Analyzing Evil: Terence Fletcher From Whiplash

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Hello everyone and welcome to the eighty-ninth episode of Analyzing Evil! Our feature villain for this video is Terence Fletcher from Whiplash. I hope you enjoy, and thanks for watching. If you have any feedback or questions feel free to let me know below!
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#Whiplash #Jazz #TerrenceFletcher

[@brennanhearn6342]

One of Terrance's biggest sins is that he's a disgrace to jazz itself. He forgets that the genre isn't about perfection. It's about freedom, and the joy of music.

[@BenHopkins1000]

Yeah. Leave perfectionism for Classical, Opera and Ballet. Every other genre should be lawless in a good way

[@illwitness]

Man, wow that's a deep analysis and conclusion to come to and you're so bang on.

[@averyplaysguitar]

And he's also bad at playing jazz

[@simple-commentator-not-rea7345]

You gotta wonder if he himself suffered some type of psychological trauma from his own teachers

[@marinaakamatsu2160]

@@BenHopkins1000 I would argue against that tho! Classical, opera, and ballet are also about freedom, but in a more subtle way to the audience. Ask any classical musician, and they'll say there's no such thing as perfect, or if it is, it's unique to the individual.

[@benwasserman8223]

What’s scary about Fletcher is how validated he must feel by the end. Andrew has fully pushed aside everyone to focus on drumming and his final solo exhibits that obsessive dedication Fletcher always wanted in a student. I wouldn’t be surprised if the final words he gave Andrew off-screen were, ironically, “Good job.”

[@NK-22]

Absolutely, I personally think even that is an excuse to justify his methods. Especially Shaun, having an unattainable self expectations brought by Fletcher himself installing those ideals.

[@b_e_thecreative]

More than likely it didn't end well for both of though. Andrew was in a dark place when he pulled this off and Fletcher isn't going to drop that grudge anytime soon because he will probably never be in a teaching role again. He might have been validated in that moment but they both are headed to terrible ends unless they change their lives around lol

[@dqreps]

Things were going downhill for the old man but he did get to survive to see his crowning achievement in the boy. That much is clear.

[@Bingo_the_Pug]

@@dqreps That’s what I got out of it too. His gestures at the very end indicated that both of them finally achieved their goals

[@skraegorn7317]

Terrence is one of the best depictions of an abuser I have ever seen. It should also be noted that Damien Chazelle has mentioned that after the film ends, Andrew Nieman most likely died a few years later depressed, alone, and overdosed on heroin just like Charlie Parker.

[@stiflers_mom]

the scariest thing for me is that the movie made you feel almost proud of Andrew at the end even though he's destroyed everything to get there

[@rustkarl]

Not for me. For me that’s his crowning pathetic moment. I feel disgust at his blowhard talk to his family, I feel frustrated by his treatment of his girlfriend and I see nothing but a pathetic twit desperate for the spotlight waltzing back into the arms of his abuser despite having EVERYTHING laid out in front him a minute ago.

[@Flash244MCGaming]

@@rustkarl everything laid out for him? He had already lost his girlfriend and got kicked from his school. He had already lost what little he had because of Fletcher, going back out was an act of defiance not wanting Fletcher to win

[@rustkarl]

@@Flash244MCGaming Everything as in yes Fletcher is indeed a petty sadist who set both him and that band up to fail to get back at him. And it wasn’t because of Fletcher that his relationships crashed and burned, that was his hubris.

[@colehastings9574]

Nah, he didn't lose everything. He gained much more, than what he always wanted. He gained recognition, a place to show his talent, and approval from his abuser, which is sad. The ironically sad ending was that even after so much he goes through he is still caught in the abusive relationship of losing and again wanting to gain the approval from his abuser. He got everything he wanted through brute force, but is it worth it is the real question!

[@_Xds_]

​@Rustymcnut why ignore the whole ending of that scene lmao 😂 fletcher sabotaging was the last hardest test he could have possibly given him. He's making andrew think about it the whole time even before the performance starts. Even mentions tht this performance in front of this crowd can make you or break you

[@doctorwhofan-if7vx]

One thing I would say is that in the "not quite my tempo" scene, Andrew was actually playing perfectly in time, even when Fletcher told him he was not. Just like in the scene where he intentionally yelled at the wrong guy who was out of tune, he is using deception to make Andrew question every move he makes and force him to work his ass off whether he was playing perfectly or not

[@osmanyousif7849]

Not to mention the fact that Mark didn’t even know if he was or not and Fletcher didn’t even give him a second to think….

[@De34thl1v3s]

No he wasn’t. Im not professional but even i heard he was dragging behind at least half if not even full second. Watch the movie back it’s audible how he was missing a beat and he was supposed to be the drummer.

[@fawnchaer]

gaslighting

[@prometheustv4980]

@@fawnchaer LOL ACTUALLY

[@MiketheNerdRanger]

That was a fascinating thing to me, because I never found a good reason as to why he was doing that.

[@sawg4607]

Fletcher in himself is an oxymoron. Expecting perfection in jazz is like expecting gentleness in football.

[@zacharyhumphries1707]

Ya ain't wrong. Having been through a music program myself I was surprised to learn that jazz is largely made up of classically trained musicians who were tired of playing classical. Classical music is all about perfection. See note, hit note, hold for specific time, rest for specific time, hit next note, etc. Its all very laid out and rigid. Its a perfectionists dream. Jazz on the other hand is all about feeling the moment, the rhythm, and improvisation. Its a near 180 from classical and its very odd that a perfectionist would be all about it. Its simply not a style built for perfection and it was never supposed to be.

[@PhantomFilmAustralia]

Unlike an orchestra, jazz does not have the entire musical road mapped out to the minutest of detail. It is anticipation and execution by an ensemble of performers on the fly. There is no perfection in music which is instinctual.

[@zacharyhumphries1707]

@@PhantomFilmAustralia Tell that to my music professor🤣. I swear it seemed like I didn't get an honest compliment for about 3 years. To be fair his critiques weren't mean-spirited in the least. They were always constructive. And (probably because they were so rare) when he did finally give me a solid it was and still is incredibly meaningful.

[@memesarekeem]

That's why the ending is so bittersweet. The protagonist goes against Fletcher's initial orders, feeling the rhythm, the needlessly obsessive practice and skill, and creates what can only be described as a masterpiece, as all Jazz should be. But, it was this solo with which the protagonist allows himself to submit to Fletcher's ideas.

[@khufu23_]

Very well said my friend… very well said

[@noahnas1587]

He's one of those villains that you could meet in real life which makes him all the worse and a lot scarier.

[@nont18411]

For example, Stanley Kubrick.

[@Melkor8249]

Like Anne Wilkes

[@thecoolestmrprogangster]

@@nont18411 John Landis

[@huzzzer6083]

One of my teachers was exactly like him. I'm surprised noone had reported her yet. Physical abuse was common.

[@mimorisenpai8540]

My Lecture act like him

[@mixkid3362]

The worst thing about Fletcher to me is how he seemingly doesn't think about his last student who committed suicide. Niemann and that students paths are identical and Fletcher has no ability to self-examine and see that he may be the reason for all this chaos.

[@ronburgundy3172]

Not to mention Andrew was caught in a car crash and he later showed no sympathy for him despite Andrew shruggint it off and still showed up at the concert.

[@doubleplusdanny]

He knows he’s the reason, but he was shielded by the school.

[@Varooooooom]

He surely knows about it, but he lies and denies his culpability by saying he died in a car crash.

[@quentinortiz4837]

He didn't make his student kill himself, that was his student's choice. He chose to do that himself

[@aimoikonen]

@@quentinortiz4837 Your comment makes absolutely no sense. Yes, the student decided to kill himself, but the decision of him commiting suicide was highly likely caused by Fletcher's abusive and demented teaching methods

[@Ryan-pz4dh]

“It’s tough love…. It’ll make you stronger… I’m just a perfectionist…” - The Abusers’ Handbook

[@lumpystilskin5367]

Yeah i quit my older brother's small business after that

[@AdderTude]

There's no such thing as tough love. You don't hurt someone intentionally with the purpose of tearing them down and call it love. That's simply abuse.

[@UnironicallyToast]

@@AdderTude thank you for being the only one on earth to admit that. I have literal -physical- ciggarette scars that everyone in my country still call an act of parental love.

[@emmabiron5016]

Abby Lee Miller

[@lostinadifferentworld2752]

That's abuse.... . it's damaging you emotionally.... You need to go easier on yourself - How to be mediocre (A comprehensive guide) Vol. II

[@bad_money]

A terrifying villain isn't one who fights you or even challenges your ideals It's one who makes you hate yourself and changes you for the worst

[@JessMess415]

Well said!

[@lennyball3885]

This comment ^^^ holy shit. 👌👌👌💯

[@rawdasalmataman7908]

This is the terrifying villan though The best kind of villan is the one who changlleges your ideals.

[@werovivero9219]

This reminded me of palpatine and anakin/ darth Vader

[@TheBfutgreg]

Which is why the Joker is a great villain, he does all 3

[@gaigeriel]

Whiplash genuinely made me more distraught and anxious than a lot of horror media. J.K. Simmons does such an amazing job at potraying such a scary person

[@damedameslame]

A movie that made me feel that way was Uncut Gems

[@RVPissBoys]

I feel like he’s only scary to those who are unable to stand up for themselves

[@imquitefondofgeckos446]

@@RVPissBoys bro shut up

[@ARC-666]

@@damedameslameAnother great film that really stresses you out.

[@Aryan-qv5qk]

@@RVPissBoys so most people

[@cyborgcuttlefish6326]

One of the most disturbing things about this movie is actually outside of the scenes for me. It's in the people that completely missed the point, and think Fletcher is nothing more than a teacher that wants the best from his students. They truly believe unrelenting abuse is fine if it works to make you good at something

[@akalichamp7030]

I think that's up to the subject of the abuse. Focusing on that last sentence, _"They truly believe unrelenting abuse is fine if it works to make you good at something",_ don't you think that should be decided on an individual basis? Andrew is an excellent instance of this, because, despite their differences, him and Fletcher both share a common goal; musical greatness. And the truth is, if Andrew didn't believe that _"unrelenting abuse is fine if it works to make you good at something",_ he could have dropped the class at any moment, found a different instructor, and so on and so forth. And yet, he stayed, and even struggled to return after multiple injuries and various other setbacks. If someone agrees with you, that the abuse isn't worth it, then I believe it should be their choice to avoid that abuse, but it wasn't like Fletcher was tracking Neiman down to his home and harassing him. I'm the field of theoretical physics, and I can tend to be somewhat obsessive over my work. In truth, I would go through everything Andrew went through and more, if it meant being one of the greats in my field; one of the pillars of physics and mathematics, alongside Einstein and the rest. Is it wrong for me to feel that way? Shouldn't it be my own choice if I want to make that sacrifice? Because in Whiplash, from beginning to end, the choice was Andrew's, and he took it.

[@cyborgcuttlefish6326]

@@akalichamp7030I do understand your sentiment but using the point that Andrew didn’t leave is like saying battered people don’t leave their spouses, so everything is fine. While there’s a shared goal in each case, the fact is that the abuse shouldn’t be present at all. Andrew stayed partially because he wanted Fletcher’s approval. He wanted to be good, but Fletcher wanted him to be the best. Nothing wrong with that. But Andrew thought that withstanding Fletcher’s abuse, pushing himself to his limits, and sacrificing everything would earn him Fletcher’s approval. Because if Fletcher is proud of him, he must be great. Eventually this did happen, but that’s the effect of an unhealthy situation. Staying in an abusive relationship is in no way healthy. It’s the wrong mindset to encourage in yourself or others. An abused party wanting to stay in an abusive relationship should not be the crux of your argument. Being among the greats is undeniably an amazing feat but it should be done in a manner that is healthy to the participating individual. A healthy amount of obsession is good, but allowing yourself to be abused or become overly obsessed with a goal is simply not good for you. At the end of the day, it’s your choice and you shouldn’t feel bad, but really think about what you’re putting yourself through. And the matter of “personal choice” really doesn’t work in arguments like this. Because the simple refute is that anyone can say that about anything. Specific choices aren’t allowed for a reason. You shouldn’t hit your partner when you’re mad. You shouldn’t experiment on unconsenting parties. You shouldn’t do hard drugs because you want to. You shouldn’t do a lot of things for very specific reasons. By the way, I hope all goes well with your studies

[@kodyk.7649]

Which is a point in the films favor that it's ambiguous enough to spark discussion, and a point against those who are unable to discern that his cruelty is still inexcusable even if it's in the pursuit of what could be considered an admirable goal

[@Mostopinionatedmanofalltime]

Agreed!

[@VultureXV]

Music students in a nutshell.

[@ryanarment5393]

Fletcher made a point of learning about his people's lives, their emotional weaknesses in order to use that to attack them with it when he gets angry. That's a pretty horrible thing for anyone to do period, but if they are in a position of trust, like being a teacher, that is inexcusable.

[@sonnyfox8407]

Like when he bullied Neiman because his mother left or when he bullied another student for their weight?

[@shadejakva9367]

It's classic abuser behavior, a manipulation tactic called "love-bombing" where they play a sympathetic ear to gain their victim's trust so they'll open up to them, then later use everything they learned about them against them to stab them where it hurts most and twist the knife after to break them to their will further.

[@MelancoliaI]

Terence tried to instill discipline in his musicians. Only little pussified Millennials and Gen Z freaks can't handle it. Remember your great-grandparents fought in World War II. Your pussified generation can barely fight "World War I can't Adult Today😭"

[@Lr1010]

@@sonnyfox8407yeah

[@DBALextras]

The fact that he lied about how Sean Casey died shows that he somewhat felt a little responsible for it but did not show any guilt

[@Alidonius6721]

Yeah, I caught that too when he died of a car accident (Fletcher's words) and we found out later he hung himself.

[@dave3934]

factual

[@buttonsmasherz53gaming85]

Analyzing evil: Eric Cartman

[@danielryan6604]

That would actualy be a good video

[@fernandosegovia8806]

I have wanted to request that since I saw his first video.

[@alexdinu589]

Damn that would be a 4 hours video

[@srami004]

Yes please

[@remingtonsteele5295]

BEST RESPONSE EVER

[@lazyquahog9385]

Fletcher was probably the only band kid that bullied the jocks instead of the other way around.

[@jorts_master69]

Fletcher was that band kid the school shooter never pointed the gun at for feat of what would happen to him

[@jbeast3385]

At the end of the movie, I don’t think Andrew came out of it even being a good performer in a jazz setting. Not only did he destroy his personal relationships, he also absolutely showboated and bought his band mates down by basically forcing his moment in the spotlight. He’s more or less doomed his own chances in the jazz scene because he showed everyone that he’s most certainly in it for personal pride and glory, just like Fletcher wanted. He’s not only destroyed his life as it is, he’s destroyed his future by showing he will absolutely sabotage everyone else to get what he wants.

[@MiketheNerdRanger]

Oof, I never thought of that. That's really deep.

[@gamerpedia1535]

Here's my opinion I mean that's how his band mates would see it, but considering the professional setting, the audience in my mind would see it as an elaborate performance. Sorta like how people do things going wrong as jokes during things like April Fool's.

[@jbeast3385]

​@@gamerpedia1535 I can understand that, and a lot of the audience in-universe would see Andrew as such, though I think it also ties back into the whole theme of self-damage in the name of glory. You can get away with ego only if the juice is worth the squeeze, and I think the movie's very deliberate that Andrew may be good, but his and Fletcher's brand of ego is incredibly damaging and off-putting. I think chief among this is Fletcher telling the story of Jo Jones throwing a cymbal at Charlie Parker and making it sound like he nearly decapitated him. In reality, Jones threw the cymbal as a playful gesture at Parker's feet. Fletcher consistently rewrites narratives to justify being a control freak who needs perfection rather than acknowledge that mistakes are endemic to true appreciation of the art, and the bonds we form with art are farm more important than the art itself.

[@nurahiyon_dyl]

Probably the most chilling little bit in the whole movie, in my opinion, is the way Terrence just casually engages in a warm conversation with our lead character at that Jazz nightclub despite their last interaction being the latter lunging at Terrence on stage at the end of a performance. It is a chilling example of how abusers tend to overlook any sort of attack on themselves for the sake of engaging in manipulative tactics with ease. I'm pretty sure our main character was disarmed by the way Terrence approached him so seemingly amiably despite there realistically being very hot air between them.

[@P9rkour90]

Psychopath indeed. Or sociopath?

[@nurahiyon_dyl]

@@P9rkour90 Not sure of the difference to be honest

[@skraegorn7317]

Also note how he made himself appear powerless and shocked when Andrew attacked him, when he could’ve absolutely fought him off. He wanted to save face in public. It’s called DARVO. Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. By making himself out to be the victims he makes himself look totally innocent.

[@nurahiyon_dyl]

@@skraegorn7317 I mean given that it was such a short moment, I feel like that could've been incidental. Terrence is smart, but I doubt he was using a tactic in the moment he got attacked while his back was turned, so much as he was just caught off guard.

[@luisapaza317]

@@nurahiyon_dyl well, also that, and considering this incident was in the medium of a performance (with social pressure and another Fletcher "face"/personality)

[@Pedro-er8px]

Fletcher is, at least to me, the embodiment of the ultra perfectionist asshole teachers who go out of their way to berate and criticize their students for any microscopic mistake or imperfection, while at the same time doing absolutely nothing to help them improve, which is literally their job

[@Delightfully_Bitchy]

I personally don't think Fletcher at any point truly thought he was helping anyone and was a needless sadist. He's like those lawful evil types that use the "law" as the *excuse* for evil actions: A sanctimonious shithead.

[@sneekybaboon4249]

Did Terence not help Fletcher to improve?

[@deletdis6173]

So every college professor ever?

[@andrewwhitfield5480]

I am a musician and teacher. If you truly love and desire to be the best at your craft a person like Fletcher will not be an obstacle in the way of that. A person like Fletcher will weed out those who are not completely dedicated to being the best.

[@Delightfully_Bitchy]

@@sneekybaboon4249 It's ambiguous, but the short answer is: Probably not. Andrew Neiman was already a talented and incredibly driven young man well before he met Fletcher, and if anything Fletcher probably drastically reduced his career lifespan before the inevitable burnout ended. All Fletcher did was prey on Neiman's worst qualities for his sadistic kicks.

[@SgtGigawattz]

Fun thought: The director noted that if there was a scene made about Adam's future, it would be that he'd die of a drug overdose at the age of 30, and alone. The ending of the movie is NOT a good one, Adam gave up his humanity to become a human drum machine and that's exactly what Fletcher wanted. However, thanks to Fletcher, this leaves no room for continuing to be human. Fletcher keeps going to find the next great. The greats he makes can't go on once they no longer are struggling to maintain Flether's demands for perfection and thus burn out, often in a more literal sense. (Suicide or other means of self-destruction)

[@ronburgundy3172]

That's my take on the ending as well despite all the abuse Andrew suffer at the hands of Fletcher he surrended to him at the end. That look he gives him at the end says "Ok. You got me! I'll give up on my life to become one of the greats" says it all. They have a toxic mentor/apprentice relationship. I dunno about you but If I ever came across the teacher who berated me and humillated me in a coffe shop I wouldn't think twice of turning the other way and walk off but Andrew chooses to approach him anyways.

[@RatPfink66]

@@ronburgundy3172 If anyone - _anyone at all_ - has the balls to push back at Terrence, the movie _does not work._ Greatness is a goal not to be interrogated or unpacked. Without that as a given, the story is just a character study.

[@Gambiff]

who's andrew?

[@redline841]

Sounds like skill issue for Adam, if he has time to OD, he has time to perfect his craft.

[@Melkor8249]

It's Andrew not adam😂

[@XanderShiller]

I had an art teacher like this in high-school. The irony was that she was blind.

[@mrniceguy7167]

How does she judge your performance if she's blind ?

[@XanderShiller]

@@mrniceguy7167 that was the elephant in the room but nobody dared to ask he'd, fearing she'd obliterate their self-esteem by spewing venomous poison.

[@charliekirkland6040]

​@@XanderShiller sounds stupid... I would just laugh. I mean, if a blind teacher is gonna be an ass about my work, why should that matter? She cannot see

[@letsreadtextbook1687]

​@@XanderShillerdo you mean like severely impaired vision but can still see up close? If she's 100% blind then the whole school is just stupid af

[@themerrymaker7144]

Did you ever flip him off?

[@cavemanzach9475]

The director said everything you need to know about Fletcher; The director said that in his mind Niemond would have died from an overdose in his thirties before actually reaching greatness. Fletcher was an abusive psycho that was not beneficial to anyone. Also another fun fact: When Fletcher was slapping Niemond he was actually spot on for the bpm that Fletcher wanted, he just didn't tell him.

[@osmanyousif7849]

So basically he’d end up like Charlie Parker? Losing his passion, losing his faith, losing his family, and losing whatever bit of his mind is left…..

[@cavemanzach9475]

@@osmanyousif7849 Yup. I held on to the fact that maybe Neimand would have overcome Fletcher's perfectionism and become someone great in his own eyes, but unfortunately the director's idea sounds much more realistic. Makes the movie much more depressing imo

[@KeithCasey973]

I think the purpose wasn’t pure cruelty, but to humble the protagonist and push him to the point of really being the best he can. I’m not in favor of his method lol but it worked. For better or worse

[@arsenal4739]

Sucks that Andrew would die of an OD before even reaching success. Fuck this was a sad movie.

[@jacobruiz97]

That means he got exactly what he wanted; a legend who was a depressed alcoholic/drug addict who sacrificed it all "in the name of jazz"

[@ghost-facedhindu4275]

Can we just take a second to admire how JK Simmons could pop veins and yell this much without having an aneurysm?

[@Jp19981]

That's just beacause he was jacked for this movie

[@nahor88]

@@Jp19981 I had literally only ever seen him as J. Jonah Jameson, so it was utterly bizarre and terrifying to be frightened of him going on crazed yelling rants, lol.

[@diahreea2022]

​@@nahor88I first saw him in Oz, so I wasn't that surprised lol

[@unr34L-]

@@diahreea2022he is amazing in Oz

[@Yayyy2332]

Being in my schools jazz band I can safely say that expecting absolute perfection doesn’t make it jazz, it makes it just reading music with cool chords. Jazz is the freedom within those chords (and sometimes out of scale/chord) so by taking out the freedom you take out the jazz.

[@Hank..]

One thing I'm really glad you mentioned was that Fletcher was not, in his ideas, entirely incorrect. An analogy I once heard likened it to putting extreme pressure on coal. Do you get diamonds? Maybe, but not always. Sometimes you just destroy the coal. Is it worth it? It depends what your values are. It shouldn't be denied that greatness can come from that pressure, as seen in men like Mozart, Michael Jackson, and Walt Disney, nor should it be denied that many people have been broken by that pressure.

[@bestmanchild4247]

What makes Fletcher scary is that he doesn’t seem to find anything wrong with his actions. He sees a student commit suicide and he doesn’t even think that he is the reason why they did it. He’s a narcissistic loser who bosses around students and doesn’t take responsibility for anything he does.

[@april3534]

I think he also has a chip on his shoulder because he never became the superstar. So he desires to love vicariously through a superstar of his own creation.

[@chieludz]

I dont think thats actually true,see there was a student in the movie who who originally he started pushing around and fucking with him,he stated out a lie to one of his student that this "student" idk his name,died in a car crash and fletcher said he was doing better than any one of you or something like that,and then it was later told on the movie where andrew had a talk to the lady about fletcher and told him that is fletcher pushing too Much or going to far from his lessons which eventually she told that the student that fletcher told us about the car crash incident was truly a lie and his student commited suicide because of his desperation of succes and depression. Not to mention,fletcher did tear up when he lied about his student "died" from a drunk car crash

[@osmanyousif7849]

“Listen to what I’m saying, you know in your heart I’M RIGHT.”

[@dinogt8477]

goku is better

[@ericsmith3495]

I wouldn't call him a loser, a narcissist, yes.

[@live4hockey2]

Whiplash is a hard movie for me to watch now because I experienced a Terrence Fletcher firsthand. I quit my job to pursue a passion in instrument making. I could have gone and gotten a job at a larger manufacturing company, but I opted for an apprenticeship with a "Master" in a small shop. I went under the impression I'd be learning from a Master, but all I ended up being was free labor. The "Master" craftsman, like Fletcher was prone to gaslighting, verbal abuse, demanded unrealistic hours that allowed for no personal life, and constantly shifted expectations that made it impossible to please him in any way. My mental and physical health deteriorated, I was constantly anxious and paranoid of making a mistake, and I began to despise the passion I had for crafting instruments. It all came to an end when the foreman of the shop threw me under the bus for something I didn't do. But the story has a happy ending because I now run my own shop and build my own instruments and am happy doing it. And due to the nature of the business I'm in, I will see him again one day at a trade show and I'll have the last laugh.

[@lolmasterjerkit1531]

Please update when you see him again, I must know the conclusion to this epic

[@matthewbain21]

I've had a boss like that too.

[@hawk992]

Yes, please conclude when you met him again. 👍

[@kevinzhu6417]

I feel you, I had a piano teacher who would slap the shit out of me and scream at me for the smallest issues or perceived slight. Gave me piano skills and anger issues so I can't say I walked away empty handed. BTW congrats on owning a shop and I hope you get to rub it in his face soon

[@ridleyformk1244]

I feel sorry for you

[@Fusilier7]

Fletcher should be a military drill instructor, not a music teacher, especially jazz, which is suppose to be fun and liberating, the musicians have a love for music. If Fletcher wants lockstep coordinated movements and cadences, with all of the vanity of perfection, the military would be suitable for his temperament and ego.

[@jurtra9090]

Not even a drill sergeant should be as cruel as him. In the end, being a DS should ended up with the recruits respecting you for being a competent teacher

[@diggareesworld5668]

I like to think that fletchers backstory was actually a drill instructor who went to far and decided to go into jazz

[@Jenna_Talia]

@@jurtra9090 I've even heard from some people that apparently drill sergeants aren't all that bad. They know to pull back if they're about to break you, and they won't ever physically hit you. Whether that's true or was only made true up until recently, or is just an outright lie, remains to be seen. Never been in the military and never hope to be but I do know that if you're wanting somebody to be a fighter, you don't instill flinching and emotional breakdowns in them as responses to fear. Senseless screaming and battery isn't how you make a soldier, it's how you make a coward.

[@TotalTech2.]

12:33 Terrance did not care about Shawn. What he cared about was the loss of music on the world. He is also upset at the possibility put in his face that maybe he pushed him too hard. And again, it isn't that he feels bad about the death it's just his ego can't handle the possibility that he may have been wrong.

[@ultratankie]

I'm also convinced that when he got the call the day before (when he's distraught in his office and tells Andrew abruptly to leave), the thing that actually upset him wasn't "Oh my god I drove a student to suicide" or even "Oh my god Sean is dead," but rather "Oh fuck, is this going to hurt my position at Schaffer?"

[@telecarlster]

The positive thing we got from whiplash is that a lot of music teachers started questioning themselves and their methods.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

That's a REALLY good thing and I'm glad for it!

[@RatPfink66]

Maybe not in music. Tradition, authority, and results are the values in higher music education. In my experience new teaching methods usually don't make it out of academic papers.

[@tiffanypersaud3518]

WONDERFUL!

[@djacks424]

Where'd you go to music college/school? Because that didn't happen with or around me...

[@telecarlster]

@@djacks424 in Chile it was kinda common to see abuse of power, specially with teachers that had a classical background. But after that i saw a lot of teacher, mainly young ones that started to question those methods.

[@GiveMeYourFACE9089]

I think his character forces the question, "How much are you willing to suffer in order to achieve greatness?"

[@visceraeyes525]

more like in order to achieve fletchers personal standards of what greatness is? even though he has no idea about music itself , let alone jazz, not to mention he cant play piano himself...although i guess its easy for non-musicians to believe fletcher is some kind of musical genius.

[@thomasjenks659]

@@visceraeyes525 I mean the entire point of the story was suppose to be the assumption he is, at least as a conductor. For those of us less musically trained, it's easier to suspend our belief. I do hear that point a lot from musicians though, and I suppose it's a bit like watching a movie whose book you've read. Regardless, he clearly a sociopath who manipulates people into a sense of Stockholm syndrome and the ending is horrifying (which is why I think Nieman's dad just stands there with his mouth agape).

[@barnacleboi2595]

@@visceraeyes525 Imagine taking a movie completely literally instead of enjoying the message and entertainment that it actually is.

[@amirbrandon5011]

Greatness is the willingness to die

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@visceraeyes525 LOL What? Are you completely out of it? Fletcher DOES know alot about music and has a IMMENSE idea and knowledge of it, ESPECIALLY Jazz music, that's how he become a teacher to begin with. Just stop with your nonsense as you have absolutely NO idea on what you're saying here as Fletcher DOES know alot about music and ALOT about Jazz entirely so.

[@mackielunkey2205]

What I loved about Whiplash is how the writer builds up how Fletcher abuses his students. 1) First off he gets the student’s personal information (like how he gets Andrew to talk about how his mom left his dad). 2) He uses said information to belittle them (where he compares a student coming too early in the song to the sexual intercourse he has with his boyfriend). 3) Yelling in order to feed off their insecurities like he did with Metz. Which then leads to number 4, where we see him utilize number 2 and 3 with Andrew, which breaks him down to a pulp.

[@ultratankie]

I always thought (and still think) the comments about other players' "boyfriends" was just regular old homophobic taunting, but the thing about Fletcher is there's a non-zero chance that's actually true information he got a student to share with him and then held over his head. We've seen him do it and we know he's a liar, so it's impossible to say for sure.

[@KevRyanCG]

I love that in the end of this film we don't ultimately see good triumph over evil. Even with Andrew breaking away from Terence, having him get fired and not falling victim to his final act of revenge, Terrence can still feel as if he's the victor because his methods have managed to create a "great" in his eyes. It's the unfortunate eventuality to all manipulative people's schemes, in that all their past actions ultimately get justified because of some concocted result that they have achieved. Which makes Terrence certainly the kind of villain that any one of us could encounter in our lives.

[@daniellavaladez7820]

This 100%!!!

[@shanellekeller9741]

I think the other reason he picks only men for his band is because they are less-likely to tell when they are being abused out of fear of appearing weak. Perfect victims.

[@blairsmith3199]

That is an incredible point. It made me think of a chef I worked under (I've been a short order cook for years) who only ever hired young boys or men, any females that tried to work with him he would quickly bully or bdger out of the job. I never really thought or realised why he did this and now I do.

[@someguy9496]

eh, I thought that bit of the video was reaching

[@JessMess415]

Lololol oh boy @Some Guy is a great username for someone doubting misogynistic undertones in a yt video haaaaa, didn’t mean that in a rude way it just made me laugh

[@zakazany1945]

I thought that maybe he was homosexual

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@zakazany1945 lol not even close. NOTHING about fletcher is a "hOmOsEXuaL" AT ALL, that's just you BADLY reaching there, like WOW that was so wrong for you to say. Just stop with that as Fletcher is FAR from being assumed as a "hoMosExUAL" in ANY way considering his massive abuse towards men in the film, you made non sense there.

[@StratBlackFishRa]

People like Terence go on and on about the virtues of tough love, yet they constantly forget the love part. Instead they just focus on being cruel (usually as demanded by their emotions). As a side, some people can't be pushed by tough love; some people fight back, some people break down, some walk away. I, like many others, can not and will not believe/accept that someone being a douche is them genuinely trying to help.

[@jbeast3385]

I think of Pai Mei from Kill Bill of someone who embodies something Fletcher claims to be. A teacher who demands perfection, but he actually serves as a teacher first and foremost. Pai Mei is a tough and extremely harsh teacher, but he allows Beatrix opportunities to turn back, actually corrects her, and even shows small mercies because he can tell she’s actually committed to learning. With Fletcher, it’s absolutely rigged from the start that you will never, ever please him. The moment the football gets kicked, he will shift the goalposts and always say you missed. Also, Pai Mei is also subject to the repercussions of “tough love”. He dies ignominiously because a student he was teaching poisoned him and he didn’t bother actually analyzing her learning to know it. Being a harsh instructor means someone needs to actually feel instructed, or they’ll fight back for you being harsh.

[@kylegonewild]

Tough love is about not letting your affection dampen what needs to be done in a given situation. It's one thing to tell someone you're not paying their bail when they do something illegal, it's another entirely to treat them like an unredeemable outcast and failure. I'm definitely one of those fight back types. Getting in my face and yelling is a surefire way to have your eardrums throb when I yell back.

[@bluecollarlit]

Totally agree.

[@tiffanypersaud3518]

@@kylegonewild same.

[@Mostopinionatedmanofalltime]

Agreed! Vince Lombardi didn’t abuse his players like that.😊

[@juliamay8580]

According to Fletcher everybody is worthless unless you're an instrument to fulfil HIS dream. That's not tough love, that's being a sociopath.

[@DaekoTan]

Fletcher would make a great CEO

[@theviolater9231]

You can’t be the best if your not pushed, fletcher was looking for someone that had it in them to be pushed

[@BH-2023]

The hardest part about watching Whiplash for me is being able to relate to Andrew so much... My HS swim coaches were just as bad as Fletcher

[@docc19]

Yeah some swim coaches are crazy. had a few crazy ones myself.

[@Jenna_Talia]

In my experience it's chefs that are drill seargeant wannabes. Idk why, I've never met one who doesn't look like they have an entire branch wedged up their ass.

[@premiersportingkc3443]

I had a professor like this in college. Incredibly intelligent, incredibly demanding, and incredibly cruel. The crazy thing is, I learned a tremendous amount from him, and I'm glad I had him as a my professor. He improved my abilities in ways none of my other professors were able to, precisely because he pushed his students beyond their limits. That being said, there's a reason why I never stayed in touch with him after I graduated, but I did stay in touch with all my other professors. People like him live miserable lives, and they inevitably drag everyone else down in their misery

[@LoveRocketsable]

Bro that really wasn’t that crazy. To be the best u need that shit

[@hawk992]

@@LoveRocketsable no bro, that's not true.

[@wephilips6651]

Obviously that’s you’re lived experience so I can’t really argue that you believe that but As a teacher myself I don’t agree that being cruel=only way to push students beyond limits. I don’t even agree with being demanding=being cruel. With my bright students I can be incredibly demanding and critical of the WORK but I am never cruel and try my best ti to never be critical of the PERSON. With this I have had great results and students come back and thank me. My best teachers when I was a child were similar and my teaching mentor is one of the kindest and most popular and well liked teachers in school, who recently won a national competition for his teaching/quality of the students work I feel like this belief that yes it’s bad but hey it get results is complete opposite of the message of the movie, as well as all the current literature on psychology and pedagogy and I really hope this harmful counterproductive myth will stop being propagated in the future. If a teacher has to result to cruelty to motivate and push students then they are a bad and lazy teacher.

[@RatPfink66]

@@erdelegy People use platitudes to get thru the things in life that they can't afford to question or doubt. It's a simplifying instinct. Maybe even a skill, tho it's not one i exactly respect.

[@randomjunkohyeah1]

“Pushing people beyond their limits” is *not* an inherently good teaching strategy. Time and time again research has shown that personal growth and development comes from going _slightly_ outside one’s comfort zone on a regular basis. You cannot do this effectively without understanding and giving due respect to those limits, which is the absolute antithesis of “cruelty”.

[@gwildor8543]

You’d be surprised how many music teachers at the university level are like this. I’ve be chewed up and spit out by some great instructors. Is what it is I always thought.

[@oneproudbrowncoat]

I really wouldn't. It's a personality inherent to the academic world (particularly the liberal arts).

[@x-rex7236]

Forget about Teachers, many Parants also acts like Fletcher especially in more Easten parts of the world

[@kikiohearts]

Oh jeeze... wow.... my high school band teacher was similar in alot of aspects even down to throwing stands (not at students but... alot of throwing) and chewing out and belittling and comparing. But our school was a school known for its prestigious band program with famous alumni.... so... I mean. I guess.

[@TheAlbinoBaskerville]

@@kikiohearts Same experience; but was a 3rd-5th grade teacher.

[@realsgtstupid]

My middle school band teacher acted like that, to a certain extent. Never saw him throw a chair at anyone. But as a kid I just thought he was an asshole, so I'd mess up on purpose, chew gum, etc, just out of spite. I eventually dropped out of band because i couldnt stand him anymore. Years later watching Whiplash really gave me a newfound respect for him and his dedication to his craft.

[@luminousbanjo]

I remember seeing this with my brother (who is a musician) and his takeaway at the end was "you've just gotta practice." Which terrified me! Because at the end, Andrew has basically rejected everyone he cares about in exchange for someone who only wants to use him. I'm so glad I've reached the point where I'd rather be unsuccessful and happy than great and a cruel, miserable person. But there absolutely was a time when I would have believed otherwise and that scares me too.

[@reservoirfrogs2177]

I’ve had to yell at people to get them to understand why this is clearly a terrible situation and a bad ending for the character. Shows how effective this manipulation is, and how terrible people’s mindsets are (especially in America)

[@eyevenear]

The ending of the movie is the definition of full circle: the 2 characters hate each other so much that the hate itself nullifies and they basically start their relationship from scratch but, this time, living on resonant wavelenghts.

[@nonyodambiz]

It's also worth noting that Charlie Parker developed a heroin addiction, most likely due to his intense trauma at the hands of his first humiliation when performing live and failing, so much so that the band leader literally through a cymbal at him. He died at age 35 by heroin overdose. What Terrence fails to realize is that even greatness comes at a price, when it's not balanced out with failure being treated less as a weakness and more as a natural part of any great musician. This is why I think the movie is way more cynical in nature, because now, after the events of the film, I feel that Andrew may develop even worse habits due to adopting his aggressive perfectionism. There's more to being one of the greats than just being instrumentally gifted. But Terrence doesn't see that.

[@ronburgundy3172]

Well I'd rather live a productive happy ordinary life than dying from overdose all alone.

[@s.g.7572]

It's not even fair to say that Bird paid for his greatness by dying alone and addicted. Almost certainly, there was a way for him to be great without resorting to the self-abuse that cut SHORT his greatness. Fletcher's techniques would destroy the next Bird, not create them.

[@xanthippus3190]

I would rather be ashes than dust

[@blacknapalm2131]

*They weren't all snowflakes in those days. You don't become a drug addict because of 'trauma' playing onstage. He became a drug addict because it was available and part of the Jazz culture and because he enjoyed it, its as simple as that*

[@gavinking-smith1656]

@@blacknapalm2131 Using the term "snowflakes" unironically is cringe worthy.

[@LoadedGunn47]

He’s a narcissistic sadist, he’ll never see the perfection he says he wants to bring out in people because they’re always gonna be beneath him. The punishment *is* the point, guised by a supposed pursuit of perfection that he uses to defuse moral and legal consequences. What an amazing villain and performance, the fact he’s able to make a debate about someone who (to me) is so obviously nefarious in their intentions is masterful.

[@RatPfink66]

It goes to show the degree to which normal people will accept and submit to narcissistic behavior if it is for a purpose. They readily identify it with the purpose. It must elicit separate reactions in normies at the same time: one evoking a myth of practicality ("this is just what it takes"); the other connecting with a romantic myth of the tortured, or torturing, artist. The combination must be almost irresistible. No wonder so many who choose another path are dismissed as non-hackers whose talent wasn't worth pursuing. People prefer to cling to the myths.

[@DrHouseMusic]

Well put

[@Flash244MCGaming]

Is it really hard to believe that Fletcher fully bought into his own methods thinking he could create a great musician? Why do you think he was “obviously nefarious”

[@RatPfink66]

@@Flash244MCGaming he too identified the means completely with the end.

[@s.g.7572]

The other thing that we can learn from Shaun (Sean?) Casey is that Fletcher's methods don't actually work. As in, they don't create the next jazz great, they just create a broken shell of a human who can only mechanically crank out impressive jazz solos. The Joe Jones/Charlie Parker story illustrates harsh criticism and even possible assault that ended up motivating him to become Bird, but at no point is it implied that Parker underwent prolonged emotional abuse, torment and manipulation, which is what Fletcher does. It's more akin to cult behaviour than anything. Parker would never have become Bird if Fletcher had taught him to play jazz, because Fletcher doesn't care about passion, creativity or fun. Fletcher cares about power.

[@MrThebeast115]

what I find really sad is how there's no joy in music when you're in Fletcher's band. No comradery or teamwork, just an extremely toxic environment brought upon by Fletcher himself. They might be a great band, but they're all so miserable at the end of the day.

[@crzvm1lk]

it doesent matter if your great

[@alexdinu589]

I've been waiting a lot for this character analysis he left such an impression some consider him a teacher who pushes people students to their limits and others as a bully who is sadistic just for the sake of it personaly I think he îs both, he clearly takes some pleasure in bullying his students but driven to make them succeeed

[@crazychase98]

Reminds me of a drill sargent. I don't think he's that bad.

[@ranga1cat]

His desire to see his students succeed it still just an extension of himself. If they are successful people want to know who their teacher was. Self serving bully

[@HallsteinI]

What you're overlooking is the fact that Terence is intrinsically in it for himself, which combined with his method of teaching makes him a disastrously bad teacher because he's willing to go to any lengths to accomplish his goal. It's never about his students, it's about him tearing countless students down to reshape them, rather than find ways to build others up. To me the moral of the story is that even though he accomplished what he wanted, the price was too great. It came at the cost of his job, his students' well being and ultimately caused the death of another human being. In a lot of ways Terence achieves the polar opposite of what any teacher hopes to accomplish through their work. Everything that he ever touches is forever stained by his character.

[@inthemindofavillain]

@@HallsteinI Well said, bullying and scarring hundreds of students just for one possible rockstar is too high a price.

[@522op41]

The thing is though, it's all for HIS glorification. He couldn't care less who he destroys in the process. It's selfishness under the guise that it's for his students

[@dontdiscriminatehateeveryo9263]

Analyzing evil: Kevin from We Need to Talk About Kevin. Ezra Miller seems to have become that character IRL.

[@KevRyanCG]

AH! I forgot it was the same actor. That guy really fell off in recent years.

[@andrewmussio]

This character is a very common character that we see a lot in society but it is often tough to identify because people who exhibit these traits make others go through a roller coaster of emotions that can be described as confusing or tiring. It's like these people know the exact frequencies to keep others in a loop of trauma.

[@jimoo3751]

Definitely one of my favourite movies of all time. It’s incredible how Whiplash fits for any competitive and high performance demanding environment. I was a competitive swimmer until my teens, and drop out due to exhaustion and loss of motivation, in a simple explanation. Later I discovered i had (and still have) depression and anxiety disorders, and it all began in that time. When i saw fletcher in the Metz scene, my heart rushed and i felt like vomiting, cuz that’s just the way my coach behaved with my team. I saw myself in Andrew and felt the grief of seeing him falling down to madness as he absorbed Fletcher’s ideology. I almost became like him, but my hate for myself was bigger than my hate for my now bad performance, so I eventually dropped out, thinking i wasn’t enough anymore to be on the team. I believed every word my coach said, and i practiced every day to please him and to be worth of his “concern”. He messed up with former top swimmers (like me) and with new talents, like some of my friends. Manipulation and excessive pressure can do a lot of damage to your mind, and it will probably last for the rest of your life. This movie is legendary and should be analysed more times.

[@docc19]

I swam until getting burnt out as well. It was fun when I was a kid and thats what it was all about but once I got into college swimming it just became too much. Only reason I kept up with it was because of scholarship money.

[@jwnj9716]

It's like the musical version of Sergeant Hartman scenes in Full Metal Jacket.

[@ntmfalloutproductions4713]

even tho sergeant hartmann was probably more fair than him

[@lapislazuli5035]

And they're both about dehumanizing their victims. Hartmann wanted his soldiers to be remorseless killers, and Fletcher wanted Andrew to throw his entire life into music at the expense of everything else.

[@jwnj9716]

@@lapislazuli5035 I admire your comment. Hell, I like you. YOU OWE ME FOR ONE JELLY DONUT!!!

[@bettercallkeylo]

@@jwnj9716 What the hell

[@RomeodaBIackRose]

@@bettercallkeylo it’s a line from the movie, full metal jacket

[@afrinaut3094]

Andrew succeeded, at least in my eyes, in-spite of Fletcher’s cruelty & sadism not because it. There is pushing people & then there is abusing them.

[@plebisMaximus]

That's a great way to say it. Terrence never did him any favours, he was determined to be a good drummer before he became Fletcher's prey.

[@rednova2212]

@@plebisMaximus There's the catch however. This is a 'Chicken or the Egg' question, but in different form. On the one hand, you have the Chicken in the form of Fletcher trying to give rise to greatness in his own way of teaching, and the Egg being Andrew who became great. We already know that our chicken does what it does and for what reason, but the Egg is the different variable. Without the chicken, would the egg have hatched into 'Andrews Success' as we have seen it? Or was it the chickens actions that *caused* that greatness to manifest and 'Hatch' in the first place? We don't know, because the writer has left us with no alternative movie that has Andrew never learning under Fletcher. Jumping to those conclusions is all pure speculation. Though this does bring me to bear the question of a thought experiment: If you could think of a mentor or teaching figure in your life that held some position of Authority or power over you and picture them never being in your life... How would your thinking process differ? What did you learn from them? What possible negatives or positives did they leave you with that you would be without due to their absence? I'm genuinely curious to hear any answers to this.

[@a_tarasevich]

I think it's both of the factors: it becomes really difficoult to recognize the limits of Fletcher's actions effects on Andrew and to compare them to Andrew's personal ambition. I would say both factors cooperate to achieve what Andrew would (I guess) call success: there's obviously a strong base given by ambition and passion, but I feel like most of the changes that we see in Andrew's development are strongly driven by Fletcher's mf behaviour. His passion and ambition are what gave him the endurance, Fletcher gave the induction to action (in a despicable way)

[@skraegorn7317]

I don’t know that Andrew really succeeded though. Sure, he might have played a great drum solo but he’s still an empty broken shell of a man who’s cut himself off from everyone who loves him to satisfy a sadistic tyrant who will never be pleased (and who literally told him that nobody will every be good enough for him).

[@pwabd2784]

Excactly. Terrance didn't teach him anything. There was no real instruction, no lessons, nothing. He showed up and practiced that that's it.

[@ElTigre12024]

There’s one intersecting scene showing just how manipulative Fletcher is. When Andrew loses Carl’s folder, Carl freaks out because he fears Fletcher will chew him out for it. Instead, Fletcher calmly tells him it’s his fault just as we all suspect he’s going to rip into him.

[@devlinorsomething854]

i never realised how truly evil fletcher is until the end

[@ringkunmori]

The entire movie is the most triumphant fall to grace story I've ever seen. You know that Andrew will be doomed to the tragic fate of the musicians before him, yet the film is able to empathize with his self destructive passion that in the end you root for him and Fletcher.

[@lorentzcoffin4957]

Fall from grace? More like the ascension of Icarus. The fall isn’t shown.

[@reecewarrenmarshall3760]

Fletcher and Neiman have a very abusive father son like dynamic where Fletcher does what many abusive parents do and view their children to be extensions of themselves that achieve the dream of the parents rather than seeing them as their own people. It wouldn’t be surprising that Fletcher had a similar mentor during 60s or 70s where this style of teaching was more acceptable.

[@ronburgundy3172]

@Greg Elchert Also it's sad to see Andrew feels contempt for his real father and shows him no respect but he craves Fletcher's approval. In esence, by the end of the film Fletcher becomes Andrew's puppet master which is why I think the ending is depressing. Sure he gets the last laught but Flethcer won in the end. He has Andrew under his grisp now.

[@yerossyle]

A lot of Jazz is about improv. The fact that Terence is treating it like classical music just goes to show that he himself failed to grasp what it is to be a Jazz musician.

[@udopadrik9971]

Genres do tend to become their opposites. I'm not very informed about professional jazz, but I do suspect it would be something like in this movie, just as the "fantasy" literary genre is usually about traditional good-vs-evil stories where different nations are replaced with elves, orcs and gnomes, not about something weird like "imagination".

[@gideondias4736]

Just watched 'Whiplash' yesterday JK Simmons was incredible

[@darkninjafirefox]

This character is so genuinely chilling to watch. I remember the first time I saw this movie and the scene when he gets into a wreck only to run the rest of the way so as not to miss the concert always stuck with me.

[@heisenberg4406]

Fletcher is one of the most horrifying characters that isn’t from a horror movie

[@shadejakva9367]

I believe a lot of it is because of how real he is. He's the kind of evil that can be found just about anywhere in the real world and many of us have likely encountered at some point in our lives: An abusive authority figure. He can be found not just in a teacher or other mentor, but a parent or a boss at work, dangling praise and rewards just out of reach like a carrot on a stick while readily dishing out fury and punishment in an instant for *anything* they deem a mistake in their eyes, until you are so terrified of incurring their wrath again that you no longer strive to meet their expectations for your own betterment, but rather out of fear of what they'll do to you if you don't.

[@adamseeker2956]

That's the appeal of the everyman villain.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@adamseeker2956 Yep. Realistic evil is the worst kind, honestly

[@Waywind420]

J.K Simmons was elite in this role, what a well acted and well written character.

[@virtuouspyromaniac4467]

Both Andrew and Fletcher are perfectionists but despite that they still were at a great conflict with one another

[@Mistashiba]

I'd love to see you cover the villain from Oldboy. He's such an incredibly weird and horrible villain with an unusual motivation that we don't really learn unitl the end. Would make for a compelling watch.

[@kylehandlon1641]

yes that would be a great episode

[@TheHeartlessFour]

Love that movie so much.

[@river7874]

Original Oldboy, not the bastardized version that Spike Lee put out. Love him as a director but the remake was so baaaaad...

[@seamussmyth1928]

@@river7874 ye should check out the yms review of both

[@jinxedjosie5934]

I love that movie, it’s such a roller coaster of a film. And of course that hallway scene is one of my favorite fight scenes of anything, ever

[@the50blessings88]

I no shit had a teacher JUST like fletcher and he was the school band director. I don’t know if I should say his name but this guy would throw chairs around, scream, cuss us out, and hunt us down around the school just to yell at you. I was in 8th grade and this guy had no shame behaving like that in front of little kids. He stayed with the school so long because he was really good drinking buddies with one of the counselors who always vouched for him. I played bass in his band class and I never learned to read notes and when I told him I’m only used to tabs he really said “there’s this magic box that you have at home with a keyboard and you figure it out.” Like dude your job is to teach me how to read and play music. So when I couldn’t play a song right he threw the biggest tantrum as a grown 50+ year old man. He screamed in my face at the top of his lungs, called me a little bastard, and just had me sweep his class for the rest of the semester. Sadly I wasn’t the only one he did this to if not his whole class. Everyone had the lowest morale and anxiety just even being in there. Thankfully parents caught wind of what he was doing, rallied up, and got him fired. Didn’t touch my bass for 8 years because of him.

[@brysendedios9038]

That sounds terrifying.

[@the50blessings88]

@@brysendedios9038 it was. He’s an alcoholic too from what I heard from his landlords who I ironically worked for. He almost burnt down the building because he got black out drunk and forgot he left the stove on cooking spaghetti. He ended up burning his kitchen at like 3 am and had to pay for the damages. The landlords kids were also his students with me in the class and we became good friends since then

[@monkeybro162]

Keep playing bass bro!

[@the50blessings88]

@@monkeybro162 still am!

[@user-gw9hk1ox7t]

my band teacher wasn’t nearly as bad but he also had a tantrum about my mouthpiece. it wasn’t even dirty, it was just stained for some reason. he was yelling at me and i was looking at my lap trying crying. everyone was watching. i can’t believe educators think it’s ok to do this to their students, or that anyone thinks this is ok

[@user-jw5zu7sl3b]

The actors and actresses in this movie did such an amazing job, especially miles I feel like nobody talks about how great his acting was in this movie.

[@TheWaffleEdits]

What I love about this movie is there is no happy ending He’s lost everything and everyone. All he has left is his drumming. So he has to be perfect at it, just like Fletcher.

[@MasterFatness]

When my mother was in middle school, she had a music teacher much like Fletcher, who regularly slapped students in the neck unexpectedly, if he disagreed with their efforts. Also, if he didn't like the way they played the piano, he'd smack down the piano lid on their fingers. This was just a few of many violent methods of punishment. Mind you, this was in the late 70's. Same thing happened to him that happened to Fletcher; some students got together and told enough harrowing stories of his abuse to the school board, and he was fired without any legal reprimands. But obviously, she never forgot this sadistic psychopath. Warned me, if anything even remotely similar to this ever happened to me, that I'd tell her or my father right away. Thankfully, the late 90's and early 00's were quite different times, but you can be absolutely certain that this sort of sadistic abuse is still going on in some schools to this very day.

[@VauItDweIIah]

Thank you for that story Master Fatness

[@josejimenez896]

I remember when I watched this when I was really young and just started college. My young naivete combined with my culture generally pushing people to just "work harder", had me at the end of the movie the first time I watched it thinking this; "wow, I guess he really is a great teacher. Sure, maybe he was a bit harsh on his students but that's what it takes to be great right?" It wasn't until much later that I learned how damaging 'the grind' when taken this far can be. That's when I understood the cautionary tale this movie explores. It can seem so appealing on a surface level, particularly if you're also ambitious, that you want to ignore the abuse.

[@emperorblack3409]

Just watched this movie last night, and my god, I was blown away. Might be my favorite movie of all time. I never thought a movie about music would ever hit that rank.

[@GlassThirdEye]

I feel like Fletcher represents one's will and drive to master your craft and the moral of the story is work hard to reach your goals but not at the expense of your own mental health and push everyone in your life away.

[@chonkyseal7164]

I loved that movie, this analysis was brilliant, Simmons' acting was bone chilling, he was terrifying yet charismatic at the same time, a great vilain. While i'm at it, i'll leave a few suggestions for vilains i'd love to see your take on : -Keyser Söze from The Usual Suspects. -Bondrewd from Made in Abyss. -Red John from Mentalist.

[@mikeywazowski7577]

The mentalist is fucking awesome

[@dallassteel625]

Keyser Soze would be a great one. Also, Raymond “Red” Reddington from “The Blacklist” would be a good Analyzing Evil episode.

[@nicokrasnow1851]

There's already a Keyser Söze one

[@reybladen3068]

Bondrewd was cool. Can't tell if he genuinely loves his children or he just acting.

[@plebisMaximus]

For some people, a "tough love" approach is probably a pretty good approach. It's how I learn best, participation trophies and "good job"s never really did me any favours, just makes me feel like I don't have to put in any effort to get validation and thus cheapens said validation. But like everything else, it has to come in moderation. Slapping a student and driving another to suicide isn't tough love, that's just sadism and not how you foster greatness. If anything, that's how you scare off anyone who could've been great with the right guidance. Terrence Fletcher is a complete psychopath and his motivations are entirely self-serving, it's not about jazz, it's about having him named as the guy who taught the next big jazz star.

[@JessMess415]

I think what makes a great teacher is being able to see what each student needs and meeting them there. So with someone who needs ‘tough love’ the teacher will put on the pressure that makes you thrive, while the person next to them will need more encouragement and coaxing to achieve their highest potential. Great teachers will know the value of having a spectrum of teaching styles.

[@marlom7882]

Exactly. Even when I was a kid I always felt participation awards as patronizing. Like “I didn’t wanna be awarded for trying I wanted to win”. If I realized I had the drive to win when I was little I could’ve fostered it and have been something great by now

[@s.g.7572]

Tough love, as the name implies, is equal parts toughness and equal parts love. Hold people responsible for their mistakes, but appreciate them when they improve and/or put in effort. It's a fine line to walk, and in my experience most people who describe themselves as practitioners of tough love vastly overdo the toughness until it's just abuse. Really, tough love is just like any decent relationship, and isn't really warranting of its own name.

[@kylegonewild]

Slapping a student isn't just sadism, it's a crime. Terrence is an unhinged criminal who assaults and physically batters young, impressionable people because of his inadequacy complex. It's not just that he misses when Jazz was a cultural staple, you can tell by his mannerisms he wanted to *BE* the next great, but incapable of accomplishing that and failing to do so by later age convinces his narcissism that being the guy who trained a great is just as good. He hasn't even developed his own teaching method, he just steals his ideas about teaching from the stories of others and applies them to his petulant screaming and abuse.

[@Fabi_87]

Yeah the best coach I ever had competing when I was younger was big on tough love. But he knew how to implement it properly and make it motivate people which it can do when done properly. Especially when the coach/teacher not only is truly dedicated but actually cares about the students/athletes reaching their full potential and has their trust. Those are the best mentors to have the type that is stern but fair so when you actually get praise from them it actually means something and on the other hand if you f up they dont have too yell or even say anything because you respect them so much their disappointment is punishment enough. Sadly those are coaches/teachers exeptionally rare especially in the upper echelon in any feild, too much ego and abuse of power is more often the norm.

[@theafroduck5967]

I had a golf coach who was exactly like this back when I used to be in highschool. I had always LOVED golf as it was something my grandfather, father and I could all do together. It was our main was of spending time together when I was growing up. I am not by any means exceptional at golf, but I can remember how excited I was to get into highschool and try out for golf. Then I remember showing up and just how awful things got after that.. As I said I am not exceptional, but that coach demanded perfection out of every person who tried to be on that team. Being as it was highschool he couldn't just kick us off unless you had done something bad school wise, bad grades, ect. That being said he was always looking for ways to get kids off of the team.. He was a cruel cruel coach who never should've been allowed to coach developing kids. He constantly made me feel awful about how I did something for fun, told me that I was no good, told me that my time would be better spent anywhere else, and just things of that nature.. The mental strain also of wanting to do well in school so you wouldn't get kicked out of practice (which in retrospect was pretty helpful), but fashioning it as a threat is just not right. What was the worst part is that he was a charismatic man. You WANTED his validation.. He was a manipulative person. There wasn't a single kid on that team who practically doesn't hate the game golf now because of him. People who were better than me. All because they didn't live up to the expectations of what he wanted of them. Sure it might be a simple game, but to take something that kids might love and wanted to try and to make them never want to try it again is just wrong. I am happy to say that I still actively play with my father today as my grandfather has passed away. The best part is I actually still enjoy the game. I can tell you one thing for certain though and it is that I will never forgive that coach for how he treated all of us. Don't be a Fletcher.

[@techzone1552]

Good lord man, sorry you had to go through that. That coach sounds like he lives a miserable life.

[@hifellowhumans8393]

This reinforces the thought that Intelligence/skill and compassion must come together. We were humans first before we became artists.

[@lightunicorn1371]

This is one I am legitimately excited about because I still think about this movie all the time.

[@rhetttimbers2186]

One of the many characters I've been anxiously waiting for you to cover. Haven't watched the analysis yet, but this film is one of my all-time favorites. Simmons' and Tellers' portrayals of Fletcher and Neiman were both equally amazing in my opinion. Edit: Something that I really loved about whiplash was the use of Neiman alternates and how they both act as mirrors for who and what Neiman could be. Ryan Flannery (I believe that was his name), at the beginning of the movie, is portrayed as the top guy in Neimans and maybe even a target of Neiman's jealousy. He's confident, strong, and more talented than Neiman (at first), everyone speaks highly of him and looks up to him, and he's even got a girlfriend. These are all things that Neiman is severely lacking. The one thing though that Neiman has that he doesn't is an intense burning desire to be great. And Neiman eventually gets all of those and effectively surpasses Ryan. Then we have Mr. Gay pride of the upper west side himself Tanner, who I believe to be a good tool in the use of foreshadowing who Neiman would eventually become. He's loud, obnoxious, abrasive, arrogant, and just an all-around asshole. He represents the decaying psyche of Neiman throughout the story as well as his later fall into Fletchers' band. Both men stand firmly at the top finally after everything, only to make one mistake ( Tanner losing the folder, and Neiman forgetting his drumsticks) and lose it all to someone else who they believe is straight-up garbage compared to them. Honestly, Tanner and Ryan are perfect examples of how to use one-dimensional characters to make your story so much more rich and enthralling than it may already be.

[@lenig3012]

the irony is that jazz is meant to be creative and enjoyed and messy, which is everything that Fletcher isn't. Mistakes in jazz can be a good thing.

[@p4t091]

Just hearing about this guy gives me chills, from all the villains I ever seen Fletcher is the one who scares me the most

[@noahmclaughlin7921]

JK Simmons definitely knows how to make an intimidating villain. If I could recommend anyone, I think a video on Homelander from the Boys would be a very interesting one. He’s a terrifying villain that manages to be complex while not sacrificing how evil he is. Also maybe Ramses from the Prince of Egypt and the Lich from Adventure Time

[@LandaverdeFrancisco]

Homelander would be cool. So much power and yet so much insecurity.

[@jacksefton3505]

Omni man who JK plays would also be good!

[@Kriegter]

Have a theory that the behaviour of Terence himself is the result of the same manipulation from a former mentor

[@RatPfink66]

Cruelty is a proud tradition. It is because proud people are usually the ones who are cruel.

[@ctdvargas]

I had a band teacher that was a sociopath like Fletcher. I didnt know it then, but as an adult, its clear as day...,

[@LooBiggerthanyoo]

I think this is your best vid. Since so many don't see this character as evil

[@A_real_Ha_So]

I've always thought, "Bricktop" from "Snatch" and, "Angel Eyes" from "has The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" have always been overlooked antagonists

[@BLADESLADE357]

El indio as well.

[@sangaman2007]

I literally just watched a review of this villain on a KZbin channel called "In the mind of a villain." Both you guys gave excellent perspectives

[@Bingo_the_Pug]

He wasn’t really a villain, more like an antagonist. He wasn’t diabolical in his methods, just an asshole

[@breeeegs]

@@Bingo_the_Pug Disagree. One of his students was driven to commit suicide because of his abuse.

[@inthemindofavillain]

Hello!

[@somedumbspammer4408]

​@@breeeegsThe director himself said that, in the future, Andrew would eventually kill himself too, because of his loneliness and depression, likely from spending all his time drumming and not being with his family

[@pramusetyakanca1552]

Man, people with this mindset are bound to face repercussions sooner or later, and Fletcher definitely falls into this category.

[@xdnuhba4164]

Fletcher replacing his wired earbuds with wireless headphones: *Not quite my audio*

[@jasongreathouse6661]

If obsession with perfection a good one could be Nina Sayers from "Black Swan." Yes she is the protagonist but the stress and pressure of ballet drives her down a dark path of self destruction turning her into the antagonist of her own story. And another that must is Nina Myers from "24." A villain who like stated by Jack Bauer, is the worst kind of traitor, a traitor who believe in nothing who will kill for one reason, herself.

[@Crimson28]

Omni-Man: “Are you going to join the Viltrum Empire or are you going TO BE ON MY FUCKING TIME!!!”

[@KovertCorteX]

man i watched so many videos on this topic but you still managed to bring things to mind that no one else did. bravo

[@wong4u203]

I think what makes Terrence Fletcher so scary is that his baldness may even overwhelm professor Xavier, and he has telepathy!

[@ChicaLocaGB]

This was an excellent analysis, he truly is a great villain. For anyone who hasn't seen it, this film is a masterpiece.

[@djdeadbeat4380]

Watched this movie for the first time at the beginning of this year and it was excellent. Anyone who’s had an abusive or perfectionist boss or coach knows firsthand how much people like Fletcher put fear in you. I don’t use the term “anxiety” lightly, but that’s exactly what these types of people instill in the people they’re teaching/in charge of.

[@zholopshis2793]

Analyzing evil: Roland Bishop (From Juice: 1992)

[@orig1990vintoy]

Terrence would really fit in a law school faculty 🤣

[@shadejakva9367]

Thanks for doing this one, I really enjoyed it! Terrance, to me, is so scary as a villain because he's an evil many people have likely faced somewhere in their lives: an abusive authority figure who rules over those in his charge through fear rather then admiration. People like him can also be found in other parts of life: a parent, a boss at work, or even a lover or spouse who demands lofty but vague expectations and punishes you harshly when you fail to, and you only do so out of fear of incurring their wrath again. Furthermore, through manipulation, Fletcher, like so many abusers, makes Andrew and the others revolve their lives around him. His students who were once friends now betray one-another for his favor(or to avoid his rage), Andrew neglects his girlfriend because he sees her as a distraction from meeting Fletcher's standards, and he becomes cold and distant to his father whom Fletcher has also turned him against by calling him a loser and planting that "Do you want to end up like HIM?" seed in Andrew's head, especially when Andrew's noticeably more successful relatives are already openly acknowledged for their talent in sports during a dinner. While Fletcher is certainly right that an overly soft approach leads to mediocrity as then someone who is shown to be truly talented is not being driven to test and surpass their limits to find their true potential, a degree of nurture is also required to embolden that person and make them feel the effort of going past their limits is worth it.

[@damianwootten]

Met several people like Fletcher while I was in service. They’re pretty set in their idea of what makes a good soldier/sailor. However there is a cost to that and have seen the mental, physical, and emotional damage it has done to fellow servicemen. Seen several suicides of people who couldn’t take such a lifestyle in a job you can’t quit. I understand that we have to have a professional military, but at what cost?

[@ZedanB]

I actually experienced both sides of high school social activities: For my first two years, I was an athlete. For the other two, I was a musician. Honestly, being a musician was a more fun experience, but in college, its very much like this film: instructors can and will be cruel, belittling, and manipulative, though it was more prominent for me in choir than jazz band.

[@Anchor-Supreme]

I think one of the scariest things about Fletcher is the fact that he doesn’t care a single bit about the student themselves, just the potential that they might represent. When the trumpet player “dies in a car crash” and Fletcher cries in front of his band, I don’t think it’s out of grief for the individual, but the progress that Fletcher lost when his pupil is gone. I truly believe one of Fletcher’s biggest reasons to make a player like Andrew is to validate his entire philosophy behind teaching and abuse: that enough trauma creates the perfect musician.

[@carterbergland9264]

Fletcher is one of my favorite villains in any movie. I’ve never watched any piece of media that made me so angry at a fictional character the way that he did. He’s such a dreadful piece of garbage and I loved the performance

[@eddieguerrerofantasy]

I was waiting for you to analyze this character. One of the best performances of Jk Simmons. That kind of teacher that every students fears

[@buia499]

Absolutely amazing video for a project that I'm doing in school. Thanks!

[@FruitFlyKilla]

Thanks for doing this man, been requesting it for a long time as I'm sure many others were too. Fletcher is such an interesting character.