Analysis: The Consequences of Reducing the Skill Gap

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My best attempt at explaining what's going on with Street Fighter V's direction.
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[@zxstrider]

This reminds me of a line from the incredibles “when everyone’s super, no one will be.”

[@Freefork]

That is literally a summary to all of this in one sentence. Sir, you and Disney are *incredible* .

[@thomasscream4179]

Dota 2 is an exception to this that I know of.

[@Unethical.Dodgson]

And it's still not applicable as there are a few top elite players and many players who really just suck. Compare Tokido to say... DSP. "I didn't DO THAT" "It dropped my input!" "I'm blahking that!"

[@franciscozagal5126]

👏

[@mr.q337]

Actually no, the original Dota or Dota 1 was way harder. There are multiple shop, no guide (Item draf), no ability range ring either, you have to calculate the range itself...etc

[@lotgc]

"No! You-you're cheating!!" *"YOU'RE GONNA LEARN!!"*

[@chickenburrito7861]

I don't like Justin Wong's fighting style but he makes sense lol

[@Mikeeeeeeeeeeeeeee3]

do u know the video that clip is from in any chance?

[@lotgc]

I found it kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZoPOkqOcd758nMU

[@Mikeeeeeeeeeeeeeee3]

@@lotgc thanks

[@illaikemurda]

😆😆😆 Dat joint was hilarious

[@jackaler5973]

“If we make it easy, anyone can be the next Diego.” XD

[@mrdude88]

Sounds like Street Fighter V is commenting this video.

[@Simple_Caster]

Of course. The legendary Diego Umejuarez!

[@shapshapshapshap2829]

Diego can be you, Diego can be me, he could even b-

[@undeniablySomeGuy]

@@shapshapshapshap2829 right behind tu

[@gregorymirabella1423]

@@undeniablySomeGuy *tf2 theme plays*

[@ruipedro4337]

I love everything regarding #37. The skill required, the ball crushing guts needed to perform it, the 1HP pixel, the crowd fucking loosing it, Justin Wong trying to shake the table to annoy Daigo's performance, the game giving it a B score.

[@misterblank7795]

You mean *Diego* right?

[@ruipedro4337]

@@misterblank7795, Diego, of course! Damned auto correct 😆

[@misterblank7795]

@@ruipedro4337 I see. Happens to all of us.

[@cottony4dr]

I tried doing this and I was wondering why I wasn’t getting it. Then I realized you have to do it as soon as Chun Li moves

[@NrettG]

@@cottony4dr Yeah it's incredibly hard. You have to do it BEFORE it even lands. With it being a on frame thing as well, you had to be perfect in not only landing it, but predicting it as well since you you couldn't see it.

[@Bus1226]

"I would never want 1 button shoryukens..." *Sweats in smash*

[@equinox-XVI]

It takes *2* buttons ok... But one of the "buttons" is a stick, so your still only pressing 1 button...

[@seiryuumizukamiya3566]

@@equinox-XVI You can increase its power by realizing it as in its original Games

[@equinox-XVI]

@@seiryuumizukamiya3566 Yeah I know, I secondary Ken, but play him much more often. Too bad they nerfed medium shoryu in the air

[@woogachan]

You gotta command for the actually usable version

[@PacMan888]

There is already 1 button shoryukens...

[@PaeroPwns]

Diego Umejuarez

[@xieulong]

Hah!

[@HumorousLOL]

PaeroPwns I actually ran into a guy named exactly that on Soul Calibur 5.

[@WeskerXM96E1]

PaeroPwns *claps hands* 👏

[@homie8333]

Why does this comment have 441 likes? It should have at least 500!

[@ultimaT]

Defeating his archrival, Justino Juan

[@Brick_Squared]

02:06 "No! You're you're cheating!" "You're gonna learn!" Teaching the next generation.

[@dropkickpherby6994]

I have been on both sides of that clip 😂

[@SantanaBanana47]

@@dropkickpherby6994 hahaha me too

[@jjjbj5965]

@@dropkickpherby6994 lol same

[@shinypockets7873]

"but i would never want 1 button shoryukens in street fighter" SF6 Modern Controls has entered the chat 😂

[@ihavenonamek733]

I've been playing fighting games since 1992 and this hits hard.

[@budgetcommander4849]

Modern shoryus are just Classic 2HPs lol

[@joedatius]

funny enough Gerald loves modern controls due to how well designed it is while still ensuring classic players feel valued due to being given more options and damage for their proficiency

[@SilvioPorto]

"If we make it easy, anyone can be the next Diego!" I loled till i cried. Very good delivery of this line.

[@heyvitch]

Silvio Porto when he said Diego I lost it!

[@MisterJonesification]

It was a great line for sure. It showed my frustration with sfv in it's general scrubbiness and ease of play. Players have nothing to strive for, since sfv gives them everything: damage, no defense, no execution, no footsies...you know things that made sf actually sf?

[@Centrioless]

MisterJonesification execution in sf series 🤔 not sure if this guy has ever played sf before sf4.

[@Swayntech]

Silvio Porto thats how he pronounces it every time too

[@CodyRockLee13]

Centrioless, not sure if you're implying that SF4 was the most mechanically demanding SF, of if you're implying that SF2/3 were much harder.

[@Supra_Zero]

I rather get my ass kicked in a game with skill because I can say ok time to train and get better over time than rolling a dice.

[@jacobr4558]

Yes but your attitude is probably 1% of the population. Most ppl would rather have very little skill and guess(rock, paper, scissors) to win. They would rather win without skill than have the pain of losing, learning, mastery.

[@natekite7532]

@@jacobr4558 Well, it's probably more than 1%. Most people do like their skill and investment to be rewarded. There's a reason why Rock Paper Scissors isn't a tournament thing. The problem is that people like to win because they were better than their opponent, but there is a significant amount of people for whom it just hurts too much to lose to an opponent. Only probably 10% would apply this philosophy to video games, but I also feel like saying that plenty of people put in effort to get good at other things. Best examples are things like music and sports.

[@firebread72]

Violent_crimes23 same I used to get my ass kicked in smash bros melee and then I was like, you know what ima learn this game then I win a bunch of games now. Way more rewarding than rolling a dice

[@jacobr4558]

@darklordster here is a simple way to see it. Imagine they make the basketball rim as wide as a hula hoop and only 5 feet off the ground. All the skills that current professionals have would almost be meaningless(dunks, precision, 3 pointers etc). Then say they had 2,3,5,10 point shots as well. So now it is a completely different game. Anyone could compete with anyone. Say they went further and change traveling rules, blocks, dribbling etc to favor the masses. That is essentially what they do. The combos require far less skill, distances don't matter as much, damage is off the charts. With far less effort and practice you can become "skilled". As opposed to master jumpers, free throws, 3 pointers, dunking etc. Having to practice day in and day out getting better and better. In that process you would have to grow, fall, get up, repeat. Crawl, walk, run, jump, fly...very few people want yo do that in reality.

[@anthonyher1953]

Brian Barnes I agree, losing because my opponent is better than me feels better than winning because I just got lucky. Luck should not be a factor in competitive games because it doesn’t reward skill. If you spend a lot of time learning a game, you should be rewarded and therefore win a lot. If you don’t spend a lot of time, you’ll lose a lot. If you don’t have fun losing, you should invest more time or just play party games (Mario Party lol). As Core-A said, party games are fun since the losers can blame their loss on luck, so everyone’s happy

[@Darksky1001able]

It shouldn't be "Anyone can be a champion." It should be "A champion can come from anywhere."

[@JB-bb4su]

This. The spectacle aspect of any highly competitive competition is that "anyone" can NOT do what those at the top of their field do--without putting in the grind required to reach the top of that mountain. We watch the best of the best be the best because it inspires us. If the "best" doesn't require all that much work to get there, then it's not that inspirational. And if it's not inspirational, then it's not usually that entertaining, either.

[@nyukjustacommenter857]

Okay Nice reference. But a reference that never ages badly

[@FantasKanal]

What people dont seem to understand/confuse too often is the difference between lowering the skill gap and lowering the skill floor. Cause lowering the skill floor, while keeping a high skill ceiling, is good. It lowers barriers for entry. Lowering the skill gap just reduces the incentive to get good, because its easy for people who dont care to keep up.

[@DD-po2hh]

True

[@Oliver-rc1sp]

@King of The Zinger The problem with this is that no matter how focused you are, if a poke ball or some other powerful item spawns right next to another player, there's very little you can do about it.

[@tingispingis]

@King of The Zinger If our realities changed to reflect the size of our egos then you would probably be the god emperor of mankind

[@FantasKanal]

@@renookami4651 Thats an example of lowering the skill floor not raising it.

[@Mr_Tux794]

@King of The Zinger have you ever seen competitive smash. There are no items.

[@shadow_clp1416]

2:06 "No, no your cheating" "You gonna LEARN" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@IlIlIlIllIlIllI]

can I get the video from that please? lol

[@FrightNFight]

@nøc the real MVP

[@leonalfa8212]

That shit had me dead

[@chidori7234]

#FamilyBonding.

[@lxcarreon]

Not gonna lie shit was scummy but oh so entertaining

[@ska2oos]

Man. I dont even play street fighter and I feel bad for you guys

[@THEHOLYDEMON351]

I got really into fighting games because of SFV and I love playing the game and it sucks now knowing that it could have been better competitively.

[@georgeoliver3677]

Don't feel bad Third Strike is probably the closest capcom ever got to creating the game that the competitive scene wanted and it almost killed the fighting game scene because the Skill Ceiling was too high. SFV was the right idea just in excess.

[@DSan-kl2yc]

well other things were going on at the time. Came out of nowhere with little advirtising in a climate that was almost done with it. Honestly alpha was more of an anamoly.

[@tarisco614]

George Oliver I couldn't agree more, George. I hated 3S at first because of the skill ceiling, but kept at it because my 2 best friends were so good and loved the game. Unfortunately, it kind of ruined other fighting games for me. When someone who has played Fighting games for years, and the current one since launch can be rocked by a brand new player just copying easymode combos the saw on YT, something is wrong. It's less of a fighting game, and more of just guessing. I hate to say it, because I love fighting games, and really want SFV to be great, but they just went WAY too far in the direction of friendliness to new players.

[@emmanuelmondesir1314]

yet there is a buch of people playin tekken. third strike is hard but can be learn in a week of dedication.

[@zamap4278]

lol not much of an E-sports fan but Floe's statement at the end about fans being finicky has rang so true in traditional sports. People just wanna talk shit and they don't care about the nuances surrounding it. That's why people still debate Lebron vs Jordan but ignore the rules and eras they played in, people debate Anderson Silva or Jon Jones while ignoring the landscape of the sport at the time. It's such a common theme amongst anything that's competitive. Fans just want a spectacle.

[@ninjaluc79]

Same with comparing eras or transplating any basketball player from the era they played in to the modern era and vice versa. People don't actually argue about which era was the best or if any particular player from any era will fit in another. They just want to talk shit about the 80s, the 90s, the 2000s, or the modern era. They just want to talk shit about any player from any era. Like you said, in GOAT conversations they don't actually discuss who is the GOAT, they just really want to talk shit about Jordan, Kobe, or Lebron.

[@davidpineda9160]

Silva vs Jones isn't as far fetched as that, they were champs at the same time for like 2 years.

[@DonkThikkness]

It is toxic, charismatic personalities driving all of the toxicity in that community. Shame their behavior instead of enabling with: silence, indifference, apathy, or joining in by getting swept up in the emotion. At the end of the day it’s still a video game. A form of digital entertainment. I’ve never found their nonsense entertaining. Boo their behavior out of existence.

[@anotheryoutubeaccount5259]

​@@DonkThikkness Or, you could just ignore it. Indifference. It works.

[@justsomeguywithkaminasshad7145]

@@anotheryoutubeaccount5259 If it still persists, clearly it doesn't work.

[@Sir_Robin_of_Camelot]

The thing that devs don't understand,.is that anybody can have fun with a high skill gap. All you need is two people of the same skill level. Competitive and casual are not mutually exclusive. Look at Melee. Two extreme ends of the spectrum are possible.

[@vd2130]

naive

[@biggestbungus1295]

@@antiwufei553 dont start with this arguement

[@cristianrivas2870]

@@antiwufei553 ok troll

[@supremeastro5300]

To be honest, in smash competitive and casual game play is very different, with one having items and resembling more like a party game, and the other actually being a competitive fighting game experience.

[@Sekijuann]

@@supremeastro5300 I agree. Casual and comp Smash feel and look like two completely different games

[@gospeedgamer1838]

"If we make it easy then anyone can be the next Diego" hahaha always cracks me up

[@azim2k10]

Who is diego 🤔

[@Mike-my7uf]

azim2k10 A person among legend who travels everywhere in a red coat. I think that person's first name was Carmen-san.

[@becuzimbrucewayne9337]

Doesn't that mean that lower skill levels has a better chance to beat Tokido? And yet we haven't seen anyone besides Punk and MenaRD who gave Tokido a challenge. Do you not mean that the skill gap reduction helped Punk and MenaRD? Or are you just on a hate hence your favorite player isn't getting the spotlight like they used to in SF4?

[@maxcvipotemkin8227]

So if someone is the best, it's just because he has the best execution then? We want to see "smart plays", not "people playing instruments".

[@becuzimbrucewayne9337]

It's not that. There can only be so many plays depends if the player has the skill level to execute it. The best is the best because he can make the play work because he has the speed, the read, the knowledge level to do so. Someone can think of a play but won't be able to do so because you're fighting another person, someone who can also adapt to the situation as you do. So it's up to the player to find a counter and execute it before the other does also.

[@inciteinsight2331]

It's like chipping the peak of Everest off so people can use it as a paving slab and claim they stood on the peak

[@googleistoofuckingnosey7698]

Hello human brethren.

[@ShinkuGouki]

The pros are just crying because the thing they spent time learning has changed. There's more input leniency, yes but the skill has moved to reads and frame data.

[@yopeepthestyle8308]

Satsui Nohado thats not true. frame data is what the pros used for a long time. the pros and og players have mostly a problem with having to guess, 50\50s, input lag, easier combos, more forgiving input windows. its a fact that fighting games closed the skill gap. its not as much different skills, as less skill required. thats not an opinion of pros but literally how the design of the games have changed. best example is sf4 to sf5. combos and cancels that were insanely hard to pull off can be done by anyone who plays the game for a few months. reads and frame data were always a thing

[@ShinkuGouki]

@@yopeepthestyle8308 Reads and frame data have always been on the minds on pros,only now they have to rely more heavily on those,is what I meant. You can do a merengue beat to parry any combo and it works. The game has become too lenient with input to attract the biggest player-base possible.

[@trumanallen156]

Terrible example: Most people who climb Everest at this point use Sherpas and pay a shit ton of money. Routes are mapped and it’s generally safe. It’s exclusionary because of cost not because of difficulty. In fact your analogy advocates the opposite of what you intended. People literally have basically chopped the difficulty of climbing Everest. Since it’s basically pay to climb. I think there are lots of folks who have free climbed Yosemite who would disagree with your analogy.

[@wiggy8912]

“Anyone can become a champion” This roughly translates to “no one is a champion”

[@harpot678]

Weirdly Smash 4, which is probably the most upset prone Smash game with Rage, 2 Stocks, and janky ass kills had one of the most dominant players in large competitive games.

[@UC3rm0aNC4ysyZipDZotXnZA]

"if everyone is super, then no one is" -Syndrome

[@BigBoy257]

@@UC3rm0aNC4ysyZipDZotXnZA beat me to it

[@ramsaybolton9151]

@@harpot678 the cheese master.

[@bbedeschi]

communism in games: everybody gets their dose of dopamine through purples and yellows

[@dj_koen1265]

“I dont think they want to balance the game, i think they just want to shuffle who you see on screen to make it exciting” *Riot games enters the chat*

[@sonatedaquiTFM]

I was about do comment on this league's preseason. pure dogshit I don't even know if they are following the rules explained on this video or they're just reta

[@texteel]

riot has an absolutely retarded balancing ideology. Every character must have exactly 50% winrate, or they are not balanced. They have been making teh most random-ass idiotic changes from season 1

[@texteel]

@ana they are making a league fighting game, if that ever comes out.

[@BlackLotusV1]

@ana I mean they do really care, even if i dont like this pre season.. League always changes after a year, to be honest i do like that. Oh and also dont forget that every year the viewer count jumps up insanly high

[@genieinthepot2455]

@ana ah, so THIS is the year league is dying? Not any of the previous years where people said it was dying? But this year? How are you so smart!?!?!?

[@demonicgamerazazel9866]

I dunno about most people, but even as someone who sucks at fighting games, I want to see who is the best.

[@Arachninja752]

I suck at most fighting games, which is why I play Smash, cause you can either have a serious match to see who's better or just turn items on and bask in the glorious chaos

[@jdatboi724]

Same but I’m trying to get better at MK but I agree with the video

[@ShinkuGouki]

Street Fighter 5 is a great game of skill. These pros are just crying because more people are learning the new strategies.

[@berkecgl2823]

@@ShinkuGouki I think they're crying about their years of experience on pressing right buttons in right order has become irrelevant. Now that sfv became easier to approach, people can actually win games by outsmarting their opponent.

[@ShinkuGouki]

@@berkecgl2823 I agree that they made SFV easier to learn for starters. I disagree that it's the first game in which you need to outsmart your opponent to win. Every SF game since the beginning has been that way. The pros simply hate that the game is more lenient with inputs and the skill gap has been reduced.

[@BornFreeYT]

This will get buried but thanks for making this video Gerald. It's so important.

[@KaizenMaster007]

BornFree Fighting!!!^^;;

[@johnleemcmulln2168]

BornFree couldna don it without you, the only footage of bonchan calling capcom retarded is yours lmao

[@CoreAGaming]

BornFree Your Bonchan interview is like the thesis for this whole video, lol.

[@sharpgg]

Bonchan didn't say "retarded" in that interview

[@MegaX432]

sharpgg it was really more the translator but Bonchan was saying how stupid the designers were

[@Siinory]

"I would never want to see one-button Shoryuken in Street Fighter": Super Street Fighter IV 3DS would like to have a word with you

[@humbertocastro9663]

Guile's walking forward flash kicks intensifies

[@Siinory]

@@humbertocastro9663 Thank you for the PTSD and good memories of the game haha

[@revimfadli4666]

4:20 this is actually a double-edged sword. Yes players might feel more skilled than they actually are by blaming their losses on RNG, but they might also feel frustrated for being 'robbed' of their victory by the same RNG

[@skyrichardson5737]

why i dont play dnd

[@dakota9821]

@@skyrichardson5737 the goal of dnd isn't to "win". Maybe play the game properly instead of being a murderhobo every time.

[@progste]

I see this all the time in magic the gathering, lots of people saying "land draws ruin the game" when I see them make obvious mistakes.

[@zekrua4006]

@@skyrichardson5737 no one is playing dnd to roll dice. the way you play dnd is by bringing characters together to play out a story. the rulebooks exist for disputes, and are by no means the essence of the game.

[@revimfadli4666]

@@skyrichardson5737 agree with the above, dnd is at its best when used for open-ended storytelling with creative out-of-the-box funny roleplaying decisions. That way, weird dice rolls simply become prompts for equally unexpected story directions. Meanwhile, playing it as a "standard" combat game is kinda meh since it's overly complicated in that regard

[@dargo5025]

Interesting note by Sakurai. He actually had the intention the entire time to make a game that was fun and less on the competitive side when making Smash. It’s the reason Brawl was so different. It was his choice. Nowadays Ultimate can be both, and it’s very great. I think games nowadays are actually starting to slowly find methods of appeasing both contestants and casuals.

[@happycamperds9917]

The game obviously has flaws but the fact that they are trying is great. And some people love the game also, and good for them. If Smash 6 is ever released, I hope they can learn from some of their mistakes, and the better hardware should allow them to make better netcode.

[@baconknightproductions8297]

My "Level 9" Jigglypuff thinks otherwise

[@AffyMoon]

Yeah, I definitely see that ultimate is trying to spread into both casual and competitive sections. and honestly, it's doing quite well

[@rapha2028]

Yeah it’s both easy to play, but really hard to go in depth and learn all the mechanics and basic fighting game knowledge, even though i watched core a gaming before i got smash, i played the newest 3 mortal kombat, mk9, mkx, and mk11... in mk9 i spammed the square button while playing. In mkx i think i tried to play a bunch of characters all the time, and in mk11 i olayed scorpion and maybe *a lot* more charachters, but my pattern was like this: ROUND 1: FIGHT start of round, i do a teleport Then use the offense meter to launch them in the air I back up, start to do some combo strings and repeat until i win all rounds

[@rapha2028]

Let me continue Anyway when i got ultimate i watched a bunch of tutorials and watched who to “main” which i knew what it meant but didn’t pick one for mk11... I first picked marth but that didn’t work for me, then i chose cloud since i heard he was pretty easy and had a decently big hitbox and really good moves, not the best but pretty good. Then i was like “hmmm i like sword characters, i wanna go for a fire emblem character” and after playing lucina and robin and roy, i picked roy. Had a pretty fun time with him. But now i main mario too, but i want to just main two characters at maximum, so i’m still deciding but i’m not playing anymore since i’m playing tekken 7. *i play lee if anyone’s asking*

[@nolan3770]

"you're cheeating" "YOU'RE GONNA LEARN"

[@unrealsobat2685]

Nice speedwagon profile picture

[@RagingDemon99]

SPEEDWAGON

[@ItsLynch1]

You bit za dusto

[@settingittowumbo1953]

Him in 10 years when he teaches his daughter how to play street fighter lol

[@blackneotheone2978]

U gone learn today im a spammer ya lil shit 😆

[@soggyramen6031]

I’ve seen the daigo parry so many times and it never gets old

[@eu4um]

It’s crazy how much SFV has changed since this vid dropped. I’d love to see Gerald do a followup “Sidenote” video just on SFV’s changes.

[@Sorrelhas]

11:16 Aged like fine wine

[@Tungdil_01]

What changed from the second season to the last season?

[@goddard9669]

@@Sorrelhasyup

[@awsomebot1]

Changed for better or worse?

[@CJaygg]

2:07 " YOU'RE GUNNA LEARN" LMFAOOOOO

[@Mute14_]

CJay yOu'Re ChEaTiNg

[@Pootis-hn3ky]

THIS IS THE REAL WROLD

[@andresgv10]

Too bad I can't like a video twice. This is probably one of the most important videos you've ever done. Good job.

[@CoreAGaming]

andresgv10 Thanks, man.

[@alexandermfierro3018]

andresgv10 I couldn't agree more. Fantastic video! Thank You for shedding light on this harrowing issue

[@geminimanwhocan]

Great comment bud, I subscribed as soon as the vid finished playing

[@ryansumayo4261]

andresgv10 Capcom is doing pretty much the same for Marvel vs Capcom with use of infinity stones

[@boytaba1268]

andresgv10 d

[@shintenkai1648]

"I would never want 1 button shoryukens in street fighter" BRO WHY DID YOU GIVE THEM IDEAA 😂😁😄😐😔🥺😢😭☠️

[@thesmokinggamer8149]

yoo i came loookin for this comment 😂😂

[@joedatius]

luckily he loves how SF6 handled 1 button shoryus

[@mrgabest]

Justin zoning out that kid will never not be funny.

[@SplashyandDuckiesadventures]

Me:man SFV is kinda hard to land combos Video: SFV lowered the skill gap Me : DAMNIT EDIT: I understand what you mean. After almost a year I was on and off sfv and now I find it incredibly easy compared to older games. But I see it as a way to bring in newer players to the scene.

[@fuzzythoughts8020]

This is why I find it hard to sympathize. These pro players are on a level most consider untouchable, lowering the skill gap (by lets be honest, not a significant amount, noobs suck at SFV as much as any other 2d fighter) is kind of necessary if they want any form of longevity. People have so many options today, that if a game is too much of a brick wall to get into, they'll play something else, so I find it completely reasonable to make combos more forgiving and easily performed, because skilled players know how to answer those things, noobs don't. At the end of the day, I see this as pros being whiny bitches that they have to worry about more competition that could unseat them at any time.

[@paulovinasrocha6166]

@@fuzzythoughts8020 they are angry because they train for months on and on, just to loose to someone who will stop playing the game after a month. so you calling them whiners realy shows what type of player you are.

[@Hwa-Jai]

@@paulovinasrocha6166 I just picked the game up and i'm pretty sure its gonna take more than a month or even a year for me to get even half decent at the game let alone stand a chance against a pro player. I've also been playing Quake since Quake 1 and even with the new character abilities in Quake Champions, i can easily beat a new/intermediate/advanced player who is using an S tier champion by muscle memory , better map knowledge and fundamentals while using an F tier champion. If they are really pro's then none of these should matter, they shouldn't be beaten by someone new or less experienced. SF V isn't a luck based game. So yes it does sound like whining or more specifically it sounds like gatekeeping. Is SF V dumbed down? I honestly don't know as this is my first fighting game and i am loving it. Even if they made the next one harder like the older iterations , i'd still pick it up because now i understand why fighting games are awesome.

[@paulovinasrocha6166]

@@Hwa-Jai sf5 is not a bad game. The problem people had with it in the early seaons is that the skill difference between starters and expert was almost non existance

[@mangozone3000]

Damm but combos are really easy to pull off in sfv

[@DickTrickleqt]

ＰＲＯＦＯＵＮＤ ＳＡＤＮＥＳＳ

[@DickTrickleqt]

hey look i post """ironic""" memeshit videos i actually work really hard on because i thought i could cash in on free views but because i can't do literally anything correctly in my entire life i fail at that too and have less subscribers than someone who has never post a video with a smug anime girl for a profile picture

[@DickTrickleqt]

screenshot 1 time i have done that even ironically

[@TheAztecWarrior100]

Dick Trickle ill be more than happy to give me 5mins

[@DickTrickleqt]

puu.sh/w3bM3/3288678a3c.png i'll give you an hour because you couldn't meet your own deadline

[@DickTrickleqt]

puu.sh/w3dPW/8bef30fc9d.png thanks for playing i've never been wrong in my life

[@CURSEisabastard]

the reason i love sf3 so much is because even when i get my ass kicked it feels good to know that the dude who absolutely destroyed me took a lot of time to practice the things they used

[@wallacesousuke1433]

liar, I bet that you got salty and send them death threats xD

[@kewalgurung8802]

liar, I bet you got salty and send them death threats. XD

[@CURSEisabastard]

who are you people

[@lief5957]

liar, I bet you got salty and send death threats. XD

[@k3mari.__638]

@@CURSEisabastard 😭😭😭"who are you people"

[@ruipedro4337]

"They could be the next Diego" is the Daigo Parry of sick burns.

[@Theplayergamer2012]

I'll tell you why they don't ask the community before making a game or making changes: Because casual players, give more money than competitive ones.

[@Jarory1]

And e-sports partners give more than either of those two groups.

[@Kenyaschannel]

Jarory de Jesus no. Casuals give the most money. How do you think they gain esports partners? From having made money in the past. So you have to cater to your audience as a whole, which SFV got wrong anyway being so bare bones. If SFV:AE was the launch it would’ve had more acclaim. No matter what more skilled players say they can’t be beaten by a scrub like myself, not on their worst day and my best. They’re just being selfish, in terms of gameplay. Casuals don’t have the time or will or skill to improve and so making combos easier is a benefit. The combos aren’t as easy as skilled players make it seem. I can barely pull them off consistently and I’m the best out of my pool of friends. I’ll take the time out to learn some combos and I can come back to a game that I’m good at but most people can’t. Skilled players complain about SFV being too easy but for most it’s too hard. For me it’s perfect especially with the patch from a few months ago that adjust frame rates.

[@akirayatagama]

@@Kenyaschannel Or maybe they dont find it fun when they know they have more potential then they can use in the game. Its like being a soccerplayer waking up and then you can only dribble at your 12yo capacity. Because everyone should get a chance to win :D

[@jesuszamora6949]

And yet, SFV sold less than SFIV.

[@hungerxhunger2548]

No they don't lol

[@NakeyJakey]

great video

[@Freefallendless]

NakeyJakey yooo

[@kun4i503]

NakeyJakey keep up the good vids hot boy. Dog bless.

[@syukrir.robert8994]

OMG HOT BOYS IS HERE

[@syukrir.robert8994]

Dog bless

[@mellowboar9160]

Hot boye

[@senniboyo8672]

'i would never want 1 button shoryukens' well ig that is a thing now with modern controls in sf6

[@MrBones105]

Inb4: “why do you hate that the game is more accessible?” “I love that I don’t have to learn how this game has worked for literally decades to play it.” “You’re just mad because you’re bad at the game.”

[@GinkgoPete]

Yeah and its somehow fine. SF6 is amazing.

[@Robospy1]

@@GinkgoPete true

[@Agent_A_Graham]

​@@MrBones105Or when they call me an oldhead or boomer. I'm 26 years old. Lmao. I started SF in 2013. Capcom is just enabling otherwise lazy players with Modern controls, and pros having to support it. That's likely why Core-A hasn't touched anything on SF6.

[@tucker2138]

I think DBFZ balances easy to pick up, competitive depth, and fun to watch really well.

[@joshuafallet5690]

I've been playing dbfz for a long time now. I am trash but I love to watch high level gameplay.

[@arielmatiauda5110]

In DBFZ, you match against someone better than you and you don't get to even play the game

[@tucker2138]

@@arielmatiauda5110 who?

[@arielmatiauda5110]

@@tucker2138 cares

[@TetrisShark70]

I like fighterz but god I'm terrible at it

[@ApexGale]

What fighting games really need are lower entry floors for the game. Add extremely informative tutorials and give the players combos so that they can understand the nuances. Then have a high skill ceiling alongside an extremely well-balanced game system. That way, nobody is left out. UNIST has to be one of the best examples of a game like this, I just can't stop playing it, and I'm not even great at fighting games. Same system of rewarding aggression while still having good defensive options, versatile characters, and comebacks are still a sight to see

[@retrorami]

Newer players don't like that. They don't want to learn, they wouldn't follow a tutorial. They want instant gratification. They want to feel badass, like they're master of the game as soon as they start playing. If they feel like they're not doing good from the beginning, they'll proceed to talk shit about the game, and will leave to the next thing that treats them as if they were a superior being. The problem isn't exactly on the developer side of the things, it's the consumer base. The devs only feel Inclined to se their souls and appeal to this crowd. And that's why the industry has a lot of problems nowadays: games are more expensive to make, people demand more realistic graphics, but they'll drip the game in a month or less, and sell them. Feeding this crowd is dangerous to the industry, but these companies apparently can't see it or they just don't care.

[@huckmart2017]

This is why I like smash. I can pick the game up as a new player, and learn the basic mechanics and get a feel for a lot of the characters in the single player modes and not feel like I'm putting an axe to a grinder, which is how most fighting games make me feel while playing the single player. But with smash, there are so many wacky, fun things to experience outside of competitive matches, which further excites me to play competitive, because I already cultivated interest and fun in the game. Fighting game developers really just need to get more creative with how they present challenges to players in single player. Its more fun and rewarding to go up against a giant, metal bowser, wielding a baseball bat on a moving stage than it is to fight a level 10 ai shao kahn that reads your inputs

[@O1OO1O1]

What if you remove the need for a tutorial and combos? (mostly) well, you may still need tutorials, but then you get games like Smash, Fantasy Strike, Pocket Rumble, and Yomi. I think so many players don't realise how deep the skill well goes without complex execution, since they spend so much time grappling with and mastering execution that they don't have time to master greater things, like using intuition (for things like yomi--reading your opponent--and valuation) and time-slowing down ability (one of perhaps more phenomenon high level players report). Too bad people are sitting in training mode mastering a FADC combo, rather than reading life-enhancing material on psychology, mastery, intuition, and consciousness. Yes, all those subjects can make you a better player. Not without practice and game knowledge, but research shows deliberate application of research-based techniques can lead to faster learning, with better outcomes, than those who do things in a longer, harder, haphazard way. Want to learn a game 5x faster? I know I do! You won't read about this in many guides, or hear about it KZbin essays, but it's what we _should_ be talking about. I'm really keen for games that facilitate that. Rather than hours in training mode, lest we wiff a special attack at a crucial moment and have our correct strategic thinking nullified by our inability to execute it. (Though we can still have execution heavy games, for those who want that.)

[@MrVladDubrovski]

Skullgirls have one of the best tutorial i've ever seen in fighting games. It teaches basics along with more advanced techniques like Cancelling and Chaining

[@poodychulak]

@@retrorami This sounds more self-reflective than anything else. A lot of guys with a couple decades of technical, competitive fighting game experience want to continue to curbstomp with each new generation of game. A big reason why I never got into arcade fighters, the guys who hung around never let you break in. Mechanical simpicity and technical depth make compelling gameplay, it's a good formula.

[@nick28t]

This might be the most well put together video I have seen in a long time, thank you for putting this out there for us. Amazing points.

[@scotty4421]

Nick28T why'd you post this

[@davidnarez6780]

Nick28T what if EA and all other companies created their game with multiple skill level "modes". For example, make FUT how it in its current AI state as a "casual mode" and then also have the option for competitive or "hardcore mode" that is AI limited or minimized with non existent button delay? Where competitive game modes like FUT champs is auto defaulted to "hardcore mode". So If I want to play online seasons, I can choose "casual mode" or "hardcore mode" before entering a match? Essentially game companies can code "two modes" within the same game, catering to all communities, casual and competitive. This concept can be applied to all "competitive" esports games and hopefully increase skill gaps. Just my thoughts.

[@MrAlious]

i think there is a certain skill to reducing the skill gap. though it may work for some it might not work for others. considering that though the issue i find with most is not the reduced skill gap but the reduced skill ceiling. when you compare McV3 to SFV, both had a reduced skill gap. the difference is that MvC3 has an insane skill ceiling that has people till date finding new combos while SFV pretty much had them all discovered in its first week. on top of that they tend to patch out certain tech

[@TheOwlMan8850]

"i would never want one-button shoryukens in street fighter" prophetic.

[@joedatius]

and crazy enough he loves Modern controls

[@kuiby1121]

"I'd never wanted one button shuriyuken in a SF game" 11:01 Oh god.. if he's knew...

[@Ktronprime]

Bonchan "Elementary school students creating a patch".... Savage

[@alleygh0st]

why not have a 'win' button while we're at it?

[@GForce9x]

I think Tekken 7 tried to do this with the stupid Rage Arts. About to lose the round? No problem! Just push R1 and hope your opponent isn't blocking or going for a low hit at the same time!!

[@UNKNOWNANG3L]

Wrong. It is a "Might Win" but " Definitely Lose" Button.

[@eide99]

Because then people will complain that the other guy was able to hit it faster than they did...so then that'll need to be nerf'ed too. The nerf will be...they both win.

[@ReaperSound]

The "Beat a game button" was invented by AVGN

[@carmadarkid]

for only 6.99 :)

[@rapha2028]

I really want a follow-up of this video, “the advantages of reducing the skill floor” and maybe even “the consequences of heightening the skill ceiling”

[@juniikuma]

Same. this is a really interesting video and I want to see how it holds up today.

[@pacman10124]

God I wish

[@chris-cu3kl]

If Guilty Gear Strive delivers on a “simplified” GG, I can see the former as a topical video for later in the year

[@spacejamgoliath]

It's been done. I forget the name of the video. But it's much harder to make a game too difficult was the conclusion I gathered. For the most part games that were made to be intentionally too difficult or even "impossible" have been systematically broken while games that are too easy are just forgotten

[@sylvidra5683]

A consequence of increasing the difficulty too much, would be something like a technique that's completely neccesary, and if you don't do it or you can't, you are at automatic disadvantage, for example, L-canceling in melee, the problem is that L-canceling also hinders the players becoise there were cases in wich the player got his hand hurt becouse of L-cancel. Another example would be 1 frame links, combos, etc, they are nice to have if they are your optimal route, but only if it's not completely neccesary in order to play your character.

[@chaselowell4567]

“I would never want 1 button shoryukens in street fighter.” Aged very well thank you street fighter six.

[@TheGOAT-hj6sl]

And that is why no one cares for SFVI.

[@elim9054]

​@@TheGOAT-hj6slSF6 has like four times as many entrants at this year's Evo as Tekken lmfao. What are you talking about

[@TheGOAT-hj6sl]

@@elim9054 The FGC shills for whatever Capcom game while fans don't care LMFAO. What are you talking about?

[@TheGOAT-hj6sl]

@@elim9054 And why are you ignoring the fact that Evo doesn't mean $hit as the FGC aren't the majority?

[@elim9054]

​@@TheGOAT-hj6slYeah dude they're "shilling" by willingly paying money to sign up for a tournament. You've cracked the code and definitely don't sound like an insane retard

[@PKiX]

Dropped a hype combo for this

[@PKiX]

No regrets

[@ovosile16]

C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!

[@benshaul6976]

PK NEIN when have you ever got a combo in your life

[@PKiX]

Ben Shaul boi I get more combos than you ever will

[@elliegray8184]

This video made me realize something. It's not that suddenly nowadays audiences want cheap spectacles. It's that a (relatively) large group do want that, enough people to make a profit off of, and it's WAY WAY EASIER for developers and movie makers and animators, you-name-it, to produce things for that group. And that's how you end up with this society where "nothing's as good as it used to be" and "the masses just mindlessly consume" are treated like laws of physics and it'd be stupid to expect anything different.

[@manuelsantana4822]

That's the problem. Everything is about profits now, there is no longer a loyalty to any of the previous consumers who brought these companies to where they're at. I used to be a die hard Street Fighter fan.......used to.

[@aeonexoriginal]

I disagree, it's way more complex than that. It's consumer driven culture which craves a spectacle, it's not "human nature" to "crave spectacles. Humans aren't driven to consumption either, since Native American culture exists, Environmentalists, etc. and their principle ideals don't/didn't focus on consumption. Many cultures and societies adopt environmental attitudes, and they in turn, don't care for spectacles. The spectacle is specifically a product of consumerism. That is because a consumption based culture can't have all consumers and no producers. There must be both. And since producers are often the ones rewarded in a consumerist based culture, they in turn receive the most wealth/status/power. And since consumers aren't producers, they in turn seek to look like a producer, they "fake it til they make it." This has happened here in gaming culture, as well as in music, business, politics, and many other areas of society, the spectacle is not isolated to video games. What is genius about this video is that it addresses the spectacle and the problem it creates in games, without going off topic like I did.

[@megac4]

Take a look into the movie Idiocracy... kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6i9YY2LrpyDaac

[@vicentecarrasco6188]

"We need more games with soul, less DLC and less crap"

[@warrdadlani8494]

Spot on. The formula for a lot of entertainment appears to be (dumb plus pretty) equates to profit. Seeing as there's probably no other goal for developers to aim for, say "let's make games for gamers" because most probably their benefactors/investors/stakeholders will come down hard on them, fire them or whatever. Yes it's a dark future we live in, now.. Hopefully some new breed of developers (crowd funded devs?) will evolve that will then force a revolution from the lazy, yet pretty *.*, media we get.

[@l1ghtd3m0n3]

Evo Moment 37 is like doing a perfect run of Through the Fire and Flames - both take mad skill to even approach them.

[@Axryuu]

I REALLY WANT TO KNOW YOUR OPINION NOW THAT THERE IS 1 BOTON SHORYUKENS

[@Agent_A_Graham]

Would be career suicide to comment any criticism on SF6. Any criticism of the game mechanics will be dogpiled by the fans. It's like a cult right now. I have never seen FG toxicity to this degree before.

[@nicholaslewis279]

I actually found it difficult to do combos in SFV because of how easy it was. I was coming from doing 1 frame combos and plinking from sf4. I was doing inputs too quickly in V. xD

[@destroyathedestroyer]

Ayo same, especially the shinten (lp,mp,hp) now you have to wait for mp to go a lot longer than usual if that makes sense

[@alfredopasta3784]

@Dylan Paulette yea, in sf4 you had to to combos really quickly compared to sfv

[@Kitsune_Chara_CG]

@@alfredopasta3784 it feels like old cent from for honor interms of waiting time once you got hit you could go for a quick sip of a drink bc it took so long for the combo to finish

[@toystolife1678]

“The problem with being faster than light, is that you can only live in darkness”

[@Repudiate]

@@rleften5788 you are the only sane person in this thread.

[@adanquinones4554]

Dude your stuff is so rewatchable. I've watched all your videos at least 3 times.

[@jacebeleren1703]

I was very surprised by this as well, they ve become my default videos to watch when i'm bored and want to watch something interesting.

[@pizzaschnoesel5896]

each only 3 times? Let time be the judge of how often you're gonna come back to these banger vids :D

[@mattwill879]

6 years later and... enter "modern" controls with 1 button shorukens and assisted combos.

[@pellevastano]

You know, watching this video now, and as someone who is bad a fighting games put still enjoys them a lot, I think Capcom was looking way too heavily into how to make the game easier to draw in new players, and they ended up failing to deliver the product you actually need to bring in new players and casual players when they launched in 2016. Sure, the game was easier, but the UI was inconsistent, there was a lack of features outside of the fights themselves, the graphics were both really good and really bad at the same time while also being far too demanding for most systems, and it didn't do the job of teaching new players how to play a proper game of Street Fighter. On top of that, by the time they added the features that would appeal to new and casual players, they had already found new ways to alienate the audience all over again, like adding advertisements into loading screens and nerfing fight money, not to mention the grand story mode they promised was really short and pretty laughably bad. And it hurts for me, especially as someone who got into Street Fighter thanks to Street Fighter 4, and how much fun Street Fighter 4 was even as someone who is bad at the game. Sure, the netcode was bad, and sure there isn't much in the game outside of arcade and online fights, but at some point I got a complete game with a good and diverse set of characters that felt responsive to the touch of my gamepad, and I was satisfied. Street Fighter 5, on the other hand, I will always remember as my very last preordered game, and that hurts as someone who got really into Street Fighter thanks to Street Fighter 4.

[@dj_koen1265]

I think your experience is what will signify sfv historically

[@ONIGIRIKINGU]

we need a video talking about zoning and keepaway and the hate towards it. also love your stick art. who is that?

[@egmusic1925]

Suigintou101 juri's new sfv costume

[@ONIGIRIKINGU]

otaku man oh thank maybe I should get back into sf 5 cause I stopped playing 2 weeks after Juris release. i want that skin

[@NeilMacay]

Very apt considering the hate towards Deadshot's zoning in Injustice 2 at the moment.

[@TheLoneAlpaca]

Suigintou101 I second this. Especially with Injustice 2. No zoning in SFV. I've played games of melee with friends and I have a style based more on traditional fighters where I weave on to be honest sometimes run away to make space and poke people out. And friends have a joke about me playing "lame" or "campy." TL DR- That sounds like a very interesting video topic

[@egmusic1925]

Suigintou101 ya maybe but the tiers have been flipped and tossed everywhere. check out SRK its a whole new ball game

[@kevinedward6132]

I'm crap at street fighter but when I won sometimes it felt good, learning how to combo etc and then doing it so winning was more rewarding when it happened. Lowering better players to my crappy level punishes everyone because I'm not going to get better, it's just lowering the bar and that's not rewarding for anyone.

[@OtaniNoAsagi]

Kevin Edward same. I’d always get wrecked in Soul Calibur 4 but I’d purposely fight better players to increase my own skill level and reaction times.

[@dsandoval9396]

Dauragon Yae Galvus EXACTLY. I had some Asian friends that were hella good at SF and it helped me be a better player. Yeah I got my ass handed to me ssoooooooo many times but by the time I was done my combos and timing were surgical. I remember a few years after that I was playing at an arcade and this Asian dude put his quarters in (Marvel VS Capcom, the first one) and I beat him. My first time beating an Asian kid. He was good too, don't ask me why Asians are so good. Maybe just in my area? But it sure feels good to win against someone trying their best.

[@metalstick7796]

So once the meta rewraps itself around the new game design aim to get good in the new form of the meta playing against the new better players? Nani?...

[@ignfan4life]

Except people like you still aren't winning tournaments. Combos are easier. So what? There are a lot of nuances of the game that determine the winner. There's so much more to it than successfully executing combos.

[@-Trauma.]

WHY THE FUCK ISNT: MARVEL SUPER HEROES MARVEL SUPER HEROES VS STREET FIGHTER XMEN VS STREET FIGHTE MARVEL VS CAPCOM MARVEL VS CAPCOM 2 MARVEP VS CAPCOM 3 ON THE PS STORE?!?!?!?! WITH ONLINE CAPABILITY?!?!?!?!

[@eyeversion]

I remember playing kings of fighter 94 and mastering one character at a time and i felt so proud that now i do all the moves(only) i still took some time to learn combos and then to actually execute them against opponents. By the end of series it was all so simple almost all sdms had similar moves.

[@derekfcc]

No lie, probably the best music on any channel. Thank you for the playlist. Makes my day much easier to get through

[@danielnolan8848]

Idk why they add input lag, it only favors the most casual , who will drop the game after a week and never touch it again. It pissss off everyone else, no matter the skill level

[@holyknightthatpwns]

If you buy the game, they don't care if you drop it in a week or a decade

[@MsDestroyer900]

Input lag is the result of rendering and graphics. Essentially other parts of the game have to buffer before reading your input. It's the result of either poor hardware or poor optimization. It's something that can definitely be fixed with patches but not without sacrifices on many different aspects of the game.

[@danielnolan8848]

@@MsDestroyer900 or a deliberate decision as in ultimate and ss5 to some extent

[@gusbabiski]

@@MsDestroyer900 you don't have any idea of what input lag is

[@LTCloud9]

Wait..they ADDED the input lag? I thought it was shitty programming or something along those lines. Holy fluck, Crapcom like sucking casuals dicks, don't they?

[@konakg8174]

Wombo Combo is definitely an example of one of these events in fighting games. "I think we're all a little hard right now" is probably the best quote to explain that feeling. Everyone who knows the game is having a stroke from what they just witnessed, and everyone that doesn't know will just get sucked into it. I used to play a fan made smash with other people at lunchtime in the library. I'm not going to sugar coat it, I absolutely sucked. I spent time learning it and I still sucked, but I loved it and played it everyday. Even with my very basic knowledge, I was still in the group screaming our hearts out when someone managed to predict twice perfectly and then land a five hit air combo. There weren't any stakes, we were just playing. There was still the genuine hype, and that's what you lose when you water down these games. I'm more of a fps player myself, but I've basically fallen out of the game because all the new stuff just gets worse and worse. I'm currently sitting here playing single player survival games most of the time.

[@5ryce]

party game

[@jalene150]

I really hope the FPS game you was into was overwatch. It describes exactly why I stopped playing as much.

[@diresama5301]

Was the fan made game smash flash

[@ebbandfloatzel]

@@jalene150 If I'm being honest, the new stuff isn't that bad. Brigg was a monster that, single-handed, brought the most cancerous meta into existence, but everything else has been fine. I quit playing because they won't increase the content pipe even though they've stated multiple times they KNOW more heroes will "fix" many of the balancing issues they face... And also because of those balance issues existing for months at a time. It was not fun playing dive for nearly 3 months. It was not fun being forced to have specific supports or lose. It was not fun to lose just because I like to play Hog. The game has been extremely unbalanced. And that drove me away from the game. Oh, and Lunar *fucking* Colony.

[@zailemldo8903]

I agree, I used to be bad at SF but it did not stop me from playing and enjoying it and when I improved my game, it felt much more rewarding being able to pull harder combos because of my perseverance and not because the game was holding my hand.

[@revimfadli4666]

4:43 interestingly, one of the chess world champions proposed to add random setup to _increase_ the skill factor, by forcing players to improvise rather than rely on memorized openings

[@notimeforcreativenamesjust3034]

They made a video about that called hiners and innovators

[@richardsejour7731]

The person who made this video has no idea what he is talking about. This video is nothing but a rallying call for oldheads to complain about perceived lack of skill in a game that does not pander to them.

[@revimfadli4666]

@@richardsejour7731 Tbf it didn't separate between lowering skill gap vs skill floor(while keeping a high skill ceiling)

[@Gir558]

Well, I feel like that's a bit different in something like high level chess where memorization is the primary skill at work. You don't need reflexes, or instant reactivity in chess, even with turn timers you're given time to think, and so if something you aren't prepared for happens you always have time to react and adapt, and generally speaking who wins often comes down to a question of "who's memorized more counters." In a fighting game it doesn't matter how much you know theoretically, I could spend hundreds of hours reading guides, watching play and so on, memorizing all the ideal moves to make in any given moment, and it wouldn't matter in the slightest if I didn't also have the reflexes to pull those moves off, the practice needed to consistently hit unforgiving, possibly frame perfect combos, and enough muscle memory to pull off those ideal moves on instinct rather than have to remember them first. Even in high level chess you have the luxury of taking a moment to remember the move you need to make, but that's not the case in fighting games, which means something random happening is much more likely to be the single deciding factor of a match. Honestly, I'd go so far as to say that without randomization of any kind chess isn't even a game of skill in the first place: its a game of knowledge.

[@gustavogoesgomes1863]

@@Gir558 if that was the case, chess would have been "solved", like checkers have been. that's why professional checkers matches are played today in 10x10 or even 12x12 boards instead of the 8x8, because there is a sequence that guarantees a draw or win if the player memorizes it. and so far, no engine could even come close to solve chess, wich proves you wrong. yes, memorization is VERY important in chess, but to an extent. if you are competing, memory will only get you so far. eventually, even if you have the most prodigious memory ever known to humanity, you'll still have to face the elite of the elite, with similar memorization skills and inhuman intelligence to back it. if that wasn't the case, players would stick to the same openings always, there would be no benefit in learning other ways to play as memorization is the only skill required.

[@bookerlee8079]

For me, the problem is dealing with the skill ceiling AND the skill base. There has to be a good amount of distance between the two for there to be a good competitive scene. I think that companies are both lowering the skill base and reducing the skill ceiling, when they shouldn't be doing that, they should instead lower the skill base BUT keep the same or increase the skill ceiling. An example of this would be what I'm familiar with, smash. Melee has a high skill ceiling, with wave dashing, shield drops, etc., but has a pretty high skill base; getting use to 1-frame inputs for every single input, including just basic movement, is very jarring when most fighting game have input buffers. Then brawl came out, which lowered the skill base, but severely reduced the skill ceiling, adding rng in tripping, very little combo potential, and divided the competitive scene in two. While brawl did have a strong competitive base, I feel like it was a wrong turn, competitively at least.

[@One3673241]

A game design/analysis channel that's not pretentious bullcrap and actually intelligent? Liked, faved, subbed.

[@iownalx23]

One3673241 dont forget doesnt try too hard to be funny or cute either.

[@One3673241]

True that.

[@PyrrhoVonHyperborea]

pretentious, adjective. - "making demands on one's skill, ability, or means" Check! - "full of pretense or pretension;" Check! ... even though the gullible will not see it. Please tell me 2 things, so maybe you'll realize something: 1. Who are "the Players" of the game in question, in accordance to this video; is it everyone who buys the game? - or just a tiny elite, whilst the majority is excluded by definition, as if it doesn't even exist? - what do the concerns of those "others" matter? 2. where is the revenue coming from, if not from Sponsoring? - is it sales? - then who is going to buy the product, if the majority of potential customers mean shit in accordance to this pretentious (!), pseudo-critical video? - if a major title, with big budget in production, is catering only to a handful of elite players - how does the company finance itself? - if not through the ebil, ebil sponsoring, that is so mean and disruptive - what then? - and if it is sponsoring -- well: who is gonna watch those events and give the back-bone to the advertisement-interest, if not a large player base that does not feel left out? This video horrendously fails at seeing the bigger picture, but pretends (hint hint...) to be this critical, in depth deconstruction of the problem. He completely ignores commercial concerns and player-numbers. If you want a title that caters to the needs of a tiny elite, go look out for that in niche-titles from the indie-scene. If you want, however, that big titles cater to that sort of thing, then that's a case of wanting your cake and eat it, too. There's nothing wrong with wanting a big skill-gap; but it's borderline retarded to demand such a thing from a popular title; that's just entitled, and if the maker of this video was worth his salt as a critical observer, he'd know that fully well; but it seems he isn't even intelligent enough to have to fake his ignorance; judging from the exclusive use of the term "player" (pretentious, yet again; as if only a tiny elite even deserves that [broad] label), he's totally unaware of the deeper dilemma, the conflict between mass-appeal and idiosyncratic, demanding (pretension...) concerns... This video caters to pretentious fuckwits, who like to *_think_** of themselves* as being intelligent, but are actually too lazy to put in the work of critical thinking, to be worth such considerations. IN short: pretentious wannabes; Dunning Krugers!

[@jackburton6239]

I actually disagree. Scrubs are not winning at SFV tournaments. It is still the few hard core competitors that succeed. The idea that a fighting game needs techniques that are so difficult it takes months of practicing to actually succeed at them are not necessary to make a good fighting game IMO.

[@One3673241]

They are in a way, as they help to separate the good players from the bad.

[@Ludvix]

4:03 looks familiar.... :) amazing video like always btw

[@FRIEDTOASTMP4]

What are you doing here

[@itszednotzee1052]

o just realized it was ur video btw papa johns cheated cant hit trainers

[@MrSporeaddict123]

★★★★

[@femtohimself71]

huh, just rewatched this just cause and you're here only two weeks ago, interesting

[@joshualessore7652]

LUDVIX PLEASE GRACE US WITH MORE SSB CONTENT!!!!!!!

[@pampamtamtam4001]

0:32 Thanks, I actually didn't know how to do this and was wondering.

[@prophecyofgaming]

Rewatching the video, to me, the last part about communication between developers and players really resonates with strive's developer blogs and surveys, I hope this becomes a trend and healthy communication between boths sides helps in the development of better games

[@ovosile16]

"Good games stay within, but at the outer edge, of the player's regime of competence. That is, they feel doable but challenging. This makes them pleasantly frustrating." - James Paul Gee

[@Fatlord27]

They made a game for the casual fans, but didn't include the bells and whistles casual players want, thus alienating both the casual and competitive crowds. "Is it that not worth it to make a game enjoyable for its most dedicated players?" Gerald 4 Pres

[@Nice-hg6mq]

Lets just say that whoever was responsible for not giving the casuals all those bell and whistles is a complete moron.

[@MrZithgal]

If I could upvote you twice :( Looking at Injustice 2 and MKXL, wtf is Capcom thinking? Still no Arcade mode, bad netcode. Taking more than a year to punish rage quitters...Like wtf???

[@ColtSteele]

They're also touting how CFN is now an actual thing, some 15 months or so after release. Should we all chip in to get them a huge trophy?

[@AzuMentch36]

Not so much the "bells and whistles" but the actual content in the game. From what I heard, Street Fighter 5 still screams "DLC" and "microtransaction". From what I hear, fighting games like KOF 14 has successfully avoided that trap and delivered a great game for all fans.

[@wkingston1248]

Fatlord27 many games that are designed to be an esport from the ground up have this problem where competitve fans and players arent happy but you really didnt make the game good for casuals either. If i want to play a casual fighting im gona play injustice if i want a competitive one im going to play guilty gear. Street fighter 5 tries to apeal to all but misses most instead.

[@pablogarridosanchez]

i dont know how much does SFV has changed since 2017 (video release date) yet, SFV is the first fight title that i've got in willing to learn, not just trying to mash, and it has been satisfiying to progress, it is incredible how im being a bronze player, can hardly stand against an ultra bronze player, and then silver players just destroy me, pro player matches are a thing i just cant imagine to do yet, godlike reactions on a hit confim is something me nor my friend can still do and i feel nowdays at least skillgap between different tiers is working really well.

[@TheJP100]

one of my favorit channels, thank you for this great content! I usually dont even like fighting games but the insight in the genres players is very enlightening.

[@Monkie_]

As someone who only started watching Street Fighter religiously during the release of SFV, this video makes me sad. I had no idea how limiting this game was. Even still I find it enjoyable to watch which just makes it sadder because it could potentially be even more enjoyable :(

[@joeco9513]

watch tekken, its hype'er and harder

[@NapBlack]

Visually appealing from an audience and commentator's standpoint, game play that is both accessible yet technical and the world tour that will grow the community.

[@cammro]

don't feel bad, i got in when SF4 was just on its way out, just see it as a door into all the other games, there are nearly 20yrs of games, all with 5 whole people playing them

[@AveMcree]

RetroMonkeySage this video was made to make up for the lack of his friend infiltration not dominating. most fighters are simple these days and sfv is no acception. NRS games and Tekken have both seen a decrease in skill to pick up. especially Tekken 7! This dude clearly has beef with this company. Only Arc remains with a heavy level of execution with GG and BB. Mind you both seen a decrease too. SF3 is the highest skilled fighter made by capcom and it sold like horse shyt. when you try to please a niche market your company will fall.

[@jinkazama7587]

Ave Mcree I agree.

[@bhlorinegoreglutton3552]

i like how for Granblue Fantasy Versus, they made it more noob friendly by having simple & complex inputs for the same move.... the only thing is using the simplified input does significantly less damage than using the complex version

[@biggestbungus1295]

It also increases the move cooldown right?

[@endr0891]

I love the music he added to moment 37. It was a touch that it (because this was my first time seeing) needed

[@bistroclancy8876]

"I would never want 1 button shoryukens in Street Fighter" Street Fighter 6: 😳

[@itssheaboi]

"On things that the players dont even want." *Shows FOR GLORY on smash 4* Truer words have have never been spoken.

[@Makron5]

Omega mode was a good addition.

[@sonicgen1]

Makron5 But then that was banned in comp. play. lol

[@Bricktor]

Makron5 Yeah but competitive players don't like to play on final destination every match

[@unknowncharmander587]

Sakurai is at least trying with ultimate

[@chrismdb5686]

It'd be wonderful if Sakurai could patch in some technical depth to Ultimate... Wavedashing/landing would be easy since it's already there and it really isn't difficult to execute... Not saying it needs to be Melee 2.0, because trust me we don't need things like L-canceling and wobbling, but some technical depth would be nice.

[@RomnysGonzalez]

Shotout to Bornfree for doing the greatest interviews in the FGC

[@nikolaidrago7938]

"But I would never want one button shoryukens in street fighter.". Corea aka nostradamus

[@Matt-dp7ze]

Coming back to this video after people arguing about 1 button specials and Modern Controls in SF6

[@cooltwittertag]

crybabies

[@MrGten]

It would be nice if Capcom cared about this.

[@TruckermanJS]

They probably think that they need to care about money just to keep the game going considering how bad they fucked up the launch.

[@psd.3144]

MrGten the funny thing is sfv has most of the major elements people complained that sfiv didn't have an emphasis on or didn't implement well. so at the very least be a bit confident they will listen to you after they complete the current vision for the cam

[@Stock090]

Keep dreaming, a complete gameplay overhaul wont happen. Capcom designed the game to be this way and they wont change it too much. All they will do when the "super" version (i know there will be no updates like in 4 but im talking about the overhaul akin what SSFIV was to SFIV) is add an additional selectable super or v-skill/trigger for every character for "variation". The core game will be the same (trash hit boxes on air normals, shit range on normals, input lag because the game would be too easy to react to, shit recovery on projectiles, etc). It is a shame really but i hope SFVI will be better when it drops (if ever).

[@ViccVegaa023]

There's only so much money they can make off the FGC. This game started as something a drunk could play at a Pizza joint. Embracing Casuals means more money. It isn't bad for the Tournament scene either. It hasn't hurt Poker any. Capcom wishes they could draw as much views as those Poker championships do.

[@xavibun]

I'd rather get my ass beat at a tournament than make it to finals with a roll of the dice

[@christophercobb8008]

But, I think that you're in the minority these days. I can't speak for Street fighter these days, but I enjoy the Monster Hunter series and the games prior to monster hunter world were frickin tough! You had to have skill. With World... really no skill required. Capcom streamlined it enough to cater to a larger audience, which meant more revenue for Capcom. I hear what you and those competitive players are complaining about, but at the end of the day, Capcom isn't in the business to make video games...they're in the business to make money. Period. If a change to the formula gets more people buying their product, they'll do it. Like with Monster Hunter world selling out... Capcom made a crap ton of money on the game. That's good for them and that's what they're looking out for. It does you no good to build something that only a small portion of the population will want, you're likely to go out of business much sooner than later. That said, I agree with you on it in theory...but, I was never really good at street fighter 2, which is where I started in the video arcades, and I don't really play them much cause of that. They can be hard as all get out. But, my preferred game is Monster Hunter, if that wasn't obvious, and I lament the shift to heavily monetizing the franchise. It sucks, but it happens...maybe they'll make a version calked SF6: pro or something. Meant for the big kids that want a challenge and then the party game version for the spectators. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Unlikely, though...

[@xavibun]

@@christophercobb8008 I'm a competitive player at heart, competitive play isn't for everyone and that's okay.

[@christophercobb8008]

@@xavibun Agreed. I, too, would rather have a match be decided by whatever skill I might possess rather than some random roll of the dice. Then we're gambling and not gaming. On a side note, based on this video it appears that Super Smash Bros Ultimate and its ilk are all "party games" and have that as the basis for their play. That makes sense when I think about it: there are far too many random things that can crop up to either kill you or the other player/AI. Kind of disappointing really, but I kind of fall in the middle of the spectrum: I like the casual aspect to the game, but there's a part of me that definitely enjoys the competitive aspect. In the case of SFV, it would be nice if they had an option for both groups. It would make both parties happy without completely alienating one or the other. But, that may just be wishful thinking...

[@felipe_sousa97]

@@christophercobb8008 the first Marvel vs Capcom had exactly that, when you choose your character you had to choose "easy" or "normal" playing, the "easy" had some automatic combos and was really easier to use a special attack, while the "normal" don't had the automatic combos, I don't remember if that put this on other games to be honest.

[@paulb.437]

It's crazy how you covered the topic about "Sameness" in a older video. An also covered about how a game should be "fair", using Harrison Bergeron as a example. Then you make this video talking about how a game is closing the Gap, and making it really even almost for everyone. Its crazy how it starts to be a problem for no one can be special in their own way, and literally summaries about how "fairness" can be a problem, if everyone's mostly the "same". Great video, even though this comments on a 3 yr old video I still love it

[@kingnocho1231]

The thing I love the most about core-a is that every time I watch a video feels like it’s the first time I’m watching it

[@MikeLaBelle]

This was NEEDED!!!!

[@snehitweil1123]

Dirty Mike apply this logic to FIFA!

[@benjaminanderson9710]

No it wasn't

[@imoffendedthatyouroffended5173]

Needed for people who suck lol

[@benjaminanderson9710]

Tyler Romero he did

[@davidnarez6780]

Mike, what if EA and all other companies created their game with multiple skill level "modes". For example, make FUT how it in its current AI state as a "casual mode" and then also have the option for competitive or "hardcore mode" that is AI limited or minimized with non existent button delay? Where competitive game modes like FUT champs is auto defaulted to "hardcore mode". So If I want to play online seasons, I can choose "casual mode" or "hardcore mode" before entering a match? Essentially game companies can code "two modes" within the same game, catering to all communities, casual and competitive. This concept can be applied to all "competitive" esports games and hopefully increase skill gaps. Just my thoughts.

[@dzonatangavert1408]

Back in the old days we had a solution for this. We called it "Easy mode".

[@Entropy3ko]

In the old days easy mode was today's nightmare mode, though :D

[@Entropy3ko]

Well depends on the game. Some old school games had easy modes that were relatively "easy". Others......

[@DSan-kl2yc]

sounds like a bunch of asses expect street fighter 5 to play like street fighter 3. that's not the solution. I liked that game. But it's fine to move on.

[@dawie4853]

everybody gets a trophy now

[@Video-Games-Are-Fun]

if everybody gets a trophy, they first have to play the game to get it which means they have to first buy it which means capcom walks away with serious loot. that's what ANY developer wants. money talks. nothing else matters in the adult world. this competitive gaming thing is cute for hardcore folk but profits are ultimately what matter in commercial game development.

[@mekacrab]

10:59 That didn't age well

[@shoahkhan5670]

Him not "wanting" it was never going to drown out the screech of CA$UALS$ NEEDING IT.

[@mekacrab]

@@shoahkhan5670 I'm pretty sure no casual asked for it either

[@shoahkhan5670]

@@mekacrab "Ask" versus "NEED", and the context of the latter is strictly in the realm of those financing the games... As SF6 has no so infamously proven. Casuals, by their very nature, don't really care, and would just move on to the next, shiny thing (which they do irrespective). It's that initial sale that they needed to coax from the casual; thereafter, it being almost immaterial whether of not they stick with a game in the long run (which most do not).

[@duellinkskogdecks6089]

For a legacy game, I think it should be easy to learn but hard to master. For example, in chess, learning to move the pieces is easy. Once you know it, you will be able to play the game and learn strategies to win. But in order to become a master, you need to study a lot of opening theories, tactical patterns and end game concepts.

[@HaohmaruHL]

Worst part is, the audience which capcom targets sf5 towards to, doesn't even care about sf or cares very little and will leave quick. And the only people who suffer are long time fans and people who want to learn. Modern capcom is fucked up.

[@zachmac3824]

The funniest part is they dropped megaman for this shit.

[@SoysauceML]

This is Capcom's ideology for the past half decade. They're trying to abandon old their fanbase because they hate them, and go for newer audiences that never touched the genre before(the casual market). They will also antagonize their older fanbase while they're at it.

[@blackmagiclloyd6013]

At least Resident Evil 7 is good.

[@Stinkyremy]

I have only played like 2 matches of SFV, but tbh I never liked the extra levels of complexity in SF4 with the focus and frame perfect combo timings. I prefer SFA3 days. I guess SFV is the middle ground.

[@SirMalorak]

Agreed. I enjoyed SFIV and USFIV quite a bit, but dropped SFV faster than any other SF game I've played so far.

[@bulldozer8950]

I can imagine like 1000 years ago two chess players were playing and they were in a like medival bar, and one was like “play for a beer?” And the other guy was like “sure. But we have to get rid of the dice” and they sat for a moment and figured it out and then played. And as they were playing people gathered around and this new way became super successful. And when asked by someone their answer is “we were playing for a beer. Getting a beer should not rely on dice rolls, only skill” Edit: spelling

[@epekka]

how would chess involve dice in the first place

[@ghosty918]

@@epekka en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dice_chess Basically you roll two dice and those are the valid piece types you can move. Rol a knight and a rook, and your move MUST be one of those two. If you can't then you must pass the turn. Doubles are wild, letting you play any piece. It was a legit variant 6-900 years ago.

[@rapha2028]

@Igor Miranda uh i feel like that’s for strategy-specific things, and psychological torment on the black player because *they’re playing black “oh god sHut iT dOwn gG yOu wiN I dOn’T wAn’T tO pLay bLaCk bYe”* (this is coming from a casual chess player so i’m not very cultured in chess”

[@rapha2028]

@Igor Miranda huh

[@RamzaBeoulves]

"Anyone can be the next diego" Wow

[@stonebeard2194]

Being an avid MTG player who has traveled to many GP’s and also an avid SF fan. I loved seeing Richard Garfield in this video. If capcom took some of his core values and found the right balance for most parties involved we could see the next huge evolution in SF. Reminds me of the changes to mulligans in the last couple years vs how 90% of players feel for sfv.

[@thegreatestcommenter9566]

I've never been a big fighting game fan, but your videos are incredibly interesting. It's awesome to get a glimpse into the fighting game esports world and a little heart breaking that some devs are treating there community this way. Great video!

[@NRVNQSRR]

go with 3rd strike if youre new and try out denjin ryu, its fucking broken.

[@Bigbazz86]

About SF5, I'm an oldschool SF player, that is I played SF2 Championship Edition, Street Fighter Alpha, Alpha 2 and Alpha 3, but missed the later games.. I tried out SF5 in the online beta a few months back, this explains a lot of what I saw, essentially it felt super easy to pull off moves but I didn't really look more into it, or think anything of it. In Street Fighter on the Mega Drive/Saturn/Dreamcast (which is where I've played, up to this year) I always got my ass handed to me, I'm not good at the game, all my buddies usually kick my ass... But in SF5 online beta I was crushing souls quite handedly and actually I beat almost everyone I played for like 3 hours straight, I guess it wasn't just my imagination that the game was easier. From a casual point of view I actually had a blast (who doesn't enjoy feeling like you just became a pro), but I am also not someone who bought the game, It's terrible of them to make a game to feed my ego by removing the difficulty, at the expense of the guys who are super invested and who are going to spend the most time with the game. I prefer Street Fighter Alpha 1/2/3 anyway, they're what I tend to go back to when I want a blast of SF.

[@Nionivek]

Yeah, where are the days where it took 16 directional inputs to pull off a move? Or where you actually had to use the pause button? It is kind of the fact that Fighting games have been incredibly antagonistic towards the player that caused this trend.

[@JohnnyThousand605]

100% agree. I've never been 'great' at SF2 (I always played as Blanka on SF:SCE, so that should give you an idea how 'not-great' I am) but jumping on to a friend's SF5 made me feel like a god with Ryu. I knew they'd made it easier but I was genuinely shocked how forgiving inputs were. It just wasn't satisfying. I went home and played the MD version again and actually felt like each special move was earned and as a result, when I pulled off a well timed counter attack, it was very satisfying even against the computer. Still ultimately got my ass kicked though. XD

[@bobjohnson5557]

I'm sorry you missed out on Third Strike then had to come back to this. It's like you skipped the pinnacle of the game and came back to a farce.

[@futer5107]

here we are 6 years later with modern controls fuckin kill me

[@TypicalBlakk]

If you are bad just say that tubby

[@HellecticMojo]

Just block, dingus.

[@Agent_A_Graham]

​@@HellecticMojoBut then what? Get grabbed? Wall crush from blocking? Stunned from losing meter by blocking? Just just just. Just admit you're a Modern user.

[@HellecticMojo]

@@Agent_A_Graham tech DI you don't get stunned by losing meter, you get stunned by being DI'ed in the corner You don't even know how the base line mechanics actually work. Learn the game first before talking, dingus. Also I never use modern, so again, your ignorance is infuriatingly obvious. Never talk to anyone again.

[@pepetru]

I think the problem comes from the stockholders, you need to convince them their investments will be profitable, and increasing the player base is definitely the easiest reason to claim this game is gonna "grow" in the future.

[@Drealmers]

Street fighter 3rd strike is the most entertainment tournaments i ever watch, It's all about skills and timing

[@foro6102]

Street Fighter 3: Third Strike is still the king of fighting games to me. The skill required to play and master that game are real!

[@MonsterCondo]

Totally agreed with you pal.

[@miguelgarcia1413]

Long Live to SF 3erd strike ( since 1999 )

[@Alen725]

Yeah such skills more like its just chore to understand few things that it feels hard when you start. Its damn fighter game, most casual of casuals genre.

[@squirrel1331]

@@Alen725 you okay buddy?

[@easterislehead]

"Anyone can be the next Diego"

[@stunlord]

I cringed. "diego" LOL

[@Koompbala1]

Anyone can be the next Dora the Explora like Diego.

[@jesot]

He KEPT SAYING IT. Drove me nuts.

[@HumorousLOL]

jesot He was doing it on purpose to show that higherups have no idea who Daigo is and likely would pronounce it wrong. He pronounces his name correctly at the start of the video.

[@sergio.ballesteros]

This video resonates harder now with Street Fighter 6 and Modern Controls.

[@Amaling]

Modern controls does accessibility the right way. Only people upset at modern controls are scrubs who are upset someone with modern controls beat them instead of focusing on how they can't consistently wakeup DP. And those type of people complain about anything they can find

[@sergio.ballesteros]

@@Amalingin Granblue Fantasy Versus, yes. In Street Fighter 6, no. Why? The first was designed with modern controls as center, so they balanced the game accordingly. The second was designed with classic controls as center, so the game is balanced and designed for motion inputs, and the modern controls subvert even how certain matchups are played, like Zangief, Cammy or specially charge characters. It’s not a matter of wake-up supers, it’s a matter of Zangief no longer needing to jump or buffer the 360s behind other moves to do the SPD, making the matchup completely different. Sure, you get used to play against modern players at the end, because no modern control will make you the next Diego, but at high level it makes the breach even bigger when you remove input error from the equation. In some cases it becomes simply another game. One button super for Cammy, for example that can punish a hadoken from the other side completely of the screen is just not well balanced. I see your point, and it makes a valid argument for most complainers, but not acknowledging the rest of consequences of modern controls in SF6 is just denying reality. And my bet is that this is going to be tuned down. I would like that they redesigned the controls in the style of Granblue, which, for me, is THE BEST way modern controls are implemented.

[@V2ULTRAKill]

​@@sergio.ballesterosno Sf6 was a modern game first, in fact if you knew what you were talking about youd know it was intended to be a modern controls ONLY game at first

[@mixyous9815]

I remember watching this video before hearing about the Daigo Parry, so when the somber music to introduce the video started, I was intrigued. It did not disappoint.