Android Netrunner Review - with Tom Vasel

[@tineye5100]

Still one of the best designed games I’ve ever played. So glad the community has kept it alive with new releases.

[@patcraig3631]

I really like the terminology in this game. It adds to the theme. Although I do agree that it makes it a bit harder to learn.

[@FrankEnanoza]

Just bought NetRunner. Really looking forward to playing this. Tom, I have been watching several of your videos, as well as several videos from Dice Tower, and you have the coolest (secondary?) job: playing games and posting KZbin videos about it. Fun video and keep them coming!

[@otterbot]

Thoughtful and really enjoyable review, Tom! I could feel---and totally share---your internal conflicts and predispositions against this game... at the same time that I also recognize what a top notch production and execution this is from top to bottom. Ultimately, I walked away because I could feel all the focus and commitment it would take to play well. Thanks for filling me with regret again! Arrragh!

[@MathieuVIII]

Thank you Tom. I tried a couple times the old edition of Netrunner and really liked it although it was complicated for my taste. I am happy to see it redone. The FFG video couldn't be more clear and your opinion and commentary were useful just as much.

[@crimson49er]

the terminology definitely made it harder to learn out of the gates, but it truly adds to the theme & immersion into the Android universe. I'm glad you liked it, hopefully your review will bring more people to the game. This is the game that got me back into "boardgaming" after 10 yrs of being out of the hobby.

[@wichhouse]

It's worth noting that the terminology isn't just for immersion. It helps keep the game clean of confusion, especially when the game is as asymmetrical as it is. Imagine if both players just had Discard piles and Hands instead of the corp having Archives and HQ, and the runner having Heap and Grip, and a card read, "Add 1 card from the discard pile to the player's hand." This means a very different thing than the actual Archived Memories HB card that reads, "Add 1 card from Archives to HQ." Now that is crystal clear.

[@4Robato]

But that can be easily clarified with: "Add 1 card from the corp discard pile to its owner's hand."

[@wichhouse]

@@4Robato Yes, but it's wordier, and more easily missed by editing/production team. I mean, these kinds of mistakes make it into games all the time.

[@meathir4921]

@@wichhouse Other card games get by fine; it really just built a barrier to entry that solved a problem that no one really suffered from in the first place. Errata get released for card games all the time.

[@wichhouse]

@@meathir4921 Different strokes. I remember tearing my hair out over complex rules with other card games and certain combos or interactions, some of it due to poor wording on cards. A game that focuses on good wording from the start gets a thumbs up from me.

[@wichhouse]

@@meathir4921 There is also another small immersion effect when the game can address you directly. For instance, many agenda cards begin with, "When you score..." which the terminology makes so direct and understandable who it benefits, since the Runner doesn't score agendas, they steal them.

[@dabearz27]

I really like the style of this review. Speaking as an avid Dice Tower viewer, a lot of times I'll just skip to the end of the review to see your thoughts. Whether it's because I want to see if watching the overview portion of the video is worth my time, or because I already know how the game plays and I just want to hear your thoughts. Nice job!

[@T.H.E.O.2024]

i can relate to this review,.. I AM a miniatures gamer currently playing x-wing,... i was hanging around at my local game tore, and saw them playing netrunner. i have never liked the idea of playing card games, but they were all really into their games so i watched for an hour from table to table as they played,.. to shorten this long story ,.. before leaving that day i had placed an order for the WHOLE set,with all expansions. what sold me on spending well over 300 dollars for a full set,.. simply put,.. the asymmetrical game play and theme, coupled with knowing that i could compete with any player on a level field after the initial investment,. without the situation that had kept me away from card based games for so long,. the buy and buy and buy packs to get random cards and rare cards that i flat refused to do. p.s. though they use custom names for things like the discard pile ect,.. i found that it added immersion into the game by using the theme at every turn of production and game play. you stop thinking of it as playing cards with people,.. but instead playing people in a game world that just happens to be using cards as a mechanic to do so.

[@Loomis2459]

A good way to remember terminology for the corp is to give it related terms/letters. HQ (Hand) and R&D (Deck). H and D are quick and simple ways to remember them easily. Grip relates to an action you'd do with your hand. Heap you can relate to a trash heap (discard pile). Small mnemonics like that make it easier.

[@GMCiaramella]

Good video Tom! I went and watched the how to play video as well... you are right, the terminology is kind of complicated, but it is very thematic. I have a bit of history with cyberpunk games and computer science, and thus was able to appreciate some of the terms, but other players will be just that much more confused. Despite that, I think there is a really good chance that Cool Stuff is going to be making a sale based on your video, happy birthday to me! :)

[@GamingTrent]

If you're really into Netrunner and you're going to be at Gencon, it is REALLY going to be worth your time to stop by the Fantasy Flight area (not in the exhibition hall, but where they do demos and tournaments) on Friday afternoon and Saturday morning. They're having the U.S. Championships for Netrunner there - it's spread over two days and has 180 people already signed up. Well worth strolling through just to see the diversity of players and ideas.

[@paulhogarth6765]

You need the different terminology. I know it's a barrier to entry ... but the terminology adds to the fun. It's cyberpunk, it should feel cyberpunk. I introduced this game to a friend of mine and he now likes cyberpunk. The game oozes style ... just ... meh, just wouldn't be cyberpunk if Corp and Runner hands were called just that, or the stack and R&D was just caled 'Draw pile', the Heap or Archives just called the Discard.

[@gryphon202]

+Paul Hogarth If terminology is a barrier to entry in playing Android: Netrunner, then the game itself isn't for you. I personally enjoy it immensely, but I played R. Talsorian's Cyberpunk: 2020 game for years before playing the original Netrunner. That colored my opinions, I'm sure. Back in the day, if you knew who Rache Bartmoss was, you almost certainly would have *LOVED* Richard Garfield's Cyberpunk: 2020 homage.

[@dsyphoria]

Knew you wouldn't be able to resist it once you'd got a few games in! The original got me into gaming. I loved that you could play it straight out of the box. Great review, Tom, and you made me smile with the mention of the Decipher Star Wars CCG. I miss that game.

[@Arbie812]

One move that I still feel was a misstep in Netrunner's distribution was not having 3 of each card in the core set. It's bad enough that there are doubles, but the singles pretty much require you to buy a second core set, ending up with piles of duplicates. I'm not saying they should've necessarily put 3x of each card in the core set, but some kind of companion booster that includes one of each double and 2 of each single as a complement to the core would have been a great move, I think.

[@MyuFoxable]

The naming and terms seem intuitive for me and are actually more exciting for me. However I do have a computer background more than a card game/board game background. Maybe the game is more popular now because when the game first came out it was too early for its time.

[@StefanoPadovani]

You look genuinely excited, precisely how I felt after playing my first match! Gotta say, I played lots of CCGs and some other LCGs, but this one... makes every other card game feel, I don't know, less engaging maybe.

[@kellerjohnson2261]

Is there a limit of the number of cards you can have in your deck? and is there a limit on the number of cards that you can have in your hand?

[@sergiudima]

One thing Tom forgot to mention is the fact that a turn (or round) doesn't have predefined phases, like in most of the games, but let's you choose your actions similar to Descent, where you have a list to pick from. This aspect of the game makes every turn feel different. This being said, the gameplay is very wide open and doesn't constrain you in such way where, let's say, now you are in combat phase and it's either yes I am gonna do it or not.

[@simongunkel7457]

I think most of the terminology sticks after a game or two. One reason for it apart from immersion is that it makes card text shorter: "When you make a successful run on a central server" is so much shorter than "When you make a successful run on the corporations discard pile, hand or drawing pile". There´s no need for a complicated glossary in general and it makes cards far easier to read once you got the game terms in your head.

[@glennfk]

I liked the video! I felt about Sentinels of the Multiverse the way this game made you feel! The nice thing about the game is that you can cut down a lot of size because the box is totally unneeded. You didn't mention how some cards are only 1x or 2x copies, not the full 3x players may want to use (and thus, can't).

[@phillosmaster]

Tom took his first hit. There is lots of depth to this game. For many it's the only card battle game they play. It's a bit more complex than magic, but I feel like it's a more rewarding experience than magic. The FFG video definitely will help people who are not patient enough to finish the rulebook. As rulebooks go this one is not bad. Try reading the Android board game rulebook. Great game. Same great setting as this card game, but man is that game's rules a long drink of water.

[@chrisnutt2135]

Needing 2 or 3 of every LCG core set has been a staple of the LCG pay wall since the very first LCG ever released. 2 Core sets gives you plenty options and the opportunity for multiple decks. You don't need 3 of the unique cards, you'll do easily enough with only 2 of those in a deck.

[@RayMGreenley]

Nice review! It is a fun game. One thing for those who can't find opponents: this game actually works pretty well to play via video chat (eg Skype). There's not a lot of cross-table play, and so long as you can set up your camera to show your play area it's a good experience.

[@patcraig3631]

ITS TIME TO DO A REVIEW OF THE EXPANSIONS

[@colinsavage8866]

i love you

[@patcraig3631]

Dave Billingsly ...

[@DavidsBoardShorts]

Yay been waiting for this!! I think your story on this game is identical to mine. Nice video.

[@RiddleFlowOn]

"Whew!" I really wanted you to like this one. I am a new player too, and had skipped over the original for the same reasons you mentioned, and because the theme was kinda strange. But now we can see Garfield was ahead of his time, as Netrunner's moment has come, thanks also to a fantastic graphical overhaul and theme injection (factions) by Fantasy Flight. I in love with this game like I was when I first discovered Magic some 20 years ago, and thanks to the LCG model, I can afford it!

[@Wolfie64]

I had assumed from the first LCG I Invested in that the reason there was not duplicates of every card was intended as a pre-made tournament limited list.

[@brianreid8728]

Kudos to you, Tom. I could tell you wanted to hate it but you kept an open mind, that's very impressive.

[@yluras]

Hi, and greetings from Spain. I've been playing this game for a while with my girl, and I can't agree with you more. I'm a veteran Magic player, as well as other board games, and you can feel the effort and fondness poured into it. Also, you can get a lot from the game without any expansiona, juat out of the box. And I mean, A LOT.

[@facepalm991]

About time to make a new video about Null Signal Games' success in reviving Netrunner!

[@DeepCDiva]

Tom reviewed Infiltration, but i don't think he reviewed Android. He had it on his shelf, at least, so i wanted to hear his opinion about it...

[@phillosmaster]

If you are thinking of getting into this game then watch the rules video from FFG. Then sit down and play BOTH sides (runner/corp then corp/runner) with a friend. Don't pass judgement until you've played a couple times. Once both players know what they are doing the game really opens up.

[@Sandrockcstm]

My only complaint about Netrunner (besides the terminology) is I can't get anyone to play it with me. Very difficult game to break into.

[@chrisnutt2135]

The original Netrunner is based off of the old Cyberpunk 2020 pen and paper RPG universe. The term Netrunner comes from a class from that RPG. Hence the similarities with Shadowrun.

[@apanapane]

I too found the flavourful terminology. It would have been so much easier to get into if the deck was called HQ, Stack or Deck for both players. Now it just gets complicated for no real reason. I also found the text on the cards difficult to read since the print was too small. But other than that, I agree that it was an enjoyable game.

[@BlimpMcGee]

How come this video isn't on the BGG videos list for this game?

[@19Prometheus89]

Yeah, the rules can be a little hard to get used to. But after you watch the FFG video, and have played a few games having the rulebook close by, it becomes second nature. And is a very enjoyable game.

[@godofzombi]

which game would you say is easiest to learn/get into? Android Netrunner or the Star wars LCG?

[@vincentthekeeper2163]

just got into this game, very good game. i wanted to see Toms review glad he did one. very lingo heavy to the point that its confusing to demo to new players, but once you get it, its alot of fun.

[@vincentthekeeper2163]

oh and CCG or LCG experience is a HUGE plus to learning.

[@Demasx]

Congrats on giving the game a fair shake! The terminology not only adds to the theme but it makes for clear unambiguous directions on cards with limited space... HQ, R&D, heap, stack, and grip are all 5 characters or less. Even the 8 letter "archives" is shorter than "corp's trash" or "corp's discard".

[@Arbie812]

Yep, I bought two core sets. What I mind is paying for all those duplicates. Managed to find a home for my spare doubles with a friend, and double sleeving the ID cards, but there's nothing to do with all the triples except coaster duty.

[@t1s2m3a4]

Your review pushed me over the tipping point when I said I wouldn't get into anymore LCGs. Curious to know if you're still playing.

[@Kajotex]

He isn't. He once said in a live-QnA i think he still thinks the game is good, but he can't keep up with a LCG with all the work he has to do.

[@EchoMateria]

Component drop of sleeveless cards... My heart!

[@glennfk]

Been wondering what you'd think of this.

[@mattb4rd]

Atkins bars 5:41 - love those things!

[@kirbymaster5]

This video gets posted the day I get the game. Interesting.

[@ikesteroma]

Can Netrunner be played with more than two players?

[@Kaoss134]

I don't think so since there are only 2 sides. Maybe you could make your own 2v2 variant though.

[@gryphon202]

+Ike Evans One of the few (and in my opinion very minor) flaws of Netrunner is that it has always been a two-player game, exclusively so.

[@saorlab]

So are you still playing it? Almost a year.

[@AlextheBant]

Yes they can win by turn three with the SEA source SE combo, posted bounty SE combo or when the runner is stupid enough to run with less tnan 3 cards in hand, continues a run after hitting a katana, hits 2 snares in a makers eye run, or is stupid enough to leave tags on them. I was just expecting they didn't use those combo's since they were fairly new and i was expecting they were smart enough to see the issue of walking into a katana with too few cards.

[@johnanderson4848]

Great review :)

[@Crackpot25]

I hoped you'd come around to the game Tom. :D

[@shy_gamer]

Wow, thank you, that helps me a lot!

[@MassEffectFan113]

Tom are you on Atkins? I see the bars on the table. :)

[@Rb-hm5mliu]

MassEffectFan113 what is Atkins ?

[@hardbathsalts3143]

@@Rb-hm5mliu Dr Atkins is a man who knows nothing about nutrition but sells diet books, plans, etc.

[@JohnnyLeyenda]

I don't see it happenning anytime soon but I hope FFG (or Asmodee or whoever owns the whole thing) considers getting the rights again from WotC to keep releasing content. It's a bit sad to see still starter sets around with barely no expansions available to expand the content for newer players.

[@fluter27]

Netrunner is back through Null Signal Games!

[@jonofpdx]

Star Wars is easier to get into as it is more similar to other games on the market (though it is still pretty unique). Android is harder to get into, but I think it's more rewarding due to the drastic differences in play between the corp and the runner.

[@huntergonfreecs]

Line of the year: "Fantasy Flight, stop stealing my money!" Truer words never spoken. What I really want now is for you to review the other two Android games: Infiltration (which I found decent) and Android the board game (which I thought had a FANTASTIC theme and HORRIBLY CLUNKY design).

[@davidbbeattie]

Would recommend this game to someone who is not particularly taken with MTG? I do enjoy Dominion, Acension or Warhammer Invasion, but this ... I'm not sure.

[@gryphon202]

+David Beattie Worth mentioning, the original incarnation of "Netrunner" released in 1996 was released as part of the "Deckmaster" series, designed by Richard Garfield of M:TG fame. Make of that what you will.

[@davidbbeattie]

+gryphon202 Thanks. Yeah I think I'll give it a miss. Like the theme though.

[@gryphon202]

If you like the theme, it might be worth a look. One nice thing about it is that there is everything you need to play with two players in the core set. If you don't feel like going out and sinking the money into it, finding someone else with at least the core set would give you a good idea of the flavor of the game.

[@mmik9683]

I know this comment is a year old, but it's very different from magic. It's not the same game at all. After getting into this game, I couldn't go back to mtg.

[@exiledsonofhawaii3934]

Played a lot of tcgs in my day. Although netrunner isn't my favorite I'd say it is easily the most thematic. Love the game, but barrier to entry is high. If you can find a regular partner it is definitely worth the plunge.

[@josiahburkhardsmeier3119]

"Fantasy Flight, stop stealing my money!" LOL, I feel the same way. The LCG's really get you. Thankfully I only had the LoTR LCG, but now I think I need to get Netrunner and Star Wars, lol.

[@oelarnes]

re: magic, the criticism that "you have to spend a lot of money to do (whatever)" doesn't make sense to me. Just like any other game in the word, you can spend $30 dollars, build (or buy premade) an out-of-box balanced experience that two or more people can sit down and play (and its fun!). Anything beyond that, customizability, competitive play, global community, collectibility, etc, is a pure-upside feature, not a requirement.

[@Gustave154]

Best LCG,TCG and CCG out there. FFG have outdone themselves

[@neochivalry]

05:37 "...it just looked really dorky" Really? Um, I don't know about throwing the word "dorky" around when it comes to card/board games. Maybe it is better to say the original art style and theme wasn't to your taste? Otherwise one might say you're throwing stones in a glass house. I appreciate, as has been said by others, that you overcame your prejudices to the game and gave it a good honest try. Definitely could use more open-minded players, if not reviewers, who approached things this way.

[@crimson49er]

i can understand that & FFG could have done a better job with the manual as well. Overall though, this, in my opinion, is a fantastic game & it is well worth the time to learn.

[@BlindCap]

"The old art was just really dorky." Reveals Inside Job. "Look how much better it is now!" No Tom. No. That was not a good example.

[@TeChNoWC7]

Peter Fish what and the art with some rando dudes standing there looking at you is better?

[@MicroRPG]

"Fantasy Flight stop stealing my money!" Yes yes, we know how you feel.

[@theverbalrelease]

I really don't like CCGs. That's one of the things that helped the latest version of Wizard's Gamma World RPG to not do well was they tried to stick a CCG aspect in it. But I'm perfectly fine with card games which you can buy complete expansions to.

[@neochivalry]

11:42 "Fantasy Flight stop stealing my money!" Myself whenever I look at my board game collection before making my next board game purchase: only to realize that the next cool game I am hyped to by next is...Fantasy Flight. I mean, I buy other board games and love games by other companies too; but over the years I've snapped up a small collection of FF games within my larger collection of board games. ^_^;

[@GamersGrind]

Had to google TCGs. I always see CCGs but definitely not dead but older gamers that turned to board games seem burned out on them or at least burned out on the money sucking aspect of them. Living Card games (Bloody cheesy name) helps fix that issue and the whole the person that spent $500 to build a deck wins things.

[@Talamare]

11:19 WE GOT ANOTHER ONE!

[@Medsas]

FINALLY!!!

[@bung1975]

Time to get some new friends!

[@qzxerty]

Glad you liked it. It is a superb game though unlike you I really enjoyed the illustration and flavour of the original.

[@Telmdal]

They are very different. Really only similarity is that they are card based.

[@Hellstrike]

Happy to hear you've fallen in love like the rest of us. It truly is a game on another level and with monthly releases it will keep many ensnared for a long time and scare plenty of others away,

[@AlextheBant]

The corporation can't possibly win after 3 turns. I'm pretty sure your friend didn't explain well. Netrunner is pretty skill intensive, the skill is so much more important than in games like magic. Real blowouts are quite rare in this game.

[@Carlordau]

I tried playing this game with my friend once. I'm not sure if he explained the rules correctly for me, but I got smashed after three turns as the runner, twice. Lost interest after that. I might have to get him to bust it out again upon viewing FFG video; though I shouldn't have to watch a 20 minute video to understand how a game plays.

[@hardbathsalts3143]

It has a forty page rule book? How quickly you want to learn a game? Maybe play Sorry or Trouble.

[@camillelambert5474]

This guy is infuriately endearing.

[@Rhiga]

I agree

[@dabearz27]

Your reaction to whether to keep Netrunner or not reminds me a lot of how I feel about the Lord of the Rings LCG, lol.

[@kurirkopi]

hmmm first card i see when they fallin is Magnum Opus.

[@Bodyknock]

Sorry, to me theme and immersion are secondary to gameplay. If complicated terminology is getting in the way of having fun playing the game then it should be simplified. I have no idea how good or bad the rest of the game is, but the idea of needing a complicated glossary chart open as you play is kind of a turn off.

[@CharlesEtheridgeNunn]

Yeah, Fantasy Flight won't be happy until they have all of the money. Also shouty shouts for Overpower!

[@ababababaababbba]

Nah the og art was way more wiggity

[@willhelm94]

They should make a Mr Robot edition of this game for fans of the show, i know my family & friends would appreciate it

[@SamuraiHonor]

all i could think was... this looks andsounds a lot like shadowrun O.o

[@ninjaeditmusic]

Calling it the "Deck" or the "Discard pile" Breaks the fourth wall, and consequently suspension of disbelief.

[@kaijudochop5507]

Not sure how "dead" describes TCGs...

[@huntergonfreecs]

Well, that eliminates every game on my shelf except UNO.

[@yluras]

Hi,

[@rudorot65]

I tried to teach my father the original game it's too hard to explain

[@Skurvy2k]

Tom, I think you misspoke when you said CCG's are a dead genre. By all measurements Magic the gathering has never been more popular. I think what you were trying to say is that you personally don't like to play CCG's because of the cost involved.

[@jonofpdx]

Not meaning to be a dick, but I don't think I agree w/ that. Certainly ALL games shouldn't have that level of complexity, but gaming would be pretty boring if we couldn't have these different levels of depth in games.

[@morrisballenger9146]

3:10

[@GamersGrind]

Are you saying for someone to call something dorky is like a geek calling the pot a nerd?

[@JaKamps]

First I was like you have 300 games?!.. Then I was like you got rid of 1,200 games!!!

[@dabearz27]

Frankly if he didn't give this an open minded review, he'd probably get tons of hate from all the Netrunner fans.

[@jacobgarr]

He said "To me thats kind of a dead genre" ----EMPHASIS ON TO ME..... LIsten more bro

[@thedicetower]

Heh. Perhaps you're not familiar with the huge percentage of the population that is NOT familiar? Everyone I've talked to agrees about the confusing terminology.

[@Raphaelus13]

IwantitIwantitIwantitIwantit