Ancient Therapy for Modern Problems: Stoic Philosophy Explained

[@PhilosophyTube]

Hey, if you learned something in this video then would you sign up to my Patreon? The show literally can't happen without it! Patreon.com/PhilosophyTube

[@PixelatedTony]

The quality of your videos is insane. I cannot believe the change between now and a year ago. Truly, well done.

[@SOLH-vq3lh]

Heya, 10 years huh? good on you, happy things went from bad to wherever you are right now, you seem content, full in heart and financially secure, helping people like me learn a thing or two about a thing or two, sorry to hear about the things regarding the relationship, but look at you now, strong as adamantium, brilliant as a supernova. You seem like a wonderful person and i wish you the best. Your new fan from Sweden -Solo

[@CapriUni]

I did like the bit with the religious studies. It's fascinating to see how ideas get recycled through cultures. As for Stoic Physics. That clearly includes gravity 😉. And congratulations on your tenth anniversary. This month is my seventh anniversary of watching Philosophy Tube. I'm glad we've both made it this far.

[@ApequH]

For everyone that doesn't read the post show subtitles, Abbie has merch! There are t-shirts!

[@alexanderpovey1973]

1:05 what does that mean?

[@trikitrikitriki]

I went to a therapist and while she did use CBT, she also once straight up said, "You can't therapy away your crappy life. Depression is the rational response to your situation. You need to get out of your current situation. You can't do that yet, and I want to try to help you cope until you can." The fact that I was in a shitty situation was part of the reality I had to face. It was hard because sometimes it's more comforting to think you can control everything, but you have to accept the reality that while you can and should fight to change the world, at the end of the day, the person you uniquely have the most control over is yourself. You can easily fall into despair when you realize that getting out of your shitty situation will take time. So you have to find that balance between accepting that change will take time and continuing to work towards making that change.

[@Andre-bi3gq]

What was or is your crappy situation? I feel like shit right now

[@trikitrikitriki]

@@Andre-bi3gq I was living with a transphobic mom and stepdad, my supportive father had to leave the country to care for his dying mom and would never be able to return due to immigration rules, I was dealing with stress from juggling college and a job, I couldn't afford treatment for my chronic pain disorder, and I couldn't afford hormone therapy.

[@fotdk1]

"you can't therapy away your crappy life" Is something I wish I was told, because it really hammers in how therapy isn't a magic bullet to end suffering. My support group lead actually helped me out in regards to a personal matter, which is why I have unending love and respect for her. It's like getting stabbed and then getting a bandage on it, with no one questioning why you're getting stabbed and how to stop it.

[@JohnnyWishbone85]

Paramedic here. The rather crude but practical phrase used in emergency medicine is "SLS," or "shit life syndrome." There's no one thing that stands out; it's all bad. Personally, I think it could also be called "CMDS," or "chronic monetary deficiency syndrome." For a huge number of people, it's just that simple.

[@readonlymemories]

"...and the wisdom to know the difference."

[@Ticket2theMoon]

My abusive ex-husband is a minister and when Abby started talking about logos, I got nervous. I could hear him in my head rhapsodizing about the gospel of John and the use of the word logos and what it meant to Greek philosophers at the time, and my nerve endings started buzzing, my brain started panicking, my breathing sped up. I was very tempted to click away. But I love Abby's videos, so I breathed through it and kept listening, and I'm so glad I did. Now I have memories of Abby talking about these ideas to help drown out that other voice that makes me feel scared, and that is hugely helpful. ❤

[@SirAntoniousBlock]

Star Wars fan was he?

[@Ticket2theMoon]

@@SirAntoniousBlock Whoa yeah, he was. How did you know that? I'm missing the connection.

[@SirAntoniousBlock]

@@Ticket2theMoon The music when Abbie was explaining the concept of _logos_ listen back to it.

[@ilexdiapason]

​@@SirAntoniousBlock i feel like you're missing the fact that they might not want to purposefully listen to triggering material multiple times so soon after one another

[@christiantaylor1495]

Can't relate. Not left wing.

[@mariannetheriault421]

"I've studied it for a couple of years, but I never had the natural talent" I bow in respect for the spin you've put on it ! Wow !

[@Fern_Tull]

Honestly as a trans guy I feel like that's the best way to put it

[@Annemoontje]

And the smirk with which she said it, I cracked up! :'D Good way of putting it.

[@bake-io1cf]

@@Fern_Tull as a woman who crossdresses you mean

[@GThe-su9kl]

​@@bake-io1cf says who? A troll crossdressing as a human?

[@bake-io1cf]

@@GThe-su9kl objective reality is a troll now

[@sarahfay5280]

The "is that her brother" line made me crack up. I graduated high school, over 20 years ago, and showed my girlfriend my graduation pictures, without any context. "Oh wow, your brother is really hot... wait, I thought you were an only child, and you started transitioning over a decade ago... I'm really confused." I told her I sold my soul to HRT in exchange for eternal youth, and it was a photo of someone I used to be, a very long time ago.

[@Karin-fj3eu]

Your brother is really hot lol

[@ender691]

why did your girlfriend just immediately call someone, who she thought to be your brother hot?

[@sarahfay5280]

@@ender691 we're polyamorous and okay with casual observations of attractiveness

[@babbisp1]

​@@sarahfay5280 But with relatives? What if she had said 'your mom is fine af'.

[@8xottox8]

​@@babbisp1 I imagine she has said that. I don't see how that'd be any different. Honestly I'm more worried over you two guys. If you think someone is hot are you immediatelly compelled by your lizard brain to act on it somehow?

[@timmcdraw7568]

I was called a “true stoic” by someone who had known me for a very very long time. He said I always had been one. Which sent me into such a massive crisis! because that’s bonkers and signaled to me that A) I wasn’t letting even those closest to me know how completely irrational and terrified, desperate, and neurologically overwhelmed I feel during my shockingly regular … dips? Lows? Crises? And therefor B) I was basically a complete unknown! And B.5) I was living in the world under an even, witty, self sufficient fully-false persona during my only chance to live at all, and B-thus.) therefor I must truly believe atrocious things about myself if I keep it hidden from everyone. So I went to therapy to become everything opposite of stoic, leading me to a very healing, old fashion,, long overdue breakdown, bringing me closer to myself and those I like, and reality. It seemed like the only rational choice! God grant me irrational emotions!

[@ammarlalji5208]

you have just put into words a realization that i was so afraid to engage with, but your description has now finally brought it out of my head and into reality so i am forced to engage with it. so i want to give you a very genuine thank you.

[@fellinuxvi3541]

What does it mean to be the opposite of a stoic?

[@Communallity_Breeds_Content]

Isn't this where... We came in?

[@timmcdraw7568]

@@ammarlalji5208 wow. There really isn’t a better message to get from a stranger in a life I think. Thank you so much for telling me that. And I wish you so much good luck - it’s a wonderful thing, being free. It’s a really painful realization. Truly. Expect more pain. I wasn’t exaggerating about the breakdown, it went on for almost a year, and in hindsight(!) it was the most magical rewarding internal experience of my entire life. (I’m Including puberty and gender evolutions in my ranking here). Something like a breakdown used to be my worst nightmare, the ultimate worst thing that could happen, but …I truly was changed by it, over time, letting the breakdown itself dictate where to go and what to think about or reach for. It’s like It changed my physical substance! I went from being a pile of bricks blocking a nervous system to something porous! Effected. Part of the universe. Id like to take a moment here to thank therapists and cats.

[@timmcdraw7568]

@@fellinuxvi3541 opposite of stoic ( as defined by a person who already explained that they’re decidedly NOT a stoic, and is aware of the imbedded criticism in your comment but isn’t bothered): a person who is overcome by the irrational, swept away by feelings and isn’t sold on the idea that the first response to explosive feelings and irrational thinking should be logic, and a person who thinks that the desire to fix every “problem” or unbalanced feeling is truly cutting themselves off at the knees in terms of what we can experience in the world. I think I am just equating the entire philosophy with Cbt therapy and cartoons of Davey crocket and the myth of George Washington. I don’t think the man who called me stoic had a much deeper understanding than this. All I mean I’ve learned to love being at the mercy of the irrational, though I had to come to believe it’s the most rational thing. In terms of art (I’m a painter) stoic would be neoclassical I think. And the opposite of that would fall under the umbrella of the romantic - from Friedrich to Leonora Carrington, late Goya, Cecily brown etc.

[@silversam]

Thank you for making this! side note/message from future historians: That "guy" who used to present this show was super chill and all, but this lady seems way happier and, frankly, even cooler 😎

[@BluntSam]

@@jimicunningable why do you think that is? we aren’t sad because we are trans - were sad because people are taking away our rights. there is not much of a future to look forward to if it keeps going this way

[@1234kalmar]

@@jimicunningable Most of our issues would wither to a third of their intensity if society was supportive.

[@laurararararara]

@@jimicunningable from the tone of your comment, i wouldn't smile around you either.

[@Gothstana]

I hear this girl is even the descendent of royalty. She's literally a princess!

[@grey_f98]

I'm very curious about it and hope she makes a video of it, but I wonder what goes through her head when she sees her "old" self? I remember looking at old childhood pictures of myself, and it's a mix between "that's me" and "is that me?" It's like the ship of Theseus question, if you gradually change something, is it the same thing anymore? But unlike growing up, gender affirmation can be much less gradual and much more conscious, it's a completely different experience. An entire video about identity and the feeling of the self would be very interesting given her own personal journey on the matter. Edit: added the line "it's a completely different experience" to avoid any misunderstanding of what I'm saying

[@gloriaris.effect]

thank you for mentioning the criticisms of stoicism. my abuser became a stoic after my family left him, but in the toxic-masculinity separatism misogynist way. his take on it revolves around his own convoluted take on reality. it's nice to know that stoicism isn't *bad* , just he is. as always, i appreciate your work and learning and stuff 💕

[@catherinecrawford2289]

Narcissism likes to pretend to many labels, when it is always self-serving and toxic. I'm sorry you went thru that and I wish you well.

[@RecklessFables]

The algorithm is going to be hitting us with a lot of manosphere bullshit after watching this video. Just smile and click to not recommend.

[@asonunique7083]

Things don"t happen to you. They happen for you. Amor fati.

[@etaknar]

Actually, stoicism is bad, almost irredeemable. It places people in an adversarial relationship with their own emotions, and a house so divided is set up for a fall. Toxic masculinity is one of the primary outcomes of taking its ideas seriously. I would love to live in a world that is more Epicurean and less Stoic.

[@revan552]

Yeah, in Stoicism rise to modern relevance it was unfortunately also hi-jacked by the "Red-pill" "Manosphere" types and they crrrasstedd a bastard child of pseudo-Stoicism melded with toxic masculinity and machismo bullsh*t, with some pseudo-Nietzsche thrown in for good (or bad) measure. It's this amorphous blob of half-baked ideas and cherry-picked quotes devoid of any of the original philosophical depth, peddled to incels and Jordan Peterson/Andrew Tate fans because it sounds "super manly" and tells disillusioned young men that they're special, so they eat it up. But like you said, Stoicism isn't bad. Just that they are.

[@alexullrich5694]

what a different adolescence I would have had if I had found this channel as a teenager. great work!

[@PhilosophyTube]

Welcome aboard!

[@DesertFernweh]

I couldn't agree more. I gave my 16 year old Nephew a copy of Meditations. I suspect it is gathering dust ona self somewhere. I know that someday a decade or two from now he will pick it up and read it. Then he will wish he read it sooner, the cycle continues.

[@HeisenbergFam]

Its nice of Philosophy Tube to give away free philosophy degrees

[@piccalillipit9211]

Are you certain about that?

[@ValVonRhine]

WHO ARE YOU?

[@anonymousinfinido2540]

You are here too

[@fightvale57]

Funny seeing you round here. I am watching Breaking Bad. When do you think you broke bad? I think its when you let Jesse's girlfriend o.d.

[@timothytosser288]

Ayo mista white

[@Nick-vb7gb]

As a long time viewer, the tender moment talking about Philosophy Tube's age and as a way to get back at an abuser moved me. I really appreciate you as a person and as an educator Abigail. You've helped grow a lot of people's perspectives and I want you to know that we appreciate you

[@gbach2651]

'If someome can prove me wrong and show me my mistake in thought or action I shall gladly change' -Marcus Aurelius That is the compelling core of Stoicism for me and why I think it is so relevant even today It puts an empathis on the perceptual limitations of human beings and the necessity for life long learning and personal growth

[@timfriday9106]

dayum, i been slowly, accidentally following stoicism for over a decade now...

[@DZersen]

unless its woman prove me Im wrong, then I dismiss her XD

[@tomeknowak8149]

its very easy to be "calm" when you are addicted to opium, dear Mark aurelius

[@deanodog3667]

It's been proven wrong by modern neuroscience, free will is a myth !!

[@Mr_Sarcasum]

It's like ancient pragmatism with a focus on spiritual/mental health

[@Elemental-Phoenix]

16:39 “I studied it for some years but never had the natural talent” I’m stealing that. It’s a perfect description. Holy shit.

[@Olyfrun]

Her: cuts cigar Me: how long have you been holding those scissors? Her: are you going to accept the real world, or not?

[@doorhanger9317]

It's fascinating that in all 2500 years of practicing soicism, the movement as a whole has been very resistant to the concept that in many cases, having a correct judgement about something should actually make you _furious_

[@lifeturn594]

I think the stoic view might be that you should set aside the fury because it will impede your ability to determine the correct course of action. I was going to elaborate by describing the need to punch Nazis mindfully but I don't want my comment moderated.

[@ingni123456]

I think the problem is that there's a spectrum of things that are or are not in our control. The belief seems to be that you shouldn't be furious about things you can't change, but makes no distinctions on that topic

[@julessansjim]

I don't really follow 'stoicism' but I do realize I probably act alongside it on many occasions. On the case of anger or fury against injustice, my take is that these feelings should fuel your actions, embrace them as energy towards correcting what seems wrong, but shouldn't be justifications by themselves on what or how to do things. And I think that could align with stoic ideals

[@KityKatKiller]

It really doesn't. One of the major tenants of stoicism is the duty to serve the community you are living in. So you can make the observation that something is shit, set aside your anger, and then work tirelessly against this situation. The only thing in your control is your judgements. So as long as your judgement is that it's worthwhile to do that, go ahead and do it. But you can do it wothout anger, because it will make it a healthier and happier process.

[@julessansjim]

@@KityKatKiller I get the jist. The thing is we now know that not properly living through your emotions is unealthy on the long term. It is actually more aligned with reality (through science) to connect with your anger especially if it's legitimate. Without letting it take decisions without reason. "Forget your bad emotions and focus on staying 'reasonably happy'" is not sustainable. There's some equilibrium to find

[@igorjee]

14:52 "Houdeis hekon hamartanei" is a Greek phrase that can be translated to "No one errs willingly" or "Nobody does wrong knowingly." It comes from a quote by Socrates, who believed that people only do bad things because of their ignorance and lack of understanding of what is right or wrong. The phrase has been used in various contexts to convey the idea that people generally have good intentions and that mistakes or wrongdoings are often the result of ignorance or lack of knowledge.

[@xXRickTrolledXx]

Reminds me of the work of Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s ‘Theory of Stupidity’.

[@naikigutierrez4279]

So, it’s the ancient greek version of “pobody’s nerfect”?

[@DJDocsVideos]

And than guys like Donald Trump come along and reality proofed Socrates wrong. One can't always win.

[@Jefa_Adili]

Reminds me of Humanistic Psychology

[@GrahamChapman]

I believe the adage known as "Hanlon's Razor" is the most equivalent modern approximation to that expression: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity/incompetence." Though there is a flip side to that one that's gained a lot of traction ever since the trump era: "Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by systemic incentives promoting malice."

[@annabelletolley8916]

this is one of the best videos of hers so far i think, love seeing the production quality get better and better, the philosophical arguments get more detailed, and the characters get more fleshed out!! long time viewer of the channel and continue to be blown away :)

[@smugless191]

Yeah, this is my favourite in a while. I especially like the stoic physics part!

[@GomesBrown]

"I go the extra mile, with extra style" now that's a hell of a good description of your channel!

[@otakudoomer646]

Love the content. I fell like stoicism has taken a warped form of people thinking it consists of a lack of emotion. This is a great video for people to get into it

[@MrAdamo]

It consists of a lack of emotion in aspects where emotion tends to get in the way, but I agree that people have warped it to mean a lack of emotion in all circumstances.

[@otakudoomer646]

@@MrAdamo yeah it has definitely become one end of the spectrum of sorts in stoicism that.

[@justforfunlol2258]

Its cuz of those red pill mfs using that term for their unhealthy masculine standards

[@camiloordonez4906]

It's also degrading into pedestrian self help.

[@nestrior7733]

There is almost no other way but for it to be warped in our modern world. Stoicism in the sense of "accepting things we shouldn't because we accept the reality of it" is a perfect way to drive up "efficiency" and "productivity." This reaches "bad" very quickly. "Kelly Slaughter" made this very clear. In a more humane world, stoicism would have few problems. But this in many aspects overheating world? Difficult.

[@pseudonamed]

It is always so frustrating to read a lot of classic writing by great thinkers who are concerned about human freedom, who expanded views about equality compared to the society they were in.. and yet after all that thinking and observing they still had huge blind spots around women, slaves, specific ethnicities, etc. It's like these things were so ingrained in their upbringing it didn't even occur to them to question them, even as they questioned so much else.

[@Yemadas]

It's only human

[@SonjaPond]

I think it was inconvenient to question those things… so they didn’t

[@m33LLS]

In the future it would also be about us and how we treated animals for food, etc

[@myczycz]

@@m33LLSAnd how we killed them to be stuffed for our amusement... Seriously, the taxidermic animals in this video are so disgusting and disturbing. But actually, I'm not sure if humans will ever expand their empathy to include other animals at the same level as other humans. The future doesn't look very bright, with climate change, new wars breaking up etc. I'm afraid we'll abandon some of our moral beliefs towards other humans just so we don't feel obligated to share resources, and we might start treating non-human animals even worse.

[@JingleJangleJam]

In the future, what blind spots do you think a hypothetically advanced, utopian civilization would see about us, and shaking their head, think ''My, my they talked about inclusion, hearing all people's voices, and being kind to other groups, yet look at all their blind spots with [...]'' and in that ''[...]'' Would be the long list of social problems that us, being too biased by our current historical era, are so indoctrinated we do not even realise those forms of wrong headed thinking are wrong.

[@AtticusEdwards]

My story with CBT and stoicism: I had exceedingly, exceedingly severe OCD starting when I was eleven. To describe it as ruining my life would be to put it very conservatively. After four years of hell on Earth, I sought treatment for it when I was fifteen. Naturally, I underwent Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, which is still considered the frontline treatment for OCD. CBT made my condition steadily better for about a year, and then, that improvement stopped abruptly. It wasn’t clear why at first, since I had a good therapist, and he was still following CBT’s standard procedures. I had learned how to respond to my intrusive thoughts in a way that made them much less debilitating, but the symptoms remained very strong. When I was eighteen, I concluded that therapy had done all it could for me, and to try to push through the rest mentally like I had tried to do between the ages of eleven and fifteen. It didn’t work, and I had a mental breakdown at twenty. I went to therapy again, this time with a really hard core CBT therapist specializing in OCD. He was skilled and compassionate- and his treatment still didn’t do anything to achieve symptom reduction. It was at about this time that the real problem finally grew clear, which was that the particular permutation of OCD I suffered from was highly resistant to the treatment methods that the CBT paradigm champions. I suffered from OCD without overt compulsions (sometimes erroneously called “Purely Obsessive OCD” or “Pure O”). Cognitive Behavioral Therapy basically approaches OCD treatment with two horns; one “cognitive”, the other “behavioral”: the cognitive horn is the portion of CBT inspired by stoicism, which is to teach the patient to overcome their intrusive thoughts (their obsessions) by changing certain false judgments (in CBT, the phrase is “cognitive distortions”) about those intrusive thoughts that make them particularly debilitating. The second horn, which is the Behaviorist horn, attempts to treat the “compulsive” component of OCD through what is called Exposure Therapy, I.e., repeatedly exposing the patient to the stimulus that brings out their intrusive thoughts, so that the patient and the therapist can work to overcome the patient’s need to carry out a ritual (a “compulsion”) in response to those thoughts- the ritual might be something like compulsive hand-washing. Under this framework, an OCD patient without overt compulsions cannot really be treated: for patients with my condition, compulsions play out entirely mentally, and consist not of repeated hand-washing or lock-checking but of some inward, mental ritual. OCD patients of this sort might be able to learn helpful strategies, based in stoicism, for reacting to their intrusive thoughts, but they can’t work with a therapist to overcome their compulsions, because Exposure Therapy can’t happen if there isn’t an overt physical object of ritual compulsion for the therapist to help the patient resist. It was also at this time that I first learned that stoicism underpinned CBT, and, learning this, the limitations of stoicism in respect to OCD treatment quickly became obvious, as they would to any OCD patient who reads the claims the stoics make about human psychology: the stoic assertion that it is possible to change one’s feelings or reactions to the world entirely by changing the way that one judges the objects of their experience is simply false, especially for those who suffer from chronic mental illness. An OCD patient who, intellectually speaking, is entirely secular and unsuperstitious, may still be fully incapable of making themselves walk down a grocery aisle marked 13. For most OCD patients, intrusive thoughts are what is called ego-dystonic: they persist in being intrusive and debilitating despite the patient’s clear and distinct judgment that they ought not to be a bother. In short, I had learned that I suffered from a condition for which there does not currently exist any licensed medical treatment. My salvation came from deciding to read philosophers who had tried to model the human experience apart from the stoics. I overcame my OCD tout court after reading Heidegger’s Being and Time, which presented a view of human experience quite the opposite of that presented by the stoics. I won’t attempt here to explain just how Heidegger’s phenomenology helped my OCD, but suffice to say that it did, and quite well. A big problem in the world of psychotherapy right now is that basically everyone worships CBT, even though it doesn’t work on everyone. A bigger problem is that most psychologists are highly scientistic and don’t think that reading philosophy will help advance their discipline (even though CBT is largely based on ancient philosophy (?)), since they largely share Hawking’s assertion that philosophy is no longer relevant amid the advent of modern science. Psychotherapy would quickly launch itself out of the Bronze Age in which it is currently mired if psychologists would collectively decide to read Husserl and Heidegger. Not incidentally, if you’re reading this, and you’re an OCD patient whose therapy doesn’t seem to work, I strongly recommend reading Heidegger’s Being and Time. I can’t claim it will work for everyone, but it certainly saved my life.

[@samgillespie5912]

You may or may not be aware of this but treatment for Pure O has come a very long way. As a sufferer myself, exposure and response prevention worked wonders when coupled with ACT therapy. I'm only saying this because there very much is accepted and time tested treatment for Pure O sufferers. Pure O is in and if itself a huge misnomer as both obsessions and compulsions are present just as with a more visible form like Contamination OCD. The thought IS the exposure and the response prevention is not doing the mental ritual which is typically rumination. Once you understand this some progress can be made if you're a pure O sufferer. It's sort of funny actually, once you realize you're in exposure basically all day you realize you have pretty much endless opportunities to practice response prevention. I went from spending nearly all day ruminating for several months to only occasionally being bothered by intrusive thoughts. Current OCD treatment very much has a response to Pure O!

[@AtticusEdwards]

@@samgillespie5912 I’m very happy to hear that your treatment has been successful!! Seriously, I know how difficult it is to overcome OCD, especially without overt compulsions, so that’s really fantastic! I’m pretty familiar with the framework with which most psychotherapists attempt to adapt exposure therapy to OCD w/o overt compulsions- that “the thought *is* the exposure”- since that’s the spin that most of my therapists tried to put on it as well. This modification failed to help me achieve symptom reduction, and I expect I’m not the only one who’s had this reaction to this way of framing things. I believe the reason that treating thoughts as exposures failed to make exposure therapy work for me is because, in my case, the patterns of OCD ritual were so thoroughly inculcated into my neurology that even the instruction “treat your intrusive thought as an exposure” itself invariably got converted into a mental ritual with time. Basically, anything that my therapist told me to “do” when I had a reaction to my intrusive thoughts became a ritual unto itself. I brought this complaint to my therapist several times, but he didn’t seem to understand what I meant. Eventually he changed the emphasis to “you should ‘do’ nothing in reaction to your intrusive thoughts”, but that was just as unhelpful, since even the ‘not doing’ got recognized in some corner of my brain as a substantial activity, and therefore also became a ritual. The trouble here- and in my opinion the ongoing trouble with all current modes of therapy, whether CBT, DBT, ACT, or what have you- is that all assume, at least implicitly, that human thought exists in the first place as the concrete, substantial, and distinct thing that it becomes once we reflect on our own thoughts during a psychotherapy session, and ignores the more primordial and important status of thoughts, feelings, and other mental as a kind of unformed, conceptually indistinct soup that only later takes distinct form once you sit down to think about it. The same seems to go for stoicism. Since OCD basically consists (it seems to me) of an excess of sitting down to understand all our own thoughts in overly concrete and distinct detail, any form of therapy that depends on viewing thought in that way will fail OCD patients in whom those structures are deeply enough ingrained. In other words, It seems to me that any instruction for how to deal with intrusive thoughts that operates on the assumption that either intrusive thoughts, or the positive mental habits by means of which the patient is meant to deal with those intrusive thoughts, have a clear and distinct presentation, available directly to the patient’s consciousness, will always fail a patient in whom OCD is strongly enough beaten-in that all thoughts, understood in that way, will become subject to obsession and compulsion. If that makes any sense. The reason Heidegger helped me was because he was the only thinker I could find - in either psychology or in western philosophy- who articulated the existence of a background to human experience consisting of half-formed and necessarily non-distinct experience. Once I had the conceptual tools to navigate and insert myself into that background, I was finally able to overcome my OCD, because only then was I able to break the mental patterns that always led me back to trying to understand everything in the overly distinct form that CBT asks its patients to seek out. So, while I have a great deal of regard for the therapists who have helped patients of OCD without overt compulsions so far, I still think that existing forms of psychotherapy have severe limitations owing to their foundations in stoic thought, and I still think that psychotherapy would benefit enormously from broadening its philosophical basis beyond Roman stoicism. Still, existing methods are still helpful, and I more than encourage everyone with OCD to seek out therapy! I just also suggest reading phenomenology, should anyone find the time to do so.

[@klisterklister2367]

My OCD really improved with a combo of CBT and DBT with my therapist. And with some therapy with his student, who really pushed on the idea that thoughts mean absolutely nothing and in no way reflects me as a person. He often called it thought soup just like you do. Also my therapist was a bit bananas, I had OCD about knives and I thought if I held a knife I would intentionally or unintentionally hurt someone with it. I had to hide all knives so I wouldn't have to see them. So my therapist had me hold a knife against him or his student during the sessions. My god that cured my compulsions about knives very quickly.

[@AtticusEdwards]

@@klisterklister2367 it sounds like you had really helpful therapists who you were really compatible with! I’m really glad your condition has improved 👍

[@klisterklister2367]

​@@AtticusEdwards thank you, I'm happy that you improved as well with philosophy. OCD is living hell of your brains thought juice making.

[@AtentieCadMere]

I recently started watching your videos, great work btw, and when you said the channel switched presenters, I went back to see how the other presenter was doing. Usually change is not well received, and does not go well for the channel, I tried adding one... So I was curious how things went. Watched a few videos and said to myself, ok, so it went well because she is just, hands down, a way better presenter, best thing the guy could have done, step down, just hand it over to someone that fits. I know my wording sounds weird but I thought "she fits", that's why it worked, so I must find someone to just fit. The actual presenter change, the reveal, the way it was brought forth, I can't apreciate without sounding cheesy. Great job!

[@ritabylsma4244]

You know there was no person change, only a sex-change, right? So, now that same person has a female body, she is a better presenter, you say. It is an interesting question, why this is the case. Because she is more happy? Because females are more attraktive? Because this person is better at female behavior than at male behavior? Because the subject is better suited for female presenting, like meaningfull hand movements and articulate facial expressions, especially of being amused (schmunzeln in German)? Or still some other reason?

[@chipwiseman2]

@@ritabylsma4244 The last line of their comment suggests they do know, since they saw "the reveal". That aside, yeah, Abby is a better presenter now since coming out. Whether that's to do with being happier, more comfortable in her body, or just plain old improvement in her craft doesn't really matter, but I cringe a bit at your suggestions that it has to do with her physical attractiveness or some essential female role-fitting.

[@ritabylsma4244]

Those suggestions are implied by the comment I respond to. So you cringe not at the suggestions, but at them being formulated explicitely. As a female nerd, I often was told that I should have been a man or that I am a failure as a woman. So I kind of feel threatened by gender-roles. So you attack me for pointing them out, because they should stay at the gaslighting, subconsious, level? She is actually playing with physical attractivess and I do not think there is anything wrong with that, in the given context. And the female body being better at a few things, is not ‘essential female role-fitting’. The male body is also better at a few things, like weight-lifting. Futhermore, males and females have very different body-language, and whether this is biological or a social construct to be deconstructed, there is no use just ignoring it.

[@chipwiseman2]

@@ritabylsma4244 I don't think the OP implied those things at all. They just said "she [the "new" presenter, Abby] fits the show better", not tying that to her gender. And this very video talks about the dangers of leaning into "seperate spheres of excellence" theory. There are undeniable physiological differences between typical male and typical female bodies, but we mustn't let society dictate for us how to apply those differences, especially where they aren't relevant.

[@AtentieCadMere]

hi, yes, I saw the video where she explains everything. as you said, feeling better in your skin, and as said in that video, can make you be more open, and the audience can feel the atmosphere. that's it. just a "congrats" message from me. there might be something to say about somebody having the privilege to validate somebody else, but with so much hate going on, a few cheesy "good on ya" don't need to be analysed. nothing but appreciation, it should go without saying, but that is not the world we live in, so I choose to word an appreciation. @@chipwiseman2

[@emilyfarfadet9131]

The Stoicism pushed in therapy always hit upon this issue of perceived reality and what the therapist thought was reasonable. I started out as an Autistic, lacking emotional expression, being utterly detached and content within my own existence....but all of that get's snatched from you when the demands of society and education step in and say it's the wrong way to be. Then when you've worked so hard to be what is demanded, and illness, injustice, and the enforced state of human misery gets right into your soul- they extol that state of being you were punished for in the first place. They act as if being content is something you just forgot to do, not something that is constantly being beaten out of you. There are things about ourselves we can change- but not all change is good.

[@noleftturnunstoned]

Amazing point

[@MrMattias87]

"There are things about ourselves we can change- but not all change is good" True, but on the other hand it really does come to your goals and recognition of any inadequacies that needs or wants changing. Changing for the sake change is no good but changing to improve a missing gap is beneficial.

[@emilyfarfadet9131]

@@MrMattias87 Well there's the rub. 'Beneficial' to whom? If the people 'helping' us are only concerned with there own convenience rather than our overall well-being it's a serious problem.

[@gumbo210]

Thank you for commenting this. Being autistic I’ve felt exactly this way for so long but have only just realised it reading your comment.

[@OldSchoolLPsGames]

@@emilyfarfadet9131 I think the key lies in why you went to therapy. I of course don't know the specifics of your situation. But if you're there because you feel terrible and exhausted all the time, then the therapy should be focused on why you feel that way and what you can do to feel better (spending more time on yourself, learning to not rely on the judgements of others, etc.). If you were in therapy because you wanted to be able to make connections with others more easily, then the therapy should focus on understanding how other people work and how they will respond to your actions. If your therapist "assumes" what your problem is without actually asking and talking about it, that's a straight up bad therapist. There are plenty of those in the world, especially when dealing with neurodivergent clients.

[@StuartB138]

I cannot believe I’ve only just stumbled across this channel. Abigail, this video was exquisite; funny, informative and your presentation style and editing is flawless. Sensational.

[@hopelessly.lavenderly]

You have a wealth of amazing videos to enjoy! Better later than never!

[@johnmorounfoluwa7698]

I envy you, wish I could see her channel for the first time. Again and again.

[@ilyanoeteuscher6870]

It's time to binge watch the entire catalogue, bud. Have fun, it's a magnificent channel!

[@allenmorgan]

I'm late to the party too. Every so often something turns up in my feed that is a change from my regular diet and I give it a go. Usually there is not much time between "oh that's interesting" and "bored now" but Abigail's presentation style and personality make her such a great communicator that I'm happy to be playing catch up.

[@nestrior7733]

This video is going to be very difficult for me. I was a boy who was very open with his emotions. To the point of being bullied just to see me cry. So I swung to the other extreme, emulating what A Man should be. I still haven't fully recovered, quite honestly. After more than twenty years. So colour me alarmed when I saw the revival of stoicism in recent years. And its widening spread. When I had my ... "run-in" with Jordan Peterson (watched a few videos on youtube to get out of my slump after a breakup) and heard him talk about it. I was terrified. Because the way he spoke, people could very easily take it to the wrong extreme. Because that's the problem with stoicism. It helps in some aspects. Why not others? Others where it absolutely shouldn't be applied in the way some are talking about it.

[@twistysunshine]

There's a medical history podcast I listen to called sawbones, and they tend to say "cure alls cure nothing". I think some of that can be applied here. Some cbt/stoicism can be good, but if you're stretching the practice to have it be applied to everything... Then whatever you've done to it must mean it isn't going to do any good

[@veronicamaine3813]

Any philosophy can be taken to extremes - and to be honest, nearly all have with horrifying results. From Christianity to Buddhism, to Jung and Freud, from Marxism to neoliberalism- you name it, someone has twisted it and used to cause harm in the name of the greater good. That doesn’t mean the source is equally bad. It’s just a symptom of being human.

[@thewiseturtle]

CBT, stoicism, Buddhism, etc. are neither repressing emotions nor acting "irrationally" based on them, but a healthy RESPECT of emotions combined with a CURIOSITY about what they are trying to communicate. Emotions are realistic and necessary, and based on either protecting or nurturing some person, place, or thing that we care about. But we also have a more objective part of our brain, which can use that information from the limbic system (and "lower" physical-state parts of the nervous system that tell us about our body) to clue us into what's most noteworthy in a situation. The objective view can ask the emotional, and physical, parts what person, place, or thing is either being threatened (if the emotion is a negative fight, flight, or freeze type), or potentially greatly helped (if the emotion is a positive elation type), and what, specifically, might be going on to cause that experience. Then, the objective view can listen to the emotional and physical views to get a broader picture of the situation, and offer to let the other parts a chance to test out their opinions on a range of possible solutions that might be more effective in the long run. Basically, the goal is to work together with all of you collaborating respectfully, rather than letting one part, or another, fully control everything.

[@httohot]

I would argue that you should practice stoicism when listening to Peterson because this video addressed why people interpret his words so poorly all the time is due to a reliance on emotional based predjudice... Society has made a judgment about Peterson "Peterson must be X kind of person". Tuseful

[@nestrior7733]

@@httohot I had never even heard of Peterson back then. I was a tabula rasa when it came to expectations. And yet what he said sometimes triggered a small trauma response. It was only when I had the eventual Ben Shapiro video in my recs that I closed very quickly that I completely burned that bridge. Because when Peterson talked about emotions and stoicism, "biological realities" were not far away. "Realities" that were repeated by Shapiro but with the quiet part being louder when you managed to actually listen to his cascade of words. This isn't just about "emotional prejudice" either. Peterson is objectively wrong on many things and uses arguments akin to the powerlessness/inaction line of reasoning that stoicism can lead to. He's deeply entrenched in maintaining a status quo that never existed without flaws nor without injustices and blames those that have fought or are fighting to amend these for them. That is why many people don't like him. And why he was seen as one of the gates to the alt right pipeline.

[@pavloslazarou3697]

As a Cypriot Greek, the ancient greek bit was so cool to watch. You are an incredibly intelligent and funny personality. Keep up the good work!

[@eyesofthecervino3366]

Please, you have to tell me what the untranslated joke was!

[@Avigorus]

Regarding weird ideas from the roman era, like seeing the death of a child like the breaking of a cup: for context, that was an era when child mortality is estimated to be something like half of all kids not even reaching double digits. In that environment, not breaking down every single time that happened was a survival skill that kept the family going and the kids who did survive fed and clothed and everything. There were other world and cultural differences that impacted the conceptual development back then as well... that's just a tip of an iceberg.

[@ayumisae6864]

Thank you for sharing this, definitely puts this approach in a different context altogether.

[@Randomgen77]

I think the Serenity Prayer itself hints at a good way to incorporate Stoicism (and CBT) in balance - it’s good to use it sometimes, but sometimes we just need to realize “wait, this is screwed up, I (or we) need to change this.” Some days it’s good to defuse from a bad day at work or get along with a coworker who sticks their foot in their mouth, but other days you need to have the tough conversations, join a union, get a different job, etc.

[@hughcaldwell1034]

I've been thinking lately about the quote "beware the fury of a patient man". Most people seem to read that as "pent up rage is explosive", but I've always thought of it rather differently. If you put up with a lot of sh*t, then it's a good bet that when you allow yourself to get angry, it'll be for a cause you see as righteous. If your cause is righteous, then that patience will go toward being an effective agent. All this to say, beware the stoic revolutionary.

[@off6848]

The prayer cover your criticism though. It says "the things i cannot change" keyword cannot. Some things we cannot change

[@QuesoCookies]

I've always liked that about the serenity prayer. Stoicism doesn't encourage passivity, or emotional repression, it simply says to step back and ensure your response aligns with reality. And sometimes the reality is that you should be very angry and allow that anger to fuel your proactive pursuit of change.

[@overworkedcna412]

As a recovering alcoholic and someone who has made a lot of personal progress using the 12 Steps and DBT & CBT, I'm hearing a lot of really cool crossovers. One of the most powerful things I ever learned that really clicked for me was the concept that I don't reaction to situations, I react to my thoughts _about_ the situation. Scenario: As I'm walking down the street two girls look at me, whisper something to each other, and start laughing; immediately I feel embarrassment. I used to think that my embarrassment was a reaction to the _situation_ (the girls laughing). Now, I try and recognize that I'm actually reacting to my thoughts _about_ the situation. The only reason the laughing girls make me feel embarrassed is because _I'm making an assumption that they're laughing at me_ -- that's the thought ABOUT the situation that I'm ACTUALLY reacting to. So whenever a situation produces really strong emotions in me, I take a step back and think to myself... what are the underlying thoughts or assumptions that I'M making that are causing me to have such big feelings? I repeat the mantra, "Dig deep and find the hurt." Idk, it really works for me.

[@whatever3145]

...no. I'm talking about children dying and all the abuse and exploitation I see everywhere. This can be dangerous thinking in some situations- abuse for example.

[@whatever3145]

I'm also chronically ill....this just doesn't work for me because im not getting upset over anything remotely normal or shallow

[@miserablepumpkin9453]

@@whatever3145 Did you watch the rest of the video?

[@darillus1]

thing is even if the two girls were laughing at you that shouldn't bother you, its them that has the problem not you, and if they were not laughing at you, that too shouldn't bother you, that's what stoicism is about.

[@timfriday9106]

CBT and its successor DBT, are amazing. They have been adopted into so many different fields and areas of therapy/recovery, etc. It really is just training your brain to be better.

[@Mea_Sententia]

“Salvēte” is the Latin greeting for multiple addressees ☺️ There are also other options for “friends” that are more gender-inclusive than “amīcī,” such as “sodālēs” or “comitēs.” (I personally refer to my students as the gender-neutral “scholārēs” instead of “discipulae/ī”). I’m getting my PhD in Latin & Greek literature and teach both languages at the university level. If you ever want a consultant to ensure your Latin is as flawless as your makeup, I’d jump at the chance to do any translation work.

[@Matt_Barnes]

The Kelly Slaughter segment was actually getting to me, I could feel the dystopian hopelessness for my generation setting in, but then I paused and asked myself, what is the *real* emotion behind this? Answer: No, I'm still right, it's despair. I need to keep working on this Stoicism thing... the best interpretation I've got at the moment is "Just because the world is being dragged to hell in a handbasket doesn't mean my life will be awful and impoverished the whole time." Hey, maybe this is starting to work 😅

[@johannageisel5390]

My take on this is basically: If I'm going to die in the climate wars, I'll try to take one of the evil guys with me or at least try to go down protecting others. As aspire to become that Seed Lady from Mad Max - Fury Road.

[@majaherold1325]

​@@johannageisel5390 fucking based

[@roykwthelegend]

Except, you don’t. Stoicism isn’t about accepting your lot in life, it’s about accepting things you can’t change. You need to work to sustain yourself. That’s a “fact”. Everyone needs to do it. What you don’t need is: You putting up with shitty pay, shitty working conditions and shitty bosses. So you can both accept (for the time being) that work needs to be done. But you can also accept that something better is out there, either through finding another job, unionizing or political action. Because the despair you feel is created by deliberate human action, you can also change this by deliberate human action. -- In normal speak: keep fighting the fight brother 🤘🏻just don’t feel too bad about the struggle

[@Amaling]

My own life is great. Travel/traveled many places in the world for my age, career that's fighting against biodiversity loss and habitat destruction, eat and cook good food, family supports me as a person (as in identity), friends I can be honest with But the despair doesn't go away. Before it was child mortality, or disease, starvation or war at even higher rates than now. Currently the same factors are present to lesser extents, but capitalist greed grows in its terrorism to compensate. And I believe even in a more sustainable world, some other misery will rise in stocks, like water inequality or increasing dehumanization and detachment from a sense of community with growing internet ai hivemind. The despair doesn't go away. And part of human life has always been accepting said despair, otherwise yknow just go fall off the cliff

[@Jelly_Skelly]

@@Amaling If you are working on loss of biodiversity and habitat destruction I daresay you are doing more than most if not all of this comment section to bring about positive change. It sounds like you have a grip on that part, it's just that from a purely utilitarian perspective, what is to be gained from allowing yourself to suffer over what you cannot control? Personal agonizing will have no impact on those things, and will only leave you debilitated. As I once said to my therapist when we made a major breakthrough, I shouldn't be worried or stressed out about what my ex wife may or may not do. It will do just as much good as getting mad at water for being wet. It's two sides of the same coin. Devoting energy to positive change, which you are, without wasting it on something that is beyond your control.

[@aninterestingname8893]

Genuinely life changing video. I'd always felt frustrated and even furious after I had CBT sessions, now I'm diagnosed with autism and on HRT and wouldn't you know it, not suffering constantly really helps one to not suffer constantly. But I'd always felt that I had to be missing something in those sessions, like there was some good there - I think divorcing CBT from it's deeply capitalist uses can help to rediscover the actual self help in stoic philosophy, and your takes on the progressive side of stoicism really were interesting and useful. it comes down to, I think, making people feel powerless and then convincing them that that is strength, when in fact anger and frustration can be what causes us to change things, and we can change a lot more than we are told we can. So when my emotions are based on incorrect assumptions, I can be a stoic sage, and when my emotions are based on correct assumptions, I can be a revolutionary. I guess it's a bit rambly, but such a great video would even make a sage happy. ;)

[@theautisticguitarist7560]

I feel like, while it probs has it's merits, CBT can function like gas lighting to a lot of folks in need. I also realized that when I honored my sensory needs and didn't insist on making myself feel bad on purpose, I was actually relaxed and calm for once!

[@sbraypaynt]

Don’t be too hasty to throw your individuality away and live your entire life by the dictation of another. No different to swearing by a religion, you are comprised of all that you take in, don’t limit yourself to one avenue of thinking for its convenience.

[@mailam8846]

The start of this made it sound like a CBT joke

[@superdrwholock]

@@theautisticguitarist7560 nailed it, I've been feeling like that ever since I got CBT as a kid, left me feeling like I was just broken (I have autism too and relate to the commenter). Thanks for putting it in smarter words than I could haha

[@theautisticguitarist7560]

@@superdrwholock were all taught to toughen up, and never to give ourselves what we want. It's a rough journey, but remember they are wrong, you are worth it.

[@orCane]

As a theologian, I super appreciate your discussion on stoic physics and the brief "bible studies tube". I knew logos was a term used in greek philosophy, but had no idea how directly John the Evangelist was adressing stoicism. Please never hesitate to add context that makes it easier to understand our own time.

[@whatabouttheearth]

Essentially ancients didn't understand what oxygen was and developed a ton of ideas like 'spirit', prana, chi, ka etc in the meantime and created a plethora of "life force" ideas, all of which were wrong. Also, as she said, "like Seneca said, you shouldn't beat your slaves"...🙄 "Slaves be good to your masters and masters be good to your slaves" - Jesus Christ

[@metesinan]

I don’t usually comment on any content on any social media platform but this channel has grown really dear to my heart every video is so well made and it s never just a textbook explanation of ideas but always a deeper understanding of these ideas that are talked about here this one video was more informative and thought provoking than 2 years of highschool philosophy and history education in turkey amazing workkk

[@PhilosophyTube]

Aww, thank you!

[@jvanputten9669]

I feel acomplished when mommy called me clever for recognizing CBT in the description of stoicism 🥺♥️

[@dmvmeu7140]

Haha I love that

[@stalfithrildi5366]

I was prepped for this when the Serenity Prayer was mentioned but equally pleased cos it meant I was paying attention

[@arlequinelunaire418]

My basic takeaway with Stoicism is that it can be helpful and reassuring, but is also very situational and shouldn't be treated as a one-size-fits-all solution to life's problems, despite it originally hyping itself up as such. I already felt that before I watched this video, but definitely felt reinforced in that belief afterwards

[@nihalh7601]

The modern interpretation of stoicism is a one-size-fits-all. You see a problem, you actually examine it before responding to it (if there is time.).You remind yourself that all of this will end. You learn to live and love the suffering that is needed. You develope the wisdom to understand what suffering is needed and what suffering demands courage to react. You learn to develope that courage. You try remain just to yourself and others. These are the tenets. I fail to see how this would be a bad philosophy for any person in any situation.

[@greed9775]

@@nihalh7601consider this: we aren’t robots

[@mars6935]

@@nihalh7601 The weakest points of stoicism comes from its rigidity and overapplication. Ancient stoicism strove towards virtue- alignment with nature- a sort of universal truth. Modern stoicism replaces the universe with 'reason' which is more subjective than the previous keystone and goes against the original intentions of the philosophy. Half formed dogma being carried out militantly in an evolving world can't be sustained in every sphere of life reasonably (lol). That's not to say that stoicism does not offer incredible comfortable in certain situations though. It helps develop self-discipline and reaffirms self autonomy. I just believe that it's a practice that's better suited to internal reflection/self help than interpersonal conflicts

[@theeternalgus9119]

​@@greed9775beep beep bop bop

[@OldSchoolLPsGames]

@@nihalh7601 The first problem is, that's certainly not how most people seem to be "doing" stoicism. Most people would say that stoicism leaves no room for outrage at social injustice, for instance. That would mean that your emotions are in control of you, which is in opposition to stoicism. But sometimes outrage is the right answer, because it's what forces others into action with you. But even if we assume everyone will apply stoicism as you laid it out, consider people stuck in "impossible" situations. Maybe a child who is in an abusive home and doesn't know how to get help. What does stoicism do for them? Help them accept the abuse because to their eyes there is no other way and this is part of that "necessary suffering"? How are they going to find the courage to change their situation if their initial assumption is that it cannot be changed? There are also those who because of their brain chemistry have an altered view of the world or are actually unable to control their emotions. Those people usually need someone from their lives to step in and force them in the direction of help - go to the doctor, or even force them into a psych hold if they're a danger. Left alone with stoicism, those people wouldn't even be able to apply it. If they could, it might even reinforce their delusions. Stoicism has the base assumption that you are capable of accurately perceiving the world. If you can't, then stoicism doesn't work. I maintain that there is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all solution to anything. There are no "cure-alls". There are always fringe exception cases to any philosophy or remedy. That doesn't mean a particular philosophy is bad, or that it hasn't greatly improved many people's lives. Stoicism isn't bad, and it has been helpful to many people. It's just not the right answer for everyone.

[@same1402]

I genuinely love this channel. Not only because it is very fun and educational...but because this feels like a safe space and a place to learn without feeling misunderstood. It is also incredibly inspiring to see how Abigail is thriving since start of her transition. It makes me so hopeful and happy❤ much love!!

[@StuntpilootStef]

I totally agree with the criticism of CBT. It didn't work for me either, I had to go to schema therapy where you DO actually look at the causes. Because this way I could finally realise that it really wasn't my fault that I was behaving this way, I was conditioned to do so by my environment. And that what was done to me wasn't ok. Only then did I get out of it.

[@Marianne019]

As a Greek, I was judging Abigail's Greek and then she slammed me with her "ουδεις εκων αμαρτανει". Applying some ice on that burn 😂

[@vamper5247]

Χεχε, τουλάχιστον έχει το γνώθι σαυτόν...

[@smugless191]

What did she say?

[@fey___]

@@smugless191 No one is evil by choice

[@vizjim2]

As someone with a little Latin and less Greek, I experienced that same burn.

[@tinyrabbit]

I came here to say this same thing. I was called out in real time 😂

[@RaineInChaos]

As a bit of an Epicurean, I feel both excited and nervous for this video. Stoicism is having a real (weird) modern revival with people who mostly seem to think that virtue is a pretty inconsequential part of it except as a means to an end (of happiness or self-actualization, etc)

[@Ribeanie]

Much like my little pony it's not the source material that's bad, it's the fans

[@MemeSupreme69]

The virgin "just pretend your feelings aren't real" Stoic vs the chad "drink wine and eat cheese with your friends" Epicurean

[@ashtabarbor3346]

Just to be clear, could you give an example? Also I would like to hear which parts of Epicureanism you identify with and which parts you don't. Would be cool to have this type of discussion.

[@ahlimahs]

Broicism is not stoicism

[@captainroberts6318]

​@@ahlimahs one true stoic

[@grahamblue61]

I'm so glad you brought up CBT, I'm a teenager whose done CBT and is into philosophy (evidently) and I immediately saw the parallels between CBT and stoicism. I'll be honest, though, CBT really didn't help me: I got better therapy from my dad. The main issue I find with it is the fact that if you are marginalised, actually, a lot of anxiety is justified on some level. I think a better way to look at and manage these feelings is to accept that yes, the world isn't great for many, but don't let that get in the way of trying to change it and still enjoying things. Not perfect obviously but it helps. I do find it useful to take elements of stoicism and try to adapt/live them out, though. Loved this video, thank you so much, and the production is amazing!

[@SomeoneBeginingWithI]

The aproach of recognising that things aren't great, and choosing to live your life anyway and find ways to feel fullfilled is basically ACT (acceptance and commitment therapy). If you want to get back into therapy at some point you might find that aproach helpful. (I have had CBT myself and know what you mean about it being pretty rubish if your problems are related to being marginalised. My partner is currently having ACT and is finding it very helpful.)

[@laurenceroberts5239]

I had the therapy and was told they couldn't teach it to me as I already thought in CBT (possibly stoic ?) terms. It is a balance as always, there are actions, influenced by thought, environment, social, culture etc . Sometimes the framework you use and believe to be who you are , is either worn out or broken. It's yen time to change one or more of the aspects of where you are.

[@grahamblue61]

@@SomeoneBeginingWithI Yeah, I find ACT really interesting but don't know loads about it. My mum's a psychologist and was talking to me about it the other day and it sounded like a much better approach for me. Thanks! :)

[@majaherold1325]

Yeah, I've also had my struggles with CBT. I've only done it at a clinic for a couple of weeks at a time and I really felt it's limitations there. At the moment I have the luxury to chose between a therapist who does CBT and a therapist who does depth psychology (kinda more like psychoanalysis) and I would have to stick with the 'school of therapy ' in order for insurance to cover it (I wouldn't be able to change directions halfway through or something). I like the CBT therapist more on a personal note than I like the other, but I really don't know what to do or which one to choose now.

[@yuratchkaplisetskys3063]

I personally found CBT a pretty discouraging experience, because it felt like my emotions were being dismissed just for the sake of relieving my symptoms. It was like I was putting a tiny bandaid on a very, very, deep wound that was slowly sapping away at my will to live. I personally am finding IFS therapy really useful. Generally experiential and/or compassion-centred therapies have been really healing for me. I wish you the best of luck on your healing journey 💚 Take care!

[@Elemental-Phoenix]

Stoicism saved my life as I was basically alone during my time at a Christian college and going home to my Christian parents, surrounded by those who would immediately ostracize me if I were to come out as myself. Marcus Aurelius’ writings kept me alive long enough to get my adhd diagnosis, and later start HRT. That said, he was also tremendous idiot. His idea of living in the moment alone is great when everything sucks, but as someone who’s now just experiencing some level of self actualization I don’t understand it anymore. Like, I got shit to do and I’m capable of it now. And so does everyone around me. And we’re all in this shit together. And we’re gonna make it work. Basically as I get further away from the Dark Dysphoria Days I become less Stoic and more Existentialist.

[@genericname3206]

HRT?!...oh boi 🫤

[@deprogramme369]

@@genericname3206boosted🫡 thx

[@_Sloppyham]

@@genericname3206 oh no, therapy! The horror

[@genericname3206]

@@_Sloppyham I mean therapy would have stopped it going onto HRT

[@_Sloppyham]

@@genericname3206 HRT is therapy, it’s literally in the name lol. You’re using the same logic as the conversion therapy used: ignore the data and try to force people to conform to our expectations.

[@blablablair1]

At my most egg form I read a lot of stoic philosophy and other therapies to help me control my emotions and inner turmoil. Turns out that letting go of control and transitioning was way more beneficial to my mental health and happiness.

[@erwin669]

That's kinda what happened to me too. I think the thing that caused me to adapt the more submissive "I should just accept being unhappy" brand of stoicism was my upbringing in the church. When I started to actually question why I wasn't happy even though I was doing "what I wanted to do with my life" is when my egg started slowly cracking. Going on HRT helped me with my emotions because it helped me to realize that being unfeeling about things wasn't the most healthy way to go about things.

[@laurelgardner]

Same. After decades of failure to achieve the mental discipline yo be emotionally-regulated and happy, I discovered that what I actually needed was HRT to get my brain the correct balance of neurotransmitters.

[@secrecyunit2985]

Me: Omg this is totally like CBT Abigail: If you're especially clever this overlaps with CBT Me: *Gasps in Greek*

[@TheStoicPath-t9r]

Absolutely! The connections between cognitive behavioral techniques and this content are fascinating. It really enhances our understanding of behaviors. If you enjoy diving into psychology and its applications, you'll definitely find more engaging content on similar themes over at my place!

[@Grounded_Gravity]

I'm a counseling intern - I personally think that CBT can be useful for initially lowering symptoms and learning to tune in to yourself and alter your self-talk, but if you there can be enormous value in eventually doing the deeper (and more emotional 😉) healing work of looking at the source of the problem, reparenting yourself, reprocessing, and learning some self-compassion. This can be *such* a gamechanger if you have the resources for it and can find the right therapist for this work. Self-love is a skill you can learn. You can learn how to get in touch with your authentic self. You can tend to the parts of you that freak out - they are probably trying to protect you the best way they know how, and they could use your care and attention. I just wanted to put out some hope and encouragement to get into therapy if anyone needed it.

[@sarahoshea9603]

Is it possible to do this stuff on your own? Or figure it out? Or do you rly need that other person 🤔🙁

[@Grounded_Gravity]

@@sarahoshea9603 I do recommend that, if you can, you bring on a therapist - your progress will probably be faster as you will have a trained professional to guide you through the process and teach you skills, perspectives, and ideas you might not have known. However, if that's not an option you can still make some progress on your own for sure. You'd just have to be careful to vet your sources as there are always shady figures out there trying to make a buck. You can read about CBT as well as deeper work like IFS, reparenting, attachment, family systems/childhood trauma, and even psychodynamic stuff, and you can get a lot of that through your library.

[@josawesome1]

@@Grounded_Gravity Adding on - DBT is also a super helpful School of thought, which is similar but not entirely the same as CBT. I was in an intensive outpatient program that taught a combination of CBT for thought challenging and DBT for more distress tolerance and radical acceptance and coping with trauma, among other things. There are many to try out and many that have both valuable and not-valuable elements. Also side note - CBT is not recommended for active distress or moments of high emotion. You can’t really stop to assess the situation clearly if you are in the thick of the emotion, the brain literally is not in the right setting. That’s why distress tolerance and mindfulness are so important

[@marcussherlock6318]

Unfortunately I've always found the process of finding a good therapist to be akin to getting onto the NASA astronaut program as a penniless foreigner without a degree. In theory it's possible, if the stars are right and the Great Old Ones plunge from world to world through the sky, but planning your life around it is tragically optimistic. And every failed attempt comes with a huge financial and psychological cost that cannot realistically be borne. Certainly not repeatedly.

[@MajaBiana]

I've been in a lot of therapy over the years (mostly because of the emotional abuse and neglect I suffered during childhood) and I found that CBT only scated on the surface so no matter how much I changed how I thought about things, my trauma continued to resurface + I ended up staying in contact with abusive family members and friends for at least a decade longer than 'necessary'. I was even almost diagnosed with treatment resistant/chronic depression, because I just didn't get better. All this didn't change until I found a great therapist who'd studied Jungian psychoanalysis and was more open to and trained in working with trauma and going deeper that I got better and I haven't been depressed since. Yes, I've been seeing her for more than a decade now which I know CBT claims is far too much, but it's actually making a difference and when we work on something it doesn't just get hidden away for a while to reappear at a later point - it gets *healed*. CBT has useful elements imo - like knowing that your feelings and thoughts aren't always right, for example - but to me it should only be a smaller part of therapy, not all of it.

[@judeleewrites]

2:15 "and other minor characters from House of the Dragon" ABI I CHOKED

[@PhilosophyTube]

Hee hee hee

[@carolinaaa99]

I have long struggled with identifying as a female Stoic given the barriers you mentioned, so I am very grateful you touched on them. In my experience, the 4 stoic virtues (moderation, courage, wisdom, and justice) were the north stars I followed whenever I felt lost and didn't have a strong sense of my own moral compass. I think this philosophy can be applied by everyone, no matter their age, gender, and background, but there is a great feeling of estrangement that comes with identifying as part of this community.

[@mohinish2273]

Pardon me but I don't think stoicism is suitable for women. The stuff about controlling emotions is strangely told to every man in each and every culture,but women do have the freedom to express their feelings much more than us . I think the fundamentals of stoicism don't align with feminine virtues.

[@magdaamanuel5692]

@@mohinish2273 stoicism is for everyone. The principles of stoicism is something, everyone can benefit from. Various therapies such as CBT and DBT use stoic principles, that have benefited patients (men and women). In order to function as an adult in a society, everyone has to some extent, regulate their emotions. Men do have a have lot of freedom for express their emotions(especially anger), except for vulnerable emotions like sadness or crying.

[@carolinaaa99]

@@mohinish2273 I understand where you're coming from, but in my opinion Stoicism is not about repressing emotions the way men are unfortunately taught to repress since childhood, it's about learning to ride the wave of unfortunate things that are inevitably going to happen in our lives without us losing our minds. It is a tool to help us reframe our view of the world, empower us to have control over our reality, and ease our anxieties. I don't see how this is gender-exclusive. When women can't manage their emotions, they're labelled "hysterical", when they do they're viewed as "masculine"...

[@mohinish2273]

@@carolinaaa99 thanks,but I still do think that women should have much more freedom than men to let their emotions loose.

[@carolinaaa99]

@@mohinish2273 I totally get that, but my main comment was not about comparing men's and women's abilities to let their emotions loose, the conversation is about whether women can benefit from Stoicism, in my experience they absolutely can and should be welcome to. Your first comment (ie people dictating who benefits or not from practicing Stoicism) reflects exactly why I haven't felt welcome in this space.

[@larsegholmfischmann6594]

I have had mixed feelings about stoicism, and ironically also CBT not knowing the connection between them. I felt this way because it seemed like it was telling me not to feel what I felt, that just by the magic of positively reframing my traumas, they would all but disappear. Today I know differently. I will probably never be a stoic for a number of other reasons, but I can better appreciate the thoughts behind it (barring all the problematic stuff).

[@Nakam459]

sounds like you may like ACT therapy model.

[@BriarLeaf00]

CBT can be ok for some forms of trauma and anxiety. For more serious trauma, it can often do very little. For instance, using CBT therapy won't help much if you are constantly in situations where real, physical trauma is a daily reality.

[@TryinaD]

@@BriarLeaf00 agreed! I tried cbt when I was in a bad situation that couldn’t just be reframed

[@rikiba851]

@@BriarLeaf00 CBT is an excellent tool that can be used to address specifically the stupid little lies that our brain tells us. It's a tool that I believe everyone can and should use at some points. But it is ... just ... a tool and is far more limited than it's widespread application in mental health treatment (certainly here in the UK) suggests. I've been assigned CBT treatment on multiple occasions, and all of those occasions, bar one (the one in which I internalised and understood the tool), were utterly pointless. How many times are you going to teach me how to use a screwdriver before you acknowledge that it isn't the only thing needed to rebuild a derelict house?

[@laurelgardner]

​@@TryinaD same. It made so many things worse and more entrenched.

[@spaceageflop3974]

I was so insane to learn Latin for 7 years at school and even chose it as a main course at the end, we had Seneca and Stoicism and I hated it with a passion. But now thanks to you I understand the appeal of it and that there is more than just Senecas view. Also your Siopi Interlude hit hard to home as I work for a digital therapeutics company and I often have second thoughts about it, even if it is not meant to replace therapy but only to support it. At the moment it feels more and more capitalist and less helpful to patients.

[@emilyshanahan7647]

The name Siope is also a joke... it's Ancient Greek for "shut up".

[@MensHominis]

_"For we English [people], being far northerly, do not open our mouths in the cold air wide enough."_ -- John Milton (1644) about English folks' pronunciation of Latin No offense, I love this video, I've just found that quote and laughed my ass off.

[@dia9221]

so real

[@peenyweeny3834]

i had 6 years of high school latin and had stoicism at the end too (& only senecas view) but i actually enjoyed it because the teacher was so passionate about it :v

[@judedoesclassics9169]

I am in my 11th year of Latin (doing a masters) and I have never gone near Seneca. Wonder if it’d be any fun.

[@GeeBeeOhThree]

A point that really stuck out to me that I'm surprised i havent heard mentioned before: the directive was "do not be *overwhelmed* by strong emotion" and not do not *feel* steong emotion." I've always thought of Stoicism as "theres a time and a place" taken to an extreme. I'm reminded of epic heroes holding back armies while comrades fall around them with seemingly no affect on them, holding a strong front for the survivors until letting go when alone.

[@user-xsn5ozskwg]

Congrats on 10 years of PT! As someone who considers himself rather sensitive stoicism has always struck a bad chord to me because it's never made sense to divorce one's feelings from their judgements. There are lots of cases where we should try but our feelings aren't unknowable, illogical things, just complicated and often hard to articulate. I do like the idea of assessing where those strong emotions come from, and the acceptance that many are self-imposed or at least perpetuated. But I think there's a reason why the philosophy has a larger following of people who feel like they belong to the ruling group of society. When the world already grants you so much power and authority there's not much more you can control, especially directly, than your own feelings.

[@MrTaxiRob]

I'm sad all the time (PDD) and I had an abusive relationship that affected me for years afterward (my partner had BPD.) CBT helped me realize all of it for what it was, and helped me get rid of the unreasonable guilt I felt about everything, all the time. I'm still sad, but I know there's no "real" cause and I don't deserve to suffer poor treatment from anyone else. I started watching this show shortly before Abigail revealed her relationship abuse. I saw her go all in on the show like never before, culminating in her public transition. It's been inspiring for me, a clinically depressed cis male. I don't know if a relationship is in my future as I'm getting older and really don't see it happening, but I've found that my work situation has improved dramatically because I've found the strength to stand up for myself. Oh yeah, and I'm constantly agitating all my coworkers to do the same. To Abi, thank you for pouring your life out onto the Internet, it matters to more than just other trans people. With over a million subs, I'm sure I'm not the only "straight guy" here. Also, I'm getting evicted, too and it sucks. I'm moving back across the country because I'm over suffering in California. I hope you, too, are moving up, not just moving out.

[@dalailarose1596]

Hey guy, I really hope your life gets better after your move, eviction is so scary.

[@michalandrejmolnar3715]

Don't forget to agitate for public housing!

[@wildfire9280]

@@michalandrejmolnar3715 and land value capture

[@MrTaxiRob]

@@michalandrejmolnar3715 every fucking day comrade

[@MrTaxiRob]

@@dalailarose1596 thanks, Abi is getting the boot as well and I suspect it's for the same reasons

[@nujuat]

As a physics PhD student, it seems like a lot of these ideas about pnuemos are pretty similar to ideas about what we now call entropy.

[@FacundoFerrara]

It's a completely different framework of thinking, though. If pneumos is good and more pneumos is good, then the ultra-rich are super-good.

[@Azzyzazz]

I was thinking the same, but substituted pneumos with 'energy' and it largely checked out. They weren't super far off honestly

[@ThePrimevalVoid]

Well, negative entropy.

[@nujuat]

@@ThePrimevalVoid or I guess low entropy? It's like we're playing golf, less is better

[@leinsaluja4694]

As an also physics PhD student, I disagree.

[@Hdidbi_3049]

Stoicism helped me a lot in high school, I was a perfectionist and had a fear of failure. 16-year-old me reading some books about stoicism led to me literally never being overwhelmed or feeling like a failure when it comes to my academic achievements and setbacks. and now I'm in uni hihi.

[@forestsandlace5996]

I know a vomitorium was actually an architectural element to distribute crowds from an amphitheatre, but your "You too can take the tradwife movement to its logical conclusion by installing a vomitorium" was such an excellent line that I have been cackling about it and sharing your video (which is, I might add, excellent!) with friends to show them your video.

[@emilyrln]

Ooh dang, I thought it was a puking room 😂 lmao thanks for the info

[@user-uv2cp1qd1j]

@@emilyrlnthe misconception comes from Vomit meaning leave or expel, more or less.

[@lindatheheathen]

I watched on Nebula. Fabulous. Watching again to feed the KZbin algorithm monster. And also because Abi's always worth a second or third watch. ♥

[@Herchenroeder]

The crossover from Stoicism to CBT became clear to me a few years back when I also left an abus1ve relationship (and by the grace of the Algorithm stumbled on one of your videos in a perfectly timed moment), and the exercise of interrogating my emotional responses has been an absolute game changer across my life. Not least of which because I was able to go back in time, mentally, and ask "where did this idea come from?" as you might say, and also because while "your feelings are valid" remains a true statement, "your feelings are backed by reality" is up for debate! Peeling back all the layers to find the source of a feeling and choose, actively, to accept it or redirect it is amazing.

[@ibis0921]

That distinction you made is so important. Your feelings are valid. You are having them. But then to go that extra step and say, but where are these feelings coming from? What do they mean to me? What is my experience around them? Do they match up to the experiences or am I imprinting other assumptions and meanings that are interpretation rather than presentation? That’s so powerful to find your way there.

[@tariqepstein8989]

Read up on REBT / Rational Emotive Behavior therapy. Albert Ellis, the creator of REBT, one of the earliest forms of CBT, said he was inspired by Stoicism

[@emmanarotzky6565]

What would be the judgment behind a fear? Not a fear of something you believe is dangerous, just a fear of something random. For instance I’m afraid of mold (including non-toxic kinds) and I know people who are afraid of (non-venomous) spiders and snakes. There seems to be no judgment at all behind fears like that because we DON’T believe those things can harm us, we’re just afraid of them. I’m very aware that moldy bread can’t harm me, arachnophobes are very aware that common house spiders can’t harm them, etc. Are those just evolutionary instincts so old that there’s no individual judgment involved, just ‘your ancestors survived because they avoided something like that while some of their friends didn’t’?

[@franjk7114]

I insist: this has been one of the most enjoyable KZbin experiences I’ve had. Plus, your thoughts on women and stoicism were so refreshing. Happy birthday to your channel🎉🎉

[@selkiejuice]

the Siopi bit made me laugh so hard. So accurate down to the shade of pink, and really up to date with the problem of corporate AI projects we see popping up all over recently. Excellent video as always

[@ravenoferin500]

Got a smile from this one. Went the Stoicism route during my teenage years and while it helped for a few years I hit the passivity bump. My response was "fine I can't have things for myself but I can make others happy by helping." I can make a wave even if the ripples never return to me. Long story short, tapping into the feels again and fighting hard for things. I feel less tired and spent and have myself on a track to have somethings to look forward to for myself. Have the most wonderful healthy love with me for this time. I've never felt better and look forward to the adventures ahead. Thanks Abby for all your work it has helped me more times than I'd care to admit.

[@MossyMozart]

@Raven of Erin - Lovely!

[@askeladden450]

Can you elaborate what you mean by 'passivity bump'?

[@deanodog3667]

Stoicism is wishful thinking and make believe, trys to convince that all the vicissitudes of fate and fortune can be conquered with virtue , its bullshit , read what bertrand russell and Nietzsche had to say about it , power and virtue are definitely not synonymous!!

[@ravenoferin500]

I used to work very much in the moment. Work more and don't cause a fuss. Do what needs to be done now. Push down any emotions that got in the way. Took up smoking when things got too much. In general stunted my potentials. Intense passion is a part of life. Anger, joy, love, sadness, on so on are all viable things to feel. Repression and forced passivity leads to just constant anxiety that becomes the new norm. The passivity problem. Accepting things as they are without question or action.

[@askeladden450]

@@ravenoferin500 i think what you deacribed is the opposite of stoicism. Stoicism is all about being pro active and being honest about your emotions. Many people mistake it to be about 'suppressing emotions', when infact, it is about rationalizing out negative emotions. Negative emotions are nature's crude way of communicating with others and asking for help. They may not always be the most rational response. Example: Your partner has a habit that drives you crazy. What shoulf be your response to it? 1. Being passive and saying nothing. Holding the anger in. Because of the anger it causes you, it just lowers the standard of your life, and one day, all that anger will come steaming out at once. This is one of the worst response. 2. Expressing your anger everytime they do it. Ruins both your and their day. A person is unlikely to change their habits when being told through anger. Again, not the best option. 3. Rationalize. Everyone has atleast a few bad habits. Me included. I should first try to do everything in my power, and explain their bad habit to them and try to help them overcome it. If they do, great. If they don't, no one is perfect. Think about all the things they bear about you. And then monitor your emotions honestly. Do you still get angry? If yes, then you cant rationalize their behavior. You have done everything in your power. Be pro active, and explain to them why this relationship isnt working, and leave. THIS is what stoicism means.

[@ellencoleman4604]

CBT is the only therapy that works for me. I find it incredibly difficult to express how I'm feeling and often dont even recognise my own emotions (it's possibly a nuerodiverse issue). Working through the process in such a structured and paced out way helped me so much and gave me the proper tools to cope with what are in fact quite strong emotions. I think the obvious conclusion with this stuff is just that people have different brain processes and therefore need different ways to manage themselves in life. It sounds like I strive for something similar to stoicism but thats because it's appropriate for my emotions - I have to think about them objectively to process them. Whereas I know some people have to express their feelings to process them, and thats fine too, just as long as they're not putting themselves in a position to hurt others.

[@moustachio05]

Cock and Ball Torture???

[@wildfire9280]

It sounds like a great option. But that begs the question; what do Mario and Luigi think of CBT?

[@seankelly378]

How does cock and ball torture help?

[@chengduan3639]

Hi Abigail! I don’t know if you can see this, but I want to express my appreciation deeply to you. I started following you around 3 years ago, I had no clue what should I do in life nor any directions to follow. But it was you who led me to philosophy, I was watching every single video of yours (and rewatching), I was deeply inspired and still am, and more importantly, philosophy has now become my life-long passion. Thank you for all you have done and for being such an inspiring figure for me. Happy for 10 years anniversary and your play!!!🎉

[@Mae_forrest]

Ill be honest, I did a very high squeal of joy when Abby quoted John 1 IN GREEK. It is one of my absolute favorite bits from the scriptures, and so much of this video spoke to my own area of expertise. Also, she gave voice to the very real criticisms that exist regarding gender, status and politics within the conversation of theology and classic philosophy. Kudos to you, Abby. Im glad you exist on this platform. As a fellow survivor of an abusive relationship, it gives my heart joy to see you thriving. 🎉

[@ArninoStorm]

While we miss your brother, I think we can all say you're doing a fantastic job taking over after his tragic accident (covered in patreon-exclusive episode of Well There's Your Problem).

[@narnigrin]

Ahahaha I love this take 😅 I laughed too much at that bit, too, because I used to be so confused - I came across Philosophy Tube just about a couple videos after Identity but for no particular reason that was one of the last videos I watched during my binge, and I was like "ok so there's a girl, and... oh over here there's a guy, ... so the channel has two hosts, yeah? ... Wait no, ... but they look fairly similar what is going on" until I eventually got to it and the penny in this obtuse wee brain finally dropped. Anyway now my egg has cracked too lmao sooooo

[@ArninoStorm]

@@narnigrin Getting transed by watching philosophy tube, my god the terfs were right! ;)

[@szthbnsfprdctn]

who needs to spend money on marketing with an audience like this😌

[@theautisticguitarist7560]

@@narnigrin Me: "I'm just so happy for Sophie From Mars and Abby for coming out! I'm just a cis straight guy who's super super super excited about them coming out!" Me 2 Years Later as an Enby: "Oh."

[@VeganAtheistWeirdo]

Congratulations on 10 creative years! 💜 _"The Romantic Objection"_ is viscerally familiar to anyone like me who's spent a lifetime on antidepressants (in my case) and other psychiatric drugs. It's one force that compels many of us with mood and other mental health disorders to go off meds. When I was very young and had just learned about Buddhism in a World Religions class at community college, I thought The Middle Way sounded like a great philosophy, particularly in comparison to the prescriptive dogma of Abrahamic religions. But after a few more years on SSRIs, I recognized that as a reality, it would be peaceful _and terrible._ Having experienced the void of emotion that can happen at high therapeutic doses, _Nirvana_ sounds hellish. Imagine being trapped inside a living meat prison, the dial of personhood, _me_-ness, turned all the way down to 0. I _missed_ feeling sad, angry, joyous, anxious, anything. It is an intrinsically nihilistic void, and does not inspire productivity, to put it mildly. Fortunately, I was able to change meds, and while I will always be _muted_ in my emotional response as long as I am treating the depression, the degree is much less.

[@SusCalvin]

The main thing I remember from some of the historical buddhist sects is that they can create an elite faith. There's people on the inside of the sects who can live the virtuous life trying to free themselves from strife and the world, and the folks on the outside who can give part of their work and cash to maintain that but shouldn't think they can benefit from it more than indirectly.

[@christiantaylor1495]

I refused SSRIs and got out of depression without them in 2 years through stoicism and manosphere philosophy

[@maxkassel1765]

What you described doesn't sound like enlightenment, it sounds like anhedonia, a symptom of severe depression amongst other things.

[@VeganAtheistWeirdo]

@@christiantaylor1495 ChatGPT, is that you?

[@hibachimk240]

@@christiantaylor1495 "Doctors hate those tricks : learn seven easy methods to get rid of your depression (fourth will surprise you)!"

[@CreativeUsernameEh]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH I JUST READ THE COMMUNITY UPDATE! Congratulations on your role in Baldur's Gate 3!! Edit: 3 Weeks later I finally found your character. Nocturne! The interactions with Shadowheart were very sweet. But also sad: Never settle for Shar's philosophy! ...Could I give you a Lathander pamphlet, please?

[@AlexMaskill]

I feel like this very good video plays quite nicely with a thing I heard in the recently-started psychoanalysis podcast Ordinary Unhappiness, where they're talking about the usefulness but insufficiency of CBT, where, as they put it, CBT will get you out of bed...but what then? If our psychological particulars go deeper into ourselves and further out from ourselves, hyper-focusing our attention on jury-rigging a subset of our thought processes to avoid short circuits presents a very impoverished sphere of concern for dealing with our minds and our selves. As the video points out, it can keep us productive (and can be partially automated by those who would like us to stay productive), but forgoing more rigorous solutions to psychic pain can mean forgoing avenues to genuinely better emotional lives. This is also a problem that, as the video makes clear, can be levelled at the very vulgarised "Business Secrets of the Pharaohs"-style version of stoicism being peddled in the airport bookshops and on gribdset podcasts.

[@Nakam459]

I have had a lot of bad therapist's since I was 8 so I pushed it away during most of my life the therapist who really helped me besides my dad who is a licensed therapist . is my therapist who practices ACT therapy which has changed my life sadly she started doing private marriage and family therapy . I saw her at county health from 24-25. really helped me I need to see a new therapist I am in limbo. I can't put it all on my dad but dang he has done so much . I need a proper therapist because it is kinda not recommended!!!lol

[@val.628]

This is so well put. I think one problem is that stoicism suggests that the only way to lead a “good life” is to essentially make yourself happy via actively sort of policing your thoughts and beliefs and re-working them. Sometimes your beliefs are correct, though, and your strong reaction (which may be negative) is warranted, and thus the “rational” thing is to feel the strong emotion. Climate change is horrifying. The death of a loved one is horrifying. Experiencing the fullness of that emotion is not irrational, and distancing yourself from it might help you cope, but ultimately the terrible thing still happened, or is still happening, and that matters too. Stoicism sort of forgets what we owe one another, I think? Abigail mentioned the bit about putting the collective first as being part of stoicism, part of its view of human nature, but ultimately stoicism assumes that each individual is responsible for their own happiness, which leads to the conclusion that I do not owe it to you to create a better world because your happiness is your responsibility. I cannot make you happy, and thus I need not try to make the world better. This seems to me to be what led Stoics to feel few misgivings about subjugating others, and what makes stoicism particularly appealing to people in positions of power (eg. it’s becoming popular among misogynist men today) - my job is to make me happy, their job is to make themselves happy. It’s not someone else’s situation (which I may be helping to create or continue) that makes them unhappy, it’s their judgements. We do not owe them equality. The only thing I need give anyone is philosophy, reason, logic. The tools of “correct” reasoning which they can use to sort out their unhappiness for themselves and “live better” (for women, better serve their husbands). Stoicism can certainly help an individual to find peace and keep moving, but if we rely too heavily on stoicism alone, we forget about the big goals. Equality, justice, freedom. Those should be virtues. Those should be discussed in therapy, too. Not just “how can you accept your reality and keep going” but “what kind of person do you want to be” and “what do you hope to accomplish with your life.” That stuff is what keeps me going, and it’s what my first therapist asked me that led to my first eureka moment where suddenly I saw all these open doors in front of me. “Who do you admire, and what do they do that you admire? Could you do that? Could you help others, speak out against injustice, work to make the world a better place?” It helped me find purpose. CBT can help you keep moving, but goals and values are what guide what you move towards.

[@moonyasnow36]

When I was younger I used to have conversations with my parents where they'd basically use the techniques of stoicism (I don't know if they even knew it was stoicism) against me to say that my feelings about something they did that hurt me weren't warranted and it was my responsibility to deal with them on my own, and refusing to take any responsibility for the hurt they caused me. They did that when I was as young as 10. Possibly even younger. It really warped my view of what 'objective reality' even was, planting this idea in my head that I'm always overreacting and freaking out about things that don't actually matter, and I still feel unable to trust my own feelings. So I personally have a bit of trouble accepting stoicism-- I was never _allowed_ to feel hurt when I was younger, so I (and them) just gaslit myself into thinking I was being unreasonable (like it's an inherently bad thing) and too sensitive-- Narcissistic Abuse basically, and anyway it made me develop Borderline Personality Disorder. When I feel something big I usually first try to take some time to myself, like going into my room or a bathroom, and let myself either cry, or listen to some angry or calming or sad music, or rant to my friends to get the worst of the feelings out. Then once I've calmed a bit I examine it and ask myself 'why am I feeling this way-- was it something someone said/did/reacted to me? Is it because of something I'm stressed about? Is it a trauma response? etc.' And then when I've identified the feeling and why it happened I try to cheer myself up by focusing on something else I know I like and makes me happy, or if I can't feel happy at the moment I let myself sulk a bit and wait a while for the bad feels to go away. And if I was having a difficult conversation or even argument with someone that I walked away from as a result of the big feels, I go back and try to explain why I left and what I was feeling. It's not perfect because I sometimes fall back into the pitfall of wondeing 'was I in the wrong in this situation' even when the other party was the one who hurt me and I tried my best to understand and compromise with them, because I still can't trust my own feelings. What's helped me there is my friends affirming my feelings. It's made me much more able to let myself feel without-- or well not entirely without, but at least with less-- guilt. Now, once I understand my emotions and why I'm feeling the way I am I try to say 'I'm allowed to feel this way'. But I do still struggle with recognizing when I shouldn't need to accept something. But hey, that's what an entire childhood of being conditioned to always believe what any figure who could possibly be an authority does to you.

[@blouburkette]

This. I've not been diagnosed with bpd, but I was told that "I had bad days because of my bad attitude." I was bullied a lot and a lot of the adults in my life made me feel like it was my fault and I needed to "just not react." Only in the last year from being on meds (Thank you Abigail for your transhumanism vid. Really turned me around on meds for mental health). I now see where and when I am not my best and can make improvements on that and I'm much more confident in telling others when they have hurt me and why I feel that way. Abigail did a good job at explaining this and I actually found it easier to take the concepts and now I think I can digest it better. The two videos that she used as an example in the front half of the vid actually triggered me into black hole spirals when I watched them. I actually put off watching this video until I was in optimum headspace. It worked and I loved it.

[@Gryf_]

There is definitely a subcategory of insecure people who are using stoicism (or its label at least) in a very toxic way.

[@maxbrown8044]

There is certainly a marked difference between feeling guilty about experiencing emotion and simply putting them in their proper place. Emotions are unreliable, not necessarily constructive, etc., but I agree that does not warrant feeling ashamed regarding them. It is healthy to feel, sublimate, and introspect, while it is obviously damaging to wallow excessively or to let emotion dictate one's perception of reality

[@Kaaosification]

It's not a "technique of stoicism" to tell someone that their feelings aren't warranted. Stoicism isn't about not feeling emotions it's about feeling them fully but not letting them dictate your thoughts actions towards harming yourself further. Stoics also continuously talk about being kind and tolerant towards other people. Marcus Aurelius has this matra "Strict with yourself, tolerant with others"

[@Desertfox18]

Stoicism states, be strict with yourself and be tolerant towards others; your parents did the exact opposite by being strict towards you and being unstrict to themselves.

[@DouglasWatt]

I struggled with puberty majorly, starting seeing a therapist in my teens, diagnosed with major depressive disorder, and life is every day a struggle. But Stoicism is how I've managed to stay off depressants and function in society even on my darkest days. Not the lower case stoic that people think means being un-emotional, but the big S one where you seek to center yourself in the reality of the world. It doesn't mean you don't try to make things better or be passive. The argument that so often gets overlooked in discussions of Stoicism is "when I sort life out into the things I can control and things I can't control, aren't there also things I could give up control over? Or conversely, things I don't currently control but should?" A Sage would, in my understanding, actively seek to understand if some of those uncontrolled things would be more rational if you took control over them. Or, if getting emotional issues over your attempts at controlling things, then perhaps there are things I should give up control of in order to life a happier, more rational life. This is, I think, the best way of not falling into the passivity trap, as passivity isn't rational. Though as someone with chronic major depression, I do appear quite passive as 90% of my daily mental fortitude is used just getting out of bed every day.

[@mightyelf2660]

You gotta do smth different you don’t wanna live like this forever. Search for alternative treatment for depression. Try shrooms…

[@DouglasWatt]

@@mightyelf2660 I would actually very much like to get in one of those shroom trials. But unfortunately I live in a country with very restrictive rules regarding drug accessibility, even for research purposes (I live in east Asia). Hopefully a trial will start up here soon and I can try to get in. I'm one of the unlucky types for whom marijuana triggers anxiety, irritation, and paranoia, so that's not on the table either.

[@yol_n]

@@DouglasWatt damn imagine if there wasn't antidrugs law so you being desperate go and smoke your friend's marijuana and just get all sort of panic attacks. I can't believe the antidrug law protected you!

[@silvius.7680]

The Star Wars theme during the Logos (Force) part, references like DBZ, the clothes, etc. The extra mile indeed. Great content!

[@yukpuddle]

I love how much care and detail you put into your closed captions! Why did your note about "this knowledge belongs to all of us" make me start crying in the club?

[@benjaminheaney3303]

As someone who has been educating myself in Stoicism since COVID, it's nice to hear a reiteration of the core values of the philosophy, and to see how much I have improved as a person. Great video!

[@DavidBarkland]

I think this video finally explained why stoicism and CB therapy hasn't allowed me to improve. Severe depression with psychosis symptoms and borderline personality disorder isn't something you can solve by deciding to feel and know differently - I do that constantly and instinctively when I'm off my medications, eternally rewriting and overthinking your emotions and memories without any connection to reality or control over it _is_ the problem, and deciding to just not care about losing touch with reality, health, and even your very self just isn't too helpful here. Thanks.

[@amazinggrapes3045]

Oh I felt this. I've been through the system for years and at some point realized the reason it wasn't working was because what I think or believe doesn't really change how I feel. My emotions are conditioned responses. I can't just tell my nervous system to stop.

[@Platypi007]

Congratulations on 10 years of this show and all the success you've had! I've only been following for maybe 3 years now, but I love everything I've seen here.

[@thetiniestleaf]

It’s only now, thanks to you, that I realize I’ve sort of been an unintentional stoicism practitioner in some regards. It’s good to be able to recontextualize the reality of the situation and help realign my judgments on events. It’s helped me avoid spiraling from the chaos that is living. But at the same time, I love that you pointed out the passivity that some people can fall into. I can accept that there’s little I can do to control the situation I find myself in. But that doesn’t mean I can’t do anything or that things shouldn’t be better.

[@alixdied4713]

I had CBT with an old classmate organised by my school. I enjoyed it a lot, but edmittedly it was mainly because it got me to befriend the classmate better and I got a quiet 1 hour "break" from the normal school hours. When it comes to the actual cbt... well. It obviously has benefits. It taught me some techniques to calm down and physical brain function related to anxiety and such.. but it always rubbed me the wrong way slightly that it doesn't acknowledge that some mental issues aren't fully controllable. I have sensory issues, trauma, anxiety attacks, panic attacks etc etc. Many things that are affected by external factors. It genuinely felt slightly demeaning to be told that my anxiety and stress to be boiled down to understand the reality and thinking of the situation correctly. It wasn't horrible or anything, it was mostly positive. But it was a small aspect that made it hard for me to connect to the exact material.

[@Civman-yr8lb]

Cock and Ball Torture did all that? Wow

[@mrfashionguy1]

Your school did cock & ball torture? 😳

[@SorowFame]

God I wish there was a different acronym for that.

[@lukeman9851]

Agreed. It's like going from relatives saying "well, have you tried not being depressed?" To a supposed professional saying "well, have you tried choosing not to be depressed?"

[@colter2320]

​@@lukeman9851 Dumb analogy. CBT is the only scientific paradigm in psychology and metanalysis proves it's actually capable of helping people, unlike other approaches in Psychology

[@chillsahoy2640]

The snippet from Mark Fisher reminded me of the societal structure in The Outer Worlds. Indentured workers are allowed to rent company-owned houses in the local slum, they get overworked, and are then encouraged to go to the local bar, where they can buy a brand of ale that literally makes them forget their troubles.

[@BlapwardKrunkle]

That’s straight out of the US treatment of Natives playbook, they would build drinking establishments dotted along Native trade routes to keep them sated and distracted while their land was taken out from under them.

[@addisonmoore2195]

happy ten years!!! your show is amazing and you provide such an incredible perspective to these conversations

[@sieda666]

Maybe for people who have more neurotypical compositions, stoicism has something to offer. For me, it's a recipe for isolation and negative thought spiraling. I've found my life and my ability to empathize with other has improved magnitudes when I communicate my emotions as they are experienced, rather than trying to put them through a program of critical analysis first. Maybe somewhat ironically that kind of distant self-analysis is influenced by stoicism, but there are so many points in the video I just wish I could raise a point of contention, or a "yes and", that I just I have to say it's not my thing.

[@majaherold1325]

Great perspective, I've kind of been suspecting that I'm not quite so neurotypical for a while now and maybe that explains why my gut reaction to stoicism is to be so wildly opposed to it.

[@LouseGrouse]

As someone currently on the journey to find out if i’m neurodivergent. Yeah this speaks to me. There’s absolutely value in this kind of philosophy, and in CBT, but it just. It doesn’t seem to fully click? Like. Maybe i’m not practicing enough but also. HHMMMMMMM???

[@plushoyo]

Love it; want more. I think there's untapped potential involving things like; Alexithymia, Zen Buddhism and what Elliot Sang calls "McMindfulness", maybe more of an examination of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, or stuff like that. Again, it's good; I just want more, because it was good.

[@Drilling4mana]

Great video as always! I've dealt with pretty severe depression for pretty much my whole life, and while I've never done Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, I have kind of adopted a lot of stoic principles when trying to deal with my powerful negative emotions, despite not knowing that's what they were. Unfortunately, with things being as bad politically as they are, I find I've retreated into those ideas for answers beyond just what's in my head and I feel like that's not a helpful or productive way to engage with the external world. Thanks for giving me a more workable idea of what this philosophy is so I can more ably sort out the good ways of using it to improve my life from the bad ways that don't contribute to a better world!

[@catherinecrawford2289]

That's cool that you are doing that, it does have some wonderful guides to live by and it's nice to see the presenter sort the wheat from the chaff.

[@aninterestingname8893]

Hey my laptop's kind of freaking out, sorry if you get a bunch of replies to this comment, they were meant to reply to a different one but keep showing up here and not getting deleted when I try :(

[@Drilling4mana]

@@aninterestingname8893 I don't have notifications turned on for replies to comments anyway, you're all good

[@PrimataFalante]

I signed on to Nebula just to see your play, and now I almost feel bad for paying so little for the incredible content. As soon as my finances allow, I'll become a patreon too. Thanks for shining so brightly.

[@sabrinabradley7513]

Abigail, from the bottom of my heart, from your early KZbin days… you have changed me and changed my life. Finding this channel is such a large part of my life story and personal growth. Thank you for existing and gifting me personally with your knowledge and effort. You made me a better person.

[@victoriandino]

Hey Abby, if you see this comment, I just want to say thanks for making these amazing videos. They’re so deep, yet comedic, and I haven’t seen anything that can compare to the quality and humor. You’ve really inspired me to explore my identity and beliefs, and I’ve even started writing a play! Keep being such an incredible and genuine person! I hope you have a great day!

[@AnUnseenRuler]

Yes! I love Abby in the most Stoic sense.

[@kj7067]

So lovely to hear you talk about the complications of researching ancient philosophy! I'm an ancient historian, and that part really gave me a 'yes, that's exactly how it is!' moment. And honestly, your pronunciation of Ancient Greek and Latin is great.

[@plushdragonteddy]

i personally agree with a lot of the comments (and obviously it was mentioned in the video as well) about how sometimes shitty circumstances will just make you upset, sometimes your judgement about how much it sucks is right, and you just gotta do your best to survive until your circumstances change. my therapist once offered me antidepressants, and i turned them down, not because i’m opposed to medication (on the contrary, i immediately pursued medication for my ADHD), but because i knew depression wasn’t my normal state of being. i wasn’t depressed because of a chemical imbalance, or even because of some other internal thing like negative self-talk; i was depressed because there was a pandemic and i missed my friends and the outdoors. antidepressants might have helped? maybe? but they wouldn’t have fixed the root issue, which was a deeply upsetting and dissatisfying life circumstance. i hadn’t been depressed before the pandemic, and i haven’t been depressed since i’ve been able to see my friends again. sometimes things just *are* that bad, and you need to let your feelings ride out and feel them fully. i do do a lot of introspection about why i feel how i do, and it often does result in me realizing some deeper truth about the thing and feeling better, but sometimes shit’s just bad!

[@MrBlooDeck]

I did Classics at university and yeah the point about bridging the distance between time via reading ancient works really stands. I focused a lot on social history and looking at dream oracle guides you can see what these people wanted out of life - healthy children, a promotion, getting married. But also stuff like slaves hoping they will be freed.

[@Madeline-Cano]

I cannot express how much I miss regular talk therapy. CBT is so highly regarded that we have kinda fallen off of traditional talk therapy. Sometimes people just need to talk and be led to conclusions that allow them to heal.

[@CharalamposKoundourakis]

I actively dislike cbt because I kept being redirected to it. Me saying that it didn't work one bit for me didn't stop the pressure to go for it. Finally, I'm just doing talk therapy and it's great.

[@JonathanMandrake]

I personally always had mixed feelings on stoic philosophy. Some parts are very reasonable, especially in regards to how you can deal with negative feelings if they aren't grounded in reality, or are otherwise unreasonable. But emotions, even overwhelming emotions, are part of our human nature. Grief and Love are one of the big pieces that define us. Grief even honours, in a way, the one we grieve for. It should overwhelm you that you lost someone close to you, yet at the same time you should be able to overcome that grieve so that you can be happy for them. Love should be so strong that you don't always act rational, because that person deserves that love. Getting emotional is an outlet for stress, frustrations and problems. It's a very symptomatic approach. It can be helpful if the symptoms are caused by the way you see the world, but if outer change is required, it'll only del with the symptoms while leaving the real problems festering underneath. It's part of the solution, but a very incomplete one

[@twistysunshine]

​@@thekatvitahmm I do think tho the point about the "break" is telling. I know many people who chided their children for reacting too strongly to an injury, only to later find out that child had a disability they weren't paying attention to, like a nervous system disorder, or EDS or even autism, where sometimes sensations hit very differently than they would for allisitic people. Perhaps if you're still screaming two months after the break, it isn't some internal process that you need to fix, but something is physically wrong. Obvs that isn't the intention of the philosophy, but I think there needs to be some discussion around ability/disability with a philosophy that is so about... Well for lack of a better phrase, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps.

[@humbledaoist]

@@twistysunshine Stoicism is not about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, it's (in part) about doing your best to examine, come to terms with/understand, and wield your emotions as best as possible. As someone who has a disability myself I have never thought of stoicism as being exclusionary or dismissive of people who have different lived experiences; I have always viewed it as being a broadly positive and uplifting school of thought. Your reponse to the example here is "examine the source of emotional pain and attempt to control it" being "well what about the disabled?" implies to me that you are broadly assuming that people with physical or mental disabilities are somehow less capable of having an inner dialogue with themselves, which I frankly find a bit weird. Also as clarification I am not a stoic, I have merely read much about it and know a stoic or two. I am a daoist. Much love.

[@twistysunshine]

@@humbledaoistthe person I was directly responding to said "... As innate as response as screaming after a broken leg" and onwards about how screaming immediately is okay and 2 months afterwards is not reasonable. My point is to mention that perhaps there are extenuating circumstances for why someone would be incapable of doing what for others would be reasonable, and that a one size fits all philosophy is not necessarily an inclusive one I'm also disabled for the record. Autistic as well, which is why I specifically brought up sensory overload. I'm not insinuating all disabled people can't process their emotions thru stoicism, im simply pointing out flaws in trying to decide what a "reasonable" timeline is for someone else. Its not that different than Abby pointing out there was a reason she was thinking negative thoughts, and it was useful to confront that reason Additionally... There are going to be some disabled people who are going to be unable or less capable of approaching their emotions in this manner. A disability includes a lack of ability. This is not a statement of worth. It is not a bad thing that some disabilities might make it difficult or impossible to process emotions the way stoicism requests. It simply is a thing that exists. No different than someone lacking the ability to walk. I'm not generalizing disabled people either, bc i picked out a specific scenario, and then specific disabilities I have actually heard people discuss having their pain/experiences dismissed with, and a situation I have experienced myself. I used "bootstraps" as a shorthand to discuss the same thing Abby does in the video, a shortcoming of stoicism is that it lacks a way to address problems that exist outside of the individuals own head

[@miguelconcha9711]

That is why the Stoics differentiate between what was propathe and pathe, being pathe the emotions that arose as a result of a bad judgment, which triggers suffering. The prepathe are those physiological mechanisms that come at the beginning of witnessing some event, the shudder, palpitations, mourning or even crying, for the stoics the prepathe are out of our control, therefore we must assent to them, when the stoics say no you have to let yourself be carried away by emotions refer to the pathe

[@nrikedesign]

Great video. Seriously, this is one of the better explainers out there. On the CBT part… we often talk about something called “low frustration tolerance “ in cbt/rebt. What often comes up is that the person often tolerates too much. Most people call this setting boundaries, but the conversation about the dangers of high frustration tolerance is what helps the person stick to the boundaries.

[@beardyben7848]

I loved that you brought Mark Fisher into this! Hostile and disadvantaged environments cannot be overcome by internal control(and sometimes relocation is key!). If you dodge violence on the way to a job where the company keeps fruit of your work, you don't have a decent place to go home to when you leave, you are dealing with illness you can't afford, and your social and/or romantic possibilities are trash because of it all, then you need external solutions, not inner peace. I see stoicism as a toolbox. It doesn't have all the tools, and it is not suitable for every circumstance, but they can be applied to great effect. Stoicism offers utility in dealing with private struggle, as does some forms of meditation. The challenges that are both public and private require more tools and a greater variety. The ability to deal with your feelings and stick to your purpose is part of human adulthood. If you have to deal with surges of emotion or unexpected emotions or if you're facing some sort of opposition is that is focused on making you upset, or just waits to capitalize on you being upset, then stoicism truly is very valuable.

[@cabin_quilt]

The bit about stoic physics was super interesting to me as someone who is perpetually in the process of adapting my christian upbringing and faith to my queer identity and perspective. When you talked about the universe being alive, intelligent, and happy, that resonated so strongly with me. I don't see God as a man in the sky but as a general presence of love and compassion and unity, something breathed in small pieces into all of us so that the universe can experience itself. When the Bible says we're made in God's image, it's not saying that God looks like a human, but that God looks like *humanity* in all of its wonderful, complex diversity. That's why community and mutual support are so important, because when people come together and support each other, that's us creating a small piece of God. For me, this presents a bit of a remedy for the problem of passivity, because us all being small parts of the same 'organism' means that we have a duty to protect, support, and fight for each others' rights and livelihoods as our own. I can learn to handle my emotions and cope with uncontrollable situations while still prioritizing the active pursuit of human equality. In fact it can sometimes help with political action, where rather than being paralyzed by despair, I can compartmentalize those feelings and free my mind to focus on finding & working toward a solution. Hearing ancient ideas that harmonize with mine is really affirming, even if they are entirely scientifically inaccurate haha. My silly half-baked thoughts on all of this aren't going to align with a lot of people's takes on stoicism since you usually don't associate compassion and empathy with that branch of philosophy, but this is what that part of the video made me think about anyways.

[@skinjin]

Also grew up in a strong Christian household and am also queer. When she mentioned the connections, it made my heart flutter. I believe the same as you. Not in a divine being, but a philosophy of expanding, connecting and evolving. We as humans see that as growth, love and living. We are one.

[@bobby2782]

That's really cool, but is it True?

[@danukil7703]

I did like the Bible Studies bit. I had previously read that Stoic ideas influenced early Christian theologians, but I didn't really understand that influence until I heard your explanation. Thank you, Abigail!

[@bentpen2805]

Same! I am a Christian and I thought the story was beautiful, and it brought me to tears

[@luci9710]

every six months or so i do a binge of your content and i always find something that i hadn’t noticed before that applies nearly directly to a line of inquiry that i have been prodding or directly related to something im writing about; its nice i enjoy it, and i think its a hallmark of well done and useful educational content

[@apgray]

There seems to be a lot of overlap between Stoicism and Buddhism. A follow-up comparison would be quite interesting. Buddhism has helped me a lot, and the passivity problem seems to arise there as well. The answer that works best for me there, is that seeing both the world and yourself more clearly, and being better able to tolerate/embrace your own uncomfortable emotional reactions - not cultivating them but not trying to avoid them either - actually puts you in a much BETTER position to see the suffering of others, see its political causes, and do something about it.

[@walkerh2745]

i think the most glaring issue with stoicism for me at (and i’m open to answers/challenges to this question): who determines what “reality” is? the underlying assumption is that there is some sort of “real world” we must apply ourselves and emotions to fully, but who, other than ourselves, determines “what” the “real word” is? even then, how do we determine what our own realities are? what component in our brains, what perception is determined to be reality, and what is determined to be fiction? is reality simply our physiological perception of the world? open to answers guys!

[@skeetsmcgrew3282]

For some things, scientific things, there's definitely a reality that you must accept or devolve into weird conspiracy theories. If you think vaccines cause autism, you are not living in reality and are likely a lost cause. But the reality "I deserve to be happy" seems ridiculously subjective. How can anyone ever extract an essence of truth to that? Thats absolutely its major flaw. The parts of reality we care about are subjective

[@courtneym.3647]

If you've gone down this rabbit hole, you may have looked into this already, but you might be interested in digging into constructivist psychology. As a...movement? Not the right word, but it'll work, it digs into that question and offers some interesting perspectives, particularly when combined with cognitivist examinations of the mechanisms behind perception. I don't have a solid answer to that question, but it's definitely worth looking into and examining. Ultimately my conclusions tend to be along the line that we need to accept some basis of a shared reality grounded in math and evidence, else we're never going to get anything done. (You can tell I've done a lot of work in STEM fields, lol). On the other hand, it also leads to a lot of fascinating questions about power and social relationships, so. One of those areas where psych, social science, and philosophy intertwine imo xD

[@DJDocsVideos]

@@skeetsmcgrew3282 also humans aren't built to be happy 24/7.

[@walkerh2745]

@@courtneym.3647 right! thank you for that insight, i’ll look into it. as someone who is pretty interested in just how different all of our perceptions can be (especially those perception about what is “real” and what isn’t), i’ve followed a lot of what Deleuze has said, and i’m currently working through Anti-Oedipus! on some level, nebulous or particular, our perceptions of the world are inherently subjective, shaped by our experiences, values, beliefs, and morals…i suppose i would like to know where that line is drawn. of course, much of humanity has somewhat of a shared perception of events (the sky is blue, grass is green), but this question becomes especially relevant when considering social issues. on the concept of gender, much of humanity has considered gender inherent and defined, but now we are seeing an uptick in perceptions of gender that violate the norm. this is just an example of how different perceptions shape social conditions as you have mentioned, but at what point have these aberrant perceptions of the world entered into the world of “fact” or “reality”? i suppose that’s my issue with Stoicism. i would consider myself rather stoic in any other part of the philosophy, but i frequently meet this barrier when considering what it means to be “virtuous”. thanks for chatting, i enjoyed reading your comment :)

[@walkerh2745]

*”much of humanity” isn’t accurate, there have been much different expressions of gender throughout history and location. i wrote that with current “Western” humanity in mind (as that is what i know most about)

[@gustavopiazzza]

Abigail! I discovered your channel about 2 weeks ago and I'm binge watching it. It's simply the best channel on KZbin I ever seen. Congratulations!

[@ArrowOnionbelly]

I don't think you'll even see this comment but I'm transgender, I started transition maybe 6 months at most before you, and your content consistently makes me cry hard and think hard about my existence. Your past handful of videos have been so intense but I usually get overwhelmed and have to pause them, I often don't have the spoons to go back. I'm finishing this one because a fellow trans girl, a friend of mine, urged me to give this video a chance. Your videos hit hard so often, and are filled with such relatable and insurmountable odds that you have endured, the intense quantities of bullshit that you have had to put up with in your life parallel my own. I think I'm only three-quarters of the way through your video and I'm crying like a baby. I love you, I am so proud of you, and I really appreciate the work that you do. I never really thought that stoicism would speak to me in the slightest, but you managed to present it in a way that is Digestible and relatable. Thank fuck for you. Never stop. You deserve to be making this content. 😭😍😭

[@iiiiitsmagreta1240]

Offer of hugs, from one trans girl to another? ❤🏳‍⚧🙂

[@ArrowOnionbelly]

@@iiiiitsmagreta1240 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️💗👁️👄👁️

[@Rtong98]

Stay strong ❤️❤️❤️

[@sarahpreston4558]

❤❤❤❤❤

[@Reichstaubenminister]

You can still clearly see his male skull structure, nothing will ever change that.

[@KrustyFrank27]

We just happened to be talking about the Gospels with my grandma today (fun Mother’s Day conversation), and she mentioned how much more philosophy came up in the Gospel of John than in the other three. John wrote them towards the end of his life, and therefore put in a lot more reflection towards the nature and meanings of the content therein than Matthew, Mark, or Luke did. Odd that it should also crop up here, but then again, Abi knows all and sees all, so I shouldn’t be TOO surprised.

[@tanasaky]

Listening to this made me realise that I am more of a stoic, than I thought. Every time someone brings it up, I kinda sneered at it. Now that I know better I even appreciate it to some extend. That said, while it does help me keep my head above water (or deal with it in my lows), the thing that makes me actually happy is action. Volunteering (or "direct action" if you prefer) is the thing that gives me hope, the idea that changing things is possible is actually inspiring and motivating.

[@ZosimaApiado-l3y]

happy for you my friend

[@jimwile9313]

A wonderful view of stoicism and incredibly strong humor! Thank you!