the men of Sodom in Genesis 19, and the other concerning the fate of the concubine at Gibeah in Judges 19. Although Gibeah was an Israelite town, the story clearly implies that Gibeah’s Israelite residents had descended to the abominable ways of the surrounding Canaanites...Both of these accounts place the phenomenon of male homosexuality in a particular context: xenophobia. The extreme fear of strangers induces a community to attack visitors. In both of the stories cited here, the form of attack was homosexual acts. ...There has been considerable speculation as to why lesbianism is not explicitly forbidden in the Torah. In due course rabbinic interpretation added this prohibition as well.

[@DavidKnowles]

This is such a painful and difficult topic. My heart sincerely goes out to every individual struggling with this topic. However, with the greatest love and respect, one has to be a scriptural contortionist to argue away every biblical reference to contend that God supports and rewards the LGBTG+ lifestyle. It's the same as a loving, caring, dedicated, but fornicatory heterosexual relationship; it condemned. And likewise with, divorced couples who remarry for any other reason than adultery. That too is condemned. These are difficult things to accept, especially within westernized cultures, where feelings supersede the scientific and scriptural truth. This is idolatry of emotions. Remember, every person has urges that must not acted upon. Myself included. We can not, and must not, give ourselves over -like an untamed animal's- to every impulse that arises within us. This is what the scriptures clearly teach. God help us, learn to die to put to death the old man, and live to Christ. I sincerely wish you all 🤍 the very best.

[@MusicalRaichu]

Here are some commonly heard "scriptural contortions": Bible: Do not lie with a male as one beds a woman contortion: Do not lie with the same secs Bible: idolatrous gentile males did shameful things contortion: lying with the same secs is sinful Bible: male-bedders won't inherit God's kingdom contortion: homoxesuals won't inherit God's kingdom Bible: for this reason a man marries a woman contortion: forget the reason, a man must only ever marry a woman or else it's a mortal sin Bible: God destroyed those towns because of their callous arrogance contortion: God destroyed those towns because they were all gay Bible: "love your neighbour" satisfies all God's commands contortion: "love your neighbour and no gay secs" satisfies all God's commands

[@canyonwlkr]

Perhaps you might apply the great amount of love and respect you have towards time invested in learning about the topic. I assure you, I am not a scriptural contortionist. Start here and go to part 2 as well. kzbin.info/www/bejne/g3Pakp2Zq7-np9k

[@milliesaysokboomer]

Anti lgbtq theology is so wrong, patriarchal and misogynistic . Only hateful and uneducated people will see sense in it

[@DavidKnowles]

​@@milliesaysokboomer Disagreeing with someone does not automatically mean you hate someone. Do you disagree with me? Do you hate me because I have a different opinion to you? If you hate me, are you if any different to those you accuse? If You love me then surely you can see that I can love you too but still disagree wholeheartedly with your contention and your theology. Using hyperbolic language by labeling those you disagree with as 'uneducated' haters only exacerbate greater derision. You commit the very sin you accuse the other off. Take care.

[@milliesaysokboomer]

@@DavidKnowles I don’t hate people i disagree with, but u have to admit that anti lgbtq theology has done a lot of harm. I truly believe it is not sinful, I have asked and prayed for wisdom and discernment many times .

[@kimsteinke713]

Good for you I'm 63 got married tried being a heterosexual You can't be if you're gay you must accept yourself and love yourself and understand what Rowan empire did and wrote and why the Catholic Church represent so much for 2,000 years Go get books Don't try to reject yourself. It leads to harm It leads to dysfunction It causes mental illness at the end of the road and lives that has been messed up from marriage to everybody So just tell the truth be who you are and know that Jesus has got you. No God would create you this way and demand you become straight that sounds like the devil to me. But understand these are the prophets of our kin folks of old they weren't God they're doing their best on a journey amen You don't have to lose your faith but you do have to grow up and read history and understanding the culture of the context what's really going on. We're all praying for each other We're all brothers and sisters in Christ all over the world Amen. 🙏🏳️‍🌈😇

[@robertnovoa341]

But didn't Christ Jesus say in Mark chapter 10 verses 6 through 9 "But from the beginning of the Creation God made them male and female. For this cause will a man leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife and they both will be one flesh: so then they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together let no Man put asunder." 📖 So regardless of the context it still says From the beginning of the creation God made them male and female... What therefore God has joined together let not Man separate. And didn't Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit write_ "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the Kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed you were sanctified you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 1st Corinthians 6:9 through 11. Note it says "and this is what some of you were were" it does not say "'and such are still some of you'" it says and such "were" some of you which means we are no longer to practice these things_ thievery, adultery, greediness, drunkenness, reviling, homosexuality etc.. and what about Romans chapter 1 which condemns the lifestyle of homosexuality it explicitly explains there that these people were doing wrong "women with women men with men doing that which was not fit to do"? which is also written under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. Let's not forget God is the Holy Spirit, Jesus is God _God is Jesus, One God, three persons in One God. ❤️

[@MusicalRaichu]

You're missing the point. Paul says male-bedders NOT homoxesuals in 1 Cor 6. That mistranslation entered the Bible by accident and was corrected thanks to Rev David. Unfortunately other Bible versions developed in the intervening years did not see the correction and perpetuated the mistake that persists to the present day. Romans 1 (a) biased translations makes it seem like a homosecsual lifestyle but that's anachronistic (b) it says women were doing something you wouldn't expect them to do, NOT women lying with women (c) it says "men did shameful things with men", NOT "men doing things with men is sinful". Read it properly, and consult the original Greek, not biased translations! Jesus said that men and women get married and that should be treated as permanent. He does NOT say a man must only marry a women or else it's a mortal sin. Go back to the full story in Genesis 2 and work through it. Precisely the same reasoning applies seamlessly to same-secs couples with no contradiction to the text.

[@joyfuljaneen1872]

@@MusicalRaichu doesn’t shameful mean worthy of shame or disgrace so in essence is falling from grace which would be sin🤔

[@MusicalRaichu]

@@joyfuljaneen1872 fyi shame is loss of honour in society whether because of deliberately hurting someone (actual sin) or for example because of an honest mistake. in Rom 1, Paul refers to their behaviour as unclean, dishonourable and unseemly, but he does not go so far as calling it sin. be careful of modern English biased translations - refer to the original Greek. but my main point is that even if it was sin, saying that certain people (roman idolatrous males) did something wrong doesn't make ALL same-secs acts inherently wrong. you cannot deduce that from the few statements in Rom 1 (or anywhere in the Bible). to emphasize this point, consider the example of a boy raised in a Christian home accepting the faith, upon reaching adolescence finding himself attracted to guys instead of girls. suppose he enters a mutually respectful, caring, faithful relationship with a guy. compare him with rom 1 (based on the Greek text): - worshipped idols? no - set aside the use of a female? no, no interest in girls to set aside - burned with appetite? always self-controlled and respectful - did unseemly things? behaved decently in public and faithful to his partner - filled with all kinds of evil? no - approved of wrongdoing? no see? not a single word fits. clearly Paul is writing about a completely different phenomenon. here is a close analysis of the text by a bible college teacher kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5y4qqegd72Li8k

[@joyfuljaneen1872]

@@MusicalRaichu why would one want to continue to engage in behavior that Paul under the Holy Spirit is calling unseemly, unclean and dishonorable? Wouldn’t one want to allow Holy Spirit to deliver them or correct these unclean dishonorable behaviors?

[@MusicalRaichu]

@@joyfuljaneen1872 didn't you watch the video i linked to? I'm happy to discuss this but we both need mutual respect and an open mind. since we don't know specifically what Paul was referring to in Rom 1.27, we don't know specifically what he saw wrong with it. the few words in the text don't give a reason. the idea that "males in males" was wrong specifically because it was two people of the same secs is a modern idea with no scriptural basis, an idea that has caused so much harm that i would advise you stay clear away from something so ungodly and unbiblical. in answer to your question, Roman culture with its idolatry, patriarchy and radically different practices no longer exists. we don't pray to idols before engaging in indecent revelry, we don't have straight guys poking it up other guys to prove their manhood, we don't let men use boys to prevent them from dishonouring adults. still, you have a point. any degrading or indecent behaviour - these days more common for men towards women than towards men - is unacceptable and i agree we should ask for deliverance.

[@maegardnermills4292]

A man shall not lay down with a man. Same sex should not. You didn't talk on those scriptures. Deceitfulness and boastfulness is the sum of your ministry, wouldn't you agree?

[@canyonwlkr]

NO, I do not agree.

[@calmwithchrist]

Blasphemous video

[@canyonwlkr]

Thank you for your input. I am quite calm with and for Christ.

[@calmwithchrist]

@@canyonwlkr . hey Kathy I truely say this out of love you're sending many people astray with a false gospel getting their hopes up making them believe the way they live their lives is supported by God I pray you and your people stop with the false teaching actually tell people the truth sex is for marriage between one man and one woman that is God's design let them encounter the real Jesus of the Bible I pray that all you are convicted and repent of your lies as Christians we can be loving still tell people the truth we are all sinners but it is the truth that cleanse us and sets us free from bondage we cannot live by our desires or by what we want We are to sacrifice ourselves to God and live the way he wants us to Amen

[@williamortiz2016]

I kind of thinking the same it sounds like justifying his agenda to continue in sin of same sex because of what he read in 1CORINTHIANS 6:9 nor abusers of themselves with mankind but he skipped verse (11) And such were some of you: but ye are washed, he continues in that activity with same sex here Paul was talking about none believers here but ounce we move on to believe in Jesus that attitude has to change.. this video is blasphemous

[@MusicalRaichu]

@@williamortiz2016 the fact that he wrote "such were some of you" categorically excludes homoxesual people from scope. people do not have any say over which gender they have the capacity to love.

[@MusicalRaichu]

@@calmwithchrist if God's design was for one man and one woman, then I guess Abraham, Jacob, David and Solomon will not inherit the kingdom of God. FYI one man and one woman was a pagan practice that was imposed on Christianity after Greeks and Romans became a majority in the church.

[@adamwalker2377]

3:00 and that doesn't strike you as stupidly woke?

[@alme_vq]

don't believe lies; first of all read the bible, educate yourselves but with the word of God, the true one; listen to the God of the bible, please trust and obey only the true God; do not try to mold God to his preferences, because you are creating a false god; God is clear in his word, and I don't hate people, I love them, that's why I want them to find out the truth, read the scriptures; do not be carried away by your wishes; seek the will of God; I love you, and I don't want you to go to hell for believing the words of foolish and wicked men; repent as much as you can, seek God and his will, Jesus can cleanse his sins, and cleanse them from all filth and evil, believe in his name and make him Lord of his lives; repent while you find time; remember that Jesus said that you had to die to yourself, take up your cross and follow Jesus; It is going to be difficult but remember that Jesus gave everything, even his own life out of love for us, there is no greater love than that of God; Please read the Bible, listen to God, believe him, and obey and repent.

[@jenisebrooks4308]

I think thats the point of this...folks have beenreading the bible and prior to translation the word was not mentioned and same sex act had more to do with perversion not what folks consider homosexuality today!

[@mikefamm5712]

Can you truly not see that understanding God and his word is the exact reason these people gathered? The exact reason they are doing this work? They are in pursuit of what you are as well. They have come to very different conclusions about this topic but all that means is that you disagree. You keep writing “listen to God, trust God” but you haven’t included anything you believe God has said about this. Why do you presume to know the full truth?

[@maegardnermills4292]

🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏

[@KingMswatiIII]

Read Leviticus, read Romans.

[@JoeySehn]

Read the RSV

[@KingMswatiIII]

@@JoeySehn I don't have the RSV.

[@MusicalRaichu]

The reason they're generally focused on 1 cor 6.9 was because it was the mistranslation there that in the first place led the protestant church to come to believe that homosecsuality is a sin. (although this seems to have changed after the disaster it caused. it's same-secs acts that are more commonly believed to be a sin now.) this error then led translators to misconstrue lev and rom as well. for example, i grew up reading the good news bible and it says in lev "no man is to have secsual relations with another man". can you believe that? how on earth could someone leave out half the verse and completely change the meaning!? oh i know, it's because they were led to believe that homosecsuality is a sin. i wonder how that happened? oh yes, 1 cor 6.9. and the niv which i later started reading says for rom "men ... were inflamed with lust for one another", which is not entirely wrong, but slanted to sound like it's about homosecsuality which is not what the original text suggests. why did they make it sound that way? because the mistranslation of 1 cor 6.9 led them to believe it was a sin. rom 1 doesn't even call it a sin, yet they had to make it sound like it did to fit in with their beliefs. so they changed "desires" to "sinful desires", "uncleanness" to "secsual impurity" and "appetite" to "lust". do you see what i mean as to why 1 cor 6.9 is the culprit?

[@KingMswatiIII]

@@MusicalRaichu If it was mistranslated, can you find any proof of Christians supporting same sex relationships before 1946 (when the supposed "mistranslation" happened)?

[@MusicalRaichu]

@@KingMswatiIII no they definitely did not and that's where people get mixed up about it. christians have had different views over time. chrysostom 4th cent states reasons relevant to graecoroman culture which are no longer believed, e.g. women now have the same social status as men, so a man taking a woman's role is no longer an issue for our society. after that, and for most of its history, the church believed that non-reproductive acts were inherently wrong. as the catholic church still holds, two men in bed is wrong for the same reason that contrasepshon is wrong. most protestants no longer believe that non-reproductive acts are inherently wrong. that conclusion came from human philosophy, not the bible. the belief that protestants developed late last century seems to be a new phenomenon, that same-secs attraction was a sinful desire that one had to repent from. its development coincides with the mistranslation, which makes sense since if you read homasaxuals won't inherit the kingdom of God in your bible, what would you come to think? now that we know that it's impossible to "repent" from same-secs attraction - in fact attempting to has devastated and even lost lives, with may i add nary an official apology from the church - most protestants surreptitiously changed their beliefs to say it's same-secs acts and relationships that are wrong, not the attraction.

[@dr.jonpatrickanderson]

Much of this message is nonsense. Anybody who knows linguistics is aware that translating from one language to another is very difficult especially when there are many words in some languages which cannot be translated to some other languages because some of those words do not exist in the languages in which translations are being attempted. In English, there is the Oxford English Dictionary which is in Encyclopedia form which covers all of the known words of the English language, the history of words including words no longer used in the English language, the original meaning of words and if the meaning of those words have changed and so forth. If fact, the King James English Bible was translated three times before the 1611 authorized version was released to correct the translation errors in the other versions of the King James Bible. That being said, in the original languages of the Bible (Hebrew, Greek, and some Aramaic) there were no errors in the original text, and the dialect of the original Greek language used in the original text of the Bible is no longer in use. Homosexuality has existed in biblical history all the way back to the Old Testament so much so that it was called Sodomy and the twin cities in the Old Testament were destroyed. If God does not change and is constant in his thought process, we would have to throw out ALL of the scriptures of the Bible, and God would be the biggest liar that ever existed, and we would not be able to trust anything that He says if homosexuality is right. All due respect to the homosexual/transgender community (this does not mean that I agree with the homosexual/transgender community, and I don't agree with them), but the Bible (which I believe in whole) clearly states that homosexuality is the most gross and abominable sin and God hates it. Furthermore, God says that anyone who practices this sin and does not repent shall be damned (not saved).

[@stephanieocamb4012]

I believe that's what they are trying to say; WE (as humans) got it wrong, not God. Even our understanding of ancient Greek and Hebrew was wrong. This led to the Bible being weaponized against many marginalized communities. Check out 'Walking the Bridgeless Canyon' as well.

[@MusicalRaichu]

then explain 1 why people who are gay still experience living faith in Christ and use their gifts in serving God 2 how two people not doing anything to hurt anyone are doing something unloving (see rom 13.9) 3 why attempts to get people to "repent" from being gay have been a disastrous failure 4 why the church is split 50-50 on this issue 5 why no reference to those cities in the bible says anything about homosaxualty being the reason 6 why every english translation of 1 cor 6.9 translates malebedders in inconsistent ways targetting completely different people 7 how the bible can call soemthing a sin when there was no such concept until recent times 8 why protestant belief on the issue has been so unstable and has had to keep changing?

[@31onthego]

Your nonsense

[@aryb4801]

With all due respect, just admit you are stubborn in this belief. The Bible ISN’T clear its the “most gross & abominable sin”. There a whopping 6 verses people point to talking about it, and all of the “clarity” they supposedly have can be easily debunked. If it was so clear on this topic, we wouldn’t be having this discussion to begin with. You know what the Bible IS clear on though? Keeping the sabbath. How many of us keep the sabbath? God is a great & merciful God. He created us with incredible diversity and intellect. We are able to question, and wrestle with the grey areas!! And it seems like the church is totally fine with that wrestling in every other topic, like birth control & infant baptisms, but won’t welcome the same questioning with LGBTQ+ issues 🤨 Something to think about.

[@mikefamm5712]

How do you suppose an entire city of men were homosexuals? Because in the story of Sodom, ALL the men came to Lot’s door. They were all gay? How did the city get there? Are you absolutely sure that YOU understand what homosexuality is? And can you discern that from same-sex sexual activities? Men can choose to rape other men, they can also choose to have consensual sexual relationships for a myriad of reasons. That’s not homosexuality.