Will an antenna made from silver be better than copper?

[@nonames9310]

I have been googling about silver antennas since i found your channel. Now my suspicion is confirmed. Silver IS better. Thank You, Sir!

[@bgable7707]

Great stuff, thanks for the details and comparisons. Makes me realize how little things, materials, length, size, etc really make a different. It's about doing the math right!

[@evgenygridasov8455]

Angle connectors and various adapters have an insertion loss. Why not use a straight SMA like on the other 2 antennas?

[@dmitryplatonov]

Sleeve balun (choke really) works reasonably good only when difference between feed coax diameter and sleeve diameter is big, as in retail ones. In yours it does not choke current on outer side of coax and your feed line works as antenna, distorting radiation pattern (note that your feed line to silver antenna is much longer and includes two elbows).

[@ArthursHD]

That could explain why there are less access points but stronger.

[@highflowhighflow9896]

wonder if the silver one performs better because the 90 hook adapter you added ... could make some difference in the impedance. i always learned to use less adapters as possible , it keeps a mistery i think if silver really matter.

[@ElRealista7]

I thought the same.. anyways it got the best result and would be even better without the angle..

[@1markivor]

always enjoy your videos Andrew... made quite a few of your designs with great success. look forward to more of your creative designs from you. Mark

[@OG_Zlog]

wouldn't the skin effect make the silver useless, assuming its gold plated.

[@jameslamb4573]

Very interesting, I knew silver was a good conductor but I never thought it would make that much of a difference. I wonder if the silver coated coax sheath would be equally as effective as the ground plane?

[@armstrongskyview2810]

No need a GP if you make a half wave ant!

[@toxicore1190]

this is hacker channel were safety is our number one priority!

[@DennisFranssen]

wow it was 8 db difference between copper and silver. perhaps the silver one has better swr are you sure they are exact same length in all parts top to bottom ?

[@andrewmcneil]

Yes they are as spot on as you can get making them by hand. I have since done the test again several times and the silver one consistently comes out on top but the average is more like 3db.

[@DennisFranssen]

Now I'm really curious what that would do with a 9dBi stacked element dipole antenna, would that also provide average of 3db so if you compare it to like the Alfa www.alfa.com.tw/products_show.php?pc=46&ps=174 ? And does it mean that a copper made one gives actually less gain because of losses or does the silver one gives you the actually gain as calculated

[@vlupis1]

Single sleeved dipole will always be around 2 dbi practical gain, no matter what material, silver or copper!

[@salat]

Love your videos but I have my doubts about the measuring arrangement - errors that may have occurred: - differences in the sensibility of the adapters - influence of the three dipoles against each other (Yagi effect - elements may have formed some kind of beam) - the slight difference in placing against the tested network may have caused fading/qsb through reflections/interference patterns And I'm sure you know that resonance & SWR are two kind of things.. (half wave dipole -> feed point impedance of ~73Ω)

[@mrnovember777]

73 ohms? That's for a horizontal dipole at a specific height, not a vertical dipole.

[@salat]

I was talking about dipoles in general: ~73 Ohms is the feed point impedance in free space. At "low" height over ground (relative to wavelength) a vertical dipole for HF (3-30 Mhz) has usually an even higher impedance (70-100 Ohms) than a horizontal one. But at higher frequencies like VHF the influence of ground gets smaller and smaller and you can ignore polarization - That a Dipole has ~73 Ohms is also the reason coaxial cables for TV and radio antennas have an impedance of 75 Ohms. With WiFi we're talking about microwaves (UHF/SHF) - I think we can ignore things like ground/earth losses/reflections completely here. I'd love to hear what Andrew thinks about SWR on WiFi antennas - waving around with a hand in front of my Ghz antennas affects the SWR big time..

[@andrewmcneil]

I agree with you I have since measured the VSWR of each 1.87 1.81 1.78 7 to 9% reflected power Silver at 1.7 and copper at 1.81 I measured each one 5 times and took the average and to be honest in the real world outside of a test environment you would not see any difference between the 3. Could be worth doing a test with copper or silver against say iron or steel though

[@mrnovember777]

Doesn't this mean 75 ohm coax should be used instead of 50 ohms in your reference models? Do mfgrs design their adapters to match 75 ohms instead of 50 ohms?

[@salat]

When it comes to transmitters, 50 Ohms is the choosen compromise everyone matches to: www.belden.com/blog/broadcastav/50-Ohms-The-Forgotten-Impedance.cfm www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedias/why-fifty-ohms In short: 50 Ohms is the standard for transmitters (or TRXes like WiFi, etc.), 75 Ohms the standard for pure receivers (sat cable, terrestrial radio & TV, etc. ..)

[@ThirtytwoJ]

Hmm. Im tempted to try brass, heck gold plated electrical contacts. Have a few scraps of various materials around i can test out though.

[@voltlog]

wow, I didn't expect that much more performance from the silver antenna. Is it possible that there are very small changes in the manufacturing of these antennas that could cause the differences in performance?

[@andrewmcneil]

Hi Volt in my experience there can be huge differences and I am not just talking about the cheap sellers on ebay!

[@reedreamer9518]

What about applying some JAX Silver Plating Solution to a copper antenna - would that work?

[@trondyne3513]

I should think there would be just as likely a small difference having the active element straight vertical on one and less so on the other.

[@stevefrost8789]

also the thickness of the antenna will affect performance. if its thin theres resistance to rf. same theory as ac and dc electrical conductors. ohms law etc. so a very thin silver antenna may work as well as a thicker one

[@ampedupelectronics]

I wonder if the difference with the silver UUT is the way the antenna is mounted. It has more ground counterpoise than the others but it also carries the loss of a SMA right angle adapter. The test isn't very fair because they are not sharing the same exact same location. You should do the tests individually wth the exact same test stand if you want to prove it out. Silver made an appearance in some famous CB/HAM antenna designs for the loading coil material. I think the K40 antenna was the first design to utilize silver loading coils and patent a design with it.

[@shaneellasdaicastrestorati3675]

what would silver do for 5.8 fpv antenna do you think ? interesting video thanks

[@Bazrrrr]

One thing that may surpass silver by quite a bit is graphene and there have been 2.4ghz antennas created out of it which work quite well.

[@ArthursHD]

I found a paper 📜 on graphene antenna for mobile phone application. There was a graph 📈 with the same speed on both anntena materials. I'm curious how it compares further and further away from a cell tower.

[@hrxy1]

im new to this subject, couple of yrs ago i faffed around with tin cans andsavoury biscuits cardboard ally inside tubess i forgot the name of the biscuits. and wine bottle tin cans and sma connectors, which were neew to me, and washers and plstic spacers, etc etc etc, but did nt really have much joy, so gave up. now having found yr channel im thinking that they were all a waste of fiddling faffing about!!! am i correct in thinking that your method using short lenghts of co ax solid cable gives better rusults and is the way to go?

[@anthonywilliams7052]

I was reading that a thin atom layer of zinc can behave as a superconductor, since we are using RF with the skin effect making the outside more important, maybe try that, or a real superconductor if possible.

[@luisbeyrer950]

Could you please put up a materials list for the biquad 5.8ghz antenna

[@Migueldeservantes]

I'm not expecting to see a video but could you so a scan on 5.8GHz with a circular polar to see the performance?? I just want to compare it to a regular OEM... that is all, Thank you for your videos, I really appreciate them "I don't have the experience and the equipment" your tutorials are very useful.

[@andrewmcneil]

I am currently building something that will enable me to do just that with much better accuracy than I can at the moment.

[@Migueldeservantes]

It truly honors me when I see people that answer their comments, Thank you, I hope to see your new video about it..

[@alasdairmccarter764]

I wonder if the fact that copper and silver repel magnetism may have more influence than straight conductivity. I recall way back in tech school the differences in wave propagation at microwave frequencies being a product of skin effect, the path from transistor junction through to driven element ideally needing to be gold at aminimum depth of several (or many) microns to avoid compounding losses. Copper is the poor cousin, only good for sub Ghz. I did a test recently by heavily silver plating a 5.8ghz antenna, and got a full 3dbi improvement, every bit helps but bigger gains can still be made elsewhere, like feeders and receiver front end noise.

[@2012hansenracin]

I don’t watch much videos, ran across your video and was very impressed. I’m currently looking at a home tv outside antenna, and trying to do research, and find out better way to go, will say I will try to find a silver outside antenna first, of course oxidation comes into play. Let me ask you this , is it possible to plate something aluminum in silver and get the conductivity needed for an antenna? Or is it probably cheaper to go with a silver base?

[@FistieSplinters]

Does the aluminum tape work like copper tape?

[@drewhodge3820]

Do you get much more gain from a 1/2 wave dipole, than you get from a 1/4 wave? Also does the wire thickness of a dipole make much difference on the length of the wire?

[@andrewmcneil]

Hi Andrew this is a 1/2 wave dipole as you have 2 1/4 waves stacked up on top of each other. The 1/2 wave has around 2.5dbi and a full wave has around 5dbi.

[@anthonywilliams7052]

A radium antenna was said to TRIPPLE the range! see radio ionics radium antenna, try that!

[@MrProvinspoul]

If you hadn't had that crack on approach to the silver antenna, it might have been better, up in frequencies such a crack is not good.

[@talalzahid84]

Which type of silver is it? Is it the silver used to make jewelry?

[@andrewmcneil]

Yes 9.6% if I am remembering correctly

[@talalzahid84]

@@andrewmcneil so it means there was only 9.6% pure silver and rest is some other metal. How about 100% pure silver used in jewelry. Its cheap if the results are much better. Would love to see the antenna made of 100% pure silver.

[@andrewmcneil]

@@talalzahid84 To be honest I think you would need access to the university of Nottingham’s RF lab to measure that kind of difference even then it would be so small would it really matter.

[@talalzahid84]

@@andrewmcneil Got it. since I'm big fan of yours and you're my teacher and I love your videos. Please let me know that where to connect the ground wire of biquad antenna in a wifi router as replacement of one of the omni antenna since it doesn't have ground connection.

[@andrewmcneil]

@@talalzahid84 Use a mulitmeter on continuity to find the electrical ground and solder to that.

[@z3r0sz59]

que tal se fizesse um video de antena omni 15dbi ou mais

[@BillRoberts5]

I would make another one just like it. See if it's just as good.

[@-vermin-]

Andrew, do you have any interest in making wideband (VHF & UHF) antennas for SDR scanning?

[@brmelectric]

Andrew, enjoyed your video, look forward to your nxt.

[@MrSiciro]

Thank you for the great video. Is it possible for you to make a video on 433mhz directional antenna or a high gain 433mhz omni directional antenna?

[@andrewmcneil]

I am planning on extending the frequencies that I sow in the future as I now have the test equipment but it will take me out of my comfort zone as I don't have much experience with the lower frequencies.

[@MrSiciro]

Andrew I am sure you will do a fantastic job :-)

[@haylspa]

nice performance how ever it had a disadvantage to with multiple angle connectors you lose RF at power at corners sharp bends and connectors I would love to see it's performance without the bends and extra connectors :)

[@sokolum]

I am not sure if Silver I'd much better, I looked also at a other SSID channel: BTHUB4-39X2, then the performance of the silver is equal to the standard antenna, only the copper performance is really worse. I think more testing is be needed to confirm. where is the standard factory antenna coming from, it actually performs very good.

[@stevefrost8789]

the end antenna is running differently than the others due to being placed in a different position above the booster the radiation pattern will be different. the metal in the device is a ground. youve tried to keep the antennas in the same area which would seem to be a good idea. when measuring and comparing antennas, the antenna must be measured in the same position, [height included] as the other antennas. so one at a time. 2.4g is a pri----- of a frequency to measure. best to use the same booster as well. and if you can leave the room. you walking around is changing reflections and readings. hamies are your friends

[@ElRealista7]

I think the silver antenna was even the furthest away from his computer and gave the best results..

[@thirtythreeeyes8624]

@@ElRealista7 The computer being closer will make it perform worse as will having other network analyzers next to them hence the middle one jumping about as the ones next to cause interference I find it hard to believe this guys a teacher and doesn't do a proper scientific experiment where you try your best to eliminate all possible variables. There is also the propagation factor of silver vs. copper he shouldn't be building with the same dimensions when using different materials. In my experience with making rc tx and rx antenna the driven element should be about 29mm that has given me the best range every time but, don't tell Andrew that he'll swear up and down I'm wrong haha.

[@Geoffh777]

I would look somewhere other than higher conductivity for the extra gain of the silver antenna. How much current is the antenna transferring to the wi-fi receiver? At a possible signal current of a few nanoamps (likely a gross overestimation) and a conductivity difference of a few milliohms between the copper and silver antennas, Ohm's law tells us the signal voltage improvement will be a few picoVolts. The difference has to be in some other property of the metals or a difference in the construction or orientation of the two antennas.

[@markward4176]

where do you buy the powerful alfa cards from? and what antenna from your store do you recommend for picking up bt wifi in a village?

[@Maisonier]

what book do you recommend for the year 2018?

[@freefilms10000]

if these aerials were exactly the same....one is side mounted...and in turn screwed into the same Alfa, doubt there would be any difference.

[@applevalleyjoe]

Andrew, I would like to buy one each of your 3 and 4 lobe antennas. What would you charge for these? I am especially interested in a 2.4 and 5.8. Thank you.

[@patrickwaterman4959]

if u make a cantenna out of this i'll buy 1 from ur shop.

[@richardpowley2569]

An interesting lecture Andrew but the advantage of using silver over copper for 2.4 Ghz is about the same in real life as leaving the spare wheel at home to increase the acceleration of your car. If it is possible, I suggest repeating your experiment with a modem placed at one end of the garden and the antennas at the other so the testsesults are done with nothing in the way. That way the comparisons would be more acurate. BEst wishes, Richard

[@hrxy1]

remembered pringles cardboard tube

[@81pieda]

Sterling silver = 92.5% Ag, not 94% Ag. You're welcome ;)

[@armstrongskyview2810]

Fantastic video, may I ask if your still a teacher

[@andrewmcneil]

2 days a week

[@armstrongskyview2810]

@andrewmcneil That's awesome. May I ask what else keeps you busy, do you have a second career, will you be making new videos, do you still enjoy building ants, why did you stop putting out KZbin videos when yours are by far the best from a knowledge and building standpoint. Sorry for all the questions but I find your videos as an ex-Brit army Rad-op very fascinating and I'm now looking to develop a free and open mesh network using Open WRT and B.A.T.M.A.N protocol with same antennas diy for range, ant array and making the most out of the limited legal transmission power allowed to achieve goals. The biggest hurdle at the moment is non line of sight here in Singapore. My goal is to start with a small test mesh network built on open wrt and batman and be able to relay Internet and lan from my home HDB (like council fat in UK but nicer) and transmit the Internet about half a km for proof of concept. Then use an app called Jami which works offline (no Internet access) so it's like WhatsApp and still be able to make calls, both voice and video and send pictures and docs without any typical isp. Cool idea and worth spending a lifetime on lol

[@andrewmcneil]

@@armstrongskyview2810 I will be uploading new videos very soon (next week)! I had a loss in the family and me and mrs antenna took some time off and I have been traveling.

[@kevinkersten5599]

So how would a mercury antenna work? While I don't believe everything I read on the internet, there are some reports out of Russia, that during the cold war people used mercury Antenna's to receive Western TV signals. There was apparently a run on thermometers in the town and these worked so good they caused interference to which resulted in government agents showing up at the door. (Like I said, I don't know that I believe everything said.) A mercury antenna could be quickly changed in both shape and size as well.

[@andrewmcneil]

Mercury is a poor conductor so I don;t think you would get much in the way of performance

[@Thadeuslekart]

@@andrewmcneil How about nanocoating?

[@brucesandroid7511]

First of thanks for interesting videos, Found this: Joule heating: P=I2R Any energy you use to make heat is energy you aren't using to make electromagnetic waves. So first, you should consider the resistivity (ρ ) of various metals. A lower resistivity means you will need less of a metal to reduce the resistance to an acceptable target. Here's a selection, ordered from lowest to highest resistivity in nano-ohm-meters (nΩm), of some metals you might consider using in an antenna: Silver: 15.9 Copper: 16.8 Gold: 24.4 Aluminium: 26.2 Zinc: 59.0 Nickel: 69.9 Iron: 100 Tin: 109ham.stackexchange.com/questions/1388/effect-of-different-metals-for-antenna-elements

[@brucesandroid7511]

Its popular with goldplated cabels but silver is the winner.:)

[@hawkmoe2789]

impressive

[@ElRealista7]

Love silver

[@annaoaulinovna]

its true silver is a better antenna over 70mhz to ghz band