What WHIPLASH Is Really About

[@sujayshridhar2079]

Can we appreciate how 1000% perfect that cast of this movie is? JKS and Miles Teller were born to play these roles.

[@jsong8282]

Yesh

[@SoulSonder26]

Well, you definitely could say that about those two, and imo you'd be correct. However, i still feel strongly that the role jks was born to pay is still J. Jonah Jameson. I have still, never seen someone make a crazy over the top comic book character seem so REAL! One of my all time favorite performances

[@marioben7]

@@SoulSonder26 why not both

[@DJansons23]

JKS litteraly used to study music and has a bachelor arts degree in music, while Miles Teller used to play drums as a kid. Yes. This really is a perfect casting, best thing is, the director only found out about it after showing them the script.

[@Calcifernus]

They really were

[@guslegarcon]

i just noticed that at the dinner with family Andrew aspires to be remembered by people who never met him. But at the dinner date with Nicole he points out the song playing at the shop and knows who the drumer is, but Nicole pays no mind. This shows to me that legacy is not actually promised at all.

[@guslegarcon]

The song is literally used as background music.

[@cookechris28]

And it's great because that indicates his level of insecurity and arrogance as a person, he has a huge chip on his shoulder. Why does that drummer's legacy matter, even though Nicole doesn't care? Because HE cares, HE matters, whereas she's "just" the girl he asked on a date to a pizza joint. When he finally realizes how hard he fucked-up, calling her and asking her out again and treating her like somewhat more of a person, the table's totally flipped. Andrew's just the crazy drummer guy she dated for a little while.

[@ProWrestlingPsychology101]

​@cookechris28 It's exactly like being a small fish in a big pond or a big fish in a small pond, right? He wants to be great to be great - it doesn't matter what other people believe or if they just hear music as opposed to true talented art. He just wants to prove he's a big fish - it doesn't matter what size the pond. Which is weird. Because he values status above money - similar to his dad's values as a teacher. Teachers typically want to make an impact on their students' lives - regardless of how many they help or how much they make. So maybe if Fletcher never became his teacher, he'd become more like his dad. Which shows how toxic and influential Fletchers' teaching style is - besides the other guys s-cide.

[@Tinxxxxyyy2222]

@@guslegarcon

[@guslegarcon]

@@Tinxxxxyyy2222 yes?

[@tylervelasquez5639]

I never noticed his father's reaction at the end as being concerned his sons soul died...it's an amazing detail. I could reason that this movie was about an abusive person in power. At the end it was tragic that you see the abused, Andrew, be caught in a cycle of allowing the abuse to continue. The Dad is an extraordinary character. I didn't pay enough attention to his importance in the small interaction.

[@iannape3112]

I always thought his fathers face was in shock from how fast he was playing

[@drowzee2559]

not in the least, his fathers face is a reaction to how vastly incredible his child is. And how he never gave him the nourishment or encouragement that he properly needed. You can see it at the end when Andrew and his professor share a glace, that's a look of acceptance and praise. He finally achieved the height that he knew he could. @@iannape3112

[@AvatarBowler]

I’ve heard that the script itself literally lends credence to this. You can probably look it up somewhere and see the part about his dad looking through the door.

[@gamecokben]

Really? You missed that? Wow.

[@moxieloka]

His dad is the reason he is strong

[@yusefendure]

Whiplash is a classic. You're dead on about it being a cautionary tale

[@varundwivedi3197]

Agreed, it's about obsession, and people don't really like it, they think the obsessed one are crazy, but only the person going through it knows that it means everything to them, the balance means bullshit. Obsession is for the greats. " the next charlie parker will never be discouraged". WORLD AINT SOFT.

[@disappointmentpotato9408]

I agree with you, kind of. I do think that it is a happy ending because he stands up to Flethcer and soments himself as a great drummer without needing the help of Fletcher but yeah it's overall a bad ending

[@yusefendure]

@@disappointmentpotato9408 There is definitely no happy ending here. Andrew becomes more isolated, narcissistic, and driven by fame than one comfortable in his own skin. You could argue that the ending was Andrew's fantasy of what should have happened.

[@yongyea4147]

You are so wrong. Human/human relationships end in staleness. Human/music relationships end in ecstasy! Look at all of us great preformers! We can afford a divorce. We couldn't afford it if we didn't make millions!

[@yusefendure]

@@yongyea4147 There is no such thing as 'human/music relationships.' The relations of human beings in the productive process includes all of the arts. Musicians can inspire many, but they can divide just as many. In Whiplash, the relationship between the teacher and student was poisonous. Negative reinforcement breeds resistance, and that is not ecstasy

[@CarlosRodriguez-bh2ey]

In your 20s and early 30s you tend to fall for this trap cause you're trying to create a path for yourself in a world that seems already crowded with amazing, more experienced people. Some people don't think about the future at all and just live in the present, whereas others forget to live in the present cause they're so worried about the future. I think both ends of the spectrum can make you miserable.

[@OneTakeVids]

Agreed 💯 I think you can definitely go too far in either direction

[@darkthirty8134]

Well said

[@Alex06CoSonic]

This hits close to home. I concur.

[@TheCompleteMental]

Why the former

[@hampusnyhlen2961]

I was this from ages 18-22

[@phregh9676]

I think it's important to mention that Fletcher tells him that prolific jazz scouts are in the audience at the last performance. Whether truthful or not, this puts the performance in Andrew's mind as his 'big shot', increasing the stakes even more.

[@Ronin.97]

There were definitely big names there and he was trying to ruin Andrew's potential future career on that night in front of those big names.

[@urmanascrewed]

I thought that is why Andrew returned to the stage, because he wanted to perform for legit jazz enthusiasts without Fletcher's restraint.

[@urmanascrewed]

@@Ronin.97 What I didn't understand is that I thought Andrew didn't care anymore as he had given up on drumming. Maybe Fletcher didn't know that though and still wanted to tormet Andrew with that pressure.

[@cookechris28]

@@urmanascrewed That's a part of it true, once Andrew starts playing. That total 100% "fuck you, embarass me in front of everybody, you made this bed you're gonna LIE in it." energy. Fletcher relies on fear as his last-resort for manipulation, his trump card. If you're not afraid of him, he's powerless.

[@objectionablycurious]

@@Ronin.97 bad take, he's putting him under absolute pressure to see if he can manage.

[@hombreg1]

Man, as someone who attempted to unsubscribe from life after failing to reach the standards I set for myself... This film hit hard. Ambition doesn't have to be self destructive, but we are often seduced by greatness and light ourselves on fire in order to fuel our hopes and dreams.

[@Revealingstorm.]

Ambition and greatness are tools used by manipulative monsters to hurt people

[@AllWeNeededWas]

glad you're still here bro❤️

[@jakestan1185]

Glad you’re still alive I think about it sometimes but yeah

[@VivaVenezuelaa]

stay safe bro ppl love you

[@raider360X_sot]

Stop unsubbing chat

[@jimtroeltsch5998]

You could also look at the scene where Fletcher tortures the three drummers after the news of his former student's suicide, because he wants to weed out any one who might do the same thing as his former student. In that scene, he is trying to go as hard as possible to force them to leave if they can't take it, to try and weed out anyone else who might later crack under the pressure and hurt themselves. That's what I always thought.

[@Jaspertine]

23:20 I'll say it, Fletcher is 100% wrong in his philosophy. He's just making excuses for terrorizing people. On top of which, his definition of greatness is painfully narrow-minded. His is a world where musicians don't actually make art, they don't break boundaries or change the game, they just play the same old songs and obsess over who was more perfect at it. That's not art, it's show business.

[@birdiewolf3497]

Thank you!!!! Like we are all supposed to be impressed by people who just recreate the work of actual greatness. The people that created these things weren't obsessing in this way. They were too busy being creative. This guy sucked all the life out of music. Crying about never having the next Charlie Parker. As if he could ever create that while boxing people into this demented idea of music. Fletcher pushed people in the wrong direction. He made people suffer for nothing.

[@IsaacV2001]

I know wishing violence on Fletcher wasn’t the point. But maaan, when Neiman tackled him, I wish the directors would’ve given us viewers a few solid blows to Fletcher’s face before Andrew was restrained.

[@TheCompleteMental]

Realistically the students would let it happen

[@Icetea-2000]

Probably because his arms were broken

[@Icetea-2000]

@@TheCompleteMentalThen they know they could never show themselves to Fletcher again

[@seanmager1168]

@@TheCompleteMental I DEFINITELY SO DO agree. as the way fletcher treated Andrew, Was JUST SICK and TERRIBLE and HORRIBLE and there's NO Excuse for it. I understand the whole idea of wanting to push people to go beyond their limits, But you wanna Do that, Inspire and support them. Dont bully them, dont threaten them, dont be SO Terribly abusive to them, as THAT IS JUST PLAIN WRONG and CRUEL. There's a BIG differance between teaching and Just plain bullying and abusing. and there's a STRONG Line separating the 2 of them.

[@MaryMartinez-xt5eb]

As a drummer I could relate to this film. This is probably the only film that takes drumming and drummers seriously. This could also apply to any co-dependant and abusive relationship. Yearning for validation and being manipulated and gaslighted into doing anything just for the hope of pleasing the abuser. Abusers will pull you away from everyone who might save you from the abuser. The leaving then going back is also part of the unhealthy dynamic. The film is less about music and greatness and more about the need for validation and belonging at any cost and the willingness to debase and demean oneself for the scant hope that you will win the approval of others.

[@christopherknowles]

Imagine not wanting to be good.

[@allthelittleworms]

​@@christopherknowlestotally missed the point of the comment

[@christopherknowles]

@@allthelittleworms a lot of the time people will give themselves any excuse they can come up with to not have to do the things required to be great.

[@burgerboss1016]

@@christopherknowles You're delusional and I hope you break free one day and become happy. You're loved.

[@christopherknowles]

@@burgerboss1016 glib platitudes are empty and won’t keep you warm.

[@karelknightmare6712]

Whiplash does not seem to ask if greatness is worth it. It's more like a cautionary tale about confusing being harsh with being demanding. Greatness does not require harshness, it requires commitment, perseverance, passion and more so inspiration. The movie shows the trap of underestimating the importance of kind support and meaningful art. It also shows the ego-rooted part of it, the sterile obsession, celebrating other's failures instead of pushing the art further together, drying every other aspects of life that are supposed to enrich it. Fletcher and Andrew are interpretative performers, it raises the missing creative part of this approach. It's quite ironic that the true moment of magic happens when Andrew disobbeys Fletcher's lead and starts playing Caravane. Both things maybe suggesting that the artist should get closer to a composer, not a soldier.

[@DeadpoolX9]

The way i see it is like Fletcher is like a really harsh leveling farm. If you follow his method you WILL get results in your technical ability but breaking away from him is difficult but when you do you'll find your ability to meaningfully express yourself is beyond what you thought before. You just have to remember yourself in the music.

[@bilbo_gamers6417]

finally somebody actually understands the message of this movie!!

[@bilbo_gamers6417]

​@@DeadpoolX9 Fletcher has technical ability and will hold you to a high standard, that is true, but the issue is that he also does a bunch of stupid unnecessary crap that only furthers his own ego and discourages his students, under the guise of improving them.

[@elmalifico3708]

To be honest this reminded me of an episode of The Twilight Zone where this guy is obsessed with pool and one night gets to play a legendary pool player who descends from heaven. The pool player talks about being obsessed with pool and being great and how much sacrifice is required. The legendary player says “yes, that important, but it’s also important to live life, I had a girlfriend, I saw a movie, I went to the beach and on certain occasions I swam in it too”. In the end the pool player wins and he becomes a legendary player, but as where he ends up in heaven descending from time to time to play other players, he’s basically in hell.

[@GraveEnd]

This movie gave me more anxiety than most horror movies I constantly was worried about fletcher flipping out at Andrew I constantly got worried he’d mess up bc I knew what was coming

[@hunterjab06]

The crazy thing is is that the director of whiplash said that Andrew would die in his thirties of drug overdose just like his dad told him

[@lemoncholly]

JK Rowling also said hogwarts kids shit on the floor. Sometimes you have to let the work exist outside the artist's opinions.

[@blah204]

Sounds like the director coping with the fact that he’s a failed drummer

[@ammonite0257]

@@blah204yeah alright. Maybe we didn’t watch the same movie but you can literally see Andrew following the same path as those who have taken their own lives.

[@ammonite0257]

@@lemonchollyyou’re comparing a retarded piece of lore by a hack author to someone who actually made a reasonable take on the aftermath of the film. If you can’t tell the difference then I don’t know what I can do for you

[@blah204]

@@ammonite0257 I understand that but the character literally expressed that desire at the dinner table. He is willing to sacrifice everything, including his life, to pursue greatness

[@sionlee6515]

Awesome acting by Bezos and Zuckerberg

[@pianoraves]

What if Zucc is actually a great actor in another universe

[@TauraiEAW]

Never looked at it that way. Absolutely underrated comment!

[@EditorialJoe]

Pin this comment, OP

[@thvomniman]

😂😂i was thinking the same throughout the whole movie

[@ScottShedd123]

😂

[@younkinjames8571]

Here's the thing. The next Charlie Parker wouldn't need "motivated" and especially in this manner. He chased his CP away a long time ago.

[@derek96720]

Yup. Any true great would practice their craft relentlessly, for love of the craft, and wouldn't need verbal abuse to motivate them like this.

[@67psychout]

Exactly

[@kidnamedsolid3547]

never shorten charlie parker

[@OldWorldFlag1]

I watched this movie recently for the third or fourth time recently and I could be wrong but I think when Fletcher nods and “smiles” he’s actually mouthing the words “good job.” As if either in recognition or as one final jab at Andrew.

[@MrOSUrocker]

Dude, I remember seeing this movie shortly after it came out, while it is such an amazing film, it literally triggered some like PTSD in me that I had from a super abusive high school basketball coach who did very similar shit to what Fletcher does to Andrew in this movie... Some really heavy stuff that is hard to ever let go of, and for sure a cautionary tale. To this day I still can't rewatch this movie just from how it made me feel the first time

[@allyrhodes9302]

I had the same exact feeling but because of my dad. I still don’t think i can rewatch this movie because of how real it felt. Its crazy to me that some people watch this movie and feel the ending is triumphant.

[@lightlng]

@@allyrhodes9302 Some people are deranged and believe you have to mentally torture people in order for them to reach greatness. These people are fucking idiots but that goes without saying.

[@Ronin.97]

Sounds like the guy saw great potential in his players and was misunderstood by his peers like Fletcher.

[@klaasmetsers9364]

​@allyrhodes9302 it may not be a happy ending, but Andrew's disobedience in the end feels like a win, even though he may be losing the battle

[@cavalfou]

​@allyrhodes9302 From this toxic relationship... out of so much torments and sacrifices, the magic moment created from that musical performance. Very fair to me, nothing is bad or good

[@thinkingoutloud9126]

Fletcher is particularly disgusted. He is so vile about making the best in stead of becoming the best himself. He’s taking his self loathing out on others. He knows he doesn’t have what it takes so he’s crushing others, proving nobody else has what it takes either. Even if he did find the next Charlie Parker, he’d be sure to destroy them. He’s a sick man.

[@razorbackroar]

Nah he is one of the best

[@bilbobaggins4562]

@@razorbackroarif you were in Andrew’s shoes how would you feel if this man berated and abused you like that? Would you cry? Would be upset? I know I would lol

[@ThomasWake1]

He’s the type of sadist that if he had a prodigy child he would ruin any sense of passion or growth bc of his own vicarious need for winning

[@favoritodiavolo]

Can’t believe it took me almost 9 years to watch this movie and it’s on my top 3 favorite movies of all time. I was sweating by the end and smiling along with the characters. As a musician it really moved me. Excellent film!

[@maxrice6990]

Same dude! Lol, and I'm a musician I've been meaning to watch this movie forever but just never did

[@Rawxnama98]

Man, you’re not the only one I’ve been watching 5 to 10 second clip of this, and they do like a meme and this year I just now find out about this literally after watching season two of invincible

[@BillyBob-ln4qk]

I’ve always thought that the fathers expression at the end was out of awe bc he hadn’t realized how incredible his son really was at playing the drums

[@udopadrik9971]

I think yours is as true as the reading in this video. Yes, nowadays it is popular to consider "Whiplash" to be about what the creator of this video claims it to be about, about abuse, but I don't think it would've been as good a movie if that were the full picture. It is much more about the ambiguity, the sacrifices to get to do something at a high level, but yes, the potential for self-destruction is a part of it. Andrew still was the protagonist driven by his own ambitions, not some groomed victim, and success is relative. If the only guide to the meaning of the movie is Andrew's father's then it would be a pretty conformist movie, advocating the abandonment of your own dreams for others' sake. I don't think it was that.

[@ivanthehighman177]

16:54 THANK YOU. I am so glad you said that because I do not see fletcher as a freaking man who takes pleasure in what he does, I see it as him using it as a outlet to let out his pain.

[@Xairos84]

Another interesting bit here is that before this scene, Andrew was asked to be there at 6am. We'll before they started. And In the hallway scene beforehand, Fletcher disarmed Andrew by telling him that 'he's here for a reason'.

[@isaiahayers1550]

Which scene? Be where at 6am?

[@Xairos84]

@@isaiahayers1550 at the rehearsal hall, I think.

[@setumox]

Funny how he was seeking Fletcher's approval the entire movie and only received at the end when he decided didn't want it anymore by leading. In the end, he only needed to prove to himself that he was great, and all Fletcher did was acknowledged that he is. Awesome movie filled with ambiguity and irony.

[@bailysawyer804]

21:31 I’ve watched this movie several times and the crash scene is one of the most interesting to me. When Neiman drops his drumstick instead of immediately being told to get out, Fletcher gives him another chance to get it together and even has a look of concern instead of pure anger. Only after Neiman cannot recover and the overall performance is effected that Fletcher calmly tells him he’s done. It does show, however mildly, that Fletcher does care about his students that have that level of drive.

[@aliensoup2420]

One should never aspire to be the best - aspire only to be YOUR best. The rest will work itself out in time. Glory is a vain pursuit. The love of the art and joy of performance is its own reward, and where greatness emerges.

[@gtassa01]

Mediocre thinking in action

[@Zora-jr2lk]

​@@gtassa01 The real mediocrity mindset Is believe that having someone who is violent, make you feel miserable and doesn't care about you, will make you good at something

[@R1gBoN3Gaming]

​@@gtassa01Yet here we are

[@SchnitzelCFC]

I loved this movie. It felt visceral and real. I feel like what you take home from the movie depends on how you see the world. Some of my friends were critical of Fletchers treatment of Andrew whereas others say him as a critical part of Andrews obsession with drumming perfection. It's open to interpretation really.

[@isaiahayers1550]

It's sad that anyone could interpret Fletcher as a critical part of anything. There's no place for a person like that in the world. Even for the rare person who is able to respond to that treatment in a way that makes them more skilled at their craft, it's nowhere near worth it. Not a person on the planet would make it through that kind of behavior and actually be satisfied with their level of success, even if it's the highest level possible.

[@TheReeelBradPitt]

@@isaiahayers1550 damian chazelle describes the end as a sour triumph, meant to create debate. It leans towards being a cautionary tale, because that's the director's stance on the topic, and it bleeds into the material, but he did leave it up for debate. Either it's tragic, or tragic but necessary for achieving greatness. But he never meant for it to be a taken as a clear cut happy ending

[@Ronin.97]

Fletcher accepting Andrew into his class is the catalyst the made Andrew want to become the greatest and break up with his girlfriend to focus full time on drumming. If Fletcher simply denied him how differently would things have turned out?@@isaiahayers1550

[@udopadrik9971]

​@@isaiahayers1550 I think SchnitzelCFC's comment is very valid. It depends on the way you see the world. While some amount of comfort, relaxation is probably an important part of the path to any goal, if one wants to achieve more ambitious goals, then they probably need to be willing to search discomfort, situations and relationships that to some would perhaps seem abusive, unbearable, inhuman. It was pretty clear in the movie that Andrew was the protagonist, pursuing greatness despite the discouragement of his family and peers. He wasn't some victim that was groomed or forced into this by his parents. It might have been a story of self-destruction, it was ambiguous about that, but it wasn't a story of a predator and his victim, although nowadays everybody wants to pretend they care about abuse victims and injustices on social media and can analyze everything to be about "power dynamics". When it comes to this movie it would be a much more boring movie had it simply been about "OMG there are abusive people in the world". Fletcher was the instrument on Andrew's journey. Weather it was a worthwhile journey is much more the question. The sad truth about life is extraordinary goals tend to take extraordinary sacrifices, although some people like to live with rose-tinted glasses in a fantasy world where you think you could achieve anything from the comfort of your living room. It is about the worldview of the individual. You seem fuming and resentful about Fletcher's character, while I would have much more violent reflexes to someone trying to comfort me into insignificance and depression, whispering "you are so great" to my ear and giving me ice cream whenever I actually feel like getting out of my bed. Now that's what I'd call toxic. Usually nothing is as clear cut as that, but as the OP said, it's about how you see the world.

[@TheCompleteMental]

Comfort is necessary to create greatness. Objectively. Someone without comfort is someone who cannot coherantly function.

[@50iraqidinar]

I didn't think Andrew was "insecurely lashing out" and his family wasn't simply well-intentioned but naively unfamiliar with the world of jazz. I read that scene very differently. The family were being passive-aggressive, smug, and dismissive of his passion-in that particularly self-righteous way that the conventionally-minded often are of artists and intellectuals-and he rightly stood up for himself.

[@melanoc3tusii205]

“Conventionally-minded” Is this the sneering asshole artist version of the Yudkowskian “midwit”?

[@amqliav]

Putting this in perspective, Whiplash is fuel for people who want to be the absolute best. Probably why I love this movie so much. I am a drummer myself, and all I want is to be better than anything. When I watched this movie for the first time, I was tranced and amazed by the cinematic elements of the movie. I was in love with the idea of success in grief. I still continue to consider this movie as my inspiration, which may be too much. But honestly, it gave me such a great outlook on how some people can really be pushed and shoved into a corner. Which they never leave, because it’s a secluded space of isolation. To stay in a place such as that, they have no where else to go.

[@juris9546]

Why you commenting

[@juskim]

This movie reminded me of my Master's Professor who was very abusive to his students. A lot of my peers dropped out but if you survived, you came out as one of the top grad researcher (with a side of PTSD here and there). I was young and dumb thinking I would come out of it without any repercussion. Still have nightmares to this day of those years...

[@captindo]

“ It’s, it’s about family” That’s right Jay!

[@-MrFozzy-]

I understood that reference

[@nathanjs55]

Forgot which channel I was on for a second

[@tomasinacovell4293]

Well "Andrew" never had to starve, he was just another of the upper middle class had all the trimmings.

[@TomEyeTheSFMguy]

You don't turn your back on family.

[@joey-schmoey]

Whiplash is a story about everyone who has forgotten why they like what they do, and becoming an empty shell in the process. Staying true to yourself and your principles is the key to success.

[@douglaspurcell7506]

as a classically trained drummer and a huge Miles Teller fan even before this came out, this movie hit me hard. I remember times in my life when I had that same ambition. I would sit in my room practicing until I couldn't physically hold the sticks anymore. This movie will always have a special place I my heart. and I think anyone whose ever really tried to be the best at ANYTHING would have a hard time not falling in love with it. one of the greats

[@DrJ-hx7wv]

What's a "classically trained drummer?" That doesn't make any sense, unless you're a classical percussionist.

[@douglaspurcell7506]

@@DrJ-hx7wv bro why did you come in here to argue semantics? 🤣 all I meant by "classically trained" was that I learned to read music and was taught in a classroom environment by people who were taught how to teach people. jeezus. you sound like a reddit mod

[@Gamerjman19]

I felt the ending signified that he had overcame Fletcher. Andrew wanted his approval so much, and the ultimate moment of slight from Fletcher came and he was done. But then he decided his worth and knew he could prove what he actually was. Andrew defied Fletchers plan and took initiative. He ignored and didn't care of Fletcher's reaction, he just pushed back. Even though Fletcher does in the end approve of him, it doesn't matter anymore, he won.

[@RED-my9hl]

this is the dumbest analysis of the ending of this movie i have ever seen. Andrew doesnt win, fletcher does. Fletchers intention was always to make the next Charlie Parker, and he did at the expense of Andrew.

[@isaidoun]

I disagree, because in the end you see him look towards fletcher and smile, almost justifying the abuse he got throughout the movie. I think at the start he was rebelling, but once he started listening to fletcher again (when he slowed and sped up when fletcher told him to), he was sucked right back into the abusive world

[@Xairos84]

​@@RED-my9hlyup he threw his drums away but he couldn't find a new high in life. So he went back.

[@surgegamer]

I had the opportunity to play in a relatively elite saxophone ensemble, and the ear of Fletcher and knowing the minutia of a tune so well to immediately axe someone for failing their pre-show rehearsal shook me enough to remember exactly why I didn't choose musical performance/theory as my career. Perfection is necessary, and if you can't cut it, be gone. Andrew's story through the ordeal is truly relatable for any musician in a high pressure audition/performance environment. Whiplash is a great precautionary tale for any music student of what can happen in the wrong environment.

[@benkyung4894]

a friend pointed out the in the scene where we see only fletcher's eyes during andrews solo, fletcher is saying "good job"

[@JozialOfficial]

Which would make it even more tragic than if he just became the next greatest drummer because he would be putting in that work just to feel less motivated and possibly end up with nothing. No family, no fame, no money and being forgotten about. Everything could have been utterly pointless. Don’t get me wrong, I would love to know if that’s what he actually said but part of me likes the mystery. It’s a different ending depending on how you interpret it. Either fletcher finally found the diamond in the rough or was still on the road to revenge and committed himself to completing ruining Neymans life.

[@TheTonyMcD]

Whiplash really was such an incredible movie. Extremely underrated.

[@someguy_matt]

I’ve always held the belief that if someone has to verbally/physically/mentally abuse someone to get the best out of them you’re not a great conductor. Same goes for teachers, coaches, and directors. If Fletcher was truly great at what he does he could elevate the talent he teaches to amazing heights without abusing them.

[@jordonjones3423]

Disagree , there is a reason special forces instructors break you down

[@georgegaryfallos5394]

​@@jordonjones3423 This is not the same as special forces training though...There are no lives at stake, neither a dangerous situations that requires nearly unbreakeable resolve.

[@scottweaverphotovideo]

All one has to do is look at the greatest musical artists in the classical music world and their relationships with their teachers to see that extremes are never employed or called for. Great teachers support, analyze, suggest improvements, and constructively criticize. They NEVER abuse.

[@omensoffate]

Source: trust me bro

[@poindextertunes]

what a sweeping generalization

[@marlonlo9661]

You forget, they also push their students. The question is how far?

[@muffinstuffin6]

Which is weird, because I think that's exactly what you see in the solo at the end: Fletcher being that teacher and allowing him to improvise. Okay, maybe not ALLOWING (Andrew is DEMANDING), but watching end enjoying, and finally giving subtle suggestions on where to go next. It's a brilliant scene. Whole movie is ambiguity at it's finest: I don't care what the director has to say about it.

[@spellmasterak2855]

0:25 I interpret this movie and what Fletcher said at the end about wanting to mentor the main character into being a prodigy, that Fletcher had approved of and chosen the main character when he first meets him. But overall, amazing video!!

[@thristanebben8902]

As a drummer, i understand that none of them are actual drummers, but man, that scene where the kid is tensing up while practicing is jarring to no end

[@ravencarino6115]

I had a discussion with a former friend of mine about Whiplash He seems to be on the opposite where it's an encouragement story where, to achieve greatness, you're going to have to do everything it takes. The ends justifies the means, he says.

[@AGuyInShades]

This whole movie felt like bootcamp. I'm sure a lot of service members could relate to Andrew. All that abuse and all you have to do to make it stop is not listen to the guy telling you what to do, but you do it anyway bc you want to be apart of something and see your full potential.

[@AImighty_Loaf]

I will not finish the video because I managed to come to the same exact conclusions you have. I would like to be able to express it through my own words rather than another. Great analysis

[@lynngraycom]

Simply put, this movie is about rising to greatness, and how although hard work is a must, you can't break through without improvisation and inspiration. No drill sergeant can burn it into you, that's not enough, which is why one of his students kills himself. The main character becomes great because he starts performing true jazz, which is improvisational. So ultimately the film isn't about greatness, or an individual soul it's about the soul of jazz and true art.

[@niall0208]

I interpreted the dads expression in the finale act as him realizing that his son is great, at the dinner table seen they all wrote his profession off thinking it lesser then football but seen is son rise to the occasion he truly sees that he is not his youngest son but probably the greatest son

[@thatoneguypj898]

That’s exactly what I thought so too, but looking at it form another perspective makes me think that maybe he thought that his son has both become one of the greats and lost a part of his soul to the obsession of achieving greatness

[@Respect2theFallen]

I didnt see Andrew leaving his father to play Caravan as turning his back on family but showing up Fletcher which is what he did however approval is what he wanted. He knew his talent

[@Jared_Wignall]

Such an amazing film and it’s cool to hear you talk about it in such detail. Keep up the great work and have a great weekend!

[@tomasinacovell4293]

Well "Andrew" never had to starve, he was just another of the upper middle class had all the trimmings.

[@cringecentral_]

@@tomasinacovell4293what are you yapping about

[@pemo2676]

did NOT expect to see The Thing mentioned here, and it was a welcome surprise!

[@OneTakeVids]

😂

[@bobs8005]

The Thing is perfect

[@barbosahMX]

Fletcher took the folder. He gives the notes back to Neiman at the concert in the end. That Close-up shot of Fletcher is super creepy, the smile is almost hidden by the framing of the shot. And yes, the father seems a bit worried, he knows his son is ready to go all the way for the teachers approval. Yet, it is a usual tale around mentors and mentoring new artists. Artists are ego maniacs and when their ego is pushed they get better. And that is a fact. Great thriller, different. I love it. Has a powerful message to give.

[@private755]

You had me until “artists are egomaniacs” which is ridiculous. The practice of creation is humbling as hell to any true artist/musician. I hate the idea that people need to force feed vitriol to others to make them change. It’s just false all around.

[@MCmikelmax]

Artists are egomaniacs. Look at their reactions to having their egos checked by AI of all fucking things.

[@InkAndPoet]

I had an art teacher whose good graces I tried to get in for all my time in high school. I tried so hard, but I never ended up being one of the students he thought of as his chosen few. Because of this, the fun in art slowly drained from me and I finished my senior year with a 42 (an F in my school's grading system, don't worry I had completed all my necessary credits to graduate). Thinking about it years later, I realize he was probably just playing favorites with his students and never thought of me as one. I still do art today, but mostly for myself and not for anyone else. Seeing Andrew go through all of that just for Fletcher's approval just takes me back to that time. I wish I could have the opportunity to see my art teacher again and tell him i regret ever trying to get his approval and that i should've realized he would never have given it to me.

[@efxanim8tor]

A word to the wise as a professional artist myself, who had little to no formal training growing up - you will never become who you are meant to be if you constantly seek the approval of others. You must be your own boss while constantly working on improving yourself. "Meeting" approval is one thing you do along the way. "Seeking" it, though, is a dead-end always.

[@InkAndPoet]

@@efxanim8tor thank you for those words, my friend.

[@bloodysweetzombiegirl]

I can’t imagine… I’ve watched kids who love music drop band going into High School bc they want to continue loving music instead of having to compete with their own bandmates for numbered chairs, much less with other schools for trophied Spectaculars and such. On the flip side of that, I can understand loving something so much that you cannot accept anything but perfection.

[@jmls3584]

You could argue Fletcher wasn't pained about the former student dying because he cared about him as a person, but because he is sad about the great music that won't get made now that the student is dead. If Fletcher were truly pained about the student ending his own life wouldn't he ease up on his tactics at least a little bit or consider that maybe there are other ways to inspire greatness other than psychological/physical abuse?

[@scisfoodsucks]

and what ways are there really? can you list some? list some ways to create a genius execpt for physiological abuse please thank you

[@Tsudkyk]

I watched this movie at a gathering of friends so I spent the majority of the movie talking with everyone- it was essentially background noise. My algorithm has been suggesting a lot of Whiplash videos so I’m checking this one out. It appears to be a great movie, definitely feel like this is something I should have already watched and end up recommending to someone else

[@lukeluke333lukeluke]

Such a great movie and was my favorite movie that year. Such a simple story but oh boy is the acting and writing amazing. Loved every minute of the movie.

[@guscox9651]

I really liked your financial model analogy. Also, i didnt realise that andrew ended up dressing like fletcher on their third date! Thats a really good spot

[@L4t3xs]

One thing not mentioned in this was that the chair Fletcher threw was the equivalent of cymbal he talks about in an earlier scene. The insults he uses after were prepared in the same discussion he mentioned the cymbal in.

[@Capybara_Productions]

As a saxophone player, your point about the director stopping to find a mistake being like a thriller is spot fucking on

[@davidwhatsthatabout7404]

Neyman is basically the physical embodiment of what it means to be an intern

[@courtneysreviews438]

Box cutter scene 💯 It's hard to turn the Saul lens off, isn't it? Love this movie. It reminds me of Black Swan and the quest for greatness; both films take the idea of suffering for your art to the next level.

[@kamcashman]

💯

[@gibusgaming0903]

1:33 im actually a band kid and our director is a perfection freak and will make all of us play individually, so i can relate to this scene on a personal level.

[@jacobopstad5483]

I think anyone who has lived through narcissistic abuse can totally understand this film. I never saw the ending as triumphant, except maybe for Fletcher. He knows he has Andrew under his power again. The look on Andrew's father's face at the end mirrors the tragedy of victims of narcissistic abuse who often can't get out of its cycle.

[@topi1374]

8:39 the fact that I watched this movie multiple times in the past but completely forgot about the "love interest" storyline until I saw this clip says everything. This is a great movie

[@Dolshadow]

What I saw in those final moments in the movie was freedom. Everything aligned. He wasn't worried about anything. He was just letting loose. The familiar scene of blood dripping down his hand, that was his dedication, his passion, his being. In that moment, that was his everything. It was his magnumopus. Or at least that's what I felt.

[@AbdulGabagool83]

I think the main problem with Fletchers Jo Jones throwing a cymbal at Charlie Parker analogy is that Fletcher is no Jo Jones, he’s a jazz teacher lol

[@woodbuse]

Interesting thought about the dad’s face in the final scene. Personally, I had always interpreted his dad’s expression as awe and shock in realizing the passion/talent/greatness that his son is finally realizing. It was always my opinion that his family never took his drumming seriously and so this was a defiant moment in proving them wrong.

[@juris9546]

Shut up pls 😊

[@jayDClo]

My high school baseball coach was a Fletcher type. I remember I was a freshman and got called up for a spring break varsity tournament. I hadn’t gotten any playing time, but we were getting killed one game and out of nowwhere my coach goes, “Freshman, you want to catch?” And I hesitated for literally a half second and he immediately goes “I guess not.” Crazy head games.

[@bobs8005]

Did you end up playing all 4 years in high school under him?

[@Scout34111]

You can desire to be great but when your fulfillment comes from others instead of your own accomplishments that takes away from you

[@Jonjzi]

I'm pretty sure I remember reading someone else's comment pointing this out, but Fletcher's playing at the club is some of the most milquetoast disingenuous pseudo-jazz you could imagine, so you have to wonder if that was intentional or not? If so, it could indicate that Fletcher is motivated by his frustration over his own lack of greatness. Either he is just bitter and resentful or he is trying to compensate for his own lack of greatness by bringing it out from someone else.

[@shaikahmed3__5]

could be

[@Oliver0200]

Incredible video. This must've taken a great amount of work. Thank you for explaining what I couldn't put it words for me.

[@saxassoon]

I think to me the most insidious part of the whoel movie of whiplash is watching the anger melt off fletchers face into wonder and satisfaction. It was at that point you can see in his mind that he has won, and he finally has a case study to prove his methods right. Espeically given his personality, the fact that only Andrew ever broke through to greatness isn't a negative, its proof that only a select few ever achieve greatness, and well, "Only Andrew made it cuz only Andrew was worth making it" He'll never doubt himself again, and he'll double, triple, and quadrupole down to push Andrew higher and higher and we can all know where it is. To me, that scene was akin to a horror movies scene where the last final desperate escape from the villain is thwarted, and the screen cuts to black with the audience fully aware that the game is up, and the bad guys won. This scene showed us that after everyones efforts to pull him back, Andrew has fully lost to Fletcher, and thrown himself into drumming, and we can all see how its going to end.

[@jemwand2530]

Whiplash was an amazing film, though sometimes one can watch a film, recognise it's genius, yet never want to watch it again. For me, Whiplash is one of those movies, along with Trainspotting. Both excellent stories but both emotionally traumatic, which is not a place I would choose to visit more than once.

[@cbowyer8259]

I’m glad other people talk about the will others talk about you after your gone part of this movie it’s a real question and it’s the whole point of the movie. It insinuates after the final performance that Andrew went on to be an amazing drummer and he had people talk about him years and years later

[@benjaminzarkhin1293]

And what do you gain from some random family mention your name in 30 years time.

[@TheAngryCanadian1109]

Oh my god bro this resonates with me so much and what I have done to people with the movie whiplash I love this and it resonates with me being that against the Canadian job market. You just earned yourself a sub mate, great job this is such an amazing video

[@hi-test7122]

The thing that’s always bothered me about Fletcher is, who says he’s the gatekeeper of greatness? Is he a band leader, a prominent critic, a record producer, no, as far as I can see, he’s a high school band teacher. He can certainly say who’s the best in his class but beyond that, who the hell are you, Fletcher?

[@queuedjar4578]

Eh you're missing a key detail. Though the school Fletcher works for is fictional, it's implied throughout the story that the Shaffer Conservatory is "one of the greatest music schools in the country" basically like Julliard level. He's not just some random high school band teacher, but another point in the movie is proven that no one outside of Neiman and maybe a few other jazz heads would even be familiar with the guy in the first place, definitely not enough to even be a household name.

[@PeterScofield-fq3oj]

@@queuedjar4578 I suppose you're right, Fletcher's blessing can open doors for him. But his methods . . . Makes me wonder what his backstory is, how he was treated at the same age. What a great movie to make me think about it so much.

[@jacobchiang]

There are many ways to achieve the greatness, regardless the top level of music schools or any other level. Fletcher’s approach wasn’t healthy, if Bird wasn’t successful who give a damn about him?

[@hi-test7122]

Fletcher makes a lot of assumptions about his own taste and judgment. Particularly about a young artist just learning his craft. Who’s to say he wouldn’t have kicked out a young Louie Armstrong or Ella Fitzgerald?

[@MrBeast-1]

I'm torn by the end though. Like in Rocky, where he gets knocked down but he gets back up. He went back even after being embarrassed, which shows strength. He overcame and his future perhaps is not just being a drummer.

[@JoshLange3D]

Excellent deep dive. Liked hearing your takeaways as you compared it to your own tests at work.

[@ModeratelyAmused]

It's good to know the director meant for the ending to be tragic because that's always how I took it. I wanted to see the so-called protagonist, win over the approval, then rejected it by standing up, setting down the drum sticks and walking out to hug his dad. I was bewildered by those that considered the ending a happy one.

[@Maou3]

I feel like this video synopsizes more than it analyzes, and the analysis really never goes deeper than one analogy

[@jellyface401]

I always felt that fechers didn't know what greatness looked like he just wanted someone good enough that would go to the furthers extremes.

[@foxybyproxy]

i thought it was a bit of both, re: dad at door, watching- mourning the death of his son's soul BUT his face also shows the moment when dad believes the drums are important and his son is kicking a**...definite awe.

[@osenator]

Great movie. When I was a teacher in my 20s, I was always fair to my students. I explained you might suck at something, but great at something else. No one can be great at everything. The secret is finding what you love and work hard at it. No one is suddenly good at something, you must develop your talent.

[@poindextertunes]

well prodigies do exist. My best friends older brother got a full ride to be a concert pianist at a big college. He could listen to something on the radio and immediately play it on piano and he had perfect pitch. I asked my best friend once “He must practice all the time to be so good” and he said “no not really, he could always play like that since he was a kid” some ppl are just born with it, albeit rare and is just an exception to what you were saying

[@osenator]

@@poindextertunes actually, he is exactly like someone I knew, that even went to work on THE SIMPSONS. Amazing at drawing Spiderman, superman, you name it.... BUT if you asked him to draw anything original, he couldn't, even to save his life. Some people like him and your friends are what I call Human photocopiers. They can mimic anyone's work amazingly, but sadly, zero ounces of originality. I myself been writing my own stories, characters and comics since I am 14 years old and been published in graphic novels and never went had drawing classes, went university or college to learn drawing. Did it all my own. Never traced, copied or ripped off a character or story. Originality is something A.I. will never have.

[@fellowpassenger_54-67]

Before watching this film I thought that being celebrated as one of the greatest at a something in of itself was a good thing regardless of the cost, but after I saw this film, I realized that being famous in of itself isn’t a good or bad thing, it’s the cost that decides it, and in this case Andrew’s cost was everything just so that in the best case scenario a whole world of strangers would know about him but wouldn’t care about him on a personal level, oh and he dies young as a result of a drug overdose for good measure In life, I’d rather have two people I deeply care about rather than have the whole world know about me because in this life, what matters is your day to day life and the people involved with it

[@oshirosauro]

around the minute 9:00 when you were talking about rocky and the sacrifices i thought about the eye of the tiger mentioned on rocky 4, in my opinion the eye of the tiger is the will to sacrifice everything for the glory

[@jo-lynnsomers8103]

Rationally, I can appreciate this movie. It is in fact a great version of a cautionary tale. But emotionally I resent it. Mostly because my younger brother and dad see it as a great movie with a triumphant ending. They go on and on about how they think Fletcher is the greatest and do not at all see him as a villian. The fact that my brother also plays the drums and is also very telanted adds to that. When they talk about this movie every once in a while, it almost makes me affraid for my brothers futur. It makes me afraid that he will not see abusive relationships when they harm him. I makes me fearfull of my little brother growing up in this messed up world. So I'm not the best person to objectively judge this movie because everytime I try to watch it fills me with this feeling of distress.

[@zeromech1450]

This is one of those movies that down the line many uears from now needs a sequel. So we can see the consequences of his actions here. And perhaps break the cycle himself. It would be a hell of a redemption story. Especially considering whiplash is the definition of a modern classic.

[@SelvesteHenrik]

Another very enjoyable analysis! I haven't seen this movie in years, and I certainly was not conscious of most of the things you very elegantly unpack here. Yet, somehow your elucidation appears as a higher resolution version of my now old and pixellated impressions of the movie. I guess that's a sign of good storytelling on both you and the directors part. Thanks!

[@take5th]

My father was a jazz pianist totally absorbed by his craft. Partly from a desire to be the best he could be, but also to avoid the rest of the world. Nothing really in common with this movie, except that I met Joe Jones once in 1973 at one of my dad’s gigs. I had to learn for myself what drove me, as total freedom from a parent who dislikes everything but music can be a losing proposition. I would say that my father’s choices and goals were very costly to him, and to those around him. But, who can really tell?

[@Tsudkyk]

Fletcher reminds me of an old crusty warrant officer in the navy. They see potential in people and push them to their limits, but it creates a person who is breaking their own boundaries over and over. It makes them resilient- but they can adopt the same teaching style.

[@galactikhex]

I think Fletchers general idea, in that telling people that they're doing well all the time and what they're doing is fine is a bad thing is actually fundamentally completely correct. The problem is he goes about not doing this by being cruel and overly punishing to people, rather than being more strict but motivating at the same time

[@KewlImp]

This movie was super interesting for me. JK Simmons is an amazing actor, but back in high school, I wanted to do more than classical and "safe for football games" songs. Finally in my senior year they introduced a zero hour Jazz Band and I jumped on it. Now I have to admit I wasn't the best at practicing so I was often at the bottom of the second band. So, when I got the chance to walk in the door with the first band to start playing more encouraging and fun music, I didn't hold back. The only thing I did that shocked any of my directors was playing the opening piece of trumpet with notes I've never been heard playing (since I was always on the bottom) that stopped the everyone in their tracks and stare at me. To counteract the bad ass moment, I had to get the first band people to tell me what the fingerings were. Now, post high school, I probably could have practiced more and possibly got into a college band program. But I never been so drive to play. Unlike... My older brother who plays drums in a couple of different bands. I asked him about the movie and he didn't have a lot to say. But he said "You don't stop playing." That is the part that stuck out, but to paraphrase, he went on about being dedicated. It still wasn't a long conversation, but he is a tough guy and pushes himself. He has put in that effort over and over again. Cut hands, bleeding hand, whatever it takes you finish the set. If he took the college route, I could see him like the back up brought in to motivate Andrew further. Dedicated enough to kick ass at a difficult part, but its not so important to give up everything. The ending isn't a triumph, its a glorified middle finger and it's sad. I wish I could find something proud in it, but to me it is like going to a high school bully on their death bed and punching in the face so you can have the last hit in.

[@nemtudom5074]

As someone whose father was a less charismatic fletcher, you dont want to be in a situation like this. If you're dealing with an abusive asshole who's hurting you to make you better, then you need to quit, and run. Staying means you'll end up like David Martinez, quitting will give you a peaceful life at the cost of not reaching your full potential.

[@benjaminzarkhin1293]

Good parallel with the Edgerunners mention. I do NOT get how people thought anything in that series was positive.

[@nemtudom5074]

@@benjaminzarkhin1293 That series is cyberpunk to the core, which also means, no happy endings There's no rest for the wicked.

[@dingbat999]

finishing with neiman’s father’s words “perspective” was crucial. if only andrew rid himself of his tunnel vision.

[@ndndave9241]

What I dug most from this movie was the message that: no matter how much you want to be great at something, chances are very high that what you want to be great in is a niche market. And SHOULD you become great outside that market, you are basically a sell-out. Also, I dug the part, after school for Fletcher, it was hinted at that his style really didn't work with real musicians. They were neither afraid of him nor intimidated by him. While he was a god to the band in school, on the streets he wasn't much of anything but just another musician. And due to that line of "great job", I've done my best to not use in real life.

[@ardeshirafshari1670]

Honestly, that analogy about financial models was really great tbh. nice video 👍

[@ThrarmAnimation]

when i first watched whiplash i hated the ending, i was so caught up in wanting what was best for andrew that i never considered the message, after watching this i have a newfound appreciation for the film

[@juris9546]

Can you shut up

[@jamesd5761]

I feel its more ambiguous than a cautionary tale... while Fletcher was appalling to Andrew and the other students, he did everything he needed to get Andrew in the frame of mind to achieve greatness. The question is whether the obsessive need to get there is worth the payoff

[@jdub5225s]

This is an absolutely perfect breakdown, at least from what I thought

[@andta7889]

The true message of the film: The dire consequence of not knowing one self and not following one’s own heart. The final performance: feltcher when he realizes he should have became a neuro bass or Break Core producer instead of a jazz band instructor. Feltcher is upset in the film because he did jazz to be classy. However his true passion is neuro bass, Break Core and smashing things. Instead of channeling his passion for fast paced break beats and heavy sound design into music, he channeled it on real people. This is the true consequence of not knowing one self and not following one’s own heart.

[@andta7889]

My essay deserves a SSS+ for grade thank you thank you

[@andta7889]

ありがとうございます先生

[@TIOLIOfficial]

20:13 - I definitely don't see it as that. That smile was more "Now it's my time, now I get to show what I know". That being said, I watched this movie a long time ago, so I may not remember the movie correctly.