How to get More Damage from Throws - Melee

[@theelveage]

It took you literally 3:30 to even start talking about buffer throws. I'd recommend jumping right to the point because many times I'd usually just skip your entire video because of the slow pace.

[@moose1]

Always looking for rarely used tech/info like this. Learned something new today, thanks for the upload. I liked the tier list videos as well, I've felt they were pretty accurate as a marth main myself. Keep them coming, looking forward to it.

[@AndrewAJT]

Thanks man, and part 5 of the tier list is already in production :)

[@WaldoFindsYo]

A good tip to mention is to listen to them when you first get a grab, do they mash or no, when you get the second grab you can then either pummel or not depending on what they did the first time (I've never seen someone do mixups on mashing out of grabs so it's pretty good)

[@timothyoyster4685]

So long as you're close to frame perfect, no matter what percent they're at, they can't mash out. Grab, pummel as soon as you can (do this against an NPC to get the timing right, each time you grab just try to do it earlier and earlier until it doesn't work), then as you're pummeling hold the c stick down.

[@ussgordoncaptain]

I think you can be greedier with pummels than starting your second pummel at 50% at 50% it takes 156 frames to get out normally, and each button input reduces it by 6 frames. An opponent who is being pummeled has 40 frames to mash out, (it's actually less but 40 is a good approximation due to human input speeds) 2 of that is hitlag which only allows 1 input, giving them 39 mashable frames Assuming your opponent is a super fast masher, and mashes at one input every 3 frames, they would get 12 inputs within the timeframe, or reduction of 78 frames, 78+40=118, The % at which they suffer for 118 frames if they did no input is 27%. Let's call it 28% for safety. Still that's way earlier than 50%.

[@ColdFridge1]

You didn't mention that in addition to all the benefits buffering your dthrow gives you, it also allows sheik to get spacies out of cc% much quicker, which is HUGE for her

[@AndrewAJT]

+ColdFridge1 Yeah this is amazing for her. I did think of that and it's part of why I said its so useful for her, although i should have mentioned it

[@otak_]

Baxon, a top French Falco player, told me about this a while ago, so I guess he uses it too.

[@DareToShine]

Excellent video. Really useful stuff that isn't talked about very much!

[@okami473]

tight info for a ganon main thanks bro

[@LazyLee]

This video was fantastic.

[@CrypticNovas]

i heard about this about 4 months ago but forgot thanks for the video

[@imbanana]

Was looking for that! Very cool ;)

[@kamajje]

Nice video. Didn't know about this. You certainly did not need 12 minutes to explain this though.

[@AndrewAJT]

+kamajje It's a tech that people will use for thousands of hours for the rest of their melee careers. I felt the need to be thorough and not hold back any important information. Thanks for watching though

[@kamajje]

I mean, it's not even like that. You _were_ thorough, and you _did_ say everything important. And that is good. But all of that doesn't amount to twelve minutes. Like when you preface with, "I didn't discover this but not a lot of people know about it," that is not important--and you make _very_ simple explanations very long. Again: you gave the important gist of things, and even the small important details, which are important. So it is good you said all of that important stuff. But yes: it could have been made much shorter; I just felt like iterating that to you.

[@dirtydard4870]

+kamajje It's terrible that you were forced watch the WHOLE 12 minutes!!! I feel so bad for you that you couldn't get away and lost twelve minutes of your precious life.

[@kamajje]

Lol, seriously? I was not incriminating at all in my post. The fact that I gave the time to post (and explain my post later) should indicate that I actually wouldn't mind watching twelve minutes of a thing. This just didn't _need_ to be twelve minutes, and I wanted to be constructive. Please..

[@dirtydard4870]

incriminating????

[@DootNootem]

Really useful tech, thanks for uploading.

[@YashichiDSF]

can't you make use of the buffered DThrow on Samus's extender grab when the enemy's on the platform? without the pummel, of course

[@AndrewAJT]

+YashichiDSF Not sure, I haven't messed around with the extender much. Would be interesting to test

[@YashichiDSF]

I'm almost positive I saw a video about it but I can't find it. Might be interesting to note in the description if the video is ever found

[@AndrewAJT]

Lmk if you do find it

[@meyers323]

I do this a lot, it's just hard to realize that people are doing it. I've been told that you can't mash out of sheik's grap pummel throw at 0%.

[@RemiGemini]

This was very insightful thanks

[@rocketchris853]

So you're basically getting an extra pummel in since they can't mash out whenever you are buffering it?

[@AndrewAJT]

Correct, 1 extra pummel at every percent

[@rocketchris853]

+andrewajt62 Wow, that is awesome! Thanks for the great video :)

[@TheFreshershist]

great video but dude why is there 2 minutes of nothing at the start

[@AndrewAJT]

+Dekachin It's important to explain the basics, and it's crucial to warn people that this won't work on versions/modes where the C Stick is disabled.

[@TheFreshershist]

+andrewajt62 thanks for the quick response! I understand what you mean. I would still recommend you listen over the first 2 minutes, though, if you plan on making more informative videos. 2 minutes of "no content" could maybe get people to click away and close the video before you start actually explaining the topic. It could probably be shortened down to 30 seconds or less.

[@AndrewAJT]

+Dekachin I feel the need to explain any important info I have for a tech that people will use for years to come in their melee careers. I'll agree to disagree tho

[@1001011011010]

Nice run speed for dolphin, what do you have it running on?

[@SufferDYT]

+1OO1O11O11O1O you can run it on practically anything, melee is extremely easy to emulate.

[@1001011011010]

+Ricky Johnson You can run it, but I mean his frame rate is like 60 all the time instead of being less than that and it doesn't stop and load, stuff like that.

[@jimmymcsweeney]

Excellent man

[@AndrewAJT]

+Thejbomber 14 Thanks for watching! :)

[@RokOD]

Why do you say that it only works for down throw?

[@angusrules53]

+Rok XY That's the only throw you can buffer with the c-stick.

[@niceprofile-k6i]

you have the voice of an angel

[@zacharyallsworth8058]

Do you think this is possible in Project M?

[@schizanima]

+Wang Lung I'm pretty sure it's entirely fine, I believe that the mashing required is the same in both games.

[@devy2]

Ok but Kirby and Jigglypuff have slower pummels. What’s the frame data for their guaranteed pummels?

[@AndrewAJT]

It should be the exact same thing, just start holding C down once the pummel starts and there will be no way to escape the following d throw. The only way to escape this method is to mash out BEFORE the pummel hits, but I don’t know if it’s easier against those characters. If you go for less pummels overall with those characters to compensate for the extra time between them it shouldn’t be a problem

[@devy2]

Ok. Do you know the exact percents for each number of pummels for the characters that have 25 or 30 frame pummels? (Most of the cast is 24)

[@AndrewAJT]

Maybe just go for 1 at 0, 2 at 60, 3 at 120 ect if you want to be safe. I don’t think the average person will mash out especially since most people are focused on DI, although it’s probably possible

[@devy2]

Makes sense 👍

[@stayontrack]

Why doesn't it work but uphthrow or bthrow?

[@user-ii4gi4ts4y]

Because game logic

[@dalethefart3101]

Wouldn't this actually not work with kirby because you can mash out of down throw during the start up animation ;)

[@AndrewAJT]

+Dale TheFart You can only mash out of f throw and b throw, so this would work fine with Kirby's down throw.

[@dalethefart3101]

+andrewajt62 Yeah i remembered that after i posted lol just thought it would be funny after you specifically mentioned the yoshi hate lol P.S. Awesome video, Its honestly really weird that this technique isnt more widely known

[@AndrewAJT]

+Dale TheFart Thanks :)

[@dalethefart3101]

+andrewajt62 So why is it that it doesnt work with any other throw?

[@AndrewAJT]

You can do the other throws with the C stick (I don't, but I almost always d throw with C stick), but for some reason it doesn't buffer it when you hold them. Doesn't really make sense why they made it that way. Perhaps you could input the other throws frame perfectly after pummels for the same result (opponent being unable to mash out), but that would have to be tested.

[@Baz907]

You passed right by Ganon lmao His dthrow is so good how you could forget it

[@AndrewAJT]

I thought about that lol, was definitely an accident. This would be great for his chaingrabs and guaranteed throw combos

[@LolzSquid]

m2k uses this

[@user-ii4gi4ts4y]

Yea but that's m2k, he's not human lol

[@timothyoyster4685]

All mid to top level sheiks use this.

[@ruBenes94]

Great video! Thanks for sharing this, didnt get it to work with Samus though. Could you check just to be sure? :D Update: Nvm, I found out what I was doing wrong

[@ohfivohsixohone]

too bad I play spacies

[@Applesgosh]

!!!

[@aiadvice2023]

why is this so long. Could have been explained in 30 seconds