An Old "RUTH" Theory (Spoilers)

[@Siofangel]

Ruth doctor doesn't remember being the thirteenth? Didn't River say rule one... The Doctor lies.

[@dreamingfur2318]

Okay thank you

[@isame0085]

Still she seemed really shocked

[@garyzimmerman62]

Thing is, she would be lying to the REAL Doctor, who would know the truth.... I'm guessing a regenerated Valeyard, but who knows.... Who knows!! Lol

[@chickenphat730]

Not to her self lol

[@davidabulafia7145]

@@tyddlup Ruth cannot be the 14th doctor because she is a classic tardis unless the 14th doctor go for chic vintage tardis.

[@patroclusilliad233]

So basically your theory is that the Timelords literally retconned everything and this new retcon Doctor is actually the pre-retcon Doctor, and our Doctor from before this retcon is actually the result of the retcon? Got it.

[@patroclusilliad233]

@Old Matey Bazza Yup, in all its glorious convolution.

[@Deception975]

Well, it is canon that they took advantage of being able to control time. Hell, they are the reason humans, and numerous other races, look like Time Lords.

[@theldrakis]

you lost me somewhere in the time stream. lol

[@Deception975]

@Rising Horizon Gaming "Nothing is impossible, only improbable." - The Doctor. Even classic Who retconned some things.

[@jkoeberlein1]

OMG that made my head hurt, but I like it.

[@JontyLevine]

"What about an alternate history?" That sounds like a parallel universe with extra steps.

[@supercloudreed]

I think he is forgetting that when the time war ended with the doctor we know of. all of the time lords and doctors was lock behind a time loop lock. the way that work is. No time lord other then the doctor can move around in time and space, and see any other time lords anymore. In witch we do not see Doctor 1 - 8 or the hidden war doctor at the time. it was not till we watch "The Day of the Doctor" is when we find out that the time loop lock was undone. but a side thing about the lock now gone, most of the old Doctors have fade away so that is no way now we can not fully see any of the old Doctors. Plus the 10th Doctor is the 10th/11th Doctors if any one remember that he use up one of his "say life's" to keep his form in "Journey's End". So there the Doctor number of forms have grow by one but still not reform. But i think he did say at some point before getting the new rounds of life's. H say that he us up all of his life's.

[@lulujuice1]

i mean if you want to get technical a universe does not entail us as we are now but a bit to the left but rather something similar to our universe but maybe with some unimaginable beings rather than humans.

[@khaosbydesignuk946]

I'm not a huge fan of the "hidden regeneration" thing, I wasn't a fan of it for the War Doctor either and would have preferred the 8th come back for the Time War.

[@ItsButterBean1020]

Or even just say War was an older 8Th Doctor

[@khaosbydesignuk946]

@@ItsButterBean1020 Yeah it would of added a tragic element to him. 8 was always presented as the wide eyed romantic, breaking him down until he becomes the guy who'd burn two whole species would add so many layers to him.

[@makrostheblack4791]

I agree. I felt it was extremely unfair to deny the audience one of the Doctors regenerations. But I felt they actually handled that with a lot of respect and actually did do a lot of set up that tied in with actual established canon, instead of trying to set up a sledge hammer of NEW canon just to support the new change.

[@drewspring2085]

War doctor wasn't hidden. The doctor simple chose to forget that life.

[@adisassy4579]

Agreed. I would rather have had 8 or 9 push the button. No one else.

[@yeet-qi7ys]

Well youre pretty damn close so far. Not an alternative timeline but more of a hidden past. Well done mate I’m impressed

[@matthewadamlock]

Think the line she said was "smart enough not to need one" when talking about the sonic screwdriver, doesn't necessarily mean that she doesn't recognise it

[@jagothegamer5750]

I thought the same thing.

[@Spacefrisian]

I thought she didnt reckognise the shape to be that of a sonic screwdriver. It does have a different shape as a regular screw driver after all.

[@philippebernard4577]

It's clear that she knows that JW is lost without hers, that's why !

[@Spacefrisian]

@@philippebernard4577 Well JW has been waving that thing around for every situation, and it even works on wood now.....

[@stalwart263]

True. 5th doctor didn’t use one either. They are massively overused on New Who. I can only remember a couple of uses in the whole of old who.

[@detectivesquirrel2621]

Potential theory: When the the Time Lords gifted Mat Smith's Doctor a new set of Regenerations they could have created an alternative Doctor, one that they could control. As the Ruth Doctor when we meet her is hiding on Earth and that she seems to have been 'working' for the Time Lords but this has failed as she has got away from the Time Lords and hiding from them on Earth.

[@jimmyryan5880]

I like the idea that there was a cost for the extra regenerations

[@dumbbo1]

Ian Samuels This could also explain why the second Doctor travelled around on “off the books” missions at some point, which he described as “the price of my freedom”, if I remember correctly. Time is sort of like Silly Putty: it’s flexible, elastic, bouncy, and can lift up backwards copies of that comic strip we call Reality.

[@xspydazx]

YES the doctor is the only timelord with extra lives and his opposite the master ... who always finds lives out of nowhere.....

[@detectivesquirrel2621]

@@xspydazx Well not always out of no where. The Master was given a new set of regenerations for the Time War but just ran away to the end of the universe

[@xspydazx]

@@detectivesquirrel2621 I have just watched the one about the master and was quite in awe of some of the bits i dont know about the master; I like the mordern masters myself, this doctor not so much but trying to be open about the new doctor it seems as tho i did not like peter davidsons doctor but actually after a while he changed abit and became good.. as suggested "the doctor may only be a woman for a single generation" it would still be good if there was other women doctors

[@charliecheeseman6548]

I dislike the idea of the Ruth doctor coming before hartnell, even as an alternate erased timeline if I my being honest. Somehow it feels wrong and disrespectful to take the mantle of the first ever doctor from hartnell

[@Pfhorrest]

I think the best resolution would be if in the "original" timeline (that we've never seen), Hartnell was still the First Doctor, and at least the first episode of the show still happened as we saw it to result in the Police Box TARDIS, but somewhere further down the line things went differently. A part of me suspects that the point of divergence might be "War Games", the first canon appearance of the Time Lords, where the Doctor gets back in touch with them after having been on the run from them, and is forced to regenerate into the Third Doctor. Maybe in the "original" timeline he didn't, and instead went on to regenerate into other forms entirely.

[@lapelcelery42]

It feels pretty disrespectful for a writer to say "I get to rewrite the entire history of the show" anyway. It's lazy and presumptuous to change key features of the show and character's history to show off an idea you had as the newcomer. To some extent that estimation depends on the payoff of the changes, which remains to be seen (though literally nothing Chibnall has ever written for the show encourages me). But I had exactly the same problem with the retconning of the War Doctor into the canon (particularly when Paul McGann was begging to be used in the 50th). If you can't write well enough to express a good idea (assuming it even turns out to be good) within established continuity, you have no business doing it by changing everyone else's work on a whim. It reminds me of Harry Shearer's quote on the Armin Tamzarian episode of the Simpsons: "That's so wrong. You're taking something that an audience has built eight years or nine years of investment in and just tossed it in the trash can for no good reason, for a story we've done before with other characters. It's so arbitrary and gratuitous, and it's disrespectful to the audience."

[@nashabasaleem6907]

I don’t understand the view that the Ruth Doctor being prior to Hartnell is disrespectful. To be honest Bill Hartnell was pushed out of the role, there was probably some ageism from the BBC. The whole concept of regeneration came from their desire to have a younger man play the role, they talked about the possibility of a woman back then too. I think Bill would have liked to have done the role longer. I wonder if he viewed his erasure as disrespectful to him. He isn’t around now and I love the Ruth Doctor but the first Doctor we met and fell in love with was Hartnell, he will always be the first.

[@riffgrindergeneral]

@@nashabasaleem6907 He had arteriosclerosis. He wasn't so much pushed aside as he was asked to step down for health reasons.

[@alancoker1459]

As i watched that episode i never got any suggestion that she might be before hartnell. I got the impression she might be River Song regenerated

[@jtfbreedlove]

Okay possibility, "O" isn't Missy's regeneration or one of the many we have no idea about, but one from "Ruth"'s history.

[@xspydazx]

exactly why change into a woman only to become a man again? the missy character was one of the best masters yet... only the original master was comparable!

[@HedeccaTamer]

@@xspydazx That's not how regeneration works

[@xspydazx]

100% shaggy the way regeneration is working now is not the way it was really even the tardis. Seem to be regenerating together as well as sometimes independently ... the whole process seems to be continually changing ... (regenerating lol)

[@cisalzlman]

You mean "O"kay I'll show my self out

[@bellablue8646]

EXCEPT "Oh" said he knew the doctor from when she was a man in spyfall so this theory is ruled out

[@gotellbossc4t-vb9hz]

Rick has put more thought and effort into this than Chibnall has.

[@willhiggins9563]

gotellbossc4t How do you know how much though Chibnall put into this? The idea hasn’t even been fully explored in the show yet.

[@odinoldman1324]

@@willhiggins9563 because he stole the idea from a book.

[@willhiggins9563]

odin oldman What book?

[@gotellbossc4t-vb9hz]

@@willhiggins9563 he is the showrunner like Moffat was before him. The showrunner has a plan or story arc and the hired writers include references to the arc or write a separate stand alone story. Chibnall is in charge.

[@willhiggins9563]

gotellbossc4t Fine, but do you think he has it thought through?

[@pouncerlion4022]

My theory still goes back to Jack. His tale of how the Cyberman Empire was destroyed, a "beast" sent "back through time." Since the history of the Cybermen is so entangled with the Doctor's how could there not be a paradox involved? Perhaps, somewhere along the lines, the intervention of this "beast" has created a different history of the Doctor, another version of the prime timeline battling for dominance perhaps. Based on the Cybermen being involved in the First's regeneration, Dr. Ruth's lack of knowledge of the sonic screwdriver and the appearance of her console room I would suspect she's an alternate version of the second Doctor, something having happened that derailed that first regeneration and caused it to take a different path, a paradox that now threatens the primary timeline. This would also solve the issue with "adding another plot line" with Jack. It's more of a clue to the primary plot line, not a divergence from it.

[@fear_cheetah2079]

Even if this isn’t the case I really like this theory

[@josefgreen9306]

Best theory out there

[@DonHbankz]

Nah

[@MxMe-su1ch]

I think this "beast" is the cause of the temporal funkiness currently surrounding The Doctor.

[@lisah6928]

I really like this theory and it makes a lot of sense. It allows for a divergence from what we know of the Doctor(s) and allows for it to be cleaned up by the 13th Doctor. After last night's episode it shows that there was some major event that included the Cybermen along with time travel and we know that the final 2 episodes will be based around them and the Doctor. However...I am still wondering who Gat was, who she and the Ruth Doctor were "working" for, and why the Ruth Doctor chose to hide herself with another Timelord companion (Lee). Is it possible she and Lee were hiding from the "lone cyberman"??? Maybe the Doctor tricked the cybermen to think she would help them hence "sort of " working for them. Somehow the Timelords are involved in all of this as well and perhaps were somehow ACTUALLY helping the cybermen. Could they have been altering time thereby changing everyone's timeline hence the Master saying "Everything you think you know is a lie." So. Many. QUESTIONS!! LOL!

[@edwardcorby462]

The Doctors daughter was actually a clone of the Doctor . So scans of the clone will represent as the Doctor. She could have stolen her own Tardis and had the cloaking device reflect the Police box as an homage to her progenitor.

[@tarnyowl6068]

She died tho, post the episode in side story.

[@edwardcorby462]

@@tarnyowl6068 no watch again she got up and flew off after the doctor left

[@tarnyowl6068]

Not talking about the episode there is a comic series where she hunts the doctor and a audio series at the end of which she dies for good

[@edwardcorby462]

@@tarnyowl6068 they've ignored other source material from cannon before.

[@PixlPlex]

Shakespeare died as well, but The Doctor met him. Time travel is a great help.

[@redcurrantart]

I felt she mocked the sonic... I didn’t get that she wasn’t recognizing it.

[@celinathommesen-kahler2142]

That's right. She doesn't recognize it _exactly_ ..but when the 13th Doctor says that it's a "sonic" she says she doesn't need one. So she was probably just unfamiliar with the look of 13's sonic, but familiar enough with sonic *technology* in general.

[@SorchaSublime]

She didnt "Not recognise" the sonic she was being condescending to 13 for "needing" it

[@vasp99]

@@SorchaSublime Colin Baker never used it. He used a sonic probe whatever that may have been.

[@SorchaSublime]

@@vasp99 yeah, the sonic isnt a universal trait among doctors. To quote 10 talking to 5, "oh yes you mostly went hands free didnt you"

[@fear_cheetah2079]

@vasp99 her outfit looks sixth doctor-y as well with the colours. She also has a similar sinister trickery that reminded me of the seventh doctor when she tricks that other woman into shooting herself which is similar to how the seventh tricked his opponents into killing themselves on several occasions (most notably in remembrance of the Daleks when he tricked Davies into blowing up skaro and himself)

[@wes528]

I'd love for Ruth to be the Valeyard and she's working with the Master. Such an awesome double-villain team for the Doctor to overcome

[@VoodooGremlin]

I had an idea that this was all a double bluff. Ruth was in fact the Rani. The Rani used the chameleon arch to re-write herself as a human but also created a Doctor version of Time Lord essence and put it in the lighthouse. That essence is based on what she could observe of the Doctor at present and at a distance and her past experiences. Her actual essence is somewhere else at the moment and would come up at another time. The sonic is the key to this theory. There are two periods when the Doctor didn't have a sonic. Hartnel & Troughton , but also Davidson, Colin Baker and McCoy didn't use one. (Okay Davidson had it for a couple stories to start and McCoy had one in the movie). The only time the Rani appeared in the series was in this second period when the Doctor didn't use a sonic and she wouldn't have been able to work it into "her" Doctor. That being said if Chibnil has said that Ruth is the Doctor and this is not a fake out this is all moot. I just wanted to share.

[@firmanchristiansianturi4794]

Guess what, he said it www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/jo-martin-first-black-doctor-21373790

[@puretoast5625]

“The T-Ruth is out there” Me trying to prove that Ruth is the Valeyard

[@Samdemaeyer]

I think she is

[@ReversedPolarity]

I think she could be, lots of things certainly point to it imo. The problem now is getting there. If done right, this could explain not only the Valeyard but many other huge questions we had in both classic and modern Who. It's one of the Holy Grails of Doctor Who.

[@seanburns4168]

I think Ruth is the Valeyard or a later regeneration of the Valyard

[@seanburns4168]

@Ututwhynot she had to come from somewhere; remember the Sixth Doctor did not know that the Valeyard was a future Doctor till the Master told him. In the words of the Master, " The Valyard is an amagamation of the darker side of your nature; between your 12th and 13th incarnations; and you don't improve with age. " So I believe that this is to whom Ruth is? She is a future regeneration of the Valeyard. Who was indeed as much The Doctor as The War Doctor, or the Curator.

[@seanburns4168]

Chris Chibnall turned the Doctor into a woman, the Master was a black man; so why not a black woman as the Valyard?

[@jamiee7367]

I really hope this theory ends up being right, not just because it explains the mysteries in the current series well, but feels like it would be very satisfying to watch. Edit: After watching _The Timeless Children,_ I’m quite happy that this theory can still work.

[@TheSnkdthmnky]

There is precedent for out of place Doctors: the Valeyard (one that will not de), the Watcher (protoform of the fifth), and the Dream Lord (umm weird). The Doctor having memory alteration/eraser (third doctor) and cloned-ish (The Doctor’s Daughter). On an aside always wanted the tie in of Jenny and Susan. I do like the idea that the Time Lords are doing shenanigans to the Doctor for nefarious reasons.

[@natsnd]

Remember Missy's line from Magicians Apprentice "since he was a little girl"

[@DanBen07]

Oh yeah.

[@jevonator_9479]

james johnston And 12 told Bill that he thought he was a boy at the Academy but wasn’t sure as it was too long ago

[@DanBen07]

@@jevonator_9479 yes I was just looking somethink up from the five doctors. First doctor didn't remember who the master was. "MASTER: Our ancestors had such a wonderful sense of humour. DOCTOR 1: Do I know you, young man? MASTER: Believe it or not, we were at the Academy together."

[@jevonator_9479]

Dan 23 I forgot about that! I always worked around it with the Master being in a stolen, non Time Lord body

[@ifandafydd7432]

"One of those was a lie"

[@TechBearSeattle]

My theory: the lie of the Timelords is based in the quantum event theory: everything that can happen does happen, spawning off new versions of the universe. We saw this when Donna was persuaded to turn one way rather than another. Perhaps the fixed points in time serve as the struts that keep the majorly different universes separate. And how many of those has she altered recently? Something -- maybe the Timeless Child -- is trying to reconcile these different universes. O comes from a universe where Gallifrey fell in the Time War, perhaps he sided with the Daleks and then betrayed them, destroying both Dalek and Timelords. Ruth comes from a universe where Gallifrey won the Time War, and she is now being hunted Ruth-lessly (sorry) for having deserted.

[@gilly9666]

Its bad writing if you have to fill in the blanks for the actual writers of the show

[@gilly9666]

@Rising Horizon Gaming call it what you like i stand by my comment, its shit writing if you have to fill in the blanks you're self

[@donmountford797]

@@gilly9666 it would be bad writing if we know the answers before the Arc has concluded. The mysteries and the the theories are a fun part of the WHO!

[@JTScottOfficial]

@@donmountford797 However his theory is flawed, Chibnall has stated she's not a Parallel, as another universe theory would create. I like to think she's Jenny. Because, yeah.

[@donmountford797]

@@JTScottOfficial I honestly have no idea where they are going. But hope I enjoy the ride. Perhaps it's the Valeyard. Maybe someone who was wiped from memory/existence by the time lords, and of course as the doctor has told companions in the past, "the doctor lies". So we can't simply believe something is or isn't because the doctor has said it. Endless possibilities, which is a first in a long time for this series.

[@LinkTheFusky]

My theory is that the doctor split the time line into three when he met himself as the war doctor and that the three timelines had different regenerations and the war doctor regenerated into a few different doctors before ruth and the 10th doctor also regenerated into different doctors and the main timeline were seeing is the 11th doctors time line

[@IuriMrs]

You're both wrong. Ruth Doctor is pre-Time War

[@Squicx]

I would do anything to have The timeless child retconned as an alternate reality breaching The doctors reality. And since the matrix is a computer, it mistook our Doctor as Ruth's giving the Doctor Ruth's backstory. Gallifrey, master, cyberman and ruth doctor All come from this reality since The master is dead and the doctor saved gallifrey and cannot remember Ruth's Doctor. And I hope Ruth is an alternate doctor since it's disrespectful to William Hartnell's legacy.

[@videovoidtv]

Honestly if they put this much thought into what they’ve written... it wouldn’t be as solid. Well done sir. It’s convoluted but what you’ve come up with is clever and logical. Chefs kiss!

[@kruleworld]

"is clever and logical" Which is both why it won't be adopted and why the current writers are so bad.

[@videovoidtv]

Evil Ash Oh 💯! This is gonna be a cluster tuck that’ll make me start giving up on Who. Start! They have another 2 seasons of shit before I let go. Tennant was THAT good.

[@AbsoluteAbsurd]

Well Chibnall used to be a really big DW fanatic

[@kengelsthorpe8603]

I remember as a kid watching the original series when the doctor was being examined by some alien and it showed the then doctors previous forms and showed three or four images supposedly before hartnell but this episode always seems to be forgot

[@punctuatedparliament5831]

Okay, I have a similar theory but a little more simple i feel: Instead of being an alternate doctor, the first doctor, aka Hartnell regenerates into her making her the second doctor. A huge scandal takes place involving the doctor, the timelords, and the timeless child. It ends in some way or another but the timelords cant let word get out about what happened. The timelords force ruth to regenerate back into hartnell, giving back a regenerations worth of regeneration energy and wiping the doctor memory of the entire ruth regeneration and all that happened during it, making the whole situation a huge cover up by the timelords which is what the timeless child is supposedly anyway. worth of regeneration energy and wipe the doctor memory of the entire ruth regeneration

[@seangleeson8073]

While I really like your proposed solution, I would say there are some things you haven't considered/have wrong in regards to a Season 6B scenario: 1) I'm not sure that Ruth didn't recognize the Sonic so much as didn't for it. Plus, and I can't stress this enough, the 2nd Doctors Sonic Screwdriver was Just A Screwdriver That Worked Sonically. A Doctor between 2 and 3 wouldn't recognize the Magic Wand Sonic. 2) Time Lords can give extra regenerations AND Time Lords love covering things up. The Season 6B theory has the Doctor being forced into working on secret missions for the Time Lords. What's the best way to keep these secret? Wipe the Doctor's Memory, throw back in any used ip regenerations, dump the Doctor on a backwater world with no way of getting off it, and pretend none of the other stuff ever happened. So the Regen thing is not only not a problem, but logically consistent with the theory.

[@avengingangel]

If the Master didn't destroy Gallifrey after learning about their interference in his life, the four-beat drum, then I personally don't think anything would be enough for him to destroy it.

[@Darkwintre]

Chibdall didn't want Moffett involved in his latest screw up. For starters Moffett would have been aware of the Brains of Morbius and would have pointed that out.

[@LordGrotesk]

Exactly. To rule it, to stop it from interfering with his plans, to play with it, but not to destroy it. So what sort of revealed lie would make The Master nihilistic enough to overcome his narcissism and destroy his own people as utterly as The Doctor was said to have? :: Ponders :: Something fundamental about The Master. Something that goes beyond being retroactively turned into a madman by Rassilon or having been executed and resurrected by the Time Lords just to become a soldier in their Time War. Something that The Doctor is indirectly complicit in, hence any rehabilitation of their relationship via Missy would be undone, yet he would still feel righteous enough to tell The Doctor. :: Ponders some more :: Seems like it should be really key to Time Lord identity. A lie that Time Lords tell themselves that made The Master into a bad guy when he didn't have to be...

[@Darkwintre]

@@LordGrotesk previous book canon suggested he was sold out by a girlfriend and went rogue when he found out. Chibdall however is contriving himself into a corner he clearly has no idea about doctor who as seen by piss poor planning and no overall plan for the last season Ruth made a better doctor in one episode than Jodie probably because they sought advice for how to include Captain Jack and Ruth's reveal was mentioned and they told them to watch Tennant's version of that. I'd reveal Rassilon did that and severed the doctor from her remaining regenerations forcing Ruth her watcher to be imprisoned now freed when Jodie's doctor is dying Ruth turns up merging with her allowing Jodie to regenerate. Somehow I doubt they'll match that with Chibdall in charge but best wishes nonetheless!

[@LordGrotesk]

@@Darkwintre Yes, well.. But the less said about "book canon" the better.

[@gregpaullamb754]

the layout of the new doctors console room was a major clue!

[@IDidntSetAHandle]

Expand on this please?

[@armorer94]

It was a bone-stock type 40 console. Argues for late Hartnell to Troughton/Pertwee regeneration at the latest.

[@mikebasil4832]

That’s a pretty interesting theory. Thanks for sharing. 👍🏻

[@That80sGuy1972]

I liked what they did with The Doctor's final form when he was defending a town called Christmas. They (The Doctor's people via a dimensional crack in a wall) gave him the ability to exceed his regeneration limit. Ruth might be another one of those loose ends as you said. Ruth "Doctor" slid from an alternative timeline to our Doctor's timeline. Also, I say The Doctor might have regenerated in a place where he regenerated as two Doctors... with both of them having The Doctor as their original form but living completely different lives. With all of time and space, they could evade each other for literal eons and never cross paths.

[@stevenjoy3537]

Wouldn't have this problem had the BBC not decided upon the PC route

[@dcphoenix5100]

I just think this whole "Timeless Child" and "Forgotten Regenerations" stuff has been a big red herring the whole time. I believe that "Ruth" or what Wikipedia defines her as "Fugitive Doctor", is indeed a future Regeneration. 14th or maybe a later Doctor. Here's the reasoning, Hartnell, the 1st Doctor was the first doctor to steal a TARDIS and go run off in the universe, it'd be inconceivable to believe that an "older forgotten incarnation" did the exact same thing. "Well why does the Fugitive Doctor's TARDIS look like the classic one?" Its the damn Doctor were talking about here, maybe that Regeneration was a Regeneration that missed the classic look, and due to The Doctor's bond with the TARDIS, it "done itself up" with the classic retro look with a splash of modern flair. "Well how come she doesn't have a Sonic Screwdriver?" Perhaps, like the 5th Doctor, she had one for a while, but then instead of making a brand new one, she just decided to use her own wit and whatever else was around her to solve problems. Remember, she said "I'm smart enough not to need one." So maybe she knows what a Sonic Screwdriver is, but just didn't need one. Then again who knows? Maybe when Chibnall finally quits, the next showrunner will go in and try to fix the absolute mess Chibnall made to the series. Because if its not an alternate or parallel timeline then, we can rule out that Ruth is the Alternate 13th Doctor. Like how the Shalka Doctor is the Alternate 9th Doctor or how there's an Alternate 12th Doctor in the Four Doctors comic.

[@thunderboltkenpo]

Like Moffat, chibnal lies about stories. There probably is a parallel universe thingy

[@CliffLewis28]

PETER LEE That is my feeling too. I hope so, at least..

[@DJKin98]

No, cause Chibs already told in an enterview that he won't bring back any parallel universe on.

[@thunderboltkenpo]

@@DJKin98 he lies. That's the point.

[@DJKin98]

@@thunderboltkenpo Good point.

[@danielwilliamson6180]

It's a shame Chris Chibnall didn't resolve this in the Series 12 finale. The 13th Doctor says she doesn't remember Ruth's Doctor. If Ruth's Doctor didn't happen before William Hartnell. Could Ruth's Doctor be from a alternate dimension? or could she be a future incarnation of The Doctor?

[@quickstixproductions9880]

I would actually prefer the simplest answer, she's the 14th Doctor.

[@DanBen07]

@lunaflower The doctor has had memory problems after regenerating some times but that normally goes away and remembers normally.

[@psychegemstone]

Yes, with amnesia I think she was an amazing doctor if she’s 14 I love it

[@wakcedout]

She actually did play a doctor with presence and authority. Jodies been just...eh. given zero development and shes given as much presence as a plastic bag sadly. So yea if this new lady becomes 14, that would at least give an actor taking on the doctor persona and filling into it.

[@quickstixproductions9880]

@@wakcedout I actually quite like Jodie she functioned well as a contrast to the 12th doctor in series 11. However she was pretty light on development, I think series 12 has improved on this fairly substantially. She has been given struggles now and she has displayed a more dramatic and darker side.

[@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681]

@@DanBen07 Maybe its a side effect of adding extra regenerations/having had too many of them?

[@Starius65]

That was surprisingly accurate.

[@CineScarborough]

I love this theory so much. I think that would be so satisfying.

[@crippledchild6884]

The doctor is actually at his/her 14th regeneration

[@Houtblokje]

She didn't really say she didn't recognized the sonic, she said she was smart enough to not need one. This could indicate she came after the war doctor, as we never seem him fully regenerate.

[@nheather]

In your alternative history, why does the Ruth Doctor have a police box TARDIS? Another theory, Chibnall doesn’t know how this is going to work out, he just threw it in and is planning to look at the fan theories on social media for inspiration.

[@michael-mb5xv]

It's a regeneration of the doctor from the parell universe left with rose. Exact DNA copy but with one heart. They were wrong about him being able to regenerate.

[@sladecullen8629]

I like this theory because if you go back and look at deleted scenes from the beach where he left rose the "main doctor" gave the "alternate doctor" a chunk of TARDIS saying something along the lines of "This universe needs defending. The Doctor and Rose in the TARDIS. Like it should be.

[@sladecullen8629]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZfMqYGpqr6Fo8k

[@jeckjeck3119]

I really hope they will nail this.

[@beetleguy9446]

Honestly, I think this level of narrative complexity is outside Chibnall's capabilities. You'd make a much better writer than him.

[@thefurrybastard1964]

A chimpanzee with broken fingers could write circles around Chris Chinballs.

[@shannonlouden3428]

What do you expect? Chibnall isn't a scifi writer. He has no interest in, or love for, scifi. He is also a woke, virtue signalling average joe. As a result, that's all we'll see from DW, until he vanishes.

[@thefurrybastard1964]

@@shannonlouden3428 I tried watching that Downton Abbey thing he did, that was pretty blah if you ask me. I doubt he could write a decent shopping list.

[@thefurrybastard1964]

@HN Wow, that was a clever insult. Did your Mommy help you with it?

[@thefurrybastard1964]

@HN Now that's funny! I like that!

[@MKRex]

Jack being present, would suggest Doctor Ruth might be between Hartnell and Eccleston, the War Doctor regeneration between.

[@Timmige]

except we saw both regenerations happen, so she doesnt fit there

[@RomanHistoryFan476AD]

Changing such a fixed thing as the cycle of the Doctor's regeneration's is not something i can support really, Hartnall was the first and and we saw the other 12 after him. Ruth can not be before him. A future Doctor maybe, or alternate universe or clone yes, but not the original.

[@biglou6799]

I really like your analysis of what going on and it as good as a theory as I've heard so far...Now here's the thing about the gap between the 2nd and 3rd Doctors, when the time lord put the Doctor on trial and sentence him to exile they say your appearance changed before it will change again and he had a chose as to what he looked like...so the might have been doing something outside of normal regenerations...so they might have not forced the Doctor to use one of his own regenerations, but one as part of sentencing. Who knows(pun intended)

[@makrostheblack4791]

STOP TRYING TO COME UP WITH THEORIES TO JUSTIFY A SLEDGE HAMMER TO 57 YEARS OF THE SHOW. NO NO NO, @4:41 HARTNELL HAS TO BE THE FIRST DOCTOR.... The ENTIRE POINT of the Capaldi episode, the ENTIRE UNDERLYING THEME OF THE EPISODE WAS THE DOCTORS FEAR OF REGENERATING FOR THE FIRST TIME BEING REFLECTED IN CAPALDI'S OWN FEAR OF LETTING GO. STOP DEFENDING THIS CRAP.

[@dmwait]

Makros the Black well said !!!!

[@SorchaSublime]

oh shut the fuck up.

[@jonathandellicolli149]

@@dmwait it's not a crap. If you think you can do better, go there and write the show.

[@andor888]

@@jonathandellicolli149 He probably could. I know I could. It's just that we're not the puppets of some political movement that decided to take over the show (and in fact, the BBC), Chibnall is. Or do you think he was hired for his artistic vision? lol

[@gonefishing6508]

@@andor888 And you're not a proponent of some 'political' movement?

[@MxMe-su1ch]

We know Hartnell isn't the first Doctor, and have seen the pre-Hartnell regenerations. They're revealed in the mind bending fight with Morbius, and all male. IIRC this was in the Baker era, so we know at least then The Doctor was aware of them. So they couldn't have been wiped from memory or existence.

[@Alovon]

My idea is that the Timeless Child is the way they rewrote reality/Time/built Time-Lord Society. So what if the Ruth Doctor emerging is due to the Master trying to Undo the Timeless Child, and like the Cracks in S5, the product of the event is rippling in the Current Reality before it actually occurs?

[@sirslurmusic]

PLEASE submit an application to write for Doctor Who. This is an awesome idea that actually makes sense (in that timey-wimey DW way). It gives The Master full agency as the villain of the season while making him a little bit sympathetic but still evil and batshit crazy. It doesn't ruin established history. It allows both Ruth and Thirteen to still be The Doctor. And best of all, it could be used to make us question if what we've seen/will be shown this season is the established timeline or one created by The Master. Or both depending on the episode. Hell it could even give Orphan 55 a reason to exist and not just be remembered as a very bad episode - which would be a nearly impossible feat worthy of The Doctor!

[@Alovon]

@@sirslurmusic thank you for the suggestion (Unfortunately, I'm not British, nor have wrote a proper book/Comic.etc yet). But if I were asked to write/draft a ending for S12, and also idea for S13 is this. *Season 12* 1. The Lone Cyberman itself is a result of the Timeless Child Ripples due to the Master's interference/destruction of the Timeless Child. This will be illuded to with the Lone Cyberman's history not having any relation to the Cybus Industries or the New-Who Cybermen. 2. The Lone Cyberman wants the Doctor's TARDIS to revert reality as it's seen Doctor-Prime's reality where the Cybermen are relatively around. 3. The Lone Cyberman is just that, the last of it's kind The season will end with a cliffhanger of the Doctor looking either A. At a mirror and the audience seeing Ruth Doctor in her eye. B. Looking to the side and the camera panning to see a Reflection of a Crack in Time. This will lead into Season 13, 13's final Season. *Season 13* 1. It will start with the doctor having headaches and flashes of Ruth's Reality. 2. The 13th Doctor and her companions, by the midseason finale will become ripples with Ruth's reality becoming the prime. 3. Jack will be more common as he will be normal as, like 10 stated "You are a fact, a universal fact", so even with changes to reality like that, Jack will still be immortal, and considering how gradual the change will be, I say he will notice and be able to do stuff like the Doctor and co can 4. The final episodes will be called "At Reality's End" "Lies a Timeless Child" In this, it will show the final confrontation of 13 and her version of the Master, with Her and Ruth fading between each other, and 13 seemingly fading out for good as the stinger for the ending of the season. This will be resolved in the Xmas/New Years special where Ruth Doctor is told of all the things that Doctor-Prime did, and is resolved to save her reality,citing all their companions as reasons why, this will go back to the final battle in S13 where the Doctor instead of loosing, fades between all of their incarnations, a mix of 13's theme and "I am the Doctor", declaring no matter what timeline or reality,. They are the Doctor, and regenerates, and floods the energy into the Timeless Child free and save it/them. This leads into 13's final speech, and regeneration proper into 14

[@richardappleton2337]

I like this idea... especially because it fits in with the Dr's comment about the destroyed Earth in Orphan Planet, about how they are seeing one possible future and there are many time lines out there.

[@electricangel4488]

wait isnt it easier if she a future doctor and not telling her/him/them selfs because they dint want to mix up the timelines or she is just messsing with herself

[@kingcrimson1467]

Electric Angel Or she erased her memories of 13 because of the timeless child.

[@popburnsy3207]

Previous set of regenerations and having been mindwiped is just as simple though. And it has a basis in almost canon from McCoy's Seventh Doctor. Look up Cartmel Master plan

[@jlbwho7913]

This would also explain Missy having a different mental belief to the master (maybe directly) after her. Different versions

[@theecapitan]

I like the idea of an alternate past but didn’t the master when in the Missy regeneration form say that she “knew him when he was a little girl” or something to that effect? I’d need to check the episode but it’s a vague throwaway line I remember. Could be proof of this theory. Just thought I’d throw it out there. Might not be the first but food for thought perhaps. Thanks for the vid.

[@5mithy712]

That line means nothing considering it comes from missy (The Master).

[@ElainaLycan]

@@5mithy712 Yeah tbh Missy likes to taunt so I'm sure it was her making a joke about the Doctor

[@niteowlx5178]

Holy crap this is the best theory I've ever heard, not only does it make sense but it's also really clever

[@brianoconnell6459]

Quick trip through the Wayback Machine: What if Clara Oswald didn't stop going back through the Doctor's history when she saved , and created the split herself, resulting in the Ruth Doctor (I am not going to call her Doctor Ruth)?

[@Berkzian]

"Time" is literally circling the Doctor, we have major events happening, Gallifrey burning, Captain Jack Harkness returning, The Master returning and a possible Mystery Doctor who i dont believe is what she THINKS she is. The Doctor can see memories and also erase them and the Doctor has done this in some cases to preserve history. Could it be possible for the Doctor to implant memories? is so it could be possible Ruth had them implanted and knew where to go to unlock the regeneration energy, but that only leaves a bigger mystery, WHO stored the Doctors energy there and how did a version of the TARDIS end up buried there?

[@sarreqteryx]

My head-canon dictates that Hartnell was not the Doctors first self in the first place. I've always thought Gallifreyans became Time Lords after graduating from the Academy, regenerating into their first Time Lord body, and taking their Time Lord name. Thus Hartnell would be the 1st regeneration and Doctor, but he had a whole life before that. I don't think the Doctor had a whole cycle before Hartnell, but Doctor-Ruth could have been the real 1st regeneration; Doctor-Ruth was working for the Time Lords' version of MI6, and for the trouble she caused before she used the Chameleon arch, they wiped her mind and forced a regeneration, but the need to escape Gallifrey still niggled at the back of his head. As for the Chameleon circuit, the TARDIS may have landed in 1999 somewhere that model Police Box still existed, and then after the regeneration, could have decided the Police Box form was comfortable and decided to wear it again when landing in 1963.

[@Temptation666]

Why would they have to regenerated to graduate? That don't make one ounce of sense Neither does your pre Hartnell and Police box theory?

[@makrostheblack4791]

Then you COMPLETELY missed the point of the Capaldi to Whittaker regeneration episode.

[@sarreqteryx]

@@Temptation666 I'm not saying they are forced to waste their first regeneration upon graduation. I realize the New Adventure novels were blown out of the way for the most part when the series restarted in 2005, but from those, it's been established that normal Gallifreyans are unable to regenerate, and that's what sets the Time Lords apart from them. they still have extremely long life spans, but only the one. That, plus the Doctor and Master being granted new regeneration cycles is what brought me to the conclusion that graduates from the Academy are bestowed their ability to regenerate in the first place. once given their (1st) cycle, they can certainly live out their natural Gallifreyan life span, but aren't considered true Time Lords until their 1st regeneration. As for the TARDIS, they are living machines, with personalities, I don't see why it couldn't have decided to break it's own chameleon circuit to stay as a Police Box.

[@sarreqteryx]

whell, that was total wtf-ery. I'm completely speechless after that finale.

[@andrewbowman4611]

My own theory is she's between Troughton and Pertwee. After the events of The War Games, the Doctor's sentence is postponed, on the understanding that he works for the Time Lords. This he does, which explains his aged appearance in The Five Doctors and The Two Doctors. Some time later, the Doctor regenerates into a young girl - the Timeless Child - who grows up to be 'Ruth', a disguise she's forced to take while on the run from Gat. Events then take place as we see them. 'Ruth's' lack of recognition of the sonic is probably due to two things: firstly, 2 didn't use it that often and secondly, 13's bears no resemblance to the one he did use. Also, the martial arts displayed in Gloucester Cathedral could be where the 3rd Doctor picked it up from. Anyway, eventually this Doctor is recaptured, given a change of clothes, and then forcibly regenerated. This also explains 11 being the final incarnation, his assertion that his Tennant incarnation counted twice being mistaken. So, the Timeless Child predates Pertwee but comes after Troughton.

[@212Assain]

I honestly hadn't considered 10 regenerating twice not counting after all. Huh.

[@andrewbowman4611]

@@212Assain Although I accepted the two 10s explanation, I never particularly liked it. That, plus the lack of change-over between Troughton and Pertwee, I've always found oddly unsatisfying. If I'm right, then this could resolve both issues at the same time.

[@alancoll1987]

Good theory. I also think that the Master found out about all this old timeline being erased. Went to Galefrey and destroyed it and the time lords. In turn causes this old timeline to come back in a way. Also Ruth and the other Time Lord had no idea that Galefrey was Destroyed since in their timeline it has not been.

[@connerbrown9159]

This is the best theory I've heard so far

[@LLT8]

My dad thinks it is the Rani, forgetting her memory and is inputted the Doctor’s memory from the Cyber Capsules seen in The Next Doctor

[@kellysjourney2771]

Currently we have gotten three doctors that we never heard of, or maybe we've only had two. In the Day of the Doctor crossover we were truly introduced to the War Doctor, but during the fourth Doctor's era we were introduced to the Watcher. Many theories speculate the Watcher was the Doctor from a timeline that never came to be. If you don't see where I'm going by this, Ruth, who I like to call The Lost Doctor, is in fact The Watcher. She's an unexplained Doctor like the Watcher from unknown origin, who was also not hinted at in anyway. Just placed before us like the Watcher. The only proof I have of this their story doesn't match with the timeline we've seen of the doctor, but so was the Watcher. They both have no other place that fits in the Doctor's timeline excect one that we never had the chance to experience completely. Also, during Peter Capeldi's era as the Doctor, Missy mentions that she knew the doctor since he was a little girl and two other facts, but she said one of them was a lie. Maybe Missy was right but also wrong, she did know the doctor as a girl, and as I girl I mean Ruth. Since the Oh Master most likely is a previous reincarnation of the Master, his evil doings to our current Jodie Doctor is changing the timeline where we met the Missy or Master that gives up her evil ways. Ruth may be from the timeline that Missy was in before she got killed by her own previous incarnation. Messing with time by two variables not just by meeting each other and making history, but wiping each other from it. Missy never happened technically due to her killing herself or himself before she even existed causing a point in time changing a variable. Now we have a Master that shouldn't exist, which may lead to Ruth's existence due to her not having ties to the timeline. The new Timelord were hastily introduced to and taken away was Gat. She said two of the same Timelord being in the same place will cause consequences to time, but we've seen many times the Doctor meeting upon the Doctor, in some cases three. That portal in the Day of the Doctor special three doctors were aquanted by a mysterious unexplained rift in time. Maybe that rifts cause was Ruth and Jodie meeting years later. What I'm trying to say from their actions then caused the War Doctor and Galifray to even exist after the Time War. The Doctor encountering the Doctor so many times finally caused time to retaliate and show who's the true Lord of Time. I know I've gone all over the place with my theory and all of its speculation but I hope someone will share this to someone who can actually find evidence behind it. Also one more thing. During the Day of the Doctor after changing the timeline it clearly states that you will not remember the changes you made to it, and during all of Jodie's time as the Doctor, she hasn't once made reference to Missy. As if the encounter of changed Master never happened.

[@JoeX92]

But Jodie's Doctor do say something, when she realizes that O is The Master she knows that is impossible, because The Master should be dead... So may be not directly referring Missy, but actually doing it...

[@kellysjourney2771]

@@JoeX92 Only time will tell

[@JoeX92]

@@kellysjourney2771 yeah... also... This master could also be Ruth's Master...

[@LM1988]

My theory of Ruth is that she is, but technically is not The Doctor. Remember back to the tenants run and Catherine Tates series, and the episode that had Georgia mofatt. Genny was a genetic clone of The Doctor. What if Ruth is a regenerated version of Genny, and that when she regenerated she gained some of the Doctors memories (time lord stuff) not sure how to explain the Tardis’ though

[@fear_cheetah2079]

Jenny wouldn’t have said she was the doctor tho she would have said she was Jenny. Unless she’s trying to be like the doctor. That could be possible.

[@LM1988]

CheetaH yeah but if a complication while regenerating, she may have believed she was The Doctor

[@kingbouncer1314]

My simple theories form favourite to least favourite: 1) she's the masters daughter I would love this! 2) she is the 14th doctor 3) she's a version of Susan 4) she's a Jenny 5) she's the valeyard 6) she's a romana 99) she's a previous, hidden regeneration of the doctor.

[@j50t]

What about the first doctor"s granddaughter Susan. Maybe she had the ability to regenerate.

[@gqsmooth1969]

She probably did, but would she scan as The Doctor or someone else?

[@geminibynature8486]

Even if it was her, she would not call herself the doctor and be recognised as the doctor. Also she would accept thirteen as Doctor once she gained back her memory m

[@seanburns4168]

@@gqsmooth1969 if this is a Susan Foreman the Doctor's own granddaughter she would have recognized or had knowledge of her grandfather's 13th regeneration. For both women did not know of each other. If Ruth Gordan was Susan Foreman ? She would have known the 13th Doctor.

[@ulsteredz]

Great theory. And interestingly enough, it could equally apply to Season 6B, too - in which Ruth was the original Third Doctor, but was subsequently overwritten. The timeline could've been altered sometime shortly after The War Games

[@adamnathan6270]

Other potential theory - Jenny (The Doctor's Daughter) regenerated and using her parents name? Far fetched I know but we haven't seen Jenny since her regeneration in Season 4

[@adamnathan6270]

@Steve Crosby whole point was that she could regenerate, yes she came back to life but like Smith's regeneration she came back to life first, we saw the regeneration energy surrounding her and never saw her regenerate, but it was hinted that she could

[@ToMtRoOpEr05]

I think on the 60th anniversary (which will happen in 2023) these characters should come back: Christopher Ecolson, David Tenant but as the Doctor-Donna Hybrid because he a bit too old, The girl who plays rose as his companion, Matt Smith, Peter Capaldi, Jodie Whittataker, If Jodie does bad this season she might quit and then we will get a new doctor probably also a girl but in the anniversary she should regenerate, And then we get Ruth and learn stuff about her, And finally The Master as the main villain but when the new doctor regenerates so does the master and the doctor that comes after should have an actor twin who looks identical to him/her so the master regenerates into the same face as the dr but we don’t see this until one seasons finale where we get a reveal like from spy fall but it’s to shock the companions instead because he/she was acting as the doctor

[@lnlraven079]

This could be the 13th [true] doctor that never existed between Smith and Capaldi, remember the last incarnation which in classic would be the Valeyard that wanted to live. It could be that she existed in a moment in time between these two doctors but was erased when the regeneration set was given and we got Capaldi but for a while, we didn't get to see her because simply put she didn't exist in our history. Or she's the Other completely and took the mantle of the Doctor, seeing her clone in a sense do what she is doing now and Whittaker's doctor doesn't remember because this is the Original Other whose memory just takes the name doctor. Sees in her mind a son/daughter carrying on work that she'd be proud of, though in the current incarnation she's a little out of it.

[@williampanic8292]

No, no, no The Valeyard was not the last incarnation, he was an anthropomorphic personification of the Doctors darker nature taken from somewhere between the Doctor's twelfth and final incarnation (no mention of thirteenth on screen), and made incarnate during the Sixth Doctors lifetime. The Valeyard isn't an actual incarnation of The Doctor, he was created by the Time Lords and was acting for them in an attempted cover up, his reward for which would be the Doctors remaining regenerations, (as he didn't have any of his own, being an anthropomorphic personification and not a real Time Lord!) There is of course nothing to suggest that the Time Lords couldn't do this again, creating another "Mayfly" Doctor - but the fact that the Gallifreyan appears to be from the pre-destruction of Gallifrey would suggest something far more than that is occurring. Gallifrey has always acted as a temporal meridian for Time Lords - no matter where or when they go, they always remain relative to Gallifrey's present, so to encounter Gallifreyan's who are not is a mystery unto itself!

[@bulman07]

Consider Orphan 55, it was foreshadowing a fork in time where a past Doctor regenerated into one of our Doctors but in Ruth’s timeline regenerated into her, reflecting the possible future earth. Something to do with Gallifrey being razed has allowed the timelines to crash together.

[@Moonbeam143]

I'm not sure if I like what they doing, but I just got to wait and see.

[@ability5284]

Ye i like your idea more!! its better than a whole pre cycle

[@danielsausaman9767]

I forget to mention that it also means that The 13th Doctor is the 2nd Doctor of this current cycle of Regeneration.

[@RSDGAMESmuzzy]

I've seen it as Ruth being a doctor from another dimension and while running from the timelords, she got sucked into another universe like in Tennant's episode "age of steel". But seeing as that's not the case... Maybe something to do with the chameleon arch went wrong and the doctor completely wiped some of her memory... Idk... It's hard to think of something with so little info...

[@ThePointlessDeath]

Maybe it's The Master before Dr Yana and as The Doctor went War Doctor, The Master filled his space but didn't know who he was as wiped his mind. Sort of like when Batman and Joker switched.

[@ReversedPolarity]

Finally someone making the points that need to be accounted for. I love the point you made about Clara, I never thought of that one, but it's something to take into consideration. I think this video has put the same thoughts I have on this matter. It's either a cloned Doctor or a cloned timeline of the Doctor's that doesn't involve parallel universes. Technically, he only meant "no parallel universes", so it's possible to consider a Doctor that was the Doctor without being one in the main timeline and I think Rassilon comes to mind when talking about reckless changes to the timeline for the sake of vengeance or his status quo. I'm also thinking it could've been the opposite. What if the original timeline was the Doctor's? It would make sense considering the events of Hell Bent. Maybe Rassilon have tried to change the Doctor's personal timeline and in doing so he created a new timeline to finally have some control over the Doctor after losing his territory on Gallifrey, but the previous timeline is still intertwined to the main timeline somehow, like some sort of fragmented timeline, which would explain why all of this is happening now. Otherwise, you're creating a parallel universe in a way, which Chibnall contradicted already.

[@danielsausaman9767]

7.49 ,shows 8 previously unseen Faces you think are the Doctor ,are Really 8 Previous Faces of the Time Lord war criminal Morbius ,because when the 8 Faces are seen is when Morbius mind is seen on a screen.

[@jamiee7367]

Though the 8 faces shown in "The Brain of Morbius" are usually interpreted in fanon as incarnations of Morbius, the original intention _was_ for them to be incarnations of the Doctor before Hartnell. Producer Phillip Hinchcliffe, while discussing the 8 faces, said that "it is true to say that I attempted to imply that William Hartnell was not the first Doctor." Robert Holmes, a co-writer on the the episode, corroborated this, stating "We don't know which one Hartnell was, whether he was the first or not. In the phantasmagoric scene where they are mind-wrestling, we see the Doctor forced back through a number of regenerations." The episode "The Brain of Morbius" and the statements by Hinchcliffe & Holmes were made before the 12 regeneration limit was established in the episode "The Deadly Assassin", and before the show cemented Hartnell as being the earliest incarnation. As I said, the explanation that the 8 faces are Morbius (and not the Doctor) is typical fanon, but not the original intention. This isn't to say the faces therefore _aren't_ Morbius (I subscribe to them being Morbius as well), simply that it wasn't the original intention.

[@hectorauhector]

You have pretty much covered all the points I had thought regarding Ruth. My main difference is that Lee was also an original version of the Timelord who later became known as the Master.

[@RadChild13]

I speculate a non-linearier time clone. Parallel versions running at the same time in the same universe.

[@Departures1]

Lady Pienforte did in Silver Nemesis hint about 'more than a timelord' and the 'dark times'. However McCoy did have knowledge of those events.

[@SlyerFox666]

I think the T-ruth lies with the 'thing' Jack was talking about with the lone cyberman. ✌️

[@spntageous5249]

yeah and it's probably connecter to the "O" Master

[@Saycheeseburger]

I had the thought: you have the Big Bang from the season 5 finale right? What if with the reset, the doctor, like amy has two sets of memories HOWEVER, the doctor does not remember his new set of previous regens for some reason(idk), only remembering his original set of regens, and Ruth is the Big Bang’s first doctor. Maybe the timelords found out that this new universe that has taken the place of the blown up OG universe is some how the doctors doing and along with a new set of regenerations his timeline and biology snaps in line with OG universe and previous characters of the new universe now retain the OG universe events and memories as a by-product, however this does not negate the female doctor from existing, just having her the one who actually did the stuff but everyone’s memories remember a different doctor, the one we remember Shit tons of wholes but eh

[@soundblaster1987reviews]

What if Tennant and Smith half regenerating after Dalek attacks caused the premature end of his original regeneration cycle, and the Capaldi regeneration was the start of a new cycle? Combine that with the Next Doctor Christmas special and the amnesia storyline of the Shadow the Hedgehog game and you have the Ruth Doctor...

[@Nathan-jf3lr]

I actually like this theory, I don’t know if it’s possible but I really like it

[@soundblaster1987reviews]

@@Nathan-jf3lr thanks. I was just spitballing a possible idea, since the Doctor has met his/her alternate selves several times before...

[@Pfhorrest]

Capaldi is canonically the start of a new cycle. John Hurt was really the ninth Doctor, Eccleston was really the tenth, Tenant was really the eleventh and because of his aborted regeneration the twelfth as well, so Smith was really the thirteenth, and on Trenzalore the Time Lords granted him another regeneration cycle of which Capaldi was the first and Whitaker is the second. That's all explained right before the new regeneration cycle is granted on Trenzalore.

[@cScottD]

My theory is that someone meddled with the Doctor’s timeline (at some point post-Hartnell) causing a different set of regenerations from that point forward. And I think that at some point, the Doctor is going to have to make a decision that will determine which version of time will become “real” and which one will be erased.

[@danielsausaman9767]

The 12th Doctor is the 1st Doctor of this current cycle of Regeneration ,so The 13th Doctor(Series 11,12) who is at this time is current Doctor .

[@aphilipdent]

3 things. 1- the 4th Doctors brain battle with Morbius showed pre-Hartnell incarnations. 2- Rasalon and the Time Lord's revived anyone they want for the time war with the Daleks. Maybe duplicate? 3- Could be a future regeneration and crossing the timelines erased the memory. That's what Hurt, Tennant and Smith said would happen.

[@elizabethmurcia8207]

What about Missy's statement, "since he was a little girl" in The Magicians Apprentice

[@OneDeadArtist]

Elizabeth Murcia wasn’t that followed by another statement, then she said something along the lines of “one of those was a fib”?

[@MrLupis26]

I had thought about this possibility also while discussing the Doctor Who episode with my mum and brother. I believe that this incarnation of The Doctor in addition to being The Other is an incarnation of the Timeless Child. So what if the Time Lords were founded by Timeless Child Doctor and they tried to bury it for reasons we will eventually discover to the point of manipulating The Doctor's timeline to make them forget about their origins. It fits with what The Doctor has been told so far, the Timeless Child is a secrete buried in the genetic memory of all Gallifreyans and Ruth Doctor is an incarnation that The Doctor was unaware of, it seems to me that they fit together quite nicely.

[@ianhardman2973]

The fact of the matter is this, folks... the theories here have been better than the entirety of the past two series! Go on you lot! 😁😁😁

[@FreeJohnDoe2006]

also how ruth can't be pre-first classic is, in the name of the doctor the reenactment of the first doctor stealing the tardis, it was a tube on the outside, also the new one Peter briefly stole was a tube on the outside in series 9, meaning the tube on the outside is now officially cannon not only that but the default settings of all tardis's , Ruth's was police box.

[@videopolice432]

Could it be just someone who believes they are the Doctor? It wouldn't be the first time.

[@AbsoluteAbsurd]

What? Literally watching the episode proves that Jo Martin IS the actual Doctor. :/

[@obibraxton2232]

@@AbsoluteAbsurd lol exactly she has a flippin Tardis

[@1875HIBEESFC]

Chris Chibnall literally said she IS The Doctor. The end titles said ‘introducing Jo Martin as The Doctor’ AND she has a TARDIS

[@videopolice432]

It's just a thought. And yes it is a TARDIS, but it might not be *the* TARDIS we all know.

[@hotdog1214]

Thirteen scans them both, same DNA, same brain, same person.

[@shakes1026]

THANK YOU!!! Finally somebody saying how good she is as the doctor. I don't want the doctor's timeline to be tampered with though. I kinda wish they wrote Jodie's Doctor like Jo Martin's (Ruth)

[@Haltech007]

Is it just me or did Ruth suddenly act and sound a LOT like River Song after she became The Doctor?

[@andrewjohnson1873]

There's a problem with there were 13 other Doctors that regenerated into William Hartnell; we saw William Hartnell depicted as a legit child. I don't mean a "child" like the youngest Doctor we've ever had (Matt Smith); I mean a child, child. Clara grabbed his leg is the episode with Peter Capaldi where she told him to take off without any questions nor giving it a look for once. It makes sense for River Song to have regenerated into a toddler when she died as a child, child (couldn't have been any older than 10--I'd say younger) as she was already so young at the time. The Doctor couldn't have regenerated into a child, child (William Hartnell) unless he was already technically a child at the time. Yes we've seen young Doctors (Matt Smith) regenerate into old Doctors (Peter Capaldi) and we've seen older Doctors into younger Doctors and younger Doctors into slightly older Doctors but we've never once seen the Doctor even at their youngest regenerate into a straight up child. As much as I'd be interested in seeing a teenage Doctor I don't see how any of that would work on the main story's behalf. Maybe a spin-off of sorts though.

[@Matthew_Raymond]

I think the word he was looking for is “comprised”.

[@NorthMountainFairy]

Your theory is so good it forgives the heavy use of dad jokes.

[@DJKin98]

"RUTH Doctor" is for "R U TH Doctor", just like in "ARE YOU THE DOCTOR?"

[@kingofsciencefiction3808]

This theory is amazing! Could totally make sense if this is the route that Chibnall's gone down. I like to think the Timeless Child is connected to the Time War somehow. Maybe the Time Lords were hiding something that the Davros and the Dalek Emperor were after.

[@seanmorris3276]

I think any possibility is insulting. Why Chibnall couldn’t of made her a future incarnation I don’t know, rather than trying to claim the almost 60 year history of the show is false. I think the BBC are being disingenuous about this ‘early incarnation’, masking their ulterior motive, rather than the Early Doctor plot being a stimulating story arch or compelling narrative.

[@jaimiemiddlebrook1003]

I agree! It should be an alternate universe where the time flow of The Doctor's life is behind the one we currently have. A merger in time and space where this alternate universe is colliding into the one we currently have and is meddling. Where the blending is almost to the point of not being able to be undone but The Doctor's team up to separate them. Or where the doctor was infact in the wrong alternate since 9. That would make more sense. One that's so close that the only difference is the doctor and where they travel to or who they travel with up to this point without bumping into each other. (there's still massive flaws in that the theory though.) To rewrite/ruin the whole history of our Doctor is ridiculous and insulting. 😠

[@projektgeronimo2696]

I think Ruth actually is a Time Lord sent by the Gallifrey as their last hope to find the doctor but have some memory accident and become the doctor. She could also be from another universe.